Toad in the Hole?? One confused SR (Southern Rodmaker). Rick C. TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Float cases on the list? you might as well ask Tim & Jilly Watson wrote: What does everyoneuse to get the enameloff the culms.I'mmaking some float cases from3-4" stock andwould like someadvice.ThanksTim. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Nov 11 10:31:55 1999 1999 08:31:52 PST Subject: Re: Re: Enamel YOU'AL ARE GOING TO INTERUPT MY NITELY PISCATORIALDREAMS WITH NIGHTMARES --- k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote:Do you eat it while running from a Goyonder or shareit with a Mugwump or a Mylarmore bird? Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com hexagon@odyssee.net wrote: Bill,Bubble and Squeak is the food of gods, you have totaste it to appreciateit.WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Ok. So, since we're wasting bandwidth anyhow, what is"bubble and squeak"? cheers,Bill ----- Original Message ----- From:title="watson@cape-consult.co.uk">Tim& Jilly Watson title="RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu">rod'akers Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 19991:51 PM Subject: Re: EnamelOK,Sorry aboout this.Toad in the hole is batter and sausages andSpotted Dick is a pudding. Foranyone who is interested I've attached therecipes.Apologies to those not interested in the bandwidth----- Original Message -----From: timothy troester consult.co.uk>;rod 'akers Sent: 10 November 1999 19:24Subject: Re: Enamel i'm sorry but i'm still confused...and you'renotgoing to get to know me any better until i knowwhat aspotted dick and toad in the hole is. timothy --- Tim & Jilly Watson consult.co.uk>wrote:Dear oh Dear!What a sad lot - not only don't you know whatafloat case is but SpottedDick and Toad in the Hole!! CulinarySacrilige.A float case is a length of culm, normallyabout3-4" in diameter. The culmis cut just below the node so that the tubehas abase, and then cut about9 - 12" above the node. A nice hardwoodstopper ismade for the open endand the whole thing is varnished to within athou ofperfection. Into thistube are placed floats, as in fishing floats.They look great.Now as to Spotted Dick..........well I'm notsure Inow y'all well enoughyet!T----- Original Message --- --From: Rick C. Cc: consult.co.uk>;Rodmakers Sent: 10 November 1999 02:48Subject: Re: Enamel Exactly Terry!! I'll be the one to fess uphere.What in tarnation isa float case?? As far as that goes, what orwhois Spotted Dick andToad in the Hole?? One confused SR (Southern Rodmaker). Rick C. TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Float cases on the list? you might aswell ask Tim & Jilly Watson wrote: What does everyoneuse to get the enameloff the culms.I'mmaking some float cases from3-4" stock andwould like someadvice.ThanksTim. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at HREF="http://auctions.yahoo.com">http://auctions.yahoo.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Thu Nov 11 10:40:18 1999 1999 11:40:18 -0500 Subject: Re: First rod Well, my first went ok, not great but ok, until I had to wrap the guides. Ithink Iwrapped the pole six or eight times before I got it looking passable andthen it lookedlike the wraps on one of these over epoxied graphite rods. My worstdiassapointment wasthe sixth. It was for my grandson. It finished out nicely but when I putthe line onit, the line flipped around the pole and caught between the tiptop and thefirst guide.I didn't catch it until I had cranked the reel three or four times; justenough to snapthe tip! Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.comEESweet@aol.com wrote:Hi Everyone,So I'm taking a break from wrapping the guides on my first cane rod andjust thought I'd ask; how many of you finished your first rod and thought "This didn't turn out quite as well as I'd hoped..."? I remember reading on the list a while back where someone said they were working on their secondrod, the first one being hidden away in the attic, so I know I'm not alone. Anyone out there have any first rod horror stories they'd like to share so I don't feel like a completely inept tool user? Help!! Ashamed and embarassed in Oakland, Eric Sweet from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Nov 11 12:03:56 1999 Subject: RE: Fw: company logo copyrights Thank you for sharing the term Alabama Dick Dance. Barry Kling -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Fw: company logo copyrights True, as far as it goes, but the real reason you need to register yourmark is this: If a large corporation wants to use the same mark and youhaven't registered it, their lawyers will do the Alabama Dick Dance allover your common law copyright or trademark, relying on the fact thatyou can't outspend them in court. Registration discourages this oldAmerican tradition. Sad, but true.Jack Dale Ed Riddle wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Jerry Madigan Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 10:55 AMSubject: Re: company logo copyrights Generally, just marking something as copyrighted makesit copyrighed immediately. Subsequent registratonjust helps in lawsuits defending it and can be doneanytime. Not a lawyer, but have asked one before. --- Ed Riddle wrote:Find yourself a local Patent Attorney and plyhim/her with a few "SingleMalts" :-)Ed-----Original Message-----From: ANDREW J INGRAM Cc: TragicH23@juno.com Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 1:34 AMSubject: company logo copyrights anyone out there know how to go about getting acompany copyright ontheir logo? i keep running into roadblocks. ai ===== __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from KJoh0001@aol.com Thu Nov 11 13:31:09 1999 Subject: Fwd: from a Marine virtualflybox@mlists.net,ONTHEFLY@onelist.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu boundary="part1_0.d72911e7.255c7301_boundary" --part1_0.d72911e7.255c7301_boundary I read this and I cried. It made me think of two family members I had inthe Armed Forces....both dead now.....my husband who died 3 1/2 years ago, andmy mom who died 1 year ago. My husband was in the Navy and fought in VietNam, and my mom was in the Army Nurse Corp. and fought in WWll, followingthe front lines across Europe.I want to thank every single Vet that I know and that I don't know forbeing so courageous and defending me and protecting my freedoms!!!!!Words just seem to pale compared to what is in my heart...but they are allI have!!Thank you.....I love you all!!!!Kath~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In a message dated 11/11/99 10:37:00 AM Pacific Standard Time,BCampbellr writes: Subject: Twas the night before Christmas 'TWAS THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS,HE LIVED ALL ALONE,IN A ONE BEDROOM HOUSE MADE OFPLASTER AND STONE. I HAD COME DOWN THE CHIMNEYWITH PRESENTS TO GIVE,AND TO SEE JUST WHOIN THIS HOME DID LIVE. I LOOKED ALL ABOUT,A STRANGE SIGHT I DID SEE,NO TINSEL, NO PRESENTS,NOT EVEN A TREE. NO STOCKING BY MANTLE,JUST BOOTS FILLED WITH SAND,ON THE WALL HUNG PICTURESOF FAR DISTANT LANDS. WITH MEDALS AND BADGES,AWARDS OF ALL KINDS,A SOBER THOUGHTCAME THROUGH MY MIND. IT WAS DARK AND DREARY,I FOUND THE HOME OF A SOLDIER,ONCE I COULD SEE CLEARLY. THE SOLDIER LAY SLEEPING,SILENT, ALONE,CURLED UP ON THE FLOORIN THIS ONE BEDROOM HOME. THE FACE WAS SO GENTLE,THE ROOM IN SUCH DISORDER,NOT HOW I PICTUREDA UNITED STATES SOLDIER. WAS THIS THE HEROOF WHOM I'D JUST READ?CURLED UP ON A PONCHO,THE FLOOR FOR A BED? I REALIZED THE FAMILIESTHAT I SAW THIS NIGHT,OWED THEIR LIVES TO THESE SOLDIERSWHO WERE WILLING TO FIGHT. SOON ROUND THE WORLD,THE CHILDREN WOULD PLAY,AND GROWNUPS WOULD CELEBRATEA BRIGHT CHRISTMAS DAY. THEY ALL ENJOYED FREEDOMEACH MONTH OF THE YEAR,BECAUSE OF THE SOLDIERS,LIKE THE ONE LYING HERE. I COULDN'T HELP WONDERHOW MANY LAY ALONE,ON A COLD CHRISTMAS EVEIN A LAND FAR from HOME. THE VERY THOUGHTBROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE,I DROPPED TO MY KNEESAND STARTED TO CRY. THE SOLDIER AWAKENEDAND I HEARD A ROUGH VOICE,"SANTA DON'T CRY,THIS LIFE IS MY CHOICE; I FIGHT FOR FREEDOM,I DON'T ASK FOR MORE,MY LIFE IS MY GOD,MY COUNTRY, MY CORPS."THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVERAND DRIFTED TO SLEEP,I COULDN'T CONTROL IT,I CONTINUED TO WEEP. I KEPT WATCH FOR HOURS,SO SILENT AND STILLAND WE BOTH SHIVERED from THE COLD NIGHT'S CHILL.I DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVEON THAT COLD, DARK, NIGHT,THIS GUARDIAN OF HONORSO WILLING TO FIGHT.THEN THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER,WITH A VOICE SOFT AND PURE,WHISPERED, "CARRY ON SANTA,IT'S CHRISTMAS DAY, ALL IS SECURE."ONE LOOK AT MY WATCH,AND I KNEW HE WAS RIGHT."MERRY CHRISTMAS MY FRIEND,AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT." This poem was written by a Marine stationed in Okinawa Japan. Thefollowing is his request. I think it is reasonable.....PLEASE. Would you do me the kind favor of sending this to as manypeople as you can? Christmas will be coming soon and some credit isdue toour U.S. service men and women for our being able to celebrate thesefestivities.Let's try in this small way to pay a tiny bit of what we owe. Makepeople stop and think of our heroes, living and dead, who sacrificedthemselves for us. Please, do your small part to plant this small seed. "TWMPW""Life is like a painting, make each day a Masterpiece"Voice Mail: (503) 301-3027ICQ # 25509624 --part1_0.d72911e7.255c7301_boundary Full-name: BCampbellr Subject: Fwd: from a Marine suecampbellor@juno.com,Tysonwoods@aol.com, mrlnls@valint.net, Clara@mato.com,KJoh0001@aol.com, LLoen@aol.com, dlytle@mthoodbeverage.com,JOSEPH76@aol.com, SILVA1441@aol.com, JSWESTLAND@aol.com,PaulaJ43@aol.com, tinker5@ibm.net, amyw@bmi.net,muse201@hotmail.com boundary="part2_0.d72911e7.255c66cc_boundary" --part2_0.d72911e7.255c66cc_boundary On this Veteran's Day, lets remember those that are there for all of useach day..giving us the opportunities we have! Thanks, Bonnie PS I have a son in the Army...he works hard for us!!!! --part2_0.d72911e7.255c66cc_boundary Full-name: PJLUCICH Subject: Fwd: from a Marine boundary="part3_0.d72911e7.255a5e65_boundary" --part3_0.d72911e7.255a5e65_boundary --part3_0.d72911e7.255a5e65_boundary Full-name: PMcMeen Subject: from a Marine donna@pcez.com Subject: Twas the night before Christmas 'TWAS THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS,HE LIVED ALL ALONE,IN A ONE BEDROOM HOUSE MADE OFPLASTER AND STONE. I HAD COME DOWN THE CHIMNEYWITH PRESENTS TO GIVE,AND TO SEE JUST WHOIN THIS HOME DID LIVE. I LOOKED ALL ABOUT,A STRANGE SIGHT I DID SEE,NO TINSEL, NO PRESENTS,NOT EVEN A TREE. NO STOCKING BY MANTLE,JUST BOOTS FILLED WITH SAND,ON THE WALL HUNG PICTURESOF FAR DISTANT LANDS. WITH MEDALS AND BADGES,AWARDS OF ALL KINDS,A SOBER THOUGHTCAME THROUGH MY MIND. IT WAS DARK AND DREARY,I FOUND THE HOME OF A SOLDIER,ONCE I COULD SEE CLEARLY. THE SOLDIER LAY SLEEPING,SILENT, ALONE,CURLED UP ON THE FLOORIN THIS ONE BEDROOM HOME. THE FACE WAS SO GENTLE,THE ROOM IN SUCH DISORDER,NOT HOW I PICTUREDA UNITED STATES SOLDIER. WAS THIS THE HEROOF WHOM I'D JUST READ?CURLED UP ON A PONCHO,THE FLOOR FOR A BED? I REALIZED THE FAMILIESTHAT I SAW THIS NIGHT,OWED THEIR LIVES TO THESE SOLDIERSWHO WERE WILLING TO FIGHT. SOON ROUND THE WORLD,THE CHILDREN WOULD PLAY,AND GROWNUPS WOULD CELEBRATEA BRIGHT CHRISTMAS DAY. THEY ALL ENJOYED FREEDOMEACH MONTH OF THE YEAR,BECAUSE OF THE SOLDIERS,LIKE THE ONE LYING HERE. I COULDN'T HELP WONDERHOW MANY LAY ALONE,ON A COLD CHRISTMAS EVEIN A LAND FAR from HOME. THE VERY THOUGHTBROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE,I DROPPED TO MY KNEESAND STARTED TO CRY. THE SOLDIER AWAKENEDAND I HEARD A ROUGH VOICE,"SANTA DON'T CRY,THIS LIFE IS MY CHOICE; I FIGHT FOR FREEDOM,I DON'T ASK FOR MORE,MY LIFE IS MY GOD,MY COUNTRY, MY CORPS."THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVERAND DRIFTED TO SLEEP,I COULDN'T CONTROL IT,I CONTINUED TO WEEP. I KEPT WATCH FOR HOURS,SO SILENT AND STILLAND WE BOTH SHIVERED from THE COLD NIGHT'S CHILL.I DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVEON THAT COLD, DARK, NIGHT,THIS GUARDIAN OF HONORSO WILLING TO FIGHT.THEN THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER,WITH A VOICE SOFT AND PURE,WHISPERED, "CARRY ON SANTA,IT'S CHRISTMAS DAY, ALL IS SECURE."ONE LOOK AT MY WATCH,AND I KNEW HE WAS RIGHT."MERRY CHRISTMAS MY FRIEND,AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT." This poem was written by a Marine stationed in Okinawa Japan. Thefollowing is his request. I think it is reasonable.....PLEASE. Would you do me the kind favor of sending this to as manypeople as you can? Christmas will be coming soon and some credit is duetoour U.S. service men and women for our being able to celebrate thesefestivities.Let's try in this small way to pay a tiny bit of what we owe. Makepeople stop and think of our heroes, living and dead, who sacrificedthemselves for us. Please, do your small part to plant this small seed. --part3_0.d72911e7.255a5e65_boundary-- --part2_0.d72911e7.255c66cc_boundary-- --part1_0.d72911e7.255c7301_boundary-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Nov 11 14:47:45 1999 Subject: Re: First rod You should not be ashamed and embarrassed, unless of course the fishstartlaughing.I happen to know of one guy that is unashamedly selling such rods and heoffersadvice on his website on professional rod building. I am just waiting forthebook!First rods are always ugly, the cane work is easy compared to thecosmetics.Aways treasure your first rod, the rest will never be as much fun.Terry EESweet@aol.com wrote: Hi Everyone, So I'm taking a break from wrapping the guides on my first cane rod andjustthought I'd ask; how many of you finished your first rod and thought "Thisdidn't turn out quite as well as I'd hoped..."? I remember reading on thelist a while back where someone said they were working on their secondrod,the first one being hidden away in the attic, so I know I'm not alone.Anyone out there have any first rod horror stories they'd like to share soIdon't feel like a completely inept tool user? Help!! Ashamed and embarassed in Oakland, Eric Sweet from johanyga@online.no Thu Nov 11 16:29:53 1999 (MET) Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan_Nystr=F8m?= To the List, I desperately seek the E-mail address of the Swedish collector andLeonardafficionado Jan Nystrom. Can anybody help me? Regards,Johan Nygaardsvold from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Thu Nov 11 16:35:54 1999 Subject: Threat to the Letort Spring Run This is a bit off topic but I thought it would be of interest to all. Thanks for your support....... F The Letort Spring Run is threatened by the pending request of adeveloper tobuild a Home Depot on Radio Square. The tract of land is located next toanold landfill and is directly adjacent to the Letort Spring Run. Thedevelopment threatens the scenic beauty and ecological value of theLetort.Disturbing the landfill threatens the health of the Letort Spring Run inthefollowing ways:1. Potential for leaching of unidentified chemicals from thelandfill into the water and spawning beds of the Letort downstream from the tract of land,2. Potential for erosion of landfill materials during theconstruction,3. Possibility of sedimentation entering the stream, and4. Unknown potential damage to the Letort fishery and wildlife habitat.5. Threat to the recharge area. This tract of ground was the subject of proposed Walmart Development in1994. The land is located near Exit 14 of I-81. The lot is located nexttothe Letort Spring Run, south of I-81 and east of PA Route 34. Thepropertyis owned by Richard F. Lewis, Jr, Inc. and lies near the existing SleepInnHotel and a Cracker Barrel restaurant. Until 8/12/99 the zoning for the Lewis property was R-2 (Medium DensityResidential). The current zoning is now C-3 (General Commercial). TheCarlisle Borough Council just voted (5-2) to approve the rezoning anddevelopment.The Lewis tract was formerly a radio station until 1988. Approximately15years ago, the tract was rezoned from commercial zoning to its currentR-2designation. The Letort Regional Authority and our chapter opposed the rezoningarguingparking lot runoff will harm Letort Spring Run -- which is locatedseveralhundred feet east of the rezoned tracts. We will continue to monitor the development plan to ensure the Letort is protected. How You Can Help!!! Our Chapter has retained the services of an environmental attorney andanenvironmental engineer to help defend the Letort Spring Run. We are also working closely with a neighborhood coalition -- The Letort Neighborhood Preservation Association. We will be closely monitoring the developmentplan. The cost to protect the Letort will be expensive. If you would like tobepart of this important fight, please send your contribution to theaddresslisted below for the Cumberland Valley Chapter of Trout Unlimited.Thanks The Borough of Carlisle has rezoned fourteen acres along south Route 34- the Radio Square land and adjacent land - as Commercial to accommodatethelocation of a Home Depot along the Letort Spring Run.This development poses a direct threat to the health and future LetortSpring Run and is of great concern the Cumberland Valley Chapter ofTroutUnlimited and we will be working through the development, constructionandretail phase of this proposed use to ensure proper care of the Letort. If you have a similar concern, we urge you to express it directly toHomeDepot. Their address is: Arthur M. Blank, PresidentThe Home Depot, Inc.2455 Paces Ferry RoadAtlanta, GA 30339(770) 433-8211 Copies should be sent to the Borough Council of Carlisle and it's Mayor, Kirk Wilson at: Borough of Carlisle53 West South StreetCarlisle, PA 17013(717) 249-4422 Please also send copies of your correspondence to CVTU. Donations tosupport our efforts will also be accepted. Thanks for your concern andsupport. Cumberland Valley Chapter of Trout UnlimitedP. O. Box 520Carlisle, PA 17055fcfp@ix.netcom.com --Fred Bohls3519 Ada DriveMechanicsburg, PA 17055(717) 258-3579 MAKE IT A GREAT DAY !!! from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Nov 11 18:45:02 1999 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Rod Repairs Hell All, I met a gentleman at the local fly shop today who is interested ingettiing his grandfathers old Heddon repaired and renewed, to hang onhis wall. It has one tip which is broken off 6 inches short. Does anyoneon the list do these types of repairs, and if so what would you charge.You can email me privately so as not to go astray of the list protocols. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from stuart.tod@virgin.net Fri Nov 12 00:48:37 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP Fri, 12 Nov 1999 06:48:24 +0000 "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: Enamel No nightmares after a sound meal of Toad in the Hole, accompanied by agenerous helping of Bubble & Squeak, all running in a rich onion gravy,followed by a large slice of Spotted Dick with real custard.....sleep thesleep of the just!! Stuart----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Enamel YOU'AL ARE GOING TO INTERUPT MY NITELY PISCATORIALDREAMS WITH NIGHTMARES --- k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote:Do you eat it while running from a Goyonder or shareit with a Mugwump or a Mylarmore bird? Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com hexagon@odyssee.net wrote: Bill,Bubble and Squeak is the food of gods, you have totaste it to appreciateit.WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Ok.So, since we're wasting bandwidth anyhow, what is"bubble and squeak"? cheers,Bill ----- Original Message ----- From:title="watson@cape-consult.co.uk">Tim& Jilly Watson title="RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu">rod'akers Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 19991:51 PM Subject: Re: EnamelOK,Sorry aboout this.Toad in the hole is batter and sausages andSpotted Dick is a pudding.Foranyone who is interested I've attached therecipes.Apologies to those not interested in the bandwidth----- Original Message -----From: timothy troester consult.co.uk>;rod 'akers Sent: 10 November 1999 19:24Subject: Re: Enamel i'm sorry but i'm still confused...and you'renotgoing to get to know me any better until i knowwhat aspotted dick and toad in the hole is. timothy --- Tim & Jilly Watson consult.co.uk>wrote:Dear oh Dear!What a sad lot - not only don't you know whatafloat case is but SpottedDick and Toad in the Hole!! CulinarySacrilige.A float case is a length of culm, normallyabout3-4" in diameter. The culmis cut just below the node so that the tubehas abase, and then cut about9 - 12" above the node. A nice hardwoodstopper ismade for the open endand the whole thing is varnished to within athou ofperfection. Into thistube are placed floats, as in fishing floats.They look great.Now as to Spotted Dick..........well I'm notsure Inow y'all well enoughyet!T----- Original Message -----From: Rick C. Cc: consult.co.uk>;Rodmakers Sent: 10 November 1999 02:48Subject: Re: Enamel Exactly Terry!! I'll be the one to fess uphere.What in tarnation isa float case?? As far as that goes, what orwhois Spotted Dick andToad in the Hole?? One confused SR (Southern Rodmaker). Rick C. TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Float cases on the list? you might aswell ask Tim & Jilly Watson wrote: What does everyoneuse to get the enameloff the culms.I'mmaking some float cases from3-4" stock andwould like someadvice.ThanksTim. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at HREF="http://auctions.yahoo.com">http://auctions.yahoo.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from utzerath@execpc.com Fri Nov 12 06:25:25 1999 Subject: Lathe Attachment follow up etc. First thanks to everyone who responded to my "Flaming Patterns?" topic. The3x3 stagger suggestion is great except I don't have enough confidence inmyworkmanship around nodes (only going to be ,my 3rd cane rod) to try oneofthose yet. The use of a heat gun for flaming seems to me like it mighttemper the cane a little deeper than I would like (I still intend to heattreat afterwards in an oven.) I'll figure out something. NOW, the vertical lathe attachment definitely needs a guard to keepferrules from (sob) rolling into the chuck. Sometime this weekend I will e-mail afew JPG photos of my answer to the ten or so of you that requested aprint.If anyone else is interested, just e-mail me off-list. The attachmentworkswell for fitting ferrules using abrasive papers as the only tool; and, tome, the vertical orientation of the work is better. from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Nov 12 07:04:10 1999 1999 05:04:05 PST Subject: Re: First Rod eric, yes, of course the attempt is important but howdoes the rod perform? cosmetics are hard and can betedious and the information you need can be confusing,contradictory and nonexisting. fish the rod. you havedone something that so many dream of and never getaround to or intemidated out of. also,there are alotof cosmetically pretty rods out there that cast likecrap. squint you eyes abit when you look at your newrod and make your decision hip deep in your favoriteshangralai and apart from your fellows. timothytroester --- EESweet@aol.com wrote:Hi Tim, Well, while I'm not a perfectionist, I do like toget it right the first time. Since I didn't I'm being a little toocritical of myself even though I know that this is something that gets better eachtime you do it. Anyway, thanks for the encouragement, and your right, theattempt is what counts. Eric eric, they can all be less than perfect and nonebefailures. timothy troester ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from BigJohn47@aol.com Fri Nov 12 07:48:29 1999 Subject: medved beveler does anyone out there have any experence with the medved beveler or any information about it.thanks john from yves@dancris.com Fri Nov 12 12:49:17 1999 Subject: travel rod List: Would anyone have a taper for a 4 piece, 5 wt. 8' or 8'6" rod, ordirect me towhere I could find one? Planning a trip to New Zealand next spring, andhope to get in acouple of days of the evidently great fishing! Thanks in advance. Dave La Touche from mark_lang@tnb.com Fri Nov 12 16:17:25 1999 with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 12 Nov 1999 16:17:13 -0600 Subject: low cost components Anyone,As I am in the process of preparing to make my first rod I was wonderingif there is asource for low cost components. Should I expect to pay around $45 for a 2male set offerrules? Thanks from knflyrod@home.com Fri Nov 12 16:33:26 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:33:21 -0800 Subject: Re: travel rod Dave, Have you considered "the Smuggler" from Phillipson. It is a 6wgt,7'8" 4 pc. I have the rod but have not developed a taper pattern. RonHuff----- Original Message ----- Subject: travel rod List: Would anyone have a taper for a 4 piece, 5 wt. 8' or 8'6" rod, ordirect me to where I could find one? Planning a trip to New Zealand nextspring, and hope to get in a couple of days of the evidently great fishing!Thanks in advance. Dave La Touche from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Nov 12 17:10:35 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 12 Nov 1999 17:10:40 -0600 Subject: New address boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0048_01BF2D30.D02AA8C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BF2D30.D02AA8C0 Please note that since I went on cable service, my address has change to =: nobler@satx.rr.com This is my "play" address, while the other is for =business. Thanks to all, GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BF2D30.D02AA8C0 Please note that since I went on cable = = address, while the other is for business. Thanks to all, GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BF2D30.D02AA8C0-- from chris@artistree.com Fri Nov 12 18:22:53 1999 Subject: Fw: Aqua Rods List, can anyone help this gentleman out?C. Wohlford Ken Lake wrote: Sir;I have three bamboo rods Black in color and they came in a wooden case(like balsa wood). I believe they might be Japanese made but I am notsure. Can you give me some direction as to where I may find out a littlemore about these rods? Thanks,Ken Lake email: klake@30below.com> from rp43640@online-club.de Fri Nov 12 18:33:06 1999 Sat, 13 Nov 1999 01:32:20 +0100 (MET) ,Ken Lake Subject: Re: Fw: Aqua Rods My brother showed me a year ago a Noris Shakespeare Rod 8'6" 3 piece from oneof his colleagues. This rod was also black. I suspect Shakespeare choosethiscolor on the rods to fight the upcoming competition of fiberglas rods. Somaybe it is this direction to search. Christian Chris Wohlford schrieb: List, can anyone help this gentleman out?C. Wohlford Ken Lake wrote: Sir;I have three bamboo rods Black in color and they came in a wooden case(like balsa wood). I believe they might be Japanese made but I am notsure. Can you give me some direction as to where I may find out a littlemore about these rods? Thanks,Ken Lakeemail: klake@30below.com> from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Nov 12 20:46:39 1999 Subject: Re: SRG 99 pictures Bob,why are rodmakers so bloody ugly? Perhaps you should have just tookpicturesof the rods!Terry Bob Nunley wrote: The pics were great... one question! Something wrong with yourcamera????It didn't do a very good job of picking up the hair on mine and Wayne'sheads! Bob -----Original Message-----From: Charles Curro Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 7:18 PMSubject: SRG 99 pictures Listers Finally got the Southern Rodmakers website updated with this year'sphotos of nodely fun and frolic. Wish you all could have been there. Here's the address: http://www.curro.net/srg99 cc from flyman35@home.com Fri Nov 12 20:52:11 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP Subject: inking blanks. I'm about to mark a blank, and I wondering what would work best. I'munder the impression that free handing with india ink is theconventional method, but I'd like to know if there is a way tha wouldproduce more uniform lettering. BTW, if I screw up with india ink, willit be permanent? Thanks for anay help, MAtt from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Nov 12 20:53:34 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 12 Nov 1999 20:53:32 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: SRG 99 pictures boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0047_01BF2D4F.F265FE20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BF2D4F.F265FE20 Ugly is in the eye of the beholder ! Someone's mamma, thinks they are =hansom ! (BG) GMA Sent: Friday, November 12, 1999 8:50 PMSubject: Re: SRG 99 pictures Bob,why are rodmakers so bloody ugly? Perhaps you should have just took =picturesof the rods!Terry Bob Nunley wrote: The pics were great... one question! Something wrong with your =camera????It didn't do a very good job of picking up the hair on mine and =Wayne'sheads! Bob -----Original Message-----From: Charles Curro Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 7:18 PMSubject: SRG 99 pictures Listers Finally got the Southern Rodmakers website updated with this year'sphotos of nodely fun and frolic. Wish you all could have been =there. Here's the address: http://www.curro.net/srg99 cc ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BF2D4F.F265FE20 Ugly is in the eye of the beholder ! = thinks they are hansom ! (BG) GMA ----- Original Message ----- ACKLAND Makers List Serve Sent: Friday, November 12, 1999= PMSubject: Re: SRG 99 =picturesBob,why are rodmakers so bloody ugly? Perhaps you= RODMAKERS <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= = ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BF2D4F.F265FE20-- from jbarber@verinet.com Fri Nov 12 21:08:36 1999 Subject: Black rod Here is a black lacquer rod listed on e-bay.http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=195819211 from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 12 21:18:14 1999 with ESMTP id ;Sat, 13 Nov 1999 03:17:41 +0000 Rod Makers List Serve Subject: Re: SRG 99 pictures Hey Terry, Ever see a pic of me?? There's a good reason for that! ROFL!!! Dennis TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Bob,why are rodmakers so bloody ugly? Perhaps you should have just tookpicturesof the rods!Terry Bob Nunley wrote: The pics were great... one question! Something wrong with yourcamera????It didn't do a very good job of picking up the hair on mine and Wayne'sheads! Bob -----Original Message-----From: Charles Curro Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 7:18 PMSubject: SRG 99 pictures Listers Finally got the Southern Rodmakers website updated with this year'sphotos of nodely fun and frolic. Wish you all could have been there. Here's the address: http://www.curro.net/srg99 cc from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Nov 12 21:20:14 1999 Fri, 12 Nov 1999 19:20:07 -0800 Subject: Re: inking blanks. Matt,Go to any hobby, office supply, or art store, and find a PigmaMicron .001 in whatever color your choose. (Most choose black!) That penis a lot like a super fine felt tip pen. Often I put on the first coat ofvarnish, sand it almost off, then put the inscription on. That way thevarnish seals the bamboo.I also use the traditional pen and ink sometimes. Just be sure toget a good quality india ink.Hope this helps, Harry MATTHEW TROPP wrote: I'm about to mark a blank, and I wondering what would work best. I'munder the impression that free handing with india ink is theconventional method, but I'd like to know if there is a way tha wouldproduce more uniform lettering. BTW, if I screw up with india ink, willit be permanent? Thanks for anay help, MAtt from cadams46@juno.com Fri Nov 12 22:40:36 1999 23:39:56 EST Subject: low cost componets Jann's Netcraft in Maumee, Ohio sells some nice lower cost componets. They sell a nickle plated brass ferrule set for about $5. Bought a setof them for a cheap rod I repaired and was fairly impressed, didn't havea mositure plug but you get what you pay for I suppose. Their number is800-NETCRAFT, or 419-868-8288. No financial interests or anything likethat. Hope that helps. Sincerely,C.R. Adams Anyone,As I am in the process of preparing to make my first rod I was wonderingif there is a source for low cost components. Should I expect to payaround $45 for a 2 male set of ferrules? Thanks from EESweet@aol.com Fri Nov 12 23:10:14 1999 Subject: Re: First Rod Well said Timothy. One of the reasons the cosmetics are less than they should be is because I was hurrying the whole way through. Why? Well,I'm leaving for a week in New Zealand on Monday and I didn't want to fish suchan angling mecca without a rod of my own creation. I'll be taking it out and casting it for the first time tomorrow morning. I'll report back what I think of it afterwards. And I'll do a little squinting as well.Eric eric, yes, of course the attempt is important but howdoes the rod perform? cosmetics are hard and can betedious and the information you need can be confusing,contradictory and nonexisting. fish the rod. you havedone something that so many dream of and never getaround to or intemidated out of. also,there are alotof cosmetically pretty rods out there that cast likecrap. squint you eyes abit when you look at your newrod and make your decision hip deep in your favoriteshangralai and apart from your fellows. timothytroester from EM11EM22@aol.com Fri Nov 12 23:14:10 1999 Subject: Bishop Gathering 99 Just wanted to let you guys know that the photos turned out great........ the only problem is that I should have taken more! (Except that I also wantedthe time for listening, talking, casting those classics, and fishing......) I will try this week to get a selection of them posted to a web page.... Many thanks to all of you that made the gathering both a great and special time appreciated!!! A special thanks to Chuck for hosting the gathering, and a "bigger" thanks to his wife, for putting up with us.Regards,Ed Miller from m.boretti@agonet.it Sat Nov 13 03:56:46 1999 Subject: Info about WEB site. boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF2DC5.F1B15080" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF2DC5.F1B15080 Hi all,I am searking the web page of Withely rods, I do not able to contact =him.Can anyware list friends help me ? Sincerely,Marco Boretti. m.boretti@agonet.it ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF2DC5.F1B15080 Hi all,I am searking the web page of Withely= not able to contact him.Can anyware list friends help me =? Sincerely,Marco Boretti. m.boretti@agonet.it ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF2DC5.F1B15080-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Nov 13 07:28:54 1999 Subject: Re: Info about WEB site. C933BADD0189CDFAC93AC691" --------------C933BADD0189CDFAC93AC691 I think he is training George Gehrke up on rodmaking and embroidery.Find Gehrke and you will find Whiteley. (a match made in heaven)Try searching for "Gink" and a polite email to uncle George should getyou in touch. Marco Boretti wrote: Hi all,I am searking the web page of Withely rods, I do not able tocontact him.Can anyware list friends help me ? Sincerely,MarcoBoretti. m.boretti@agonet.it --------------C933BADD0189CDFAC93AC691 I think he is training George Gehrke up on rodmaking and embroidery. FindGehrke and you will find Whiteley. (a match made in heaven)Try searching for "Gink" and a polite email to uncle George should Marco Boretti wrote: Hiall,I am searking thewebpage of Withely rods, I do not able to contact him.Can --------------C933BADD0189CDFAC93AC691-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Nov 13 07:42:15 1999 Sat, 13 Nov 1999 05:42:04 -0800 Subject: Re: Info about WEB site. boundary="------------D6E4EA9567B16A937841EE13" --------------D6E4EA9567B16A937841EE13 Marco,I could easily be mistaken, but I think Paul Whitely is out ofthe rodmaking business. He sold much of his equipment to a guy tryingto re- invent the Montague. Then he made a horse's ass of himself onthis list when he proved how ugly midguided religion can be. Anythingwe can help you with? Harry Boyd Marco Boretti wrote: Hi all,I am searking the web page of Withely rods, I do not able tocontact him.Can anyware list friends help me ? Sincerely,MarcoBoretti. m.boretti@agonet.it --------------D6E4EA9567B16A937841EE13 Marco, mistaken, Then he made a horse's ass of himself on this list when he proved how ugly Marco Boretti wrote: Hiall,I am searking the webpage of Withely rods, I do not able to contact him.Can --------------D6E4EA9567B16A937841EE13-- from caneman@clnk.com Sat Nov 13 07:47:04 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sat, 13 Nov 1999 07:45:38 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: SRG 99 pictures Terry... I don't know... maybe it's something in the epoxies or the bambooitself... LOL... or perhaps it is just that since we were just born so ugly,we, naturally, because of our appearance, have no social life, whatsoeverand we have nothing else to do with our time, but to spend our days, nightsand weekends in a shop building rods! Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: SRG 99 pictures Bob,why are rodmakers so bloody ugly? Perhaps you should have just tookpicturesof the rods!Terry Bob Nunley wrote: The pics were great... one question! Something wrong with yourcamera????It didn't do a very good job of picking up the hair on mine and Wayne'sheads! Bob -----Original Message-----From: Charles Curro Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 7:18 PMSubject: SRG 99 pictures Listers Finally got the Southern Rodmakers website updated with this year'sphotos of nodely fun and frolic. Wish you all could have been there. Here's the address: http://www.curro.net/srg99 cc from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Nov 13 08:06:37 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 13 Nov 1999 07:59:08 -0600 Subject: Re: low cost componets boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0042_01BF2DAD.FA6E7BC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01BF2DAD.FA6E7BC0 You are building something of your own creation. What value do you place =on it ? Are you going to put $5 ferrules, or reel seat, on something =that takes so much of YOU ? Besides it's CANE, which deserves only the best ! Think about it ! GMA Sent: Friday, November 12, 1999 10:40 PMSubject: low cost componets Jann's Netcraft in Maumee, Ohio sells some nice lower cost They sell a nickle plated brass ferrule set for about $5. Bought a =setof them for a cheap rod I repaired and was fairly impressed, didn't =havea mositure plug but you get what you pay for I suppose. Their number =is800- NETCRAFT, or 419-868-8288. No financial interests or anything =likethat. Hope that helps. Sincerely,C.R. Adams Anyone,As I am in the process of preparing to make my first rod I was =wonderingif there is a source for low cost components. Should I expect to payaround $45 for a 2 male set of ferrules? Thanks ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01BF2DAD.FA6E7BC0 You are building something of your own = value do you place on it ? Are you going to put $5 ferrules, or reel = something that takes so much of YOU ? Besides it's CANE, which deserves only the best =! Think about it ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Chase R = = Sent: Friday, November 12, 1999= PMSubject: low cost =componetsJann's Netcraft in Maumee, Ohio sells some nice lower = componets. They sell a nickle plated brass ferrule set for about = Bought a setof them for a cheap rod I repaired and was fairly = didn't havea mositure plug but you get what you pay for I = financial = AdamsAnyone,As I am in the process of preparing to makemy = rod I was wonderingif there is a source for low cost = ferrules?Thanks ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01BF2DAD.FA6E7BC0-- from sniderja@email.uc.edu Sat Nov 13 08:35:07 1999 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: SRG 99 pictures Heck, it works for me.....with, of course, LOTS of on stream time. I alwaysassumed that the reason fly fishing is such a solitary endeavor is becausemale fly fishers don't want to be seen in public...and now you also have meconvinced me that they are also mostly very old and mostly bald! (Sorrygalfly fishers!)J. SniderAt 07:44 AM 11/13/99 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote:Terry... I don't know... maybe it's something in the epoxies or the bambooitself... LOL... or perhaps it is just that since we were just born so ugly,we, naturally, because of our appearance, have no social life, whatsoeverand we have nothing else to do with our time, but to spend our days,nightsand weekends in a shop building rods! Bob-----Original Message-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: ccurrojr@voyager.net ; Rod Makers List Serve Date: Friday, November 12, 1999 8:45 PMSubject: Re: SRG 99 pictures Bob,why are rodmakers so bloody ugly? Perhaps you should have just tookpicturesof the rods!Terry Bob Nunley wrote: The pics were great... one question! Something wrong with yourcamera????It didn't do a very good job of picking up the hair on mine and Wayne'sheads! Bob -----Original Message-----From: Charles Curro Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 7:18 PMSubject: SRG 99 pictures Listers Finally got the Southern Rodmakers website updated with this year'sphotos of nodely fun and frolic. Wish you all could have been there. Here's the address: http://www.curro.net/srg99 cc from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Nov 13 08:40:24 1999 [205.167.143.72] (may beforged)) Subject: Re: low cost componets I have these ferrules on the first two rods I made. I figured, heck thefirst rod would be a junker so why spend the money for expensive ferrules.Ihave regretted it. As it turned out the rod is not a junker, the ferrulestands out like a sore thumb. On the first rod, after a few casts it startedclicking. It took a lot of finagling to get the female ferrule tight. Thesecond rod was a gift that will probably never be fished, that is the onlyreason I used it on that rod. I still have two more but I would be carefulabout trying to use them. It might of been that I got a bad one on the firstrod. It was tight till I starting casting it. This is my experience , justpassing it on.BTW, I deal a lot with Jann'sTony FlyTyr@southshore.com Chase R Adams wrote: Jann's Netcraft in Maumee, Ohio sells some nice lower cost componets.They sell a nickle plated brass ferrule set for about $5. Bought a setof them for a cheap rod I repaired and was fairly impressed, didn't havea mositure plug but you get what you pay for I suppose. Their number is800-NETCRAFT, or 419-868-8288. No financial interests or anythinglikethat. Hope that helps. Sincerely,C.R. Adams Anyone,As I am in the process of preparing to make my first rod I was wonderingif there is a source for low cost components. Should I expect to payaround $45 for a 2 male set of ferrules? Thanks from rsgould@cmc.net Sat Nov 13 10:09:09 1999 Subject: Re: inking blanks. Hi Matthew,There are two pens I can recommend to you for the inkwork and bothshould beavailable through a local art shop. The first is a "Grumbacher Artist Pen works nicely. The second is a "Pigma" with the smallest tip size.To prepare the blank put a coat of varnish on the area where you wish toplace the inkwork and let it dry thoroughly. This helps produce sharp inklines. Should you make a mistake remove the inkwork with 220 gritsandpaperfollowed by 0000 steel wool and start over.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: inking blanks. I'm about to mark a blank, and I wondering what would work best. I'munder the impression that free handing with india ink is theconventional method, but I'd like to know if there is a way tha wouldproduce more uniform lettering. BTW, if I screw up with india ink, willit be permanent? Thanks for anay help, MAtt from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Nov 13 10:38:04 1999 Subject: Re: SRG 99 pictures Bob,that is my theory, just about. I think that the wives prefer their uglyhusbands to come home from work and slide off down the the basement on end!......cute guys would not get permission.Terry Bob Nunley wrote: Terry... I don't know... maybe it's something in the epoxies or the bambooitself... LOL... or perhaps it is just that since we were just born so ugly,we, naturally, because of our appearance, have no social life, whatsoeverand we have nothing else to do with our time, but to spend our days,nightsand weekends in a shop building rods! Bob-----Original Message-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: ccurrojr@voyager.net ; Rod Makers List Serve Date: Friday, November 12, 1999 8:45 PMSubject: Re: SRG 99 pictures Bob,why are rodmakers so bloody ugly? Perhaps you should have just tookpicturesof the rods!Terry Bob Nunley wrote: The pics were great... one question! Something wrong with yourcamera????It didn't do a very good job of picking up the hair on mine and Wayne'sheads! Bob -----Original Message-----From: Charles Curro Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 7:18 PMSubject: SRG 99 pictures Listers Finally got the Southern Rodmakers website updated with this year'sphotos of nodely fun and frolic. Wish you all could have been there. Here's the address: http://www.curro.net/srg99 cc from Canerods@aol.com Sat Nov 13 11:50:40 1999 Subject: Re: low cost componets In a message dated 11/12/99 9:00:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, cadams46@juno.com writes: C.R. & all, Netcraft is running out of those ferrules - the last time I ordered some(few weeks ago), several sizes were already out of stock and Netcraft had an unknown (IE never) arrival time for new stock. they were intended for joining sections of glass/graphite rod blanks thatare made in one piece and then cut into sections. Therefore the female - male openings are about 1/64th different in size. Much like a modern "Swiss"style NS ferrule. But because they were intended to join only 2 pieces of oneblank - there's no second tip male ferrule with the smaller sizes. Buy severalsets and hope to find 2 males that fit one female. However, they should still be a good cheap way to finish off a firstbamboo rod - just order them now to be sure that they'll be in stock. MAJOR NOTE: They are terrible at replacing old Montague or H-I "milkbottle" ferrules, so don't even waste your money to try it. Don Burns PS - Also try Dale Clemens or Angler's Workshop if you can't find what you need at Netcraft. Both carry (or did carry) NPB ferrules, but at a higher price. from bluefin_1999@yahoo.com Sat Nov 13 12:57:31 1999 1999 10:57:28 PST Subject: Morgan Hand Mill Does anyone on the list own a "hand mill"? I would beinterested in hearing any feedback about this product. TIA ===== __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Nov 13 13:04:43 1999 [12.10.111.99] (may be forged)) Subject: Re: low cost componets These same ferrules can be still be purchased from Midland Tackle in N.Y. Igot acouple recently to check out, they appear to be same as the ones fromJann's.They start at 14/64 and larger.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Canerods@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/12/99 9:00:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,cadams46@juno.com writes: They sell a nickle plated brass ferrule set for about $5. Bought a setof them for a cheap rod I repaired and was fairly impressed, didn't havea mositure plug but you get what you pay for I suppose. Their number is800-NETCRAFT, or 419-868-8288. No financial interests or anythinglikethat. Hope that helps. Sincerely,C.R. Adams >> C.R. & all, Netcraft is running out of those ferrules - the last time I ordered some(fewweeks ago), several sizes were already out of stock and Netcraft had anunknown (IE never) arrival time for new stock. they were intended for joining sections of glass/graphite rod blanks thataremade in one piece and then cut into sections. Therefore the female - maleopenings are about 1/64th different in size. Much like a modern "Swiss"styleNS ferrule. But because they were intended to join only 2 pieces of oneblank- there's no second tip male ferrule with the smaller sizes. Buy severalsetsand hope to find 2 males that fit one female.However, they should still be a good cheap way to finish off a firstbamboorod - just order them now to be sure that they'll be in stock. MAJOR NOTE: They are terrible at replacing old Montague or H-I "milkbottle"ferrules, so don't even waste your money to try it. Don Burns PS - Also try Dale Clemens or Angler's Workshop if you can't find whatyouneed at Netcraft. Both carry (or did carry) NPB ferrules, but at a higherprice. from EESweet@aol.com Sat Nov 13 13:47:04 1999 Subject: Determining Line Size Hi All, Well, I took my first rod to the lake today to see what I had wrought. I have to say, cosmetic flaws and all, I'm pretty pleased. It's a Dickerson 8014, 3 pc. 8' for #6 line (modified from the 1949 2 pc. 8014 from pg. 47of Howell's book). What I found in casting it with a WF6F is that it's*really* good out to about 30', at which point I start to get trailing (tailing?) loops. I can correct for it to some extent by adding a haul on the forward stroke, it just seems strange to do so with so little line out. Not being the worlds greatest caster I know I'm at least contributing to theproblem, but I've never had it to this extent before. It usually only happens to me when I'm trying to keep too much line in the air, but not at 30'. I'm thinking that I would be better off using a #5 line on this rod, does anyone have an opinion on that? And if so should I go with a WF or DT and why? As always, thanks for the input! Eric from anglport@con2.com Sat Nov 13 14:47:11 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id ADEF88F00D0; Sat, 13 Nov 1999 15:45:35 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: low cost componets And Midland is a fine place to deal with. I have used them when I could formore years than I care to recall.No connection; just a satisfied customer.Art At 01:02 PM 11/13/1999 -0600, Tony Spezio wrote: These same ferrules can be still be purchased from Midland Tackle in N.Y.I got acouple recently to check out, they appear to be same as the ones fromJann's.They start at 14/64 and larger.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Canerods@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/12/99 9:00:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,cadams46@juno.com writes: They sell a nickle plated brass ferrule set for about $5. Bought a setof them for a cheap rod I repaired and was fairly impressed, didn't havea mositure plug but you get what you pay for I suppose. Their numberis800-NETCRAFT, or 419-868-8288. No financial interests or anythinglikethat. Hope that helps. Sincerely,C.R. Adams >> C.R. & all, Netcraft is running out of those ferrules - the last time I ordered some(fewweeks ago), several sizes were already out of stock and Netcraft had anunknown (IE never) arrival time for new stock. they were intended for joining sections of glass/graphite rod blanksthat aremade in one piece and then cut into sections. Therefore the female - maleopenings are about 1/64th different in size. Much like a modern "Swiss"styleNS ferrule. But because they were intended to join only 2 pieces of oneblank- there's no second tip male ferrule with the smaller sizes. Buy severalsetsand hope to find 2 males that fit one female.However, they should still be a good cheap way to finish off a firstbamboorod - just order them now to be sure that they'll be in stock. MAJOR NOTE: They are terrible at replacing old Montague or H-I "milkbottle"ferrules, so don't even waste your money to try it. Don Burns PS - Also try Dale Clemens or Angler's Workshop if you can't find whatyouneed at Netcraft. Both carry (or did carry) NPB ferrules, but at a higherprice. *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun, but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from tragich23@juno.com Sat Nov 13 15:02:50 1999 16:02:23 EST Subject: Re: low cost componets AMEN, SPEND THE MONEY MAN AI from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Nov 13 16:11:34 1999 Subject: Re: New source of Tonkin cane Just got back form the Bamboo Earl - Cary Chan, that's the guywith the www.bamboopoles.com web site. Keep in mind that this is a natural agricultural product and thereis going to be a lot of natural variance in the culms. The bales we cut open and inspected I would have been happywith if I had bought them. Sure there were a few water marks, andI saw leaf nodes (2 of them) and 1 worm hole, but the majority of the culms had great power fiber. Mr. Chan didn't have a very good idea of what rodmakers look for,so I volunteered to take an afternoon and sort a few bales for himso he could get an idea of what is good, what is so - so, and whatis bad. To be honest I saw nothing I would have thrown away. Ofcourse I did see some I would have made a knock around "justfishin" rod out of, but most of it I would rate as very good to excellent.He has 4800 culms, so he shouldn't run out soon. Darryl from caneman@clnk.com Sat Nov 13 16:22:13 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sat, 13 Nov 1999 16:20:47 -0600 Subject: Re: New source of Tonkin cane Many of us met Mr. Chan at the SRG99. He was there promoting his TonkinCane, but there, he seemed to have his own ideas of what we were lookingfor. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: New source of Tonkin cane Just got back form the Bamboo Earl - Cary Chan, that's the guywith the www.bamboopoles.com web site. Keep in mind that this is a natural agricultural product and thereis going to be a lot of natural variance in the culms. The bales we cut open and inspected I would have been happywith if I had bought them. Sure there were a few water marks, andI saw leaf nodes (2 of them) and 1 worm hole, but the majority ofthe culms had great power fiber. Mr. Chan didn't have a very good idea of what rodmakers look for,so I volunteered to take an afternoon and sort a few bales for himso he could get an idea of what is good, what is so - so, and whatis bad. To be honest I saw nothing I would have thrown away. Ofcourse I did see some I would have made a knock around "justfishin" rod out of, but most of it I would rate as very good to excellent.He has 4800 culms, so he shouldn't run out soon. Darryl from cadams46@juno.com Sat Nov 13 21:23:36 1999 22:23:03 EST Subject: low cost componets Well I suppose that'll teach me to shoot my mouth off before completelytrying something. I had put the cheap ferrules on a 1920's bait castingrod that came down to me and the original ferrules or what was left ofthem was a nickle plated brass cheap o. I have never casted that pole itonly hangs on my wall, and the ferrules hold it together for that anddon't look half bad. But I have to agree with you, on poles that I buildI only use the best after all it takes 2 work weeks to build one. Justmy opinion, thanks for all the coments.Sincerely,C.R. Adams from saweiss@flash.net Sat Nov 13 23:29:47 1999 Subject: Re: low cost componets I haven't made a pole yet. Just flyrods and I'm proud of them. I wish thatword could be reserved for other things than flyrods. I haven't ever seen asplit- bamboo rodmaker advertise a "pole".Steve Well I suppose that'll teach me to shoot my mouth off before completelytrying something. I had put the cheap ferrules on a 1920's bait castingrod that came down to me and the original ferrules or what was left ofthem was a nickle plated brass cheap o. I have never casted that pole itonly hangs on my wall, and the ferrules hold it together for that anddon't look half bad. But I have to agree with you, on poles that I buildI only use the best after all it takes 2 work weeks to build one. Justmy opinion, thanks for all the coments.Sincerely,C.R. Adams from m.boretti@agonet.it Sun Nov 14 08:37:46 1999 Subject: Thanks boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0071_01BF2EB6.5C6C7300" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01BF2EB6.5C6C7300 Thanks to all the listers who have send me the info about Paul whitely.Sincerely,Marco Boretti ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01BF2EB6.5C6C7300 Thanks to all the listers who havesend = about Paul whitely.Sincerely,Marco =Boretti ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01BF2EB6.5C6C7300-- from gjm80301@yahoo.com Sun Nov 14 10:47:02 1999 1999 08:47:00 PST Subject: Re: sanding sections That makes sense for the bamboo. Many, includingWayne, recommend 1000 or finer for work between finishcoats. Other thoughts? --- WILLIAM A HARMS wrote:All, There is no need whatever to go all the way down to1200-grit before varnishing cane. Any varnish will easily hide the "tooth" left from high qualitywet-or-dry 400-grit paper. Finer grits are nothingbut overkill on bamboo, accomplishing nothing in thequality of the finish. If you were dealing withwood, that would be a different matter, as wood haspores in its grain, and miniscule fibers that mayfuzz-up. Bamboo, however, causes neither of theseproblems. cheers, Bill----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Nunley Cc: Rod Makers List Serve Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 4:54 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections John,I have never had any problem with my varnishsticking to my rodsections. I have always sanded down to a 1200grit. I know on wood this isnot standard, but bamboo isn't wood....technically, it is a grass and doesreact different to varnish than wood does. I wasa violin maker before Iwas a rodmaker, and i never went finer than 600 ona violin back (maple) or400 on a top (sitka spruce) but since my firstrod, many many years ago, Ihave always gone to 1200 on my cane sections, andno trouble yet. Ofcourse, I am very meticulous in my varnishing. Ihave a dustproofvarnishing room and setup, wear latex gloves whenhandling the sectionsbefore varnishing and after thoroughly cleaningand degreasing withdenatured alcohol. On bamboo, I think the key togetting the varnish tostay on the section, isn't so much the texture ofthe surface, as it is withwood, but the cleanliness of the surface.Just my opinion, of course. Bob-----Original Message-----From: channer Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 6:22 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections At 09:18 AM 11/09/1999 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote:"" "" So, yesterday, I glued up aset of 6 unmatched scrapstrips and gave it a try this morning. At this pointmy only concern was "" If it doesscrew up as it cures, Iwill post more, if not, you won't hear from meon this again... it lookslike it is going to do great. too muchtime on my hands? LOLLater, Bob "" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rods http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htmBob;The only problem that I can forsee is that thevarnish may not stick to therod, not because of the water, but because youhave polished it too muchand the rod has no "tooth" for the varnish tostick to.Furniture finisherswill only go so fine on bare wood beforevarnishing, further polishing isdone to the coats of finish themselves as therewill also be a chemicalbond as well as a physical bond. I have strippedsome old rods that lokkedvery nice in the few places the finish was stillintact, but when I got allthe varnish off the surface looked to be sandedno finer than 150 grit. Igo finer, down to about 450(50 micron,whateverthe equivalent is) and havetested to see if I can flake the cured varnishoff with my fingernail, itstayed on very well, but I have noticed that if Igo to 1200 grit first,the varnish will come off with little effort.John ===== __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from daburns@mediaone.net Sun Nov 14 10:56:41 1999 Subject: unsubscribe Taking a brake. Please unsubscribe me for now. from brewer@teleport.com Sun Nov 14 12:49:28 1999 0000 (216.26.32.239) Subject: Fw: inking blanks. India ink can be removed with laquer thinner or acetone, or by running ascraper edge lightly on the offending text. I also practice writing on somescrap strips, but it does not seem to help my sad scrawl! -----Original Message----- Subject: inking blanks. I'm about to mark a blank, and I wondering what would work best. I'munder the impression that free handing with india ink is theconventional method, but I'd like to know if there is a way tha wouldproduce more uniform lettering. BTW, if I screw up with india ink, willit be permanent? Thanks for anay help, MAtt from EESweet@aol.com Sun Nov 14 13:06:49 1999 Subject: First Rod - Good news and bad Hi All,Thanks to everyone who sent advice on adapting my casting stroke forbamboo, it seems to have worked. By stopping the backcast stroke sooner andslowing my motions I managed to get pretty comfortable with the rod. After 15 minutes or so I was casting comfortably in the 40' range. Unfortunately,as I was extending the cast out to 50' or so there came an unusual little popping noise...yup, one of my splices let go. Near the center of the mid-section on top. This of course calls into question the integrity of all the other splices. I glued the entire rod with Gorilla Glue, a polyurethane. The splices in particular were planed and glued the same day the cane came out of theoven, leading me to believe that while there was enough moisture in the air tocure the glue, the lack of moisture in the cane itself caused a weak bond. Anyone else have a similar experience with polyurethanes? So I guess the question now is does anyone have any advice on salvagingthe ferrules and reel seat, both glued with Devcon 2-ton epoxy? Eric from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Nov 14 13:12:23 1999 Sun, 14 Nov 1999 11:12:16 -0800 Subject: Re: New source of Tonkin cane Darryl,Glad to hear that the cane looks okay. Cary was at our gathering, andseemed plenty enthusiastic. Cary had some samples with him, but one oftheguys there made off with them all without the rest of us even knowingthat hehad them. He also seems to have some sense of integrity, and I very muchappreciate that. He's got an interesting sense of humor as well! When youget down in the stockpiles of your cane and start building a rod using hiscane, let us know what you think. Harry DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: Just got back form the Bamboo Earl - Cary Chan, that's the guywith the www.bamboopoles.com web site. from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Nov 14 13:52:32 1999 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Subject: wrapping Fellow Listers wrapping with Gossamers Silk creates the following problem: The darkercoloursturn blackish when covered with marine varnish. Not wanting to use colourpreserver,does anyone of You have a solution as how to prevent the wraps fromdarkening? This one has beaten me, hope You can provide a solution. regards, Carsten from amcsmith@nlis.net Sun Nov 14 14:05:52 1999 0500 Subject: first culm split split my first culm last night, what a mess, i cutthe culm in half, split as all the books say, used theknife in vise alla howell and could not steer it forsh*# got all diff. thicknesses could not maintain asqaure edge it was piss poor.i think i have enough usefulpieces to make a 6 1/2 foot 2 piece one tip! had several adult beverages and went to bed pissed.got up this morning thought about what i did or didn't doand started in on the other 1/2, this time i left the end node in place and split to the node, this seemed to eliminatethe strips peeling off short, at the end the strips would stay together for the whole lenght of the culm so i didn't have any3' triangle pieces, i still used the knife in vise but i alsoused a dull screw driver at each node to split there, i also spentmore time cleaning out the internodel dams, this morning 's splittingworked out way better i have enough pieces for a 7613 two tip withabout 5 spare pieces.thats all folkschris smithporte me from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun Nov 14 15:39:56 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: wrapping That can't be helped on some colors of silk without color preserver suchaslacquer or shellac. If you wish to avoid using a color preserver, then youmight need to try using different colors or brands of silk. That will sometimes happen even with color preserver... how do I know? ... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com ----- Original Message ----- Subject: wrapping Fellow Listers wrapping with Gossamers Silk creates the following problem: The darkercoloursturn blackish when covered with marine varnish. Not wanting to usecolourpreserver,does anyone of You have a solution as how to prevent the wraps fromdarkening? This one has beaten me, hope You can provide a solution. regards, Carsten from gjm80301@yahoo.com Sun Nov 14 17:19:58 1999 1999 15:19:55 PST Subject: Re: wrapping I am experimenting alot with this right now. If youare afraid of color preservers, as I am, you canprevent some of the darkening by using a fast- dryingpolyurethane finish. Howell recommends Varathane 900,which is gloss. Seems to me that 1100, which issemi-gloss, would work also since these are undercoatsanyway. Minwax makes a fast-drying poly as well. You will find that thinning these will result in moredarkening since they have more time to fully absorb (Iguess). After fiddling with dozens of combinations, I havedecided that I like the evenness you get by allowingthe darkening at least partially. Also, includingsome spar varnish in the mixture seems to helplevelling and prevents the buildup you can get withthe fast dryers. It is possible to find thread colorswhich do not go "almost black" or, at the oppositeextreme, disappear. Can't wait to hear feedback from others. --- Darrell Lee wrote:That can't be helped on some colors of silk withoutcolor preserver such aslacquer or shellac. If you wish to avoid using acolor preserver, then youmight need to try using different colors or brandsof silk. That will sometimes happen even with colorpreserver... how do I know? ... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com ----- Original Message -----From: Carsten Jorgensen Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 11:55 AMSubject: wrapping Fellow Listers wrapping with Gossamers Silk creates the followingproblem: The darkercoloursturn blackish when covered with marine varnish.Not wanting to use colourpreserver,does anyone of You have a solution as how toprevent the wraps fromdarkening? This one has beaten me, hope You can provide asolution. regards, Carsten ===== __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from knflyrod@home.com Sun Nov 14 17:48:49 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Sun, 14 Nov 1999 15:48:45 -0800 Subject: Re: wrapping Carsten, I also use Varathane 900, two coats then I go direct to two coatsof my normal varnish. I have played with everything from finger nailpolishto shellac and lots of etc. This is still the best for me. Ron Huff----- Original Message ----- Subject: wrapping Fellow Listers wrapping with Gossamers Silk creates the following problem: The darkercoloursturn blackish when covered with marine varnish. Not wanting to usecolourpreserver,does anyone of You have a solution as how to prevent the wraps fromdarkening? This one has beaten me, hope You can provide a solution. regards, Carsten from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Nov 14 18:16:55 1999 [205.167.143.79] (may beforged)) Sun, 14 Nov 1999 18:16:10 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: new source of Tonkin Cane Saturday afternoon just before Mr. Chan left theSRG he offered me a bale of culms. He was leaving with him.He said they were randomly picked. Mr. Chan saidtherewere three standard grade culms and three selectgrade culms. They were still wrappedso I could not see what was in the bale. Of thesix culms, one culm in the standardgrade was not usable due to worm holes. The otherfive culms are all asgood as any one can expect. There is one selectculm and a standard culm thatwill yield 30, 1/4" strips from the butt section.They are 7 3/4" (select) and 75/8"( Std.)in circumference. All strips would beusable, with very minor marks. Most seem to be inthe enamel that is scraped off anyway. Three culmshave a couple of leaf nodes.There are some stains on a some of the culms, nomore than other culms I haveseen. This would be no problem to the maker thatflames the culms. On blond culms youmight loose a strip or two. Most of the stainsseem to be along the dryingsplit. Mr. Chan didnot have much of an idea as to what the rodmakeris looking for.I think Derryl's visit with Mr. Chan , will givehim a better insight on what rodmakers want.I have corresponded with Cary Chan on this also.Onething I did notice, theculms have heavy power fibers. I have split two ofthe culms and bothsplit straight and no problem at the nodes. I willbe splitting another culm or two in the nextcouple of weeks and will report on my findings , Idon't think it will beany different than above. I personally would haveno problem with making rods from the standard grade. In the select grade, theculms have less minordefects and are clean of worm holes and scars.I will be sharing these culms with three otherwant-to-be-rodmakers. I am in no way connected with the company otherthan Cary and I hit it off.at the SRG and made me this offer of the culms.Too long a story as to the details.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Nov 14 18:42:06 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 14 Nov 1999 18:34:27 -0600 Subject: Re: wrapping boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01BF2ECF.E78ABB40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BF2ECF.E78ABB40 I spent many hours years ago, trying different color preservers, and =finally gave up on all of them. I've been using nothing but spar =varnish, ever since. I just look for different colors, and test them, to =see how dark they turn, when saturated with varnish. I've found that I =prefer the translucent finish, and after many years, the wraps don't =crack, like they do with the color preserver underneath. I found a light =beige, that when varnished, matches the Young flamed cane color very =well, and looks very rich. GMA Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 5:48 PMSubject: Re: wrapping Carsten, I also use Varathane 900, two coats then I go direct to two =coatsof my normal varnish. I have played with everything from finger nail =polishto shellac and lots of etc. This is still the best for me. Ron Huff----- Original Message -----From: Carsten J=F8rgensen Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 1:55 PMSubject: wrapping Fellow Listers wrapping with Gossamers Silk creates the following problem: The =darkercoloursturn blackish when covered with marine varnish. Not wanting to use =colourpreserver,does anyone of You have a solution as how to prevent the wraps fromdarkening? This one has beaten me, hope You can provide a solution. regards, Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BF2ECF.E78ABB40 I spent many hours years ago, trying = preservers, and finally gave up on all of them. I've been using nothing = varnish, ever since. I just look for different colors, and test them, to = dark they turn, when saturated with varnish. I've found that I prefer = translucent finish, and after many years, the wraps don't crack, like = with the color preserver underneath. I found a light beige, that when = rich. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Ron=Huff Cc: 'RODMAKERS' Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999= PMSubject: Re: wrapping = everything from finger nail polishto shellac and lots of etc. This = =<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sunday, November 14, 1999 1:55 PMSubject: = ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BF2ECF.E78ABB40-- from caneman@clnk.com Sun Nov 14 18:46:45 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sun, 14 Nov 1999 18:45:17 -0600 Subject: Re: wrapping from the beginning, I have used a color of silk that would "clear out" ordarken to the color that I want with my standard finish (Varmor R-10). Igenerally use a china red silk and it darkens to a deep maroon. Ipersonally prefer the color, and like the fact that the silk is so readilysaturated by the varnish. This, in my opinion, makes the wraps more apartof the finish, giving them (again, just my opinion) more durability andstrength. Only problem with going to lighter colored silks, for those whowant to maintain the lighter color, is that lighter silk tends to move moretowards being clear than darkening. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: wrapping I am experimenting alot with this right now. If youare afraid of color preservers, as I am, you canprevent some of the darkening by using a fast- dryingpolyurethane finish. Howell recommends Varathane 900,which is gloss. Seems to me that 1100, which issemi-gloss, would work also since these are undercoatsanyway. Minwax makes a fast-drying poly as well. You will find that thinning these will result in moredarkening since they have more time to fully absorb (Iguess). After fiddling with dozens of combinations, I havedecided that I like the evenness you get by allowingthe darkening at least partially. Also, includingsome spar varnish in the mixture seems to helplevelling and prevents the buildup you can get withthe fast dryers. It is possible to find thread colorswhich do not go "almost black" or, at the oppositeextreme, disappear. Can't wait to hear feedback from others. --- Darrell Lee wrote:That can't be helped on some colors of silk withoutcolor preserver such aslacquer or shellac. If you wish to avoid using acolor preserver, then youmight need to try using different colors or brandsof silk. That will sometimes happen even with colorpreserver... how do I know? ... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com ----- Original Message -----From: Carsten Jorgensen Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 11:55 AMSubject: wrapping Fellow Listers wrapping with Gossamers Silk creates the followingproblem: The darkercoloursturn blackish when covered with marine varnish.Not wanting to use colourpreserver,does anyone of You have a solution as how toprevent the wraps fromdarkening? This one has beaten me, hope You can provide asolution. regards, Carsten ===== __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from jwilcox@netsync.net Sun Nov 14 18:55:46 1999 Subject: passing of a friend boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF2EDA.5DE1F1A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF2EDA.5DE1F1A0 To all of you on the list,Guys, I just returned from a hunting trip today and my wife =informed me that my friend and our fellow rodmaker, Jerry Quinn, had =passed away. I will miss his company. We have lost a friend and a =talented new rodmaker whose new skills were just beginning to bloom. =I'm sure his wife Linda and family would appreciate a note from some of =Jerry's rodbuilding friends. Her address is Linda Quinn, 228 Rte. 394, =Kennedy, New York 14747. Regards, Jim Wilcox, Fredonia, NY ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF2EDA.5DE1F1A0 To all of you on the =list, = from a hunting trip today and my wife informed me that my friend and our= have lost a friend and a talented new rodmaker whose new skills were = Fredonia, NY ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF2EDA.5DE1F1A0-- from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sun Nov 14 18:56:23 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: wrapping Here's a way to get the vivid color without color preserver. The hobbystores carry a wide variety of different paints in one to two oz sizes.You can get everything from dope (like finger nail polish), to oil basedenamel to acrylic enamel. The water based acrylic enamel seems to workbest and comes in about a million different colors. Measure and mask offthe area where the wraps will be. Scotch tape or electrical tape worksbetter than masking tape for this application. Paint (an air brush worksgreat) the area where the wraps will be. When the color is satisfactory,let dry and remove the masking. You can paint on a coat of clear modelairplane dope to make the acrylic enamel surface harder. Wrap your guidesas normal and finish as you wish. The transparency caused by varnishingthe thread will allow the color from the acrylic enamel to show through.The price for the paint runs from about $5 an oz for artist grade down toabout 50 cents for hobby grade. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 01:39 PM 11/14/99 -0800, Darrell Lee wrote:That can't be helped on some colors of silk without color preserver suchaslacquer or shellac. If you wish to avoid using a color preserver, then youmight need to try using different colors or brands of silk. That will sometimes happen even with color preserver... how do I know?... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com ----- Original Message -----From: Carsten Jorgensen Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 11:55 AMSubject: wrapping Fellow Listers wrapping with Gossamers Silk creates the following problem: Thedarkercoloursturn blackish when covered with marine varnish. Not wanting to usecolourpreserver,does anyone of You have a solution as how to prevent the wraps fromdarkening? This one has beaten me, hope You can provide a solution. regards, Carsten from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Sun Nov 14 19:31:51 1999 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: First Rod - Good news and bad Hi Eric,it is possible to repair popped splices. I haven't had to do itmyself yet but I've been told that you insert pins into the gap to hold itopen while you inject your preferred glue into it. Apparently you can getquite a neat repair done.Is Gorilla Glue the one that foams a little while setting? I'msure I can remember someone on the list having reservations about usingit.There were some technical reasons which sounded reasonably convincingat thetime. Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: First Rod - Good news and bad I was extending the cast out to 50' or so there came an unusual little popping noise...yup, one of my splices let go. a weak bond. So I guess the question now is does anyone have any advice on salvagingthe ferrules and reel seat, both glued with Devcon 2-ton epoxy? Eric from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Nov 14 19:45:20 1999 (may be forged)) Subject: Re: wrapping I want to add, The first and second coats were wiped off removing most ofthe liquid withadust free cloth before they started drying enough to smear. I did not havethe threadlineslike I did on the first two rods that took so much time to fill sand andclean up. Thewrapsare very smooth and look they are varnished. Only time will tell how itwill hold up.Gudebrod says it will not yellow , chip or crack.On these rods I used 00 thread.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Carsten,I just finished wrapping two rods wraps on thefirst two rods that I compleated. Gudebrod gave me a sample of their rodfinish. It isWater base, Clear and no odor. It dries to the touch in a few minuets. Iam told it isnota color preserver. I didfind that when I applied it, the colors did darken as I wanted them to butwhen dry,thecolors were only faintly darker. I put four thinned coats on and it lookslike aboutthesame as four coats of varnish. This morning I wiped them down withdenatured alcoholandit took the high shine off the wraps. They really look good. Don't have thefake epoxylook either. I did sand the wraps after the third coat with 2000 gritpaper. It onlytook a few strokes on each wrap to smooth them up. I am getting readyto dip them. Ithink this saved me a lot of work and drying time. I will give you areport after Ifinish the varnish.It is called Gudebrod Rod Finish.It comes in Regular Build and Light Build.Tony Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Fellow Listers wrapping with Gossamers Silk creates the following problem: Thedarker coloursturn blackish when covered with marine varnish. Not wanting to usecolour preserver,does anyone of You have a solution as how to prevent the wraps fromdarkening? This one has beaten me, hope You can provide a solution. regards, Carsten from KPres375@aol.com Sun Nov 14 19:50:49 1999 Subject: wrapping &color preservation Folks -If you are going to underwrap or are going to paint under the wraps why not try either white silk under the color you want to see (no color preserver) or use flat silver or flat gold thread (actually mylar) that's available from most sewing centers? I've used it on saltwater rods and it works really well - throws all the color of the thread back at you. The brand that I've had success with is "Ackermann" and is made in Germany the product line is "metallischer" - mostly it's used for accent color on needle point projects. Ken Prestonhttp://kensfishingrods.com from EESweet@aol.com Sun Nov 14 20:04:01 1999 Subject: Re: First Rod - Good news and bad Hi Mike,I've been thinking about trying the repair since the breaks are so clean, but don't know if others would also let go in time. I'd hate to be patching this thing together over it's lifetime. Also, I was far enough off in my planing that I significantly changed the action and would like to build the rod as it was intended. That said, I'm loath to take it apart, for purely sentimental reasons. Gorilla Glue is one of the ones that foams, and since the "incident" I've searched the archives (again) and found both good and bad reports. I went with it for the typical reasons, waterproof and more heat resistant than Titebond II. Obviously not the best choice in retrospect. Live and learn. Just one of the many mistakes made during the construction of this rodthat won't be repeated on the next one.Eric Hi Eric,it is possible to repair popped splices. I haven't had to do itmyself yet but I've been told that you insert pins into the gap to hold itopen while you inject your preferred glue into it. Apparently you cangetquite a neat repair done.Is Gorilla Glue the one that foams a little while setting? I'msure I can remember someone on the list having reservations aboutusing it.There were some technical reasons which sounded reasonablyconvincing at thetime. Mike from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Sun Nov 14 23:29:52 1999 (5.5.2448.0) "Roberts, Michael",rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: First Rod - Good news and bad Eric,what about repairing the failed splice with Titebond II or somethingsimilar and then treating the whole rod to intermediate wraps whichwouldtake a bit of the strain off the other splices.All of my splice joints are done with Titebond II and the completedstrips are glued up with Resourcinol. The two rods I've completed so farhave a total of about 150 splices and not one has failed (yet). This isdespite the fact that I have given both of them a thorough thrashingincluding double hauling to the point of throwing a complete line and somebacking. Before someone tells me off for abusing a cane rod I must saythatI've only done this to make sure that my rods are strong enough for me tobeconfident about accepting money for one if that ever happens.Your first rod is like a "rite of passage" and I, like you Eric,would be loathe to pull mine to bits for the same reasons. Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: First Rod - Good news and bad Hi Mike,I've been thinking about trying the repair since the breaks are so clean,but don't know if others would also let go in time. I'd hate to be patchingthis thing together over it's lifetime. Also, I was far enough off in my planing that I significantly changed the action and would like to build the rod asit was intended. That said, I'm loath to take it apart, for purely sentimental reasons. Gorilla Glue is one of the ones that foams, and since the "incident" I've searched the archives (again) and found both good and bad reports. I went with it for the typical reasons, waterproof and more heat resistant than Titebond II. Obviously not the best choice in retrospect. Live and learn. Just one of the many mistakes made during the construction of this rodthat won't be repeated on the next one.Eric Hi Eric,it is possible to repair popped splices. I haven't had to do itmyself yet but I've been told that you insert pins into the gap to holditopen while you inject your preferred glue into it. Apparently you cangetquite a neat repair done.Is Gorilla Glue the one that foams a little while setting? I'msure I can remember someone on the list having reservations aboutusingit.There were some technical reasons which sounded reasonablyconvincing at thetime. Mike from EESweet@aol.com Mon Nov 15 01:10:40 1999 Subject: Re: First Rod - Good news and bad Mike,I thought about repairing with Titebond II, but I'm wondering if it'll provide a strong bond on joints that are essentially coated with polyurethane. Any thoughts? How do you like the Resourcinol as far as working time and ease of use are concerned? It's a one part glue isn't it? The biggest dissapointment about this (besides having my very firstattempt fail so quickly) is that I'm leaving for a week in New Zealand (well, almost a week...new job, not enough vacation, etc.) tomorrow and I won't be ableto fish it with MY rod. Talk about a downer.Eric Eric,what about repairing the failed splice with Titebond II or somethingsimilar and then treating the whole rod to intermediate wraps whichwouldtake a bit of the strain off the other splices.All of my splice joints are done with Titebond II and the completedstrips are glued up with Resourcinol. The two rods I've completed so farhave a total of about 150 splices and not one has failed (yet). This isdespite the fact that I have given both of them a thorough thrashingincluding double hauling to the point of throwing a complete line andsomebacking. Before someone tells me off for abusing a cane rod I must say thatI've only done this to make sure that my rods are strong enough for meto beconfident about accepting money for one if that ever happens.Your first rod is like a "rite of passage" and I, like you Eric,would be loathe to pull mine to bits for the same reasons. Mike from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Mon Nov 15 01:50:44 1999 (5.5.2448.0) "Roberts, Michael",rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: First Rod - Good news and bad Eric,I'd give the Titebond II a go. You've got nothing to lose afterall. Maybe bind over it with white silk which will turn clear when youvarnish it.Resourcinol is a two part glue (liquid glue, powder hardener) whichsome people don't like because of its maroon/wine red colour. I love itbecause it is totally waterproof, highly heat resistant and stronger than asteel rivet. I've tested the stuff to extreme lengths and it will tearlumps out of wood and bamboo but the joins have never failed. Temperaturesaround fifteen degrees Celsius are ideal for an hour or so of working time.A few degrees either way aren't critical. Ten degrees or below renderstheglue unworkable while twenty degrees or so cuts your working timedramatically.I use Titebond II for the splices because it is invisible andResourcinol for gluing up the strips because of it's strength...and I likethe thin dark line at the corners of the hexagon. Some people say(correctly) that the dark glue will exagerate sloppy planing. My responseto that is: If you do the job properly, you shouldn't have to hide anything.If you've still got a week, stick that rod back together (usechewing gum if you have to), give it a few intermediate wraps and takethebloody thing with with you. You'll kick yourself if you don't. Mike Mike,I thought about repairing with Titebond II, but I'm wondering if it'll provide a strong bond on joints that are essentially coated with polyurethane. Any thoughts? How do you like the Resourcinol as far as working time and ease of use are concerned? It's a one part glue isn't it? The biggest dissapointment about this (besides having my very firstattempt fail so quickly) is that I'm leaving for a week in New Zealand (well, almost a week...new job, not enough vacation, etc.) tomorrow and I won't be ableto fish it with MY rod. Talk about a downer.Eric from haerbob@mindspring.com Mon Nov 15 04:03:23 1999 Subject: unscribe boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C4_01BF2EE2.344E5A60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01BF2EE2.344E5A60 unscribe ------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01BF2EE2.344E5A60 unscribe ------=_NextPart_000_00C4_01BF2EE2.344E5A60-- from mrmac@tcimet.net Mon Nov 15 05:09:31 1999 rodmakers Subject: Re: first culm split Chris, as a newbie myself, I sure can sympathize with your struggle onthe first attempt. What worked real well for me to make the second halfthe culm work like magic was the suggestion I read on the list that yousteer the culm by bending the fat side. On my first half, I triednudging, pushing, and all the things I had read, talking to it with myfull vocabulary (to no avail). BUT! After a search through the list, Itried using my Black and Decker Workmate jobbydo to clamp the knife, andused the "dog" things to provide something to support the back end oftheculm as I bent the fat side. By pulling the culm and watching the sizeof the two sides, when one side would start to get fatter, I would pullthat side "out" (away from the knife), which forces the rest of the culmbehind the knife into and against the "dog" on the other side. Thesplitgoes back into alignment and it was almost too easy. I got the"regulation" 24 strips from the top half with no problem-o, after barelygetting enough to to the butt from the whole lower half culm. Keeping in mind this is from all of one whole culm worth of experience,maybe I have some more difficult experiences ahead, but this worked realwell for me, and is one of the reasons for staying close to the list.I'm not sure who's the source of this nifty trick, but it worked like achamp for me, and I thank them for their insight. It was almost *fun*!(scary, isn't it?) If you use fixed width font, this picture might give you a better idea: | || |o| |o as you're pulling it through Pull culm from this end I hope this helps you as much as it did me. Good luck. mac chris & annmarie smith wrote: split my first culm last night, what a mess, i cutthe culm in half, split as all the books say, used theknife in vise alla howell and could not steer it forsh*# got all diff. thicknesses could not maintain asqaure edge it was piss poor.i think i have enough usefulpieces to make a 6 1/2 foot 2 piece one tip! had severaladult beverages and went to bed pissed. chris smithporte me from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Nov 15 06:43:12 1999 Subject: Re: wrapping Interesting, Bob. When I use Chinese Red with Varthane, spar varnish, anda couple of other polyurethane, it remains bright red (or even brighter!)but becomes translucent (transparent? whatever) and the guide feet showthrough clearly.J. Snider. At 06:44 PM 11/14/1999 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: from the beginning, I have used a color of silk that would "clear out" ordarken to the color that I want with my standard finish (Varmor R-10). Igenerally use a china red silk and it darkens to a deep maroon. Ipersonally prefer the color, and like the fact that the silk is so readilysaturated by the varnish. This, in my opinion, makes the wraps more apartof the finish, giving them (again, just my opinion) more durability andstrength. Only problem with going to lighter colored silks, for those whowant to maintain the lighter color, is that lighter silk tends to movemoretowards being clear than darkening. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Jerry Madigan Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 5:25 PMSubject: Re: wrapping I am experimenting alot with this right now. If youare afraid of color preservers, as I am, you canprevent some of the darkening by using a fast- dryingpolyurethane finish. Howell recommends Varathane 900,which is gloss. Seems to me that 1100, which issemi-gloss, would work also since these are undercoatsanyway. Minwax makes a fast-drying poly as well. You will find that thinning these will result in moredarkening since they have more time to fully absorb (Iguess). After fiddling with dozens of combinations, I havedecided that I like the evenness you get by allowingthe darkening at least partially. Also, includingsome spar varnish in the mixture seems to helplevelling and prevents the buildup you can get withthe fast dryers. It is possible to find thread colorswhich do not go "almost black" or, at the oppositeextreme, disappear. Can't wait to hear feedback from others. --- Darrell Lee wrote:That can't be helped on some colors of silk withoutcolor preserver such aslacquer or shellac. If you wish to avoid using acolor preserver, then youmight need to try using different colors or brandsof silk. That will sometimes happen even with colorpreserver... how do I know? ... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com ----- Original Message -----From: Carsten Jorgensen Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 11:55 AMSubject: wrapping Fellow Listers wrapping with Gossamers Silk creates the followingproblem: The darkercoloursturn blackish when covered with marine varnish.Not wanting to use colourpreserver,does anyone of You have a solution as how toprevent the wraps fromdarkening? This one has beaten me, hope You can provide asolution. regards, Carsten ===== __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from HARMS1@prodigy.net Mon Nov 15 07:18:08 1999 Mon, 15 Nov 1999 08:17:47 -0500 Subject: Re: sanding sections boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF2F41.50414DE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF2F41.50414DE0 Jerry, If you allow adequate drying time between coats (at least three days), =there's no need to use anything finer than 400-grit (if wet-sanded with =mineral spirits), or 600-grit (if dry-sanded). The varnish, whether =dipped or brushed, will easily fill the "scratch" left by the grit of =these papers. You can use 1000-grit or finer, of course, but you are =only wasting your time. An optimal sanding procedure is one that =efficiently levels off the offending particles--leaving behind only the =amount of "tooth" that can be filled (and obscured) by the next coat, = Now, in preparing for final polishing, you would want to finish with =something like 2000-grit wet-sand. But this is a different situation. cheers, Bill Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 8:47 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections That makes sense for the bamboo. Many, includingWayne, recommend 1000 or finer for work between finishcoats. Other thoughts? --- WILLIAM A HARMS wrote:All, There is no need whatever to go all the way down to will easily hide the "tooth" left from high qualitywet-or-dry 400-grit paper. Finer grits are nothingbut overkill on bamboo, accomplishing nothing in thequality of the finish. If you were dealing withwood, that would be a different matter, as wood haspores in its grain, and miniscule fibers that mayfuzz-up. Bamboo, however, causes neither of theseproblems. cheers, Bill Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 4:54 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections John,I have never had any problem with my varnishsticking to my rodsections. I have always sanded down to a 1200grit. I know on wood this isnot standard, but bamboo isn't wood....technically, it is a grass and doesreact different to varnish than wood does. I wasa violin maker before Iwas a rodmaker, and i never went finer than 600 ona violin back (maple) or400 on a top (sitka spruce) but since my firstrod, many many years ago, Ihave always gone to 1200 on my cane sections, andno trouble yet. Ofcourse, I am very meticulous in my varnishing. Ihave a dustproofvarnishing room and setup, wear latex gloves whenhandling the sectionsbefore varnishing and after thoroughly cleaningand degreasing withdenatured alcohol. On bamboo, I think the key togetting the varnish tostay on the section, isn't so much the texture ofthe surface, as it is withwood, but the cleanliness of the surface.Just my opinion, of course. Bob-----Original Message-----From: channer Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 6:22 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections At 09:18 AM 11/09/1999 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote:"" "" So, yesterday, I glued up aset of 6 unmatched scrap At this pointmy only concern was "" If it doesscrew up as it cures, Iwill post more, if not, you won't hear from meon this again... it lookslike it is going to do great. too muchtime on my hands? LOLLater, Bob "" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rods http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htmBob;The only problem that I can forsee is that thevarnish may not stick to therod, not because of the water, but because youhave polished it too muchand the rod has no "tooth" for the varnish tostick to.Furniture finisherswill only go so fine on bare wood beforevarnishing, further polishing isdone to the coats of finish themselves as therewill also be a chemicalbond as well as a physical bond. I have strippedsome old rods that lokkedvery nice in the few places the finish was stillintact, but when I got allthe varnish off the surface looked to be sandedno finer than 150 grit. Igo finer, down to about 450(50 micron,whateverthe equivalent is) and havetested to see if I can flake the cured varnishoff with my fingernail, itstayed on very well, but I have noticed that if Igo to 1200 grit first,the varnish will come off with little effort.John =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF2F41.50414DE0 Jerry, If you allowadequate = between coats (at least three days), there's no need to use anything = Now, in preparing Bill ----- Original Message ----- Jerry = = Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999= AMSubject: Re: sanding =sections Re: = any = = cleanliness of the = <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= AM = = = = my = ==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D______________________________________= You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF2F41.50414DE0-- from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Nov 15 07:35:51 1999 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id HAA05869 for; (8.8.4/8.6.8) withSMTP id HAA03047 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 1999 Subject: Re: First Rod - Good news and bad Eric,With the gorilla glue on the splices, I'd use something like epoxy torepair. I don't think Titebond will penetrate the old glue coating enough to provide a secure bond. With me, my first rod which was spliced with Urac eventually failedat a splice. Since then I've used Gorilla glue with no problems. Gofigure. (I do wet one side of the splice and put glue on the other.)......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Sun, 14 Nov 1999 EESweet@aol.com wrote: Hi Mike,I've been thinking about trying the repair since the breaks are so clean,but don't know if others would also let go in time. I'd hate to be patchingthis thing together over it's lifetime. Also, I was far enough off in myplaning that I significantly changed the action and would like to build the rod asit was intended. That said, I'm loath to take it apart, for purely reasons. Gorilla Glue is one of the ones that foams, and since the "incident" I've searched the archives (again) and found both good and bad reports. Iwent with it for the typical reasons, waterproof and more heat resistant than Titebond II. Obviously not the best choice in retrospect. Live and learn. Just one of the many mistakes made during the construction of this rodthat won't be repeated on the next one.Eric from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Nov 15 08:01:28 1999 [12.10.111.105] (may be forged)) Mon, 15 Nov 1999 08:00:26 -0600 rodmakers Subject: Re: first culm split I find that after I start the split and get it down about 5" I can put thesplit against the corner of a 4x4 post in my shop and push as I work theblade through the split. You can put a lot of body weight against the "Fat"side that way. Another thing, this I learned from the first culm. Split theculm in halves or thirds then halves and thirds again till the strips arethe size you want. I wanted to save the part of the culm that I was notgoing to use in one piece. I tried to just split the individual strips Ineeded from the wide section, it was a disaster. The blade needs to bekeptvertical with the outer part of the culm and not have it lean to one side oranother.On splitting narrow strips it is just a matter of feel and the pressure onthe "fat" side can be done with the back of the blade as the splitprogresses. I can now consistently get 24 and 32 strips from a culm.I am far from being an expert but this works for me.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Ralph MacKenzie wrote: Chris, as a newbie myself, I sure can sympathize with your struggle onthe first attempt. What worked real well for me to make the second halfthe culm work like magic was the suggestion I read on the list that yousteer the culm by bending the fat side. On my first half, I triednudging, pushing, and all the things I had read, talking to it with myfull vocabulary (to no avail). BUT! After a search through the list, Itried using my Black and Decker Workmate jobbydo to clamp the knife,andused the "dog" things to provide something to support the back end oftheculm as I bent the fat side. By pulling the culm and watching the sizeof the two sides, when one side would start to get fatter, I would pullthat side "out" (away from the knife), which forces the rest of the culmbehind the knife into and against the "dog" on the other side. Thesplitgoes back into alignment and it was almost too easy. I got the"regulation" 24 strips from the top half with no problem-o, after barelygetting enough to to the butt from the whole lower half culm. Keeping in mind this is from all of one whole culm worth of experience,maybe I have some more difficult experiences ahead, but this workedrealwell for me, and is one of the reasons for staying close to the list.I'm not sure who's the source of this nifty trick, but it worked like achamp for me, and I thank them for their insight. It was almost *fun*!(scary, isn't it?) If you use fixed width font, this picture might give you a better idea: | || |o| |o | ||^| knife|||||| If this side gets "fat", then pull/bend "out"just this side to the right -> as you're pulling it through Pull culm from this end I hope this helps you as much as it did me. Good luck. mac chris & annmarie smith wrote: split my first culm last night, what a mess, i cutthe culm in half, split as all the books say, used theknife in vise alla howell and could not steer it forsh*# got all diff. thicknesses could not maintain asqaure edge it was piss poor.i think i have enough usefulpieces to make a 6 1/2 foot 2 piece one tip! had severaladult beverages and went to bed pissed. chris smithporte me from EESweet@aol.com Mon Nov 15 08:42:31 1999 Subject: Re: First Rod - Good news and bad Mike,I think I will try the repair when I get back, but I must have worded mytrip plans poorly (no surprise there). I'm leaving today for a week in New Zealand so no time to repair. It's funny actually, I've often read on the list advice against hurrying as it almost always results in mistakes being made. I did nothing but hurry with this rod in order to have it done in time And look where I am now! Somehow the irony seems to have softened theblow... Anyway, I'll soon be, sortof, in your neck of the woods, hope you've gotsome nice weather for me! Eric Eric,I'd give the Titebond II a go. You've got nothing to lose afterall. Maybe bind over it with white silk which will turn clear when youvarnish it.Resourcinol is a two part glue (liquid glue, powder hardener) which> some people don't like because of its maroon/wine red colour. I love itbecause it is totally waterproof, highly heat resistant and strongerthan asteel rivet. I've tested the stuff to extreme lengths and it will tearlumps out of wood and bamboo but the joins have never failed. Temperaturesaround fifteen degrees Celsius are ideal for an hour or so of workingtime.A few degrees either way aren't critical. Ten degrees or below renderstheglue unworkable while twenty degrees or so cuts your working timedramatically.I use Titebond II for the splices because it is invisible andResourcinol for gluing up the strips because of it's strength...and I likethe thin dark line at the corners of the hexagon. Some people say(correctly) that the dark glue will exagerate sloppy planing. Myresponseto that is: If you do the job properly, you shouldn't have to hide anything.If you've still got a week, stick that rod back together (usechewing gum if you have to), give it a few intermediate wraps and takethebloody thing with with you. You'll kick yourself if you don't. Mike from EESweet@aol.com Mon Nov 15 08:52:16 1999 Subject: Re: First Rod - Good news and bad Frank,Needless to say I didn't wet one side of the splice and look at me now :- (. What do you do when you're gluing up the blank, wet all the splines? Bythe way, thanks so much for webHexrod, it was great both for converting the 2- piece taper and running my final measurements to see how close myrod's stress curve was to what I was shooting for. Great tool. Eric Eric,With the gorilla glue on the splices, I'd use something like epoxy torepair. I don't think Titebond will penetrate the old glue coating enough to provide a secure bond. With me, my first rod which was spliced with Urac eventually failedat a splice. Since then I've used Gorilla glue with no problems. Gofigure. (I do wet one side of the splice and put glue on the other.)......................................................................Frank Stetzer from caneman@clnk.com Mon Nov 15 09:15:48 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 15 Nov 1999 09:14:18 -0600 Subject: Re: wrapping Jerry,It may be just the way our different varnishes affect the silk. TheVarmor is very slow drying and I retard it further by adding about 5%Mineral Spirits to my mix for the wraps. This insures maximumpenetrationof the wraps and insures that they "become one" with my base coats ofvarnish. Bob -----Original Message----- ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: wrapping Interesting, Bob. When I use Chinese Red with Varthane, spar varnish, anda couple of other polyurethane, it remains bright red (or even brighter!)but becomes translucent (transparent? whatever) and the guide feet showthrough clearly.J. Snider. At 06:44 PM 11/14/1999 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: from the beginning, I have used a color of silk that would "clear out" ordarken to the color that I want with my standard finish (Varmor R-10). Igenerally use a china red silk and it darkens to a deep maroon. Ipersonally prefer the color, and like the fact that the silk is so readilysaturated by the varnish. This, in my opinion, makes the wraps more apartof the finish, giving them (again, just my opinion) more durability andstrength. Only problem with going to lighter colored silks, for those whowant to maintain the lighter color, is that lighter silk tends to movemoretowards being clear than darkening. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Jerry Madigan Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 5:25 PMSubject: Re: wrapping I am experimenting alot with this right now. If youare afraid of color preservers, as I am, you canprevent some of the darkening by using a fast- dryingpolyurethane finish. Howell recommends Varathane 900,which is gloss. Seems to me that 1100, which issemi-gloss, would work also since these are undercoatsanyway. Minwax makes a fast-drying poly as well. You will find that thinning these will result in moredarkening since they have more time to fully absorb (Iguess). After fiddling with dozens of combinations, I havedecided that I like the evenness you get by allowingthe darkening at least partially. Also, includingsome spar varnish in the mixture seems to helplevelling and prevents the buildup you can get withthe fast dryers. It is possible to find thread colorswhich do not go "almost black" or, at the oppositeextreme, disappear. Can't wait to hear feedback from others. --- Darrell Lee wrote:That can't be helped on some colors of silk withoutcolor preserver such aslacquer or shellac. If you wish to avoid using acolor preserver, then youmight need to try using different colors or brandsof silk. That will sometimes happen even with colorpreserver... how do I know? ... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com ----- Original Message -----From: Carsten Jorgensen Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 11:55 AMSubject: wrapping Fellow Listers wrapping with Gossamers Silk creates the followingproblem: The darkercoloursturn blackish when covered with marine varnish.Not wanting to use colourpreserver,does anyone of You have a solution as how toprevent the wraps fromdarkening? This one has beaten me, hope You can provide asolution. regards, Carsten ===== __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Nov 15 09:18:24 1999 Subject: Re: first culm split The Garrison method of splitting as shown in "The Book"is the most difficult way to split that I have seen.It's a lot easier to split a strip in half. Split inhalves as much as you can. For 32 tip strips it's2-4-8-16-32, halves all the way. For butt strips (24)you have to go into thirds at some point. I do it on ahalf culm. Split the bottom half of a culm in halflengthwise , then do each half into thirds, 2-6-12-24.Don't get frustrated, take your time and you will besplitting like a pro in a culm or two.Darryl from caneman@clnk.com Mon Nov 15 09:31:49 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 15 Nov 1999 09:30:17 -0600 Subject: Re: sanding sections boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF2F4B.E07CEF40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF2F4B.E07CEF40 Well, maybe it is a waste of time, but at an average of about $400 per =section, I guess I'll keep on wasting my time. My customers sure seem = Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: WILLIAM A HARMS rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 7:21 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections Jerry, If you allow adequate drying time between coats (at least three =days), there's no need to use anything finer than 400-grit (if =wet-sanded with mineral spirits), or 600-grit (if dry-sanded). The =varnish, whether dipped or brushed, will easily fill the "scratch" left = but you are only wasting your time. An optimal sanding procedure is one =that efficiently levels off the offending particles--leaving behind only =the amount of "tooth" that can be filled (and obscured) by the next = Now, in preparing for final polishing, you would want to finish with =something like 2000-grit wet-sand. But this is a different situation. cheers, Bill Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 8:47 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections That makes sense for the bamboo. Many, includingWayne, recommend 1000 or finer for work between finishcoats. Other thoughts? --- WILLIAM A HARMS wrote:All, There is no need whatever to go all the way down to will easily hide the "tooth" left from high qualitywet-or-dry 400-grit paper. Finer grits are nothingbut overkill on bamboo, accomplishing nothing in thequality of the finish. If you were dealing withwood, that would be a different matter, as wood haspores in its grain, and miniscule fibers that mayfuzz-up. Bamboo, however, causes neither of theseproblems. cheers, Bill Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 4:54 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections John,I have never had any problem with my varnishsticking to my rodsections. I have always sanded down to a 1200grit. I know on wood this isnot standard, but bamboo isn't wood....technically, it is a grass and doesreact different to varnish than wood does. I wasa violin maker before Iwas a rodmaker, and i never went finer than 600 ona violin back (maple) or400 on a top (sitka spruce) but since my firstrod, many many years ago, Ihave always gone to 1200 on my cane sections, andno trouble yet. Ofcourse, I am very meticulous in my varnishing. Ihave a dustproofvarnishing room and setup, wear latex gloves whenhandling the sectionsbefore varnishing and after thoroughly cleaningand degreasing withdenatured alcohol. On bamboo, I think the key togetting the varnish tostay on the section, isn't so much the texture ofthe surface, as it is withwood, but the cleanliness of the surface.Just my opinion, of course. Bob-----Original Message-----From: channer Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 6:22 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections At 09:18 AM 11/09/1999 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote:"" "" So, yesterday, I glued up aset of 6 unmatched scrap At this pointmy only concern was "" If it doesscrew up as it cures, Iwill post more, if not, you won't hear from meon this again... it lookslike it is going to do great. too muchtime on my hands? LOLLater, Bob "" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rods http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htmBob;The only problem that I can forsee is that thevarnish may not stick to therod, not because of the water, but because youhave polished it too muchand the rod has no "tooth" for the varnish tostick to.Furniture finisherswill only go so fine on bare wood beforevarnishing, further polishing isdone to the coats of finish themselves as therewill also be a chemicalbond as well as a physical bond. I have strippedsome old rods that lokkedvery nice in the few places the finish was stillintact, but when I got allthe varnish off the surface looked to be sandedno finer than 150 grit. Igo finer, down to about 450(50 micron,whateverthe equivalent is) and havetested to see if I can flake the cured varnishoff with my fingernail, itstayed on very well, but I have noticed that if Igo to 1200 grit first,the varnish will come off with little effort.John =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF2F4B.E07CEF40 Well, maybe it is a waste of time,= average of about $400 per section, I guess I'll keep on wasting my = Later,Bob -----Original = gjm80301@yahoo.com rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, November 15, 1999 7:21 AMSubject: Re: sanding= sectionsJerry, If you allow = time between coats (at least three days), there's no need to use = finer than 400-grit (if wet-sanded with mineral spirits), or = adhesion. Now, inpreparing = situation. Bill ----- Original Message ----- = Madigan Sent: Sunday, November = 8:47 AMSubject: Re: sanding =sections cleanliness of the = <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= = try this = = = ==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D______________________________________= You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF2F4B.E07CEF40-- from dati@selway.umt.edu Mon Nov 15 09:47:12 1999 08:47:08 -0700 Subject: oak planing forms I have heard that maple is the wood of choice for planing forms. I have acouple of six foot pieces of red oak; will red oak work? I just finisheda planing form out of hickory but it was a little short. So, when afriend gave me the oak, I thought that making a longer spare set ofplaning forms would be to my advantage. Why is maple the choice wood, is it because of the long straight grain oris it just harder than oak? Thanks for your time. Darin Law from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Nov 15 10:19:45 1999 8:26:35 PST Subject: Re: New source of Tonkin cane Darryl, Did Mr. Chan say where the bamboo came from? Is he an importer or a grower? Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Nov 15 10:20:30 1999 Subject: Re: wrapping It must be the varnish. My first coat is usually diluted by 30% to insurepenetration. I have used ca. 6 different types of varnish on manydifferent colors of silk and also different sizes. Of the six varnishes Ihave used, including spar varnish, tan becomes beige, beige becomescopper,copper to dk. brn, dk. brn to chestnut, chestnut to (almost) black. etc.Burgundy turns very dk. Bright orange, orange and yellow to softtransparent colors, white of course becomes transparent. All reds I haveused have remained just that, red. I also tried 3/0 copper which turned todk. brn. but in larger sizes turned chestnut. And of course, with thetransparent nature of the thread, each was affected by the color of thebamboo on which it was used--heavily flamed vs med. flamed vs noflaming. Ican't tell you the amount of time I have spent trying to determine colorsof threads under different conditions. Likely the experienced rodbuilders will have better insight re the above.J. Snider At 07:12 AM 11/15/1999 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote:Jerry,It may be just the way our different varnishes affect the silk. TheVarmor is very slow drying and I retard it further by adding about 5%Mineral Spirits to my mix for the wraps. This insures maximumpenetrationof the wraps and insures that they "become one" with my base coats ofvarnish. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Jerry Snider ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 6:48 AMSubject: Re: wrapping Interesting, Bob. When I use Chinese Red with Varthane, spar varnish, anda couple of other polyurethane, it remains bright red (or even brighter!)but becomes translucent (transparent? whatever) and the guide feet showthrough clearly.J. Snider. At 06:44 PM 11/14/1999 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: from the beginning, I have used a color of silk that would "clear out" ordarken to the color that I want with my standard finish (Varmor R-10). Igenerally use a china red silk and it darkens to a deep maroon. Ipersonally prefer the color, and like the fact that the silk is so readilysaturated by the varnish. This, in my opinion, makes the wraps more apartof the finish, giving them (again, just my opinion) more durability andstrength. Only problem with going to lighter colored silks, for thosewhowant to maintain the lighter color, is that lighter silk tends to movemoretowards being clear than darkening. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Jerry Madigan Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 5:25 PMSubject: Re: wrapping I am experimenting alot with this right now. If youare afraid of color preservers, as I am, you canprevent some of the darkening by using a fast- dryingpolyurethane finish. Howell recommends Varathane 900,which is gloss. Seems to me that 1100, which issemi-gloss, would work also since these are undercoatsanyway. Minwax makes a fast-drying poly as well. You will find that thinning these will result in moredarkening since they have more time to fully absorb (Iguess). After fiddling with dozens of combinations, I havedecided that I like the evenness you get by allowingthe darkening at least partially. Also, includingsome spar varnish in the mixture seems to helplevelling and prevents the buildup you can get withthe fast dryers. It is possible to find thread colorswhich do not go "almost black" or, at the oppositeextreme, disappear. Can't wait to hear feedback from others. --- Darrell Lee wrote:That can't be helped on some colors of silk withoutcolor preserver such aslacquer or shellac. If you wish to avoid using acolor preserver, then youmight need to try using different colors or brandsof silk. That will sometimes happen even with colorpreserver... how do I know? ... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com ----- Original Message -----From: Carsten Jorgensen Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 11:55 AMSubject: wrapping Fellow Listers wrapping with Gossamers Silk creates the followingproblem: The darkercoloursturn blackish when covered with marine varnish.Not wanting to use colourpreserver,does anyone of You have a solution as how toprevent the wraps fromdarkening? This one has beaten me, hope You can provide asolution. regards, Carsten ===== __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from brewer@teleport.com Mon Nov 15 10:39:11 1999 "hamachi"via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAA0xAq37; Mon Nov 1508:39:01 1999 Subject: application of color preserver I would like to ask the list for some advice regarding the proper use ofcolor preserver. When I use color preserver (I use Gudebrod), there seemstobe no way for me to predict whether or not the varnish will bleed through.Ihave had wraps that came out fine with two coats of color preserver andothers with four coats that bleed through. I have taken to applying some varnish on the wraps prior to dipping (alittle trick Chris McDowell taught me), but this is only helps to detectbleed through prior to dipping the whole rod. I have even had one look goodafter one coat of varnish and then bleed through after dipping! Is there a fool-proof method? Randy Brewerbrewer@teleport.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Nov 15 10:43:20 1999 Mon, 15 Nov 1999 08:43:04 -0800 Subject: Re: oak planing forms Darin,Before making a set of steel forms, I used both oak and maple. I wasnever successful with the red oak. The gum lines were so large thatconsistent depth of the groove for tips was too difficult. Since that time,others have told me that they used red oak with good results. Go figure,huh? The forms I made from maple seemed to work just fine, but I neverfelt Ihad the accuracy or consistency I wanted.Making a set of forms from steel takes a little longer, but is not anymore difficult. The cost is nearly the same, from $25-125, depending onhowmany tools you have to buy. The rods we make take many hours of hands-onlabor. Another week or so of labor to come up with forms worthy of yourbestefforts is time well spent. A set of steel forms will last a lifetime, andwill go far too eliminate your worries about the forms as a source oftroublewhen your strips aren't perfect.As soon as I typed the words above, I thought about some wonderfulrodmakers who use nothing but wooden forms. In no way do I mean toimply thattheir rods, or forms, are inferior. But I think steel forms are worth theextra effort required. Keep that in mind as you make your decisions. Harry Darin J Law wrote: I have heard that maple is the wood of choice for planing forms. I have acouple of six foot pieces of red oak; will red oak work? I just finisheda planing form out of hickory but it was a little short. So, when afriend gave me the oak, I thought that making a longer spare set ofplaning forms would be to my advantage. Why is maple the choice wood, is it because of the long straight grain oris it just harder than oak? Thanks for your time. Darin Law from caneman@clnk.com Mon Nov 15 10:55:35 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 15 Nov 1999 10:54:04 -0600 Subject: Re: wrapping Jerry,I really am not qualified to comment on other colors. I use red only...that is just the way it is. I will use other colors, but I charge more fordoing that... Red is my "signature" color and I like to stick with it. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: wrapping It must be the varnish. My first coat is usually diluted by 30% to insurepenetration. I have used ca. 6 different types of varnish on manydifferent colors of silk and also different sizes. Of the six varnishes Ihave used, including spar varnish, tan becomes beige, beige becomescopper,copper to dk. brn, dk. brn to chestnut, chestnut to (almost) black. etc.Burgundy turns very dk. Bright orange, orange and yellow to softtransparent colors, white of course becomes transparent. All reds I haveused have remained just that, red. I also tried 3/0 copper which turned todk. brn. but in larger sizes turned chestnut. And of course, with thetransparent nature of the thread, each was affected by the color of thebamboo on which it was used--heavily flamed vs med. flamed vs noflaming. Ican't tell you the amount of time I have spent trying to determine colorsof threads under different conditions. Likely the experienced rodbuilders will have better insight re the above.J. Snider At 07:12 AM 11/15/1999 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote:Jerry,It may be just the way our different varnishes affect the silk. TheVarmor is very slow drying and I retard it further by adding about 5%Mineral Spirits to my mix for the wraps. This insures maximumpenetrationof the wraps and insures that they "become one" with my base coats ofvarnish. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Jerry Snider ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 6:48 AMSubject: Re: wrapping Interesting, Bob. When I use Chinese Red with Varthane, spar varnish, anda couple of other polyurethane, it remains bright red (or even brighter!)but becomes translucent (transparent? whatever) and the guide feet showthrough clearly.J. Snider. At 06:44 PM 11/14/1999 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: from the beginning, I have used a color of silk that would "clear out" ordarken to the color that I want with my standard finish (Varmor R-10). Igenerally use a china red silk and it darkens to a deep maroon. Ipersonally prefer the color, and like the fact that the silk is so readilysaturated by the varnish. This, in my opinion, makes the wraps more apartof the finish, giving them (again, just my opinion) more durability andstrength. Only problem with going to lighter colored silks, for thosewhowant to maintain the lighter color, is that lighter silk tends to movemoretowards being clear than darkening. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Jerry Madigan Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 5:25 PMSubject: Re: wrapping I am experimenting alot with this right now. If youare afraid of color preservers, as I am, you canprevent some of the darkening by using a fast- dryingpolyurethane finish. Howell recommends Varathane 900,which is gloss. Seems to me that 1100, which issemi-gloss, would work also since these are undercoatsanyway. Minwax makes a fast-drying poly as well. You will find that thinning these will result in moredarkening since they have more time to fully absorb (Iguess). After fiddling with dozens of combinations, I havedecided that I like the evenness you get by allowingthe darkening at least partially. Also, includingsome spar varnish in the mixture seems to helplevelling and prevents the buildup you can get withthe fast dryers. It is possible to find thread colorswhich do not go "almost black" or, at the oppositeextreme, disappear. Can't wait to hear feedback from others. --- Darrell Lee wrote:That can't be helped on some colors of silk withoutcolor preserver such aslacquer or shellac. If you wish to avoid using acolor preserver, then youmight need to try using different colors or brandsof silk. That will sometimes happen even with colorpreserver... how do I know? ... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com ----- Original Message -----From: Carsten Jorgensen Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 11:55 AMSubject: wrapping Fellow Listers wrapping with Gossamers Silk creates the followingproblem: The darkercoloursturn blackish when covered with marine varnish.Not wanting to use colourpreserver,does anyone of You have a solution as how toprevent the wraps fromdarkening? This one has beaten me, hope You can provide asolution. regards, Carsten ===== __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Nov 15 11:20:48 1999 9:27:39 PST Subject: re: application of color preserver Hi Randy, This doesn't necessarily help, but here are some things I've decided about bleeds. If there are any thread fibers or filaments poking through near the surface of your starter coats, they can act as a wick to draw varnish into the wrap while dipping. Particularly if you have sanded/steel wooled the area and exposed the fibers. If you're dipping an old rod during a refinish/restoration then I believe varnish can travel up the seams and under the wrap creating a bleed. The increased pressure a wrap is subjected to while immersed for a long period in a dip tube, particularly the lower wraps on a section being dipped, allows the varnish to find it's way into or under the wrap. These are usually the wraps that bleed. Allowing the final coat on the wraps to dry for a longer period of time, a week for example, before dipping helps insure against the finish reactivating and finding a weak spot for the varnish to run into the wrap. Steel wooling the wrap areas between dips can take too much of the edgeof the wraps, which is a natural barrier and the point that is reduced quickest, therefore creating a weak spot for the varnish to breach. I'm very careful about steel wooling this area between coats. Black is the best color. It doesn't matter whether it bleeds or not, it looks the same. I still preserve sometimes, but I've mostly decided preserving is best used if you wrap the rod after you have finished the blank. For dipping I prefer going without color preserver. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu-------------Original Text I would like to ask the list for some advice regarding the proper use ofcolor preserver. When I use color preserver (I use Gudebrod), there seems tobe no way for me to predict whether or not the varnish will bleed through. Ihave had wraps that came out fine with two coats of color preserver andothers with four coats that bleed through. I have taken to applying some varnish on the wraps prior to dipping (alittle trick Chris McDowell taught me), but this is only helps to detectbleed through prior to dipping the whole rod. I have even had one look goodafter one coat of varnish and then bleed through after dipping! Is there a fool-proof method? Randy Brewerbrewer@teleport.com from HARMS1@prodigy.net Mon Nov 15 11:48:09 1999 Mon, 15 Nov 1999 12:47:56 -0500 Subject: Re: sanding sections boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF2F67.0E21DB20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF2F67.0E21DB20 Bob, Neither you nor your customers could discern whether 600-grit or =4000- grit paper had been used between coats. Try one of each--you'll =see there's no visible difference. Then, do just as you please. cheers, Bill Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999 7:29 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections Well, maybe it is a waste of time, but at an average of about $400 per =section, I guess I'll keep on wasting my time. My customers sure seem = Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: WILLIAM A HARMS rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 7:21 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections Jerry, If you allow adequate drying time between coats (at least three =days), there's no need to use anything finer than 400-grit (if =wet-sanded with mineral spirits), or 600-grit (if dry-sanded). The =varnish, whether dipped or brushed, will easily fill the "scratch" left = but you are only wasting your time. An optimal sanding procedure is one =that efficiently levels off the offending particles--leaving behind only =the amount of "tooth" that can be filled (and obscured) by the next = Now, in preparing for final polishing, you would want to finish with =something like 2000-grit wet-sand. But this is a different situation. cheers, Bill Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 8:47 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections That makes sense for the bamboo. Many, includingWayne, recommend 1000 or finer for work between finishcoats. Other thoughts? --- WILLIAM A HARMS wrote:All, There is no need whatever to go all the way down to will easily hide the "tooth" left from high qualitywet-or-dry 400-grit paper. Finer grits are nothingbut overkill on bamboo, accomplishing nothing in thequality of the finish. If you were dealing withwood, that would be a different matter, as wood haspores in its grain, and miniscule fibers that mayfuzz-up. Bamboo, however, causes neither of theseproblems. cheers, Bill Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 4:54 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections John,I have never had any problem with my varnishsticking to my rodsections. I have always sanded down to a 1200grit. I know on wood this isnot standard, but bamboo isn't wood....technically, it is a grass and doesreact different to varnish than wood does. I wasa violin maker before Iwas a rodmaker, and i never went finer than 600 ona violin back (maple) or400 on a top (sitka spruce) but since my firstrod, many many years ago, Ihave always gone to 1200 on my cane sections, andno trouble yet. Ofcourse, I am very meticulous in my varnishing. Ihave a dustproofvarnishing room and setup, wear latex gloves whenhandling the sectionsbefore varnishing and after thoroughly cleaningand degreasing withdenatured alcohol. On bamboo, I think the key togetting the varnish tostay on the section, isn't so much the texture ofthe surface, as it is withwood, but the cleanliness of the surface.Just my opinion, of course. Bob-----Original Message-----From: channer Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 6:22 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections At 09:18 AM 11/09/1999 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote:"" "" So, yesterday, I glued up aset of 6 unmatched scrap At this pointmy only concern was "" If it doesscrew up as it cures, Iwill post more, if not, you won't hear from meon this again... it lookslike it is going to do great. too muchtime on my hands? LOLLater, Bob "" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rods http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htmBob;The only problem that I can forsee is that thevarnish may not stick to therod, not because of the water, but because youhave polished it too muchand the rod has no "tooth" for the varnish tostick to.Furniture finisherswill only go so fine on bare wood beforevarnishing, further polishing isdone to the coats of finish themselves as therewill also be a chemicalbond as well as a physical bond. I have strippedsome old rods that lokkedvery nice in the few places the finish was stillintact, but when I got allthe varnish off the surface looked to be sandedno finer than 150 grit. Igo finer, down to about 450(50 micron,whateverthe equivalent is) and havetested to see if I can flake the cured varnishoff with my fingernail, itstayed on very well, but I have noticed that if Igo to 1200 grit first,the varnish will come off with little effort.John =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF2F67.0E21DB20 Bob, Neither you noryour = could discern whether 600-grit or 4000-grit paper had been used Then, do just as you please. Bill ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley Makers List Serve Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999= AMSubject: Re: sanding =sections Well, maybe it is a waste oftime, = average of about $400 per section, I guess I'll keep on wasting my = Later,Bob -----Original = gjm80301@yahoo.com rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, November 15, 1999 7:21 AMSubject: Re: sanding= sectionsJerry, If you allow = time between coats (at least three days), there's no need to use = finer than 400-grit (if wet-sanded with mineral spirits), or = or finer, of course, but you are only wasting your = Now, inpreparing = situation. Bill ----- Original Message ----- = Madigan Sent: Sunday, November 14, = AMSubject: Re: sanding =sections = = = <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= 11/09/1999 -0600, Bob Nunley = = = ==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D______________________________________= You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF2F67.0E21DB20-- from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Nov 15 11:52:53 1999 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Subject: wrapping boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF2F9B.1593B020" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF2F9B.1593B020 Fellow Listers thanks for all of Your replies. Seems like this is a problem common to =all of us.Tony Spezios rod finish from Gudebrod seems to be the right thing, but = fact that it isn=B4t available here i Denmark. Thanks for the prompt =response, Tony. Reading Jerry=B4s latest mail makes me realise, that we have duplicated=each othersefforts. My experiences are EXACTLY like Jerrys. Problem is, I fancy the =burgundywrappings with golden tippets. Then there is Varathane. I presume this is a trade brand. Wonder if any =quick dryingpoly varnish will do. Just have to try, I guess. If one of You Varathane =userswould be so kind as to mail me the descirption from the label, as what =this varnishcontains, I=B4ll have to try and find something similar here. Have just aquired some two part automotive acrylic clear laquer. Wil =have to try it. Boy, why didn=B4t I stick to something simple like restoring veteran =Motorcycles, asI used to? :-)) Again, thanks to all of You. regards,Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF2F9B.1593B020 Fellow Listers thanks for all of Your replies. = is a problem common to all of us.Tony Spezios rod finish from = be the right thing, but for thefact that it isn´t available= Denmark. Thanks for the prompt response, Tony. Reading Jerry´s latest mail= realise, that we have duplicated each othersefforts. My experiences areEXACTLY = Problem is, I fancy the burgundywrappings with golden =tippets. Then there is Varathane. Ipresume = trade brand. Wonder if any quick dryingpoly varnish will do. Just have to= If one of You Varathane userswould be so kind as to mail methe = from the label, as what this varnishcontains, I´ll have to tryand = something similar here. Have just aquired some two part automotive acrylic= laquer. Wil have to try it. Boy, why didn´t I stick to something simple = restoring veteran Motorcycles, asI used to? :-)) Again, thanks to all of You. regards,Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF2F9B.1593B020-- from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Nov 15 12:19:13 1999 Subject: Re: wrapping boundary="=====================_18864518==_.ALT" --=====================_18864518==_.ALT Carsten, I too, like the burgundy wraps with gold tipping. However, for=someunknown reason (likely, in part, due to the dark color) no matter how=careful Iam and no matter how carefully I burnish the burgundy wraps I still get=someunevenness in my wraps which translates into dark and lighter portions. I=evenuse magnifying lenses to view my turns as I wrap. This is especiallytrue=onthe larger diameter wraps, i.e. those near the grip. The only color in=which I J. Snider Fellow Listers thanks for all of Your replies. Seems like this is a problem common toall=ofus.Tony Spezios rod finish from Gudebrod seems to be the right thing, butforthefact that it isn=B4t available here i Denmark. Thanks for the prompt=response,Tony. Reading Jerry=B4s latest mail makes me realise, that we haveduplicated=eachothersefforts. My experiences are EXACTLY like Jerrys. Problem is, I fancy theburgundywrappings with golden tippets. Then there is Varathane. I presume this is a trade brand. Wonder if any=quickdryingpoly varnish will do. Just have to try, I guess. If one of You Varathaneuserswould be so kind as to mail me the descirption from the label, as what=thisvarnishcontains, I=B4ll have to try and find something similar here. Have just aquired some two part automotive acrylic clear laquer. Wilhave=totry it. Boy, why didn=B4t I stick to something simple like restoring veteranMotorcycles, asI used to? :-)) Again, thanks to all of You. regards,Carsten --=====================_18864518==_.ALT burgundy wraps I still get some unevenness in my wraps which translatesinto dark and lighter portions. I even use magnifying lenses to view my J. Snider At 06:56 PM 11/15/1999 +0100, Carsten J=F8rgensen wrote: Fellow Listers thanks for all of Your replies. Seems like this is a problemcommon to all of us.Tony Spezios rod finish from Gudebrod seems to be the right thing, but fact that it isn=B4t available here i Denmark. Thanks for the promptresponse, Tony. Reading Jerry=B4s latest mail makes me realise, that wehaveduplicated each othersefforts. My experiences are EXACTLY like Jerrys. Problem is, I fancy theburgundywrappings with golden tippets. Then there is Varathane. I presume this is a trade brand.Wonder if any quick dryingpoly varnish will do. Just have to try, I guess. If one of You Varathaneuserswould be so kind as to mail me the descirption from the label, as whatthis varnishcontains, I=B4ll have to try and find something similar here. Have just aquired some two part automotive acrylic clearlaquer. Wil have to try it. Boy, why didn=B4t I stick to something simple likerestoringveteran Motorcycles, asI used to? :-)) Again, thanks to all of You. regards,Carsten --=====================_18864518==_.ALT-- from caneman@clnk.com Mon Nov 15 12:26:27 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 15 Nov 1999 12:24:50 -0600 Subject: Re: sanding sections boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E2_01BF2F64.42AC81E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00E2_01BF2F64.42AC81E0 My rods have anywhere from 4 to 6 coats of varnish on them. The =first, and second are almost completely removed, starting with 400, then=progressing to 1000 grit. When I am finished with those two coats, I =have a section that is smoothe, yes, maybe what some would consider too=smooth, but on close inspection you can see thousands of little ="needles" of varnish that has filled the flaws in the bamboo. The third =coat I sand with 600 progressing to 1000, and take this down only enough=to insure that the flats are completely flat and the corners are sharp. =The fourth coat, if I am lucky is my final coat, and I sand it with 1000 =and 1200 until again, my flats are FLAT and my corners are sharp... I =hate rounded corners on a rod. I the varnish gods are smiling on me, =then I get out my soft linen rags and my 3M polish and get after it... =if they aren't smiling, then a 5th coat, then possible even a sixth =coat, will get me where I want to be.I understand that in your experience, the 400 more than suffices to =give you the results you want, but all of my varnish coats are less than =a hairs thickness, so that, even with six coats, I would not have enough =varnish on my rods to alter the varnished dimensions greatly from the =unvarnished dimensions. As closely as I like to work down each coat, a =400 grit sandpaper can get away from me pretty fast and it becomes very=easy to remove much more varnish than I want to, especially on my final =coats. As far as wasted time, it doesn't take me much longer to do my =sanding the way I like to do it than it does to do it with 400 only. I =guess it is just personal preference. I can split, straighten, bevel, =heat treat and taper a rod (2 piece, 2 tip) in morning easily. Only =about 6 hours to complete all of this. I spend about another 3 to 4 =fine fitting the strips after tapering, then the rest of the time, =another 30 plus hours, is spent in wrapping and finishing. I may be =using more time than is necessary, but I used to use 400 only and while =my rods had a very nice finish, it was nothing like the rods I have made =in the past 2 years, since I adopted this method of finishing my rods. = My point is, I have found this to be, in my shop and in my =experience, the best way to finish my rods. It provides a depth and =beauty that I prefer. I don't have any problem whatsoever with the =varnish chipping or loosening because of the lack of "tooth" for it to =adhere to. As a matter of fact, one thing I learned from being a =Luthier is that you can wait too long to put on your next coat. =Multiple coats depend on the present coat reacting with and bonding to =the previous coat... If this is done in the proper time period (and it =varies with each varnish depending on the amount of oil and it "cure =time") then this "tooth" is not necessary. The new coat of varnish will =bond to the previous coat and you won't have any trouble whatsoever with=it failing.In any case, we all have our different methods, and all do what we =do, and how we do it, for our own specific reasons. I tout my method of =varnishing so loudly that I felt it warranted explanation. Tight lines, Bob-----Original Message-----From: WILLIAM A HARMS Cc: Rod Makers List Serve Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 11:46 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections Bob, Neither you nor your customers could discern whether 600-grit or =4000- grit paper had been used between coats. Try one of each--you'll =see there's no visible difference. Then, do just as you please. cheers, Bill Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999 7:29 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections Well, maybe it is a waste of time, but at an average of about =$400 per section, I guess I'll keep on wasting my time. My customers = Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: WILLIAM A HARMS rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 7:21 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections Jerry, If you allow adequate drying time between coats (at least =three days), there's no need to use anything finer than 400-grit (if =wet-sanded with mineral spirits), or 600-grit (if dry-sanded). The =varnish, whether dipped or brushed, will easily fill the "scratch" left = but you are only wasting your time. An optimal sanding procedure is one =that efficiently levels off the offending particles--leaving behind only =the amount of "tooth" that can be filled (and obscured) by the next = Now, in preparing for final polishing, you would want to =finish with something like 2000-grit wet-sand. But this is a different =situation. cheers, Bill Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 8:47 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections That makes sense for the bamboo. Many, includingWayne, recommend 1000 or finer for work between finishcoats. Other thoughts? --- WILLIAM A HARMS wrote:All, There is no need whatever to go all the way down to will easily hide the "tooth" left from high qualitywet-or-dry 400-grit paper. Finer grits are nothingbut overkill on bamboo, accomplishing nothing in thequality of the finish. If you were dealing withwood, that would be a different matter, as wood haspores in its grain, and miniscule fibers that mayfuzz-up. Bamboo, however, causes neither of theseproblems. cheers, Bill Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 4:54 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections John,I have never had any problem with my varnishsticking to my rodsections. I have always sanded down to a 1200grit. I know on wood this isnot standard, but bamboo isn't wood....technically, it is a grass and doesreact different to varnish than wood does. I wasa violin maker before Iwas a rodmaker, and i never went finer than 600 ona violin back (maple) or400 on a top (sitka spruce) but since my firstrod, many many years ago, Ihave always gone to 1200 on my cane sections, andno trouble yet. Ofcourse, I am very meticulous in my varnishing. Ihave a dustproofvarnishing room and setup, wear latex gloves whenhandling the sectionsbefore varnishing and after thoroughly cleaningand degreasing withdenatured alcohol. On bamboo, I think the key togetting the varnish tostay on the section, isn't so much the texture ofthe surface, as it is withwood, but the cleanliness of the surface.Just my opinion, of course. Bob-----Original Message-----From: channer Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 6:22 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections At 09:18 AM 11/09/1999 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote:"" "" So, yesterday, I glued up aset of 6 unmatched scrap At this pointmy only concern was "" If it doesscrew up as it cures, Iwill post more, if not, you won't hear from meon this again... it lookslike it is going to do great. too muchtime on my hands? LOLLater, Bob "" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rods =http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htmBob;The only problem that I can forsee is that thevarnish may not stick to therod, not because of the water, but because youhave polished it too muchand the rod has no "tooth" for the varnish tostick to.Furniture finisherswill only go so fine on bare wood beforevarnishing, further polishing isdone to the coats of finish themselves as therewill also be a chemicalbond as well as a physical bond. I have strippedsome old rods that lokkedvery nice in the few places the finish was stillintact, but when I got allthe varnish off the surface looked to be sandedno finer than 150 grit. Igo finer, down to about 450(50 micron,whateverthe equivalent is) and havetested to see if I can flake the cured varnishoff with my fingernail, itstayed on very well, but I have noticed that if Igo to 1200 grit first,the varnish will come off with little effort.John =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------=_NextPart_000_00E2_01BF2F64.42AC81E0 Bill, = finished with those two coats, I have a section that is smoothe, yes, = some would consider too smooth, but on close inspection you can see = down only enough to insure that the flats are completely flat and the = smiling on me, then I get out my soft linen rags and my 3M polish and = it... if they aren't smiling, then a 5th coat, then possible even a = will get me where I want to be. that = experience, the 400 more than suffices to give you the results you want, = of my varnish coats are less than a hairs thickness, so that, even with = coats, I would not have enough varnish on my rods to alter the varnished = = to work down each coat, a 400 grit sandpaper can get away from me pretty= and it becomes very easy to remove much more varnish than I want to, = another 3 to 4 fine fitting the strips after tapering, then the rest of = using more time than is necessary, but I used to use 400 only and while = had a very nice finish, it was nothing like the rods I have made in the = = problem whatsoever with the varnish chipping or loosening because of the= learned from being a Luthier is that you can wait too long to put on = bonding to the previous coat... If this is done in the proper time = it varies with each varnish depending on the amount of oil and it = varnish will bond to the previous coat and you won't have any trouble = with it failing. we = different methods, and all do what we do, and how we do it, for our own = explanation. Tight lines, Bob -----Original = = Makers List Serve <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, November 15, 1999 11:46 AMSubject: Re: = sectionsBob, Neither you nor= customers could discern whether 600-grit or 4000-grit paper had been= Bill ----- Original Message ----- Bob = Cc: Rod Makers List Serve = Sent: Monday, November = 7:29 AMSubject: Re: sanding =sections Well, maybe it is a waste of= at an average of about $400 per section, I guess I'll keep on = Later,Bob rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, November 15, 1999 7:21 AMSubject: Re: = sectionsJerry, If you = drying time between coats (at least three days), there's no = use anything finer than 400-grit (if wet-sanded with mineral = dipped or brushed, will easily fill the "scratch" = mechanical adhesion. Now, in = final polishing, you would want to finish with something = situation. Bill ----- Original Message = Jerry Madigan Sent: Sunday, = 1999 8:47 AMSubject: Re: = sections includingWayne, recommend 1000 or finer for work = varnishing room and setup, wear latex gloves = <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 6:22 = = = = = ==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D______________________________________= You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------=_NextPart_000_00E2_01BF2F64.42AC81E0-- from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Nov 15 12:36:59 1999 [12.10.111.35] (may be forged)) Mon, 15 Nov 1999 12:36:14 -0600 Subject: Re: wrapping 1F7D089EE50CEE1ED4A59BE2" --------------1F7D089EE50CEE1ED4A59BE2 I just finished dipping one rod with the Gudebrodfinish on the wraps. I like what I see.There is no guarantee that this will not beaffected by use. Neither of these rods will beused much if any at all so I can take a chance.After I finish these I will do another and use thehe-- out of it and see what it does. This is notthe way to go if you want transparent wraps. Iwill play with that later.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Fellow Listers thanks for all of Your replies.Seems like this is a problem common to all ofus.Tony Spezios rod finish from Gudebrod seemsto be the right thing, but for thefact that itisn't available here i Denmark. Thanks for theprompt response, Tony. Reading Jerry's latestmail makes me realise, that we have duplicatedeach othersefforts. My experiences are EXACTLYlike Jerrys. Problem is, I fancy theburgundywrappings with golden tippets. Thenthere is Varathane. I presume this is a tradebrand. Wonder if any quick dryingpoly varnishwill do. Just have to try, I guess. If one ofYou Varathane userswould be so kind as to mailme the descirption from the label, as what thisvarnishcontains, I'll have to try and findsomething similar here. Have just aquired sometwo part automotive acrylic clear laquer. Wilhave to try it. Boy, why didn't I stick tosomething simple like restoring veteranMotorcycles, asI used to? :-)) Again, thanks toall of You. regards,Carsten --------------1F7D089EE50CEE1ED4A59BE2 I just finished dipping one rod with the Gudebrod finish on the wraps.I like what I see.There is no guarantee that this will not be affected by use. Neitherof these rods will be used much if any at all so I can take a chance. AfterI finish these I will do another and use the he-- out of it and see whatit does. This is not the way to go if you want transparent wraps. I willplay with that later. Carsten Jørgensen wrote: all of Your replies. Seems like this is a problem common to all ofus.TonySpezios rod finish from Gudebrod seems to be the right thing, but forthefactthat it isn´t available here i Denmark. Thanks for the promptresponse, latest mail makes me realise, that we have duplicated eachothersefforts.My experiences are EXACTLY like Jerrys. Problem is, I fancy theburgundywrappings there is Varathane. I presume this is a trade brand. Wonder if any quickdryingpolyvarnish willdo. Just have to try, I guess. If one of You Varathaneuserswouldbe so kind as to mail me the descirption from the label, as what thisvarnishcontains,I´ll have to try and find something similar just aquired some two part automotive acrylic clear laquer. Wil have to somethingsimple like restoring veteran Motorcycles, asI used --------------1F7D089EE50CEE1ED4A59BE2-- from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Nov 15 12:50:55 1999 [12.10.111.35] (may be forged)) Mon, 15 Nov 1999 12:50:14 -0600 Subject: Re: application of color preserver There must be an answer but I have not found it yet. I have done a numberofGrap---- rods that looked real good when finished but within a years timetheyseem to have faded or turned blotchy. The three types and brands I triedall didthe same thing. I also would like an answer to this question.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Randy Brewer wrote: I would like to ask the list for some advice regarding the proper use ofcolor preserver. When I use color preserver (I use Gudebrod), there seemstobe no way for me to predict whether or not the varnish will bleedthrough. Ihave had wraps that came out fine with two coats of color preserver andothers with four coats that bleed through. I have taken to applying some varnish on the wraps prior to dipping (alittle trick Chris McDowell taught me), but this is only helps to detectbleed through prior to dipping the whole rod. I have even had one lookgoodafter one coat of varnish and then bleed through after dipping! Is there a fool-proof method? Randy Brewerbrewer@teleport.com from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Nov 15 14:15:13 1999 Subject: Re: wrapping I think you will all have to accept the fact that finishes alter the colourofsilk thread. If some of you guys are looking for garish wraps then you canpurchase nylon that has some sort of colour preserver included. They lookterrible but might complement the cheap chromed brass ferrules you havebeendiscussing.Terry Jerry Snider wrote: It must be the varnish. My first coat is usually diluted by 30% to insurepenetration. I have used ca. 6 different types of varnish on manydifferent colors of silk and also different sizes. Of the six varnishes Ihave used, including spar varnish, tan becomes beige, beige becomescopper,copper to dk. brn, dk. brn to chestnut, chestnut to (almost) black. etc.Burgundy turns very dk. Bright orange, orange and yellow to softtransparent colors, white of course becomes transparent. All reds I haveused have remained just that, red. I also tried 3/0 copper which turnedtodk. brn. but in larger sizes turned chestnut. And of course, with thetransparent nature of the thread, each was affected by the color of thebamboo on which it was used--heavily flamed vs med. flamed vs noflaming. Ican't tell you the amount of time I have spent trying to determine colorsof threads under different conditions. Likely the experienced rodbuilders will have better insight re the above.J. Snider At 07:12 AM 11/15/1999 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote:Jerry,It may be just the way our different varnishes affect the silk. TheVarmor is very slow drying and I retard it further by adding about 5%Mineral Spirits to my mix for the wraps. This insures maximumpenetrationof the wraps and insures that they "become one" with my base coats ofvarnish. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Jerry Snider ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 6:48 AMSubject: Re: wrapping Interesting, Bob. When I use Chinese Red with Varthane, spar varnish,anda couple of other polyurethane, it remains bright red (or even brighter!)but becomes translucent (transparent? whatever) and the guide feetshowthrough clearly.J. Snider. At 06:44 PM 11/14/1999 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: from the beginning, I have used a color of silk that would "clear out"ordarken to the color that I want with my standard finish (Varmor R-10). Igenerally use a china red silk and it darkens to a deep maroon. Ipersonally prefer the color, and like the fact that the silk is so readilysaturated by the varnish. This, in my opinion, makes the wraps more apartof the finish, giving them (again, just my opinion) more durability andstrength. Only problem with going to lighter colored silks, for thosewhowant to maintain the lighter color, is that lighter silk tends to movemoretowards being clear than darkening. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Jerry Madigan Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 5:25 PMSubject: Re: wrapping I am experimenting alot with this right now. If youare afraid of color preservers, as I am, you canprevent some of the darkening by using a fast- dryingpolyurethane finish. Howell recommends Varathane 900,which is gloss. Seems to me that 1100, which issemi-gloss, would work also since these are undercoatsanyway. Minwax makes a fast-drying poly as well. You will find that thinning these will result in moredarkening since they have more time to fully absorb (Iguess). After fiddling with dozens of combinations, I havedecided that I like the evenness you get by allowingthe darkening at least partially. Also, includingsome spar varnish in the mixture seems to helplevelling and prevents the buildup you can get withthe fast dryers. It is possible to find thread colorswhich do not go "almost black" or, at the oppositeextreme, disappear. Can't wait to hear feedback from others. --- Darrell Lee wrote:That can't be helped on some colors of silk withoutcolor preserver such aslacquer or shellac. If you wish to avoid using acolor preserver, then youmight need to try using different colors or brandsof silk. That will sometimes happen even with colorpreserver... how do I know? ... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com ----- Original Message -----From: Carsten Jorgensen Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 11:55 AMSubject: wrapping Fellow Listers wrapping with Gossamers Silk creates the followingproblem: The darkercoloursturn blackish when covered with marine varnish.Not wanting to use colourpreserver,does anyone of You have a solution as how toprevent the wraps fromdarkening? This one has beaten me, hope You can provide asolution. regards, Carsten ===== __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Nov 15 14:27:13 1999 Mon, 15 Nov 1999 12:27:00 -0800 Subject: Re: sanding sections boundary="------------C105371BF8301E6DB7A251AE" --------------C105371BF8301E6DB7A251AE Bill, and others,I guess I'm going to show my ignorance a little bit here, butthat's nothing new. How does one go about "wet sanding" a rod? Harry WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Bob, Neither you nor your customers could discern whether 600-grit or4000- grit paper had been used between coats. Try one of each--you'llsee there's no visible difference. Then, do just as youplease. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Nunley Cc: Rod Makers List ServeSent: Monday, November 15, 1999 7:29 AMSubject: Re: sanding sectionsWell, maybe it is a waste of time, but at an average ofabout $400 per section, I guess I'll keep on wasting mytime. My customers sure seem to like it! Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: WILLIAM A HARMS rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 7:21 AMSubject: Re: sanding sectionsJerry, If you allow adequate drying time betweencoats (at least three days), there's no need touse anything finer than 400-grit (if wet- sandedwith mineral spirits), or 600-grit (ifdry-sanded). The varnish, whether dipped orbrushed, will easily fill the "scratch" left bythe grit of these papers. You can use 1000-gritor finer, of course, but you are only wasting yourtime. An optimal sanding procedure is one thatefficiently levels off the offendingparticles--leaving behind only the amount of"tooth" that can be filled (and obscured) by thenext coat, but not so fine that it reduces goodmechanical adhesion. Now, in preparing for finalpolishing, you would want to finish with somethinglike 2000-grit wet-sand. But this is a differentsituation. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: Jerry Madigan Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 8:47 AMSubject: Re: sanding sectionsThat makes sense for the bamboo. Many,includingWayne, recommend 1000 or finer for workbetween finishcoats. Other thoughts? --- WILLIAM A HARMS wrote:All, There is no need whatever to go allthe way down to1200-grit before varnishing cane. Anyvarnishwill easily hide the "tooth" left fromhigh qualitywet-or-dry 400-grit paper. Finergrits are nothingbut overkill on bamboo, accomplishingnothing in thequality of the finish. If you weredealing withwood, that would be a differentmatter, as wood haspores in its grain, and minisculefibers that mayfuzz-up. Bamboo, however, causesneither of theseproblems. cheers, Bill----- Original Message -----From: Bob Nunley Cc: Rod Makers List ServeSent: Wednesday, November 10, 19994:54 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections John,I have never had any problemwith my varnishsticking to my rodsections. I have always sanded downto a 1200grit. I know on wood this isnot standard, but bamboo isn'twood....technically, it is a grass and doesreact different to varnish than wooddoes. I wasa violin maker before Iwas a rodmaker, and i never wentfiner than 600 ona violin back (maple) or400 on a top (sitka spruce) butsince my firstrod, many many years ago, Ihave always gone to 1200 on my canesections, andno trouble yet. Ofcourse, I am very meticulous in myvarnishing. Ihave a dustproofvarnishing room and setup, wearlatex gloves whenhandling the sectionsbefore varnishing and afterthoroughly cleaningand degreasing withdenatured alcohol. On bamboo, Ithink the key togetting the varnish tostay on the section, isn't so muchthe texture ofthe surface, as it is withwood, but the cleanliness of thesurface.Just my opinion, of course. Bob-----Original Message-----From: channer Date: Wednesday, November 10, 19996:22 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections At 09:18 AM 11/09/1999 -0600, BobNunley wrote:"" "" So, yesterday, Iglued up a> > set of 6 unmatched scrapstrips and gave it a try thismorning.At this pointmy only concern was"" If it doesscrew up as it cures, Iwill post more, if not, you won'thear from meon this again... it lookslike it is going to dogreat. too muchtime on my hands? LOLLater, Bob "" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rods http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm Bob;The only problem that I can forseeis that thevarnish may not stick to therod, not because of the water, butbecause youhave polished it too muchand the rod has no "tooth" for thevarnish tostick to.Furniture finisherswill only go so fine on bare woodbeforevarnishing, further polishing isdone to the coats of finishthemselves as therewill also be a chemicalbond as well as a physical bond. Ihave strippedsome old rods that lokkedvery nice in the few places thefinish was stillintact, but when I got allthe varnish off the surface lookedto be sandedno finer than 150 grit. Igo finer, down to about 450(50micron,whateverthe equivalent is) and havetested to see if I can flake thecured varnishoff with my fingernail, itstayed on very well, but I havenoticed that if Igo to 1200 grit first,the varnish will come off withlittle effort.John ===== _________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free athttp://auctions.yahoo.com --------------C105371BF8301E6DB7A251AE Bill, and others, show one go about "wet sanding" a rod? WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: you nor your customers could discern whether 600-grit or 4000-grit paper From:BobNunley Cc: RodMakers List Serve Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999 7:29AM Subject: Re: sanding sections time, but at an average of about $400 per section, I guess I'll keep on -----OriginalMessage-----From: WILLIAM A HARMS<HARMS1@prodigy.net> <gjm80301@yahoo.com>; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>Date: Monday, November 15,1999 7:21 AMSubject: Re: sandingsections you allow adequate drying time between coats (at least three days),there'sno need to use anything finer than 400-grit (if wet-sanded with mineral or brushed, will easily fill the "scratch" left by the grit of these You can use 1000-grit or finer, of course, but you are only wasting your off the offending particles--leaving behind only the amount of "tooth"that can be filled (and obscured) by the next coat, but not so fine that in preparing for final polishing, you would want to finish with something ----- Original Message ----- From:JerryMadigan Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 8:47AM Subject: Re: sanding sections Wayne, recommend 1000 or finer for work between finish --- WILLIAM A HARMS <HARMS1@prodigy.net>wrote:All, There is no need whatever to go all the way down to1200-grit before varnishing cane. Any varnishwill easily hide the "tooth" left from high quality but overkill on bamboo, accomplishing nothing in the wood, that would be a different matter, as wood haspores in its grain, and miniscule fibers that may problems. cheers, Bill with my varnishsticking to my rod technically, it is a grass and does a violin maker before I a violin back (maple) or rod, many many years ago, I Ihave a dustproof handling the sections and degreasing with getting the varnish to the surface, as it is with <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu> set of 6 unmatched scrap At this point If it doesscrew up as it cures, I on this again... it looks too much http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm varnish may not stick to the have polished it too much stick to.Furniture finishers varnishing, further polishing is will also be a chemical some old rods that lokked intact, but when I got all no finer than 150 grit. I the equivalent is) and have off with my fingernail, it go to 1200 grit first, =====__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com --------------C105371BF8301E6DB7A251AE-- from thramer@presys.com Mon Nov 15 15:44:33 1999 0000 Subject: Re: sanding sections Bob Nunley wrote: Well, maybe it is a waste of time, but at an average of about $400 persection, I guess I'll keep on wasting my time. My customers sure seemto like it! Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: WILLIAM A HARMS rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 7:21 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections Jerry, If you allow adequate drying time between coats (at leastthree days), there's no need to use anything finer than400-grit (if wet-sanded with mineral spirits), or 600-grit(if dry-sanded). The varnish, whether dipped or brushed,will easily fill the "scratch" left by the grit of thesepapers. You can use 1000-grit or finer, of course, but youare only wasting your time. An optimal sanding procedure isone that efficiently levels off the offendingparticles--leaving behind only the amount of"tooth" that can be filled (and obscured) by the next coat,but not so fine that it reduces good mechanical adhesion. Now, in preparing for final polishing, you would want tofinish with something like 2000-grit wet-sand. But this isa different situation. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: Jerry Madigan Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 8:47 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections That makes sense for the bamboo. Many, includingWayne, recommend 1000 or finer for work betweenfinishcoats. Other thoughts? --- WILLIAM A HARMS wrote:All, There is no need whatever to go all the way downto1200-grit before varnishing cane. Any varnishwill easily hide the "tooth" left from highqualitywet-or-dry 400-grit paper. Finer grits arenothingbut overkill on bamboo, accomplishing nothing inthequality of the finish. If you were dealing withwood, that would be a different matter, as woodhaspores in its grain, and miniscule fibers thatmayfuzz-up. Bamboo, however, causes neither oftheseproblems. cheers, Bill----- Original Message -----From: Bob Nunley Cc: Rod Makers List ServeSent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 4:54 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections John,I have never had any problem with myvarnishsticking to my rodsections. I have always sanded down to a 1200grit. I know on wood this isnot standard, but bamboo isn't wood....technically, it is a grass and doesreact different to varnish than wood does. Iwasa violin maker before Iwas a rodmaker, and i never went finer than600 ona violin back (maple) or400 on a top (sitka spruce) but since my firstrod, many many years ago, Ihave always gone to 1200 on my cane sections,andno trouble yet. Ofcourse, I am very meticulous in myvarnishing. Ihave a dustproofvarnishing room and setup, wear latex gloveswhenhandling the sectionsbefore varnishing and after thoroughlycleaningand degreasing withdenatured alcohol. On bamboo, I think the keytogetting the varnish tostay on the section, isn't so much the textureofthe surface, as it is withwood, but the cleanliness of the surface.Just my opinion, of course. Bob-----Original Message-----From: channer Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 6:22 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections At 09:18 AM 11/09/1999 -0600, Bob Nunleywrote:"" "" So, yesterday, I glued upaset of 6 unmatched scrapstrips and gave it a try thismorning.At this pointmy only concern was "" If itdoesscrew up as it cures, Iwill post more, if not, you won't hear frommeon this again... it lookslike it is going to do great. toomuchtime on my hands? LOLLater, Bob "" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rods http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htmBob;The only problem that I can forsee is thatthevarnish may not stick to therod, not because of the water, but becauseyouhave polished it too muchand the rod has no "tooth" for the varnish tostick to.Furniture finisherswill only go so fine on bare wood beforevarnishing, further polishing isdone to the coats of finish themselves astherewill also be a chemicalbond as well as a physical bond. I havestrippedsome old rods that lokkedvery nice in the few places the finish wasstillintact, but when I got allthe varnish off the surface looked to besandedno finer than 150 grit. Igo finer, down to about 450(50micron,whateverthe equivalent is) and havetested to see if I can flake the curedvarnishoff with my fingernail, itstayed on very well, but I have noticed thatif Igo to 1200 grit first,the varnish will come off with little effort.John ===== __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com I hear that Grey Poupon works well as a sanding lubricant.A.J. from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Nov 15 18:12:43 1999 Subject: Re: sanding sections Yes it does, and that way it doesn't matter if a little spills onto yourhotdog!Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: sanding sections Bob Nunley wrote: Well, maybe it is a waste of time, but at an average of about $400 persection, I guess I'll keep on wasting my time. My customers sure seemto like it! Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: WILLIAM A HARMS rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 7:21 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections Jerry, If you allow adequate drying time between coats (at leastthree days), there's no need to use anything finer than400-grit (if wet-sanded with mineral spirits), or 600-grit(if dry-sanded). The varnish, whether dipped or brushed,will easily fill the "scratch" left by the grit of thesepapers. You can use 1000-grit or finer, of course, but youare only wasting your time. An optimal sanding procedure isone that efficiently levels off the offendingparticles--leaving behind only the amount of"tooth" that can be filled (and obscured) by the next coat,but not so fine that it reduces good mechanical adhesion. Now, in preparing for final polishing, you would want tofinish with something like 2000-grit wet-sand. But this isa different situation. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: Jerry Madigan Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 8:47 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections That makes sense for the bamboo. Many, includingWayne, recommend 1000 or finer for work betweenfinishcoats. Other thoughts? --- WILLIAM A HARMS wrote:All, There is no need whatever to go all the way downto1200-grit before varnishing cane. Any varnishwill easily hide the "tooth" left from highqualitywet-or-dry 400-grit paper. Finer grits arenothingbut overkill on bamboo, accomplishing nothing inthequality of the finish. If you were dealing withwood, that would be a different matter, as woodhaspores in its grain, and miniscule fibers thatmayfuzz-up. Bamboo, however, causes neither oftheseproblems. cheers, Bill----- Original Message -----From: Bob Nunley Cc: Rod Makers List ServeSent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 4:54 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections John,I have never had any problem with myvarnishsticking to my rodsections. I have always sanded down to a 1200grit. I know on wood this isnot standard, but bamboo isn't wood....technically, it is a grass and doesreact different to varnish than wood does. Iwasa violin maker before Iwas a rodmaker, and i never went finer than600 ona violin back (maple) or400 on a top (sitka spruce) but since my firstrod, many many years ago, Ihave always gone to 1200 on my cane sections,andno trouble yet. Ofcourse, I am very meticulous in myvarnishing. Ihave a dustproofvarnishing room and setup, wear latex gloveswhenhandling the sectionsbefore varnishing and after thoroughlycleaningand degreasing withdenatured alcohol. On bamboo, I think the keytogetting the varnish tostay on the section, isn't so much the textureofthe surface, as it is withwood, but the cleanliness of the surface.Just my opinion, of course. Bob-----Original Message-----From: channer Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 6:22 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections At 09:18 AM 11/09/1999 -0600, Bob Nunleywrote:"" "" So, yesterday, I glued upaset of 6 unmatched scrapstrips and gave it a try thismorning.At this pointmy only concern was "" If itdoesscrew up as it cures, Iwill post more, if not, you won't hear frommeon this again... it lookslike it is going to do great. toomuchtime on my hands? LOLLater, Bob "" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rods http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htmBob;The only problem that I can forsee is thatthevarnish may not stick to therod, not because of the water, but becauseyouhave polished it too muchand the rod has no "tooth" for the varnish tostick to.Furniture finisherswill only go so fine on bare wood beforevarnishing, further polishing isdone to the coats of finish themselves astherewill also be a chemicalbond as well as a physical bond. I havestrippedsome old rods that lokkedvery nice in the few places the finish wasstillintact, but when I got allthe varnish off the surface looked to besandedno finer than 150 grit. Igo finer, down to about 450(50micron,whateverthe equivalent is) and havetested to see if I can flake the curedvarnishoff with my fingernail, itstayed on very well, but I have noticed thatif Igo to 1200 grit first,the varnish will come off with little effort.John ===== __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com I hear that Grey Poupon works well as a sanding lubricant.A.J. from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Nov 15 18:25:54 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Mon, 15 Nov 1999 16:25:51 -0800 "stetzer@csd.uwm.edu" Subject: Re: First Rod - Good news and bad Eric Frank has the right thought here - try the Epoxy. Titebondneeds a clean planed surface and you have one with glue on it - it will not be a good bond. You have learned a lesson with the reactive poly glues. I tried these eons ago and reported that it was easy to break the spliceglued with them - even on strips wetted with water prior to using it. Now stop and splice up a bunch of trial strips and try different gluesyou are considering. You will find titebond is the most convient to use. If youinclude pure hide glue in the mix and you find the best glue for splices. I use it forcustomers rods and haven't lost one to abuse yet. I plan on having a demo derby at next year's Corbett Lake gathering where I will have a number of strips spliced with various gluesto have a destructive test of which one holds best. This will replicate myoriginal test and should help guide people on the best choice of glues Chris Eric,With the gorilla glue on the splices, I'd use something like epoxy torepair. I don't think Titebond will penetrate the old glue coating enough to provide a secure bond. With me, my first rod which was spliced with Urac eventually failedat a splice. Since then I've used Gorilla glue with no problems. Gofigure. (I do wet one side of the splice and put glue on the other.)......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Sun, 14 Nov 1999 EESweet@aol.com wrote: Hi Mike,I've been thinking about trying the repair since the breaks are so clean,but don't know if others would also let go in time. I'd hate to be patchingthis thing together over it's lifetime. Also, I was far enough off in myplaning that I significantly changed the action and would like to build the rod asit was intended. That said, I'm loath to take it apart, for purely reasons. Gorilla Glue is one of the ones that foams, and since the "incident" I've searched the archives (again) and found both good and bad reports. Iwent with it for the typical reasons, waterproof and more heat resistantthan Titebond II. Obviously not the best choice in retrospect. Live and learn. Just one of the many mistakes made during the construction of this rodthat won't be repeated on the next one.Eric from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Nov 15 19:04:58 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 15 Nov 1999 19:04:53 -0600 Subject: Re: application of color preserver boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0173_01BF2F9C.44CC3320" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0173_01BF2F9C.44CC3320 As to color preserver. The base of most commercial products sold for =this is a nitrate. Nitrate "dopes" take about 30 days, to finish drying, =i.e., gassing off the volatiles, such as thinners. Still, multiple =coats, will not always seal out everything completely. This is the major =reason I got away from them, years ago. Even glass rods, would allow the =wraps to crack, if fished hard. As for keeping the colors from fading, this is an ultra-violet problem. =There are additives, that will screen the ultra-violet, and keep the =colors true much longer. My expertise in this field, comes from highly =competitive model airplanes, that take hundreds of hours/dollars to =produce. We try/use just about any type of finishing product available =today, and have allot of first hand experiences with some. There are =clear additives that make these liquids more flexible, as well as the =ultra-violet screen additive, which is also clear. To me, the trade off =of extra pains just to keep a certain color, just isn't worth it when =varnish lasts almost forever. Any 2 part acrylic must be used in a well ventilated area, and this goes =a thousand times over for 2 part urethanes, and epoxies ! This stuff can =kill you ! With the nitrate based product, our big enemy is that these become =brittle, after a very short time, when one considers the life of a fine =cane rod ! GMA Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999 12:48 PMSubject: Re: application of color preserver There must be an answer but I have not found it yet. I have done a =number ofGrap---- rods that looked real good when finished but within a years =time theyseem to have faded or turned blotchy. The three types and brands I =tried all didthe same thing. I also would like an answer to this question.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Randy Brewer wrote: I would like to ask the list for some advice regarding the proper =use ofcolor preserver. When I use color preserver (I use Gudebrod), there =seems tobe no way for me to predict whether or not the varnish will bleed =through. Ihave had wraps that came out fine with two coats of color preserver =andothers with four coats that bleed through. I have taken to applying some varnish on the wraps prior to dipping =(alittle trick Chris McDowell taught me), but this is only helps to =detectbleed through prior to dipping the whole rod. I have even had one =look goodafter one coat of varnish and then bleed through after dipping! Is there a fool-proof method? Randy Brewerbrewer@teleport.com ------=_NextPart_000_0173_01BF2F9C.44CC3320 As to color preserver. The base of most = products sold for this is a nitrate. Nitrate "dopes" take about 30 days, = finish drying, i.e., gassing off the volatiles, such as thinners. Still, = multiple coats, will not always seal out everything completely. This is = major reason I got away from them, years ago. Even glass rods, would = wraps to crack, if fished hard. As for keeping the colors from fading, this is an = problem. There are additives, that will screen the ultra-violet, and = competitive model airplanes, that take hundreds of hours/dollars to = that make these liquids more flexible, as well as the ultra-violet = additive, which is also clear. To me, the trade off of extra pains just = forever. Any 2 part acrylic must be used in a well ventilated area, = goes a thousand times over for 2 part urethanes, and epoxies ! This = kill you ! With the nitrate based product, our big enemy is that these= brittle, after a very short time, when one considers the life of a fine = ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Spezio Cc: Rodmaker's List Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999= PMSubject: Re: application of = preserverThere must be an answer but I have not found it yet. I = done a number ofGrap---- rods that looked real good when finished = within a years time theyseem to have faded or turned blotchy. The = types and brands I tried all didthe same thing. I also would like = ------=_NextPart_000_0173_01BF2F9C.44CC3320-- from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Mon Nov 15 19:20:59 1999 Subject: Re: wrapping Amen, Terry from HARMS1@prodigy.net Mon Nov 15 19:55:15 1999 Mon, 15 Nov 1999 20:55:01 -0500 Subject: Re: sanding sections boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01BF2FAB.19260B60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BF2FAB.19260B60 Bob, Thanks for this thorough explanation of your finishing techniques. =There's no doubt in my mind that your rods must be spectacular in =appearance. It is easy to understand why you want to take such care =with the grit of paper when you sand each of your coats down to such a =fine film (and why you would need five or six coats). Clearly, 400-grit =paper would work too fast if your objective is to remove all but a = It would appear to me that what you are trying to attain with your =technique are truly sharp corners and truly flat flats--and the multiple =coats (with repeated sanding) helps to build that. But, otherwise, I =can't really see how the final surface of the finish would be enhanced = process is always a different matter, and I, too, work up to the =1200-grit prior to polishing.) But all this discussion really becomes =pretty academic, because each of us who really cares about the =appearance of our rods works out his own technique and soon, that = I think the only part of your description I can't even begin to grasp, =now, is the part about being able to "split, straighten, bevel, heat =treat and taper" a rod (2 piece, 2 tip) in one morning easily." Those =steps have always taken me at least two days. So, my hat's off to you, =Bob. You da MAN ! Thanks for comparing notes, Bob, and for sharing your techniques. cheers, Bill Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999 10:23 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections My rods have anywhere from 4 to 6 coats of varnish on them. The =first, and second are almost completely removed, starting with 400, then=progressing to 1000 grit. When I am finished with those two coats, I =have a section that is smoothe, yes, maybe what some would consider too=smooth, but on close inspection you can see thousands of little ="needles" of varnish that has filled the flaws in the bamboo. The third =coat I sand with 600 progressing to 1000, and take this down only enough=to insure that the flats are completely flat and the corners are sharp. =The fourth coat, if I am lucky is my final coat, and I sand it with 1000 =and 1200 until again, my flats are FLAT and my corners are sharp... I =hate rounded corners on a rod. I the varnish gods are smiling on me, =then I get out my soft linen rags and my 3M polish and get after it... =if they aren't smiling, then a 5th coat, then possible even a sixth =coat, will get me where I want to be.I understand that in your experience, the 400 more than suffices =to give you the results you want, but all of my varnish coats are less =than a hairs thickness, so that, even with six coats, I would not have =enough varnish on my rods to alter the varnished dimensions greatly from=the unvarnished dimensions. As closely as I like to work down each =coat, a 400 grit sandpaper can get away from me pretty fast and it =becomes very easy to remove much more varnish than I want to, especially=on my final coats. As far as wasted time, it doesn't take me much =longer to do my sanding the way I like to do it than it does to do it =with 400 only. I guess it is just personal preference. I can split, =straighten, bevel, heat treat and taper a rod (2 piece, 2 tip) in =morning easily. Only about 6 hours to complete all of this. I spend =about another 3 to 4 fine fitting the strips after tapering, then the =rest of the time, another 30 plus hours, is spent in wrapping and =finishing. I may be using more time than is necessary, but I used to =use 400 only and while my rods had a very nice finish, it was nothing =like the rods I have made in the past 2 years, since I adopted this =method of finishing my rods. It was absolutely the difference in night = My point is, I have found this to be, in my shop and in my =experience, the best way to finish my rods. It provides a depth and =beauty that I prefer. I don't have any problem whatsoever with the =varnish chipping or loosening because of the lack of "tooth" for it to =adhere to. As a matter of fact, one thing I learned from being a =Luthier is that you can wait too long to put on your next coat. =Multiple coats depend on the present coat reacting with and bonding to =the previous coat... If this is done in the proper time period (and it =varies with each varnish depending on the amount of oil and it "cure =time") then this "tooth" is not necessary. The new coat of varnish will =bond to the previous coat and you won't have any trouble whatsoever with=it failing.In any case, we all have our different methods, and all do what we =do, and how we do it, for our own specific reasons. I tout my method of =varnishing so loudly that I felt it warranted explanation. Tight lines, Bob-----Original Message-----From: WILLIAM A HARMS Cc: Rod Makers List Serve Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 11:46 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections Bob, Neither you nor your customers could discern whether 600-grit or =4000- grit paper had been used between coats. Try one of each--you'll =see there's no visible difference. Then, do just as you please. cheers, Bill Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999 7:29 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections Well, maybe it is a waste of time, but at an average of about $400 =per section, I guess I'll keep on wasting my time. My customers sure = Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: WILLIAM A HARMS rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 7:21 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections Jerry, If you allow adequate drying time between coats (at least three =days), there's no need to use anything finer than 400-grit (if =wet-sanded with mineral spirits), or 600-grit (if dry-sanded). The =varnish, whether dipped or brushed, will easily fill the "scratch" left = but you are only wasting your time. An optimal sanding procedure is one =that efficiently levels off the offending particles--leaving behind only =the amount of "tooth" that can be filled (and obscured) by the next = Now, in preparing for final polishing, you would want to finish =with something like 2000-grit wet-sand. But this is a different =situation. cheers, Bill Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 8:47 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections That makes sense for the bamboo. Many, includingWayne, recommend 1000 or finer for work between finishcoats. Other thoughts? --- WILLIAM A HARMS wrote:All, There is no need whatever to go all the way down to will easily hide the "tooth" left from high qualitywet-or-dry 400-grit paper. Finer grits are nothingbut overkill on bamboo, accomplishing nothing in thequality of the finish. If you were dealing withwood, that would be a different matter, as wood haspores in its grain, and miniscule fibers that mayfuzz-up. Bamboo, however, causes neither of theseproblems. cheers, Bill Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 4:54 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections John,I have never had any problem with my varnishsticking to my rodsections. I have always sanded down to a 1200grit. I know on wood this isnot standard, but bamboo isn't wood....technically, it is a grass and doesreact different to varnish than wood does. I wasa violin maker before Iwas a rodmaker, and i never went finer than 600 ona violin back (maple) or400 on a top (sitka spruce) but since my firstrod, many many years ago, Ihave always gone to 1200 on my cane sections, andno trouble yet. Ofcourse, I am very meticulous in my varnishing. Ihave a dustproofvarnishing room and setup, wear latex gloves whenhandling the sectionsbefore varnishing and after thoroughly cleaningand degreasing withdenatured alcohol. On bamboo, I think the key togetting the varnish tostay on the section, isn't so much the texture ofthe surface, as it is withwood, but the cleanliness of the surface.Just my opinion, of course. Bob-----Original Message-----From: channer Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 6:22 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections At 09:18 AM 11/09/1999 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote:"" "" So, yesterday, I glued up aset of 6 unmatched scrap At this pointmy only concern was "" If it doesscrew up as it cures, Iwill post more, if not, you won't hear from meon this again... it lookslike it is going to do great. too muchtime on my hands? LOLLater, Bob "" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rods =http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htmBob;The only problem that I can forsee is that thevarnish may not stick to therod, not because of the water, but because youhave polished it too muchand the rod has no "tooth" for the varnish tostick to.Furniture finisherswill only go so fine on bare wood beforevarnishing, further polishing isdone to the coats of finish themselves as therewill also be a chemicalbond as well as a physical bond. I have strippedsome old rods that lokkedvery nice in the few places the finish was stillintact, but when I got allthe varnish off the surface looked to be sandedno finer than 150 grit. Igo finer, down to about 450(50 micron,whateverthe equivalent is) and havetested to see if I can flake the cured varnishoff with my fingernail, itstayed on very well, but I have noticed that if Igo to 1200 grit first,the varnish will come off with little effort.John =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BF2FAB.19260B60 Bob, Thanks for this = you want to take such care with the grit of paper when you sand each of = coats down to such a fine film (and why you would need five or six = Clearly, 400-grit paper would work too fast if your objective is to = It would appear tome = truly flat flats--and the multiple coats (with repeated sanding) helps = prep for the polishing process is always a different matter, and I, too, = = really cares about the appearance of our rods works out his own = I think the onlypart = description I can't even begin to grasp, now, is the part about being = "split, straighten, bevel, heat treat and taper" a rod (2 piece, 2 tip) = ! Thanks forcomparing = and for sharing your techniques. Bill ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley Makers List Serve Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999= AMSubject: Re: sanding =sections Bill, = completely removed, starting with 400, then progressing to 1000 = When I am finished with those two coats, I have a section that is = yes, maybe what some would consider too smooth, but on close = can see thousands of little "needles" of varnish that has filled the = this down only enough to insure that the flats are completely flat and = I sand it with 1000 and 1200 until again, my flats are FLAT and my = smiling on me, then I get out my soft linen rags and my 3M polish and = after it... if they aren't smiling, then a 5th coat, then possible = sixth coat, will get me where I want to be. = experience, the 400 more than suffices to give you the results you = all of my varnish coats are less than a hairs thickness, so that, even = six coats, I would not have enough varnish on my rods to alter the = to work down each coat, a 400 grit sandpaper can get away from me = and it becomes very easy to remove much more varnish than I want much longer to do my sanding the way I like to do it than it does to = split, straighten, bevel, heat treat and taper a rod (2 piece, 2 tip) = spend about another 3 to 4 fine fitting the strips after tapering, = 400 only and while my rods had a very nice finish, it was nothing like = rods I have made in the past 2 years, since I adopted this method of = I = this to be, in my shop and in my experience, the best way to finish my = any problem whatsoever with the varnish chipping or loosening because = learned from being a Luthier is that you can wait too long to put on = bonding to the previous coat... If this is done in the proper time = it varies with each varnish depending on the amount of oil and it = failing. we = our different methods, and all do what we do, and how we do it, for = it warranted explanation. Tight lines, Bob -----Original = = Makers List Serve <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, November 15, 1999 11:46 AMSubject: Re: = sectionsBob, Neither you nor= customers could discern whether 600-grit or 4000-grit paper had been= Bill ----- Original Message ----- Bob= Cc: Rod Makers List Serve = Sent: Monday, November 15, = AMSubject: Re: sanding =sections Well, maybe it is a waste of = an average of about $400 per section, I guess I'll keep on wasting = Later,Bob gjm80301@yahoo.com = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, November 15, 1999 7:21 AMSubject: Re: = sectionsJerry, If you allow= drying time between coats (at least three days), there's no need = anything finer than 400-grit (if wet-sanded with mineral = will easily fill the "scratch" left by the grit of these = You can use 1000-grit or finer, of course, but you are only = Now, in = final polishing, you would want to finish with something like = situation. Bill ----- Original Message ----- = Madigan Sent: Sunday, November = 8:47 AM sections = <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= = = = = = ==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D______________________________________= You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BF2FAB.19260B60-- from HARMS1@prodigy.net Mon Nov 15 20:16:18 1999 Mon, 15 Nov 1999 21:16:07 -0500 Subject: Re: sanding sections boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0028_01BF2FAE.0D4C9180" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BF2FAE.0D4C9180 Harry, The technique is really quite easy--you use a high quality 400 grit = 2" x 2"), and dip a corner of it into mineral spirits. This lubricates =the paper as you work it very gently over the surface of the cane prior =to finishing. The idea is to maximize the "cutting-action" of the paper =while minimizing the scratching effect on the surface. You want to have =a good supply of paper towels handy as you work--drying off small = The wet-sanding process is rather less critical for the cane itself than =on the subsequent coats of varnish. After the first coat, I use 400 =grit. Then I usually move up to the 600 grit paper for the following =coats--each time, sanding only after the varnish has had maybe three =good days of drying. If you've been reasonably careful with the =finishing process, you won't need to remove a great deal of the =varnish--leveling the surface only, and taking out the bits of dust and =so on that surely will be there. And, too, the second and third coats =of varnish will need significantly less sanding than the first. =Remember, a few thinned coats of varnish will be far, far better than a =couple heavy ones. cheers, Bill Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999 12:28 PMSubject: Re: sanding sections I guess I'm going to show my ignorance a little bit here, but = Bob, Neither you nor your customers could discern whether 600-grit =or 4000-grit paper had been used between coats. Try one of each--you'll =see there's no visible difference. Then, do just as you please. cheers, = From: Bob Nunley Cc: Rod Makers List ServeSent: Monday, November 15, 1999 7:29 AMSubject: Re: sanding sectionsWell, maybe it is a waste of time, but at an average of about =$400 per section, I guess I'll keep on wasting my time. My customers = Jerry, If you allow adequate drying time between coats (at =least three days), there's no need to use anything finer than 400-grit =(if wet-sanded with mineral spirits), or 600-grit (if dry-sanded). The =varnish, whether dipped or brushed, will easily fill the "scratch" left = but you are only wasting your time. An optimal sanding procedure is one =that efficiently levels off the offending particles--leaving behind only =the amount of "tooth" that can be filled (and obscured) by the next =coat, but not so fine that it reduces good mechanical adhesion. Now, in =preparing for final polishing, you would want to finish with something =like 2000-grit wet- sand. But this is a different situation. cheers, = ----- Original Message -----From: Jerry Madigan Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 8:47 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections = Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BF2FAE.0D4C9180 Harry, The technique is = easy--you use a high quality 400 grit "wet-or-dry" paper, cut a small = (maybe 2" x 2"), and dip a= the "cutting-action" of the paper while minimizing the scratching effect = The wet-sanding= = sanding only after the varnish has had maybe three good days of = you've been reasonably careful with the finishing process, you won't = remove a great deal of the varnish--leveling the surface only, and = = better than a couple heavy ones. Bill ----- Original Message ----- Harry = Makers List Serve Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999= PMSubject: Re: sanding =sections Nunley Cc: Rod Makers ListServeSent: Monday, November 15, = AM = waste of time, but at an average of about $400 per section, I = -----Original = From: WILLIAM A = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Date: Monday, = between coats (at least three days), there's no need to use = finer than 400-grit (if wet-sanded with mineral spirits), or = easily fill the "scratch" left by the grit of these = can use 1000-grit or finer, of course, but you are only wasting = off the offending particles--leaving behind only the amount of = that can be filled (and obscured) by the next coat, but not so = it reduces good mechanical = polishing, you would want to finish with something like = ----- Original Message =----- Madigan Sent: Sunday, November = 8:47 AM including Wayne, recommend 1000 or finer for work between = = Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 4:54 AM = = = = __________________________________________________Do = Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BF2FAE.0D4C9180-- from HARMS1@prodigy.net Mon Nov 15 20:21:55 1999 Mon, 15 Nov 1999 21:21:39 -0500 Subject: Re: sanding sections boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF2FAE.D2CF9E20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF2FAE.D2CF9E20 A.J. Grey Poupon, indeed!! Dijonais works just fine for me, with just a =pinch of Cross & Blackwell's horseradish. cheers, Bill Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999 1:46 PMSubject: Re: sanding sections Bob Nunley wrote: Well, maybe it is a waste of time, but at an average of about $400 =persection, I guess I'll keep on wasting my time. My customers sure =seemto like it! Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: WILLIAM A HARMS rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 7:21 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections Jerry, If you allow adequate drying time between coats (at leastthree days), there's no need to use anything finer than400-grit (if wet-sanded with mineral spirits), or 600-grit(if dry-sanded). The varnish, whether dipped or brushed,will easily fill the "scratch" left by the grit of thesepapers. You can use 1000-grit or finer, of course, but youare only wasting your time. An optimal sanding procedure isone that efficiently levels off the offendingparticles--leaving behind only the amount of"tooth" that can be filled (and obscured) by the next coat,but not so fine that it reduces good mechanical adhesion. Now, in preparing for final polishing, you would want tofinish with something like 2000-grit wet-sand. But this isa different situation. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: Jerry Madigan Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 8:47 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections That makes sense for the bamboo. Many, includingWayne, recommend 1000 or finer for work betweenfinishcoats. Other thoughts? --- WILLIAM A HARMS wrote:All, There is no need whatever to go all the way downto1200-grit before varnishing cane. Any varnishwill easily hide the "tooth" left from highqualitywet-or-dry 400-grit paper. Finer grits arenothingbut overkill on bamboo, accomplishing nothing inthequality of the finish. If you were dealing withwood, that would be a different matter, as woodhaspores in its grain, and miniscule fibers thatmayfuzz-up. Bamboo, however, causes neither oftheseproblems. cheers, Bill----- Original Message -----From: Bob Nunley Cc: Rod Makers List ServeSent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 4:54 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections John,I have never had any problem with myvarnishsticking to my rodsections. I have always sanded down to a 1200grit. I know on wood this isnot standard, but bamboo isn't wood....technically, it is a grass and doesreact different to varnish than wood does. Iwasa violin maker before Iwas a rodmaker, and i never went finer than600 ona violin back (maple) or400 on a top (sitka spruce) but since my firstrod, many many years ago, Ihave always gone to 1200 on my cane sections,andno trouble yet. Ofcourse, I am very meticulous in myvarnishing. Ihave a dustproofvarnishing room and setup, wear latex gloveswhenhandling the sectionsbefore varnishing and after thoroughlycleaningand degreasing withdenatured alcohol. On bamboo, I think the keytogetting the varnish tostay on the section, isn't so much the textureofthe surface, as it is withwood, but the cleanliness of the surface.Just my opinion, of course. Bob-----Original Message-----From: channer Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 6:22 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections At 09:18 AM 11/09/1999 -0600, Bob Nunleywrote:"" "" So, yesterday, I glued upaset of 6 unmatched scrapstrips and gave it a try thismorning.At this pointmy only concern was "" If itdoesscrew up as it cures, Iwill post more, if not, you won't hear frommeon this again... it lookslike it is going to do great. toomuchtime on my hands? LOLLater, Bob "" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rods =http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htmBob;The only problem that I can forsee is thatthevarnish may not stick to therod, not because of the water, but becauseyouhave polished it too muchand the rod has no "tooth" for the varnish tostick to.Furniture finisherswill only go so fine on bare wood beforevarnishing, further polishing isdone to the coats of finish themselves astherewill also be a chemicalbond as well as a physical bond. I havestrippedsome old rods that lokkedvery nice in the few places the finish wasstillintact, but when I got allthe varnish off the surface looked to besandedno finer than 150 grit. Igo finer, down to about 450(50micron,whateverthe equivalent is) and havetested to see if I can flake the curedvarnishoff with my fingernail, itstayed on very well, but I have noticed thatif Igo to 1200 grit first,the varnish will come off with little effort.John =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com I hear that Grey Poupon works well as a sanding lubricant.A.J. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF2FAE.D2CF9E20 A.J. Grey Poupon, = Blackwell's horseradish. Bill ----- Original Message ----- Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999= PMSubject: Re: sanding =sections = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 7:21 = drying time between coats (at = one = efficiently levels off the = = = =----- = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =----- = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =Message----- = = = = = = = = = = = If = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.comI= lubricant.A.J. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF2FAE.D2CF9E20-- from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Mon Nov 15 20:33:11 1999 (5.5.2448.0) "Roberts, Michael",rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: First Rod - Good news and bad Eric,Tony Young is fishing with Ian Kearny in New Zealand as we speak so,if Ian is keeping an eye on the list, he should see this and be able to giveyou a weather report. Have a great time !! Mike ps. I hope it was ok dobbing you in as the weather man Ian. Eric Sweet wrote: Anyway, I'll soon be, sortof, in your neck of the woods, hope you've gotsome nice weather for me! Eric from caneman@clnk.com Mon Nov 15 20:36:10 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 15 Nov 1999 20:34:36 -0600 Subject: Re: sanding sections boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0279_01BF2FA8.AC5DC1A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0279_01BF2FA8.AC5DC1A0 Someone else asked me about that, and I guess there are two =reasons... First, Rodmaking is all I do. It is my profession, so I get =a lot more practice at it, and have a lot more time to refine the way I =do things than most rodmakers do. In that, I feel very fortunate. As = is a letter I sent to another member of the rodlist describing my shop =and the way i go through the process. Only time I have to slow down is =if I trip over a pile of shavings between work stations! LOL (that =happens tooooooooo often!!!)Anyways, here is the description... all you need is plenty of room =(which I don't have, but I try to utilize the space I have as best I =can), and plenty of good solid work benches. A couple of extra sets of =forms are nice as are extra sets of roughing forms. If you'll notice in =the first paragraph, I mention a mild stroke I had a couple of years =ago... this "layoff" time gave me plenty of time to rethink my process =and make the best possible use of my time. I really had no choice. I =am completely recovered now, but for quite some time, i had a bit of an =endurance problem so I had to do all phases of my rodmaking with the =utmost effeciency! Those that met me at the SRG may tell you that the =stroke left residual brain damage, but that was there before! LOL I do =however, blame it for this hair loss thing (hell, ya gotta blame =something). In the past three years, I have only build 26 rods, but please consider =that I had a mild stroke in June of 97, and that set me down for awhile. =Yep, I can split, straighten, bevel, heat treat and taper in 6 hours. = My shop has two walls lined with benches. First is my spliting = Three steps away is my straightening station. All that is there is =my heat gun, and four 8" jawed machine vices. I can work strips to = Three more steps to my roughing bench. My roughing forms (three = OK, now I have to go across the room. Next station is my binding =station. I bind the strips here for heat treating. As soon as I get to =this station, I turn my oven on and let it stabelize. I bind the =sections I have there and put them in the oven as soon as all are bound. = Out of the oven, and onto the bench! Now I go get a cup of coffee! = After the java is done, the strips are unbound at the next station, =where I have three sets of planing forms. I have a 3/8" brass pin set =in the bench and each form has a 3/8" hole in it, so whichever form I am =going to use, I just pin it to the bench. That saves a few minutes just =not wrestling the forms. Of course, I have one form set up for tips, =one set up for butts, and another for anything out of the ordinary that =comes up. This saves me a lot of time, because I don't have to adjust = Well, as soon as they are tapered, I tape them together and =meticulously check each joint and do any fine sanding I need to for a = The rest is just like everyone else. And the rest of my shop... =well that is taken up with table saw, Metal Lathe, Drill press, 6" belt =sander, and a varnishing room off the end.My only advantage is that I have a shop that is for nothing but my =bamboo rods. Well, my Harley will sit in the middle of it sometimes, =but not too often. I have my stations in order on different benches and =can simply walk a couple of steps from station to station without having =to clean up, put things away, and get out other tools. Organization is =all it really is, not talent, not magic. I am just lucky enough to have =enough room, and plenty of tools that each station is complete and ready =to work at, at any time, and I don't have to run back and forth, getting =planes, switching forms, etc. Hope that helps explain how I do this in six hours. Of course, =sometimes, like I said, things don't go just right and I am out there = day and I am ready to tape the tapered strips and check for proper fit. =Oh, yeah, another thing that don't hurt. I am about 6'4" and wear 38" =shirt sleeves. I can go from one end to the other of a 48 inch strip =without moving my feet. Hell to find a long sleeve shirt that fits, =but really nice when planing! *S* Tight lines and straight splits!Bob-----Original Message-----From: WILLIAM A HARMS Cc: Rod Makers List Serve Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 7:53 PMSubject: Re: sanding sections Bob, Thanks for this thorough explanation of your finishing techniques. =There's no doubt in my mind that your rods must be spectacular in =appearance. It is easy to understand why you want to take such care =with the grit of paper when you sand each of your coats down to such a =fine film (and why you would need five or six coats). Clearly, 400-grit =paper would work too fast if your objective is to remove all but a = It would appear to me that what you are trying to attain with your =technique are truly sharp corners and truly flat flats--and the multiple =coats (with repeated sanding) helps to build that. But, otherwise, I =can't really see how the final surface of the finish would be enhanced = process is always a different matter, and I, too, work up to the =1200-grit prior to polishing.) But all this discussion really becomes =pretty academic, because each of us who really cares about the =appearance of our rods works out his own technique and soon, that = I think the only part of your description I can't even begin to =grasp, now, is the part about being able to "split, straighten, bevel, =heat treat and taper" a rod (2 piece, 2 tip) in one morning easily." =Those steps have always taken me at least two days. So, my hat's off to =you, Bob. You da MAN ! Thanks for comparing notes, Bob, and for sharing your techniques. cheers, Bill ------=_NextPart_000_0279_01BF2FA8.AC5DC1A0 Bill, = that, and I guess there are two reasons... First, Rodmaking is all I = It is my profession, so I get a lot more practice at it, and have a lot = here is = description... all you need is plenty of room (which I don't have, but I = of roughing forms. If you'll notice in the first paragraph, I mention a = stroke I had a couple of years ago... this "layoff" time gave = plenty of time to rethink my process and make the best possible use of = quite some time, i had a bit of an endurance problem so I had to do all = = may tell you that the stroke left residual brain damage, but that was = ya gotta blame something). In the past threeyears, = build 26 rods, but please consider that I had a mild stroke in June of = that set me down for awhile. Yep, I can split, straighten, bevel, heat = My = Three = Three = OK, = Out = After = done, the strips are unbound at the next station, where I have three = has a 3/8" hole in it, so whichever form I am going to use, I just = Of course, I have one form set up for tips, one set up for butts, and = time, because I don't have to adjust the forms very much at all to get = Well, = they are tapered, I tape them together and meticulously check each joint = The = table saw, Metal Lathe, Drill press, 6" belt sander, and a = off the end. My = my stations in order on different benches and can simply walk a couple = from station to station without having to clean up, put things away, and = that each station is complete and ready to work at, at any time, and I = etc. helps = just right and I am out there for 10 or even 12 hours, trying to get a = ready, but usually, half a day and I am ready to tape the tapered strips = *S* Tight lines and straight splits!Bob -----Original = = Makers List Serve <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, November 15, 1999 7:53 PMSubject: Re: sanding= sectionsBob, Thanks for this= understand why you want to take such care with the grit of paper = sand each of your coats down to such a fine film (and why you would = It would appear= corners and truly flat flats--and the multiple coats (with repeated = academic, because each of us who really cares about the appearance = I think the only= description I can't even begin to grasp, now, is the part about = to "split, straighten, bevel, heat treat and taper" a rod = ! Thanks for = Bob, and for sharing your techniques. Bill ------=_NextPart_000_0279_01BF2FA8.AC5DC1A0-- from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 15 21:10:03 1999 Subject: torch Here's a source for a "very hot" torch. It is sold by Harbor Freight andcomes with a 6' hose and a fitting that screws into a 20lb propane tankthat you use on your gas grill. Not for the faint of heart, this thingroars when you light it up. They don't say what the BTU's is but I expectit is near the 150K that Wayne has. It has a knob to adjust the flame sizeand a leaver for the "turbo" mode. This controls a valve that turns itwide open. It has no safety features and when on turbo, it puts out aflame a good 3 feet long and 8 to 10 inches across. It will flame a culmas fast as you can move it over the bamboo. The only disagreeable featureis it is a wand design with the torch head on a 18" by 3/8" steel tube.However if you cut the tube at about 1" from the handle and the torch head,throw away the 16" piece of steel tubing and connect the head and handlewith a 3/8" compression union, you have a dandy torch. The cost is $19.xxregular and $15.xx on sale which has been about half the time for the last6 or eight months. The SK# is 36346. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from cphisey@neca.com Mon Nov 15 21:22:15 1999 Subject: Looking for info on Hardy Greenheart Rod To the List;I have just recieved a greenheart rod that was my grandfather's rodand was wondering if there is anyone on the list that would have any infoonthis rod.It is a 3/2 9' marked "The Alnwick Greenheart Rod" in an upwardspiral on the butt.Tips are 38 1/2" (one tip down 1 1/2"),mid is 391/8",andthe butt is 28 1/2".These lengths agree with the Hardy rod bag that issewnto these lenths.Butt has no handle or reel seat ,only heavy wraps at butt and 11" up from butt.TIA for any enlightenment regarding this rod. Charles Hisey from ROBERT.KOPE@prodigy.net Mon Nov 15 21:26:17 1999 Mon, 15 Nov 1999 22:26:02 -0500 Subject: Re: oak planing forms Darin, I don't think the hardness of the wood is as critical as the how smooth thegrooves in the finished forms are. Red oak has large open pores ( I thinkthis is what Harry Boyd refers to as gum lines). White oak also has largepores, but they are filled with resin. Hickory is denser, but also haslarge pores, though they are fewer and further apart. The pores in these woods are large enough that if you hapen to get one ofthese pores in the groove near the tip of the tip side of your forms, itwill severely compromise the accuracy of the forms where accuracy ismostcritical. Maple doesn't have large pores so it's much more suitable forforms than the woods you are working with. I agree with Harry that steelforms are not much more difficult, or much more expensive, to make andarewell worth the extra effort they require for construction. ThomasPenrose'spage has excellent instructions for constructing steel forms. -- Robert Kope -----Original Message----- Subject: oak planing forms I have heard that maple is the wood of choice for planing forms. I have acouple of six foot pieces of red oak; will red oak work? I just finisheda planing form out of hickory but it was a little short. So, when afriend gave me the oak, I thought that making a longer spare set ofplaning forms would be to my advantage. Why is maple the choice wood, is it because of the long straight grain oris it just harder than oak? Thanks for your time. Darin Law from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Mon Nov 15 21:29:36 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id PAA22583; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 15:30:01 +1300 ,"Roberts, Michael" ,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: First Rod - Good news and bad Well, The rivers are just clearing in our area after about 2 weeks rain. I hope toget out fishing tomorrow. I have just finished a Wayne C 8' #5 taper whichcast beautifully on the front lawn and i am keen to try it on the water. There has been very heavy rain on the bottom of the South Island yesterdayand a lot of flooding so Eric will probably head north from Christchurchandfish the Buller system and the Nelson district. The Maruia is a great riverto fish a little way from Springs Junctions Eric, ( Tony Busch's book hasthe access points in it ). It is windy here today , some rain forecast inthe hills for Thursday. Tony is likely to be here Thursday , Friday and heading home on Saturday. regards Ian Kearney At 09:19 AM 16/11/99 +0800, Roberts, Michael wrote:Eric,Tony Young is fishing with Ian Kearny in New Zealand as we speak so,if Ian is keeping an eye on the list, he should see this and be able to giveyou a weather report. Have a great time !! Mike ps. I hope it was ok dobbing you in as the weather man Ian. Eric Sweet wrote: Anyway, I'll soon be, sortof, in your neck of the woods, hope you've gotsome nice weather for me! Eric from flyman35@home.com Mon Nov 15 21:40:41 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP ;Mon, 15 Nov 1999 19:40:37 -0800 Subject: Re: oak planing forms I've used maple, poplar, calif. red oak, and birch. I agree with therest that oak has too large of pores to produce accurate grooves. Birchis very comparable to maple, and I've found that birch comes a lotstraighter than maple. Poplar would be my third choice after maple andbirch, respectively. It is fine grained, although it is not as hard asmaple. For what it lacks, it makes up in low cost. Matt Robert Kope wrote: Darin, I don't think the hardness of the wood is as critical as the how smooththegrooves in the finished forms are. Red oak has large open pores ( I thinkthis is what Harry Boyd refers to as gum lines). White oak also has largepores, but they are filled with resin. Hickory is denser, but also haslarge pores, though they are fewer and further apart. The pores in these woods are large enough that if you hapen to get one ofthese pores in the groove near the tip of the tip side of your forms, itwill severely compromise the accuracy of the forms where accuracy ismostcritical. Maple doesn't have large pores so it's much more suitable forforms than the woods you are working with. I agree with Harry thatsteelforms are not much more difficult, or much more expensive, to make andarewell worth the extra effort they require for construction. ThomasPenrose'spage has excellent instructions for constructing steel forms. -- Robert Kope -----Original Message-----From: Darin J Law Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 7:56 AMSubject: oak planing forms I have heard that maple is the wood of choice for planing forms. I haveacouple of six foot pieces of red oak; will red oak work? I just finisheda planing form out of hickory but it was a little short. So, when afriend gave me the oak, I thought that making a longer spare set ofplaning forms would be to my advantage. Why is maple the choice wood, is it because of the long straight grainoris it just harder than oak? Thanks for your time. Darin Law from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Nov 15 23:00:22 1999 , Subject: Re: First Rod - Good news and bad Another New Zealand hint,If you're going to be on the North Island, try the Waiau (spelling?) on theeast coast up near Rapunga. It was fantastic for me.Ray Gould----- Original Message ----- Michael; Subject: RE: First Rod - Good news and bad Well, The rivers are just clearing in our area after about 2 weeks rain. I hopetoget out fishing tomorrow. I have just finished a Wayne C 8' #5 taperwhichcast beautifully on the front lawn and i am keen to try it on the water. There has been very heavy rain on the bottom of the South Islandyesterdayand a lot of flooding so Eric will probably head north from Christchurchandfish the Buller system and the Nelson district. The Maruia is a greatriverto fish a little way from Springs Junctions Eric, ( Tony Busch's book hasthe access points in it ). It is windy here today , some rain forecast inthe hills for Thursday. Tony is likely to be here Thursday , Friday and heading home on Saturday. regards Ian Kearney At 09:19 AM 16/11/99 +0800, Roberts, Michael wrote:Eric,Tony Young is fishing with Ian Kearny in New Zealand as we speak so,if Ian is keeping an eye on the list, he should see this and be able togiveyou a weather report. Have a great time !! Mike ps. I hope it was ok dobbing you in as the weather man Ian. Eric Sweet wrote: Anyway, I'll soon be, sortof, in your neck of the woods, hope you've gotsomenice weather for me! Eric from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Nov 15 23:19:09 1999 Subject: Re: Looking for info on Hardy Greenheart Rod Hi Charles,Hardy made a couple of rods using the name "Alnwick Greenheart". One wascalled "Celebrated Alnwick Greenheart" and it was made in lengths from9'-20' in 3 piece rods. These were made from 1886 - 1952. The other wascalled"Second Quality Alnwick Greenheart" and was made in lengths from 10'-20'.These were made from 1894-1917 and were also 3 piece rods.Ray Gould----- Original Message - ---- Subject: Looking for info on Hardy Greenheart Rod To the List;I have just recieved a greenheart rod that was my grandfather'srodand was wondering if there is anyone on the list that would have any infoonthis rod.It is a 3/2 9' marked "The Alnwick Greenheart Rod" in an upwardspiral on the butt.Tips are 38 1/2" (one tip down 1 1/2"),mid is 391/8",andthe butt is 28 1/2".These lengths agree with the Hardy rod bag that issewnto these lenths.Butt has no handle or reel seat ,only heavy wraps at butt and 11"up from butt.TIA for any enlightenment regarding this rod. Charles Hisey from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Mon Nov 15 23:24:42 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id RAA08825; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 17:25:12 +1300 Subject: Re: Looking for info on Hardy Greenheart Rod Charles, Hardy made an Alnwick Greenheart rod between 1894 and 1917.Length islistedas between 10' and 20' but there may have been shorter versions . It is notuncommon for Hardy rods to have sections of different length. It wouldprobably have had the name and the rod number in the reel seat and buttfittings . The reel seat was probably sliding rings or the patented Hardyfitting with a single sliding ring. Sorry i cannot help further. Ian Kearney At 10:22 PM 15/11/99 -0500, Charles Hisey wrote:To the List;I have just recieved a greenheart rod that was my grandfather's rodand was wondering if there is anyone on the list that would have any infoonthis rod.It is a 3/2 9' marked "The Alnwick Greenheart Rod" in an upwardspiral on the butt.Tips are 38 1/2" (one tip down 1 1/2"),mid is 391/8",andthe butt is 28 1/2".These lengths agree with the Hardy rod bag that issewnto these lenths.Butt has no handle or reel seat ,only heavy wraps at butt and 11" up from butt.TIA for any enlightenment regarding this rod. Charles Hisey from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Tue Nov 16 08:49:02 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: New source of Tonkin cane CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Darryl, Did Mr. Chan say where the bamboo came from? Is he an importer or agrower? Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu Same source as Andy Royer. from brewer@teleport.com Tue Nov 16 10:30:19 1999 "hamachi"via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAA0JXvMN; Tue Nov 1608:30:07 1999 Subject: Re: sanding sections I prefer Inglehoffer. It has more grit.----- Original Message -----From: WILLIAM A HARMS Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSent: Monday, November 15, 1999 9:17 PMSubject: Re: sanding sections A.J. Grey Poupon, indeed!! Dijonais works just fine for me, with just a pinchof Cross & Blackwell's horseradish. cheers, Bill----- Original Message -----From: A.J.Thramer Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSent: Monday, November 15, 1999 1:46 PMSubject: Re: sanding sections Bob Nunley wrote: Well, maybe it is a waste of time, but at an average of about $400 persection, I guess I'll keep on wasting my time. My customers sure seemto like it! Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: WILLIAM A HARMS rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 7:21 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections Jerry, If you allow adequate drying time between coats (at leastthree days), there's no need to use anything finer than400-grit (if wet-sanded with mineral spirits), or 600-grit(if dry-sanded). The varnish, whether dipped or brushed,will easily fill the "scratch" left by the grit of thesepapers. You can use 1000-grit or finer, of course, but youare only wasting your time. An optimal sanding procedure isone that efficiently levels off the offendingparticles--leaving behind only the amount of"tooth" that can be filled (and obscured) by the next coat,but not so fine that it reduces good mechanical adhesion. Now, in preparing for final polishing, you would want tofinish with something like 2000-grit wet-sand. But this isa different situation. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: Jerry Madigan Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 8:47 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections That makes sense for the bamboo. Many, includingWayne, recommend 1000 or finer for work betweenfinishcoats. Other thoughts? --- WILLIAM A HARMS wrote:All, There is no need whatever to go all the way downto1200-grit before varnishing cane. Any varnishwill easily hide the "tooth" left from highqualitywet-or-dry 400-grit paper. Finer grits arenothingbut overkill on bamboo, accomplishing nothing inthequality of the finish. If you were dealing withwood, that would be a different matter, as woodhaspores in its grain, and miniscule fibers thatmayfuzz-up. Bamboo, however, causes neither oftheseproblems. cheers, Bill----- Original Message -----From: Bob Nunley Cc: Rod Makers List ServeSent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 4:54 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections John,I have never had any problem with myvarnishsticking to my rodsections. I have always sanded down to a 1200grit. I know on wood this isnot standard, but bamboo isn't wood....technically, it is a grass and doesreact different to varnish than wood does. Iwasa violin maker before Iwas a rodmaker, and i never went finer than600 ona violin back (maple) or400 on a top (sitka spruce) but since my firstrod, many many years ago, Ihave always gone to 1200 on my cane sections,andno trouble yet. Ofcourse, I am very meticulous in myvarnishing. Ihave a dustproofvarnishing room and setup, wear latex gloveswhenhandling the sectionsbefore varnishing and after thoroughlycleaningand degreasing withdenatured alcohol. On bamboo, I think the keytogetting the varnish tostay on the section, isn't so much the textureofthe surface, as it is withwood, but the cleanliness of the surface.Just my opinion, of course. Bob-----Original Message-----From: channer Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 6:22 AMSubject: Re: sanding sections At 09:18 AM 11/09/1999 -0600, Bob Nunleywrote:"" "" So, yesterday, I glued upaset of 6 unmatched scrapstrips and gave it a try thismorning.At this pointmy only concern was "" If itdoesscrew up as it cures, Iwill post more, if not, you won't hear frommeon this again... it lookslike it is going to do great. toomuchtime on my hands? LOLLater, Bob "" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rods http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htmBob;The only problem that I can forsee is thatthevarnish may not stick to therod, not because of the water, but becauseyouhave polished it too muchand the rod has no "tooth" for the varnish tostick to.Furniture finisherswill only go so fine on bare wood beforevarnishing, further polishing isdone to the coats of finish themselves astherewill also be a chemicalbond as well as a physical bond. I havestrippedsome old rods that lokkedvery nice in the few places the finish wasstillintact, but when I got allthe varnish off the surface looked to besandedno finer than 150 grit. Igo finer, down to about 450(50micron,whateverthe equivalent is) and havetested to see if I can flake the curedvarnishoff with my fingernail, itstayed on very well, but I have noticed thatif Igo to 1200 grit first,the varnish will come off with little effort.John ===== __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com I hear that Grey Poupon works well as a sanding lubricant.A.J. from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Nov 16 16:08:56 1999 1999 14:08:52 PST Subject: crooked creek crisis friends, in response to the issue of crooked creek inarkansas as presented on this list last week i wrotethe following to the govenor of the state. alsofollowing is the response for anyone intrested. timothy troester ---------- ------ mr. governor, we need to clean up crooked creek. there is mining going on all over the country and itis possible to mine and take care of our rivers. ibelieve in my heart that in the long run it does payto "give a damn and do what's right." as far as thebig money people that are opposed to doing "what'sright," it is said that "...a government that robspeter to pay paul can always count on the support ofpaul," but not of this peter. timothy troester ------------------ Subject: Crooked Creek Add Addresses November 16, 1999 Mr. Timothy Troester Dear Mr. Troester: Thank you for your recent e-mail concerning CrookedCreek. I amGovernorHuckabee -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ?s liaison for environmental issues, and he hasasked that Irespond to your letter. Protecting the environment is very often a tough balancing act. Thegovernor believes our strong desire to protect ourstate?s preciousnaturalresources must be balanced with respect for ourConstitutionally-guaranteedproperty rights; with protection of reasonable access to ournaturalresources by tourists, naturalists and sportsenthusiasts; and withourcommitment to not strangle business and industry with burdensomeregulation. The Commissioners appointed by theGovernor to thePollutionControl and Ecology Commission are fully aware ofthe Governor?sstrongfeelings on each of these issues. The Pollution Control and Ecology Commission held ameeting recentlywhichpassed some proposals to limit gravel mining inArkansas waterways. Theseproposed changes are in effect until December 23,1999. Thesetemporaryrestrictions took effect in June. Again, thank you for your e-mail. The governorvalues feedbackandappreciates your efforts to preserve Arkansas' naturalresources. Sincerely yours, Mark WhiteRegulatory Liaison MW:arl ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from oossg@vbe.com Tue Nov 16 16:38:18 1999 Subject: Sanding Sealer from a newcomer, Does anyone have any experience with the VALSPAR Polyurethane SandingSealer?It would appear this product is designed to be sanded down and used as abase for their regular polyurethane finish. It says it doesn't load upthe sand paper. Scott from mevans@acxiom.com Tue Nov 16 17:05:05 1999 (router,SLMail V3.2); Tue, 16 Nov 1999 17:08:24 -0600 (router,SLMail V3.2); Tue, 16 Nov 1999 17:06:17 -0600 (204.107.111.23::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Tue, 16 Nov1999 17:06:17-0600 popmail.conway.acxiom.com ; Tue Nov 1617:06:06 1999 -0600 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: FW: Crooked Creek boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01BF3087.8761614C" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01BF3087.8761614C Tim - et. al., Surprise! I got the same letter from the governor on crooked creek. Back to the workbench .... -----Original Message----- Subject: Crooked Creek November 16, 1999 Mr. Mark R. EvansLittle Rock, AR Dear Mr. Evans: Thank you for your recent e-mail concerning Crooked Creek. I amGovernorHuckabee ------_=_NextPart_000_01BF3087.8761614C name="ATT249426.txt" filename="ATT249426.txt" ?s liaison for environmental issues, and he has asked that Irespond to your e-mail. Protecting the environment is very often a tough balancing act. Thegovernor believes our strong desire to protect our state?s preciousnaturalresources must be balanced with respect for our Constitutionally-guaranteedproperty rights; with protection of reasonable access to our naturalresources by tourists, naturalists and sports enthusiasts; and with ourcommitment to not strangle business and industry with burdensomeregulation. The Commissioners appointed by the Governor to thePollutionControl and Ecology Commission are fully aware of the Governor?sstrongfeelings on each of these issues. The Pollution Control and Ecology Commission held a meeting recentlywhichpassed some proposals to limit gravel mining in Arkansas waterways. Theseproposed changes are in effect until December 23, 1999. Thesetemporaryrestrictions took effect in June. Again, thank you for your e-mail. The governor values feedback andappreciates your efforts to preserve and promote Arkansas' naturalresources. Sincerely yours, Mark WhiteRegulatory Liaison MW:arl ------_=_NextPart_000_01BF3087.8761614C-- from anglport@con2.com Tue Nov 16 17:17:58 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A5D8BAA0288; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:16:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Sanding Sealer Scott,No personal experience with that product, but others smell an awfullotlike shellac and may be usable as color-preservatives. (I'm thinking ofFablon's "Pryme".) If you have some sitting around it might be worth a try.I'm not sure enough of my hypothesis to actually suggest you BUY thestuff.It's just a thought.Art At 04:34 PM 11/16/1999 -0600, Scott Grady wrote: from a newcomer, Does anyone have any experience with the VALSPAR Polyurethane SandingSealer?It would appear this product is designed to be sanded down and used as abase for their regular polyurethane finish. It says it doesn't load upthe sand paper. Scott *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun, but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Tue Nov 16 18:02:48 1999 Subject: Powered sharpeners As the holiday season nears I am formulating my wish list for Santa andwondered if anyone has any experince or advice on powered sharpenerssuchas the Tormek, Makita, or Delta. TIADavid from Turbotrk@aol.com Tue Nov 16 18:51:49 1999 Subject: Belts What does anyone recomend for a drive belt on a garrison type binder. I am using heavy nylon that I burned the ends smooth and then sow toghther the ends to make a smooth transition instead of a knot. Any better ideas? stuart miller from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Nov 16 19:13:39 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Tue, 16 Nov 1999 17:13:35 -0800 "Turbotrk@aol.com" Subject: Re: Belts Stuart See my article on the Garrison binder - it also includes info on thedrivebeltthat works just fine. Go to http://www.canerod.com/Tools/Index.html andselectthe Garrison Binder menu item. It is near the end of the article. Chris On Tue, 16 Nov 1999 19:51:05 EST, Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: What does anyone recomend for a drive belt on a garrison type binder. Iam using heavy nylon that I burned the ends smooth and then sow toghtherthe ends to make a smooth transition instead of a knot. Any better ideas? stuart miller from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Nov 16 19:38:37 1999 SMTP id RAA29690; Subject: Re: Powered sharpeners I have the Tormek and it is worth every penny. Granted I have everyaccessory and it didn't cost me anything but it's a great tool. I sharpenPlanner blades, Plane blades, chisels and be extra careful with the knivesin my kitchen. The Delta is good, the Makita is a piece of crap and the ryobi is okay. Atone time I had all of the combination sharpeners and the Tormek was theabsolute best. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Powered sharpeners As the holiday season nears I am formulating my wish list for Santa andwondered if anyone has any experince or advice on powered sharpenerssuchas the Tormek, Makita, or Delta. TIADavid from rosegene@uswest.net Tue Nov 16 21:02:58 1999 (207.225.89.73) Subject: unsubscribe going away for a spell, would like the messages to not overwhelm theelectronic box...please unsubscribe from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Nov 16 21:08:27 1999 Tue, 16 Nov 1999 19:08:09 -0800 Subject: Re: Powered sharpeners David,You really should check out Tom Smithwick / George Barnes electricmotorpowered leather strop. It works like a charm. At one time Tom had somepictures posted. I think someone else did as well, but I don't have eitherURL Harry "D.P. Van Burgel & K.J. Scott" wrote: As the holiday season nears I am formulating my wish list for Santa andwondered if anyone has any experince or advice on powered sharpenerssuchas the Tormek, Makita, or Delta. TIADavid from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Nov 16 21:18:58 1999 Tue, 16 Nov 1999 19:18:49 -0800 Subject: Re: Belts Stuart,I use 80 lb. nylon kite string. Works like a charm. If you need some,let me know. I bought a lifetime supply for two or three of us. I'll send itto you when you let me know about the other matter. Hint, hint. Harry Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: What does anyone recomend for a drive belt on a garrison type binder. Iamusing heavy nylon that I burned the ends smooth and then sow toghthertheends to make a smooth transition instead of a knot. Any better ideas? stuart miller from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Nov 16 22:13:27 1999 Subject: Re: Powered sharpeners dpvbkjs@somtel.com In a message dated 11/17/99 3:13:52 AM, fbcwin@3g.quik.com wrote: Harry - There is a photo at Chris Bogart's web site in the rodmaking class section. I suspect this setup is as good as anything out there, and won't make a dent in anyone's checkbook. I have not used a bench stone since Iset this up. I'll bet you haven't either. from saweiss@flash.net Wed Nov 17 00:34:51 1999 Subject: bamboo dust boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0041_01BF308B.3ECD69E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BF308B.3ECD69E0 I am definitely sensitive to bamboo dust. I don't think it's an allergy, =probably an irritation. I get a cough that reminds me of my smoking days =before I quit. Now I use a dust mask whenever I'm sanding.Anyone experiencing this? Maybe there will be a new disease described in=the medical literature called Bamboo Lung.Steve Weiss ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BF308B.3ECD69E0 I am definitely sensitive tobamboo = don't think it's an allergy, probably an irritation. I get a cough that = me of my smoking days before I quit. Now I use a dust mask whenever sanding.Anyone experiencing this? Maybe= new disease described in the medical literature called Bamboo =Lung.Steve =Weiss ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BF308B.3ECD69E0-- from tragich23@juno.com Wed Nov 17 04:20:10 1999 05:18:43 EST Subject: Re: bamboo dust DOESN'T THE WORLD HAVE ENOUGH DISEASES WITHOUT BAMBOO LUNG. I TOOHAVEEXPERIENCED THE EFFECTS OF BAMBOO DUST COUGHING. I TRY TO WEAR AMASKBUT MY GLASSES GET FOGGED. I THINK THE GLUES THAT WE USE ARE MORE DANGEROUS THAN THE BAMBOO DUST. ON MY MOST RECENT CONTAINER ITSAID,"THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA HAS DETERMINED THAT THIS PRODUCT CANCAUSECANCER". THIS IS A SCARRY THIUGHT CONSIDERING MY WIFE SPENT HERSUMMERRECOVERING from A VERY AGRESSIVE CANCER .( THE DOCTOR SAID THEREIS NOCAUSE OR REASON, JUST AN ANOMOLY){AINT THAT THE SHITS} DOESANYONE OUTTHERE USE AN AIR FILTER SYSTEM WHILE THEY ARE BUILDING?AI On Tue, 16 Nov 1999 23:35:20 -0700 "Steven Weiss" writes:I am definitely sensitive to bamboo dust. I don't think it's an allergy, probably an irritation. I get a cough that reminds me of my smoking days before I quit. Now I use a dust mask whenever I'm sanding.Anyone experiencing this? Maybe there will be a new disease described in the medical literature called Bamboo Lung.Steve Weiss from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Nov 17 06:36:04 1999 Subject: Re: bamboo dust Steve,I too have experienced this irritation. I started using a dust mask years ago.Bret from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Nov 17 06:53:41 1999 [205.167.143.106] (may beforged)) Wed, 17 Nov 1999 06:53:08 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: bamboo dust Don't know if this will helpI had the same problem with glasses fogging. I found if I squeeze the topof the mask and fit it under the nose rest of the glasses so that no airleaks my glasses don't fog up. I use the masks with a narrow aluminumstripacross the top where it goes over your nose. I just squeeze it to fit mynose.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com ANDREW J INGRAM wrote: DOESN'T THE WORLD HAVE ENOUGH DISEASES WITHOUT BAMBOO LUNG. ITOO HAVEEXPERIENCED THE EFFECTS OF BAMBOO DUST COUGHING. I TRY TO WEAR AMASKBUT MY GLASSES GET FOGGED. I THINK THE GLUES THAT WE USE ARE MOREDANGEROUS THAN THE BAMBOO DUST. ON MY MOST RECENT CONTAINER ITSAID,"THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA HAS DETERMINED THAT THIS PRODUCT CANCAUSECANCER". THIS IS A SCARRY THIUGHT CONSIDERING MY WIFE SPENT HERSUMMERRECOVERING from A VERY AGRESSIVE CANCER .( THE DOCTOR SAID THEREIS NOCAUSE OR REASON, JUST AN ANOMOLY){AINT THAT THE SHITS} DOESANYONE OUTTHERE USE AN AIR FILTER SYSTEM WHILE THEY ARE BUILDING?AI On Tue, 16 Nov 1999 23:35:20 -0700 "Steven Weiss" writes:I am definitely sensitive to bamboo dust. I don't think it's anallergy, probably an irritation. I get a cough that reminds me of mysmoking days before I quit. Now I use a dust mask whenever I'msanding.Anyone experiencing this? Maybe there will be a new diseasedescribed in the medical literature called Bamboo Lung.Steve Weiss from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Nov 17 07:01:12 1999 1999 05:01:09 PST Subject: Re: Powered sharpeners david, after spending money on several setups forsharpening, i'm using sandpaper on plate glass. it'scheap and easy, quick to setup and for me has worked timothy --- "D.P. Van Burgel & K.J. Scott"wrote:As the holiday season nears I am formulating my wishlist for Santa andwondered if anyone has any experince or advice onpowered sharpeners suchas the Tormek, Makita, or Delta. TIADavid ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Nov 17 07:22:05 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 17 Nov 1999 07:14:34 -0600 Subject: Re: bamboo dust boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0053_01BF30CC.707A7B40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BF30CC.707A7B40 Most allergy Dr's. will tell you, just about everyone is NOT immune to = I've spent over 60 years, sanding balsa, with no real problems. However, =when you start throwing fiber glass, and carbon fiber, plus epoxies into =the equation, not to mention the other glues, all sorts of things can =give us a fit ! I've even sprayed dopes, and epoxy enamels in a closed =garage area. Today, I use a charcoal filter system, but probably too =late ! GMA Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 12:35 AMSubject: bamboo dust I am definitely sensitive to bamboo dust. I don't think it's an =allergy, probably an irritation. I get a cough that reminds me of my =smoking days before I quit. Now I use a dust mask whenever I'm sanding.Anyone experiencing this? Maybe there will be a new disease described =in the medical literature called Bamboo Lung.Steve Weiss ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BF30CC.707A7B40 Most allergy Dr's. will tell you, just about= is NOT immune to some sort of DUST ! I've spent over 60 years, sanding balsa, = problems. However, when you start throwing fiber glass, and carbon = epoxies into the equation, not to mention the other glues, all sorts of = can give us a fit ! I've even sprayed dopes, and epoxy enamels in a = ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Steven= Sent: Wednesday, November 17, = AMSubject: bamboo dust I am definitely sensitive to = don't think it's an allergy, probably an irritation. I get a cough = reminds me of my smoking days before I quit. Now I use a dust mask = I'm sanding.Anyone experiencing this? Maybe= Lung. Weiss ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BF30CC.707A7B40-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Nov 17 08:23:45 1999 0800 Subject: Re: Powered sharpeners Tom,I only use a stone (diamond) to put the initial edge on carbide tippedblades. After that, it's the leather wheel all the way.Harry TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/17/99 3:13:52 AM, fbcwin@3g.quik.com wrote: URL>> Harry - There is a photo at Chris Bogart's web site in the rodmakingclasssection. I suspect this setup is as good as anything out there, and won'tmake a dent in anyone's checkbook. I have not used a bench stone since Isetthis up. I'll bet you haven't either. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Nov 17 08:39:25 1999 0800 Subject: Re: Powered sharpeners One more thing -- I should have told you that from the time I stopplaningtill I start again is from 45-60 seconds. Total. from removing the bladetoactually making shavings again. And with the carbide blades, I only haveto stopabout once per rod. Not bragging, just stating the facts.But that does create one problem. Former Listmember Jerry Quinn,who diedthis weekend, was my source for getting carbide brazed to plane blades. Doesanyone know another source? Harry from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Nov 17 09:22:26 1999 1999 07:22:23 PST Subject: Re: bamboo dust i had hives and my hands were swelling. i stoppedbrushing off my work surface with my bear hands andhave started using a brush or cloth. this has helpedalot. i often use a mask and the dust from filing andsanding bamboo blanks is like glass filings andabrasive. THERE ARE SAFER AND MORE REASONABLE WAYS TOSPEND OUR TIME GUYS. THERE WOULD BE ALOT MORE HAPPYRELATIONS IF WE'D ALL JUST WISE UP OR GROW UP. TIMOTHY --- ANDREW J INGRAM wrote:DOESN'T THE WORLD HAVE ENOUGH DISEASES WITHOUTBAMBOO LUNG. I TOO HAVEEXPERIENCED THE EFFECTS OF BAMBOO DUST COUGHING. ITRY TO WEAR A MASKBUT MY GLASSES GET FOGGED. I THINK THE GLUES THATWE USE ARE MORE DANGEROUS THAN THE BAMBOO DUST. ON MY MOST RECENTCONTAINER IT SAID,"THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA HAS DETERMINED THAT THISPRODUCT CAN CAUSECANCER". THIS IS A SCARRY THIUGHT CONSIDERING MYWIFE SPENT HER SUMMERRECOVERING from A VERY AGRESSIVE CANCER .( THEDOCTOR SAID THERE IS NOCAUSE OR REASON, JUST AN ANOMOLY){AINT THAT THESHITS} DOES ANYONE OUTTHERE USE AN AIR FILTER SYSTEM WHILE THEY AREBUILDING?AI On Tue, 16 Nov 1999 23:35:20 -0700 "Steven Weiss" writes:I am definitely sensitive to bamboo dust. I don'tthink it's an allergy, probably an irritation. I get a coughthat reminds me of my smoking days before I quit. Now I use a dust maskwhenever I'm sanding.Anyone experiencing this? Maybe there will be anew disease described in the medical literature called BambooLung.Steve Weiss ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from brewer@teleport.com Wed Nov 17 09:40:35 1999 "hamachi"via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAA0h9RWh; Wed Nov 1707:40:30 1999 Subject: Fw: Belts Squidding (or is it Squiddin' ?) line works just fine on my binder. It canprobably be found at a tackle shop that caters to saltwater fishing and/orcrabbing. It is a braided line that is a little thicker than fly line and isfairly easy to splice. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Belts What does anyone recomend for a drive belt on a garrison type binder. I amusing heavy nylon that I burned the ends smooth and then sow toghther theends to make a smooth transition instead of a knot. Any better ideas? stuart miller from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Nov 17 09:57:58 1999 1999 07:57:51 PST Subject: Re: Fw: Belts stuart, i use braided catfish line. and now that i'ma customer at the local bait shop i can put up a card.timothy --- Randy Brewer wrote:Squidding (or is it Squiddin' ?) line works justfine on my binder. It canprobably be found at a tackle shop that caters tosaltwater fishing and/orcrabbing. It is a braided line that is a littlethicker than fly line and isfairly easy to splice. ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 4:51 PMSubject: Belts What does anyone recomend for a drive belt on agarrison type binder. I amusing heavy nylon that I burned the ends smooth andthen sow toghther theends to make a smooth transition instead of a knot. Any better ideas? stuart miller ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Nov 17 12:14:55 1999 1999 10:14:45 PST Subject: longer wear on plane blades greetings! has anyone tried cryo treating theirplane blades yet? i'm checking into it now. timothytroester ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Nov 17 15:20:57 1999 Subject: bamboo earl, just received a price list in the post from progress trading and checkedout their web site.Examine the cane gif, the nodes look very close. I should think therewould not be much of a stagger with a couple of those culms.Has anyone ordered any cane that has this problem?Terryhttp://bamboopoles.com/flyrodpage.htm from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Nov 17 15:44:15 1999 Subject: Re: Belts Stuart,I use surveyers cord. It is made like rope so I pull one end up threw the other with a shuttle and then epoxy it together. This works on the chinese handcuffs theory.I made 4 up in 10 minutes sunday.Bret from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Nov 17 16:17:07 1999 (may be forged)) Wed, 17 Nov 1999 16:16:29 -0600 Subject: Re: bamboo earl, I just went down and measured between the nodes on the culms I havefromMr. Chan. 2 culms min.12" max 19" , 1 culm min.17" max.21", 1 culm min12"max 17", 1 culm 11 3/4" max 16.Give me some feedback on this.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: just received a price list in the post from progress trading and checkedout their web site.Examine the cane gif, the nodes look very close. I should think therewould not be much of a stagger with a couple of those culms.Has anyone ordered any cane that has this problem?Terryhttp://bamboopoles.com/flyrodpage.htm from cmj@post11.tele.dk Wed Nov 17 16:32:56 1999 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF3124.128EDF00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF3124.128EDF00 Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine has had the hare-brained idea that he wants =to catchsalmon with a Lee Wulf salmon rod, 6=B4#5-6. I seem to remember having= it is an Orvis Rod. Assuming this is not a joke, does anyone know of this rod? Info and =taper wanted.My friend is a rodmaker, cane, and I do think he he serious about =making this rod.Can You imagine a 30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod? Should be =ratherlively, I=B4d say. regards, Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF3124.128EDF00 Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine hashad = hare-brained idea that he wants to catchsalmon with a Lee Wulf salmonrod, = I seem to remember having read that it is an Orvis Rod. Assuming this is not a joke, does= this rod? Info and taper wanted. cane, = think he he serious about making this rod.Can You imagine a 30 lb salmon ina = on such a rod? Should be ratherlively, I´dsay. regards, Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF3124.128EDF00-- from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Wed Nov 17 16:45:55 1999 (5.5.2448.0) "rod 'akers" Subject: RE: longer wear on plane blades Timothy,please pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is "cryo treating"?I have ready access to liquid nitrogen and would love to stun mycolleagueswith a bamboo rod-related use for the stuff. They are already amazed atthethings we bamboo types find a use for. Best regards Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: longer wear on plane blades greetings! has anyone tried cryo treating theirplane blades yet? i'm checking into it now. timothytroester ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Nov 17 16:46:05 1999 Subject: Rod ID I've been asked to help identify a rod with the following characteristics: About 9' (couldn't measure it)3 pieces, 2 tipsIntermediate wraps about every 2"Has small decal near grip that says "Shapleigh's, Trade Mark Reg, DiamondBrand"Hand written near the grip is "Shoshone Chief"Ferrules appear to be plated brass.Reel seat is downlocking, all metal with single slide band.Stripping guide looks like agatineOne tip has a wire tiptopThe other has an agatine tiptop, but is a bit shorter so the agatineprobably isn't original. The owner paid $40 for it and is trying to decide whether to restore it, aswell as being curious about its origins. It's in fairly rough condition -some wraps unraveling, 1 missing guide, etc. Bamboo looks OK. If you guys can't identify it, I'm willing to believe it doesn't exist!Thanks in advance for your help. Barry Kling from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Nov 17 17:13:04 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 17 Nov 1999 17:05:32 -0600 Subject: Re: Rod ID boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002E_01BF311E.FF799040" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BF311E.FF799040 Sounds like an older Montague, or H-I, but the ferrules should be the =clue. Are they stepped, down, or straight ? GMA Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 4:45 PMSubject: Rod ID I've been asked to help identify a rod with the following =characteristics: About 9' (couldn't measure it)3 pieces, 2 tipsIntermediate wraps about every 2"Has small decal near grip that says "Shapleigh's, Trade Mark Reg, =DiamondBrand"Hand written near the grip is "Shoshone Chief"Ferrules appear to be plated brass.Reel seat is downlocking, all metal with single slide band.Stripping guide looks like agatineOne tip has a wire tiptopThe other has an agatine tiptop, but is a bit shorter so the agatineprobably isn't original. The owner paid $40 for it and is trying to decide whether to restore =it, aswell as being curious about its origins. It's in fairly rough =condition -some wraps unraveling, 1 missing guide, etc. Bamboo looks OK. If you guys can't identify it, I'm willing to believe it doesn't =exist!Thanks in advance for your help. Barry Kling ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BF311E.FF799040 Sounds like an older Montague, or H-I, but = ? GMA ----- Original Message ----- Kling, Barry W. = Sent: Wednesday, November 17, = PMSubject: Rod IDI've been asked to help identify a rod with the = tipsIntermediate wraps about every 2"Has small decal near grip= says "Shapleigh's, Trade Mark Reg, DiamondBrand"Hand written = grip is "Shoshone Chief"Ferrules appear to be plated = is downlocking, all metal with single slide band.Stripping guide = like agatineOne tip has a wire tiptopThe other has an agatine = but is a bit shorter so the agatineprobably isn't = aswell as being curious about its origins. It's in fairly rough = -some wraps unraveling, 1 missing guide, etc. Bamboo looks = you guys can't identify it, I'm willing to believe it doesn't = in advance for your help.Barry =Kling ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BF311E.FF799040-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Nov 17 17:15:32 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 17 Nov 1999 17:07:54 -0600 Subject: Re: bamboo earl, boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF311F.542AC6E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF311F.542AC6E0 Tony, How does this compare to the node spacing on Chinese cane ? I found the =thicker power fibers comment most interesting, and am anxious to hear =about the performance of a rod from this cane ! GMA Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 4:15 PMSubject: Re: bamboo earl, I just went down and measured between the nodes on the culms I have =fromMr. Chan. 2 culms min.12" max 19" , 1 culm min.17" max.21", 1 culm min =12"max 17", 1 culm 11 3/4" max 16.Give me some feedback on this.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: just received a price list in the post from progress trading and =checkedout their web site.Examine the cane gif, the nodes look very close. I should think =therewould not be much of a stagger with a couple of those culms.Has anyone ordered any cane that has this problem?Terryhttp://bamboopoles.com/flyrodpage.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF311F.542AC6E0 Tony, How does this compare to the node spacing on Chinese cane? = the thicker power fibers comment most interesting, and am anxious to = the performance of a rod from this cane ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Spezio Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Wednesday, November 17, = PMSubject: Re: bamboo earl,I just went down and measured between the nodes on the= have fromMr. Chan. 2 culms min.12" max 19" , 1 culm min.17" = some = rodpage.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF311F.542AC6E0-- from bob@downandacross.com Wed Nov 17 17:55:42 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: glues Hi, I had two splices (same strip) give on me when planing yesterday. Iwas roughing out the strip and felt it give under only the slightest pressure. I am using Titebond II. I had previously tested all the strips and they were very resilient. Any one know why this glue would fail. Moisture? It was clamped for over 20 hours. The splice looked great until it popped.Any help would be great.Also, anyone used Titebond polyurethane? Is it better than TB II?Best regards,Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from bob@downandacross.com Wed Nov 17 18:04:47 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: bamboo earl, boundary="=====================_2670946==_.ALT" --=====================_2670946==_.ALT I ordered some to try so I will also report back. I can say that Mr Chan is a very nice man. The bamboo...sounds good.Bob Maulucci At 05:15 PM 11/17/99 -0600, you wrote:Tony, How does this compare to the node spacing on Chinese cane ? I found the thicker power fibers comment most interesting, and am anxious to hear about the performance of a rod from this cane ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: Tony Spezio Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 4:15 PMSubject: Re: bamboo earl, I just went down and measured between the nodes on the culms I havefromMr. Chan. 2 culms min.12" max 19" , 1 culm min.17" max.21", 1 culm min12"max 17", 1 culm 11 3/4" max 16.Give me some feedback on this.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: just received a price list in the post from progress trading andcheckedout their web site.Examine the cane gif, the nodes look very close. I should think therewould not be much of a stagger with a couple of those culms.Has anyone ordered any cane that has this problem?Terry http://bamboopoles.com/flyrodpage.htm --=====================_2670946==_.ALT I ordered some to try so I will also report back. I can say that Mr Chanis a very nice man. The bamboo...sounds good.Bob Maulucci At 05:15 PM 11/17/99 -0600, you wrote:Tony, How does this compare to the node spacing on Chinese cane ? I foundthe thicker power fibers comment most interesting, and am anxious tohearabout the performance of a rod from this cane ! GMA----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Spezio Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 4:15 PMSubject: Re: bamboo earl, I just went down and measured between the nodes on the culms I havefromMr. Chan. 2 culms min.12" max 19" , 1 culm min.17"max.21", 1 culmmin 12" Give me some feedback on this. TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: checked there http://bamboopoles.com/flyrodpage.htm --=====================_2670946==_.ALT-- from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Nov 17 18:08:14 1999 Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01BF3115.EC7925E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BF3115.EC7925E0 Hi Carsten,There are a couple of "Lee Wulff" rods that were made by Farlow, one was=a 6ft x 2pc x 2tip midge rod and the other was an impregnated rod of 8ft =length. Orvis made a number of "salmon rods" including the Shooting Star =model but I'm not aware of an 6ft model.Ray Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 8:49 AMSubject: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine has had the hare-brained idea that he wants =to catchsalmon with a Lee Wulf salmon rod, 6=B4#5-6. I seem to rememberhaving = it is an Orvis Rod. Assuming this is not a joke, does anyone know of this rod? Info and =taper wanted.My friend is a rodmaker, cane, and I do think he he serious about =making this rod.Can You imagine a 30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod? Should =be ratherlively, I=B4d say. regards, Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BF3115.EC7925E0 Hi Carsten,There are a couple of "Lee Wulff" rods= made by Farlow, one was a 6ft x 2pc x 2tip midge rod and the other was = impregnated rod of 8ft length. Orvis made a number of "salmon rods" = the Shooting Star model but I'm not aware of an 6ft model.Ray ----- Original Message ----- J=F8rgensen Makers List Serve Sent: Wednesday, November 17, = AMSubject: Lee Wulf/Orvis =taper Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine hashad = hare-brained idea that he wants to catchsalmon with a Lee Wulf salmonrod, = seem to remember having read that it is an Orvis Rod. Assuming this is not a joke,does = of this rod? Info and taper wanted. think he he serious about making this rod.Can You imagine a 30 lb salmonin = on such a rod? Should be ratherlively, I=B4d say. regards, Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BF3115.EC7925E0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Nov 17 18:28:53 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 17 Nov 1999 18:28:56 -0600 Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00AA_01BF3129.954F8520" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01BF3129.954F8520 I recall a 6' Orvis impregnated rod, and there also was a one piece =version, at one time, as I remember. I don't remember them being touted =as being used for salmon though. GMA Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 10:49 AMSubject: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine has had the hare-brained idea that he wants =to catchsalmon with a Lee Wulf salmon rod, 6=B4#5-6. I seem to rememberhaving = it is an Orvis Rod. Assuming this is not a joke, does anyone know of this rod? Info and =taper wanted.My friend is a rodmaker, cane, and I do think he he serious about =making this rod.Can You imagine a 30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod? Should =be ratherlively, I=B4d say. regards, Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01BF3129.954F8520 I recall a 6' Orvis impregnated rod, and = being touted as being used for salmon though. GMA ----- Original Message ----- J=F8rgensen Makers List Serve Sent: Wednesday, November 17, = AMSubject: Lee Wulf/Orvis =taper Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine hashad = hare-brained idea that he wants to catchsalmon with a Lee Wulf salmonrod, = seem to remember having read that it is an Orvis Rod. Assuming this is not a joke,does = of this rod? Info and taper wanted. think he he serious about making this rod.Can You imagine a 30 lb salmonin = on such a rod? Should be ratherlively, I=B4d say. regards, Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01BF3129.954F8520-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Nov 17 18:32:34 1999 Subject: Re: bamboo earl, OK panic over, the earl just emailed me explaining that the image usedwas adifferent species, not what we are after. The person who made his siteusedthe wrong image.It did not look right to me but being the diplomat that I am I did not wanttoI point the finger.TerryTony Spezio wrote: I just went down and measured between the nodes on the culms I havefromMr. Chan. 2 culms min.12" max 19" , 1 culm min.17" max.21", 1 culm min12"max 17", 1 culm 11 3/4" max 16.Give me some feedback on this.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: just received a price list in the post from progress trading and checkedout their web site.Examine the cane gif, the nodes look very close. I should think therewould not be much of a stagger with a couple of those culms.Has anyone ordered any cane that has this problem?Terryhttp://bamboopoles.com/flyrodpage.htm from jourdoktorn@starport.se Wed Nov 17 18:39:37 1999 dmz.pilot.stjarntv.se(Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAAA52;Thu, 18 Nov 1999 01:39:02 +0100 Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper boundary="------------E94AFF11FA5F052C358FB699" --------------E94AFF11FA5F052C358FB699 Fellow Listers and Carsten, yes Orvis made several lengths of this so called Lee Wulf model Length 6ft 1 5/8 oz 2 tips line WF76ft 1 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF76.5ft 2 1/4 oz 2 tips line WF77ft 2 3/4 oz 2 tips line WF77.5ft 3 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF78ft 4 oz 2 tips line WF78.5ft 4 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF8 The 6ft rods were called Midge Armour Cane rods, the others justLee Wulf Armour Cane. There are several pictures of mr Lee Wulfand others catching big salmons with this and Orvis Deluxe Midgerods. As long as the shore allows free movement without rocks andtrees there are no problems catching and trailing big salmons witha very small rod. The angel of attack rod - line is determiningthe impact on the rod, not the length or diameter of the rod. Itwill be quite a bit tougher on your arm though. regards,Jan Nystrom Carsten J=F8rgensen wrote: Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine has had thehare-brained idea that he wants to catchsalmon with a Lee Wulfsalmon rod, 6=B4#5-6. I seem to remember having read thatit is anOrvis Rod. Assuming this is not a joke, does anyone know of thisrod? Info and taper wanted. My friend is a rodmaker, cane, and Ido think he he serious about making this rod.Can You imagine a30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod? Should beratherlively, I=B4d say. regards, Carsten --------------E94AFF11FA5F052C358FB699 Fellow Listers and Carsten, line WF7 line WF7 line WF7 line WF7 line WF8The 6ft rods were called Midge Armour Cane rods, the others just LeeWulf Armour Cane. There are several pictures of mr Lee Wulf and otherscatching big salmons with this and Orvis Deluxe Midge rods. As long asthe shore allows free movement without rocks and trees there are noproblemscatching and trailing big salmons with a very small rod. The angel ofattackrod - line is determining the impact on the rod, not the length or diameterof the rod. It will be quite a bit tougher on your arm though.regards,Jan Nystrom Carsten Jørgensen wrote: Norwegianfriend of mine has had the hare-brained idea that he wants tocatchsalmonwith a Lee Wulf salmon rod, 6´#5-6. I seem to remember havingreadthatit is an Orvis this is not a joke, does anyone know of this rod? Info and taper friend is a rodmaker, cane, and I do think he he serious about making thisrod.Can You imagine a30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod? Should beratherlively, --------------E94AFF11FA5F052C358FB699-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Nov 17 18:43:27 1999 Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper 8D12338820BBC396D4CFEDDB" --------------8D12338820BBC396D4CFEDDB Wulf and some friends got there kicks out of trying see who could landthe largest Salmon on the lightest tackle. This was before the days ofcatch and release.I cannot imagine a large Salmon landed on a 6ft midge being able tocontinue upstream! Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine has had the hare-brained I seem to remember having read thatit is an Orvis Rod. Assuming thisis not a joke, does anyone know of this rod? Info and taper wanted. Myfriend is a rodmaker, cane, and I do think he he serious about makingthis rod.Can You imagine a 30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod?Should be ratherlively, I'd say. regards, Carsten --------------8D12338820BBC396D4CFEDDB could land the largest Salmon on the lightest tackle. This was before thedays of catch and release.I cannot imagine a large Salmon landed on a 6ft midge being able tocontinue upstream! Carsten Jørgensen wrote: Norwegianfriend of mine has had the hare-brained idea that he wants tocatchsalmonwith a Lee Wulf salmon rod, 6´#5-6. I seem to remember havingreadthatit is an Orvis this is not a joke, does anyone know of this rod? Info and taper friend is a rodmaker, cane, and I do think he he serious about making thisrod.Can Youimagine a30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod? Should beratherlively, --------------8D12338820BBC396D4CFEDDB-- from chris@artistree.com Wed Nov 17 18:52:13 1999 Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper I have to say that I'll feel a little sorry for Salmon hooked on such a rod.-- Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine has had the hare-brained idea that he wantsto catchsalmon with a Lee Wulf salmon rod, 6'#5-6. I seem to remember havingread thatit is an Orvis Rod. Assuming this is not a joke, does anyone know of this rod? Info andtaper wanted.My friend is a rodmaker, cane, and I do think he he serious aboutmaking this rod.Can You imagine a 30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod? Shouldbe ratherlively, I'd say. regards, Carsten from jourdoktorn@starport.se Wed Nov 17 19:03:16 1999 dmz.pilot.stjarntv.se(Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAAF7B;Thu, 18 Nov 1999 02:02:42 +0100 Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper boundary="------------02CC41BDD6E172D02EB3C20B" --------------02CC41BDD6E172D02EB3C20B Sorry Fellow Listers, I made a little mistake in my recent listings of Lee Wulf rods.The line of rods were made by "The House of Farlow" in England andnot by Orvis, sorry! Orvis made some rods also by help from mr LeeWulff though, the Superfine one-piece 6ft, the Deluxe 2-piece 6=BD,7 and 7=BDft rods. Here the message is again, corrected: The House of Farlow made several lengths of this so called "LeeWulff" model Length 6ft 1 5/8 oz 2 tips line WF76ft 1 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF76.5ft 2 1/4 oz 2 tips line WF77ft 2 3/4 oz 2 tips line WF77.5ft 3 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF78ft 4 oz 2 tips line WF78.5ft 4 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF8 The 6ft rods were called Midge Armour Cane rods, the others justLee Wulf Armour Cane. Thereare several pictures of mr Lee Wulf and others catching bigsalmons with this and Orvis Deluxe6=BDft Midge rods. As long as the shore allows free movement withoutrocks and trees there are noproblems catching and trailing big salmons with a very small rod.The angel of attack rod - line isdetermining the impact on the rod, not the length or diameter ofthe rod. It will be quite a bittougher on your arm though. regards,Jan Nystrom Carsten J=F8rgensen wrote: Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine has had thehare-brained idea that he wants to catchsalmon with a Lee Wulfsalmon rod, 6=B4#5-6. I seem to remember having read thatit is anOrvis Rod. Assuming this is not a joke, does anyone know of thisrod? Info and taper wanted. My friend is a rodmaker, cane, and Ido think he he serious about making this rod.Can You imagine a30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod? Should beratherlively, I=B4d say. regards, Carsten --------------02CC41BDD6E172D02EB3C20B Sorry Fellow Listers, The line of rods were made by "The House of Farlow" inEnglandand not by Orvis, sorry! Orvis made some rods also by help from mr Lee Wulff though, the Superfine one-piece 6ft, the Deluxe 2- piece6½, 7 and 7½ft rods.Here the message is again, corrected: Wulff" model line WF7 line WF7 line WF7 line WF7 line WF8The 6ft rods were called Midge Armour Cane rods, the others just LeeWulf Armour Cane. Thereare several pictures of mr Lee Wulf and others catching big salmonswith this and Orvis Deluxe6½ft Midge rods. As long as the shore allows free movementwithoutrocks and trees there are noproblems catching and trailing big salmons with a very small rod. Theangel of attack rod - line isdetermining the impact on the rod, not the length or diameter of therod. It will be quite a bittougher on your arm though.regards,Jan NystromCarsten Jørgensen wrote: Norwegianfriend of mine has had the hare-brained idea that he wants tocatchsalmonwith a Lee Wulf salmon rod, 6´#5-6. I seem to remember havingreadthatit is an Orvis this is not a joke, does anyone know of this rod? Info and taper friend is a rodmaker, cane, and I do think he he serious about making thisrod.Can You imagine a30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod? Should beratherlively, --------------02CC41BDD6E172D02EB3C20B-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Nov 17 19:44:43 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AB268BB000B0; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:49:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Chris,You needn't worry, I'm sure it will taste fine.You are right about the short rod, Chris, the salmon doesn't have as goodachance to wear down the angler. A 6' rod provides more leverage against afishthan a longer rod. Conversely, the longer rod gives the fish more of a leveragainst the fisherman. [Boat rods for large fish used to be 5'-6' long.]I get more fun from the long rods, they magnify the power of the fish,(andthese tiddlers need all the help they can get) but I can't land a fish as fastwith a 10' 6wt, as with an 8' 6wt.Best regards,Reed Chris Wohlford wrote: I have to say that I'll feel a little sorry for Salmon hooked on such a rod.-- Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine has had the hare-brained idea that hewantsto catchsalmon with a Lee Wulf salmon rod, 6'#5-6. I seem to remember havingread thatit is an Orvis Rod. Assuming this is not a joke, does anyone know of this rod? Info andtaper wanted.My friend is a rodmaker, cane, and I do think he he serious aboutmaking this rod.Can You imagine a 30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod? Shouldbe ratherlively, I'd say. regards, Carsten from Mlee5107@aol.com Wed Nov 17 20:06:46 1999 Subject: Re: bamboo dust Hello,Although some people clearly can have an allergy mediated reaction tobamboo dust, the cough reaction that you're experiencing is likely a normal physiologic broncho-pulmonary response to particulate insult on arelatively 'clean' environment. Whether the dust was from bamboo sanding, beatingrugs, or cleaning the layer off of your graphite rods, the coughing response is normal. As far as 'bamboo lung', I'm not aware of any reported cases of interstitial pneumonitis associated with our dust. However, there are (just for interest), other documented xxxx-lung diseases: Farmer's Lung - hypersensitivity pneumonitis from spores ofactinomycetesMalt-worker's Lung - Allergic alveolitis associated with aspergillussporesWelder's lung - benign form of pneumoconiosisMason's lung - silicosis occurring in stone masonsbird- fancier's lung - extrinsic allergic alveolitis by particulate avian emanationsCoal miner's lung - pneumoconiosis secondary to carbon particles in thelungcollier's lung - anthracosisCheese worker's lung - Penicillium casei sporesair-conditioner lung - allergic alveolitis by forced contaminated air with thermophilic actinomycetes. The list goes on, and you probably get the picture. I just thought that I should share some of my experience, as I don't have much bambooexperience. . . . yet. If anyone needs some disposable masks, I have some that I could give toyou. Email me off list (I'll tell you if I ran out). Otherwise, you could make an appointment for a consultation for cough :.p! Best regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Mayo ClinicRochester, MN from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Wed Nov 17 21:34:47 1999 mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP Thu, 18 Nov 1999 03:28:53 +0000 Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper believe "Armor Cane" was the Farlow Label. The old NormThompson/Farlow/Lee Wulf connection of the 1960s did indeed tout Wulfsuseof a 6 footer for Atlantic Salmon. In 1962 on the river Dee inAperdeenshire Wulff and Jock Scott had a fairly well publicised match inwhich Wulff landed several Salmon on a 6ft. 2oz rod(source, The Joys ofTrout, Arnold Gingrich) and my own somewhat hazy memory of why myfirstcane rod was a 6ft. Farlow midge ("Midge" was certainly a misnomer, thelittle sucker took a wf7 or 6 to load well and throw line). At 01:43 AM 11/18/99 +0100, you wrote:Fellow Listers and Carsten, yes Orvis made several lengths of this so called Lee Wulf model Length 6ft 1 5/8 oz 2 tips line WF76ft 1 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF76.5ft 2 1/4 oz 2 tips line WF77ft 2 3/4 oz 2 tips line WF77.5ft 3 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF78ft 4 oz 2 tips line WF78.5ft 4 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF8 The 6ft rods were called Midge Armour Cane rods, the others justLee Wulf Armour Cane. There are several pictures of mr Lee Wulfand others catching big salmons with this and Orvis Deluxe Midgerods. As long as the shore allows free movement without rocks andtrees there are no problems catching and trailing big salmons witha very small rod. The angel of attack rod - line is determiningthe impact on the rod, not the length or diameter of the rod. Itwill be quite a bit tougher on your arm though. regards,Jan Nystrom Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine has had thehare-brained idea that he wants to catchsalmon with a Lee Wulfsalmon rod, 6'#5-6. I seem to remember having read thatit is anOrvis Rod. Assuming this is not a joke, does anyone know of thisrod? Info and taper wanted. My friend is a rodmaker, cane, and Ido think he he serious about making this rod.Can You imagine a30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod? Should beratherlively, I'd say. regards, Carsten Attachment Converted: "C:\TEMP\ReLeeWu1" Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from tragich23@juno.com Wed Nov 17 23:09:02 1999 00:08:36 EST Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper I would like to build a 6' 7wt salmon rod. I mostly fish and build shortrods. If someone out there has a taper I can try I would appreciate itand post how it fishes when the rod is finished. As for hair brained,maybe I am too.thank youAI On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 02:07:17 +0100 jan =?iso-8859- 1?Q?nystr=F6m?=writes:Sorry Fellow Listers, I made a little mistake in my recent listings of Lee Wulf rods.The line of rods were made by "The House of Farlow" in England andnot by Orvis, sorry! Orvis made some rods also by help from mr LeeWulff though, the Superfine one-piece 6ft, the Deluxe 2-piece 6*,7 and 7*ft rods. Here the message is again, corrected: The House of Farlow made several lengths of this so called "LeeWulff" model Length 6ft 1 5/8 oz 2 tips line WF76ft 1 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF76.5ft 2 1/4 oz 2 tips line WF77ft 2 3/4 oz 2 tips line WF77.5ft 3 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF78ft 4 oz 2 tips line WF78.5ft 4 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF8 The 6ft rods were called Midge Armour Cane rods, the others justLee Wulf Armour Cane. Thereare several pictures of mr Lee Wulf and others catching bigsalmons with this and Orvis Deluxe6*ft Midge rods. As long as the shore allows free movement withoutrocks and trees there are noproblems catching and trailing big salmons with a very small rod.The angel of attack rod - line isdetermining the impact on the rod, not the length or diameter ofthe rod. It will be quite a bittougher on your arm though. regards,Jan Nystrom Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine has had thehare-brained idea that he wants to catchsalmon with a Lee Wulfsalmon rod, 6'#5-6. I seem to remember having read thatit is anOrvis Rod. Assuming this is not a joke, does anyone know of thisrod? Info and taper wanted. My friend is a rodmaker, cane, and Ido think he he serious about making this rod.Can You imagine a30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod? Should beratherlively, I'd say. regards, Carsten from tragich23@juno.com Wed Nov 17 23:09:41 1999 00:08:36 EST Subject: Re: bamboo dust gee, thank you- I think On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 21:05:51 EST Mlee5107@aol.com writes:Hello,Although some people clearly can have an allergy mediated reaction to bamboo dust, the cough reaction that you're experiencing is likely a normal physiologic broncho-pulmonary response to particulate insult on a relatively 'clean' environment. Whether the dust was from bamboo sanding, beating rugs, or cleaning the layer off of your graphite rods, the coughing response is normal. As far as 'bamboo lung', I'm not aware of any reported cases of interstitial pneumonitis associated with our dust. However, there are (just for interest), other documented xxxx-lung diseases: Farmer's Lung - hypersensitivity pneumonitis from spores of actinomycetesMalt-worker's Lung - Allergic alveolitis associated with aspergillus sporesWelder's lung - benign form of pneumoconiosisMason's lung - silicosis occurring in stone masonsbird- fancier's lung - extrinsic allergic alveolitis by particulate avian emanationsCoal miner's lung - pneumoconiosis secondary to carbon particles in the lungcollier's lung - anthracosisCheese worker's lung - Penicillium casei sporesair-conditioner lung - allergic alveolitis by forced contaminated air with thermophilic actinomycetes. The list goes on, and you probably get the picture. I just thought that I should share some of my experience, as I don't have much bamboo experience. . . . yet. If anyone needs some disposable masks, I have some that I could give to you. Email me off list (I'll tell you if I ran out). Otherwise, you could make an appointment for a consultation for cough :.p! Best regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Mayo ClinicRochester, MN from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Wed Nov 17 23:46:21 1999 (5.5.2448.0) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: glues Hi Bob,What temperature was it when you glued your splices and have yousubjected them to any form of heat since gluing? Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: glues Hi, I had two splices (same strip) give on me when planing yesterday. Iwas roughing out the strip and felt it give under only the slightest pressure. I am using Titebond II. I had previously tested all the strips and they were very resilient. Any one know why this glue would fail. Moisture? It was clamped for over 20 hours. The splice looked great until it popped.Any help would be great.Also, anyone used Titebond polyurethane? Is it better than TB II?Best regards,Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from chris@artistree.com Thu Nov 18 01:45:03 1999 Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Reed,I understand the leverage argument but there is another variable in themix here. Those boat rods where built like broom sticks with a diameteras thick as my thumb. They were made to fight big fish not cast a flyline. I believe most 6' fly rods, even in 5/6 wts., have a much thinnerdiameter and are nowhere need as stiff. Seems to me that without thisvariable you actually have less leverage. Imagine trying to turn a fishwith just the rod grip. Hmmmm....a 10" fly rod...would that satisfy thechallenge of landing big fish on light tackle? As for the fish....well, I don't wish a slow death on any living thing.-- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Reed Curry wrote: Chris,You needn't worry, I'm sure it will taste fine.You are right about the short rod, Chris, the salmon doesn't have asgood achance to wear down the angler. A 6' rod provides more leverage againsta fishthan a longer rod. Conversely, the longer rod gives the fish more of aleveragainst the fisherman. [Boat rods for large fish used to be 5'-6' long.]I get more fun from the long rods, they magnify the power of the fish,(andthese tiddlers need all the help they can get) but I can't land a fish asfastwith a 10' 6wt, as with an 8' 6wt.Best regards,Reed from seanmcs@ar.com.au Thu Nov 18 05:02:47 1999 Thu, 18 Nov 1999 21:56:43 +1100 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Hello: We seem to have an overlap on the question of 6' rods for salmon.The one that comes to mind is the Paul Young 6' Midge. This wassuggested by Arnold Gingrich as a salmon rod, and on Eastern US rivershe caught them. The rod was turned on its axis to relieve strain, Iunderstand, and the arm and reel were the prime instruments for landingthe fish. For flies that are grabbed, that might be a successfulcatching technique (but appreciate the remarks on the fish's chancesafter a long struggle). For dry fly fishing for trout on wide and quietwater, the hooking ability of such short rods is very poor. Sean ANDREW J INGRAM wrote: I would like to build a 6' 7wt salmon rod. I mostly fish and build shortrods. If someone out there has a taper I can try I would appreciate itand post how it fishes when the rod is finished. As for hair brained,maybe I am too.thank youAI On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 02:07:17 +0100 jan =?iso-8859- 1?Q?nystr=F6m?=writes:Sorry Fellow Listers, I made a little mistake in my recent listings of Lee Wulf rods.The line of rods were made by "The House of Farlow" in England andnot by Orvis, sorry! Orvis made some rods also by help from mr LeeWulff though, the Superfine one-piece 6ft, the Deluxe 2-piece 6*,7 and 7*ft rods. Here the message is again, corrected: The House of Farlow made several lengths of this so called "LeeWulff" model Length 6ft 1 5/8 oz 2 tips line WF76ft 1 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF76.5ft 2 1/4 oz 2 tips line WF77ft 2 3/4 oz 2 tips line WF77.5ft 3 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF78ft 4 oz 2 tips line WF78.5ft 4 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF8 The 6ft rods were called Midge Armour Cane rods, the others justLee Wulf Armour Cane. Thereare several pictures of mr Lee Wulf and others catching bigsalmons with this and Orvis Deluxe6*ft Midge rods. As long as the shore allows free movement withoutrocks and trees there are noproblems catching and trailing big salmons with a very small rod.The angel of attack rod - line isdetermining the impact on the rod, not the length or diameter ofthe rod. It will be quite a bittougher on your arm though. regards,Jan Nystrom Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine has had thehare-brained idea that he wants to catchsalmon with a Lee Wulfsalmon rod, 6'#5-6. I seem to remember having read thatit is anOrvis Rod. Assuming this is not a joke, does anyone know of thisrod? Info and taper wanted. My friend is a rodmaker, cane, and Ido think he he serious about making this rod.Can You imagine a30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod? Should beratherlively, I'd say. regards, Carsten from caneman@clnk.com Thu Nov 18 06:57:58 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Thu, 18 Nov 1999 06:56:18 -0600 Subject: Gone fishing! type="multipart/alternative";boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_0171_01BF3191.D5380320" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0171_01BF3191.D5380320 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0172_01BF3191.D5380320" ------=_NextPart_001_0172_01BF3191.D5380320 Well, time for a break. I'm leaving here in a couple of hours for a =quick trip to Colorado. I have a customer there that has bought one of =my rods before that wants to try out a little rod I just finished (yeah, =Harry, it's the one I built for the spillway run, but NO he won't get =this one!), so I am driving out to Canon City and we are gonna wet a =line all day tomorrow and Saturday Morning. And it's a tax deductable = See you all when I get back! Bob R.L. "Bob" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ------=_NextPart_001_0172_01BF3191.D5380320 rods before that wants to try out a little rod I just finished (yeah, = it's the one I built for the spillway run, but NO he won't get this = am driving out to Canon City and we are gonna wet a line all day = See you all when I get back! Bob Rodsht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ------=_NextPart_001_0172_01BF3191.D5380320-- ------=_NextPart_000_0171_01BF3191.D5380320 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------=_NextPart_000_0171_01BF3191.D5380320-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Nov 18 07:15:53 1999 1999 05:15:47 PST Subject: RE: longer wear on plane blades "rod 'akers" michael, a material is heated then dropped to below minus 310f for 24 hours then returned to room tempover a 24hr period. it increases the durability of anitem from 100% to 1000% depending on the material. itis used on knives and tools, anything with a cuttingedge. as i recall it effects carbon steel between 100%to 200%. there are some cottage industries startingup all over the country where you can have thingscryogenically treated for around $3.00 a lb, more forsmall items. race car drivers cryo treat their engineblocks and it's used on valves and breaks. it doesn'tchange the structure of the material it alignes thefree electrons. it would not ,as i understand it,make the plane blades harder but keep their edgelonger. we've been using cryo treated drill bits andthey are virtually indestructable. look at cryogenictreatment of tools on the web. i'm trying to contacta fellow in des moines that does this. timothy --- "Roberts, Michael"wrote:Timothy,please pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is"cryo treating"?I have ready access to liquid nitrogen and wouldlove to stun my colleagueswith a bamboo rod-related use for the stuff. Theyare already amazed at thethings we bamboo types find a use for. Best regards Mike -----Original Message-----From: timothy troester Sent: Thursday, 18 November 1999 2:15 Subject: longer wear on plane blades greetings! has anyone tried cryo treating theirplane blades yet? i'm checking into it now. timothytroester ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from caneman@clnk.com Thu Nov 18 07:31:12 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Thu, 18 Nov 1999 07:29:41 -0600 Subject: Gone fishing! boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0193_01BF3196.7F1C9BE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0193_01BF3196.7F1C9BE0 Well, time for a break. I'm leaving here in a couple of hours for a =quick trip to Colorado. I have a customer there that has bought one of =my rods before that wants to try out a little rod I just finished (yeah, =Harry, it's the one I built for the spillway run, but NO he won't get =this one!), so I am driving out to Canon City and we are gonna wet a =line all day tomorrow and Saturday Morning. And it's a tax deductable = See you all when I get back! Bob R.L. "Bob" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0193_01BF3196.7F1C9BE0 rods before that wants to try out a little rod I just finished (yeah, = it's the one I built for the spillway run, but NO he won't get this = am driving out to Canon City and we are gonna wet a line all day = See you all when I get back! Bob Rodsht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0193_01BF3196.7F1C9BE0-- from lars32@gateway.net Thu Nov 18 07:34:01 1999 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Reed you are right! The amounbt of pressure you can put on a fish is basednot on the length or weight of the rod, but rather on the strength of thetippet or terminal tackle (stand up tuna rigs are very short indeed) Morepressure is not put on a fish by rearing back with the rod but by loweringthe tip. Obviously the most pressure you can put on a fish would be topointthe rod right at the fish. A balance however must be sought based on thestrength of the terminal tackle in order to protect the tippet and not breakit.This as we all know is particularly critical with 7X tippet. I'll bet LeeWulf knew this!-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Chris,You needn't worry, I'm sure it will taste fine.You are right about the short rod, Chris, the salmon doesn't have asgood achance to wear down the angler. A 6' rod provides more leverage against afishthan a longer rod. Conversely, the longer rod gives the fish more of aleveragainst the fisherman. [Boat rods for large fish used to be 5'-6' long.]I get more fun from the long rods, they magnify the power of the fish,(andthese tiddlers need all the help they can get) but I can't land a fish asfastwith a 10' 6wt, as with an 8' 6wt.Best regards,Reed Chris Wohlford wrote: I have to say that I'll feel a little sorry for Salmon hooked on such arod.-- Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine has had the hare-brained idea that hewantsto catchsalmon with a Lee Wulf salmon rod, 6'#5-6. I seem to rememberhavingread thatit is an Orvis Rod. Assuming this is not a joke, does anyone know of this rod? Info andtaper wanted.My friend is a rodmaker, cane, and I do think he he serious aboutmaking this rod.Can You imagine a 30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod? Shouldbe ratherlively, I'd say. regards, Carsten from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Nov 18 07:38:01 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 18 Nov 1999 07:30:25 -0600 Subject: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002A_01BF3197.D3B76EE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BF3197.D3B76EE0 Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Paul admonished me for pushing my Midge, by catching a 3 lb. spotted =bass on it ! His comment was that such rods were built for a purpose, =and not to be pushed for a purpose for which they were never intended ! Since the Midge handles a #5 wt. with no strain, at decent distances, =the idea of a #7 wt./6', takes on the feel of a pretty powerful stick I = Certainly a 10' #7 or #8 will have a bigger arc, and power, for setting =the hook, but I have the feeling that Wulf used the reel/drag, with the =tip pointed at the fish, when playing such huge monsters. The photos I =recall, of him fighting such fish, never had the little rod held in a =hard arc against the pull. Reviving a spent fish, requires nothing more than moving it in the flow, =until it can swim away on its own. Heat kills 99% of all caught fish ! =Keep them cold, and they will live ! In view of the water temps. for =such fish as trout and salmon, this should put no extra stress on them, =otherwise don't try to hook them at all ! GMA Cc: jourdoktorn@starport.se ; cmj@post11.tele.dk ; = Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 5:02 AMSubject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Hello: We seem to have an overlap on the question of 6' rods for =salmon.The one that comes to mind is the Paul Young 6' Midge. This wassuggested by Arnold Gingrich as a salmon rod, and on Eastern US rivershe caught them. The rod was turned on its axis to relieve strain, Iunderstand, and the arm and reel were the prime instruments for =landingthe fish. For flies that are grabbed, that might be a successfulcatching technique (but appreciate the remarks on the fish's chancesafter a long struggle). For dry fly fishing for trout on wide and =quiet ANDREW J INGRAM wrote: I would like to build a 6' 7wt salmon rod. I mostly fish and build =shortrods. If someone out there has a taper I can try I would appreciate =itand post how it fishes when the rod is finished. As for hair =brained,maybe I am too.thank youAI On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 02:07:17 +0100 jan ==3D?iso-8859- 1?Q?nystr=3DF6m?=3Dwrites:Sorry Fellow Listers, I made a little mistake in my recent listings of Lee Wulf rods.The line of rods were made by "The House of Farlow" in England andnot by Orvis, sorry! Orvis made some rods also by help from mr LeeWulff though, the Superfine one-piece 6ft, the Deluxe 2-piece 6*,7 and 7*ft rods. Here the message is again, corrected: The House of Farlow made several lengths of this so called "LeeWulff" model Length 6ft 1 5/8 oz 2 tips line WF76ft 1 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF76.5ft 2 1/4 oz 2 tips line WF77ft 2 3/4 oz 2 tips line WF77.5ft 3 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF78ft 4 oz 2 tips line WF78.5ft 4 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF8 The 6ft rods were called Midge Armour Cane rods, the others justLee Wulf Armour Cane. Thereare several pictures of mr Lee Wulf and others catching bigsalmons with this and Orvis Deluxe6*ft Midge rods. As long as the shore allows free movement withoutrocks and trees there are noproblems catching and trailing big salmons with a very small rod.The angel of attack rod - line isdetermining the impact on the rod, not the length or diameter ofthe rod. It will be quite a bittougher on your arm though. regards,Jan NystromCarsten J=F8rgensen wrote: Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine has had thehare-brained idea that he wants to catchsalmon with a Lee Wulfsalmon rod, 6=B4#5-6. I seem to remember having read thatit is =anOrvis Rod. Assuming this is not a joke, does anyone know of thisrod? Info and taper wanted. My friend is a rodmaker, cane, and Ido think he he serious about making this rod.Can You imagine a30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod? Should beratherlively, I=B4d say. regards, Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BF3197.D3B76EE0 From:nobler = Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 7:35 AMSubject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Paul admonished me for pushing my Midge, 3 lb. spotted bass on it ! His comment was that such rods were built for = purpose, and not to be pushed for a purpose for which they were never = ! Since the Midge handles a #5 wt. with no strain, at distances, the idea of a #7 wt./6', takes on the feel of a pretty = I would imagine ! Certainly a 10' #7 or #8 will have a bigger arc, and power,= setting the hook, but I have the feeling that Wulf used the reel/drag, = tip pointed at the fish, when playing such huge monsters. The = recall, of him fighting such fish, never had the little rod held in a = against the pull. Reviving a spent fish, requires nothing more than moving it= flow, until it can swim away on its own. Heat kills 99% of all caught = Keep them cold, and they will live ! In view of the water temps. for = as trout and salmon, this should put no extra stress on them, otherwise = try to hook them at all ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Sean= Cc: jourdoktorn@starport.se ; cmj@post11.tele.dk ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Thursday, November 18, = AMSubject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis =taperHello: We seem to have an overlap on the question of 6' = wassuggested by Arnold Gingrich as a salmon rod, and on Eastern US= rivershe caught them. The rod was turned on its axis to relieve = Iunderstand, and the arm and reel were the prime instruments successfulcatching technique (but appreciate the remarks on the = chancesafter a long struggle). For dry fly fishing for trout on = quietwater, the hooking ability of such short rods is very = = On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 02:07:17 +0100 jan = The House of Farlow made several lengths of this so called = = = = = = = = = Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BF3197.D3B76EE0-- from jon.beckton@asml.nl Thu Nov 18 08:10:00 1999 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper GMA (nobler) wrote: Reviving a spent fish, requires nothing more than moving it in the flow,until it canswim away on its own. Heat kills 99% of all caught fish ! Keep them cold,and they willlive ! In view of the water temps. for such fish as trout and salmon, thisshould put noextrastress on them, otherwise don't try to hook them at all ! According to the books and articles on CAR that I've read, it's thestress of being hooked and played that causes a build-up of lactic acidin the fishes muscles that makes the difference. Play the fish too longand too much lactic acid will build up which can't then be flushed awaynaturally. Result, one dead fish, either now or within a very short timeafter release. Heat will increase the stress levels on the fish, thus increasing lacticacid production, thus putting the fish past the point of no return thatmuch quicker. But I don't believe that cold water guarantees a fishessurvival; play 'em long enough and you'll still kill 'em. Anything that reduces the time between hook-up and release can onlymakethe chance of releasing a healthy fish that'll live to fight another daythat much better. Barbless hooks, knotless mesh landing nets, heavytippets and rods that are man enough for the job all help, as does nottouching the fish with dry hands, not squeezing them too tight, carefulrevival, etc, etc. No doubt there are folk on the list who know a lot more about this thanI do. Any other advice on this? Jon Beckton from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Nov 18 08:15:38 1999 Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sean, I would dearly love to put you on the 150 yd. wide Missouri River inMontana with a 35 year veteran fly fisher of that river. I have seen him(and even had more than my own share of fish while fishing with him) land19"-22" trout time and again with an A. J. Thramer 4'4" taper in a verytimely fashion using dry flies ranging from 18-24's. He rarely looses afish. Indeed, he has landed in a timely fashion fish up to 7 lbs with theshorter rod. Why? Simply because it is what he prefers. I know all of thearguments for 9' rods, however it is also about having fun and thechallenge. As long as the fish are landed in a timely fashion, revived,let us folks with the short rods enjoy our bliss (albeit in completeignorance!) ;>)J. Snider. At 10:02 PM 11/18/99 +1100, Sean McSharry wrote:Hello: We seem to have an overlap on the question of 6' rods for salmon.The one that comes to mind is the Paul Young 6' Midge. This wassuggested by Arnold Gingrich as a salmon rod, and on Eastern US rivershe caught them. The rod was turned on its axis to relieve strain, Iunderstand, and the arm and reel were the prime instruments for landingthe fish. For flies that are grabbed, that might be a successfulcatching technique (but appreciate the remarks on the fish's chancesafter a long struggle). For dry fly fishing for trout on wide and quietwater, the hooking ability of such short rods is very poor. Sean ANDREW J INGRAM wrote: I would like to build a 6' 7wt salmon rod. I mostly fish and build shortrods. If someone out there has a taper I can try I would appreciate itand post how it fishes when the rod is finished. As for hair brained,maybe I am too.thank youAI On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 02:07:17 +0100 jan =?iso-8859- 1?Q?nystr=F6m?=writes:Sorry Fellow Listers, I made a little mistake in my recent listings of Lee Wulf rods.The line of rods were made by "The House of Farlow" in England andnot by Orvis, sorry! Orvis made some rods also by help from mr LeeWulff though, the Superfine one-piece 6ft, the Deluxe 2-piece 6*,7 and 7*ft rods. Here the message is again, corrected: The House of Farlow made several lengths of this so called "LeeWulff" model Length 6ft 1 5/8 oz 2 tips line WF76ft 1 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF76.5ft 2 1/4 oz 2 tips line WF77ft 2 3/4 oz 2 tips line WF77.5ft 3 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF78ft 4 oz 2 tips line WF78.5ft 4 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF8 The 6ft rods were called Midge Armour Cane rods, the others justLee Wulf Armour Cane. Thereare several pictures of mr Lee Wulf and others catching bigsalmons with this and Orvis Deluxe6*ft Midge rods. As long as the shore allows free movement withoutrocks and trees there are noproblems catching and trailing big salmons with a very small rod.The angel of attack rod - line isdetermining the impact on the rod, not the length or diameter ofthe rod. It will be quite a bittougher on your arm though. regards,Jan Nystrom Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine has had thehare-brained idea that he wants to catchsalmon with a Lee Wulfsalmon rod, 6'#5-6. I seem to remember having read thatit is anOrvis Rod. Assuming this is not a joke, does anyone know of thisrod? Info and taper wanted. My friend is a rodmaker, cane, and Ido think he he serious about making this rod.Can You imagine a30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod? Should beratherlively, I'd say. regards, Carsten from caneman@clnk.com Thu Nov 18 08:38:14 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 18 Nov 1999 08:36:42 -0600 Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Sean,Was gonna keep my mouth shut, but now that someone out there agreeswithme, I can at least flutter a little bit on my way out the door.I love the short rods. If you have seen my rods, the longest one I makeis 8 ft. Most of what I make are 6', 6'6" and 7'. I have seen customersbring in some mighty fine fish with the 6 footers.Well, I am going now, on my way to Canon City... By the way, the rod Iam taking with me is a 6 foot rod. Bob -----Original Message----- cmj@post11.tele.dk; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Sean, I would dearly love to put you on the 150 yd. wide Missouri River inMontana with a 35 year veteran fly fisher of that river. I have seen him(and even had more than my own share of fish while fishing with him) land19"-22" trout time and again with an A. J. Thramer 4'4" taper in a verytimely fashion using dry flies ranging from 18-24's. He rarely looses afish. Indeed, he has landed in a timely fashion fish up to 7 lbs with theshorter rod. Why? Simply because it is what he prefers. I know all of thearguments for 9' rods, however it is also about having fun and thechallenge. As long as the fish are landed in a timely fashion, revived,let us folks with the short rods enjoy our bliss (albeit in completeignorance!) ;>)J. Snider. At 10:02 PM 11/18/99 +1100, Sean McSharry wrote:Hello: We seem to have an overlap on the question of 6' rods for salmon.The one that comes to mind is the Paul Young 6' Midge. This wassuggested by Arnold Gingrich as a salmon rod, and on Eastern US rivershe caught them. The rod was turned on its axis to relieve strain, Iunderstand, and the arm and reel were the prime instruments for landingthe fish. For flies that are grabbed, that might be a successfulcatching technique (but appreciate the remarks on the fish's chancesafter a long struggle). For dry fly fishing for trout on wide and quietwater, the hooking ability of such short rods is very poor. Sean ANDREW J INGRAM wrote: I would like to build a 6' 7wt salmon rod. I mostly fish and build shortrods. If someone out there has a taper I can try I would appreciate itand post how it fishes when the rod is finished. As for hair brained,maybe I am too.thank youAI On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 02:07:17 +0100 jan =?iso-8859- 1?Q?nystr=F6m?=writes:Sorry Fellow Listers, I made a little mistake in my recent listings of Lee Wulf rods.The line of rods were made by "The House of Farlow" in England andnot by Orvis, sorry! Orvis made some rods also by help from mr LeeWulff though, the Superfine one-piece 6ft, the Deluxe 2-piece 6*,7 and 7*ft rods. Here the message is again, corrected: The House of Farlow made several lengths of this so called "LeeWulff" model Length 6ft 1 5/8 oz 2 tips line WF76ft 1 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF76.5ft 2 1/4 oz 2 tips line WF77ft 2 3/4 oz 2 tips line WF77.5ft 3 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF78ft 4 oz 2 tips line WF78.5ft 4 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF8 The 6ft rods were called Midge Armour Cane rods, the others justLee Wulf Armour Cane. Thereare several pictures of mr Lee Wulf and others catching bigsalmons with this and Orvis Deluxe6*ft Midge rods. As long as the shore allows free movement withoutrocks and trees there are noproblems catching and trailing big salmons with a very small rod.The angel of attack rod - line isdetermining the impact on the rod, not the length or diameter ofthe rod. It will be quite a bittougher on your arm though. regards,Jan Nystrom Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine has had thehare-brained idea that he wants to catchsalmon with a Lee Wulfsalmon rod, 6'#5-6. I seem to remember having read thatit is anOrvis Rod. Assuming this is not a joke, does anyone know of thisrod? Info and taper wanted. My friend is a rodmaker, cane, and Ido think he he serious about making this rod.Can You imagine a30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod? Should beratherlively, I'd say. regards, Carsten from RMargiotta@aol.com Thu Nov 18 08:45:24 1999 Subject: Orvis/Lee Wulff This may be off the subject, but in Orvis' "Treasury of Fishing Secrets", a paper catalog-like thing published ca. 1970, there is an article by Wulff on light tackle fishing. It has photos of him landing a 17 lb. salmon on the tip section of a 3 piece Orvis salmon rod "as a stunt". He says in the article that he uses a 6 foot 1 piece rod for salmon fishing, although he doesn't give any more details. It possibly could be the Orvis Superfine, rated for a 5/6 line. --Rich from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Nov 18 08:46:22 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 18 Nov 1999 08:46:28 -0600 Subject: Fw: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0088_01BF31A1.61532D80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01BF31A1.61532D80 Subject: Re: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper I once caught a really nice stringer of bass. I was late getting in, so =left them laying in my trailered boat, for the 90 mile trip home. At =home, I got a photo of the fish, and dumped them in the sink, to clean =them. Within 5 - min's., they were swimming in the sink, knocking water =all over ! The air temp's outside, were close to 30 deg's. F ! Regardless of the acid build ups, cold retards a fishes functions. I =couldn't agree more about nets, etc., and how you don't handle a fish =any longer than needed to release it. Still, a #7 - 6' rod, can apply an =awful lot of pressure, and bring a fish to release pretty fast ! What we =do as sportsmen, on a fly, is negligible compared to the trout we find =stream side, dying from a gut full of canned corn ! Stupid is, as stupid does ! GMA Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 8:09 AMSubject: Re: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper GMA (nobler) wrote: Reviving a spent fish, requires nothing more than moving it in the =flow, until it can swim away on its own. Heat kills 99% of all caught =fish ! Keep them cold, and they will live ! In view of the water temps. = stress on them, otherwise don't try to hook them at all ! According to the books and articles on CAR that I've read, it's thestress of being hooked and played that causes a build-up of lactic =acidin the fishes muscles that makes the difference. Play the fish too =longand too much lactic acid will build up which can't then be flushed =awaynaturally. Result, one dead fish, either now or within a very short =timeafter release. Heat will increase the stress levels on the fish, thus increasing =lacticacid production, thus putting the fish past the point of no return =thatmuch quicker. But I don't believe that cold water guarantees a fishessurvival; play 'em long enough and you'll still kill 'em. Anything that reduces the time between hook-up and release can only =makethe chance of releasing a healthy fish that'll live to fight another =daythat much better. Barbless hooks, knotless mesh landing nets, heavytippets and rods that are man enough for the job all help, as does nottouching the fish with dry hands, not squeezing them too tight, =carefulrevival, etc, etc. No doubt there are folk on the list who know a lot more about this =thanI do. Any other advice on this? Jon Beckton ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01BF31A1.61532D80 From:nobler = Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 8:45 AMSubject: Re: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper I once caught a really nice stringer of = late getting in, so left them laying in my trailered boat, for the 90 = home. At home, I got a photo of the fish, and dumped them in the sink, = them. Within 5 - min's., they were swimming in the sink, knocking water = ! The air temp's outside, were close to 30 deg's. F =! Regardless of the acid build ups, cold retards a fishes = I couldn't agree more about nets, etc., and how you don't handle a fish = longer than needed to release it. Still, a #7 - 6' rod, can apply an = of pressure, and bring a fish to release pretty fast ! What we do as = on a fly, is negligible compared to the trout we find stream side, dying = gut full of canned corn ! Stupid is, as stupid does ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- jon= Sent: Thursday, November 18, = AMSubject: Re: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis = taper nothing more than moving it in the flow, until it can swim away on its = Heat kills 99% of all caught fish ! Keep them cold, and they will live = view of the water temps. for such fish as trout and salmon, this = thestress of being hooked and played that causes a build-up of = acidin the fishes muscles that makes the difference. Play the fish = longand too much lactic acid will build up which can't then be = awaynaturally. Result, one dead fish, either now or within a very = timeafter release.Heat will increase the stress levels on = fish, thus increasing lacticacid production, thus putting the fish = the point of no return thatmuch quicker. But I don't believe that = water guarantees a fishessurvival; play 'em long enough and you'll = kill 'em.Anything that reduces the time between hook-up and = can only makethe chance of releasing a healthy fish that'll live = another daythat much better. Barbless hooks, knotless mesh landing= heavytippets and rods that are man enough for the job all help, as = nottouching the fish with dry hands, not squeezing them too tight, = carefulrevival, etc, etc.No doubt there are folk on the = know a lot more about this thanI do. Any other advice on = Beckton ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01BF31A1.61532D80-- from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Thu Nov 18 09:25:41 1999 1999 10:25:20 -0500 Subject: Re: glues I did some testing of Titebond II splicing last year and here is what Idiscovered. Itis best to let the glue joint set for about a week to get full strength. Although thejoint looks good the next day, you can break the bond. The glue joint is notas strongas the bamboo. However, glue joints I let set for a week did not fail. Ibroke severaltest strips to see where the failure was and for those that had been glued the joints were as strong as the bamboo. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com bob@downandacross.com wrote:Hi, I had two splices (same strip) give on me when planing yesterday. Iwas roughingout the strip and felt it give under only the slightest pressure. I am using Titebond II. I had previously tested all the strips and they were very resilient. Any one know why this glue would fail. Moisture? It was clamped for over 20 hours. The splice looked great until it popped.Any help would be great.Also, anyone used Titebond polyurethane? Is it better than TB II?Best regards,Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from GROMBACHERA@phibred.com Thu Nov 18 11:08:47 1999 0600 smap (V4.2) Subject: RE: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Jerry and folks, I have an old movie of Lee Wulf catching salmon with his small rods. Hefought the fish with the butt of the rod. Wulf might of fought the fish onsmall rods, but he did put the wood to them. He also fought the fish withhis reel. I think if Wulf had high sticked the salmon, his two piece rod might ofended up as a three piece rod. I've caught atlantic's in Chile andsteelhead in B.C. and the Great Lakes, and all those fish would of added afew more pieces to his rod if he had high sticked them. I don't know about him fighting the salmon to death, the only fishermanthatI have seen fight a salmon or steelhead to death were the clunkers in theGreat Lakes and on the Kitimat. Wulf's movie doesn't give an indication orhow long he fought the salmon. If you live near Chicago, my brother got a copy of the movie from TroutandGrouse in Northfield Ill. Alberta Al from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Nov 18 11:29:43 1999 1999 09:29:37 PST Subject: Re: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper they''ll swim under a rock and turn belly-up for sure,if you don't revive them. timothy --- jon beckton wrote:GMA (nobler) wrote: Reviving a spent fish, requires nothing more thanmoving it in the flow, until it can swim away on itsown. Heat kills 99% of all caught fish ! Keep themcold, and they will live ! In view of the watertemps. for such fish as trout and salmon, thisshould put no extrastress on them, otherwise don't try to hook them atall ! According to the books and articles on CAR that I'veread, it's thestress of being hooked and played that causes abuild-up of lactic acidin the fishes muscles that makes the difference.Play the fish too longand too much lactic acid will build up which can'tthen be flushed awaynaturally. Result, one dead fish, either now orwithin a very short timeafter release. Heat will increase the stress levels on the fish,thus increasing lacticacid production, thus putting the fish past thepoint of no return thatmuch quicker. But I don't believe that cold waterguarantees a fishessurvival; play 'em long enough and you'll still kill'em. Anything that reduces the time between hook-up andrelease can only makethe chance of releasing a healthy fish that'll liveto fight another daythat much better. Barbless hooks, knotless meshlanding nets, heavytippets and rods that are man enough for the job allhelp, as does nottouching the fish with dry hands, not squeezing themtoo tight, carefulrevival, etc, etc. No doubt there are folk on the list who know a lotmore about this thanI do. Any other advice on this? Jon Beckton ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from chris@artistree.com Thu Nov 18 13:33:43 1999 Subject: Re: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Nothing like starting the day with a lesson in physics A fellow listmember had this to say: The above seems to make sense. In other words...you have to be strongenough for the job?-- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Nov 18 15:03:42 1999 "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: longer wear on plane blades Before I changed departments I used to work on high speed punch pressesproducing connectors for the electronics industry. All the punch and dieinserts were carbide that had to be reground after so many stokes. Weexperimented with cryogenically treated carbide after being told of theadvantages of this treatment from a company that could supply thesevice.It made no difference at all, it was all hype. A log is aways kept foreach die and how many strokes it made before a regrind. Comparing thehistory of the die with the treated inserts and the usual inserts showedno improvement.Terry timothy troester wrote: michael, a material is heated then dropped to belowminus 310f for 24 hours then returned to room tempover a 24hr period. it increases the durability of anitem from 100% to 1000% depending on the material. itis used on knives and tools, anything with a cuttingedge. as i recall it effects carbon steel between 100%to 200%. there are some cottage industries startingup all over the country where you can have thingscryogenically treated for around $3.00 a lb, more forsmall items. race car drivers cryo treat their engineblocks and it's used on valves and breaks. it doesn'tchange the structure of the material it alignes thefree electrons. it would not ,as i understand it,make the plane blades harder but keep their edgelonger. we've been using cryo treated drill bits andthey are virtually indestructable. look at cryogenictreatment of tools on the web. i'm trying to contacta fellow in des moines that does this. timothy --- "Roberts, Michael"wrote:Timothy,please pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is"cryo treating"?I have ready access to liquid nitrogen and wouldlove to stun my colleagueswith a bamboo rod-related use for the stuff. Theyare already amazed at thethings we bamboo types find a use for. Best regards Mike -----Original Message-----From: timothy troester Sent: Thursday, 18 November 1999 2:15 Subject: longer wear on plane blades greetings! has anyone tried cryo treating theirplane blades yet? i'm checking into it now.timothytroester ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Nov 18 15:16:30 1999 Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper CB433643C22FAAFAE8251151" --------------CB433643C22FAAFAE8251151 We were talking about Salmon, right? not bass. A salmons sole reason tobe in a river is to get upstream to breed, and it needs all the energyit posseses for that purpose.Would a Salmon caught on fly tackle make it upstream and then breed?How the hell can you compare a salmon with a bass. nobler wrote: ----- Original Message -----From: nobler AMSubject: Re: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taperI once caught a really nice stringer of bass. I was late getting in,so left them laying in my trailered boat, for the 90 mile trip home.At home, I got a photo of the fish, and dumped them in the sink, toclean them. Within 5 - min's., they were swimming in the sink,knocking water all over ! The air temp's outside, were close to 30deg's. F ! Regardless of the acid build ups, cold retards a fishesfunctions. I couldn't agree more about nets, etc., and how you don'thandle a fish any longer than needed to release it. Still, a #7 - 6'rod, can apply an awful lot of pressure, and bring a fish to releasepretty fast ! What we do as sportsmen, on a fly, is negligiblecompared to the trout we find stream side, dying from a gut full ofcanned corn ! Stupid is, as stupid does ! GMA ----- Original Message -----From: jon beckton Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 8:09 AMSubject: Re: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taperGMA (nobler) wrote: Reviving a spent fish, requires nothing more than movingit in the flow, until it can swim away on its own. Heatkills 99% of all caught fish ! Keep them cold, and they willlive ! In view of the water temps. for such fish as troutand salmon, this should put no extrastress on them, otherwise don't try to hook them at all ! According to the books and articles on CAR that I've read,it's thestress of being hooked and played that causes a build-up oflactic acidin the fishes muscles that makes the difference. Play thefish too longand too much lactic acid will build up which can't then beflushed awaynaturally. Result, one dead fish, either now or within avery short timeafter release. Heat will increase the stress levels on the fish, thusincreasing lacticacid production, thus putting the fish past the point of noreturn thatmuch quicker. But I don't believe that cold water guaranteesa fishessurvival; play 'em long enough and you'll still kill 'em. Anything that reduces the time between hook-up and releasecan only makethe chance of releasing a healthy fish that'll live to fightanother daythat much better. Barbless hooks, knotless mesh landingnets, heavytippets and rods that are man enough for the job all help,as does nottouching the fish with dry hands, not squeezing them tootight, carefulrevival, etc, etc. No doubt there are folk on the list who know a lot moreabout this thanI do. Any other advice on this? Jon Beckton --------------CB433643C22FAAFAE8251151 We were talking about Salmon, right? not bass. A salmons sole reason tobe in a river is to get upstream to breed, and it needs all the energyit posseses for that purpose.Would a Salmon caught on fly tackle make it upstream and then breed?How the hell can you compare a salmon with a bass. nobler wrote: ----- Original Message -----From: nobler Thursday, November 18, 1999 8:45 AMSubject: Re: Fw: LeeWulf/Orvistaper was late getting in, so left them laying in my trailered boat, for the90 mile trip home. At home, I got a photo of the fish, and dumped themin the sink, to clean them. Within 5 - min's., they were swimming in thesink, knocking water all over ! The air temp's outside, were close to 30 retardsa fishes functions. I couldn't agree more about nets, etc., and how youdon't handle a fish any longer than needed to release it. Still, a #7 -6' rod, can apply an awful lot of pressure, and bring a fish to releasepretty fast ! What we do as sportsmen, on a fly, is negligible comparedto the trout we find stream side, dying from a gut full of canned corn ----- Original Message ----- From:jonbeckton Sent: Thursday, November 18, 19998:09 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvistaper Reviving a spent fish, requires nothing more than moving it in theflow, until it can swim away on its own. Heat kills 99% of all caught fish! Keep them cold, and they will live ! In view of the water temps. forsuch fish as trout and salmon, this should put no extrastress on them, otherwise don't try to hook them at all ! According to the books and articles on CAR that I've read, it's thestress of being hooked and played that causes a build-up of lacticacidin the fishes muscles that makes the difference. Play the fish toolongand too much lactic acid will build up which can't then be flushedawaynaturally. Result, one dead fish, either now or within a very shorttimeafter release. Heat will increase the stress levels on the fish, thus increasing lacticacid production, thus putting the fish past the point of no returnthatmuch quicker. But I don't believe that cold water guarantees a fishessurvival; play 'em long enough and you'll still kill 'em. Anything that reduces the time between hook-up and release can onlymakethe chance of releasing a healthy fish that'll live to fight anotherdaythat much better. Barbless hooks, knotless mesh landing nets, heavytippets and rods that are man enough for the job all help, as doesnottouching the fish with dry hands, not squeezing them too tight,carefulrevival, etc, etc. No doubt there are folk on the list who know a lot more about this thanI do. Any other advice on this? Jon Beckton --------------CB433643C22FAAFAE8251151-- from tragich23@juno.com Thu Nov 18 15:20:36 1999 16:18:46 EST jourdoktorn@starport.se, cmj@post11.tele.dk,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper your not alone Bob.ai On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 08:35:22 -0600 "Bob Nunley" writes:Sean,Was gonna keep my mouth shut, but now that someone out there agrees withme, I can at least flutter a little bit on my way out the door.I love the short rods. If you have seen my rods, the longest one I makeis 8 ft. Most of what I make are 6', 6'6" and 7'. I have seen customersbring in some mighty fine fish with the 6 footers.Well, I am going now, on my way to Canon City... By the way, the rod Iam taking with me is a 6 foot rod. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Jerry Snider Cc: jourdoktorn@starport.se ; cmj@post11.tele.dk; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, November 18, 1999 8:21 AMSubject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Sean, I would dearly love to put you on the 150 yd. wide Missouri River inMontana with a 35 year veteran fly fisher of that river. I have seen him(and even had more than my own share of fish while fishing with him) land19"-22" trout time and again with an A. J. Thramer 4'4" taper in a verytimely fashion using dry flies ranging from 18-24's. He rarely looses afish. Indeed, he has landed in a timely fashion fish up to 7 lbs with theshorter rod. Why? Simply because it is what he prefers. I know all of thearguments for 9' rods, however it is also about having fun and thechallenge. As long as the fish are landed in a timely fashion, revived,let us folks with the short rods enjoy our bliss (albeit in completeignorance!) ;>)J. Snider. At 10:02 PM 11/18/99 +1100, Sean McSharry wrote:Hello: We seem to have an overlap on the question of 6' rods for salmon.The one that comes to mind is the Paul Young 6' Midge. This wassuggested by Arnold Gingrich as a salmon rod, and on Eastern US rivershe caught them. The rod was turned on its axis to relieve strain, Iunderstand, and the arm and reel were the prime instruments for landingthe fish. For flies that are grabbed, that might be a successfulcatching technique (but appreciate the remarks on the fish's chancesafter a long struggle). For dry fly fishing for trout on wide and quietwater, the hooking ability of such short rods is very poor. Sean ANDREW J INGRAM wrote: I would like to build a 6' 7wt salmon rod. I mostly fish and build shortrods. If someone out there has a taper I can try I would appreciate itand post how it fishes when the rod is finished. As for hair brained,maybe I am too.thank youAI On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 02:07:17 +0100 jan =?iso-8859- 1?Q?nystr=F6m?=writes:Sorry Fellow Listers, I made a little mistake in my recent listings of Lee Wulf rods.The line of rods were made by "The House of Farlow" in England andnot by Orvis, sorry! Orvis made some rods also by help from mr LeeWulff though, the Superfine one-piece 6ft, the Deluxe 2-piece 6*,7 and 7*ft rods. Here the message is again, corrected: The House of Farlow made several lengths of this so called "LeeWulff" model Length 6ft 1 5/8 oz 2 tips line WF76ft 1 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF76.5ft 2 1/4 oz 2 tips line WF77ft 2 3/4 oz 2 tips line WF77.5ft 3 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF78ft 4 oz 2 tips line WF78.5ft 4 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF8 The 6ft rods were called Midge Armour Cane rods, the others justLee Wulf Armour Cane. Thereare several pictures of mr Lee Wulf and others catching bigsalmons with this and Orvis Deluxe6*ft Midge rods. As long as the shore allows free movement withoutrocks and trees there are noproblems catching and trailing big salmons with a very small rod.The angel of attack rod - line isdetermining the impact on the rod, not the length or diameter ofthe rod. It will be quite a bittougher on your arm though. regards,Jan Nystrom Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine has had thehare-brained idea that he wants to catchsalmon with a Lee Wulfsalmon rod, 6'#5-6. I seem to remember having read thatit is anOrvis Rod. Assuming this is not a joke, does anyone know of thisrod? Info and taper wanted. My friend is a rodmaker, cane, and Ido think he he serious about making this rod.Can You imagine a30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod? Should beratherlively, I'd say. regards, Carsten from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Nov 18 15:25:29 1999 Subject: BambooEarl List,I received my shipment of bamboo today from Cary Chan. Haven't reallyhad a chance to look it over completely but what I have seen so far is not bad. One culm is huge at the base but I didn't look at it yet. when I get home from school tonight I plan on looking at all of it. I will give my opinion when I can look it all over, and I plan on splitting some out this weekend Bret from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Nov 18 16:23:42 1999 Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper I can remember a big Canadian showing me how much line he could get inthe airwith his Farlow's midge (or was it a Scottie?). The rod was an uglybroomstickaffair and the guy had to use lots of arm to work it. The ferrule on the oldrod started to part company from the cane and I was not impressed. Therodwas no relation to the PY midge.Wulff had a great deal of clout during his lifetime and am sure if he fishedwith an antenna the market would have followed.terry Michael Leitheiser wrote: believe "Armor Cane" was the Farlow Label. The old NormThompson/Farlow/Lee Wulf connection of the 1960s did indeed toutWulfs useof a 6 footer for Atlantic Salmon. In 1962 on the river Dee inAperdeenshire Wulff and Jock Scott had a fairly well publicised match inwhich Wulff landed several Salmon on a 6ft. 2oz rod(source, The Joys ofTrout, Arnold Gingrich) and my own somewhat hazy memory of why myfirstcane rod was a 6ft. Farlow midge ("Midge" was certainly a misnomer, thelittle sucker took a wf7 or 6 to load well and throw line). At 01:43 AM 11/18/99 +0100, you wrote:Fellow Listers and Carsten, yes Orvis made several lengths of this so called Lee Wulf model Length 6ft 1 5/8 oz 2 tips line WF76ft 1 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF76.5ft 2 1/4 oz 2 tips line WF77ft 2 3/4 oz 2 tips line WF77.5ft 3 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF78ft 4 oz 2 tips line WF78.5ft 4 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF8 The 6ft rods were called Midge Armour Cane rods, the others justLee Wulf Armour Cane. There are several pictures of mr Lee Wulfand others catching big salmons with this and Orvis Deluxe Midgerods. As long as the shore allows free movement without rocks andtrees there are no problems catching and trailing big salmons witha very small rod. The angel of attack rod - line is determiningthe impact on the rod, not the length or diameter of the rod. Itwill be quite a bit tougher on your arm though. regards,Jan Nystrom Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine has had thehare-brained idea that he wants to catchsalmon with a Lee Wulfsalmon rod, 6'#5-6. I seem to remember having read thatit is anOrvis Rod. Assuming this is not a joke, does anyone know of thisrod? Info and taper wanted. My friend is a rodmaker, cane, and Ido think he he serious about making this rod.Can You imagine a30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod? Should beratherlively, I'd say. regards, Carsten Attachment Converted: "C:\TEMP\ReLeeWu1" Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Nov 18 16:53:11 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:53:19 -0600 "TERENCE ACKLAND" Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF31E5.63FF22C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF31E5.63FF22C0 The correlation was that fish are cold blooded, and do go more dormant, =the colder they get. Bass certainly wouldn't require nearly as much =cold, as the species are only relevant, in that their metabolism does = Abusing anything can kill it. I just find it hard to think of fighting a =fish, as killing it. If that bothered me, I wouldn't do it at all ! The days of keeping huge stringers are long past, and any sensible =fisher person respects our relevant. What all the fly fishermen in the =world do to the fish population, in a year, doesn't amount to one day's =destruction by the Japanese mass slaughter on the high seas ! GMA Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 3:19 PMSubject: Re: Fw: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper We were talking about Salmon, right? not bass. A salmons sole reason =to be in a river is to get upstream to breed, and it needs all the = Would a Salmon caught on fly tackle make it upstream and then From: nobler AMSubject: Re: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taperI once caught a really nice stringer of bass. I was late getting =in, so left them laying in my trailered boat, for the 90 mile trip home. =At home, I got a photo of the fish, and dumped them in the sink, to =clean them. Within 5 - min's., they were swimming in the sink, knocking =water all over ! The air temp's outside, were close to 30 deg's. F ! =Regardless of the acid build ups, cold retards a fishes functions. I=couldn't agree more about nets, etc., and how you don't handle a fish =any longer than needed to release it. Still, a #7 - 6' rod, can apply an =awful lot of pressure, and bring a fish to release pretty fast ! What we =do as sportsmen, on a fly, is negligible compared to the trout we find =stream side, dying from a gut full of canned corn ! Stupid is, as stupid = ----- Original Message -----From: jon beckton Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 8:09 AMSubject: Re: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Reviving a spent fish, requires nothing more than moving it in =the flow, until it can swim away on its own. Heat kills 99% of all =caught fish ! Keep them cold, and they will live ! In view of the water = According to the books and articles on CAR that I've read, it's = stress of being hooked and played that causes a build-up of lactic = in the fishes muscles that makes the difference. Play the fish too = and too much lactic acid will build up which can't then be flushed = naturally. Result, one dead fish, either now or within a very = Heat will increase the stress levels on the fish, thus increasing = acid production, thus putting the fish past the point of no return = much quicker. But I don't believe that cold water guarantees a = Anything that reduces the time between hook-up and release can = the chance of releasing a healthy fish that'll live to fight = that much better. Barbless hooks, knotless mesh landing nets, = tippets and rods that are man enough for the job all help, as does = touching the fish with dry hands, not squeezing them too tight, = No doubt there are folk on the list who know a lot more about this = Jon Beckton ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF31E5.63FF22C0 The correlation was that fish are cold = go more dormant, the colder they get. Bass certainly wouldn't require = much cold, as the species are only relevant, in that their metabolism = down, the colder it gets. Abusing anything can kill it. I just find it hard to think = fighting a fish, as killing it. If that bothered me, I wouldn't do it at = ! The days of keeping huge stringers are long past, and any = fisher person respects our relevant. What all the fly fishermen in the = to the fish population, in a year, doesn't amount to one day's = the Japanese mass slaughter on the high seas =! GMA ----- Original Message ----- ACKLAND Cc: Rodmakers Sent: Thursday, November 18, = PMSubject: Re: Fw: Fw: Lee = taperWe were talking about Salmon, right? not bass. A = reason to be in a river is to get upstream to breed, and it needs all = energy it posseses for that purpose. Would a Salmon caught on fly = make it upstream and then breed? How the hell can you compare a = From: = bass. I was late getting in, so left them laying in my trailered = the 90 mile trip home. At home, I got a photo of the fish, and = in the sink, to clean them. Within 5 - min's., they were swimming in = sink, knocking water all over ! The air temp's outside, were close = a fishes functions. I couldn't agree more about nets, etc., and how = don't handle a fish any longer than needed to release it. Still, a = rod, can apply an awful lot of pressure, and bring a fish to release = fast ! What we do as sportsmen, on a fly, is negligible compared to = ----- Original Message ----- beckton Sent: Thursday, November = 8:09 AMSubject: Re: Fw: Lee = flow, until it can swim away on its own. Heat kills 99% of all = ! Keep them cold, and they will live ! In view of the water temps. = such fish as trout and salmon, this should put no extra stress = to the books and articles on CAR that I've read, it's the = being hooked and played that causes a build-up of lactic acid = fishes muscles that makes the difference. Play the fish too long = too much lactic acid will build up which can't then be flushed = naturally. Result, one dead fish, either now or within a very = Heat will increase the stress levels on the fish, thus = lactic acid production, thus putting the fish past the point = guarantees a fishes survival; play 'em long enough and you'll = Anything that reduces the time between hook-up and release can = make the chance of releasing a healthy fish that'll live to = another day that much better. Barbless hooks, knotless mesh = nets, heavy tippets and rods that are man enough for the job = as does not touching the fish with dry hands, not squeezing = No doubt there are folk on the list who know a lot more about = ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF31E5.63FF22C0-- from seanmcs@ar.com.au Thu Nov 18 17:46:07 1999 Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:36:07 +1100 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Jerry: I could take your suggestion (?invitation) most seriously! Whatis the best time of year in Montana, to which I never got in all theyears living in NYC. My problem may have been unique, but I had a verylow success rate hooking rises at some distance with the 6' PY Midge, soa lesson or three with your pal (and for fish that size) would be morethan welcome. Sean Jerry Snider wrote: Sean, I would dearly love to put you on the 150 yd. wide Missouri River inMontana with a 35 year veteran fly fisher of that river. I have seen him(and even had more than my own share of fish while fishing with him)land19"-22" trout time and again with an A. J. Thramer 4'4" taper in a verytimely fashion using dry flies ranging from 18-24's. He rarely looses afish. Indeed, he has landed in a timely fashion fish up to 7 lbs with theshorter rod. Why? Simply because it is what he prefers. I know all ofthearguments for 9' rods, however it is also about having fun and thechallenge. As long as the fish are landed in a timely fashion, revived,let us folks with the short rods enjoy our bliss (albeit in completeignorance!) ;>)J. Snider. At 10:02 PM 11/18/99 +1100, Sean McSharry wrote:Hello: We seem to have an overlap on the question of 6' rods for salmon.The one that comes to mind is the Paul Young 6' Midge. This wassuggested by Arnold Gingrich as a salmon rod, and on Eastern US rivershe caught them. The rod was turned on its axis to relieve strain, Iunderstand, and the arm and reel were the prime instruments forlandingthe fish. For flies that are grabbed, that might be a successfulcatching technique (but appreciate the remarks on the fish's chancesafter a long struggle). For dry fly fishing for trout on wide and quietwater, the hooking ability of such short rods is very poor. Sean ANDREW J INGRAM wrote: I would like to build a 6' 7wt salmon rod. I mostly fish and build shortrods. If someone out there has a taper I can try I would appreciate itand post how it fishes when the rod is finished. As for hair brained,maybe I am too.thank youAI On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 02:07:17 +0100 jan =?iso-8859- 1?Q?nystr=F6m?=writes:Sorry Fellow Listers, I made a little mistake in my recent listings of Lee Wulf rods.The line of rods were made by "The House of Farlow" in England andnot by Orvis, sorry! Orvis made some rods also by help from mr LeeWulff though, the Superfine one-piece 6ft, the Deluxe 2-piece 6*,7 and 7*ft rods. Here the message is again, corrected: The House of Farlow made several lengths of this so called "LeeWulff" model Length 6ft 1 5/8 oz 2 tips line WF76ft 1 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF76.5ft 2 1/4 oz 2 tips line WF77ft 2 3/4 oz 2 tips line WF77.5ft 3 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF78ft 4 oz 2 tips line WF78.5ft 4 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF8 The 6ft rods were called Midge Armour Cane rods, the others justLee Wulf Armour Cane. Thereare several pictures of mr Lee Wulf and others catching bigsalmons with this and Orvis Deluxe6*ft Midge rods. As long as the shore allows free movement withoutrocks and trees there are noproblems catching and trailing big salmons with a very small rod.The angel of attack rod - line isdetermining the impact on the rod, not the length or diameter ofthe rod. It will be quite a bittougher on your arm though. regards,Jan Nystrom Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine has had thehare-brained idea that he wants to catchsalmon with a Lee Wulfsalmon rod, 6'#5-6. I seem to remember having read thatit is anOrvis Rod. Assuming this is not a joke, does anyone know of thisrod? Info and taper wanted. My friend is a rodmaker, cane, and Ido think he he serious about making this rod.Can You imagine a30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod? Should beratherlively, I'd say. regards, Carsten from seanmcs@ar.com.au Thu Nov 18 17:46:36 1999 Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:39:13 +1100 cmj@post11.tele.dk, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Bob: Thanks for your insight. Where do you suggest I might take a shortrod lesson? I'm off to count my bonus miles... Thanks. Sean Bob Nunley wrote: Sean,Was gonna keep my mouth shut, but now that someone out there agreeswithme, I can at least flutter a little bit on my way out the door.I love the short rods. If you have seen my rods, the longest one I makeis 8 ft. Most of what I make are 6', 6'6" and 7'. I have seen customersbring in some mighty fine fish with the 6 footers.Well, I am going now, on my way to Canon City... By the way, the rod Iam taking with me is a 6 foot rod. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Jerry Snider Cc: jourdoktorn@starport.se ;cmj@post11.tele.dk; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, November 18, 1999 8:21 AMSubject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Sean, I would dearly love to put you on the 150 yd. wide Missouri River inMontana with a 35 year veteran fly fisher of that river. I have seen him(and even had more than my own share of fish while fishing with him)land19"-22" trout time and again with an A. J. Thramer 4'4" taper in a verytimely fashion using dry flies ranging from 18-24's. He rarely looses afish. Indeed, he has landed in a timely fashion fish up to 7 lbs with theshorter rod. Why? Simply because it is what he prefers. I know all ofthearguments for 9' rods, however it is also about having fun and thechallenge. As long as the fish are landed in a timely fashion, revived,let us folks with the short rods enjoy our bliss (albeit in completeignorance!) ;>)J. Snider. At 10:02 PM 11/18/99 +1100, Sean McSharry wrote:Hello: We seem to have an overlap on the question of 6' rods for salmon.The one that comes to mind is the Paul Young 6' Midge. This wassuggested by Arnold Gingrich as a salmon rod, and on Eastern US rivershe caught them. The rod was turned on its axis to relieve strain, Iunderstand, and the arm and reel were the prime instruments forlandingthe fish. For flies that are grabbed, that might be a successfulcatching technique (but appreciate the remarks on the fish's chancesafter a long struggle). For dry fly fishing for trout on wide and quietwater, the hooking ability of such short rods is very poor. Sean ANDREW J INGRAM wrote: I would like to build a 6' 7wt salmon rod. I mostly fish and build shortrods. If someone out there has a taper I can try I would appreciate itand post how it fishes when the rod is finished. As for hair brained,maybe I am too.thank youAI On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 02:07:17 +0100 jan =?iso-8859- 1?Q?nystr=F6m?=writes:Sorry Fellow Listers, I made a little mistake in my recent listings of Lee Wulf rods.The line of rods were made by "The House of Farlow" in England andnot by Orvis, sorry! Orvis made some rods also by help from mr LeeWulff though, the Superfine one-piece 6ft, the Deluxe 2-piece 6*,7 and 7*ft rods. Here the message is again, corrected: The House of Farlow made several lengths of this so called "LeeWulff" model Length 6ft 1 5/8 oz 2 tips line WF76ft 1 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF76.5ft 2 1/4 oz 2 tips line WF77ft 2 3/4 oz 2 tips line WF77.5ft 3 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF78ft 4 oz 2 tips line WF78.5ft 4 7/8 oz 2 tips line WF8 The 6ft rods were called Midge Armour Cane rods, the others justLee Wulf Armour Cane. Thereare several pictures of mr Lee Wulf and others catching bigsalmons with this and Orvis Deluxe6*ft Midge rods. As long as the shore allows free movement withoutrocks and trees there are noproblems catching and trailing big salmons with a very small rod.The angel of attack rod - line isdetermining the impact on the rod, not the length or diameter ofthe rod. It will be quite a bittougher on your arm though. regards,Jan Nystrom Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Fellow Listers A Norwegian friend of mine has had thehare-brained idea that he wants to catchsalmon with a Lee Wulfsalmon rod, 6'#5-6. I seem to remember having read thatit is anOrvis Rod. Assuming this is not a joke, does anyone know of thisrod? Info and taper wanted. My friend is a rodmaker, cane, and Ido think he he serious about making this rod.Can You imagine a30 lb salmon in a fast river on such a rod? Should beratherlively, I'd say. regards, Carsten from lars32@gateway.net Thu Nov 18 19:04:57 1999 Subject: Air Cleaner boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF31F7.DD9B7860" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF31F7.DD9B7860 Anyone know of a source of a small air cleaner suitable for use in a =dipping station Dave ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF31F7.DD9B7860 Anyone know of a source of asmall = Dave ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF31F7.DD9B7860-- from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Thu Nov 18 19:15:06 1999 Subject: Sanding vs, Scraping Hi, After reading about all the problems with bamboo dust and roundingcornerswhile sanding why does anyone still sand. Scraping, although a littleharderto master leaves a far superior surface for finish, there is no dust to dealwith and no rounded corners. Paul from saweiss@flash.net Thu Nov 18 19:26:08 1999 Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Jerry: I could take your suggestion (?invitation) most seriously! Whatis the best time of year in Montana, to which I never got in all theyears living in NYC. My problem may have been unique, but I had a verylow success rate hooking rises at some distance with the 6' PY Midge, soa lesson or three with your pal (and for fish that size) would be morethan welcome. Sean Hooking success, IMHO has more to do with line handling than with rodlength, although a long rod will keep more line off the water and help withmends. The most important factor in hooking is keeping a minimum ofslackline between the rod tip and the fly, assuming that one is not asleep andhas a decent reaction time.Steve from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Thu Nov 18 19:44:25 1999 Subject: Re: Air Cleaner boundary="----=_NextPart_000_083F_01BF3205.086C3E00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_083F_01BF3205.086C3E00 Try an office supply store. Back in the days when smoking was permitted =in offices you used to be able to get small smoke eaters that filtered = I have a 250cfm unit that hangs from the ceiling in my shop. It does a =fantastic job of removing particles (spec says 5 micron) from the air. =Within a few minutes of using any tool in the shop there are no = Paul Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 10:05 PMSubject: Air Cleaner Anyone know of a source of a small air cleaner suitable for use in a =dipping station Dave ------=_NextPart_000_083F_01BF3205.086C3E00 Try an office supply store. Back in the days when = permitted in offices you used to be able to get small smoke eaters that = the air for the rest of us. I have a 250cfm unit that hangs from the ceiling in = It does a fantastic job of removing particles (spec says 5 micron) from = Within a few minutes of using any tool in the shop there are no = particles in the air. Paul ----- Original Message ----- lars32 = Sent: Thursday, November 18, = PMSubject: Air Cleaner Anyone know of a source of asmall = Dave ------=_NextPart_000_083F_01BF3205.086C3E00-- from ChristopherO@epicrad.com Thu Nov 18 20:36:47 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Hi guys. Actually, a fishing rod is a third class lever (like a shovel)with both the load and the force applied on the same side of the fulcrum (the fulcrum or center of rotation is effectively your elbow: force isapplied by you to the grip (a foot or so up the lever arm) and by the fishwaaayy out at the end). The longer the lever, the greater mechanicaladvantage you can supply (i.e. The is a longer arc of motion at the end ofthe lever and greater velocity), but the torque against which you work isalso increased by the square of the difference in length. Oh, by the way, I'm new to the list. I'm a rod builder originally fromPittsburgh Pennsylvania, lately of Portland Oregon. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Nothing like starting the day with a lesson in physics A fellow listmember had this to say: The above seems to make sense. In other words...you have to be strongenough for the job?-- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Thu Nov 18 22:01:04 1999 Subject: acceptable measurements Hello All,I am just wondering what the average variations are from flat to flat and from 5" station settings on the forms. My measurements all seem tobe within the .005 range +/- , is this O. K, and what can I do to make it better. I would like to here all of your opinions on this. Terry A. are you out there for this one? Always good to here your opinion! from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Nov 18 22:22:43 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A1B76ADD0058; Thu, 18 Nov 1999 23:27:35 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Chriss,The rod as a lever in fighting the fish, would have as the fulcrum themiddle finger of the hand which is gripping the rod. The arm is a secondarylever in this case, and merely serves to move the fulcrum in space.The fish certainly has the long end of the lever, and the longer thelever, the more torque the fish can exert. For example, I have 3wt rods in6',7', 8', and 9' lengths (does anyone have a 10' 3wt taper?); the same sizefishgives me a much "better" fight on the 9' than on the 6'.Best regards,Reed "Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD" wrote: Hi guys. Actually, a fishing rod is a third class lever (like a shovel)with both the load and the force applied on the same side of the fulcrum(the fulcrum or center of rotation is effectively your elbow: force isapplied by you to the grip (a foot or so up the lever arm) and by the fishwaaayy out at the end). The longer the lever, the greater mechanicaladvantage you can supply (i.e. The is a longer arc of motion at the end ofthe lever and greater velocity), but the torque against which you work isalso increased by the square of the difference in length. Oh, by the way, I'm new to the list. I'm a rod builder originally fromPittsburgh Pennsylvania, lately of Portland Oregon. -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 11:44 AM Cc: rod 'akersSubject: Re: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Nothing like starting the day with a lesson in physics A fellow listmember had this to say: around a fulcrum (somewhere around the mid grip, or wherever the rodbalances) You could fight a fish equally with a 10" rod, but it wouldrequire a significantly greater torque (provided by youarm/elbow/wrist)to provide the equal leverage. It would seem a longer rod would be alot better though...At least that's my understanding from anintroductory course to Newtonian Physics.> The above seems to make sense. In other words...you have to be strongenough for the job?--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from tragich23@juno.com Fri Nov 19 02:41:22 1999 03:40:13 EST Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper JUST THE JAPPANESE? WHAT ABOUT GILL NETS BY COMMERCIAL FISHERMENIN THEU.S.. IT'S EASY TO BLAME PEOPLE YOU DON'T KNOW. THIS IS NOT THEFORUM. EVERY SOCIETY ON EARTH ABUSES NATURAL RESOURCES. HOW MANY SALMON DID THE B.O.R. KILL WHEN THEY BUILT DAMS ALL OVERTHEPACIFIC AND ATLANTIC COASTS. HOW MANY TROUT DID THE FISH AND GAMEDEPARTMENT KILL WHEN THEY PRACTICED SELECTIVE GENOCYDE ON ALL THECUTTHROAT SPECIES AND THE KERN RIVER RAINBOW WHEN THEY PLANTEDNON NATIVEFISH. HOW MANY LAHONTAN CUTTHROAT DID AMERICANS KILL ANDTRANSPORT (TOEAT) ALL OVER THE U.S. from PYRAMID AND TAHOE. WHAT ABOUT THESAMEAMERICANS THAT EXTINCT THE WHOLE SPECIES BY BUILDING DERBY DAM SOAMERICANS COULD GROW BASICALLY NOTHING BUT HAY. DID YOU KNOW THEYCLUBBEDTHE FISH THEY COULD NOT CATCH WITH THEIR HANDS (THAT MEANS NORODS ORNETS IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND). AMERICANS ARE THE MOST GLUTTONOUSSOCIETYIN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD. DO YOU WANT MORE OPINIONS OR DO YOUWANT TOTALK ABOUT BAMBOO? TRY NOT TO BE RACIST. On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:53:08 -0600 "nobler" writes:The correlation was that fish are cold blooded, and do go more dormant, the colder they get. Bass certainly wouldn't require nearly as much cold, as the species are only relevant, in that their metabolism does slow down, the colder it gets. Abusing anything can kill it. I just find it hard to think of fighting a fish, as killing it. If that bothered me, I wouldn't do it at all ! The days of keeping huge stringers are long past, and any sensible fisher person respects our relevant. What all the fly fishermen in the world do to the fish population, in a year, doesn't amount to one day's destruction by the Japanese mass slaughter on the high seas ! GMA----- Original Message ----- From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: Rodmakers Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 3:19 PMSubject: Re: Fw: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper We were talking about Salmon, right? not bass. A salmons sole reason to be in a river is to get upstream to breed, and it needs all the energy it posseses for that purpose. Would a Salmon caught on fly tackle make it upstream and then breed? How the hell can you compare a salmon with a bass. nobler wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: nobler AMSubject: Re: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taperI once caught a really nice stringer of bass. I was late getting in, so left them laying in my trailered boat, for the 90 mile trip home. At home, I got a photo of the fish, and dumped them in the sink, to clean them. Within 5 - min's., they were swimming in the sink, knocking water all over ! The air temp's outside, were close to 30 deg's. F ! Regardless of the acid build ups, cold retards a fishes functions. I couldn't agree more about nets, etc., and how you don't handle a fish any longer than needed to release it. Still, a #7 - 6' rod, can apply an awful lot of pressure, and bring a fish to release pretty fast ! What we do as sportsmen, on a fly, is negligible compared to the trout we find stream side, dying from a gut full of canned corn ! Stupid is, as stupid does ! GMA ----- Original Message -----From: jon beckton Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 8:09 AMSubject: Re: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taperGMA (nobler) wrote: Reviving a spent fish, requires nothing more than moving it in the flow, until it can swim away on its own. Heat kills 99% of all caught fish ! Keep them cold, and they will live ! In view of the water temps. for such fish as trout and salmon, this should put no extra stress on them, otherwise don't try to hook them at all ! According to the books and articles on CAR that I've read, it's the stress of being hooked and played that causes a build-up of lactic acid in the fishes muscles that makes the difference. Play the fish too long and too much lactic acid will build up which can't then be flushed away naturally. Result, one dead fish, either now or within a very short time after release. Heat will increase the stress levels on the fish, thus increasing lactic acid production, thus putting the fish past the point of no return that much quicker. But I don't believe that cold water guarantees a fishes survival; play 'em long enough and you'll still kill 'em. Anything that reduces the time between hook-up and release can only make the chance of releasing a healthy fish that'll live to fight another day that much better. Barbless hooks, knotless mesh landing nets, heavy tippets and rods that are man enough for the job all help, as does not touching the fish with dry hands, not squeezing them too tight, careful revival, etc, etc. No doubt there are folk on the list who know a lot more about this than I do. Any other advice on this? Jon Beckton from mrj@aa.net Fri Nov 19 03:03:21 1999 Fri, 19 Nov 1999 01:03:16 -0800 Subject: RE: acceptable measurements How many rods have you made? Really if you can get .005 tolerance that isnot all bad. Your tolerance will improve simply with repetition. Just keepat it. No magic is involved here. Just experience. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Eastkoyfly@aol.com Subject: acceptable measurements Hello All,I am just wondering what the average variations are from flat to flatand from 5" station settings on the forms. My measurements all seem tobewithin the .005 range +/- , is this O. K, and what can I do to make itbetter. I would like to here all of your opinions on this. Terry A. are youout there for this one? Always good to here your opinion! from hsilver@pyx.net Fri Nov 19 04:07:38 1999 Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Can we return to bamboo rod building postings yet ? Harley Silver Email for some is a replacement for a CB radio. On Fri, 19 Nov 1999, ANDREW J INGRAM wrote: JUST THE JAPPANESE? WHAT ABOUT GILL NETS BY COMMERCIALFISHERMEN IN THEU.S.. IT'S EASY TO BLAME PEOPLE YOU DON'T KNOW. THIS IS NOT THEFORUM. [You're correct, its not...SNIP] from lars32@gateway.net Fri Nov 19 06:16:11 1999 "Jerry Snider" Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Could be your missed fish are refusals. Maybe you should look to your fliesand not the rod!-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Jerry: I could take your suggestion (?invitation) most seriously! Whatis the best time of year in Montana, to which I never got in all theyears living in NYC. My problem may have been unique, but I had a verylow success rate hooking rises at some distance with the 6' PY Midge,soa lesson or three with your pal (and for fish that size) would be morethan welcome. Sean Hooking success, IMHO has more to do with line handling than with rodlength, although a long rod will keep more line off the water and helpwithmends. The most important factor in hooking is keeping a minimum ofslackline between the rod tip and the fly, assuming that one is not asleep andhas a decent reaction time.Steve from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Nov 19 07:32:29 1999 Subject: Re: acceptable measurements RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 11/19/99 4:59:03 AM, Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote: I have always thought that tolerances would be better expressed as a percentage of design thickness, rather than in thousandths. That .005 error on a .062 tip would be about 8%, and would likely be noticeable whencasting. The same error near the butt would probably ammount to less than 2% ,and be insignificant. from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Fri Nov 19 07:43:33 1999 0500 Subject: RE: Sanding vs, Scraping I, for one, am scared of chatter marks or other scars. My experience withfurniture making leads me to expect that even a "minor" scraper scar canbevery difficult to remove. Also, how do you hold the rod steady so itdoesn't twist under the scraper? I imagine this would be a problemespecially towards the tip end. Lastly, a scraper takes off a (relatively)lot of material, compared to a very fine sanding - do you compensate forthis by planing extra large strips? If so, how do you know how much tocompensate for? -----Original Message-----From: PMG [SMTP:pmgoodwin@earthlink.net]Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 8:11 PM Subject: Sanding vs, Scraping Hi, After reading about all the problems with bamboo dust and roundingcornerswhile sanding why does anyone still sand. Scraping, although a littleharderto master leaves a far superior surface for finish, there is no dust todealwith and no rounded corners. Paul from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Fri Nov 19 08:35:04 1999 Subject: Re: acceptable measurements RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Ray and All, from flat to flat, my measurements are sometimes off by .002, butusually they are off by less than .001. But, on the form settings sometimes theyare off by .004 or less. Could this mean that the planing forms are not accurate? What are some of your tolerances? Any input would be greatlyappreciated. Thanks,Joe from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Nov 19 08:47:57 1999 1999 06:47:54 PST Subject: Re: acceptable measurements joe, it could mean that what you measure the finishedrod with and what you set your forms with are off fromone another. also, glue takes up space,too. i,myself, set my forms .001 less than the specifiedtaper. this works for me. some people don't touchthe exterior of the cane till after glueing andaccount for that another way. if you are juststarting and you are having only a .002 variancearound the flats. that is good! if you areconsistantly off .004 or 3 from your settings from rodto rod you can adjust for that too. alot of peoplewould be jealous of these numbers. i'm anxious tohear how the rod fishes. timothy --- Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote:Ray and All, from flat to flat, my measurements are sometimesoff by .002, but usually they are off by less than .001. But, on the formsettings sometimes they are off by .004 or less. Could this mean that theplaning forms are not accurate? What are some of your tolerances? Any input wouldbe greatly appreciated. Thanks,Joe ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Fri Nov 19 09:17:55 1999 Subject: Fwd: acceptable measurements boundary="part1_0.8947124.2566c3fa_boundary" --part1_0.8947124.2566c3fa_boundary --part1_0.8947124.2566c3fa_boundary Full-name: Eastkoyfly Subject: Re: acceptable measurements RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Ray and All, from flat to flat, my measurements are sometimes off by .002, butusually they are off by less than .001. But, on the form settings sometimes theyare off by .004 or less. Could this mean that the planing forms are not accurate? What are some of your tolerances? Any input would be greatlyappreciated. Thanks,Joe --part1_0.8947124.2566c3fa_boundary-- from rsgould@cmc.net Fri Nov 19 09:27:37 1999 Subject: Short rod value boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF325F.8A431FC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF325F.8A431FC0 Hi to all,The recent postings regarding the use of short rods 6, 6 1/2, 7 ft have =sparked a question. What is your opinion as to exactly why it is that =the "short" rods bring so much more money than the longer ones =especially for the collector who buys a rod made by one of the old =masters. Is it simply a matter of supply and demand? Were they any more=difficult to build? Do they satisfy a particular whim of the weathy? And =a related question would be this: Do you charge more when you sell a =customer a short rod than a longer one and how do you decide what to =charge for a 6ft rod compared to an 8 1/2 ft rod?Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF325F.8A431FC0 Hi to all,The recent postings regarding the use= 6, 6 1/2, 7 ft have sparked a question. What is your opinion as to = it is that the "short" rods bring so much more money than the longer = especially for the collector who buys a rod made by one of the old = it simply a matter of supply and demand? Were they any more difficult to= Do they satisfy a particular whim of the weathy? And a related question = this: Do you charge more when you sell a customer a short rod than a = and how do you decide what to charge for a 6ft rod compared to an 8 1/2 = rod?Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF325F.8A431FC0-- from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Nov 19 10:08:30 1999 Subject: Re: Short rod value boundary="=====================_10362627==_.ALT" --=====================_10362627==_.ALT Ray, I can't directly answer your question since I am a new bamboo rodbuilder(3 yrs). However, as a fly fisher for over 53 years (albeit within a verylimited world of fly fishers), and having learned to fly fish with rods 8'andunder (bamboo and glass, and I believe that my very first fly rod was a 7'or7' 6" bamboo), my experience has been that (the older) folks I fished withpreferred the lighter weight of the short rods, perhaps equating it withmore"feel" when fighting a fish. I won't pretend to argue whether this isaccurate from an engineering standpoint ( from recent posts apparently this is NOTtrue),but in my small world of fly fishers this seemed to be the perception atleast. You were simply a better or perhaps more skilled "sport" if youused ashort rod. Also, such folks as Jason Lucas, who was the fishing editor for(Ibelieve) Sports Afield, and an avid fly fisher as well as fantastic baitcaster(sorry!), had an immense influence on folks during the 1940's and 50's (Iknow,that isn't as far back as you are suggesting) emphasizing that fly rodsshouldbe no longer than 8' and that a 7' rod was far superior. It is well known byall what Lee Wulff's opinions were on this topic. In addition, in my limitedworld short rods WERE more difficult to obtain, and thus were soughtafter. Indeed, ONE of the reasons I took up building bamboo rods (aside from theirsheer beauty and feel) was that I could (hopefully!!!) build short rods to mysatisfaction, and also build one-piece rods if I preferred.You are likely correct--it had snob appeal.If I were selling rods? Nah. I would sell them for the same price as longerrods I suspect.J. Snider At 07:27 AM 11/19/1999 -0800, Ray Gould wrote: Hi to all,The recent postings regarding the use of short rods 6, 6 1/2, 7 ft havesparked a question. What is your opinion as to exactly why it is that the"short" rods bring so much more money than the longer ones especially collector who buys a rod made by one of the old masters. Is it simply amatter of supply and demand? Were they any more difficult to build? Dotheysatisfy a particular whim of the weathy? And a related question wouldbethis: Do you charge more when you sell a customer a short rod than alongerone and how do you decide what to charge for a 6ft rod compared to an 81/2ft rod?Ray --=====================_10362627==_.ALT Ray, I can't directly answer your question since I am a new bamboo rod within a very limited world of fly fishers), and having learned to flyfish with rods 8' and under (bamboo and glass, and I believe that my veryfirst fly rod was a 7' or 7' 6" bamboo), my experience has been that(the older) folks I fished with preferred the lighter weight of the shortrods, perhaps equating it with more "feel" when fighting afish. I won't pretend to argue whether this is accurate from anengineering standpoint ( from recent posts apparently this is NOT true),but in my small world of fly fishers this seemed to be the perception at Jason Lucas, who was the fishing editor for (I believe) Sports Afield,and an avid fly fisher as well as fantastic bait caster (sorry!), had animmense influence on folks during the 1940's and 50's (I know, that isn'tas far back as you are suggesting) emphasizing that fly rods should be nolonger than 8' and that a 7' rod was far superior. It is well known byall what Lee Wulff's opinions were on this topic. In addition, in mylimited world short rods WERE more difficult to obtain, and thus were rods (aside from their sheer beauty and feel) was that I could(hopefully!!!) build short rods to my satisfaction, and also buildone-piece rods if I preferred.You are likely correct--it had snob appeal. as longer rods I suspect.J. Snider At 07:27 AM 11/19/1999 -0800, Ray Gould wrote: Hi toall,The recent postings regarding the use of short rods 6, 6 1/2, 7 ft havesparked a question. What is your opinion as to exactly why it is that the"short" rods bring so much more money than the longer onesespecially for the collector who buys a rod made by one of the oldmasters. Is it simply a matter of supply and demand? Were they any moredifficult to build? Do they satisfy a particular whim of the weathy? Anda related question would be this: Do you charge more when you sell acustomer a short rod than a longer one and how do you decide what tocharge for a 6ft rod compared to an 8 1/2 ft rod?Ray --=====================_10362627==_.ALT-- from brewer@teleport.com Fri Nov 19 10:09:20 1999 "hamachi"via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAA0J88ZT; Fri Nov 1908:09:09 1999 Subject: rod sales question I hope to sell a couple of rods in 2000. How do listmembers handle salestaxcollection for out of state sales? Do you have to charge tax to a broker orjust to a retail customer? I think I understand the federal excise taxprocedures, but the state tax is my concern. Thanks. Randy Brewerbrewer@teleport.com from LambersonW@missouri.edu Fri Nov 19 10:12:36 1999 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: RE: Short rod value It would seem that supply and demand for old rods is a major factor intheirpricing. Rods of 7 1/2 ft and smaller are relatively uncommon comparedtothose of 8 1/2 ft and longer on the used rod lists and auctions. Ipresume that if there are fewer small rods for sale now, fewer weremade. Idoesn't seem like they would be more difficult to make, but perhaps longerrods are more robust in the sense that less less taper quality (?) wasrequired to produce a rod that would cast acceptably. Or, perhaps thedifferent fishing styles or equipment used with the rods made the longerrods relatively more desirable then than now. Certainly tippets weremorefragile and drag systems of reels were less refined. The answer might befound by reading some of the literature of the day to see what type of rodwas recommended. Maybe Joe Trout wrote that it takes a 9 ft rod for anHCHto catch the trophies and it wasn't until Lee Wulff came along that shortrods were demonstrated to be viable fishing tools. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Short rod value Hi to all,The recent postings regarding the use of short rods 6, 6 1/2, 7 ft havesparked a question. What is your opinion as to exactly why it is that the"short" rods bring so much more money than the longer ones especially forthe collector who buys a rod made by one of the old masters. Is it simply amatter of supply and demand? Were they any more difficult to build? Dotheysatisfy a particular whim of the weathy? And a related question would bethis: Do you charge more when you sell a customer a short rod than alongerone and how do you decide what to charge for a 6ft rod compared to an 81/2ft rod?Ray from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Nov 19 11:21:26 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Short rod value... baitcasting rods, spey rods boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01BF326E.F89B9380" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BF326E.F89B9380 Ray, I think that's a great question... IMHO, the short rods were not made as =often as the long rods back in the golden era. But as most of the rod =makers must know, it is probably cheaper and easier to make a short two =piece rod vs a long 3 piece rod... The most expensive rods 50 years ago =were the big spey rods and I'd bet that those are probably far more =scarce than the 7.5' trout rods by the same maker... because they were =very specialized, probably made to order, very expensive and that's =probably why the experts say the spey rods are way undervalued at this =time... How about those antique rods? Made in the 1800's??? Long or short, they =were made by hand, no bevelers or mills... why aren't those going for =big $$$... If scarcity and collectibility is the goal... then modern rod makers =making long rods... those rods should be worth more than the same rods =that are short in 50 years since most makers today make short rods... =confusing, ain't it??? I'll pose this question... maybe 5-10% (pure speculation on my part, =could be even less as I only see 1 baitcasting rod to every 50 fly rods) =of HL Leonard's rod production was devoted to baitcasting rods... so the =baitcasting rods by the masters I'd consider very rare... yet they often =go for a fraction of price of a short Leonard. But that's okay by me for =now as I like to buy them... Another factor is the Lure craze... those =collectors of old lures... guess what kind of rod was used... yep, the =baitcasting rods... So I'd think in a few years the Lure Guys might = How about a J.G. Landman baitcasting rod... how's that for rare... =what's that one worth??? Then there's the Heddon baitcasting rods... =those must have been the tools most bait guys used... I've gotten =several of them and they've been fished hard... while not so scarce, the =quality of workmanship is striking... 1/8" cork rings, walnut winding =check (foregrip) NS hardware, agate line guides, yet many of these in =good condition are found for under $100... Even in excellent condition =they don't often sell for over $200... I guess it's a matter of =demand... or lack thereof... I suppose the other factor somewhat unique to fishers is the utility... =the angling collector wants to be able to fish the rod (but probably =won't)... It's like bell bottoms, wide lapels, ties... the trends come and go... =sometime in the future, perhaps, baitcasting rods and spey rods will be =the hot item... MAYBE... Wish I could still fit into my old bell bottomed Levi's... Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 7:27 AMSubject: Short rod value Hi to all,The recent postings regarding the use of short rods 6, 6 1/2, 7 ft =have sparked a question. What is your opinion as to exactly why it is =that the "short" rods bring so much more money than the longer ones =especially for the collector who buys a rod made by one of the old =masters. Is it simply a matter of supply and demand? Were they any more=difficult to build? Do they satisfy a particular whim of the weathy? And =a related question would be this: Do you charge more when you sell a =customer a short rod than a longer one and how do you decide what to =charge for a 6ft rod compared to an 8 1/2 ft rod?Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BF326E.F89B9380 Ray, I think that's a great = the short rods were not made as often as the long rods back in the = But as most of the rod makers must know, it is probably cheaper and = make a short two piece rod vs a long 3 piece rod... The most expensive = years ago were the big spey rods and I'd bet that those are probably far = scarce than the 7.5' trout rods by the same maker... because they were = specialized, probably made to order, very expensive and that's probably = experts say the spey rods are way undervalued at this =time... How about those antiquerods? = 1800's??? Long or short, they were made by hand, no bevelers or mills... = aren't those going for big $$$... If scarcity and collectibility= goal... then modern rod makers making long rods... those rods should be = more than the same rods that are short in 50 years since most makers = short rods... confusing, ain't it??? I'll pose this question... = (pure speculation on my part, could be even less as I only see 1 = to every 50 fly rods) of HL Leonard's rod production was devoted to = rods... so the baitcasting rods by the masters I'd consider very rare... = they often go for a fraction of price of a short Leonard. But that's = baitcasting rods... So I'd think in a few years the Lure Guys might = looking for the rods that were used with their baits... How about a J.G. Landman = rod... how's that for rare... what's that one worth??? Then there's the = baitcasting rods... those must have been the tools most bait guys = I've gotten several of them and they've been fished hard... while not so = check (foregrip) NS hardware, agate line guides, yet many of these in = condition are found for under $100... Even in excellent condition they = thereof... I suppose the other factor = to fishers is the utility... the angling collector wants to be able to = rod (but probably won't)... It's like bell bottoms, wide = ties... the trends come and go... sometime in the future, perhaps, = rods and spey rods will be the hot item... MAYBE... Wish I could still fit into = bottomed Levi's... Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com ----- Original Message ----- Ray =Gould = Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999= AMSubject: Short rod value Hi to all,The recent postings regarding the use= rods 6, 6 1/2, 7 ft have sparked a question. What is your opinion as = exactly why it is that the "short" rods bring so much more money than = longer ones especially for the collector who buys a rod made by one of = masters. Is it simply a matter of supply and demand? Were they any = difficult to build? Do they satisfy a particular whim of the weathy? = related question would be this: Do you charge more when you sell a = short rod than a longer one and how do you decide what to charge for a = compared to an 8 1/2 ft rod?Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BF326E.F89B9380-- from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Nov 19 11:38:50 1999 Subject: Re: Short rod value I don't charge more or less due to length of a rod,I do charge more for nmber of pieces. The extraferrules and extra work to make a 3 or 4 piece rodsis what I charge extra for. The 5 ft. one piece Imake is cheapest of all - no ferrule and no extratip.Darryl Hi to all,The recent postings regarding the use of short rods 6, 6 1/2, 7 ft havesparked aquestion. What is your opinion as to exactly why it is that the "short" rodsbring somuch more money than the longer ones especially for the collector whobuys a rod made byone of the old masters. Is it simply a matter of supply and demand? Werethey any moredifficult to build? Do they satisfy a particular whim of the weathy? And arelatedquestion would be this: Do you charge more when you sell a customer ashort rod than alonger one and how do you decide what to charge for a 6ft rod compared toan 8 1/2 ftrod?Ray from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Fri Nov 19 12:02:10 1999 0500 Subject: tarpon taper I recently reconnected with an old friend who lives in Florida (a place Ihave heretofor never had any desire to visit), and he tells me I must comedown and fish for tarpon on the fly. I have a feeling that if I do, I'mgoing to need something mroe substantial than my Sir D or even the Para15I'm working on. Can anybody steer me to an appropriate taper? from rmoon@ida.net Fri Nov 19 12:37:35 1999 0000 Subject: Re: Short rod value I have seen no mention of what i consider one of the primary advantagesof long slow rods of the pre-plastic era, Many fly fishers (read thatas one who has a fly rod in his hand) did not use flies for theirfishing. When I was a youngster I probably fished as much with aColorado Spinner as with a fly. Sometimes I had both on my line. Andmany is the time I used worms, grubs, night crawlers and grasshoppers as my primary lure. In order to cast any or all of the above one needed avery wide bow and a slow smooth casting stroke. If you hammered the rod that was casting a Colorado Spinner with the sharp jerky casting ofgraphite, you would probably have the spinner in your ear. No soft bait would stay on with that kind of stroke.I don't mean to imply that there were no anglers using flies: there were lots who preferred faster and stiffer rods with a single fly on a cast,but I still think that most fly fishers of the 20's,30's and 40's usedthe longer slower rods because they were not bound by hypocriticalpurism.Ralph from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Nov 19 14:50:50 1999 Subject: Re: acceptable measurements If you set your forms accurately and double check and plane to the top oftheforms, there is not much more you can do. I never bothered to mic thecane, itis too difficult to measure.After the glue has set and you have sanded the blanks and you really feeltheneed to mic then go ahead. If there is a difference in the measurementover 3flats there is not much you can do. It is hit and miss at the best hopingthatall the splines will meet in the middle, especially in the butt section. Youwill still have the volume of cane intended, but not quite arranged asintended.If you planed accurately and have a blank with no visible glue line, thenyouhave done the business.Terry Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote: Hello All,I am just wondering what the average variations are from flat to flatand from 5" station settings on the forms. My measurements all seem tobewithin the .005 range +/- , is this O. K, and what can I do to make itbetter. I would like to here all of your opinions on this. Terry A. are youout there for this one? Always good to here your opinion! from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Nov 19 14:52:46 1999 Subject: Re: Short rod value As I have come to expect, Ralph has pretty much hit it on the head onceagain. Good point! At 11:32 AM 11/19/1999 -0700, Ralph W Moon wrote:I have seen no mention of what i consider one of the primary advantagesof long slow rods of the pre-plastic era, Many fly fishers (read thatas one who has a fly rod in his hand) did not use flies for theirfishing. When I was a youngster I probably fished as much with aColorado Spinner as with a fly. Sometimes I had both on my line. Andmany is the time I used worms, grubs, night crawlers and grasshoppersas my primary lure. In order to cast any or all of the above one needed avery wide bow and a slow smooth casting stroke. If you hammered therod that was casting a Colorado Spinner with the sharp jerky casting ofgraphite, you would probably have the spinner in your ear. No soft bait would stay on with that kind of stroke.I don't mean to imply that there were no anglers using flies: there were lots who preferred faster and stiffer rods with a single fly on a cast,but I still think that most fly fishers of the 20's,30's and 40's usedthe longer slower rods because they were not bound by hypocriticalpurism.Ralph from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Nov 19 15:09:03 1999 Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper With Stetzer's search engine, the list is pretty much redundant. You cantypein whatever information you require on rodmaking and there it is!Unless someone comes up with a ground breaking technique or idea, it isrepeattime or we drift off from time to time. hsilver@pyx.net wrote: Can we return to bamboo rod building postings yet ? Harley SilverEmail for some is a replacement for a CB radio. On Fri, 19 Nov 1999, ANDREW J INGRAM wrote: JUST THE JAPPANESE? WHAT ABOUT GILL NETS BY COMMERCIALFISHERMEN IN THEU.S.. IT'S EASY TO BLAME PEOPLE YOU DON'T KNOW. THIS IS NOT THEFORUM. [You're correct, its not...SNIP] from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Nov 19 15:21:51 1999 Subject: Re: Short rod value... baitcasting rods, spey rods 1BFB8854263418C4963A34FC" --------------1BFB8854263418C4963A34FC Actually, they did use milling machines and bevellers back in the late1800's. It is Today's rodmakers that have reduced what once was anindustrial process into a hobby that is akin to home brewing.terry Darrell Lee wrote: Ray, I think that's a great question... IMHO, the short rods werenot made as often as the long rods back in the golden era. But as mostof the rod makers must know, it is probably cheaper and easier to makea short two piece rod vs a long 3 piece rod... The most expensive rods50 years ago were the big spey rods and I'd bet that those areprobably far more scarce than the 7.5' trout rods by the same maker...because they were very specialized, probably made to order, veryexpensive and that's probably why the experts say the spey rods areway undervalued at this time... How about those antique rods? Made inthe 1800's??? Long or short, they were made by hand, no bevelers ormills... why aren't those going for big $$$... If scarcity andcollectibility is the goal... then modern rod makers making longrods... those rods should be worth more than the same rods that areshort in 50 years since most makers today make short rods...confusing, ain't it??? I'll pose this question... maybe 5-10% (purespeculation on my part, could be even less as I only see 1 baitcastingrod to every 50 fly rods) of HL Leonard's rod production was devotedto baitcasting rods... so the baitcasting rods by the masters I'dconsider very rare... yet they often go for a fraction of price of ashort Leonard. But that's okay by me for now as I like to buy them...Another factor is the Lure craze... those collectors of old lures...guess what kind of rod was used... yep, the baitcasting rods... So I'dthink in a few years the Lure Guys might start looking for the rodsthat were used with their baits... How about a J.G. Landmanbaitcasting rod... how's that for rare... what's that one worth???Then there's the Heddon baitcasting rods... those must have been thetools most bait guys used... I've gotten several of them and they'vebeen fished hard... while not so scarce, the quality of workmanship isstriking... 1/8" cork rings, walnut winding check (foregrip) NShardware, agate line guides, yet many of these in good condition arefound for under $100... Even in excellent condition they don't oftensell for over $200... I guess it's a matter of demand... or lackthereof... I suppose the other factor somewhat unique to fishers isthe utility... the angling collector wants to be able to fish the rod(but probably won't)... It's like bell bottoms, wide lapels, ties...the trends come and go... sometime in the future, perhaps, baitcastingrods and spey rods will be the hot item... MAYBE... Wish I could stillfit into my old bell bottomed Levi's... DarrellLeewww.bamboorods.homepage.com ----- Original Message -----From: Ray Gould Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 7:27 AMSubject: Short rod valueHi to all,The recent postings regarding the use of shortrods 6, 6 1/2, 7 ft have sparked a question. What is youropinion as to exactly why it is that the "short" rods bringso much more money than the longer ones especially for thecollector who buys a rod made by one of the old masters. Isit simply a matter of supply and demand? Were they any moredifficult to build? Do they satisfy a particular whim of theweathy? And a related question would be this: Do you chargemore when you sell a customer a short rod than a longer oneand how do you decide what to charge for a 6ft rod comparedto an 8 1/2 ft rod?Ray --------------1BFB8854263418C4963A34FC Actually, they did use milling machines and bevellers back in the late1800's. It is Today's rodmakers that have reduced what once was anindustrialprocess into a hobby that is akin to home brewing.terry Darrell Lee wrote: think that's a great question... IMHO, the short rods were not made asoften as the long rods back in the golden era. But as most of the rodmakersmust know, it is probably cheaper and easier to make a short two piecerod vs a long 3 piece rod... The most expensive rods 50 years ago werethe big spey rods and I'd bet that those are probably far more scarce thanthe 7.5' trout rods by the same maker... because they were veryspecialized,probably made to order, very expensive and that's probably why theexpertssay the spey rods are way undervalued at this about those antique rods? Made in the 1800's??? Long or short, they weremade by hand, no bevelers or mills... why aren't those going for big scarcity and collectibility is the goal... then modern rod makers makinglong rods... those rods should be worth more than the same rods that areshort in 50 years since most makers today make short rods... confusing, pose this question... maybe 5-10% (pure speculation on my part, could beeven less as I only see 1 baitcasting rod to every 50 fly rods) of HLLeonard'srod production was devoted to baitcasting rods... so the baitcasting rods of price of a short Leonard. But that's okay by me for now as I like tobuy them... Another factor is the Lure craze... those collectors of oldlures... guess what kind of rod was used... yep, the baitcasting rods...So I'd think in a few years the Lure Guys might start looking for the rods about a J.G. Landman baitcasting rod... how's that for rare... what's thatone worth??? Then there's the Heddon baitcasting rods... those must have and they've been fished hard... while not so scarce, the quality ofworkmanshipis striking... 1/8" cork rings, walnut winding check (foregrip) NS hardware,agate line guides, yet many of these in good condition are found for under$100... Even in excellent condition they don't often sell for over $200...I guess it's a matter of demand... or lack suppose the other factor somewhat unique to fishers is the utility... theangling collector wants to be able to fish the rod (but probably like bell bottoms, wide lapels, ties... the trends come and go... sometimein the future, perhaps, baitcasting rods and spey rods will be the hot I could still fit into my old bell bottomed Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com ----- Original Message ----- From:RayGould Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 7:27AM Subject: Short rod value recent postings regarding the use of short rods 6, 6 1/2, 7 ft have sparkeda question. What is your opinion as to exactly why it is that the "short"rods bring so much more money than the longer ones especially for thecollectorwho buys a rod made by one of the old masters. Is it simply a matter ofsupply and demand? Were they any more difficult to build? Do they satisfya particular whim of the weathy? And a related question would be this:Do you charge more when you sell a customer a short rod than a longer oneand how do you decide what to charge for a 6ft rod compared to an 8 1/2ft rod?Ray --------------1BFB8854263418C4963A34FC-- from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Nov 19 15:37:50 1999 Subject: Effect on Action of 2 vs 3 Pieces Fellow Listoids: I have a question that perhaps betrays my rookie status in bamboorodmaking.What has been your experience regarding the effect on a rod's action of3-piece vs 2-piece construction, given the same taper? The question came up for me because I've made 2 rods from differenttapers,one in 2 pieces and the other in 3. I'd like to be able to make a 2 pieceversion of the 3 piece rod, and 3 piece versions of the 2 piece rod, withoutgreatly changing their actions. Of course I realize that nickel silver doesnot flex like bamboo, but when I look at these particular tapers (graphingthe flat-to-flat measurement at 5 inch intervals) it seems to me theferrules in both versions would fall in places where greater stiffness isneeded anyway. One of these rods is similar to the Cattanach 7'6" 4wt3- piece (a "hinge" in the top third but a straight taper from there down)and the other is more like a Granger taper, with two pronounced hinges,onein the top third and the other in the bottom third. In addition, I graphedsome of the Cattanach tapers for 2 and 3 piece rods of the same length andweight, and they look virtually the same. All of this suggests that for atleast some tapers, three piece and two piece versions should feel aboutthesame. What do you think? Thanks in advance. This board has been a tremendous help to me, and italsoseems to be populated with a diverse group of interesting people whotolerate the occasional flame with great common sense. Barry Kling from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Nov 19 16:05:38 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 19 Nov 1999 15:57:59 -0600 Subject: Re: rod sales question boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01BF32A7.E86ABDE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BF32A7.E86ABDE0 In Texas, we only charge for in state sales, and any supplies you buy =are tax exempt, since the tax is charged for the end product. GMA Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 10:07 AMSubject: rod sales question I hope to sell a couple of rods in 2000. How do listmembers handle =sales taxcollection for out of state sales? Do you have to charge tax to a =broker orjust to a retail customer? I think I understand the federal excise taxprocedures, but the state tax is my concern. Thanks. Randy Brewerbrewer@teleport.com ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BF32A7.E86ABDE0 In Texas, we only charge for in state sales,= product. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Brewer Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999= AMSubject: rod sales =questionI hope to sell a couple of rods in 2000. How do = handle sales taxcollection for out of state sales? Do you have to = tax to a broker orjust to a retail customer? I think I understand = Thanks.Randy Brewerbrewer@teleport.com ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BF32A7.E86ABDE0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Nov 19 16:14:02 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:06:25 -0600 Subject: Re: tarpon taper boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0035_01BF32A9.15D67020" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BF32A9.15D67020 If the PHY Powerhouse taper is available, it was designed for salt =water, and when I got one, it was called the Lee Cuddy Powerhouse ! It =was touted as being for tarpon. GMA Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 12:04 PMSubject: tarpon taper I recently reconnected with an old friend who lives in Florida (a =place Ihave heretofor never had any desire to visit), and he tells me I must =comedown and fish for tarpon on the fly. I have a feeling that if I do, =I'mgoing to need something mroe substantial than my Sir D or even the =Para 15I'm working on. Can anybody steer me to an appropriate taper? ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BF32A9.15D67020 If the PHY Powerhouse taper is available,it = designed for salt water, and when I got one, it was called the Lee Cuddy = Powerhouse ! It was touted as being for tarpon. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Seth Steinzor = Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999= PMSubject: tarpon taperI recently reconnected with an old friend who lives in = (a place Ihave heretofor never had any desire to visit), and he = if I do, I'mgoing to need something mroe substantial than my Sir D = taper? ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BF32A9.15D67020-- from bob@downandacross.com Fri Nov 19 16:24:15 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: splicing Anyone have opinions (based on actual use) if it is better to plane or sand splices into your nodeless sections? Both techniques are represented onthe Rodmaker's page, and I have tried both. I wonder if one forms a better glue up surface than the other. Any ideas.Thanks,BobBob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from rsgould@cmc.net Fri Nov 19 16:42:56 1999 Subject: Re: Effect on Action of 2 vs 3 Pieces Hi Barry,IMHO a 2 piece rod and a 3 piece rod with exactly the same taper won'tfeelalike simply because of the additional mass and stiffness of the extraferrule and the 3 pc rod will weigh more. The advantage of the 3pc is init's ease of transportation. To get exactly the same action the taper wouldhave to be tweaked a bit to offset the stiffness and weight of theadditional ferrule. Some insight to this matter can be gained by having alook at some F.E. Thomas tapers for 3 pc rods. I tmight be too that thematter is so subjective that it's a bit like jousting at windmills.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Effect on Action of 2 vs 3 Pieces Fellow Listoids: I have a question that perhaps betrays my rookie status in bamboorodmaking.What has been your experience regarding the effect on a rod's action of3-piece vs 2-piece construction, given the same taper? The question came up for me because I've made 2 rods from differenttapers,one in 2 pieces and the other in 3. I'd like to be able to make a 2 pieceversion of the 3 piece rod, and 3 piece versions of the 2 piece rod,withoutgreatly changing their actions. Of course I realize that nickel silverdoesnot flex like bamboo, but when I look at these particular tapers (graphingthe flat-to-flat measurement at 5 inch intervals) it seems to me theferrules in both versions would fall in places where greater stiffness isneeded anyway. One of these rods is similar to the Cattanach 7'6" 4wt3- piece (a "hinge" in the top third but a straight taper from there down)and the other is more like a Granger taper, with two pronounced hinges,onein the top third and the other in the bottom third. In addition, I graphedsome of the Cattanach tapers for 2 and 3 piece rods of the same lengthandweight, and they look virtually the same. All of this suggests that for at least some tapers, three piece and two piece versions should feel aboutthesame. What do you think? Thanks in advance. This board has been a tremendous help to me, and italsoseems to be populated with a diverse group of interesting people whotolerate the occasional flame with great common sense. Barry Kling from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Nov 19 17:33:26 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Short rod value... baitcasting rods, spey rods boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF32A2.7D230100" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF32A2.7D230100 You're right Terry, come to think of it... many of the big productioncompanies such as Chubb, Leonard, Montague did use machine bevelers justbefore the turn of the century... Then there was the makers that made rodssuch as Jim Daniels, a Leonard, Thomas, Payne peer, which was writtenthathe made the rods without the machines with a lifetime production of lessthan a 1000 rods, on his front porch, yet his rods don't seem to bring bigbucks either... hand made, no bevelers, no big marketing programs... I'm now working on restoring an early Montague Manitou circa 1920's thatisa gorgeous rod, quality as good as any. Agate stripper and tip tops,wonderful delicate action, JG Landman hard rubber reel seat, all NShardwareand ferrules with impeccible craftsmanship that cost as much as a PayneorLeonard back when it was built and yet today many price guides list it'svalue about the same as other Monty's that cost 1/10th the price theManitouback then... In this case, I think that it's the general lack of knowledgeon the part of the buyers of collectible rods. I guess it may just boil down to the whims of the buyer with the cash...thebuyers determine the market... ... I guess it may just boil down to thewhims of the buyer with the cash... the buyers determine the market... Darrell-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu ACKLANDSent: Friday, November 19, 1999 1:25 PM Cc: rsgould@cmc.net; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Short rod value... baitcasting rods, spey rods Actually, they did use milling machines and bevellers back in the late1800's. It is Today's rodmakers that have reduced what once was anindustrial process into a hobby that is akin to home brewing.terryDarrell Lee wrote: Ray, I think that's a great question... IMHO, the short rods were notmade as often as the long rods back in the golden era. But as most of therod makers must know, it is probably cheaper and easier to make a shorttwopiece rod vs a long 3 piece rod... The most expensive rods 50 years agowerethe big spey rods and I'd bet that those are probably far more scarce thanthe 7.5' trout rods by the same maker... because they were veryspecialized,probably made to order, very expensive and that's probably why theexpertssay the spey rods are way undervalued at this time... How about thoseantique rods? Made in the 1800's??? Long or short, they were made byhand,no bevelers or mills... why aren't those going for big $$$... If scarcityand collectibility is the goal... then modern rod makers making long rods...those rods should be worth more than the same rods that are short in 50years since most makers today make short rods... confusing, ain't it??? I'llpose this question... maybe 5-10% (pure speculation on my part, could beeven less as I only see 1 baitcasting rod to every 50 fly rods) of HLLeonard's rod production was devoted to baitcasting rods... so thebaitcasting rods by the masters I'd consider very rare... yet they often go I like to buy them... Another factor is the Lure craze... those collectorsof old lures... guess what kind of rod was used... yep, the baitcastingrods... So I'd think in a few years the Lure Guys might start looking forthe rods that were used with their baits... How about a J.G. Landmanbaitcasting rod... how's that for rare... what's that one worth??? Thenthere's the Heddon baitcasting rods... those must have been the tools mostbait guys used... I've gotten several of them and they've been fishedhard... while not so scarce, the quality of workmanship is striking... 1/8"cork rings, walnut winding check (foregrip) NS hardware, agate lineguides,yet many of these in good condition are found for under $100... Even inexcellent condition they don't often sell for over $200... I guess it's amatter of demand... or lack thereof... I suppose the other factor somewhatunique to fishers is the utility... the angling collector wants to be ableto fish the rod (but probably won't)... It's like bell bottoms, wide lapels,ties... the trends come and go... sometime in the future, perhaps,baitcasting rods and spey rods will be the hot item... MAYBE... Wish I couldstill fit into my old bell bottomed Levi's... DarrellLeewww.bamboorods.homepage.com----- Original Message -----From: Ray Gould Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 7:27 AMSubject: Short rod valueHi to all,The recent postings regarding the use of short rods 6, 61/2, 7 ft have sparked a question. What is your opinion as to exactly whyitis that the "short" rods bring so much more money than the longer onesespecially for the collector who buys a rod made by one of the oldmasters.Is it simply a matter of supply and demand? Were they any more difficulttobuild? Do they satisfy a particular whim of the weathy? And a relatedquestion would be this: Do you charge more when you sell a customer ashortrod than a longer one and how do you decide what to charge for a 6ft rodcompared to an 8 1/2 ft rod?Ray ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF32A2.7D230100 right Terry, come to think of it... many of the big production companies = Chubb, Leonard, Montague did use machine bevelers just before the turn = century... Then there was the makers that made rods such as Jim Daniels, = without the machines with a lifetime production of less than a 1000 = front porch, yet his rods don't seem to bring big bucks either... hand = bevelers, no big marketing programs... now working on restoring an early Montague Manitou circa 1920's that is = gorgeous rod, quality as good as any. Agate stripper and tip tops, = delicate action, JG Landman hard rubber reel seat, all NS hardware and = with impeccible craftsmanship that cost as much as a Payne or Leonard = it was built and yet today many price guides list it's value about the = other Monty's that cost 1/10th the price the Manitou back then... In = I think that it's the general lack of knowledge on the part of the = collectible rods. guess it may just boil down to the whims of the buyer with the cash... = buyers determine the market... ... I guess it may just boil down to the = Darrell ACKLANDSent: Friday, November 19, 1999 1:25 = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Short rod baitcasting rods, spey rodsActually, they did use= machines and bevellers back in the late 1800's. It is Today's = have reduced what once was an industrial process into a hobby that is = the short rods were not made as often as the long rods back in the = era. But as most of the rod makers must know, it is probably cheaper = easier to make a short two piece rod vs a long 3 piece rod... The = expensive rods 50 years ago were the big spey rods and I'd bet that = are probably far more scarce than the 7.5' trout rods by the same = because they were very specialized, probably made to order, very = and that's probably why the experts say the spey rods are way = about those antique rods? Made in the 1800's??? Long or short, they = made by hand, no bevelers or mills... why aren't those going for big = scarcity and collectibility is the goal... then modern rod makers = long rods... those rods should be worth more than the same rods that = short in 50 years since most makers today make short rods... = pose this question... maybe 5-10% (pure speculation on my part, = even less as I only see 1 baitcasting rod to every 50 fly rods) of = baitcasting rods by the masters I'd consider very rare... yet they = I like to buy them... Another factor is the Lure craze... those = of old lures... guess what kind of rod was used... yep, the = rods... So I'd think in a few years the Lure Guys might start = rod... how's that for rare... what's that one worth??? Then there's = Heddon baitcasting rods... those must have been the tools most bait = while not so scarce, the quality of workmanship is striking... 1/8" = rings, walnut winding check (foregrip) NS hardware, agate line = excellent condition they don't often sell for over $200... I guess = to fishers is the utility... the angling collector wants to be able = could still fit into my old bell bottomed = ----- Original Message ----- Ray =Gould Sent: Friday, November 19, = AM all,The recent = regarding the use of short rods 6, 6 1/2, 7 ft have sparked a = What is your opinion as to exactly why it is that the "short" rods = so much more money than the longer ones especially for the = buys a rod made by one of the old masters. Is it simply a matter = and demand? Were they any more difficult to build? Do they satisfy = particular whim of the weathy? And a related question would be = you charge more when you sell a customer a short rod than a longer = how do you decide what to charge for a 6ft rod compared to an 8 = ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF32A2.7D230100-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Nov 19 17:34:02 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 19 Nov 1999 17:26:24 -0600 Subject: Re: Short rod value boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF32B4.42761440" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF32B4.42761440 Many rods were used for bass bugging too, and the slower action is a =decided advantage when pushing larger lines, and bulky bugs ! I relate to the spinner-fly combo thing, as I found a black ghost, =behind a single spinner, was deadly on bass, back in the '40's ! GMA Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 2:46 PMSubject: Re: Short rod value As I have come to expect, Ralph has pretty much hit it on the head =onceagain. Good point! At 11:32 AM 11/19/1999 -0700, Ralph W Moon wrote:I have seen no mention of what i consider one of the primary =advantagesof long slow rods of the pre-plastic era, Many fly fishers (read =thatas one who has a fly rod in his hand) did not use flies for theirfishing. When I was a youngster I probably fished as much with aColorado Spinner as with a fly. Sometimes I had both on my line. =Andmany is the time I used worms, grubs, night crawlers and grasshoppers=as my primary lure. In order to cast any or all of the above one needed =avery wide bow and a slow smooth casting stroke. If you hammered the =rod that was casting a Colorado Spinner with the sharp jerky casting ofgraphite, you would probably have the spinner in your ear. No soft =bait would stay on with that kind of stroke.I don't mean to imply that there were no anglers using flies: there =were lots who preferred faster and stiffer rods with a single fly on a =cast, >but I still think that most fly fishers of the 20's,30's and 40's =usedthe longer slower rods because they were not bound by hypocriticalpurism.Ralph ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF32B4.42761440 Many rods were used for bass bugging too, and the slower = a decided advantage when pushing larger lines, and bulky bugs =! I relate to the spinner-fly combo thing, as I found a black = behind a single spinner, was deadly on bass, back in the '40's =! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Snider Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999= PMSubject: Re: Short rod =valueAs I have come to expect, Ralph has pretty much hit it = head onceagain. Good point!At 11:32 AM 11/19/1999 -0700,= = ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF32B4.42761440-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Nov 19 17:59:02 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 19 Nov 1999 17:51:16 -0600 Subject: Re: Short rod value... baitcasting rods, spey rods boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0069_01BF32B7.BB662220" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01BF32B7.BB662220 Good point Darrell. I have what I think is a Daniels, and a couple of =impregnated H-I's. I doubt that they'll bring mush after restoration, =but their basic quality deserves it ! You sure nailed the casting rod scene well ! I have an innate love for =cane, regardless, as long as it's fresh water/light tackle types. =Finding good cane casting rods isn't easy, and it sure isn't very cheap =! Many think that because it's bamboo, they have a $1000 plus valuable ! GMA Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 5:26 PMSubject: RE: Short rod value... baitcasting rods, spey rods You're right Terry, come to think of it... many of the big production =companies such as Chubb, Leonard, Montague did use machine bevelers just=before the turn of the century... Then there was the makers that made =rods such as Jim Daniels, a Leonard, Thomas, Payne peer, which was =written that he made the rods without the machines with a lifetime =production of less than a 1000 rods, on his front porch, yet his rods =don't seem to bring big bucks either... hand made, no bevelers, no big =marketing programs... I'm now working on restoring an early Montague Manitou circa 1920's =that is a gorgeous rod, quality as good as any. Agate stripper and tip =tops, wonderful delicate action, JG Landman hard rubber reel seat, all =NS hardware and ferrules with impeccible craftsmanship that cost asmuch =as a Payne or Leonard back when it was built and yet today many price =guides list it's value about the same as other Monty's that cost 1/10th =the price the Manitou back then... In this case, I think that it's the =general lack of knowledge on the part of the buyers of collectible rods. I guess it may just boil down to the whims of the buyer with the =cash... the buyers determine the market... ... I guess it may just boil =down to the whims of the buyer with the cash... the buyers determine the = Darrell-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = ACKLANDSent: Friday, November 19, 1999 1:25 PM Cc: rsgould@cmc.net; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Short rod value... baitcasting rods, spey rods Actually, they did use milling machines and bevellers back in the =late 1800's. It is Today's rodmakers that have reduced what once was an = Ray, I think that's a great question... IMHO, the short rods =were not made as often as the long rods back in the golden era. But as =most of the rod makers must know, it is probably cheaper and easier to =make a short two piece rod vs a long 3 piece rod... The most expensive =rods 50 years ago were the big spey rods and I'd bet that those are =probably far more scarce than the 7.5' trout rods by the same maker... =because they were very specialized, probably made to order, very =expensive and that's probably why the experts say the spey rods are way =undervalued at this time... How about those antique rods? Made in the =1800's??? Long or short, they were made by hand, no bevelers or mills... =why aren't those going for big $$$... If scarcity and collectibility is =the goal... then modern rod makers making long rods... those rods should =be worth more than the same rods that are short in 50 years since most =makers today make short rods... confusing, ain't it??? I'll pose this =question... maybe 5-10% (pure speculation on my part, could be even less =as I only see 1 baitcasting rod to every 50 fly rods) of HL Leonard's =rod production was devoted to baitcasting rods... so the baitcasting =rods by the masters I'd consider very rare... yet they often go for a =fraction of price of a short Leonard. But that's okay by me for now as I =like to buy them... Another factor is the Lure craze... those collectors =of old lures... guess what kind of rod was used... yep, the baitcasting =rods... So I'd think in a few years the Lure Guys might start looking = baitcasting rod... how's that for rare... what's that one worth??? Then =there's the Heddon baitcasting rods... those must have been the tools =most bait guys used... I've gotten several of them and they've been =fished hard... while not so scarce, the quality of workmanship is =striking... 1/8" cork rings, walnut winding check (foregrip) NS =hardware, agate line guides, yet many of these in good condition are =found for under $100... Even in excellent condition they don't often =sell for over $200... I guess it's a matter of demand... or lack =thereof... I suppose the other factor somewhat unique to fishers is the =utility... the angling collector wants to be able to fish the rod (but =probably won't)... It's like bell bottoms, wide lapels, ties... the =trends come and go... sometime in the future, perhaps, baitcasting rods =and spey rods will be the hot item... MAYBE... Wish I could still fit =into my old bell bottomed Levi's... Darrell = ----- Original Message -----From: Ray Gould Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 7:27 AMSubject: Short rod valueHi to all,The recent postings regarding the use of short rods =6, 6 1/2, 7 ft have sparked a question. What is your opinion as to =exactly why it is that the "short" rods bring so much more money than =the longer ones especially for the collector who buys a rod made by one =of the old masters. Is it simply a matter of supply and demand? Were =they any more difficult to build? Do they satisfy a particular whim of =the weathy? And a related question would be this: Do you charge more =when you sell a customer a short rod than a longer one and how do you =decide what to charge for a 6ft rod compared to an 8 1/2 ft rod?Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01BF32B7.BB662220 Good point Darrell. I have what I think is a= and a couple of impregnated H-I's. I doubt that they'll bring mush after = restoration, but their basic quality deserves it ! You sure nailed the casting rod scene well ! I have an = good cane casting rods isn't easy, and it sure isn't very cheap =! Many think that because it's bamboo, they have a $1000plus = valuable ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Darrell A. Lee Cc: rsgould@cmc.net ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999= PMSubject: RE: Short rod value... = baitcasting rods, spey rods You're right Terry, come to think of it... = the big production companies such as Chubb, Leonard, Montague did use = bevelers just before the turn of the century... Then there was the = production of less than a 1000 rods, on his front porch, yet his rods = seem to bring big bucks either... hand made, no bevelers, no big = programs... now working on restoring an early Montague Manitou circa 1920's that = gorgeous rod, quality as good as any. Agate stripper and tip tops, = delicate action, JG Landman hard rubber reel seat, all NS hardware and = ferrules with impeccible craftsmanship that cost as much as a Payne or= back when it was built and yet today many price guides list it's value = the same as other Monty's that cost 1/10th the price the Manitou back = In this case, I think that it's the general lack of knowledge on the = the buyers of collectible rods. guess it may just boil down to the whims of the buyer with the cash... = buyers determine the market... ... I guess it may just boil down to = Darrell TERENCE = ACKLANDSent: Friday, November 19, 1999 1:25 = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Short rod value... = baitcasting rods, spey rodsActually, they did = milling machines and bevellers back in the late 1800's. It is = rodmakers that have reduced what once was an industrial process into = the short rods were not made as often as the long rods back in the = era. But as most of the rod makers must know, it is probably = easier to make a short two piece rod vs a long 3 piece rod... The = expensive rods 50 years ago were the big spey rods and I'd bet = are probably far more scarce than the 7.5' trout rods by the same = because they were very specialized, probably made to order, very = and that's probably why the experts say the spey rods are way = = they were made by hand, no bevelers or mills... why aren't those = scarcity and collectibility is the goal... then modern rod makers = long rods... those rods should be worth more than the same rods = short in 50 years since most makers today make short rods... = part, could be even less as I only see 1 baitcasting rod to every = rods) of HL Leonard's rod production was devoted to baitcasting = the baitcasting rods by the masters I'd consider very rare... yet = often go for a fraction of price of a short Leonard. But that's = collectors of old lures... guess what kind of rod was used... yep, = baitcasting rods... So I'd think in a few years the Lure Guys = about a J.G. Landman baitcasting rod... how's that for rare... = one worth??? Then there's the Heddon baitcasting rods... those = and they've been fished hard... while not so scarce, the quality = (foregrip) NS hardware, agate line guides, yet many of these in = condition are found for under $100... Even in excellent condition = don't often sell for over $200... I guess it's a matter of = utility... the angling collector wants to be able to fish the rod = go... sometime in the future, perhaps, baitcasting rods and spey = ----- Original Message =----- Gould Sent: Friday, November = 7:27 AM all,The recent= regarding the use of short rods 6, 6 1/2, 7 ft have sparked a = What is your opinion as to exactly why it is that the "short" = so much more money than the longer ones especially for the = buys a rod made by one of the old masters. Is it simply a matter = supply and demand? Were they any more difficult to build? Do = satisfy a particular whim of the weathy? And a related question = this: Do you charge more when you sell a customer a short rod = longer one and how do you decide what to charge for a 6ft rod = ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01BF32B7.BB662220-- from channer@outerbounds.net Fri Nov 19 18:08:25 1999 bytaz.outerbounds.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.2) with SMTP idfor;Fri, 19 Nov 1999 17:09:02 -0700 Subject: Re: Short rod value At 07:27 AM 11/19/1999 -0800, Ray Gould wrote:Hi to all, The recent postings regarding the use of short rods 6, 61/2, 7 ft have sparked a question. What is your opinion as to exactly why it is that the "short" rods bring so much more money than the longer ones especially for the collector who buys a rod made by one of the oldmasters.Is it simply a matter of supply and demand? Were they any moredifficultto build? Do they satisfy a particular whim of the weathy? And a relatedquestion would be this: Do you charge more when you sell a customer ashort rod than a longer one and how do you decide what to charge for a6ftrod compared to an 8 1/2 ft rod? Ray Whatsamatterwityou guys? nobody but me read Gierach? He discusses thisinFishing Bamboo, it seem that the standard fly rod has always been 9'long(at least for most of the bamboo era) and shorter rods were simplynotmade in the quantities that 9' rods were, the fewer the numbers, thehigherthe value. go to a fly shop and see how many 7' graphite rods they have inthe racks compared to how many 9' rods they have.John from FlyfishT@aol.com Fri Nov 19 18:17:04 1999 Subject: payne guidespace Hello. I'm just finishing up a Payne 200 4 weight. I'd like to make it as original as possible. Does anyone have guide spacing for this rod? I made it in two piece construction. Thanks in advance. Tom from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Nov 19 18:32:04 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AD30B7830142; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 19:37:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Short rod value Ralph,Long, slow (wet-fly action) rods have many applications. Great forhauling a sinking line into the air, casting without false-casting, mendingline, etc.Long rods in general are much maligned. Short rods require more armmovement (and you can't tell me a 10' fly rod weighs more than your arm),generate a higher line speed making accuracy and delicacy more difficult...the list goes on. Best regards,Reed Ralph W Moon wrote: I have seen no mention of what i consider one of the primary advantagesof long slow rods of the pre-plastic era, Many fly fishers (read thatas one who has a fly rod in his hand) did not use flies for theirfishing. When I was a youngster I probably fished as much with aColorado Spinner as with a fly. Sometimes I had both on my line. from bob@downandacross.com Fri Nov 19 18:34:12 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: short rods This talk of long rods used for bait and spinners and such reminds me of Hemingway's protagonist Nick Adams venturing off with a coffee can fullof hoppers. (I think I got that straight)Bait chucking is definitely a good use for long rods. I have a Shakespeare 9 footer that I made into a 6 footer (after a cracked ferrule) and it still is a cannon. As a nine footer it was a real broomstick. No loop control at all, but great for big bushy flies or lead. As a 6 footer it is better, but I may experiment with the idea presented last month about changingtapers through careful sanding/scraping.Bob Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com productionswebsite, audio, and print designhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbob@downandacross.com from dan_cooney@attglobal.net Fri Nov 19 21:39:06 1999 SMTP +0000 Subject: Taper for Payne 98 Al Medved brought a nodeless Payne 98 that he had built to the SouthernRodmakers Gathering last month. I really liked the way the rod handledand would like to build one. Unfortunately, I left without getting thetaper. Can anyone help me out with the taper? TIA. Regards,Dan from saweiss@flash.net Fri Nov 19 22:03:43 1999 Subject: Re: payne guidespace from the archives:Subject: Re: Payne guide spacingThe following guide spacing is from a Payne 200L (8',3-piece,4wt).Measurements are with the rod assembled.tip top = 0"#1 = 5"#2 = 10 1/4"#3 = 15 5/8"#4 = 21 1/8"#5 = 26 5/8"ferrule#6 = 34 3/16" Guide foot touches the ferrule tabs with a single brownwrap covering both.#7 = 40 3/8"#8 = 47 3/4#9 = 56 7/8"ferrule#10 = 66 3/8" Guide foot touches ferrule tabs, same single wrap.#11 = 74 1/2 agate stripperSteve Hello. I'm just finishing up a Payne 200 4 weight. I'd like to make it asoriginalas possible. Does anyone have guide spacing for this rod? I made it intwopiece construction. Thanks in advance. Tom from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat Nov 20 00:04:26 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id SAA29807; Sat, 20 Nov 1999 18:04:41 +1300 Subject: Re: payne guidespace Steve, Your response raises a question that has been discussed here before ..and Ithought i knew the answer. The question is how far from the butt shouldthestriper be ? My recollection is that the most common view seemed to be around 25- 26".Foryour payne measurements it is 21 1/2 ". Is my recollection incorrect , oristhere some difference for some types of rods. There is a purpose behind this question. I have just finished a 8' , payne102 , it looks very nice ( from my point of view) and casts nicely.I havejust realised that the stripper is 22" from the butt based on some paynemeasurements I used with the taper.I thought I had made a mistake inmeasuring. I was sort of considering redoing the butt and repositioningtheguides thinking that I had got it wrong. It casts ok and feels ok to me but I was going to give it to a friend sothought I should get it right. So once again can we discuss a subject that was discussed a year or soago ,and please lead me to the conclusion that my rod is fine as it is. regards Ian Kearney At 09:04 PM 19/11/99 -0700, Steven Weiss wrote: from the archives:Subject: Re: Payne guide spacingThe following guide spacing is from a Payne 200L (8',3-piece,4wt).Measurements are with the rod assembled.tip top = 0"#1 = 5"#2 = 10 1/4"#3 = 15 5/8"#4 = 21 1/8"#5 = 26 5/8"ferrule#6 = 34 3/16" Guide foot touches the ferrule tabs with a singlebrownwrap covering both.#7 = 40 3/8"#8 = 47 3/4#9 = 56 7/8"ferrule#10 = 66 3/8" Guide foot touches ferrule tabs, same single wrap.#11 = 74 1/2 agate stripperSteve Hello. I'm just finishing up a Payne 200 4 weight. I'd like to make it asoriginalas possible. Does anyone have guide spacing for this rod? I made it intwopiece construction. Thanks in advance. Tom from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Nov 20 10:09:52 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A8FE84C6005A; Sat, 20 Nov 1999 11:14:54 -0500 Subject: Re: payne guidespace Ian,Just some theories to float:-- If the new owner has long arms and likes to double-haulaggressively,move the stripper out.-- If the action of a rod comes down into the grip, keep the stripperclose to the grip to smooth the action in casting and playing a fish.-- If you use a stripping basket, move the stripper out to reduce theshoot angle (and also #1),and then there is the aesthetics... Best regards,Reed Ian Kearney wrote: Steve, Your response raises a question that has been discussed here before ..andIthought i knew the answer. The question is how far from the butt shouldthestriper be ? My recollection is that the most common view seemed to be around 25- 26".Foryour payne measurements it is 21 1/2 ". Is my recollection incorrect , oristhere some difference for some types of rods. There is a purpose behind this question. I have just finished a 8' , payne102 , it looks very nice ( from my point of view) and casts nicely.I havejust realised that the stripper is 22" from the butt based on some paynemeasurements I used with the taper.I thought I had made a mistake inmeasuring. I was sort of considering redoing the butt and repositioningtheguides thinking that I had got it wrong. It casts ok and feels ok to me but I was going to give it to a friend sothought I should get it right. So once again can we discuss a subject that was discussed a year or soago ,and please lead me to the conclusion that my rod is fine as it is. regards Ian Kearney from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat Nov 20 13:17:02 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id HAA17904; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 07:17:05 +1300 Subject: Re: payne guidespace Thank you for thatadvise Reed. As this rod is for fishing smaller streamsdouble hauling is not necessary , and there is no need to use a strippingbasket, and the action comes well down the rod , I clearly do not have tostrip the rod and shift the guides. Ian At 11:08 AM 20/11/99 -0500, Reed Curry wrote:Ian,Just some theories to float:-- If the new owner has long arms and likes to double- haulaggressively,move the stripper out.-- If the action of a rod comes down into the grip, keep the stripperclose to the grip to smooth the action in casting and playing a fish.-- If you use a stripping basket, move the stripper out to reduce theshoot angle (and also #1),and then there is the aesthetics... Best regards,Reed Ian Kearney wrote: from hartzell@easystreet.com Sat Nov 20 14:21:37 1999 MAA11191; Subject: Re: splicing Bob: I think it depends on the glue. Epoxy would do better with a sandedsurface. Other glues require a careful fit (ie rescorcinal) and wouldprobablybe better with the planed surface. I have had no trouble with planing,however, and then using a slow setting epoxy like Nyatex.Ed Hartzell bob maulucci wrote: Anyone have opinions (based on actual use) if it is better to plane orsandsplices into your nodeless sections? Both techniques are represented ontheRodmaker's page, and I have tried both. I wonder if one forms a betterglueup surface than the other. Any ideas.Thanks,BobBob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Nov 20 14:40:17 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 20 Nov 1999 14:32:28 -0600 Subject: Re: splicing boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002A_01BF3365.21BE5B20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BF3365.21BE5B20 Thinking about many years of working with wood, it's very difficult to =keep the gluing surface flat, when sanding. It's a trained thing, to =learn to keep a sanding block in the correct plane, and not round an =edge. Considering the form to help with this, a slightly rough sanded =surface, would make a better glue joint. I'd be most interested to know, what grit, those who sand use ! GMA Sent: Saturday, November 20, 1999 2:22 AMSubject: Re: splicing Bob: I think it depends on the glue. Epoxy would do better with a =sandedsurface. Other glues require a careful fit (ie rescorcinal) and would =probablybe better with the planed surface. I have had no trouble with =planing,however, and then using a slow setting epoxy like Nyatex.Ed Hartzell bob maulucci wrote: Anyone have opinions (based on actual use) if it is better to plane =or sandsplices into your nodeless sections? Both techniques are represented =on theRodmaker's page, and I have tried both. I wonder if one forms a =better glueup surface than the other. Any ideas.Thanks,BobBob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BF3365.21BE5B20 Thinking about many years of working with= very difficult to keep the gluing surface flat, when sanding. It's a = thing, to learn to keep a sanding block in the correct plane, and not = edge. Considering the form to help with this, a slightly rough sanded = would make a better glue joint. I'd be most interested to know, what grit, those who sand = ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Hartzell Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Saturday, November 20, = AMSubject: Re: splicing better with a sandedsurface. Other glues require a careful fit (ie = rescorcinal) and would probablybe better with the planed = have had no trouble with planing,however, and then using a slow = epoxy like Nyatex.Ed Hartzellbob maulucci = Anyone have opinions (based on actual use) if it is better to plane or = ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BF3365.21BE5B20-- from bob@downandacross.com Sat Nov 20 17:49:36 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: short rods HI John,Well, the ferrule between the mid and butt section was cracked. It was of the cheap chrome plated brass variety (I think). So I just added a reel seat and handle there. If you are going to build a "Banty" rod from an existing nine or 10 footer, I would recommend the technique that Michael Sinclair mentions in his great resource "The Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook." He suggests making a handle with a female ferrule of the same size as the mid section butt male ferrule. Then you don't have to ruin the rod to make a shorty out of it. Just make a handle out of bamboo sections long enough to mount grip, ferrule, and reel seat. Take handle, mid, and tip and fish away!I would have tried this if the ferrule was not already ruined. Let me know if I can help further.Good luck,Bob At 04:26 PM 11/20/99 -0700, you wrote:Bob,I would love to know how you shortened the 9 footer, where didyoutrim?? I have several older rods that I have been thinking about turningintowhat we call "Brookie Rods" here in the rocky mountains. Basicly just a 51/2to 7 foot lighter rod for getting into willow lined streams that areteamingwith wild brookies.Thanks ,John Hewitt bob maulucci wrote: This talk of long rods used for bait and spinners and such reminds meofHemingway's protagonist Nick Adams venturing off with a coffee canfull ofhoppers. (I think I got that straight)Bait chucking is definitely a good use for long rods. I have aShakespeare9 footer that I made into a 6 footer (after a cracked ferrule) and itstillis a cannon. As a nine footer it was a real broomstick. No loop controlatall, but great for big bushy flies or lead. As a 6 footer it is better, butI may experiment with the idea presented last month about changingtapersthrough careful sanding/scraping.Bob Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com productionswebsite, audio, and print designhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbob@downandacross.com Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from anglport@con2.com Sat Nov 20 19:05:23 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A4F119E1024A; Sat, 20 Nov 1999 20:03:45 -0500 iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Subject: Re: payne guidespace Ian,Sometimes we really DO get to hear what we want, huh? *G*Art At 07:17 AM 11/21/1999 +1300, Ian Kearney wrote:Thank you for thatadvise Reed. As this rod is for fishing smaller streamsdouble hauling is not necessary , and there is no need to use a strippingbasket, and the action comes well down the rod , I clearly do not have tostrip the rod and shift the guides. Ian At 11:08 AM 20/11/99 -0500, Reed Curry wrote:Ian,Just some theories to float:-- If the new owner has long arms and likes to double- haulaggressively,move the stripper out.-- If the action of a rod comes down into the grip, keep thestripperclose to the grip to smooth the action in casting and playing a fish.-- If you use a stripping basket, move the stripper out to reducetheshoot angle (and also #1),and then there is the aesthetics... Best regards,Reed Ian Kearney wrote: *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun, but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Nov 20 19:30:16 1999 Subject: Re: splicing Ed,are you the Edwin Hartzell that wears rumpled Cheviot herringbones anddrives abeautifully restored MG roadster?Terry Ed Hartzell wrote: Bob: I think it depends on the glue. Epoxy would do better with a sandedsurface. Other glues require a careful fit (ie rescorcinal) and wouldprobablybe better with the planed surface. I have had no trouble with planing,however, and then using a slow setting epoxy like Nyatex.Ed Hartzell bob maulucci wrote: Anyone have opinions (based on actual use) if it is better to plane orsandsplices into your nodeless sections? Both techniques are representedon theRodmaker's page, and I have tried both. I wonder if one forms a betterglueup surface than the other. Any ideas.Thanks,BobBob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from briansr@point-net.com Sat Nov 20 20:41:03 1999 0000 Subject: Tom Whittle Is Tom Whittle still on the list if no,anyone have his e-mail addressTIA Brian from briansr@point-net.com Sat Nov 20 20:53:39 1999 0000 Subject: disregard Sorry folks disregard my previous request .Found Tom's address.Wesometimesforget that old " Primary Research" button in our brain and resort to the2ndary button on our PC.While I'm here as an adendum the Wrapping Thread.Inever had problems with bleed under wraps until I started to use thewaterbased products.Since I returned to the trusty thinned out Butirate(sic?)dope, bleeding has all but disappeared.Cheers Brian from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Nov 20 21:08:40 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 20 Nov 1999 21:08:48 -0600 Subject: Re: disregard boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0084_01BF339B.6AE36C60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01BF339B.6AE36C60 That's interesting ! Since butyrates can take up to 120 days to gas off, =it could be they penetrate better, to seal the fibers of the wraps. GMA Sent: Saturday, November 20, 1999 8:53 PMSubject: disregard Sorry folks disregard my previous request .Found Tom's address.We =sometimesforget that old " Primary Research" button in our brain and resort to =the2ndary button on our PC.While I'm here as an adendum the Wrapping =Thread. Inever had problems with bleed under wraps until I started to use the =waterbased products.Since I returned to the trusty thinned out =Butirate(sic?)dope, bleeding has all but disappeared.Cheers Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01BF339B.6AE36C60 That's interesting ! Since butyrates can = 120 days to gas off, it could be they penetrate better, to seal the = the wraps. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Sturrock = Sent: Saturday, November 20, = PMSubject: disregardSorry folks disregard my previous request .Found address.We sometimesforget that old " Primary Research" button in = brain and resort to the2ndary button on our PC.While I'm here as = adendum the Wrapping Thread. Inever had problems with bleed under= until I started to use the waterbased products.Since I returned to = Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01BF339B.6AE36C60-- from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sat Nov 20 21:49:04 1999 Subject: Re: acceptable measurements Ray and All,Thanks for everyone's input, I guess I'm not doing to badly. This is my fifth rod and all but my first turned out very well. I'll let everyone know how #5 goes Thanks againJoe from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sun Nov 21 03:11:50 1999 Subject: Fw: Make your children this, boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01BF33D8.25D790A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BF33D8.25D790A0 Guys,This was sent to me by a buddy, and I thought I would forward it to the =list. I hope you don't mind. Mike-----Original Message----- ; Roger Freeman ; Michael =Shaffer ; Larry Hamby; =Lamar Uptagrafft ; Kristi Cobb ; Ken=Conaway ; Joe Cates ; Jim & =Joyce Arnett ; Fred Uptagrafft =; Dexter Sapp ; Dewey =Grubb ; Brian Wages ; Bobby=Duncan Subject: Make your children this, I am making my young people (Brad and Rebecca) memorize this list from =Bill Gates' book EXCELLENT FOR ALL PARENTS and GRANDPARENTS!! :)Bill Gates' Book not learn in school. In his book, Bill Gates talks about how feel-good, =politically-correct teachings created a full generation of kids with no =concept of reality and how this concept set them up for failure in the =real world. RULE 1 Life is not fair; get used to it. RULE 2. The world won't care about your self-esteem. The world will =expect you to accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself. RULE 3 You will NOT make 40 thousand dollars a year right out of high =school. You won't be a vice president with a car phone, until you earn =both. RULE 4 If you think your teacher is tough, wait till you get a boss. =He doesn't have tenure. RULE 5 Flipping burgers is not beneath your dignity. Your grandparents =had a different word for burger flipping; they called it opportunity. RULE 6. If you mess up, it's not your parents' fault, so don't whine =about your mistakes, learn from them. RULE 7 Before you were born, your parents weren't as boring as they are =now. They got that way from paying your bills, cleaning your clothes =and listening to you talk about how cool you are. So before you save =the rain forest from the parasites of your parents' generation, try ="delousing" the closet in your own room. RULE 8 Your school may have done away with winners and losers, but life=has not. In some schools they have abolished failing grades; they'll =give you as many times as you want to get the right answer. This =doesn't bear the slightest resemblance to ANYTHING in real life. RULE 9 Life is not divided into semesters. You don't get summers off and =very few employers are interested in helping you find yourself. Do that =on your own time. RULE 10 Television is NOT real life. In real life people actually have =to leave the coffee shop and go to jobs. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BF33D8.25D790A0 Guys,This was mind. Mike-----Original = Saturday, November 20, 1999 10:28 PMSubject: Make your= this, I am making my young people (Brad and Rebecca) = list from Bill Gates' book EXCELLENT FOR ALL PARENTS and Gates' BookFor high school and college graduates, here is a list of = they did not learn in school. In his book, Bill Gates talks about how = politically-correct teachings created a full generation of kids with no = expect you = accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself.RULE = You will NOT make 40 thousand dollars a year right out of high = won't be a vice president with a car phone, until you earn = = parents' fault, so don't whine about your mistakes, learn from = forest from the parasites of your parents' generation, try = abolished failing grades; they'll give you as many times as you want to = real life.RULE 9 Life is not divided into semesters. You don't = summers off and very few employers are interested in helping you find = Do that on your own time.RULE 10 Television is NOT real life. In = jobs. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BF33D8.25D790A0-- from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sun Nov 21 03:21:35 1999 Subject: Question from straightening a rod. Yesterday, I straightened a rod tip for a friend. I did as advised, using aheat gun, and the straightening came out just fine. My question is aboutthebamboo used in making this particular rod.I was told that the blank was purchased about 8 years ago from anunknownsource then sold to my friend. What aroused my curiosity is that thisbamboofeels infinately softer, or maybe I mean less rigid that what I am used to.The amount of heat needed to straighten the tip was also much less thanwhatI've used before on my own bamboo. Since there are no makers marks on the rod, does anyone possibly have any the seeming lack of rigidity be due to not having been tempered, orpossiblybeing made of some cane other than tonkin? Any input is welcome!Thanks, Mike from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Sun Nov 21 08:37:03 1999 Subject: Taper for Payne 98 Rodmakers Dan-Payne 98, 7', 2 piece, 4wt .0" = .066, 5' = .082, 10" = .092, 15" = .110, 20" = .122, 25" = .137, 30" =.147, 35" = .159, 40" = .171, 42" = .174BUTT 42' = .190, 45" = .194, 50" = .205, 55" = .220, 60" = .242, 65" =.261, 70" = .281, 75" = .312, 80" = .316 Size 12 ferrule, size 4 tiptop. Best, Dennis from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Sun Nov 21 08:37:08 1999 Subject: Re: payne guidespace Rodmakers Ian-The payne 101stripper was 24 3/4'', the 104 - 24 3/8, the 198 - 23 1/2 ,the 200 - 21 1/2, and the 204 - 23 1/2. I don't think you made a mistake....if the rod casts ok don'tchange it. The payne strippers seem to be closer in the 3 piece models21-23" and a little farther out in the 2 piece 23-25", but I haven't seenenuf paynes to do more than guess.. Best , Dennis P.S. how about posting the 102 taper.??? from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Sun Nov 21 08:37:58 1999 Subject: Re: Lee Wulf/Orvis taper Rodmakers Andrew-Here's a 6' that will cast an entire Lee Wulff Triangle taper 6/7 (not byme , I can only get about 60' out, but the local fly shop manager has beendown to the backing!). 1" = .070, 5" = .090, 10" = .103, 15" = .122, 20" = .139, 25" = .153, 30" =.172, 35" = .184, 40" = .190, 45" = .206, 50" = .228, 55" = .248, 60" = .259, 65 " = .270, 70 " = .276, 72" = .288 This was the first rod taper I designed. It wasn't supposed to be a 7wt butit wasn't happy with a 4, 5 or 6. Started to cast well with a DT6 and really liked the TT6/7. I've cast itwith an orvis WF7 wonderline and it liked that too. Best, Dennis from bob@downandacross.com Sun Nov 21 09:50:22 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Question from straightening a rod. That's funny Mike, I had the same question myself the other day when binding up the butt section on my first rod. I just wanted to see how the pieces fit. The glue lines will be minimal as the sections came out pretty close for a first attempt. They are within the .005 range for sure. (Yes, I know that is not perfection, but I will strive for better next time, I promise.) The power fibers in each section seemed very good. (For what I know from the Garrison, Cattanach, Maurer, and Howell's books.)Yet, when I wiggled the stick, it was a floppy whip-like section. I wondered if it was the taper (PHY Driggs), the moisture (heat treated and kept away from the basement), or the cane (tonkin from Sui River bought practice.) Someone else suggested that it may be the lack of glue. (Since the binding was rather tight, maybe the glue is what really stabilizes the blank?)As for your friend, MIke, I think-Measure the taper and see how it looks. Maybe it is narrower than the rods you are used to.Blond rods should be a bit slower.Untempered rods should be slower, too.An interesting question.Bob Maulucci At 04:33 AM 11/21/99 -0500, you wrote:Yesterday, I straightened a rod tip for a friend. I did as advised, using aheat gun, and the straightening came out just fine. My question is aboutthebamboo used in making this particular rod.I was told that the blank was purchased about 8 years ago from anunknownsource then sold to my friend. What aroused my curiosity is that thisbamboofeels infinately softer, or maybe I mean less rigid that what I am used to.The amount of heat needed to straighten the tip was also much less thanwhatI've used before on my own bamboo. Since there are no makers marks on the rod, does anyone possibly haveany the seeming lack of rigidity be due to not having been tempered, orpossiblybeing made of some cane other than tonkin? Any input is welcome!Thanks, Mike Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com productionswebsite, audio, and print designhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbob@downandacross.com from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sun Nov 21 10:06:57 1999 "'mschaffer@mindspring.com '" Subject: RE: Question from straightening a rod. Bob -- I'm new at this also and had the same thought when I wiggled myfirstbound section. But the glue makes all the difference. The unglued noodlebecame a very nice rod with good reserve power. Barry Kling -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Question from straightening a rod. That's funny Mike, I had the same question myself the other day when binding up the butt section on my first rod. I just wanted to see howthe pieces fit. The glue lines will be minimal as the sections came outpretty close for a first attempt. They are within the .005 range for sure.(Yes, I know that is not perfection, but I will strive for better next time, I promise.) The power fibers in each section seemed very good. (For what I know from the Garrison, Cattanach, Maurer, and Howell's books.)Yet, when I wiggled the stick, it was a floppy whip-like section. I wondered if it was the taper (PHY Driggs), the moisture (heat treatedand kept away from the basement), or the cane (tonkin from Sui River bought practice.) Someone else suggested that it may be the lack of glue.(Since the binding was rather tight, maybe the glue is what really stabilizesthe blank?)As for your friend, MIke, I think-Measure the taper and see how it looks. Maybe it is narrower than therods you are used to.Blond rods should be a bit slower.Untempered rods should be slower, too.An interesting question.Bob Maulucci At 04:33 AM 11/21/99 -0500, you wrote:Yesterday, I straightened a rod tip for a friend. I did as advised,using aheat gun, and the straightening came out just fine. My question isabout thebamboo used in making this particular rod.I was told that the blank was purchased about 8 years ago from anunknownsource then sold to my friend. What aroused my curiosity is that thisbamboofeels infinately softer, or maybe I mean less rigid that what I am usedto.The amount of heat needed to straighten the tip was also much less thanwhatI've used before on my own bamboo. Since there are no makers marks on the rod, does anyone possibly haveany Couldthe seeming lack of rigidity be due to not having been tempered, orpossiblybeing made of some cane other than tonkin? Any input is welcome!Thanks, Mike Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com productionswebsite, audio, and print designhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbob@downandacross.com from dan_cooney@attglobal.net Sun Nov 21 12:22:58 1999 SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Taper for Payne 98 Dennis, Thanks for the Payne 98 taper. Thanks, too, for your efforts at the SRG. The rod racks for the "CosmicCastoff" worked out great. It was really a treat to try so many differenttapers. Thanks to all who shared their beautiful rods. Regards,Dan -------------------------------- Dennis Higham wrote: Dan-Payne 98, 7', 2 piece, 4wt .0" = .066, 5' = .082, 10" = .092, 15" = .110, 20" = .122, 25" = .137, 30" =.147, 35" = .159, 40" = .171, 42" = .174BUTT 42' = .190, 45" = .194, 50" = .205, 55" = .220, 60" = .242, 65" =.261, 70" = .281, 75" = .312, 80" = .316 Size 12 ferrule, size 4 tiptop. Best, Dennis from caneman@clnk.com Sun Nov 21 12:52:28 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sun, 21 Nov 1999 12:50:55 -0600 Subject: Fw: Short rod value boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008A_01BF341E.CED82C00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008A_01BF341E.CED82C00 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Short rod value As far as why they are more collectable, I think it may be that there =were not near so many short rods as there were long rods made (by long, =I mean 7'6" and longer). As far as what I charge... well, 8' or 6', =makes no difference to me. Same price. I just prefer to fish the short =rods. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Ray Gould Date: Friday, November 19, 1999 9:27 AMSubject: Short rod value Hi to all,The recent postings regarding the use of short rods 6, 6 1/2, 7 ft =have sparked a question. What is your opinion as to exactly why it is =that the "short" rods bring so much more money than the longer ones =especially for the collector who buys a rod made by one of the old =masters. Is it simply a matter of supply and demand? Were they any more=difficult to build? Do they satisfy a particular whim of the weathy? And =a related question would be this: Do you charge more when you sell a =customer a short rod than a longer one and how do you decide what to =charge for a 6ft rod compared to an 8 1/2 ft rod?Ray ------=_NextPart_000_008A_01BF341E.CED82C00 -----Original = = valueRay, As far aswhy = collectable, I think it may be that there were not near so many short = Bob -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Friday, November 19, 1999 9:27 AMSubject: Short valueHi to all,The recent postings regarding the = rods 6, 6 1/2, 7 ft have sparked a question. What is your opinion as = exactly why it is that the "short" rods bring so much more = than the longer ones especially for the collector who buys a rod = of the old masters. Is it simply a matter of supply and demand? Were = any more difficult to build? Do they satisfy a particular whim of = weathy? And a related question would be this: Do you charge more = sell a customer a short rod than a longer one and how do you decide = charge for a 6ft rod compared to an 8 1/2 ft rod?Ray ------=_NextPart_000_008A_01BF341E.CED82C00-- from brewer@teleport.com Sun Nov 21 14:58:54 1999 0000 (216.26.32.149) Subject: Fw: rod sales question Thanks for all the good advice about sales tax collection. from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sun Nov 21 16:55:17 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id KAA23514; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 10:55:22 +1300 Subject: Re: Fw: Make your children this, Mike, It sounds to me like you have teenage sons !! Ian Kearney At 04:23 AM 21/11/99 -0500, Mike Shaffer wrote:Guys,This was sent to me by a buddy, and I thought I would forward it to thelist. I hope you don't mind. Mike-----Original Message-----From: Jerry L. Ellis ; Roger Freeman ; MichaelShaffer; Larry Hamby ; LamarUptagrafft ; Kristi Cobb ; KenConaway; Joe Cates ; Jim & JoyceArnett; Fred Uptagrafft ;DexterSapp ; Dewey Grubb ; BrianWages; Bobby Duncan Date: Saturday, November 20, 1999 10:28 PMSubject: Make your children this, I am making my young people (Brad and Rebecca) memorize this list fromBillGates' book EXCELLENT FOR ALL PARENTS and GRANDPARENTS!! :)Bill Gates' Book not learn in school. In his book, Bill Gates talks about how feel- good,politically-correct teachings created a full generation of kids with noconcept of reality and how this concept set them up for failure in the realworld. RULE 1 Life is not fair; get used to it. RULE 2. The world won't care about your self-esteem. The world willexpectyou to accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself. RULE 3 You will NOT make 40 thousand dollars a year right out of highschool. You won't be a vice president with a car phone, until you earn both. RULE 4 If you think your teacher is tough, wait till you get a boss. Hedoesn't have tenure. RULE 5 Flipping burgers is not beneath your dignity. Your grandparentshad a different word for burger flipping; they called it opportunity. RULE 6. If you mess up, it's not your parents' fault, so don't whine aboutyour mistakes, learn from them. RULE 7 Before you were born, your parents weren't as boring as they arenow. They got that way from paying your bills, cleaning your clothes andlistening to you talk about how cool you are. So before you save the rainforest from the parasites of your parents' generation, try "delousing" thecloset in your own room. RULE 8 Your school may have done away with winners and losers, but lifehas not. In some schools they have abolished failing grades; they'll giveyou as many times as you want to get the right answer. This doesn't bearthe slightest resemblance to ANYTHING in real life. RULE 9 Life is not divided into semesters. You don't get summers off andvery few employers are interested in helping you find yourself. Do that onyour own time. RULE 10 Television is NOT real life. In real life people actually have toleave the coffee shop and go to jobs. Guys,This was sentto me by a buddy, and I thought I would forward it to the list. I hope you don't mind. Mike-----Original Message-----From: Michael Lamar KenConaway Joe Jim & Dewey Saturday, November 20, 1999 10:28 PMSubject: Make yourchildren this, I am making my young people (Brad and Rebecca)memorize this list from Bill Gates' book EXCELLENT FOR ALL PARENTS and :)Bill Gates' BookFor high school and college graduates, here is a list ofthings they did not learn in school. In his book, Bill Gates talks about howfeel-good, politically-correct teachings created a full generation of kids with noconcept of reality and how this concept set them up for failure in the real 2.The you to accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself.RULE You will NOT make 40 thousand dollars a year right out of high won't be a vice president with a car phone, until you earnboth.RULE He your they parents' fault, so don't whine about your mistakes, learn fromthem.RULE clothes and rain forest from the parasites of your parents' generation, try"delousing" doneaway have abolished failing grades; they'll give you as many times as you want togetthe ANYTHING in real life.RULE 9 Life is not divided into semesters. You don't get summers off and very few employers are interested in helping you findyourself. Do that on your own time.RULE 10 Television is NOT real life. Inreal life people actually have to leave the coffee shop and go to jobs. from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Nov 21 17:30:35 1999 "INTERNET:dan_cooney@attglobal.net" ,"Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Taper for Payne 98 I owned a Payne 98 for several years until I turned it into a week on theBow River. The dimensions are different and it uses a 13/64" ferrule. Ithappens that this is one of the most popular rods that I make. Ron Barchtold me that he has seen about six variations of the model 98. ----------From: Dennis Higham Subject: Taper for Payne 98Date: Sunday, November 21, 1999 9:33 AM Dan-Payne 98, 7', 2 piece, 4wt .0" = .066, 5' = .082, 10" = .092, 15" = .110, 20" = .122, 25" = .137, 30"=.147, 35" = .159, 40" = .171, 42" = .174BUTT 42' = .190, 45" = .194, 50" = .205, 55" = .220, 60" = .242, 65" =.261, 70" = .281, 75" = .312, 80" = .316 Size 12 ferrule, size 4 tiptop. Best, Dennis from dmanders@telusplanet.net Sun Nov 21 18:00:39 1999 don") Sun, 21 Nov 1999 17:03:31 -0700 Subject: Help with a mystery rod Guys/Gals, A fellow dropped off a tip section of a rod today that he believes came from a 4 piece 2 tip rod.All I got was a tip - the rest was lost in a break-in. He wants toreplicate the tip as close as possible but I'm stuck.Any help would be appreciated. The tip is 30" longThere are intermediate wraps from 2>4" apart with the wrap coloralternating between a light olive and red.The original tip top has been replaced with a Perfection - no help there.The tip is equipped with English twist snakes in small sizes.The tip ferrule is brass and the OD is 0.202"The ferrule is wrapped with olive thread.The varnish is not real thick The taper for the section I have is: 0 - 0.0865 - 0.11010- 0.12415 - 0.13720 - 0.15825 - 0.173 If this is a 4 piece rod, it would be 10 ft. long and that is not unusual packing a 7>9 wt. line. Any help with this one would be great, thanx, Don from cadams46@juno.com Sun Nov 21 18:38:35 1999 19:38:02 EST Subject: Plane iron angles Seems to me this has been asked before but I can't seem to recall. Ihave a Stanley 9 1/2 block plane that I keep the iron honed to 25*. Iwas just wondering if all you guys keep that same angle or if theres abetter angle for bamboo. I know my great grandfather always kept hisplanes honed to a very low angle some where around 15*. Thanks,C.R. Adams from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Nov 21 23:34:04 1999 Subject: Re: Plane iron angles I grind the face angle of the blade ( the angle between the cutting edge ofthe blade and the form) to 60 degrees regardless of the plane model. ----------From: Chase R Adams Subject: Plane iron anglesDate: Sunday, November 21, 1999 7:38 PM Seems to me this has been asked before but I can't seem to recall. Ihave a Stanley 9 1/2 block plane that I keep the iron honed to 25*. Iwas just wondering if all you guys keep that same angle or if theres abetter angle for bamboo. I know my great grandfather always kept hisplanes honed to a very low angle some where around 15*. Thanks,C.R. Adams from jkcerise@rof.net Mon Nov 22 00:47:09 1999 Subject: Re: Fw: Make your children this, Gang,Not to drag this thread out ,,,,,,,,, but!!It is obvious to me that not only does Mike have kids, he understandshisrole as a parent as opposed to the role of being little Becky and Brad'sbest friend!!! We need more parents like this today rather than thelilly-livered feelgooders we're seeing!!! Today's 'parents' are readingtoo many books!!!I think that I am seeing the pendulum swing back towards the middlea bitand it's about time before America falls to some mediocre middle easternbunch because we don't want to hurt their feelings by shooting them astheyattack our mainland!! Great Going Mike!! jkc At 10:55 AM 11/22/99 +1300, you wrote:Mike, It sounds to me like you have teenage sons !! Ian Kearney At 04:23 AM 21/11/99 -0500, Mike Shaffer wrote:Guys,This was sent to me by a buddy, and I thought I would forward it to thelist. I hope you don't mind. from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Mon Nov 22 03:05:40 1999 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Subject: stop! boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_000B_01BF34D1.6ECCFBC0";type="multipart/alternative" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF34D1.6ECCFBC0 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000C_01BF34D1.6ECCFBC0" ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01BF34D1.6ECCFBC0 Gang,Not to drag this thread out ,,,,,,,,, but!!It is obvious to me that not only does Mike have kids, he understands =hisrole as a parent as opposed to the role of being little Becky and =Brad'sbest friend!!! We need more parents like this today rather than thelilly-livered feelgooders we're seeing!!! Today's 'parents' are =readingtoo many books!!!I think that I am seeing the pendulum swing back towards the middle a =bitand it's about time before America falls to some mediocre middle =easternbunch because we don't want to hurt their feelings by shooting them as =theyattack our mainland!! Great Going Mike!! jkc I am no lilly livered whatever, I do not live in the midlle east, and I =most certainly think, that the above is totally out out context on this =list. Like others I joined this this to debate romaking and related things, =and have been more than happy with the spirit of my fellow listers, =freely sharing info and humour. Being a Dane I am not up to date on the most recent fashions in american =politics, so I might have missed something. What I have understood, and =what the writer of the above most certainly NOT understand - is that =this list is about rodmaking. Digressions are allowed, at the =discression of the Listers, but the above is totally uncalled for. If I have offended others than the writer of the above, I am, indeed, =very sorry. I never ment to. If You think I have flamed the writer - =You=B4re right. Sorry friends - just thought someone had to draw the line, and did it. As for me, this is where my involment in this argument stops. This case =is best forgotten. regards, Carsten JorgensenDenmark ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01BF34D1.6ECCFBC0 New Page 1 live in the midlle east, and I most certainly think, that the above is = out out context on this list.Like others I joined this this to = romaking and related things, and have been more than happy with the = fellow listers, freely sharing info and humour.Being a Dane I am = to date on the most recent fashions in american politics, so I might = something. What I have understood, and what the writer of the above = certainly NOT understand - is that this list is about rodmaking. = allowed, at the discression of the Listers, but the above is totally = for.If I have offended others than the writer of the above, I = indeed, very sorry. I never ment to. If You think I have flamed the = You´re right.Sorry friends - just thought someone had to = line, and did it.As for me, this is where my involment in this = JorgensenDenmark ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01BF34D1.6ECCFBC0-- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF34D1.6ECCFBC0 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------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF34D1.6ECCFBC0-- from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Mon Nov 22 07:48:36 1999 0500 Subject: RE: Tom Whittle Thanks to all who responded to my request for a tarpon taper, on and offlist. from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Nov 22 07:58:40 1999 Subject: Re: Plane iron angles Hi Chase,I've found it works better to have the angle of the plane blade itself setat 45 degrees.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Plane iron angles Seems to me this has been asked before but I can't seem to recall. Ihave a Stanley 9 1/2 block plane that I keep the iron honed to 25*. Iwas just wondering if all you guys keep that same angle or if theres abetter angle for bamboo. I know my great grandfather always kept hisplanes honed to a very low angle some where around 15*.Thanks,C.R. Adams from LambersonW@missouri.edu Mon Nov 22 08:07:47 1999 (5.5.2650.21) bob@downandacross.com Subject: RE: splicing I have built several nodeless rods using sanded joints and glued withTitebond II. I have had one set of joints fail. They were glued when itwas very cold in my shop and the glue may have been previously frozen. Inthat set, every splice failed but I have had no others fail. I have alsosanded splices to join the two sections of a couple of quads (to replacetheferrule). They were glued with resorcinol and reinforced with an invisiblewrap. The have survived some casting with no discernable problems, but Ihaven't had a fish on them yet. My routine is to hold the strip in a jig and press a 12" sanding disk intoit to make the cut. I am using 120 grit paper with the red sanding grit.After sanding the surfaces are not perfectly smooth yet fit together verywell. The joints are virtually invisible on finished rods. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: splicing Thinking about many years of working with wood, it's very difficult tokeepthe gluing surface flat, when sanding. It's a trained thing, to learn tokeep a sanding block in the correct plane, and not round an edge.Considering the form to help with this, a slightly rough sanded surface,would make a better glue joint. I'd be most interested to know, what grit, those who sand use ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: splicing Bob: I think it depends on the glue. Epoxy would do better with a sandedsurface. Other glues require a careful fit (ie rescorcinal) and wouldprobablybe better with the planed surface. I have had no trouble with planing,however, and then using a slow setting epoxy like Nyatex.Ed Hartzell bob maulucci wrote: Anyone have opinions (based on actual use) if it is better to plane orsandsplices into your nodeless sections? Both techniques are represented ontheRodmaker's page, and I have tried both. I wonder if one forms a betterglueup surface than the other. Any ideas.Thanks,BobBob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Mon Nov 22 08:44:37 1999 Subject: Payne 98 Ted-Thanks for the info. The Payne 98 I posted came from measurements takenbya friend, who measured an unvarnished rod. The Payne 98 in Maurer's firstbook (the one published in '95) had almost the same #'s (biggestdifference was 2 thou at the ferrule). I've never built a 98 but I'vewondered about the 4wt designation. The three payne catalogs I have(fromthe 60's,78, and 96) all list the 98 as a fast 5wt, not a 4. The 97 islisted as a 4. With the 13 ferrule on yours I'm guessing it's a stouter rod/taper. Is it a5wt?? Dennis from 2UD@dwaf-pcm.pwv.gov.za Mon Nov 22 09:04:15 1999 1.31);22 Nov 99 14:57:58 GMT+0200 GMT+0200 Subject: Unsubscribe Hi, Please unsubscribe me from the list. Somewhere there are multiplecopy of my name on the list. I receive all the e-mails in triplicateand it bombing out the server. RegardsStephen Dept Water Affairs and ForestryPotchefstroomTel. 018-297 3867Fax. 018- 294 8233 from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Nov 22 10:00:48 1999 1999 08:00:41 PST Subject: Re: stop! excuse me friend but what needs to be stopped is the10k of advertisement attached to your email. timothy --- "scan.oest" wrote: Gang,Not to drag this thread out ,,,,,,,,, but!!It is obvious to me that not only does Mike havekids, he understands hisrole as a parent as opposed to the role of beinglittle Becky and Brad'sbest friend!!! We need more parents like thistoday rather than thelilly-livered feelgooders we're seeing!!! Today's'parents' are readingtoo many books!!!I think that I am seeing the pendulum swing backtowards the middle a bitand it's about time before America falls to somemediocre middle easternbunch because we don't want to hurt their feelings attack our mainland!! Great Going Mike!! jkc I am no lilly livered whatever, I do not live in themidlle east, and I most certainly think, that theabove is totally out out context on this list. Like others I joined this this to debate romakingand related things, and have been more than happywith the spirit of my fellow listers, freely sharinginfo and humour. Being a Dane I am not up to date on the most recentfashions in american politics, so I might havemissed something. What I have understood, and whatthe writer of the above most certainly NOTunderstand - is that this list is about rodmaking.Digressions are allowed, at the discression of theListers, but the above is totally uncalled for. If I have offended others than the writer of theabove, I am, indeed, very sorry. I never ment to. IfYou think I have flamed the writer - You're right. Sorry friends - just thought someone had to draw theline, and did it. As for me, this is where my involment in thisargument stops. This case is best forgotten. regards, Carsten JorgensenDenmark ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from dati@selway.umt.edu Mon Nov 22 10:10:44 1999 09:10:33 -0700 Subject: 60 degree contact point Hi everyone, I know that there has been information given on where to get a 60 degreecontact point for dial indicator; do you all mind sending it again? Iam still working on my first rod, a taper by Ray Gould. Now I am to thethe point where I need a dial indicator and point to set my planing forms.Thanks so muchDarin Law from punky@integratedmillsystems.com Mon Nov 22 11:23:05 1999 31.ix.netcom.com (1.61/SMTP) for Subject: Re: 60 degree contact point Darin, I got one from McMaster-Carr. It's the Starrett point PT06632-6. It wasaspecial order, but it took less than a week to get it. Plus they don't havea minimum order requirement. Here's the info: http://www.mcmaster.com/ McMaster part no.: 21085A745Price: $3.45 Good luck, Keith I know that there has been information given on where to get a 60 degreecontact point for dial indicator; do you all mind sending it again? Iam still working on my first rod, a taper by Ray Gould. Now I am to thethe point where I need a dial indicator and point to set my planing forms.Thanks so muchDarin Law from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Nov 22 12:34:35 1999 KAA23633 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: glue joints It's an old wives tale that a roughed up glue surface makes a better gluejoint. The factis if you do this you end up with a glue joint that is basically gluing fuzzto fuzz. Thebest joint is a planed joint, solid wood to solid wood. A sanded joint isgluing the fuzzthat appears on a wetted sanded surface to the same fuzz on the othersurface. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Nov 22 14:40:39 1999 Subject: Re: Fw: Make your children this, uncle George, it's you, I know it is you, there is no mistaking that style John Cerise wrote: Gang,Not to drag this thread out ,,,,,,,,, but!!It is obvious to me that not only does Mike have kids, heunderstands hisrole as a parent as opposed to the role of being little Becky and Brad'sbest friend!!! We need more parents like this today rather than thelilly-livered feelgooders we're seeing!!! Today's 'parents' are readingtoo many books!!!I think that I am seeing the pendulum swing back towards themiddle a bitand it's about time before America falls to some mediocre middleeasternbunch because we don't want to hurt their feelings by shooting them astheyattack our mainland!! Great Going Mike!! jkc At 10:55 AM 11/22/99 +1300, you wrote:Mike, It sounds to me like you have teenage sons !! Ian Kearney At 04:23 AM 21/11/99 -0500, Mike Shaffer wrote:Guys,This was sent to me by a buddy, and I thought I would forward it to thelist. I hope you don't mind. from gholland@navsys.com Mon Nov 22 14:52:20 1999 Subject: RE: Fw: Make your children this, Doubtful - I'm not an "uncle george" fan at all, but I do agree with both Mike's postand the response of "John Cerise". Greg Holland -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Fw: Make your children this, uncle George, it's you, I know it is you, there is no mistaking that style John Cerise wrote: Gang,Not to drag this thread out ,,,,,,,,, but!!It is obvious to me that not only does Mike have kids, heunderstands hisrole as a parent as opposed to the role of being little Becky and Brad'sbest friend!!! We need more parents like this today rather than thelilly-livered feelgooders we're seeing!!! Today's 'parents' are readingtoo many books!!!I think that I am seeing the pendulum swing back towards themiddle a bitand it's about time before America falls to some mediocre middleeasternbunch because we don't want to hurt their feelings by shooting them astheyattack our mainland!! Great Going Mike!! jkc At 10:55 AM 11/22/99 +1300, you wrote:Mike, It sounds to me like you have teenage sons !! Ian Kearney At 04:23 AM 21/11/99 -0500, Mike Shaffer wrote:Guys,This was sent to me by a buddy, and I thought I would forward it to thelist. I hope you don't mind. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Nov 22 15:05:33 1999 13:14:22 PST Subject: 9' Phillipson Premium 3/2 5 5/8oz. HCH Here is one I said I would post from a couple weeks ago. 9' Phillipson premium 3/2 5 5/8 oz. HCH.Black wraps with white tipping and then black tipping. Hammer grip. Black aluminum "No Rock" downlocking screwlock reelseat. No hookkeeper. Granger/Phillipson style winding check. Ferrules are size 18 butt/med,and size 12 mid/tip. They are step down design.I would subtract .006 for varnish. I gave all measurements rounded to the nearest .0005" to demonstrate how well Phillipson production rods were made. 5" station measurements can't do justice to what a beveler can do, but hopefully if you make this rod it will be similar to Phillipson's design. The measurements on the mid section betwen 60" and 70" are not an error. This was apparently afeature Phillipson wanted in this taper. Guide spacing is also shown below. The space between the bottom guideon the tips and the top guide on the mid is only 3 5/8" because there is a guide butted up against either side of the mid/tip ferrule, as was typical on some Phillipson and Granger rods. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tip #1 Tip #2 1" .0775, .079, .079 .076, .076, .07855" .092, .092, .0925 .0915, .0915, .091510" .113, .113, .1155 .114, .1155, .11615" .1275, .1285, .129 .132, .1325, .132520" .145, .1455, .1475 .149, .150, .15125" .157, .1595, .1615 .159, .161, .16130" .170, .171, .1735 .169, .171, .17134" .172, .1735, .176 .172, .1735, .175Ferrule40" .1995, .202, .204545" .2285, .2285, .23350" .239, .243, .243555" .250, .250, .25360" .261, .261, .262565" .255, .256, .26070" .259, .261, guideFerrule75" .278, .284, .284580" .302, .306, .30985" .321, .3275, .330590" .335, .337, .34295" .3475, .355, .356 97" .387, .388, .398Wrap/Check/Cork starts about here *** Guide Spacing*** tiptop 0"#1 6"#2 12 #3 19" #4 26 5/8"#5 34 1/2" mid#6 38 1/8"#7 48 1/4"#8 58 7/8"#9 70" buttstripper 78 3/4" from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Nov 22 15:18:04 1999 Subject: Re: Fw: Make your children this, I can see that a few smacks round the head as a child has not effectedJohn'sreasoning.Incredible, just incredible.Greg Holland wrote: Doubtful - I'm not an "uncle george" fan at all, but I do agree with both Mike's postand the response of "John Cerise". Greg Holland -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, November 22, 1999 1:43 PM Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Fw: Make your children this, uncle George, it's you, I know it is you, there is no mistaking that style John Cerise wrote: Gang,Not to drag this thread out ,,,,,,,,, but!!It is obvious to me that not only does Mike have kids, heunderstands hisrole as a parent as opposed to the role of being little Becky and Brad'sbest friend!!! We need more parents like this today rather than thelilly-livered feelgooders we're seeing!!! Today's 'parents' are readingtoo many books!!!I think that I am seeing the pendulum swing back towards themiddle a bitand it's about time before America falls to some mediocre middleeasternbunch because we don't want to hurt their feelings by shooting them astheyattack our mainland!! Great Going Mike!! jkc At 10:55 AM 11/22/99 +1300, you wrote:Mike, It sounds to me like you have teenage sons !! Ian Kearney At 04:23 AM 21/11/99 -0500, Mike Shaffer wrote:Guys,This was sent to me by a buddy, and I thought I would forward it tothelist. I hope you don't mind. from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Tue Nov 23 04:02:16 1999 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF35A2.83D658A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF35A2.83D658A0 unsubscribe rodmakers ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF35A2.83D658A0 New Page 1 unsubscribe rodmakers ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF35A2.83D658A0-- from gholland@uswest.net Tue Nov 23 07:56:43 1999 (207.225.28.228) Subject: Re: Too bad, because you added something to the list.Greg"scan.oest" wrote: unsubscribe rodmakers from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Tue Nov 23 08:23:25 1999 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Subject: unsubscribe boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF35C6.FE8E5240" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF35C6.FE8E5240 Sorry about the "unsubscribe" but nothing was coming through, so I just =went through the usual process about unsub & sub. Well, there must have =been hole through, =B4cause my message hit the list (read it myself). Where is everybody - fishing? regards Carsten. PS.: Timothy - look, no advertizing:-)))) ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF35C6.FE8E5240 New Page 1 Sorry about the "unsubscribe" but nothing was coming = so I just went through the usual process about unsub & sub. Well, = myself).Where is everybody - fishing?regardsCarsten.PS.: Timothy - look, no advertizing:-)))) ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF35C6.FE8E5240-- from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Tue Nov 23 08:25:08 1999 Subject: don't go I wish you wouldn't let a few outliers drive you away, I've learned severalinteresting things from your posts, and from many others outside the US. Iknow that a few people on this list have lived down to your expectationsforthe Ugly American but they're just a few, and jingoism (witness thedeclineof Pat Buchanan, if you follow such things) is still not very popular. Afterall, we can't let a few mediocre Middle Americans attack us and.....etc etc. I also hope none of those who agree with the Uncle-Georgesque sentimentsleave the list. Some of my very best friends are foolish enough to disagreewith me, and I'd even let my daughter marry one. This whole flamefest is agood example of the benefits of keeping the list focused on rodmaking. from caneman@clnk.com Tue Nov 23 08:30:33 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Tue, 23 Nov 1999 08:28:55 -0600 Subject: Making "Poles" boundary="----=_NextPart_000_04A3_01BF358C.7C08AC60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_04A3_01BF358C.7C08AC60 Have you ever been misquoted? Well, as some of you know, I live in a =small Oklahoma town ("hick town", if you wish) and one of the local =newspapers wrote an article about me. In that article, they used the =phrase "fly fishing POLE" 6 times. Two of those they quoted me as =using! LOL No biggie, cause for the most part, folks around here =aren't my customers, but still kinda frustrating to damn the word "pole" =then be misquoted by a down home, country reporter as using it to =describe my rods. Where was it I read that quote about "a pole is =something you run a flag up..."??? Was that in that other Polemakers =book???? Wayne???Oh, well, back to the coffee pot then check the drying box to see if =my poles...er, uh... rods are ready. Later,Bob N.Split Bamboo Polemaker! LMAO ------=_NextPart_000_04A3_01BF358C.7C08AC60 small Oklahoma town ("hick town", if you wish) and = phrase "fly fishing POLE" cause for the most part, folks around here aren't my customers, but = frustrating to damn the word "pole" then be misquoted by a = quote about "a pole is something you run a flag = Wayne??? Later,Bob N. LMAO ------=_NextPart_000_04A3_01BF358C.7C08AC60-- from caneman@clnk.com Tue Nov 23 08:43:51 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Tue, 23 Nov 1999 08:42:17 -0600 Subject: Exposure... good or not? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_04DB_01BF358E.5A88B4C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_04DB_01BF358E.5A88B4C0 OK, I am over the quote thing now! Got a general question... How many =of you have had newspaper exposure, or other exposure for that matter, =ie:, television, radio, booths at shows... I know a couple of you have! =I guess I am curious about whether it actually did you any "good" or =not. I have had 3 newspaper articles, 2 television spots, done an art =show where a friend of mine was featured with his flyfishing art =(remember that one, Dick?). They did generate some interest and a few =phone calls. I guess more than anything else, it gets your name between =everyones ears and implants it in their brain somewhere, so I would have =to say that what media exposure I have had is marginally good... What =about everyone else? Bob ------=_NextPart_000_04DB_01BF358E.5A88B4C0 OK, I am over the quote thing = Got a general question... How many of you have had newspaper exposure, = exposure for that matter, ie:, television, radio, booths at shows... I = spots, done an art show where a friend of mine was featured with his = everyones ears and implants it in their brain somewhere, so I would have = everyone else? Bob ------=_NextPart_000_04DB_01BF358E.5A88B4C0-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Nov 23 08:54:35 1999 1999 06:54:31 PST Subject: apology rodmakers, i thought there might be reason toapologize publically to my curt sounding response toyesterdays political debate. i really was notresponding to the issue. i was being flip. i forgetit's hard to interprett words without looking into thefellows eyes. i apologised to carsten this morning. my email went down yesterday and was bouncingeverything back. it sounds as if there was more goingon with this than i know. please excuse. timothytroester ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Nov 23 09:12:44 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:12:50 -0600 Subject: Re: Exposure... good or not? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF3592.E5EA5420" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF3592.E5EA5420 First on the "pole" thing: I am convinced some on such places as eBay, =list a bamboo fly rod, as a pole for a purpose ! At least some think =this is an indication that they know nothing about what they have, and =they must really have a Powell, or Leonard, and they can be "had" by =selling it very low ! So many, think that their "Monty" is worth many =hundreds, because it is cane, as ALL cane is worth a bundle ! It is just =a nomenclature that tells that the user of such a name, has no idea of =what it really is all about ! As to publicity, in magazines, newspapers, etc., it certainly doesn't =hurt. In my business, I use my name like Arnold Palmer would in golf. We =are both "has beens", but the name still carries weight, to the trade. I =have no allusions to ever achieving such fame in cane rods, but anyone =who makes a fine example, has everything to gain ! Who was it that said, ="Just spell my name right" ? GMA Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 8:40 AMSubject: Exposure... good or not? OK, I am over the quote thing now! Got a general question... How =many of you have had newspaper exposure, or other exposure for that =matter, ie:, television, radio, booths at shows... I know a couple of =you have! I guess I am curious about whether it actually did you any ="good" or not. I have had 3 newspaper articles, 2 television spots, =done an art show where a friend of mine was featured with his flyfishing=art (remember that one, Dick?). They did generate some interest and a =few phone calls. I guess more than anything else, it gets your name =between everyones ears and implants it in their brain somewhere, so I =would have to say that what media exposure I have had is marginally =good... What about everyone else? Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF3592.E5EA5420 First on the "pole" thing: I am convinced = places as eBay, list a bamboo fly rod, as a pole for a purpose ! At = think this is an indication that they know nothing about what they have, = they must really have a Powell, or Leonard, and they can be "had" by = very low ! So many, think that their "Monty" is worth many hundreds, = is cane, as ALL cane is worth a bundle ! It is just a = tells that the user of such a name, has no idea of what it really is all = ! As to publicity, in magazines, newspapers, etc., it = doesn't hurt. In my business, I use my name like Arnold Palmer would in = are both "has beens", but the name still carries weight, to the trade. I = allusions to ever achieving such fame in cane rods, but anyone who makes= example, has everything to gain ! Who was it that said, "Just spell my = right" ? GMA ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley Makers List Serve Sent: Tuesday, November 23, = AMSubject: Exposure... good or =not? OK, I am over the quote thing = Got a general question... How many of you have had newspaper exposure, = other exposure for that matter, ie:, television, radio, booths at = television spots, done an art show where a friend of mine was featured = your name between everyones ears and implants it in their brain = I would have to say that what media exposure I have had is Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF3592.E5EA5420-- from gholland@navsys.com Tue Nov 23 09:22:59 1999 Rod Makers List Serve Subject: RE: Making "Poles" Wasn't it Norman McLean who had a quote that went something like "whensomeone called it a pole my father looked at them the way a drill sargeantwould look at a new marine recruit when he called his rifle a gun." Very paraphrased, but it went something like that. Good luck on you polemaking. Greg -----Original Message----- Subject: Making "Poles" Have you ever been misquoted? Well, as some of you know, I live in asmallOklahoma town ("hick town", if you wish) and one of the local newspaperswrote an article about me. In that article, they used the phrase "flyfishing POLE" 6 times. Two of those they quoted me as using! LOL Nobiggie, cause for the most part, folks around here aren't my customers, butstill kinda frustrating to damn the word "pole" then be misquoted by adownhome, country reporter as using it to describe my rods. Where was it Ireadthat quote about "a pole is something you run a flag up..."??? Was that inthat other Polemakers book???? Wayne???Oh, well, back to the coffee pot then check the drying box to see if mypoles...er, uh... rods are ready. Later,Bob N.Split Bamboo Polemaker! LMAO from landeens@home.com Tue Nov 23 09:29:21 1999 with SMTP 0800 Subject: Final Varnishing boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF3584.2453F360" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF3584.2453F360 I was reading the discussion recently on sanding between varnish coats =and I have a question. Bob Nunley indicated that on his final coat that =he sands with 1200 grit and then applies polish. I lot of rodmakers =including myself don't sand the final coat but just apply polish. What =do most people do and is sanding recommended on the final coat? ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF3584.2453F360 I was reading the discussion recently on sanding = varnish coats and I have a question. Bob Nunley indicated that on his = that he sands with 1200 grit and then applies polish. I lot of rodmakers = including myself don't sand the final coat but just apply polish. What = coat? ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF3584.2453F360-- from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Nov 23 09:41:20 1999 Subject: Re: Exposure... good or not? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01BF3586.1B7363A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BF3586.1B7363A0 Hi to all,It seems to me it depends on what a person wishes to gain from the ="exposure" if anything. In my case I'm certainly not trying to make a =living via bamboo rod making but do love the work, the sport and the =chance to share with others what I've learned. I don't advertise =regularly, I don't have a web page but I do have all the work I want as =a retirement activity. Some work has come my way because of the three =local newspaper articles done about my cane work, but they've all been =local interest stories. The booths I've had at local fly fishing shows =have also helped. But probably the best thing as far as business is =concerned is putting on programs for the local fly fishing clubs. So I'd =say that the exposure is good in that it helps drive interest in fly =fishing in general and that alone has many fine ramifications.Ray Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 6:40 AMSubject: Exposure... good or not? OK, I am over the quote thing now! Got a general question... How =many of you have had newspaper exposure, or other exposure for that =matter, ie:, television, radio, booths at shows... I know a couple of =you have! I guess I am curious about whether it actually did you any ="good" or not. I have had 3 newspaper articles, 2 television spots, =done an art show where a friend of mine was featured with his flyfishing=art (remember that one, Dick?). They did generate some interest and a =few phone calls. I guess more than anything else, it gets your name =between everyones ears and implants it in their brain somewhere, so I =would have to say that what media exposure I have had is marginally =good... What about everyone else? Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BF3586.1B7363A0 Hi to all,It seems to me it depends on what a = to gain from the "exposure" if anything. In my case I'm certainly not = make a living via bamboo rod making but do love the work, the sport and = chance to share with others what I've learned. I don't advertise = activity. Some work has come my way because of the three localnewspaper = articles done about my cane work, but they've all been local interest = The booths I've had at local fly fishing shows have also helped. But = the best thing as far as business is concerned is putting on programs = local fly fishing clubs. So I'd say that the exposure is good in that it = ramifications.Ray ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley Makers List Serve Sent: Tuesday, November 23, = AMSubject: Exposure... good or =not? OK, I am over the quote thing = Got a general question... How many of you have had newspaper exposure, = other exposure for that matter, ie:, television, radio, booths at = television spots, done an art show where a friend of mine was featured = your name between everyones ears and implants it in their brain = I would have to say that what media exposure I have had is Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BF3586.1B7363A0-- from DNHayashida@aol.com Tue Nov 23 10:17:48 1999 Subject: Re: Final Varnishing I used to do a lot of woodworking - furniture making -in the past. We did use polyurethane and we did sandbetween coats, but the finest sandpaper we used was600 wet dry. On the final coat we used, and I stilluse it on my rods, a polishing compound called Deluxingcompound. It's made specifically for polishing thefinal varnish coat. I get it from Woodcraft. I was reading the discussion recently on sanding between varnish coatsand I have aquestion. Bob Nunley indicated that on his final coat that he sands with1200 grit andthen applies polish. I lot of rodmakers including myself don't sand thefinal coat butjust apply polish. What do most people do and is sanding recommended onthe final coat?I was reading the discussion recently on sanding between varnish coatsand I have a question. Bob Nunley indicated that on his final coat that hesands with1200 grit and then applies polish. I lot of rodmakers including myselfdon't sand thefinal coat but just apply polish. What do most people do and is sandingrecommended onthe final coat? from edriddle@mindspring.com Tue Nov 23 10:21:32 1999 Subject: Re: 9' Phillipson Premium 3/2 5 5/8oz. HCH To All:I own one of these with only one tip section and unfortunately that one isdown 5" at the tip. I've been told that other Phillipson model tip- sectionsmight fit, but who has any extras lying around. If anyone is interested inmaking me a tip section, or two, please contact me off list.Also, what should I use to remove masking tape residue from a finishedrodwithout harming the varnish? TIA.Ed-----Original Message-- --- Subject: 9' Phillipson Premium 3/2 5 5/8oz. HCH Here is one I said I would post from a couple weeks ago. 9' Phillipson premium 3/2 5 5/8 oz. HCH.Black wraps with white tipping and then black tipping. Hammer grip. Blackaluminum "No Rock" downlocking screwlock reelseat. No hookkeeper.Granger/Phillipson style winding check. Ferrules are size 18 butt/med,andsize 12 mid/tip. They are step down design.I would subtract .006 for varnish. I gave all measurements rounded to the nearest .0005" to demonstratehowwell Phillipson production rods were made. 5" station measurementscan'tdo justice to what a beveler can do, but hopefully if you make this rod itwill be similar to Phillipson's design. The measurements on the midsection betwen 60" and 70" are not an error. This was apparently afeaturePhillipson wanted in this taper. Guide spacing is also shown below. The space between the bottom guideonthe tips and the top guide on the mid is only 3 5/8" because there is aguide butted up against either side of the mid/tip ferrule, as was typicalon some Phillipson and Granger rods. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tip #1 Tip #2 1" .0775, .079, .079 .076, .076, .07855" .092, .092, .0925 .0915, .0915, .091510" .113, .113, .1155 .114, .1155, .11615" .1275, .1285, .129 .132, .1325, .132520" .145, .1455, .1475 .149, .150, .15125" .157, .1595, .1615 .159, .161, .16130" .170, .171, .1735 .169, .171, .17134" .172, .1735, .176 .172, .1735, .175Ferrule40" .1995, .202, .204545" .2285, .2285, .23350" .239, .243, .243555" .250, .250, .25360" .261, .261, .262565" .255, .256, .26070" .259, .261, guideFerrule75" .278, .284, .284580" .302, .306, .30985" .321, .3275, .330590" .335, .337, .34295" .3475, .355, .35697" .387, .388, .398Wrap/Check/Cork starts about here *** Guide Spacing*** tiptop 0"#1 6"#2 12#3 19"#4 26 5/8"#5 34 1/2" mid#6 38 1/8"#7 48 1/4"#8 58 7/8"#9 70" buttstripper 78 3/4" from caneman@clnk.com Tue Nov 23 10:24:39 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:22:54 -0600 Subject: Re: Final Varnishing boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0553_01BF359C.68422980" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0553_01BF359C.68422980 Well, I guess sanding is not necessary everywhere, for everyone. First =you must understand that I live in a VERY humid climate. If the =humidity is under 75%, we consider it a DRY day here in the Arkansas =River Valley. This humidity will almost invariably cause flaws in my =final varnish, no matter how hard I try to prep the previous coat or how =clean and smooth my surface is. It is pretty much necessary for me to =final sand before polishing. All of us know how one little blemish will =show up on cane and, let me tell you, on days like today (just checked =TV10 and our humidity is 98% right now) it is impossible to get the kind =of clean smoothe coat of varnish I like. Wish I didn't have to get out =the 1200 and smoothe it out... and maybe someday I will be able to build =a varnishing room that is sealed and where a good dehumidifier will do =some good, but for now, the elbow grease is my only answer. If someone =else knows a better way, then PLEASE let me know, cause the only thing I=hate worse than brussel sprouts is wet sanding! Bob-----Original Message-----From: Landeens Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 9:30 AMSubject: Final Varnishing I was reading the discussion recently on sanding between varnish =coats and I have a question. Bob Nunley indicated that on his final coat =that he sands with 1200 grit and then applies polish. I lot of rodmakers =including myself don't sand the final coat but just apply polish. What =do most people do and is sanding recommended on the final coat? ------=_NextPart_000_0553_01BF359C.68422980 Well, I guess sanding is not = flaws in my final varnish, no matter how hard I try to prep the previous = show up on cane and, let me tell you, on days like today (just checked = our humidity is 98% right now) it is impossible to get the kind of clean = it out... and maybe someday I will be able to build a varnishing room = sealed and where a good dehumidifier will do some good, but for now, the= = let me know, cause the only thing I hate worse than brussel sprouts is = sanding! Bob -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= VarnishingI was reading the discussion recently on sanding = varnish coats and I have a question. Bob Nunley indicated that on = rodmakers including myself don't sand the final coat but just apply = coat? ------=_NextPart_000_0553_01BF359C.68422980-- from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Tue Nov 23 10:37:29 1999 Subject: NH boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF35D0.E7C23F40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF35D0.E7C23F40 Learned people,I will be in the Nashua/Manchester, NH area next week and it looks like =I might get the best part of Saturday free before my flight back to the =UK. Are there any good outlets for rodmaking components in the =vicinity?ThanksTim. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF35D0.E7C23F40 Learned people,I will be in the Nashua/Manchester, NH area next = looks like I might get the best part of Saturday free before my flight = = vicinity?ThanksTim. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF35D0.E7C23F40-- from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Nov 23 10:43:31 1999 0500 Subject: RE: Final Varnishing Also, is polishing really necessary? What is the purpose, to slightly dull aglossy finish (if that is desired) or to remove very fine imperfections? -----Original Message----- Subject: Final Varnishing I was reading the discussion recently on sanding between varnish coatsand Ihave a question. Bob Nunley indicated that on his final coat that he sandswith1200 grit and then applies polish. I lot of rodmakers including myselfdon'tsand the final coat but just apply polish. What do most people do and issandingrecommended on the final coat? from DNHayashida@aol.com Tue Nov 23 10:59:56 1999 Subject: RE: Final Varnishing It's not really necessary, but when any varnish driesa very thin slightly dulling residue migrates to thesurface. It isn't very noticeable until it is polishedoff. Then the surface of the varnish really looksnice.Darryl Also, is polishing really necessary? What is the purpose, to slightly dullaglossy finish (if that is desired) or to remove very fine imperfections? -----Original Message-----From: Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 10:27 AM Subject: Final Varnishing I was reading the discussion recently on sanding between varnish coatsand Ihave a question. Bob Nunley indicated that on his final coat that he sandswith1200 grit and then applies polish. I lot of rodmakers including myselfdon'tsand the final coat but just apply polish. What do most people do and issandingrecommended on the final coat? from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Nov 23 11:38:30 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Go to REC... bring lots of cash... boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF3595.CECE77A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF3595.CECE77A0 REC72 Shaker RdEnfield CT 06082860-749-3476 tele. In order to get a discount, you'll need to have a resale number and buy =about $750 retail price to get 40% off. they are very nice people to =work with... their site is www.reccomponents.com You might want to contact them in advance to prepare an order as they =make most of their reel seats to order and some of their items are also =made to order. Their site shows most of their products... it's too late = Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 8:36 AMSubject: NH Learned people,I will be in the Nashua/Manchester, NH area next week and it looks =like I might get the best part of Saturday free before my flight back to =the UK. Are there any good outlets for rodmaking components in the =vicinity?ThanksTim. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF3595.CECE77A0 REC72 Shaker RdEnfield CT06082860-749-3476 =tele. In order to get a discount, = have a resale number and buy about $750 retail price to get 40% off. = very nice people to work with... their site is www.reccomponents.com You might want to contactthem = to prepare an order as they make most of their reel seats to order and = their items are also made to order. Their site shows most of their = it's too late for you to get a catlog in time... ----- Original Message ----- Watson's Sent: Tuesday, November 23, = AMSubject: NH Learned people,I will be in the Nashua/Manchester, NH area next = looks like I might get the best part of Saturday free before my flight = vicinity?ThanksTim. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF3595.CECE77A0-- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us Tue Nov 23 12:18:47 1999 23 Nov 99 13:18:28 EST EST consult.co.uk Subject: Re: NH Learned people,I will be in the Nashua/Manchester, NH area next week Are there any good outlets for rodmaking components in the vicinity?ThanksTim. Wow! I have never answered a question on this list before, but I feel qualified to take the reins here. I live and work in the suburbs outside of Boston, MA. Tim and List,REC in CT may be a bit far to travel! Especially considering you have to travel thru Mass. to do it. However, if you want to drive Hunter's Anglers in New Boston, NH 603-487-3388