from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Dec 21 14:51:28 1998 Subject: Re: hexrod challenge In a message dated 12/21/98 6:16:49 PM, you wrote: Carsten - Someone once remarked on the list that they tried it and the rodcame out too soft. I believe the maker did not realize that he needed tolowerthe stresses in a rod this large. This is mentioned, but not really explainedin the last paragraph of the mathematics chapter in Garrison. I guess thestrength/weight relationship goes out of whack in large sections. As tothestress levels appropriate for such a rod, I could only guessI would bet the Para 15 would make a good spey rod taper. If I were goingtotry, I would run The Para taper through hexrod with a lighter line size andget a curve with lower numbers. When you get what you want, extend thecurveto 12 feet, and run again for dimensions. I would try to compare theresultingtaper with some known rods to make sure it looked reasonable. from mauro_carrara@email.msn.com Mon Dec 21 15:09:28 1998 (may be forged)) Microsoft SMTPSVC;Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:08:53 -0800 Subject: Stanley block plane I have been looking for the Stanley G12-020 everywhere I could and Ihaven'tbeen able to find one. The closest I have seen was the G12-060. Also acouple of stores said it is out of production. Does anyone know if this istrue? Does anyone have any advice on where I can find it (either stores oron line... btw I'm in Northern California?) Please feel free to contact meoff the list if you think it is not appropriate to discussthis here. Also, is the G12-060 way too big?Sorry for all these questions at once and thanks in advance to everybody. Merry Christmas to everybody (and Buon Natale to the few Italians on thislist).Mauro. from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Dec 21 16:28:59 1998 Subject: hexrod challenge It occurrs to me that in my earlier answer to Carsten, my thinking capmayhave been improperly adjusted. Rather than run the Para with a lighterline, asimpler method of producing a curve with lower stresses would be to justsubtract a constant ammount from each value, thereby producing the sameresultwith less fuss. It also ocurred to me, however, that this might still not produce theproperaction. It might be that whatever effect is throwing the curve off mightbemore prevalent in the heavier sections of the butt, and less so in the tip.Ifso, then less should be progressively subtracted as the tip is approached,inother words the slope of the curve should be increased. Anyone got anythoughts on this? Carsten, some time ago this taper was posted, It may help give you astartingpoint-- Tom from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Dec 21 16:43:10 1998 Tue, 22 Dec 1998 06:42:46 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: The Lie-Nielsen 9 1/2 On Mon, 21 Dec 1998, Wayne Cattanach wrote: Just got off the phone with Tom - he has just finished the firstbatch of his 9 1/2plane and is shipping for Christmas. The plane is $150 and can be groovedwith a .005 slot foran additional $25. They make excellent stocking stuffers They'd add weight too which is always a good thing when it comes tostockings ;-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Dec 21 16:50:59 1998 via smap (4.1) 15:03:59 PST Subject: Leonard 50 Taper Does anyone have the taper for the Leonard 50 8' three piece 5 wt. taper? I see a two piece version in Franks taper collection, but was looking for the three piece. Thank you. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rcurry@top.monad.net Mon Dec 21 17:05:44 1998 Subject: Re: Stripping varnish Bob,When the varnish is flaky, I use a steel straightedge or a wooden rulerwith a metal insert. Neither of these are sharp and won't damage cane.Stop atthe winds and save them. Any residue may usually be removed with methylHydrate.Best regards,Reed Bob Perry wrote: Just wondering if there is a consensus of maybe the top three methodsforstripping varnish. I removed the guides and I'm able to flake it off withjust a fingernail but this would be very slow going. I heard that using aglass microscope slide may be a way. Does anyone just take the finishoffwith chemicals or abrasives? Thanks, Bob from morten@flash.net Mon Dec 21 17:41:42 1998 Subject: Re: Hexrod - a challenge ? Carsten,I don't know anything about 'hexrod' software, but i have designedseveral graphite two handed rods for the norwegian market (Lovstad RodCo).Modern spey rods do have much in common with parabolic's like the para15. I would put 2-handed rods in 3 categories: 1) Traditional BritishSpey action, slow taper with stiff tips. 2) Fast taper rods, good forover head casting and spey casting shooting heads. 3) Modern (spey)action; fast taper tip, strong mid section and a slow butt section.Several of the most popular 2-handed rods in Norway are of the thirdcategory, such as Loomis IMX 15' and my 13',14' and 15' Lovstad rods.I have not seen any bamboo rods of this consept, but it is veryinterestig, and I'm thinking about making a 12' #8 2 pc. bamboo rodsometime.Best regardsMorten --Morten Lovstad 3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten/index.htm from Turbotrk@aol.com Mon Dec 21 17:51:02 1998 Subject: Re: Stripping varnish I have used Formby's products for years. I have also met the man and knowhimwell. His products are the best I have used with both good results andeaseof use. I would recomend the finish restorer as it will preseve any patinathat may have developed over the years. You can take as much of the oldfinish off as you like and come back with the coating of your choice. Tryit. jmho stuart miller from morten@flash.net Mon Dec 21 19:11:59 1998 Subject: Re: Lie Nielson low angle planes Andy,I,m using the L-N adjustable mouth, low angle plane, and I really likeit. This is the 60 1/2 model, I understand there is a 9 1/2 model in theworks.Morten-- 3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten/index.htm from ragnarig@integrityol.com Mon Dec 21 22:55:34 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A878510256; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 21:04:56 PDT Subject: Re: Hexrod - a challenge ? Dear Morten Many Scandinavians, especially the old-timers, like the Payne rods. Incase anyone was wondering where most of these fine rods have gone... The Payne is a very good place to start. To make the kind of rod you aretalking about, try the 13-footer in George Maurer's book. I don't thinkyou will be far off. This rod will cast overhead very well, though agraphite user will have to learn some finesse. Davy Carsten,I don't know anything about 'hexrod' software, but i have designedseveral graphite two handed rods for the norwegian market (Lovstad RodCo).Modern spey rods do have much in common with parabolic's like the para15. I would put 2-handed rods in 3 categories: 1) Traditional BritishSpey action, slow taper with stiff tips. 2) Fast taper rods, good forover head casting and spey casting shooting heads. 3) Modern (spey)action; fast taper tip, strong mid section and a slow butt section.Several of the most popular 2-handed rods in Norway are of the thirdcategory, such as Loomis IMX 15' and my 13',14' and 15' Lovstad rods.I have not seen any bamboo rods of this consept, but it is veryinterestig, and I'm thinking about making a 12' #8 2 pc. bamboo rodsometime.Best regardsMorten--Morten Lovstad3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten/index.htm from ragnarig@integrityol.com Mon Dec 21 23:01:00 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A9C5840182; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 21:10:29 PDT Subject: Re: Leonard 50 Taper boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003E_01BE2D24.A986AA00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BE2D24.A986AA00 Really, Chris, must you ask? Leonard tapers are of special interest to =me, especially of this length. I'm sure there are others as well. Davy Does anyone have the taper for the Leonard 50 8' three piece 5 wt. = I see a two piece version in Franks taper collection, but was looking = the three piece. Thank you. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BE2D24.A986AA00 Really, Chris, must you = well. taper = ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BE2D24.A986AA00-- from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 21 23:13:18 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Fw: Trout farm fined for illegal fish dumping I know this isn't rodbuilding, but it seems like something of which all listmembers should be aware. I know I would have been tempted to save therainbows, too.(This was sent by the San Jose Flycasters' listserver.) George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Trout farm fined for illegal fish dumping Something you don't see often, thought I'd share it with you. This is outofthe Billings Gazette, today's edition.________________________________________________________________________________ COKEVILLE, Wyo. (AP) - The owner of an Afton trout farm has beenconvictedofillegally stockingpublic waters after dumping approximately 500 rainbow trout into ariver.Scott Carlisle pleaded guilty to illegal fish planting and was ordered topay$2,880 in restitution forexpenses incurred by the Wyoming Game and Fish Department for removalofthetrout, according to arelease.Carlisle was on his way to deliver 500-600 rainbow trout in Evanstonwhenhenoticed a leak in hisfiberglass tank. Fearing the fish were going to die, he dumped the 12- to16-inch trout into the ThomasFork River.The Thomas Fork is managed to protect the Bonneville cutthroat trout,whichislisted as a sensitivespecies by the agency, according to Green River regional fish supervisorRonRemmick."The Game and Fish has worked to improve conditions for the fish so theyremain secure in their nativerange," Remmick said. "The illegal rainbow trout dumped into the riverhasbeen a disappointingdevelopment, and we hope this will not happen again."Illegally stocked fish could be carrying a disease transmittable to thenativetrout, he said. In addition,rainbow trout can hybridize with other trout and also compete with thecutthroat trout.The restitution will cover only part of the agency's costs, according toCokeville game warden NeilHymas."The money paid for restitution does not begin to cover the expensesresulting from disease testing of thecutthroat, law enforcement and any further costs for monitoring thecutthroat," said Hymas.Carlisle was sentenced Dec. 2 in Lincoln County Court.Copyright 1998 Associated Press. from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Mon Dec 21 23:31:12 1998 AAA06393; Subject: Re: Stanley block plane At 01:13 PM 12/21/98 -0800, Mauro Carrara wrote: I have been looking for the Stanley G12-020 everywhere I could and Ihaven'tbeen able to find one. The closest I have seen was the G12-060. Also acouple of stores said it is out of production. Does anyone know if this istrue? Does anyone have any advice on where I can find it (either stores oron line... btw I'm in Northern California?) Please feel free to contact meoff the list if you think it is not appropriate to discussthis here. Also, is the G12-060 way too big?Sorry for all these questions at once and thanks in advance to everybody. Merry Christmas to everybody (and Buon Natale to the few Italians on thislist).Mauro. Hi Mauro, The Stanley 9 1/2 block plane is available from the William Alden toolcompany (1-800-984-4483) for $28.99. If you want to try a lower bladeangle they are selling the #60 for $26.99. I've never ordered from thembut I've heard other people give them good reviews. Later,Johnny----------------------------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Dec 22 00:13:01 1998 (5.5.2232.9) mauro_carrara@email.msn.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Stanley block plane Hi MauroI use a Record 9 1/2 and it works just fine. I have even beentold by some people that it may even be a little better (quality-wise) thanthe Stanley. Hope this helps you out. Merry Christmas & may The Trout Be With You At 01:13 PM 12/21/98 -0800, Mauro Carrara wrote: I have been looking for the Stanley G12-020 everywhere I could and Ihaven'tbeen able to find one. from darrell01@netzero.net Tue Dec 22 00:16:18 1998 0000 (206.175.99.31) Subject: Re[2]: Hexrod - a challenge ? Payne 12 spey rod boundary="=PMail:=_0002@@4bI8n9PI57DKe0kUpT4y" --=PMail:=_0002@@4bI8n9PI57DKe0kUpT4y David, I have a 12 ft spey rod made by ef payne... I'd be happy to give you themeasurements but I've never built a rod from scratch so I'm not sure howto begin, but I do have a mike and if you tell me the method of how youmeasure it, I'd give it a shot. I'm thinking of parting with this fine old Payne rod, it is in very goodcondition but does need a bit of minor work... needs the agate stripperrewrapped. All 4 sections full length and original. What's this fine,fine quality fishing instrument worth these days??? It was sold by A&F:) Darrell ps: I'm resending because I'm trying to see if this makes it on the listserver. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Subject: Re: Hexrod - a challenge ? Dear Morten Many Scandinavians, especially the old-timers, like the Payne rods. =Incase anyone was wondering where most of these fine rods have gone... The Payne is a very good place to start. To make the kind of rod youaretalking about, try the 13-footer in George Maurer's book. I don't thinkyou will be far off. This rod will cast overhead very well, though agraphite user will have to learn some finesse. Davy Carsten,I don't know anything about 'hexrod' software, but i have designedseveral graphite two handed rods for the norwegian market (L=F8vstad RodCo).Modern spey rods do have much in common with parabolic's like the para15. I would put 2-handed rods in 3 categories: 1) Traditional BritishSpey action, slow taper with stiff tips. 2) Fast taper rods, good forover head casting and spey casting shooting heads. 3) Modern (spey)action; fast taper tip, strong mid section and a slow butt section.Several of the most popular 2-handed rods in Norway are of the thirdcategory, such as Loomis IMX 15' and my 13',14' and 15' Lovstad rods.I have not seen any bamboo rods of this consept, but it is veryinterestig, and I'm thinking about making a 12' #8 2 pc. bamboo rodsometime.Best regardsMorten--Morten Lovstad3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten/index.htm --=PMail:=_0002@@4bI8n9PI57DKe0kUpT4y-- ___________________________________________Simplify your holiday shopping...Visit our partners for great holiday gifts.http://www.netzero.net/etoyshttp://www.netzero.net/amazon from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue Dec 22 03:30:31 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Hexrod challenge boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE2D96.B48C7200" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE2D96.B48C7200 Whauw - never dreamed I=B4d get that kind of response. Seems like we =have many potential users for a two handed rod.First of all, let me, too, give some advice: If any of You plan to build =a "classic" salmon rod like a 15 feet # 10, FORGET IT.I have tried such a rod, and except for a Scwarzenegger type, I would =not recommend it - it is simply too heavy. Must admit though, it was and =is the most impressive canerod, I=B4ve ever seen. I had no chance of =taking it to pieces, but I think we=B4re talking doubble building and =hollow building. A rod as described in my first mail, I have tried - a straight taper of =no special charm. Having learned to spey cast, I know what I want from =the rod: A parabolic type, as Tom and others too tuned in on. Tom =pinpointed the difficulties: The values of a stress curve. I agree that =the sheer mass of a rod this long might play havoc with Hexrod, or =rather the rodmaker. Morten=B4s description, I think, is right: Stiff tip and middle section, =with a slow butt piece. Does sound rather paraholic, yes? For all You =non Spey Casters: This cast is like picking up the line, doing a looong =horizontal swing, then raising the rod and do a kind of roll cast. Its =like dancing the Waltz: 1 - 2 - 3 and OMPH, forward You go, all in a =slow, majestic style. George, if You read this: Not all of us are so lucky as to have Your =book. Could You be persuaded to publish that 13 footer taper from Your =book on this list? Darrell Lee has a 12 feet Payne. This too could be a very good starting =point. So Darrell, please mike the rod and inform the list, it will be =appriciated. I guess several listmembers, Yours truly included, would =start calculating the taper in Hexrod. There is work to be done here - = Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE2D96.B48C7200 Whauw - neverdreamed = that kind of response. Seems like we have many potential users for a two= rod.First of all, let me,= advice: If any of You plan to build a "classic" salmon rod = feet # 10, FORGET IT.I have tried such a = Must admit though, it was and is the most impressive canerod, I´ve= seen. I had no chance of taking it to pieces, but I think we´re = doubble building and hollow building. A rod as describedin = I have tried - a straight taper of no special charm. Having learned to = cast, I know what I want from the rod: A parabolic type, as Tom and = tuned in on. Tom pinpointed the difficulties: The values of a stress = agree that the sheer mass of a rod this long might play havoc with = rather the rodmaker. Morten´s description, I think, is= paraholic, yes? For all You non Spey Casters: This cast is like picking = line, doing a looong horizontal swing, then raising the rod and do a = roll cast. Its like dancing the Waltz: 1 - 2 - 3 and OMPH, forward You = in a slow, majestic style. George, if You read this: Not all of us = lucky as to have Your book. Could You be persuaded to publish that 13 = taper from Your book on this list? Darrell Lee has a 12= too could be a very good starting point. So Darrell, please mike the rod = inform the list, it will be appriciated. I guess several listmembers, = truly included, would start calculating the taper in Hexrod. There is = done here - this is an unexplored area. regards, Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE2D96.B48C7200-- from anglport@con2.com Tue Dec 22 05:48:15 1998 Subject: Re: Hexrod challenge All,I think we may have a newly coined term here for the guys who sohighlytout the Ritz/Young philosophy of rod building:I refer of course toCarsten's sentence: "....Does sound rather PARAHOLIC, yes?...".I checkedthe layout of my keyboard and suspect he doesn't deserve ALL the creditforhis term, but as far as I know he IS the first to use it. Any listetymologists out there care to refute this?I hope all have a very happy holiday (and get a chuckle out of myobservation)Art At 10:34 AM 12/22/98 +0100, Carsten Jorgensen wrote:Whauw - never dreamed I´d get that kind of response. Seemslikewe have many potential users for a two handed rod. "" salmon rod like a15feet # 10, FORGET IT. .. regards, Carsten from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Dec 22 07:44:29 1998 Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:42:46 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Hexrod challenge On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Art Port wrote: All,I think we may have a newly coined term here for the guys who sohighlytout the Ritz/Young philosophy of rod building:I refer of course toCarsten's sentence: "....Does sound rather PARAHOLIC, yes?...".I checkedthe layout of my keyboard and suspect he doesn't deserve ALL the creditforhis term, but as far as I know he IS the first to use it. Any listetymologists out there care to refute this?I hope all have a very happy holiday (and get a chuckle out of myobservation)Art I'll second that! Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Tue Dec 22 08:19:19 1998 Subject: Re: Stripping varnish, THANKS Thanks to all the strippers for your help. Just don't tell my wife please. Which method am I gonna use? Hell if I know, too many good suggestions! Happy Holidays, Bob from LambersonW@missouri.edu Tue Dec 22 08:23:03 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: node press? Is the device pictured on page 64 of Gierach's "Fishing Bamboo" a nodepress? Do any of you know its origin or have you seen any like it? Bill Lamberson from LambersonW@missouri.edu Tue Dec 22 08:32:47 1998 (5.5.2232.9) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time Are there other nominees for best tapers. So far I think wehave: Leonard 50DriggsPara 15Sir DYoung MidgeGarrison 212E Surely there are other favorites out there. Or, perhaps 25or 30 really does cover the good ones. Bill Lamberson from anglport@con2.com Tue Dec 22 08:51:48 1998 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: Re: node press? Bill,Sure looks like one to me. Just a dedicated type of vice I think. Never sawthat model before (not even when I read the book, if I remember). Looksslower and less broad in its appeal than a good old- fashionedmetalworkingvice. Now if it had a narrow horizontally opposed set of jaws that youcould close up after the vertical pair were snugged, so you couldstraighten in two dimensions......hmm....Clickety, clickety, click,Art At 08:23 AM 12/22/98 -0600, Lamberson, William R. wrote:Is the device pictured on page 64 of Gierach's "Fishing Bamboo" a nodepress? Do any of you know its origin or have you seen any like it? Bill Lamberson from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Tue Dec 22 10:19:49 1998 Subject: Re: Leonard 50 Taper Chris McDowell wrote: Does anyone have the taper for the Leonard 50 8' three piece 5 wt.taper? I see a two piece version in Franks taper collection, but waslooking for the three piece. Thank you. This relates to a question I was going to ask the list this morning: I was contacted by a spry, wonderful 90-year old gentleman last weekwho was looking for information on a rod he wished to sell. The rod is an 8', 3-piece Leonard, with all sections, including bothtips, full- length, reasonably straight, and sound. Node staggering onall sections is typical Leonard and the color matches, so I assume allare original. The cork grip and butternut cap and ring reel seat areoriginal and in fine condition. Ferrules are original except for themale ferrule on one tip, which is fully functional, but is an obvious,non-matching replacement. The butt ferrule has stamped 1878 patentmarkings, which I believe dates the rod from the mid-20's or earlier. The stripper guide is cream-colored agate(?). The gentleman remembersthat he bought the rod in the 1950's and that it was in poor shapecosmetically. On the advice of someone I am trying to track down, he that is when the non-matching ferrule was replaced. Overall, therefinish is very well-done, with excellent varnish and honey-tanwraps. The guides, however are a bit odd in that the guides on themid are English twist and the guides on both tips are Amrican twist. I read that Leonard used English snake guides during this period; Iassume that the mid guides are rewrapped originals and the tip guidesare replacements. My questions: 1) The gentleman insists that there was an additional alternative"thicker mid-section for boat use" with the rod and that therefinishers used parts from it to complete the refinish work. (Thewhereabouts of the section is unknown.) This makes no sense to me atall, and may be faulty memory. Does anyone know if Leonard made rodswith such sections? 2) from the overall dimensions of the rod I'd guess it was a 5 or 6weight. Does anyone know how to tell whether it is a 50, 50DF, orsome other model I don't know about? (I haven't yet called any otherdealers with this, but I probably will soon.) If there ever were anymarkings on the shaft, there are none now, but there is a ratherdistinctive small series of wraps just above the keeper. 3) What with the refinish (albeit a good one), the replacement ferrule and guides, and the theoretically missing extra mid section,anyone want to make a guess as to value? He is a very nice 90-yearold, and I'd like to see him get what the rod is worth. I can makehim an offer, but I'm not sure my maximum budget amount isappropriate. Sorry about the length of this. With the gentleman's permission, Iwould be happy to measure and post the taper if anyone is interested.(Please note that I only have e-mail at work, and I will be away fromthe office from Thursday until after the holidays, so it may be alittle while.) Thanks very much in advance,Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue Dec 22 10:42:40 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Hexrod & Shortlist All, from LambersonW@missouri.edu Tue Dec 22 13:38:58 1998 (5.5.2232.9) "'dpeaston@wzrd.com'" , SalarFly@aol.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time A PHY Perfectionist has been nominated. Any others? -----Original Message-----From: Lamberson, William R. Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 8:33 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers ofall time Are there other nominees for best tapers.So far I think wehave: Leonard 50DriggsPara 15Sir DYoung MidgeGarrison 212E Surely there are other favorites out there.Or, perhaps 25or 30 really does cover the good ones. Bill Lamberson from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Dec 22 14:52:35 1998 0600 Subject: Re: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time Bill,Interesting that there are no Payne's, no Gillum's, no Dickerson's. Idon'tknow enough to reccomend any of them. The only Dickerson I ever castwasawfully powerful. Never cast a Payne or Gillum. But aren't those the onesthatbring the big bucks on the used rod lists?Also interesting that there's nothing from outside the US.And, Wayne's the only living maker with a taper to make the list. Whatabout other great makers?Where are the high-end mass market rods, like Heddon, Granger,Phillipson? Lamberson, William R. wrote: A PHY Perfectionist has been nominated. Any others? -----Original Message-----From: Lamberson, William R. Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 8:33 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers ofall time Are there other nominees for best tapers.So far I think wehave: Leonard 50DriggsPara 15Sir DYoung MidgeGarrison 212E Surely there are other favorites out there.Or, perhaps 25or 30 really does cover the good ones. Bill Lamberson from gwr@seanet.com Tue Dec 22 15:22:50 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA23661 for; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 Subject: Varnish Ingredients ?? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE2DAE.0EE4FD00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE2DAE.0EE4FD00 About a year ago someone mentioned the name of a firm - perhaps even awebsite - that dealt in the various gums, resins, and oils necessary to mix acustom batch of varnish. If anyone could refresh my memory, I'd certainlyappreciate it. Also, if anyone has the recipe for mixing up spar varnish, that would begreat too. Thanks very much, Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE2DAE.0EE4FD00 name="Golden Witch.vcf" filename="Golden Witch.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden WitchORG:Golden WitchTITLE:Rod Maker &c.TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:noneURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE2DAE.0EE4FD00-- from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Dec 22 15:34:06 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id PAA31936; Tue, 22 Dec (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP id Subject: Re: Varnish Ingredients ?? Here is the original message. Its right here in town with me,but I've never checked them out. Their phone is 414-774-1724.--Frank Stetzer from Ragnarig@aol.com Tue Dec 22 15:30:23 1998 Subject: and another thing Hi again While I'm thinking of it, I also found (wife made me thin out my catalogfile)the address of an outfit that sells components for making your ownvarnish- avery good thing to try, once you've tired of machining reels. WoodFinishing Enterprises1729 North 68th StreetWauwatosa, Wisconsin 53213 They've got every kind of oil, resin, gum, wax, extract and lac you couldeverthink of. And some others, too. Davy On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Golden Witch wrote: About a year ago someone mentioned the name of a firm - perhaps even awebsite - that dealt in the various gums, resins, and oils necessary to mix acustom batch of varnish. If anyone could refresh my memory, I'dcertainlyappreciate it. Also, if anyone has the recipe for mixing up spar varnish, that would begreat too. Thanks very much, Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com from darrell01@netzero.net Tue Dec 22 15:44:59 1998 0000 (209.14.77.88) Subject: Re: Varnish Ingredients ?? boundary="=PMail:=_0003@@659V2TDt5Z4nDWelKsCk" --=PMail:=_0003@@659V2TDt5Z4nDWelKsCk I've found a OLD can of REZ spar varnish... Is there a shelf life forthe stuff? I also bought a can of McCloskey Man o'War Marine sparvarnish.= Any feedback on these spar varnishes. I intend to strip and revarnish a Heddon rod. Was spar varnish the original= finish? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Subject: Varnish Ingredients ?? About a year ago someone mentioned the name of a firm - perhaps even awebsite - that dealt in the various gums, resins, and oils necessary to mixacustom batch of varnish. If anyone could refresh my memory, I'd certainlyappreciate it. Also, if anyone has the recipe for mixing up spar varnish, that wouldbegreat too. Thanks very much, Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com --=PMail:=_0003@@659V2TDt5Z4nDWelKsCk-- ___________________________________________Simplify your holiday shopping...Visit our partners for great holiday gifts.http://www.netzero.net/etoyshttp://www.netzero.net/amazon from drinkr@voicenet.com Tue Dec 22 16:57:39 1998 0000 (207.103.143.40) Subject: Craftsman Lathe for Christmas? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE2DD3.AF70B0A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE2DD3.AF70B0A0 I have located a Craftsman Model 101 metal lathe in Philadelphia area. Itappears to be in mint condition. My secretary was cleaning out her familyhome and came upon this. It is loaded with cutters and peripherals.Contact me off list if you need further details. Thanks, Dave Rinker ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE2DD3.AF70B0A0 ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE2DD3.AF70B0A0-- from ragnarig@integrityol.com Tue Dec 22 17:31:00 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id ADD8118010A; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 15:40:08 PDT Subject: Re: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time A PHY Perfectionist has been nominated. Any others? How about the Hardy C.C. de France or the Tarantino model. Surely, we're not going to leave out the Payne 200.Maybe the Young Midge?What about Wes Jordan? I'm thinking of the Cross Bataviakill, maybe the8-footer.The F.E. Thomas light trout Browntone?I haven't heard anything about big rods- like salmon/spey tapers. I think our minds are too occupied with Christmas. Davy from lblan@provide.net Tue Dec 22 17:37:16 1998 Subject: Re: Roll your own varnish I think this was the other source posted... http://www.sinopia.com/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Dec 22 19:05:14 1998 (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:04:48 -0500 Subject: Re: glue for nodeless rods Don't know if you have access to the internet...I assume you do, buttheinformation you are looking for is on the rodmakers web page. There isagreat adhesives FAQ by John Zimny and I don't believe anyone would like tore-type it. If you don't have access I will be more than happy to copy itinto an e-mail. There is a lot of information at the site for newrodmakers. Most of us couldn't have made it through without it.-----Original Message----- Subject: glue for nodeless rods Thank you all for giving me the source for titebondII. I understand thatthere is also a second type of glue which I need to glued up the taperedsection and that is different from titebondII. Would anybody have thesource for this glue as well?. Thanks.Andy from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Dec 22 19:31:05 1998 TAA26346 Subject: Re: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time Harry Boyd wrote: Bill,Interesting that there are no Payne's, no Gillum's, no Dickerson's. Idon'tknow enough to reccomend any of them. The only Dickerson I ever castwasawfully powerful. Never cast a Payne or Gillum. But aren't those theones thatbring the big bucks on the used rod lists?Also interesting that there's nothing from outside the US.And, Wayne's the only living maker with a taper to make the list. Whatabout other great makers?Where are the high-end mass market rods, like Heddon, Granger,Phillipson? Like Harry, I don't have enough expertise to make nominations on my own.I did read an article by Tom Maxwell in a 1978 issue of Fly Fishermanmagazine where he stated that "he had never cast a Granger Special thathe didn't think was a good rod". There might be a little paraphrasingthere but that was the gist of the statement. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from fiveside@net-gate.com Tue Dec 22 19:34:43 1998 (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA24300 for ;Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:35:11 Subject: Fivers, Quads and the 25 To Rich and the List,Am taking the liberty of answering on the list because this may be ofgeneral interest. Rich Margiotta asked about scarfing a splice on a 5-sider.Previously I had spent considerable time looking at the problem ofdesigninga penta scarfing block and got nowhere. I seem to recall talking to GeorgeBarnes about it with no real conclusions. Maybe too much cheeze and beer.Atthe moment it seems a problem with no solution. Any help out there?Rich also asked about the conversion of Garrison's 204E to a penta (viaequal stress curves). The fiver is definitely quicker. For my fishing thisis the ultimate rod, challenged only by Zimny's quad taper (disclaimer - nocommercial interest) That brings up a question: are quad and penta tapers candidates for themagic 25? Bill from anglport@con2.com Tue Dec 22 19:51:47 1998 "Rodmakers@Wugate. Wustl. Edu" Subject: Re: Roll your own varnish I don't know if this was from the list or I found it surfing. I have nopersonal knowledge of their quality; just another place to look.Art http://www.intool.com/swelles.htm At 06:37 PM 12/22/98 -0500, Larry Blan wrote:I think this was the other source posted... http://www.sinopia.com/ from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Dec 22 21:00:49 1998 Subject: Re: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time In a message dated 12/22/98 5:36:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,saltwein@swbell.net writes: "he had never cast a Granger Special thathe didn't think was a good rod". Well...I've cast a couple, and I don't really like them. I think it mightjust be me, although I have handed it to a few people andwatched them cast it also. Same result as when I castthem - tailing loops. I'm not a great caster, but I really haveto watch my Ps and Qs when I cast a Granger Special notto get a tailing loop. Darryl from channer@hubwest.com Tue Dec 22 21:41:15 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A6C8410013C; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:43:04 MST Subject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time At 01:38 PM 12/22/98 -0600, Lamberson, William R. wrote:A PHY Perfectionist has been nominated. Any others? Bill;I will second or deny in about a week or so when I finish wrapping theguides on the Perfectionist I have under way right now. John from channer@hubwest.com Tue Dec 22 21:41:24 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A6D1411013C; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:43:13 MST Subject: Re: Varnish Ingredients ?? At 01:45 PM 12/22/98, Darrell Lee wrote:I've found a OLD can of REZ spar varnish... Is there a shelf life forthe stuff? I also bought a can of McCloskey Man o'War Marine sparvarnish.Any feedback on these spar varnishes. I intend to strip and revarnish a Heddon rod. Was spar varnish the originalfinish? Darrell;I use Man-O-War and I like it a lot. It dips nicely and you can polish outany flaws that might get in it. Heddon used spar varnish, but I don't knowwhat brand, not that it matters that much, even if it was still available,the formula will be different. John from darrell01@netzero.net Tue Dec 22 22:09:19 1998 0000 (206.175.192.35) Subject: Help! Looking for Granger Lime Green Silk Thread... boundary="=PMail:=_0006@@q0Eo6xfq12SGPpEmlrhX" --=PMail:=_0006@@q0Eo6xfq12SGPpEmlrhX Tried REC, Anglers workshop, Gudebrod, Bob Marriots and several otherretail establishments... Anybody out there hoarding a spool they would be willing to part with?I need to do a few guide rewraps and I'd hate to have to deviate fromthe original color... A 1/4 roll would be plenty... = Desperately Seeking Silk... Darrell Lee --=PMail:=_0006@@q0Eo6xfq12SGPpEmlrhX-- ___________________________________________Simplify your holiday shopping...Visit our partners for great holiday gifts.http://www.netzero.net/etoyshttp://www.netzero.net/amazon from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Dec 22 22:35:01 1998 Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:34:35 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Hexrod & Shortlist wugate.wustl.edu id WAA29317 On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, [iso-8859-1] Carsten Jorgensen wrote: All, Art`n allAnd there I was, thinking Tony invented the word PARAHOLIC. Well, wellif itcant be any different. BTW the initials PHY stands for - Yes, You're right:Para Holic Young......... Come to think of it, I think I did come up with the term but Carsten usesit with more style so it's his. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Dec 22 22:55:22 1998 Subject: Re: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time boundary="------------349DEAB50FEE0EA5AB3171F3" --------------349DEAB50FEE0EA5AB3171F3 Bill, Please also include the taper we all fell in love with at Grayrock'98, 6'6', 2 piece 3wt. by Fred Kretchman. Best regards,Reed "Lamberson, William R." wrote: Are there other nominees for best tapers. So far I think wehave: Leonard 50DriggsPara 15Sir DYoung MidgeGarrison 212E Surely there are other favorites out there. Or, perhaps 25or 30 really does cover the good ones. Bill Lamberson --------------349DEAB50FEE0EA5AB3171F3 Bill,Please also include the taper we all fell in love with atGrayrock'98, 6'6', 2 piece 3wt. by Fred Kretchman.Best regards,Reed "Lamberson, William R." wrote: have: Leonard 50 Driggs Para 15 Sir D Young Midge Garrison 212E or 30 really does cover the good ones. Bill Lamberson --------------349DEAB50FEE0EA5AB3171F3-- from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Dec 22 23:11:35 1998 Subject: Re: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time Bill, Please also include the taper we all fell in love with at Grayrock'98, 6'6', 2 piece 3wt. by Fred Kretchman. Best regards,Reed "Lamberson, William R." wrote: Are there other nominees for best tapers. So far Ithink wehave: Leonard 50DriggsPara 15Sir DYoung MidgeGarrison 212E Surely there are other favorites out there. Or,perhaps 25or 30 really does cover the good ones. Bill Lamberson from m.boretti@agonet.it Wed Dec 23 05:17:46 1998 +0900 Subject: VACATION DEAR FRIENDS,I GO TO THE VACATION from 24 DECEMBER TO 4 JANUARY.I SEND MY BEST WISHES FOR A MERRY CHRISTMAS, HAPPY NEW YEARS, ANDA VERYNICE SEASON ANGLER 1999. Marco Boretti. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Dec 23 07:16:36 1998 216.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: Block plane adjustment BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_m2VSo2CgikUHz41n+mb7tA)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_m2VSo2CgikUHz41n+mb7tA) I'm presently planing my first rod using a Record 9 1/2 block plane. I knowlittle about block plane adjustments. The books seem to speak ofcontrollingthe size of the shaving by opening or closing the throat of the plane. Whatabout the depth of the blade? How far below the bottom of the planeshouldit protrude? Should that change from rough planing to final planing or do Itry to keep the blade sticking out by the same amount at all times? Thanks in advance, Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 --Boundary_(ID_m2VSo2CgikUHz41n+mb7tA) presently planing my first rod using a Record 9 1/2 block plane. I know = about block plane adjustments. The books seem to speak of controlling = of the shaving by opening or closing the throat of the plane. What about = depth of the blade? How far below the bottom of the plane should it = Should that change from rough planing to final planing or do I try to = blade sticking out by the same amount at all times? in advance, Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 --Boundary_(ID_m2VSo2CgikUHz41n+mb7tA)-- from Canerods@aol.com Wed Dec 23 08:55:12 1998 Subject: Re: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time In a message dated 12/22/98 5:36:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,saltwein@swbell.net writes: Also interesting that there's nothing from outside the US. A 6'2-1/4" Norm Thompson (Made by Farlows in Aberdeen, Scotland) 4/5wt. (2piece) It's the only non-USA made rod that I've ever cast. Qualifies in aspecial category - "as only the English would do" rod taper due to itsdown- to-the-nearest "1/4 inch" measurement. (Sorry John Cooper, Davy et al - justjoking ) But it does cover up a lot of my casting "style" mistakes and"feels right" in the hand. Where are the high-end mass market rods, like Heddon, Granger, Phillipson? The 9' Heddon 2-3/4F (7/8 wt) (3 piece) is a powerful rod and is maybeworthyof consideration. I had a Model 14 rod in that taper that would cast a WF8line into the neighbor's backyard (Note: CA size lots - so 60' plus casts)with total ease and great line loops. The fellow that bought it took it toOregon for steelhead fishing. Don Burns from ragnarig@integrityol.com Wed Dec 23 09:10:34 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AA3814B01A8; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 07:20:24 PDT Subject: Re: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004B_01BE2E42.F802B9C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BE2E42.F802B9C0 Dear ReedI made a discovery about this particular taper while doing some =research for a midge rod I built recently. If you compare Mr. =Kretchman's taper with the Young Midge you'll see he knows where to go = hesitated as I thought it might be construed as criticism. And, hey, = wisdom as the Youngs. Maybe this is just an example of "Gierach's =Axiom" :-)DavyPlease also include the taper we all fell in love with at = Reed Are there other nominees for best tapers. So = Surely there are other favorites out there. Or, = Bill Lamberson ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BE2E42.F802B9C0 Reed made a discovery about this particular taper while doing some = taper with the Young Midge you'll see he knows where to go for his = I know he came up with it by the same sheer innate physical wisdom = Axiom" :-)DavyPlease also include the taper we all fell in love with = Best regards, Reed = = = = = = = = Bill Lamberson ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BE2E42.F802B9C0-- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Dec 23 09:11:03 1998 Wed, 23 Dec 1998 23:10:16 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Block plane adjustment Richard,the depth of cut and width of the opening are related. When you plane theplane iron parts the material and lifts it upward just as a chisel would.The mouth of the plane allows this lifted material to ender the plane andbreak the fiber between the cutting edge of the iron and the mouth. Sowhat you're aiming for is to adjust the mouth so it allows only thethickness of the cane to pass through depending upon the depth of the cut.This way the cane will be curled as soon as it enters the mouth ratherthan split along the gap in the mouth if it is set too wide.It's easier to imagine it if you enlarge the whole thing by imaginingusing a chisel to part wood along the grain. It'll split in long shards ifyou take too much unless you can control the lifing wood. This is what theplane is in fact doing. Tony On Wed, 23 Dec 1998, Richard Nantel wrote: I'm presently planing my first rod using a Record 9 1/2 block plane. Iknowlittle about block plane adjustments. The books seem to speak ofcontrollingthe size of the shaving by opening or closing the throat of the plane.Whatabout the depth of the blade? How far below the bottom of the planeshouldit protrude? Should that change from rough planing to final planing or doItry to keep the blade sticking out by the same amount at all times? Thanks in advance, Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from LambersonW@missouri.edu Wed Dec 23 09:16:57 1998 (5.5.2232.9) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time Several additional rods have been nominated. The list now includes: DriggsPara 15 Sir DYoung MidgeYoung PerfectionistGarrison 212EGarrison 221Leonard 50Leonard 38H 7' #4Payne 200Granger SpecialCross BataviakillCross SylphF. E. Thomas Browntone Light TroutWinston 8' #7Orvis FleaHardy C. C. deFrance or TarantinoKretchman 6' 6" #3Heddon Model 14 9' 2 * F 3 pc # 7/8Farlow made Norm Thompson 6' 2 *" 2 pc # 4/5 If I have overlooked any nominees let me know. We still have room formorenominees before we get to 25. Bill Lamberson from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Dec 23 09:28:22 1998 Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:25:47 -0600 Subject: Re: Block plane adjustment D767C124F126FB55461C6ECB" --------------D767C124F126FB55461C6ECB Richard,I like to think that the size of the shaving is controlled by theamount of blade which protrudes below the sole, and the tendency to tearout at nodes and other mis-shapen places is prevented by a fine gapbetween the throat and the blade.Try this on a scrap piece: Open the throat wide, and adjust theblade back into the body of the plane until it will not take a shavingat all. Then, adjust the blade out until you get a shaving of.003-.005" -- Finally, Close the throat of the plane to within .010" orless of the blade. I don't know how to measure this. Just "eyeballit", down to a tiny sliver.Keep practicing on scrap pieces of cane, and within an hour or soyou should have a basic understanding of how your plane works best.Good luck,Harry Boyd snipped shaving by opening or closing the throat of the plane. What about thedepth of the blade? How far below the bottom of the plane should itprotrude? hould that change from rough planing to final planing or doI try to keep the blade sticking out by the same amount at all times?Snipped Richard, controlled by the amount of blade which protrudes below the sole, and thetendency to tear out at nodes and other mis-shapen places is prevented wide, and adjust the blade back into the body of the plane until it will a shaving of .003-.005" -- Finally, Close the throat of the plane to within Just "eyeball it", down to a tiny sliver. withinan hour or so you should have a basic understanding of how your planeworksbest.Good luck,Harry Boyd snipped<Thebooks seem to speak of controlling the size of the shaving by opening orclosing the throat of the plane. What about the depth of the blade? Howfar below the bottom of the plane should it protrude? hould that change from rough planing to final planing or do I try to keep the blade stickingout by the same amount at all times?Snipped< --------------D767C124F126FB55461C6ECB-- from cmj@post11.tele.dk Wed Dec 23 10:11:01 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:10:51 +0100 "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Sv: Block plane adjustment boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01BE2E97.D2F40760" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BE2E97.D2F40760 <I'm presently planing my first rod using a Record 9 1/2 = plane. I know little about block plane adjustments. The <books = speak of controlling the size of the shaving by opening or closing = throat of the plane. What about the <depth of the blade? How far = the bottom of the plane should it protrude? Should that change from = planing to <final planing or do I try to keep the blade sticking = the same amount at all times? Richard Start by tuning = is a link on Rodmakers to a page telling You how to do this. Even = Your plane is brand new, it needs tuning. Do it before You go any = with the planing. Secondly, theblade = SHARP, and I mean sharp as in razor blade. Doing the rough = can be thick, lets say about 1/100 of an inch or more. As You = final taper, adjust the plane to take fine shavings. When doing the = shavings I am down to 1/1000 of an inch. Yes I mean a =1/1000. You´ll = many times during the planing of a rod. Omitting this will = to making faulthy strips. Trick of the trade: Give the sole of the = few cross strokes with a candle light from time to time. It´ll = the plane slide much easier. I use a smallblock = the 9 1/2, for rough planing only. For middle and final planing I = large block plane of the kind that needs to be held with both hands. = heavy, which means it is more stable, plus it is easier to control = both hands. Like 99% of the rodmakers on this list I started using a = but was taught how to use the big plane by a cabinet maker/rodmaker, = pro. When using the = make the stroke by stretcing Your arm. When using the big plane You = into the stroke with Your whole body - a kind of swaying. This = "wobbling" sideways and makes a more precise and = stroke, IMHO. This "wobbling" plus the lessened ability to = long, smoooth stroke is the greatest disadvantage of the small = my 0.02 cents. regards, Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BE2E97.D2F40760-- from ragnarig@integrityol.com Wed Dec 23 10:47:52 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A10B1550168; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 08:57:47 PDT Subject: Fw: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time Hey Folks, Let us not forget Merritt Hawes of Parker-Hawes rods. His 9ft 3pc 6wghtisan amazing rod. Merritt's rods were fast tournament actions. And my Mike Clark 8ft 2pc 6wght -- a great western action, perfect forAlberta. Lots of backbone as Mike would say. And the Leonard model 50 1/2, a 8 1/2ft 3pc 5wght -- a perfectgrayling,bluegill (if we had any in Alberta)rod. My 50 1/2 casts itself, all youhave to do is hold it - it is the only rod that has ever done that for me. from darrell01@netzero.net Wed Dec 23 10:49:44 1998 0000 (199.174.227.106) Subject: Rod Polish recommendations boundary="=PMail:=_0003@@ps0YX8WSfdwGn7RaRn9i" --=PMail:=_0003@@ps0YX8WSfdwGn7RaRn9i No Polish jokes please... I'm looking for recommendations for polish for refinishing a few rods.Sinclairs book recommended Brownells, haven't been able to find it thusfar... = Any other recommendations? --=PMail:=_0003@@ps0YX8WSfdwGn7RaRn9i-- ___________________________________________Simplify your holiday shopping...Visit our partners for great holiday gifts.http://www.netzero.net/etoyshttp://www.netzero.net/amazon from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Dec 23 11:03:30 1998 (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:03:03 -0500 Subject: Short Tapers Was curious if anyone out there had tapers for short one piecerods....under 5'5"? I am making A.J's 4'4" and would like to compare a few.Take care, and best wishes over the holidays! from LambersonW@missouri.edu Wed Dec 23 11:06:28 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time -----Original Message-----From: Lamberson, William R. Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 9:17 AM Subject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers ofall time Several additional rods have been nominated. The list nowincludes: DriggsPara 15 Sir DYoung MidgeYoung PerfectionistGarrison 212EGarrison 221Leonard 50Leonard 38H 7' #4Payne 200Granger SpecialCross BataviakillCross SylphF. E. Thomas Browntone Light TroutWinston 8' #7Orvis FleaHardy C. C. deFrance or TarantinoKretchman 6' 6" #3Heddon Model 14 9' 2 * F 3 pc # 7/8Farlow made Norm Thompson 6' 2 *" 2 pc # 4/5Parker- Hawes 9ft 3pc 6wghtLeonard model 50 1/2, a 8 1/2ft 3pc 5wghtMike Clark 8ft 2pc 6wght If I have overlooked any nominees let me know. We stillhave room for morenominees before we get to 25. Bill Lamberson from rmoon@ida.net Wed Dec 23 11:36:43 1998 "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Sv: Block plane adjustment Carsten I think that your analysis of using a larger plane is correct. Justwondering, though, how youhold the strip without three hands. Ralph from arnold.jl@pg.com Wed Dec 23 11:36:56 1998 1998)) id852566E3.0060BC57 ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:36:36 -0500 Subject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time Boundary="0__=bZYDm1EKSKgujojeQsY3s50iXiVBuP21lwnaHGHNqklWdkHfKRwWmfDx" --0__=bZYDm1EKSKgujojeQsY3s50iXiVBuP21lwnaHGHNqklWdkHfKRwWmfDx Is this list going to be used to generate a page of taper dimensions? Or isthis just for everyone's general information. Jeff 12:06PM Please respond to lambersonw@missouri.edu Subject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time --0__=bZYDm1EKSKgujojeQsY3s50iXiVBuP21lwnaHGHNqklWdkHfKRwWmfDx -----Original Message-----From: Lamberson, William R. Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 9:17 AM Subject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers ofall time Several additional rods have been nominated. The list nowincludes: DriggsPara 15Sir DYoung MidgeYoung PerfectionistGarrison 212EGarrison 221Leonard 50Leonard 38H 7' #4Payne 200Granger SpecialCross BataviakillCross SylphF. E. Thomas Browntone Light TroutWinston 8' #7Orvis FleaHardy C. C. deFrance or TarantinoKretchman 6' 6" #3Heddon Model 14 9' 2 =BE F 3 pc # 7/8Farlow made Norm Thompson 6' 2 =BC" 2 pc # 4/5Parker- Hawes 9ft 3pc 6wghtLeonard model 50 1/2, a 8 1/2ft 3pc 5wghtMike Clark 8ft 2pc 6wght If I have overlooked any nominees let me know. We stillhave room for morenominees before we get to 25. Bill Lamberson = --0__=bZYDm1EKSKgujojeQsY3s50iXiVBuP21lwnaHGHNqklWdkHfKRwWmfDx-- from trout@ricochet.net Wed Dec 23 11:47:01 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Polish recommendations mac-creator="4D4F5353" Brownells is a gunsmith supply house that publishes a great catalog forthetool addicted. The catalog is huge and costs $3.75 (refundable on thefirst order). Their address is: Brownells, Inc.Dept. 016200 South Front StreetMontezuma, IA 50171 Phone: 515-623-5401FAX: 515-623-3896 Darrell Lee wrote: No Polish jokes please... I'm looking for recommendations for polish for refinishing a few rods.Sinclairs book recommended Brownells, haven't been able to find it thusfar...Any other recommendations? from dmanders@telusplanet.net Wed Dec 23 12:06:58 1998 don") by eeyore.eon.netwith SMTP id ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:06:40 -0700 Subject: 25 or 30 best tapers of all time Guys, When I asked the question, I must admit I didn't put a lot of thought intojust how this information might be presented or used.Several things are becoming rapidly apparent - few contemporaryrodmakershave their tapers listed here. There maybe a lot of reasons for this but Iexpect it has much to due with the makers exposure to others. Also a lotofbuilders do very few rods each year so the circulation can't be wide. Iwould hate to think that we are missing out some excellent tapers. Doesanyone have any suggestions of how this could be remedied? I, like others,have developed tapers. Whether they are worthy of consideration may restonly with me. However, I would feel that I shouldn't present such a taperas one of the 25 best. What suits me may not suit the rest. Or maybe Ishould be just pig-headed enough to believe my tapers are the end andbe-all of tapers and list them here indescribably. That surely wouldn'thelp the cause of determining best tapers but would certainly swell thehead of the poster.HELP!!!! After the list is developed - perhaps we could approach the personsponsoring the taper and have him provide some details about the taper. Just some thoughts, DonAll the best of the Season from trout@ricochet.net Wed Dec 23 12:16:46 1998 Subject: Re: The twenty or thiry best tapers of all time mac-creator="4D4F5353" The Dawn Holbrook 8.5' tapers for a #7 or #8 lines are my choice whenI'm casting large flies in Alaska or the Northwest. Of course, theWinston and Powell tapers in this class (steelhead rods) are also topnotch and the tapers that Winston used for its little feller (did Imisspell that correctly) series of light rods are great for playinglarge fish on light tackle. Rob Nielsen from wgray@uidaho.edu Wed Dec 23 12:25:54 1998 Dec 1998 18:25:47 UT Subject: 25 Best Tapers/Rods How you classify these rods should depend on what the original thought was in developing the "List" IMHO there are several options. One is to have Classic (have been around 25 years or more) and Modern (relatively newer) rods/tapers. Using that approach there might be two lists. Another approach is to have one list of all time favorites regardless of how new or old. A second issue is how to "qualify" rods for the list. General democracy or each nominate our favorites or ??? Personally I haven't had the opportunity to cast any of the nominees so wouldn't know if I agree or not on the selection. Should a panel of top casting persons be set up to all cast and rate nominated rods every so often, perhaps in conjunction with an FFF conclave or Greyrock or other such gathering? My 2 cents, what are others thoughts??? from ragnarig@integrityol.com Wed Dec 23 13:05:06 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A13414F01D2; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:15:00 PDT Subject: Database, was The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00BB_01BE2E63.BA7AC2C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00BB_01BE2E63.BA7AC2C0 Although the following is overly long for Internet consumption, I would =tell you that there is some sex, and political controversy. You know, something needs to be done regarding tapers. We are getting =a lot of great suggestions for the "Top-25 List" but, at least in many =cases, we don't know what they mean. For example: terms like "Thomas =Browntone" and "Granger Victory" say much less about the taper than they=do about the colors and fittings- or even the historical context in =which they were produced. In some cases the maker gave a designation = We need to have a comprehensive database, or library or whatever you =wish to call it, so that people can contribute tapers and other =pertinent information which can then be studied and compared to other =descriptions, definitions and data. Since we've now got the Internet, =we'd be nuts if we didn't take the opportunity to do this, now that it =won't take forever to verify and correct information. suggestions I make are in no way critical of the wonderful efforts which =have been made by those will understand if I don't mention their names = next time we meet. But I don't think we can reasonably expect one or =two guys to measure, collect, catalogue and keep for display every =taper, stress curve and description of every rod that somebody thinks is =worth recording for posterity. If further quantities of information =could be added or linked to the existing archives, this could be a good =way to go. I can imagine there might be those who would balk at the idea for =numerous reasons: There might be someone who is ambitiously attempting=such a thing for profitable publication and would resent being ="undercut"; Some may have existing or projected works which include =tapers or other information as selling points for their books; And of =course anybody with any sense must realise some of the organizational =difficulties involved with such a project. Although we need to keep =these, and many other, potential problems in mind, there isn't any =reason I know which should stop us from proceeding. I'm entitled to some website space from my server and we could use that=until I have to get a job and possibly move, at which time I could move =it to my new server. We may be talking about potentially much more =than I or any one person would be able to handle, in which case the bits =and bytes could be divvied up and spread around to others who could be =easily linked together. I'm talking about a real library here, not the ="Reader's Digest" version. It could even be organized as a network of =collections which could have a central "catalogue" from which to start =one's search. At some point we might even add photos- or scale =drawings at least- of wrapping patterns, ferrules, grips etc. Nobody's=about to write a book of the scale and scope of what I'm suggesting. And while I seem to be volunteering (I should know better by now) I'm =aware there are many who know far more about all the subjects involved =than I ever will. Aside from contributing some space, I can offer the =loan a micrometer and an explanation of how to use it. In fact, if =anyone has a really cool rod and hasn't the vaguest notion of how to = To those who have managed to read this far without dozing off (I've done =so twice) I would welcome any criticism, advice or assistance you would=offer. I just want this to happen, for all our good and the benefit of =those who come along later. Oh, I almost forgot: I was just looking out the window and my =neighbor's dog is shagging hell out of the cat. One of them's a Whig =and the other is a Republican, though I've forgotten which is which. =Well, I promised. Davy clipped:Several additional rods have been nominated. The list nowincludes: Driggs Sir DYoung MidgeYoung PerfectionistGarrison 212EGarrison 221Leonard 50Leonard 38H 7' #4Payne 200Granger SpecialCross BataviakillCross SylphF. E. Thomas Browntone Light TroutWinston 8' #7Orvis FleaHardy C. C. deFrance or TarantinoKretchman 6' 6" #3Heddon Model 14 9' 2 =BE F 3 pc # 7/8Farlow made Norm Thompson 6' 2 =BC" 2 pc # 4/5Parker-Hawes 9ft 3pc 6wghtLeonard model 50 1/2, a 8 1/2ft 3pc 5wghtMike Clark 8ft 2pc 6wght If I have overlooked any nominees let me know. We stillhave room for morenominees before we get to 25. Bill Lamberson ------=_NextPart_000_00BB_01BE2E63.BA7AC2C0 Although = overly long for Internet consumption, I would tell you that there is = and political controversy.You know, something needs to be done regarding = are getting a lot of great suggestions for the "Top-25 List" = terms like "Thomas Browntone" and "GrangerVictory" = less about the taper than they do about the colors and fittings- or even = maker gave a designation which indicated taper but in many cases he We need to have a comprehensive database, or library or whatever = to call it, so that people can contribute tapers and other pertinent = which can then be studied and compared to other descriptions, = take the opportunity to do this, now that it won't take forever to = correct information. make are in no way critical of the wonderful efforts which have been = those will understand if I don't mention their names for fear of = important ones who may be big enough to whup me next time we = But I don't think we can reasonably expect one or two guys to measure, = catalogue and keep for display every taper, stress curve and description = or linked to the existing archives, this could be a good way to =go. I can imagine there might be those who would balk at the idea for = such = Some may have existing or projected works which include tapers or any sense must realise some of the organizational difficulties involved = potential problems in mind, there isn't any reason I know which should = from proceeding. I'm entitled to some website space from my server and we could use= until I have to get a job and possibly move, at which time I could move = any one person would be able to handle, in which case the bits and bytes = photos- or scale drawings at least- of wrapping patterns, ferrules, = I'm suggesting. And while I seem to be volunteering (I should know better by now) = there are many who know far more about all the subjects = has a really cool rod and hasn't the vaguest notion of how to measure = To those who have managed to read this far without dozing off (I've = of those who come along later. = and the other is a Republican, though I've forgotten which is = Well, I promised. Davyclipped: nowincludes:DriggsPara 15 Sir DYoung = PerfectionistGarrison 212EGarrison 221Leonard50Leonard = #4Payne 200Granger SpecialCross BataviakillCross = Thomas Browntone Light TroutWinston 8' #7Orvis FleaHardyC. = deFrance or TarantinoKretchman 6' 6" #3Heddon Model 14 9'2 = ¾ F 3 pc # 7/8Farlow made Norm Thompson 6' 2¼" 2 = 4/5Parker-Hawes 9ft 3pc 6wghtLeonard model 50 1/2, a 8 1/2ft= 5wghtMike Clark 8ft 2pc 6wghtIf I have overlooked any = get = 25.Bill Lamberson ------=_NextPart_000_00BB_01BE2E63.BA7AC2C0-- from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Wed Dec 23 13:08:25 1998 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0067_01BE2EA7.77485DC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BE2EA7.77485DC0 review rodmakers ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BE2EA7.77485DC0 review =rodmakers ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BE2EA7.77485DC0-- from LambersonW@missouri.edu Wed Dec 23 13:17:57 1998 (5.5.2232.9) "'Canerods@aol.com'" ,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time -----Original Message-----From: Lamberson, William R. Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 9:17 AM Subject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers ofall time Several additional rods have been nominated. The list nowincludes:DriggsPara 15 Sir DYoung MidgeYoung PerfectionistGarrison 212EGarrison 221Leonard 50Leonard 38H 7' #4Payne 200Granger SpecialCross BataviakillCross SylphF. E. Thomas Browntone Light TroutOrvis FleaHardy C. C. deFrance or TarantinoKretchman 6' 6" #3Heddon Model 14 9' 2 * F 3 pc # 7/8Farlow made Norm Thompson 6' 2 *" 2 pc # 4/5Dawn Holbrook 8.5' tapers for a #7 or #8 linesThramer 6' 472DxWinston Little FellerWinston 8' #7 If I have overlooked any nominees let me know. We stillhave room for more nominees before we get to 25.Bill Lamberson from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Wed Dec 23 13:28:03 1998 OAA08710 Subject: subscibe Al Hanzich732-878-6567 from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Dec 23 14:34:07 1998 216.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time What would be most helpful for those many of us who have never casttheserods would be some type of description of their action (parabolic, etc).That way, the next time we want to build, say, a fast action 4 wt, we'llknow where to start looking. Could the final list be broken down into suchbroad categories by some of you experts? Thanks Richard -----Original Message----- WilliamR. rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time -----Original Message-----From: Lamberson, William R. Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 9:17 AM Subject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers ofall time Several additional rods have been nominated. The list nowincludes:DriggsPara 15Sir DYoung MidgeYoung PerfectionistGarrison 212EGarrison 221Leonard 50Leonard 38H 7' #4Payne 200Granger SpecialCross BataviakillCross SylphF. E. Thomas Browntone Light TroutOrvis FleaHardy C. C. deFrance or TarantinoKretchman 6' 6" #3Heddon Model 14 9' 2 * F 3 pc # 7/8Farlow made Norm Thompson 6' 2 *" 2 pc # 4/5Dawn Holbrook 8.5' tapers for a #7 or #8 linesThramer 6' 472DxWinston Little FellerWinston 8' #7 If I have overlooked any nominees let me know. We stillhave room for more nominees before we get to 25.Bill Lamberson from mevans@acxiom.com Wed Dec 23 15:21:56 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: Maurer or Howell? I'd like to pick up another book to use in addition to Wayne's as I'm gettingstarted. I wasthinking of getting one of the more recent works like Maurer or Howell. Iwould greatlyappreciate the recommendations from some folks on the list. Could I askthe favor of some"IMHOs" on these books? I have yet to split my first culm so I'm looking reference that includes equipment set up, etc. TIA,Mark Evans from Canerods@aol.com Wed Dec 23 15:34:45 1998 Subject: Re: Database, was The twenty five or thirty best tapers of alltime In a message dated 12/23/98 11:06:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,ragnarig@integrityol.com writes: Heddon Model 14 9' 2 * F 3 pc # 7/8 Doesn't need to be a Model 14. A model 35 2-3/4F would most likely be the same taper in many different models - all differed in only # of guides andbells & whistles. (including cane quality levels) All 2-3/4F rods used the same taper. So a Model 8 through Model 1000 (inthe 2-3/4F taper) would cast the same. (IMHO) Sorry for the confusion, Don Burns from cmj@post11.tele.dk Wed Dec 23 16:03:53 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time from stpete@netten.net Wed Dec 23 16:08:24 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA22118; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:08:20 -0600 Subject: Re: Maurer or Howell? Mark, I have Howell's book. It is very nice, but aside from some tapers andgood descriptions of how to build roughing forms and other tools for thecompletely inept, it doesn't have any more useable info than Wayne'sbook. I'm getting Maurer's book for Christmas. (The new procedure for buying my Christmas, birthday and Father's daygifts are: 1) let me order the gift, 2) let me 'inspect it', 3) I'lleven wrap it, 4) give me the check.) I glanced at the book while wrapping it for myself. It seems veryinteresting. I'll be able to give you a much better IMHO after the27th, which is when my side of the family is getting together. But I'll tell you that I have Garrison's, Cattanach's, Howell's, and nowMaurer's books simply because, years from now when the 'hype' andenthusiasm of rodbuilding wears off, these books may not be available. Buying them on-line is relatively painless and inexpensive. I shouldbuy Holden's book just for the historical value, I'd buy Kirkfield'sbook if it were not so expensive, and I'd buy Barne's book if I couldfind it (my library has one and I've checked it out so often they thinkof it as mine). So far, W.Cattanach's is all you really ever need toknow about rodbuilding. The same could be said for Howell's except thathe refers to Wayne's book for form making - so you need his anyway. Garrison's book has the most detailed explanations of 'why' things aredone the way we do them. But if you read his book first, you'd probablynever try to build a rod yourself. Forget more explanations. Build that rod. Stuart should have yourforms ready to groove. Go for it! Rick Crenshaw from maxs@geocities.co.jp Wed Dec 23 16:10:22 1998 mail.geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id HAA20545 for; Thu, 24Dec 1998 07:10:17 +0900 (JST) Subject: Node Straightening Procedure using Clothes Steam Iron Hello all, I finished one butt strip succesfully straightened and uploaded thearticle on my English web below.Enjoy it and Merry Christmas Eve. Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Dec 23 16:42:41 1998 Thu, 24 Dec 1998 06:41:57 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time Whoa! What a gold mine!! Tony On Wed, 23 Dec 1998 arnold.jl@pg.com wrote: Is this list going to be used to generate a page of taper dimensions? Oristhis just for everyone's general information. Jeff From: "Lamberson, William R." on 12/23/9812:06PM Please respond to lambersonw@missouri.edu cc: (bcc: Jeff Arnold-JL/PGI)Subject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from darrell01@netzero.net Wed Dec 23 16:57:45 1998 0000 (199.174.180.244) Subject: Re[2]: Database, was The twenty five or thirty best tapers of alltime boundary="=PMail:=_0001@@Meqd5jXnyKmlT96CU732" --=PMail:=_0001@@Meqd5jXnyKmlT96CU732 If you're looking for a #35 I have 2 of them (well one has just beenadopte=dand will moving to a new, caring home...), both with 2 3/4F but theyare 9'6". One is circa 1936 w/agate stripper and the other late 30'sor perhaps even newer with a chromed stripper. Curiously, both are called9'6" but the younger one is only 9'3" but is absolutely original. DidHeddon do custom orders... I got both from the same owner and he didcorrespond directly with the factory. Does anyone want me to mic the specs? Darrell =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Subject: Re: Database, was The twenty five or thirty best tapers of alltime In a message dated 12/23/98 11:06:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,ragnarig@integrityol.com writes: Heddon Model 14 9' 2 =BE F 3 pc # 7/8 Doesn't need to be a Model 14. A model 35 2-3/4F would most likely bethe thesame taper in many different models - all differed in only # of guidesandbells & whistles. (including cane quality levels) = All 2-3/4F rods used the same taper. So a Model 8 through Model 1000 (inthe =2-3/4F taper) would cast the same. (IMHO) Sorry for the confusion, Don Burns --=PMail:=_0001@@Meqd5jXnyKmlT96CU732-- ___________________________________________Simplify your holiday shopping...Visit our partners for great holiday gifts.http://www.netzero.net/etoyshttp://www.netzero.net/amazon from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Dec 23 17:15:49 1998 Thu, 24 Dec 1998 07:15:26 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: 25 or 30 best tapers of all time That thought occured to me when I tossed a couple of suggestions inparticually as the only rods I've *realy* liked to cast are the ones I'vemade myself from classic tapers.Out of the few ready rolled varietys I've only tried Hardys, Papes,Phillipsons and Pezon et Michelle and a whole bunch of nameless English rods but haven't particually liked the actions where as to many what I've just writen is anathma so just how do you define the best 25? Just whatdoes it take to get that "AH HA" feeling and how do contempory rodmakerswith their own tapers prob deserving of inclusion pass this on? Tony On Wed, 23 Dec 1998, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Guys, When I asked the question, I must admit I didn't put a lot of thought intojust how this information might be presented or used.Several things are becoming rapidly apparent - few contemporaryrodmakershave their tapers listed here. There maybe a lot of reasons for this but Iexpect it has much to due with the makers exposure to others. Also a lotofbuilders do very few rods each year so the circulation can't be wide. Iwould hate to think that we are missing out some excellent tapers. Doesanyone have any suggestions of how this could be remedied? I, likeothers,have developed tapers. Whether they are worthy of consideration mayrestonly with me. However, I would feel that I shouldn't present such a taperas one of the 25 best. What suits me may not suit the rest. Or maybe Ishould be just pig-headed enough to believe my tapers are the end andbe-all of tapers and list them here indescribably. That surely wouldn'thelp the cause of determining best tapers but would certainly swell thehead of the poster.HELP!!!! After the list is developed - perhaps we could approach the personsponsoring the taper and have him provide some details about the taper. Just some thoughts, DonAll the best of the Season /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from anglport@con2.com Wed Dec 23 17:17:45 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Re[2]: Database, was The twenty five or thirty best tapersof all time Does anyone want me to mic the specs? Darrell Darrell,Uhhh... does the ursine creature defecate in the arboreous region?Art from channer@hubwest.com Wed Dec 23 17:37:40 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AF2E38E0138; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:39:26 MST Subject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time At 09:16 AM 12/23/98 -0600, you wrote:Several additional rods have been nominated. The list now includes: DriggsPara 15 Sir DYoung MidgeYoung PerfectionistGarrison 212EGarrison 221Leonard 50Leonard 38H 7' #4Payne 200Granger SpecialCross BataviakillCross SylphF. E. Thomas Browntone Light TroutWinston 8' #7Orvis FleaHardy C. C. deFrance or TarantinoKretchman 6' 6" #3Heddon Model 14 9' 2 * F 3 pc # 7/8Farlow made Norm Thompson 6' 2 *" 2 pc # 4/5 If I have overlooked any nominees let me know. We still have room formorenominees before we get to 25. Bill Lamberson How about Dickerson,8013 for example and A.J. Thamer's 8' Dx. John from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Dec 23 17:46:27 1998 Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:43:52 -0600 Subject: Re: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time Richard,I agree, that would be extremely helpful. In fact, next October at theSouthern Rodmakers Gathering, I hope to do something very similar with a"CosmicCast-Off". Everyone attending will be asked to display their rods, with adescription and possibly a taper. The the rods will be available forcasting.Hands on, rod to rod comparison.That's the great advantage to the gatherings... Harry Richard Nantel wrote: What would be most helpful for those many of us who have never casttheserods would be some type of description of their action (parabolic, etc).That way, the next time we want to build, say, a fast action 4 wt, we'llknow where to start looking. Could the final list be broken down intosuchbroad categories by some of you experts? Thanks Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu WilliamR.Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 2:18 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time -----Original Message-----From: Lamberson, William R. Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 9:17 AM Subject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers ofall time Several additional rods have been nominated. The list nowincludes:DriggsPara 15Sir DYoung MidgeYoung PerfectionistGarrison 212EGarrison 221Leonard 50Leonard 38H 7' #4Payne 200Granger SpecialCross BataviakillCross SylphF. E. Thomas Browntone Light TroutOrvis FleaHardy C. C. deFrance or TarantinoKretchman 6' 6" #3Heddon Model 14 9' 2 * F 3 pc # 7/8Farlow made Norm Thompson 6' 2 *" 2 pc # 4/5Dawn Holbrook 8.5' tapers for a #7 or #8 linesThramer 6' 472DxWinston Little FellerWinston 8' #7 If I have overlooked any nominees let me know. We stillhave room for more nominees before we get to 25.Bill Lamberson from dmanders@telusplanet.net Wed Dec 23 17:54:07 1998 don") by eeyore.eon.netwith SMTP id ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:53:39 -0700 Subject: Oh God - I've gone and stepped in it Guys/Gals, About the 25>30 best tapers of all time - What if a contemporary builder felt his tapers were proprietary andwishednot to have his efforts broadcast world wide. Some might be impressed -some not.This may turn into a legal question of who really owns tapers - are theyintellectual property? If so they may accrue to the estate of the builderor to purchasers of rod building businesses. Then without the permissionofthe builder, I would wonder if we really should be publishing tapers ofanybody. Well? Don from rcurry@top.monad.net Wed Dec 23 17:57:21 1998 Subject: Re: 25 or 30 best tapers of all time Tony, et al,One thing occurred to me regarding my nominations... I don't own eitherofthe rods I nominated. Perhaps the search for the elusive "perfect" taper istheend in itself??I do enjoy fishing with any of the rods that have followed me home.Probablyeven if I had, say, a Zimny 7' 4wt, I would still be looking for a rod with adifferent feel... and probably often as not, I'd be found fishing a 10'Calcuttacane wetfly rod that I bought for $17.When we have the gatherings and can test drive thirty rods in one day, Iusually find my palate ruined after tasting the first dozen; but astartlinglypleasant rod like the Kretchman will still stand out.Best regards,Reed Tony Young wrote: That thought occured to me when I tossed a couple of suggestions inparticually as the only rods I've *realy* liked to cast are the ones I'vemade myself from classic tapers.Out of the few ready rolled varietys I've only tried Hardys, Papes,Phillipsons and Pezon et Michelle and a whole bunch of nameless Englishrods but haven't particually liked the actions where as to many what I'vejust writen is anathma so just how do you define the best 25? Just whatdoes it take to get that "AH HA" feeling and how do contemporyrodmakerswith their own tapers prob deserving of inclusion pass this on? Tony from channer@hubwest.com Wed Dec 23 17:57:24 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A3CD3B90138; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:59:09 MST Subject: Re: Database, was The twenty five or thirty best tapers of alltime At 11:02 AM 12/23/98 -0800, David wrote:Although the following is overly long for Internet consumption, I wouldtell you that there is some sex, and political controversy. You know, something needs to be done regarding tapers. We are getting alot of great suggestions for the "Top-25 List" but, at least in many cases,we don't know what they mean. For example: terms like "ThomasBrowntone"and "Granger Victory" say much less about the taper than they do about thecolors and fittings- or even the historical context in which they wereproduced. In some cases the maker gave a designation which indicatedtaper but in many cases he did not. We need to have a comprehensive database, or library or whatever youwishto call it, so that people can contribute tapers and other pertinentinformation which can then be studied and compared to other descriptions,definitions and data. Since we've now got the Internet, we'd be nuts ifwe didn't take the opportunity to do this, now that it won't take foreverto verify and correct information.snip from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Dec 23 19:06:07 1998 "dmanders@telusplanet.net" Subject: Re: 25 or 30 best tapers of all time Don One interesting point that has been overlooked in this discussion isthere is a big difference between somebody's favorite rod and a good Taperthatis out there for reproduction by the general population of rodmakers. Tokeepa perspective on what qualifies for a "Taper" candidate I would saymultiplepeople must have built the rod from the posted taper and are satisfiedwith theresults. I think the consensus favorite is the Para - 15 that qualifies. Anumber ofothers that have been proposed don't. So I would say let people nominate tapers that they have built and be seconded by someone else who also has built the taper and agrees. Thiswould reign in the candidates and give hope more people would develop andpost reliable tapers. Chris On Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:08:06 -0700, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Guys, When I asked the question, I must admit I didn't put a lot of thought intojust how this information might be presented or used.Several things are becoming rapidly apparent - few contemporaryrodmakershave their tapers listed here. There maybe a lot of reasons for this but Iexpect it has much to due with the makers exposure to others. Also a lotofbuilders do very few rods each year so the circulation can't be wide. Iwould hate to think that we are missing out some excellent tapers. Doesanyone have any suggestions of how this could be remedied? I, likeothers,have developed tapers. Whether they are worthy of consideration mayrestonly with me. However, I would feel that I shouldn't present such a taperas one of the 25 best. What suits me may not suit the rest. Or maybe Ishould be just pig-headed enough to believe my tapers are the end andbe-all of tapers and list them here indescribably. That surely wouldn'thelp the cause of determining best tapers but would certainly swell thehead of the poster.HELP!!!! After the list is developed - perhaps we could approach the personsponsoring the taper and have him provide some details about the taper. Just some thoughts, DonAll the best of the Season Regards Chris from Canerods@aol.com Wed Dec 23 20:21:22 1998 Subject: Re: Oh God - I've gone and stepped in it In a message dated 12/23/98 3:58:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,dmanders@telusplanet.net writes: What if a contemporary builder felt his tapers were proprietary andwishednot to have his efforts broadcast world wide. Some might be impressed-some not.This may turn into a legal question of who really owns tapers - are theyintellectual property? If so they may accrue to the estate of the builderor to purchasers of rod building businesses. Then without thepermission ofthe builder, I would wonder if we really should be publishing tapers ofanybody. Well? Don Don, I believe that if you measure an existing rod and record the taper that thisis what is called reverse-engineering. Auto manufacturers among others do rev-eng'ing all the time. Publishing of the measured taper won't win you any friends, but I'm notsureif this would be stealing of a trade secret. It's not the dimensions thatwould be the trade secret, but how to achieve them. But I'm not a lawyer -sodon't quote me if you get hauled off to jail. I, myself, won't publish someone else's taper (without permission) unlesstheoriginal rod company is out of business or not making cane rods anymore. Don Burns from thramer@presys.com Wed Dec 23 20:21:28 1998 0000 Subject: Tapers Back again after some server problems. Been able to read the group butnot respond! Tapers are most likely intellectual property but they are daily divulgeddaily and indeed are available quite cheaply for the cost of a blank.There are no liscense costs either. I decided a year or two ago torespond as time permits to private requests for tapers. A.J.Thramer from saltwein@swbell.net Wed Dec 23 20:35:23 1998 UAA25055 Subject: Re: Database, was The twenty five or thirty best tapers of alltime If I have overlooked any nominees let me know. We stillhave room for morenominees before we get to 25. Bill Lamberson It would be interesting to see what Gierach's top rods are, as in someway he started all of this. Regards and Merry Christmas, SteveIndependence, MO from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Dec 23 20:46:21 1998 Thu, 24 Dec 1998 10:45:28 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: 25 or 30 best tapers of all time Reed,you see my point and outlined another being the journey is every bit asimportant and possibly more so than the destination. I guess I've neversailed anywhere I couldn't have driven or flowen but what would I do onceI was there? Merry Christmas to all on the list. (I'll be opening my presents beforeyou , except for Ian ;-) ) On Wed, 23 Dec 1998, reed wrote: Tony, et al,One thing occurred to me regarding my nominations... I don't owneither ofthe rods I nominated. Perhaps the search for the elusive "perfect" taperis theend in itself??I do enjoy fishing with any of the rods that have followed me home.Probablyeven if I had, say, a Zimny 7' 4wt, I would still be looking for a rod withadifferent feel... and probably often as not, I'd be found fishing a 10'Calcuttacane wetfly rod that I bought for $17.When we have the gatherings and can test drive thirty rods in one day,Iusually find my palate ruined after tasting the first dozen; but astartlinglypleasant rod like the Kretchman will still stand out.Best regards,Reed Tony Young wrote: That thought occured to me when I tossed a couple of suggestions inparticually as the only rods I've *realy* liked to cast are the ones I'vemade myself from classic tapers.Out of the few ready rolled varietys I've only tried Hardys, Papes,Phillipsons and Pezon et Michelle and a whole bunch of namelessEnglishrods but haven't particually liked the actions where as to many whatI'vejust writen is anathma so just how do you define the best 25? Justwhatdoes it take to get that "AH HA" feeling and how do contemporyrodmakerswith their own tapers prob deserving of inclusion pass this on? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Dec 23 20:57:00 1998 Thu, 24 Dec 1998 10:56:46 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Oh God - I've gone and stepped in it I find it a little hard to see how tapers can be regarded in a legal senceas intellectual property once it gets out to the public at large.Of course, I'm happily not a lawer so what do I know but you can't take apatent on a carabiner for eg as the basic concept is public and minutevariations don't count, although if you were to build a Herrishoff boatand call it a Herrishoff 12 1/2' for example MIT or whoever own the lineswould be PDQ off the starting blocks to see you in court but the $ values are somewhat different. All you can hope for in reality is a gentlemansagreement and try mantaining and encouraging a high standard of ethics. I like to use I'll always credit the designer on the rod before my name asthe mere maker. Possibly this is a case of rubbery ethics but commonsencehas to come ito it somewhere.To make a rod and pass it off as your own design when it's from someoneliving or dead is just bad form Tony On Wed, 23 Dec 1998, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Guys/Gals, About the 25>30 best tapers of all time - What if a contemporary builder felt his tapers were proprietary andwishednot to have his efforts broadcast world wide. Some might be impressed -some not.This may turn into a legal question of who really owns tapers - are theyintellectual property? If so they may accrue to the estate of the builderor to purchasers of rod building businesses. Then without the permissionofthe builder, I would wonder if we really should be publishing tapers ofanybody. Well? Don /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Dec 23 20:59:12 1998 Thu, 24 Dec 1998 10:58:42 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) "dmanders@telusplanet.net" Subject: Re: 25 or 30 best tapers of all time Don One interesting point that has been overlooked in this discussion isthere is a big difference between somebody's favorite rod and a goodTaper thatis out there for reproduction by the general population of rodmakers. Tokeepa perspective on what qualifies for a "Taper" candidate I would saymultiplepeople must have built the rod from the posted taper and are satisfiedwith theresults. I think the consensus favorite is the Para - 15 that qualifies. Anumber ofothers that have been proposed don't. Good idea. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Dec 23 21:07:28 1998 Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:06:45 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Tapers On Wed, 23 Dec 1998, A.J.Thramer wrote: Back again after some server problems. Been able to read the group butnot respond! Tapers are most likely intellectual property but they are daily divulgeddaily and indeed are available quite cheaply for the cost of a blank.There are no liscense costs either. I decided a year or two ago torespond as time permits to private requests for tapers. A.J.Thramer I think that's a realistic approach. In a recent post I mentioned I didn'tconsider tapers could be called intellectual property in a legal sence butonly from the point of view of proving it and keeping people off yourturf.If a taper is good, people will use it. It's sort of like people notwanting to show neophytes how to get into rodmaking for fear of loosingbusiness. Anybody who'll keep the hobby up would work it all out anyhowsowhy not gracefuly help and make friends rather than looking over yourshoulder and becoming bitter and twisted? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Dec 23 21:11:03 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id VAA32439 for; Wed, (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP idVAA18767 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 Subject: Re: Database, was The twenty five or thirty best tapers of alltime I think the computer end of this project is do-able, but what itwould really require is a small "board of directors" who wouldserve a gatekeepers, to make sure the rods included were in thepublic domain, whatever that means, that they were measured carefully according to a procedure, and were worthy of inclusion.If you let everyone submit whatever they want it will be a mess.Obviously the board members would have to know their rods. The first thing to decide is the purpose of the database, whetherit is just the tapers or really the whole rod. As a hobby builderI'm interested in the tapers, but a restorer would want to knowa lot of other information on guides, ferrules, wraps, grip, seat, varnish etc.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Dec 23 21:12:42 1998 Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:12:10 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Database, was The twenty five or thirty best tapers of alltime I think you'd be surprised judging on his writing. I seem to recall acertain rod he just couldn't put down because he felt it was in some wayhaunted by the spirit of the old guy who used to own it. He said it wasshort, soft and wouldn't set a hook properly but was a joy to cast. Sounds like a para. Add to that Gierach states he likes rods of around8-1/2' to 9' of about 5-6-7 weight and you'd think he's a Kiwi looking forall those filthy big fish in very fast flowing water. Tony On Wed, 23 Dec 1998, Steve wrote: If I have overlooked any nominees let me know. We stillhave room for morenominees before we get to 25. Bill Lamberson It would be interesting to see what Gierach's top rods are, as in someway he started all of this. Regards and Merry Christmas, SteveIndependence, MO /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Dec 23 21:44:53 1998 216.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: RE: Database, was The twenty five or thirty best tapers of alltime 7bit Gierach is quite fond of Grangers among others. He's written about fishingone particular 5 wt Granger in many of his essays. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Database, was The twenty five or thirty best tapers of alltime If I have overlooked any nominees let me know. We stillhave room for morenominees before we get to 25. Bill Lamberson It would be interesting to see what Gierach's top rods are, as in someway he started all of this. Regards and Merry Christmas, SteveIndependence, MO from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Dec 23 21:50:30 1998 216.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time I have to agree with Carsten. I have an old Hardy Palakona Fairy and it's areally wonderful rod to cast. Very crisp, light and powerful. Hardy madesome great rods. Richard -----Original Message----- Jorgensen Subject: Sv: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Dec 23 22:03:04 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.9.1/8.7.3) Subject: Re: Oh God - I've gone and stepped in it At 04:55 PM 12/23/98 -0700, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote:Guys/Gals, About the 25>30 best tapers of all time - What if a contemporary builder felt his tapers were proprietary andwishednot to have his efforts broadcast world wide. Some might be impressed -some not.This may turn into a legal question of who really owns tapers - are theyintellectual property? If so they may accrue to the estate of the builderor to purchasers of rod building businesses. Then without the permissionofthe builder, I would wonder if we really should be publishing tapers ofanybody. Well? Don Sounds like reverse engineering. A commonly used technique in thecomputersoftware community. "Look and Feel" have been found to be intellectualproperty. Ironically, the disassembly of the IBM PC ROM BIOS, as done byCompaq, followed by reverse engineering a patentable BIOS, was, I believe,ruled legal by the US Supreme Court. Publishing specifications, is probablylegal, making copies for sale may be problematic. JMHO -Doug from saweiss@flash.net Wed Dec 23 23:24:16 1998 Subject: Re: 25 or 30 best tapers of all time (snip)So I would say let people nominate tapers that they have built andbe seconded by someone else who also has built the taper and agrees. Thiswould reign in the candidates and give hope more people would developandpost reliable tapers. Chris Excellent idea, Chris.This way there would be more confidence in the validity of the selection.Kind of similar to when scientific research is published by additionalresearchers who confirm the findings of an original piece of research.Thenthere are more professionals who accept that the original findings are notaccidental or a bias expressed by only one person.Steve from cmj@post11.tele.dk Thu Dec 24 03:06:15 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Rod Polish recommendations -- from rmoon@ida.net Thu Dec 24 09:02:13 1998 Subject: Re: 25 or 30 best tapers of all time Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote: (snip)So I would say let people nominate tapers that they have built andbe seconded by someone else who also has built the taper and agrees.Thiswould reign in the candidates and give hope more people would developandpost reliable tapers. Chris Excellent idea, Chris.This way there would be more confidence in the validity of the selection.Kind of similar to when scientific research is published by additionalresearchers who confirm the findings of an original piece of research.Thenthere are more professionals who accept that the original findings arenotaccidental or a bias expressed by only one person.Steve One of the problems that can occur with this type of process, Steve, isthatthe original researcher made a mistake and all of those who later concurwithhim perpetuate the mistake until it becomes written in stone. Unfortunatelythis happens far more often than it should. On the other hand, independantcorroboration that is not based on prior research does have corroborativevalidity.In the case of rods, however, a further complication is how todistinguishbetween preference and validity. Case in point: I made in my early days, aparabolic rod that was extremely slow. Still it could cast a narrow loopatincredible speed. A friend of my who is a casting instructor tried it andcommented "The damn riod is no damned good." Another friend darned nearbrokemy arm trying to buy that. He did and still proclaims it one of the bestrodshe has ever seen. Is it a good taper, or is it only that some people like itbetter. Personally I don't think it is a good taper, but I love the rod andits action. It has to be one of the most pleasant rods to cast that I haveever used. BUT, it is too demanding for most fly fishers to cast. So? What are the criteria for this list?????Ralph from morten@flash.net Thu Dec 24 09:07:39 1998 Subject: PARAHOLIC All,I was cleaning out my inbox and saw the 'Paraholic' topic again. I toohave used this term occasionally but I dont know were I got it (theword, not the illness). I first noticed the symptoms when I made thePezon & Michell Ritz PPP Colorado. Then when I made a one piece Para17, I knew it was serious. I realized I had become a Paraholic. I wantedto tell the group, but I guess I have been in denial.Merry Christmas to all of you.Morten -- 3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten/index.htm from LambersonW@missouri.edu Thu Dec 24 10:34:49 1998 (5.5.2232.9) "'Canerods@aol.com'" ,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time Once again several additional rods have been nominated forthe list. Some have been nominated more than once or seconds have beenmade. I have attempted to attach the names of the original nominator.Unfortunately, I have evidently deleted some messages and am unable tofindsome. Others I was unable to clearly identify from the message and acoupleof individuals asked that their names not be revealed (they are listed asanonymous). If any of you can assist me with completion of the list Iwouldappreciate it. If any of you wish to second nominations, please do so. ThePara 15 has been mentioned by several individuals, more than for anyotherspecific taper. Several individuals have asked me what is to be done withthis list. I don't know, but the tapers of many of the nominated rods areknown, and perhaps they would be good candidates for addition to FrankStetzer's taper archive. It might also be fun to send the list to John Gierach. DriggsTony Young Dell CoppockPara 15Tony Young Tom SmithwickSir DTony YoungYoung MidgeTony Young Davy Young PerfectionistGarrison l93AlexGarrison 212ETom Smithwick John ZimnyGarrison 221Garrison 201ERob HoffhinesLeonard 50Rob HoffhinesLeonard 38H 7' #4` AnonymousLeonard model 50 1/2, a 8 1/2ft 3pc 5wghtPayne 98Rob HoffhinesPayne 200Rob HoffhinesGranger SpecialSteve ( from Tom maxwell)Cross BataviakillDavyCross SylphDell CoppockF. E. Thomas Browntone Light TroutDavyFE Thomas 71/2 4wtRob HoffhinesOrvis FleaAnonymousHardy C. C. deFrance or TarantinoDavyKretchman 6' 6" #3ReedHeddon 9' 2 * F 3 pc # 7/8Don BurnsFarlow made Norm Thompson 6' 2 *" 2 pc # 4/5Don BurnsDawn Holbrook 8.5' tapers for a #7 or #8 linesRob NielsenThramer 6' 472DxChris McDowellA.J. Thamer's 8' DxJohn ChannerWinston Little FellerWinston 8' #7Dell CoppockPayne 98Rob HoffhinesDickerson,8013John ChannerHardy Palakona FairyRichard NantelHardy PerfectionCarsten JorgensenMerritt Hawes 9ft 3pc 6wghtMike Clark 8ft 2pc 6wght Bill Lamberson from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Dec 24 10:51:17 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A33F4400052; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 09:00:47 PDT Subject: Re: Database, was The twenty five or thirty best tapers of alltime boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0028_01BE2F1A.310021E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BE2F1A.310021E0 Dear Frank Thanks for addressing this subject. I do have a contrasting view in a = instances. I think the computer end of this project is do-able, but what itwould really require is a small "board of directors" who wouldserve a gatekeepers, to make sure the rods included were in the carefully according to a procedure, and were worthy of inclusion.If you let everyone submit whatever they want it will be a mess.Obviously the board members would have to know their rods. It's not the concept I have in mind, which would be more inclusiveof all types and qualities of rods, or as close to that ideal as =possible. everybody what's of value and what's not. The other way would be,as you say, a mess: just a mess of a different sort. Experts tendto have limited time for such endeavors, for one thing. Also they, = become canon. The first thing to decide is the purpose of the database, whetherit is just the tapers or really the whole rod. As a hobby builderI'm interested in the tapers, but a restorer would want to know varnish etc. and preferably in a format that could be accessed and amended with that as well. My understanding is that tapers are, by their very nature, not = gear ratios of an automobile than its grille or logo. I wouldn't mind = ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is better Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BE2F1A.310021E0 DearFrank instances. = rods. It's not the concept I have in mind, which would be more =inclusive possible.I think the thing we don't need is another body of experts telling = = be, Experts tend they, like everyone, follow their own prejudices, the difference being that = become canon. Eventually, I would like to see all the above information =available, and preferably in a format that could be accessed and amended with that as well. My understanding is that tapers are, by their very nature, not = wouldn't mind too much if a brighter light were to illuminate the subject. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BE2F1A.310021E0-- from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Dec 24 11:03:38 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A62410E0190; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 09:13:08 PDT Subject: Re: Oh God - I've gone and stepped in it boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0047_01BE2F1B.ECD5A740" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BE2F1B.ECD5A740 Doug One reason I think it's be pretty hard to make a case for infringing on =ataper is simply that the originator is so seldom able to reproduce it = Take the Para 15 as a prime example. If Chevy made Corvettes that waythey'd be public domain, too, if you could figure out who made them a =all. Davy Sounds like reverse engineering. A commonly used technique in the =computersoftware community. "Look and Feel" have been found to be intellectualproperty. Ironically, the disassembly of the IBM PC ROM BIOS, as done =byCompaq, followed by reverse engineering a patentable BIOS, was, I =believe,ruled legal by the US Supreme Court. Publishing specifications, is =probablylegal, making copies for sale may be problematic. JMHO -Doug ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BE2F1B.ECD5A740 Doug One reason I think it's be pretty hard to make a case for = ataper is simply thatthe = Take the Para 15 as a= they'd be public domain,= could figure out who made them a all. been = ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BE2F1B.ECD5A740-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Dec 24 11:09:35 1998 216.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, Subject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time Hi Will, I didn't mean to nominate the Hardy Palakona Fairy to this list. I justwanted to mention that some Hardy rods are fine instruments. I'm in nowayqualified to nominate any rods to this list. Unless someone else objects,please remove the Hardy Palakona Fairy. Sorry for the confusion, I wasn't nominating a rod, just putting in a goodword for Hardy. Richard -----Original Message----- WilliamR. rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time Once again several additional rods have been nominated forthe list. Some have been nominated more than once or seconds have beenmade. I have attempted to attach the names of the original nominator.Unfortunately, I have evidently deleted some messages and am unable tofindsome. Others I was unable to clearly identify from the message and acoupleof individuals asked that their names not be revealed (they are listed asanonymous). If any of you can assist me with completion of the list Iwouldappreciate it. If any of you wish to second nominations, please do so. ThePara 15 has been mentioned by several individuals, more than for anyotherspecific taper. Several individuals have asked me what is to be done withthis list. I don't know, but the tapers of many of the nominated rods areknown, and perhaps they would be good candidates for addition to FrankStetzer's taper archive. It might also be fun to send the list to John Gierach. DriggsTony Young Dell CoppockPara 15Tony Young Tom SmithwickSir DTony YoungYoung MidgeTony Young DavyYoung PerfectionistGarrison l93AlexGarrison 212ETom Smithwick John ZimnyGarrison 221Garrison 201ERob HoffhinesLeonard 50Rob HoffhinesLeonard 38H 7' #4` AnonymousLeonard model 50 1/2, a 8 1/2ft 3pc 5wghtPayne 98Rob HoffhinesPayne 200Rob HoffhinesGranger SpecialSteve ( from Tom maxwell)Cross BataviakillDavyCross SylphDell CoppockF. E. Thomas Browntone Light TroutDavyFE Thomas 71/2 4wtRob HoffhinesOrvis FleaAnonymousHardy C. C. deFrance or TarantinoDavyKretchman 6' 6" #3ReedHeddon 9' 2 * F 3 pc # 7/8Don BurnsFarlow made Norm Thompson 6' 2 *" 2 pc # 4/5Don BurnsDawn Holbrook 8.5' tapers for a #7 or #8 linesRob NielsenThramer 6' 472DxChris McDowellA.J. Thamer's 8' DxJohn ChannerWinston Little FellerWinston 8' #7Dell CoppockPayne 98Rob HoffhinesDickerson,8013John ChannerHardy Palakona FairyRichard NantelHardy PerfectionCarsten JorgensenMerritt Hawes 9ft 3pc 6wghtMike Clark 8ft 2pc 6wght Bill Lamberson from darrell01@netzero.net Thu Dec 24 11:39:33 1998 0000 (199.174.223.218) Subject: Thank you all! boundary="=PMail:=_0001@@LotkXvSj7DP5flbJcYaE" --=PMail:=_0001@@LotkXvSj7DP5flbJcYaE This community of rod builders and refinishers are the best!!! MerryXmas to all and happy holidays! --=PMail:=_0001@@LotkXvSj7DP5flbJcYaE-- ___________________________________________Simplify your holiday shopping...Visit our partners for great holiday gifts.http://www.netzero.net/etoyshttp://www.netzero.net/amazon from stpete@netten.net Thu Dec 24 11:41:29 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA28424 for ;Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:41:27 Subject: Best Rod Tapers of All Time List, Keep up the nominees. Or at least keep singing the praises of youfavorite tapers. How else can an inexperienced, poor casting, cash poorrodmaker, whose peak experience with "classic" rods is a PhillipsonPacemaker, make the decision on which rod to build first. Sir D gets the praises - Sir D gets built.Driggs gets the praises - Driggs gets built. Looks like a Para-15 or Wayne's 'The Force' are next. Unless I getmultiple praises on another 'end-all be-all rod'. I save every taper posted (THANKS!!!) and I'd love to build 'em all. Keep it up,Rick from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Dec 24 13:30:04 1998 Subject: AFF did it Several years ago The American Flyfisher carried out a survey among itsmembers on their favorite cane rods.The outcome was interesting because of all those that participated, eachhad chosen rods by different makers (more or less)Some of the choices were based on very personal preferences and not pureperformance, such as knowing the builder etc.Dickerson, I think came out on top with Payne running second. Thedifference in the rating list was measured by very small percentagesindeed!How will the Rodmakers 25 best tapers be arrived at? Will the tapers betaken directly from classic rods or retro-rods?It is reputed that Young used an impregnation process to seal the cane,which I can believe because so many of his rods have survived.It is very difficult to measure a rod that is covered in varnish andline guides? It will be interesting to study a whole bunch of tapers, if you are thatway inclined, but unless you can reproduce the exact process that wentinto the original, exact duplication is impossible.There is a magic in cane rod making that goes far beyond plagiarizing afew tapers and gluing them up. That is only the starting point!A database of tapers would be Important for rod historians as long asthe information is accurate. After all, a rod measured with the varnishon and then guessimated could very well produce a better rod than theoriginal!Terry Ackland from briansr@point-net.com Thu Dec 24 15:16:31 1998 0000 Subject: Re:AFF did it Hi TerryYou have written the very thoughts of more than a few on the list . I wasgoing to raise the question of duplicating a master's techniques & theirinfluence on the resulting rod.I saw a Hardy last week that I'm sure had never been refinished but therewas a definate variation in the thikness of the varnish from one end to thenextCheers Brian from cattanac@wmis.net Thu Dec 24 15:56:00 1998 t2.wmis.net (8.8.5/SCO5) withSMTP id VAA05665; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 21:59:51 GMT Subject: Nice Plane boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE2EFA.0250BD20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE2EFA.0250BD20 Well Santa UPS arrived shortly after noon with a box of goodies - a =shipment from Tom Kie-Nielsen - inside were 2 of his new 9 1/2 plane - =hasty tracks to the basement - after a quick dressing of the blade a =pile of .0005" shaving was a easy assignment - the plane is bit heavier =than the Stanley - which seems just enough so that no down pressure was=needed to plane. The main body is steel with the front foot adjusting =knob and blade keep being bronze - nicely polished and easy fitting to =the palm - the only draw back - perhaps - is the $312 dent in the Visa = ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE2EFA.0250BD20 Santa UPS arrived shortly after noon with a box of goodies - a shipment = Kie-Nielsen - inside were 2 of his new 9 1/2 plane - hasty tracks to the = basement - after a quick dressing of the blade a pile of .0005" = a easy assignment - the plane is bit heavier than the Stanley - which = enough so that no down pressure was needed to plane. The main body is = the front foot adjusting knob and blade keep being bronze - nicely = in the Visa for the pair ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE2EFA.0250BD20-- from rkovalak@bright.net Thu Dec 24 17:02:42 1998 SAA07266; Subject: Re: Database, was The twenty five or thirty best tapers of alltime boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BE2F67.7ADB9360" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BE2F67.7ADB9360 Just some thoughts from a lurker, Would it not be wise to design a useful database structure, i.e. what =information to include to maximize the usefulness of the database to the =largest segment of the builder population, before considering with what =to populate the database? The usefulness of any database will be = -----Original Message----- RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Database, was The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all =time Dear Frank Thanks for addressing this subject. I do have a contrasting view = instances. I think the computer end of this project is do-able, but what itwould really require is a small "board of directors" who wouldserve a gatekeepers, to make sure the rods included were in the carefully according to a procedure, and were worthy of inclusion.If you let everyone submit whatever they want it will be a mess.Obviously the board members would have to know their rods. It's not the concept I have in mind, which would be more inclusiveof all types and qualities of rods, or as close to that ideal as =possible. everybody what's of value and what's not. The other way would be,as you say, a mess: just a mess of a different sort. Experts tendto have limited time for such endeavors, for one thing. Also they, = everyone, follow their own prejudices, the difference being that = become canon. The first thing to decide is the purpose of the database, whetherit is just the tapers or really the whole rod. As a hobby builderI'm interested in the tapers, but a restorer would want to know varnish etc. Eventually, I would like to see all the above information available, = and preferably in a format that could be accessed and amended with that as well. My understanding is that tapers are, by their very nature, not = nor subject to copyright laws. They are more like the wheelbase = gear ratios of an automobile than its grille or logo. I wouldn't = =......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is =better Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van =Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BE2F67.7ADB9360 Just some thoughts from a =lurker, Would it not be wise to design a useful = structure, i.e. what information to include to maximize the usefulness = database to the largest segment of the builder population, before = = proportional to the quality NOT quantity of information in = ----- stetzer@csd.uwm.edu = RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu=<RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Thursday, December 24, 1998 11:52 AMSubject: Re: = The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time DearFrank Thanks for addressing instances. rods. inclusiveof all types and qualities of rods, or as close to that ideal = possible.I think the thing we don't need is another body of experts = would be, Experts tendto have limited time for such endeavors, for one = Also they, like everyone, follow their own prejudices, the difference being = become canon. Eventually, I would like to see all the above information = and preferably in a format that could be accessed and =amended problems with that as well. patentable gear ratios of an automobile than its grille or = wouldn't mind too much if a brighter light were to illuminate the subject. = = ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BE2F67.7ADB9360-- from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Dec 24 17:17:58 1998 0600 Subject: Christmas Wishes Friends,I hope you'll indulge me a few minutes to practice my profession onthis list. Sitting in the study this afternoon, preparing for ourChristmas Eve Vespers, I thought I should share a few thoughts with you,my "other congregation".First, best wishes in rodbuilding to all of you. May your nodes beflat, your blades sharp, your glue lines tight, and your sectionsstraight.More importantly, at Christmas, we all need to come out of theworkshop for a little while. Remember the spirit of the season. Dosomething nice for someone who cannot possibly return the favor.Indulge your wives and children and grandchildren for a day or two.Enjoy the food and merriment, but remember those for whom there is noextravaganza today. Tell someone special to you just how much you lovethem.And remember, we celebrate the birth of the Prince of peace,Wonderful Counselor, the Everlasting Father. He who came to revealGod's love and grace is worthy of our celebrations and praise.And the heavenly host sang, "Glory to God in the highest. On Earth,peace towards men of good will." Make it a blessed Christmas, Reverend Dr. Harry Boyd, Jr. from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Dec 24 19:40:18 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AF3827011E; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 17:49:44 PDT Subject: Re: Christmas Wishes Harry Thanks for the good words, and Merry Christmas to you, as well as bestwishes for good fishing in the coming year! It's good to remember that the majority of Jesus' close friends werefishermen, and that his dad was a craftsman- a woodworker. This shouldgive us all hope, which we generally need in great abundance! Davy Friends,I hope you'll indulge me a few minutes to practice my profession onthis list. Sitting in the study this afternoon, preparing for ourChristmas Eve Vespers, I thought I should share a few thoughts with you,my "other congregation".First, best wishes in rodbuilding to all of you. May your nodes beflat, your blades sharp, your glue lines tight, and your sectionsstraight.More importantly, at Christmas, we all need to come out of theworkshop for a little while. Remember the spirit of the season. Dosomething nice for someone who cannot possibly return the favor.Indulge your wives and children and grandchildren for a day or two.Enjoy the food and merriment, but remember those for whom there is noextravaganza today. Tell someone special to you just how much you lovethem.And remember, we celebrate the birth of the Prince of peace,Wonderful Counselor, the Everlasting Father. He who came to revealGod's love and grace is worthy of our celebrations and praise.And the heavenly host sang, "Glory to God in the highest. On Earth,peace towards men of good will." Make it a blessed Christmas, Reverend Dr. Harry Boyd, Jr. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Dec 24 20:21:22 1998 fbcwin@fsbnet.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Re: Christmas Wishes Testing to see if this makes it to the list from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Dec 24 21:20:35 1998 Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:20:09 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re:AFF did it On Thu, 24 Dec 1998, Brian Sturrock wrote: Hi TerryYou have written the very thoughts of more than a few on the list . I wasgoing to raise the question of duplicating a master's techniques & theirinfluence on the resulting rod.I saw a Hardy last week that I'm sure had never been refinished but therewas a definate variation in the thikness of the varnish from one end tothenextCheers Brian This as well as the point made previously re. public domain and proprietyownership of a taper being difficult or almost impossible toreplicate ala PHY's own Para 15s etc compared with a car for eg. bringsabout a thought I've long had regarding tapers that have come down to be thought of as classics, take note I'm not implying this across the board.Are you ready? IMHO the reason "classics" are classics is that besides being basicalygood casting and fishing tapers, the tapers themselves allow quite a lotof variation of planing and finish.The other point is that in a lot of cases although as in PHY's case heprob didn't varnish as per Terry A there is no doubt these rods are stillgreat rods which either means they are great rods but different to theoriginals *or* cast about the same due to the reason I started with, beingthe tapers will allow for a fair bit of variation without adverslyeffecting the qualities.Possibly the best example I can think of is to compare "classic" riflecartidges.A good example here would be the Win .300 mag and the .220 Swift.The .300 mag will stand quite a wide variation of loads (even takinginto account the cartridge capacity) and even bullet weights and types andstill come very close to the POI of every other loading variation where asthat definately can't be said of the .220 Swift. Last I saw of things theSwift is largly on it's way out in favour to the .22/250 for much the samereason the .300 is so popular. Both these cartridges are reasonably new soclassics don't have to be old just good and versatile and easy to livewith. Tony Merry Christmas /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Dec 24 22:14:40 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A3508F011E; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 20:23:44 PDT Subject: Re: Re:AFF did it Tony You make some good points regarding flexibility and potential foradaptation, but I would propose that another reason for the respect held bysome of the "classic" tapers is that they have for some years beenattachedto very well- made and beautiful rods. Incorporating brilliant designconcepts into an aesthetically pleasing product will do much to helpensurethe rod's survival. Davy This as well as the point made previously re. public domain and proprietyownership of a taper being difficult or almost impossible toreplicate ala PHY's own Para 15s etc compared with a car for eg. bringsabout a thought I've long had regarding tapers that have come down to bethought of as classics, take note I'm not implying this across the board.Are you ready?IMHO the reason "classics" are classics is that besides being basicalygood casting and fishing tapers, the tapers themselves allow quite a lotof variation of planing and finish.The other point is that in a lot of cases although as in PHY's case heprob didn't varnish as per Terry A there is no doubt these rods are stillgreat rods which either means they are great rods but different to theoriginals *or* cast about the same due to the reason I started with, beingthe tapers will allow for a fair bit of variation without adverslyeffecting the qualities.Possibly the best example I can think of is to compare "classic" riflecartidges.A good example here would be the Win .300 mag and the .220 Swift.The .300 mag will stand quite a wide variation of loads (even takinginto account the cartridge capacity) and even bullet weights and typesandstill come very close to the POI of every other loading variation where asthat definately can't be said of the .220 Swift. Last I saw of things theSwift is largly on it's way out in favour to the .22/250 for much thesamereason the .300 is so popular. Both these cartridges are reasonably newsoclassics don't have to be old just good and versatile and easy to livewith. Tony Merry Christmas /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from stpete@netten.net Fri Dec 25 03:05:46 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) Subject: Re: Christmas Wishes Harry and all, May Peace and Love be with you and reside in your heart all the yearthrough. For in such a heart, hate and fear will find no purchase. Even on those days when the nodes just won't cooperate. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. And GO VOLS! Rick C. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Dec 25 03:21:35 1998 Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:21:07 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) hexagon@odyssee.netSubject: Re: Re:AFF did it Davy, that certain something that allows variation so the taper as a rod dosn'tdevelop a bit of case of sometimes being good and sometimes notdependingon vintage and head rod maker etc.That's why I mentioned the .300 win Mag and .220 Swift. One is rock solidand the other can be great with a bit of tweaking. A rod that can't standsome unintentional variation of taper or finish technique wont become areliable performer in the long run. I think the good tapers however they are come about tend to encouragebetter treatment as a rod both by the maker and user. IMHO You're entirelycorrect that with out aesthesics a good rod isn't going to ever get enoughattention to show how good it is.It's also just plain good form. Tony On Thu, 24 Dec 1998, David wrote: Tony You make some good points regarding flexibility and potential foradaptation, but I would propose that another reason for the respect heldbysome of the "classic" tapers is that they have for some years beenattachedto very well- made and beautiful rods. Incorporating brilliant designconcepts into an aesthetically pleasing product will do much to helpensurethe rod's survival. Davy This as well as the point made previously re. public domain andproprietyownership of a taper being difficult or almost impossible toreplicate ala PHY's own Para 15s etc compared with a car for eg. bringsabout a thought I've long had regarding tapers that have come down tobethought of as classics, take note I'm not implying this across the board.Are you ready?IMHO the reason "classics" are classics is that besides being basicalygood casting and fishing tapers, the tapers themselves allow quite a lotof variation of planing and finish.The other point is that in a lot of cases although as in PHY's case heprob didn't varnish as per Terry A there is no doubt these rods are stillgreat rods which either means they are great rods but different to theoriginals *or* cast about the same due to the reason I started with,beingthe tapers will allow for a fair bit of variation without adverslyeffecting the qualities.Possibly the best example I can think of is to compare "classic" riflecartidges.A good example here would be the Win .300 mag and the .220 Swift.The .300 mag will stand quite a wide variation of loads (even takinginto account the cartridge capacity) and even bullet weights and typesandstill come very close to the POI of every other loading variation whereasthat definately can't be said of the .220 Swift. Last I saw of things theSwift is largly on it's way out in favour to the .22/250 for much thesamereason the .300 is so popular. Both these cartridges are reasonably newsoclassics don't have to be old just good and versatile and easy to livewith. Tony Merry Christmas /***********************************************************************/Tony Young> >http://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Dec 25 09:16:51 1998 Subject: Re: 25 or 30 best tapers of all time All,Chris Bogart and I were discussing the possibility of "best taperderived from a single rod" last night. We postulated that, given the tremendousnumber ofvariables (adhesive, amount of power fiber, method of cutting, heattreatment,ambient moisture, etc.), the likelihood of two makers producing the samecastingaction was remote at best.Actually, we had an illustration of this at Grayling two years ago. Four7'4wt. Cattenach tapers, made by four different makers were available tocast. Allhad a noticeably different feel, with one standing out as the best.Best regards,Reed from saweiss@flash.net Fri Dec 25 12:30:51 1998 Subject: Re: 25 or 30 best tapers of all time All,Chris Bogart and I were discussing the possibility of "best taperderived from a single rod" last night. We postulated that, given the tremendousnumber ofvariables (adhesive, amount of power fiber, method of cutting, heattreatment,ambient moisture, etc.), the likelihood of two makers producing the samecastingaction was remote at best.Actually, we had an illustration of this at Grayling two years ago.Four 7'4wt. Cattenach tapers, made by four different makers were available tocast. Allhad a noticeably different feel, with one standing out as the best.Best regards,Reed Reed,Could you identify any differences among the four rods that made themfeeldifferent?Would you say that any of the four were poor? If so, were there anyobviousreasons such as craftsmanship?Steve from RBalex@webtv.net Fri Dec 25 13:11:56 1998 105.iap.bryant.webtv.net 231.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id 231.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) ETAtAhRSjUO1iN6jShcF2gpqm0Hm0GkGxgIVAMnE3mUSstey2gu9CC8gHNNMbXeA Subject: four foot rod Ive noticed in monit oring some of the Rodmakers mail ( Im arelatively newer subscriber) a listing for a four foot - four rod. Iwould like to obtain that or a four foot taper. I have a concrete use help in directing me to this taper?Alex from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Dec 25 13:54:35 1998 Subject: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey To All We started this a couple of years ago to see what kind of thingswell meaning people find for their "angling" friend or loved ones. Eachyear we come up with a very interesting items. Getting the new Lie Nielsen 9 and 1/2 block plane disqualifies youbut getting a ceramic fishing basket that holds candy qualifies you thanksthis year to my sister-in-law. Good try but the candy was better than thebasket - but we got to put these things out else somebody is disappointed. Regards Chris from fiveside@net-gate.com Fri Dec 25 14:39:18 1998 (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA17725 for ;Fri, 25 Dec 1998 15:39:43 Subject: Greatest Tapers Another Candidate The taper list could use some modern tapers. I don't have John Zimny'spermission but I would like to propose his 7 foot quad which I believe hedesignated as his Model 98.Merry Xmas and a Healthy Happy New year to all. Bill from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Dec 25 14:39:50 1998 Subject: Re: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey In a message dated 12/25/98 12:00:28 PM Pacific Standard Time,cbogart@shentel.net writes: We started this a couple of years ago to see what kind of thingswell meaning people find for their "angling" friend or loved ones. Eachyear we come up with a very interesting items. How about the LL Bean Fly Fishing Backpack? It's really neat withrod holders down each side and a ventilated bag to put your wadingshoes in, then you clip it so it is carried outside of the pack. The waterproof stuff sack sewn inside seems like a good idea, it's big enough little bit heavy to carry for the use that it is intended, so I think that will get left behind. Neat outside pockets for extra fly boxes or reelsalso. Now I gotta perfect that bamboo backpacking rod. Darryl from trout@ricochet.net Fri Dec 25 14:50:28 1998 Subject: Definition of Good Taper mac-creator="4D4F5353" As more nominations for the top 25 or 30 tapers are coming in, thequestion of what constitutes a good taper becomes more and morerelevantto the discussion. Each rodbuilder nominating a favorite taper hasdifferent requirements based on his, her, or client's casting style,type of water fished, type of fly, and size/species fished for. Is arod taper great because it can cast an absolutely straight line acountry mile (but requires perfect timing and is worthless for shortcasts) or because it is very forgiving of timing and casting style andcan cast a straight line over a broad range of distances? Does it casta type loop, can it cast a heavy nymph or wet fly, will the tip allowlarge fish to be played on cobweb thin leaders, will it cast into awind, will it keep the backcast above a high bank or brush, will itallow a quick cast to a rising fish from a boat with no false casts, canyou land a steelhead or salmon quickly enough to avoid the fish's death from exhaustion upon its release? Not only are rods used to cast anartificial fly, they are used to mend the line, control the drift of thefly, and to play a fish. All of these factors should be considered. Isuspect there are best tapers for specific purposes (tournament casting,bass plugging, dry fly fish small creeks, steelheading large rivers,etc.), and there are best all-round tapers for people who don't carry 10rods in a golf club bag (I do know people who actually carry multiplerods on the stream for specific uses....one guy uses his children ascaddys). I'm not a tournament caster. I want a rod that is pleasant tocast and enables me to control the fly well in the water and play a fishproperly. I suggested a Holbrook taper because it is makes up into a great allaround flyrod for large water fishing in the northwest (and I wanted ataper nominated from a northwestern rod builder who no longer makesrodscommercially). I also wanted a taper that has been built by a lot ofamateur rodbuilders (hundreds of people in the Seattle area have builtrods on his tapers). I have cast similar tapers in this rod length made summer steelhead fishing and yet have a tip delicate enough to playlarge rainbows on a 7X leader and not require perfect timing will suitmy needs (my casting stroke has been compared to a helicopter with abroken rotor). The Holbrook taper has been extensively used by amateurrodbuilders and was my nomination for an all around rod taper in thiscategory. If the taper needs to be submitted for consideration, I willcall the current NW Fly Anglers Club member organizing their rodbuilding class and see if anyone has a problem with my listing thesetapers. I get the feeling, looking at the taper archive, that large bamboo rodshave fallen out of favor throughout most of the country. Maybe mypreferences have dated me? Actually, I use and have built a lot of thetapers on the current list (including small rods for creek fishing andsmutting fish), but others have beaten me to the punch by recommendingthe excellent tapers of P.H. Young and other rodbuilders. One thing I'venever done is to create an original taper. Maybe that puts mynomination in its proper perspective. I'm certainly learning a lot fromthe interplay of all the creative and talented people on this list.Maybe one of these days I'll take a stab at making some semi-originaltapers and one of them will actually work the way I intended it to (or,with real luck, the laws of unintended consequences will kick in and itwill be a great taper). Rob Nielsen from LambersonW@missouri.edu Fri Dec 25 15:18:05 1998 (5.5.2232.9) "'Canerods@aol.com'" ,"'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time Merry Christmas - I'll take a moment to update thelist of nominees this afternoon while passing through the office (not bychoice unfortunately), then its back home to peruse new rodbuilding books.My mother-in-law included both Maurer and Elser's and Howell's books inmystocking. Evidently she thought I was a good boy this year. Merry Christmas to all. Bill Lamberson Young DriggsTony Young Dell CoppockYoung Para 15Tony Young Tom SmithwickYoung MidgeTony Young Davy Young PerfectionistCarsten JorgensenSir DTony Young Steve TrauthweinGarrison l93AlexGarrison 212ETom Smithwick John ZimnyGarrison 221Garrison 201ERob HoffhinesLeonard 50Rob HoffhinesLeonard 38H 7' #4` AnonymousLeonard model 50 1/2, a 8 1/2ft 3pc 5wghtPayne 98Rob HoffhinesPayne 200Rob HoffhinesGranger SpecialSteve ( from Tom maxwell)Cross BataviakillDavyCross SylphDell CoppockF. E. Thomas Browntone Light TroutDavyFE Thomas 71/2 4wtRob HoffhinesOrvis FleaAnonymousHardy C. C. deFrance or TarantinoDavyKretchman 6' 6" #3ReedHeddon 9' 2 * F 3 pc # 7/8Don BurnsFarlow made Norm Thompson 6' 2 *" 2 pc # 4/5Don BurnsDawn Holbrook 8.5' tapers for a #7 or #8lines Rob NielsenThramer 6' 472DxChris McDowellA.J. Thamer's 8' DxJohn ChannerWinston Little FellerWinston 8' #7Dell CoppockPayne 98Rob HoffhinesDickerson,8013John ChannerHardy PerfectionCarsten JorgensenMerritt Hawes 9ft 3pc 6wghtMike Clark 8ft 2pc 6wghtJohn Zimny Model 98 7 ft quadBill (fiveside) Bill Lamberson from channer@hubwest.com Fri Dec 25 18:02:42 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A80A34B0140; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:04:26 MST Subject: Re: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey At 03:38 PM 12/25/98 EST, SalarFly@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 12/25/98 12:00:28 PM Pacific Standard Time,cbogart@shentel.net writes: We started this a couple of years ago to see what kind of thingswell meaning people find for their "angling" friend or loved ones. Eachyear we come up with a very interesting items. How about the LL Bean Fly Fishing Backpack? It's really neat withrod holders down each side and a ventilated bag to put your wadingshoes in, then you clip it so it is carried outside of the pack. The waterproof stuff sack sewn inside seems like a good idea, it's big enough little bit heavy to carry for the use that it is intended, so I think that will get left behind. Neat outside pockets for extra fly boxes or reelsalso. Now I gotta perfect that bamboo backpacking rod. Darryl Guys;I got you both beat. This year I got a wooden frog that sits on the edge ofa shelf holding a fishing pole(complete with fish), last year I got astringer of wooden fish and the year begore that a marionette of afisherman with a sign on his chest that says"good things come to thosethatwade". I think I have a collection going. John from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Dec 25 20:20:28 1998 Subject: No Subject Mike,I am having trouble with responding to the list all my mail seems to goonlyto whomever posted something and I try to respond to the list. I sent arodtaper out for a 11'10" Montague salmon rod and it seems to have justdisappeared. HELP!!!!!!Bret from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Dec 25 21:43:41 1998 Subject: Re: Greatest Tapers I second the Zimny 7' quad.Best regards,Reed Bill Fink wrote: Another CandidateThe taper list could use some modern tapers. I don't have John Zimny'spermission but I would like to propose his 7 foot quad which I believe hedesignated as his Model 98.Merry Xmas and a Healthy Happy New year to all. Bill from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Dec 25 22:16:05 1998 Subject: Re: 25 or 30 best tapers of all time Steve,Regrettably, the three active braincells I still enjoy have insufficientcognitive capacity to retain accurate immpressions of each rod. A numberof usremarked at the time how different each rod action was, and all agreed onthebest-of-four.Sorry.Best regards,Reed "Dr. Steven A. Weiss" wrote: All,Chris Bogart and I were discussing the possibility of "best taperderived from a single rod" last night. We postulated that, given the tremendousnumber ofvariables (adhesive, amount of power fiber, method of cutting, heattreatment,ambient moisture, etc.), the likelihood of two makers producing thesamecastingaction was remote at best.Actually, we had an illustration of this at Grayling two years ago.Four 7'4wt. Cattenach tapers, made by four different makers were available tocast. Allhad a noticeably different feel, with one standing out as the best.Best regards,Reed Reed,Could you identify any differences among the four rods that made themfeeldifferent?Would you say that any of the four were poor? If so, were there anyobviousreasons such as craftsmanship?Steve from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Dec 25 22:29:43 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id RAA09447; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:29:49 +1300 Subject: Re: Maurer or Howell? Mark, I found Jack Howell's book excellent. It has a lot of pictures which make iteasier for the less literate like me. Waynes book is also very good , buthaving less pictures makes it harder to follow for a total new rodmakerbutit really comes in to its own for detailed reference . I have not got Maurer's yet ( Amazon sends them surface mail and it takes2months to get down here ) so are not able to comment compared to theones Ihave . Iank At 03:28 PM 23/12/98 -0600, mevans - Mark Evans wrote:I'd like to pick up another book to use in addition to Wayne's as I'mgetting started. I was thinking of getting one of the more recent workslike Maurer or Howell. I would greatly appreciate the recommendationsfromsome folks on the list. Could I ask the favor of some "IMHOs" on thesebooks? I have yet to split my first culm so I'm looking for a goodbeginners reference that includes equipment set up, etc. TIA,Mark Evans from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Dec 25 22:29:45 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id RAA09459; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:29:59 +1300 Subject: Re: No Subject Brett, The computor experts made some change to the list a few weeks ago .Someonedescribed what the change was but I did not understand what theyweretalkingabout . I picked up enough to find that if I went to "special" menu inEudora , then to "settings " , and then put a cross in the box " reply toall" it behaves like it used to ..............I think ? Iank At 09:19 PM 25/12/98 EST, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:Mike,I am having trouble with responding to the list all my mail seems to goonlyto whomever posted something and I try to respond to the list. I sent arodtaper out for a 11'10" Montague salmon rod and it seems to have justdisappeared. HELP!!!!!!Bret from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Dec 25 22:31:18 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id RAA09456; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:29:56 +1300 Subject: Re: Database, was The twenty five or thirty best tapers of alltime At 11:12 AM 24/12/98 +0800, Tony Young wrote:deleted8-1/2' to 9' of about 5-6-7 weight and you'd think he's a Kiwi looking forall those filthy big fish in very fast flowing water. Tony Now now Tony !! Shouldn't that be " wishing " rather then " you'd think" And a Merry Christmas to you too.:)) Iank PS and seeing you are throwing off at Kiwi's I thought I should tell you Icaught a 35lb kingfish this morning , but not on a cane rod :)) from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Dec 25 23:01:02 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: AFF did it David,perhaps the most popular tapers on this list are by PY.According to Arnold Gingrich he(PY) was a bit of a crank, he was neverinterested in how his rods looked, only in the weight and taper andperformanceof the cane.Glamrods are a relatively new phenomena, started by T&T, whereappearance wasmore important than performance. It has now become the accepted normbecauseT&T were the most publicized of the modern builders. Who, after allwould put aPayne style Aluminum reel seat on their rods?A bamboo rod will always be more aesthetically pleasing than a plasticrodbecause of the work involved no matter how crude.If, as you believe, there is an ability to adapt tapers taken fromclassicrods, then you must assume credit for these these 'tweeked' tapers.I started with Garrison tapers and quickly discovered they did not suitme.(never blame yourself if you cannot cast a particular rod!) I set toworkbeefing them up where I found them lacking for my casting abilities.Thesetapers are now my tapers, no longer Garrison'sThese tapers worked for me first time and I have not changed a dimensionsince.Could the tapers be improved? perhaps. There is no such thing as aperfecttaper, you cannot please all anglers with one rod.A database of classic tapers would be interesting to study. I am surethat mostof them are so close( in their catagory ) that the difference will be intheirconstruction methods.Regards, Terry Ackland David wrote: Tony You make some good points regarding flexibility and potential foradaptation, but I would propose that another reason for the respect heldbysome of the "classic" tapers is that they have for some years beenattachedto very well- made and beautiful rods. Incorporating brilliant designconcepts into an aesthetically pleasing product will do much to helpensurethe rod's survival. Davy This as well as the point made previously re. public domain andproprietyownership of a taper being difficult or almost impossible toreplicate ala PHY's own Para 15s etc compared with a car for eg. bringsabout a thought I've long had regarding tapers that have come down tobethought of as classics, take note I'm not implying this across the board.Are you ready?IMHO the reason "classics" are classics is that besides being basicalygood casting and fishing tapers, the tapers themselves allow quite a lotof variation of planing and finish.The other point is that in a lot of cases although as in PHY's case heprob didn't varnish as per Terry A there is no doubt these rods are stillgreat rods which either means they are great rods but different to theoriginals *or* cast about the same due to the reason I started with,beingthe tapers will allow for a fair bit of variation without adverslyeffecting the qualities.Possibly the best example I can think of is to compare "classic" riflecartidges.A good example here would be the Win .300 mag and the .220 Swift.The .300 mag will stand quite a wide variation of loads (even takinginto account the cartridge capacity) and even bullet weights and typesandstill come very close to the POI of every other loading variation whereasthat definately can't be said of the .220 Swift. Last I saw of things theSwift is largly on it's way out in favour to the .22/250 for much thesamereason the .300 is so popular. Both these cartridges are reasonably newsoclassics don't have to be old just good and versatile and easy to livewith. Tony Merry Christmas /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from stpete@netten.net Fri Dec 25 23:41:39 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA19235 for ;Fri, 25 Dec 1998 23:41:36 Subject: Lifespan of a Bamboo rod List, I'll pose a question that relates somewhat to the 'classic' tapersdiscussion. My Question is: How much change is there over time in the resiliency and castingperformance of a bamboo rod? Does it change noticeably over time? Whatis the given peak lifespan of a bamboo rod? Can one 'work' a rod todeath? Assume that finishing treatments are equal and that the rods werehandled and stored properly. Rick from stpete@netten.net Fri Dec 25 23:45:18 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA19357 for ;Fri, 25 Dec 1998 23:45:17 Subject: Adhesives questions List, Another question: What are your considered opinions regarding any possible differencesthat different adhesives have on rod action? Do any of you choose anadhesive based on what is does to the rod action versus its basicadhesive / sheer strength qualities? Rick from saltwein@swbell.net Sat Dec 26 06:51:36 1998 GAA21620 Subject: Re: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey To All, Received a Christmas Ornament (which means it must be displayed) with afish holding a rod, dangling an angler. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from RVenneri@aol.com Sat Dec 26 07:19:39 1998 Subject: Re: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey To All,I don't know if this qualifies but a few days before Christmas I received from a (fellow listmember) A culm of flamed and heatreated bamboo. Thisis thegift that I have been thinking about most. I really haven't had the time todoany thing with it but every time I go into my shop I look at it and dream ofwhat IM going to do with it. I received a number of gifts this year but thisone is the one that really knocked me out. Do I need mental help or what? Best Regards and Happy HolidaysBob VRobert Venneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882rvenneri@aol.comhttp://hometown.aol.com/RVenneri/index.html from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Dec 26 09:09:49 1998 Subject: Re: Lifespan of a Bamboo rod Rick,Good question. A lot of variables, though. For example, one '60's writer(I can't remember which) said rods only lasted him 18 months. Did he fishsinking lines, double-haul like crazy, or were his standards of "crispness"very high?Several others have written that they still use the same rods after 30years.Many of the rods I fish are 60-100+ years old. They are still straight,but do they still have the same action that their maker built into them?We'll never know. It's much like the Sistine Chapel, we assumed for years(centuries?) that Michelangelo's paintings were all composed in subduedtones. Only recently have we learned of the powerful hues that the artistused.Perhaps rods age gracefully with their owners?A big question is how some of the modern adhesives will hold up.Particularly, Epoxy.Best regards,Reed Rick Crenshaw wrote: List, I'll pose a question that relates somewhat to the 'classic' tapersdiscussion. My Question is: How much change is there over time in the resiliency and castingperformance of a bamboo rod? Does it change noticeably over time? Whatis the given peak lifespan of a bamboo rod? Can one 'work' a rod todeath? Assume that finishing treatments are equal and that the rods werehandled and stored properly. Rick from paullyon@epix.net Sat Dec 26 09:21:12 1998 ESMTP id KAA27504 Subject: Rodmakers in NEPA mac-creator="4D4F5353" One and all: I, a new subscriber to your e-mail community, live in northeasternPennsylvania near Scranton, Pa., and would like to know if any of youknow of other bamboo rodmakers in my area and how I might contact them.Any help would be much appreciated. Merry Christmas and tight lines! Paul Lyonpaullyon@epix.net from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Dec 26 09:32:11 1998 Subject: 11'10" Montague Redwing salmon rod/two handed List,Here is the taper I promised a few months ago, sorry it took so long but Ihave been super busy at work. This rod is 3/2 with 48" tips and mid with44"butt section. I have the butt section ferrule off and it seems to be theoriginal length for this section. The wraps are maroon with gold tippingandthe ferrules are very ornate almost like the ramrod thimbles on a fine olddouble muzzle loading shotgun. Hre is the taper.0"-.098, 5"-.112, 10"-.131, 15"-.151, 20"-.161, 25'-.173, 30"-.196, 35"-.211,40"-.227, 45"- .240, 50"-.271, 55"-.301, 60"-.319, 65"-.345, 70'-.367,75'-.378, 80'-.381, 85'-.406, 90"-.416, 95"-.422, 100"-.435, 105"-.461,110"-.497, 115'-.522, 120"-.538, 125'-.538, 130'-.538, 135"-.538, 140"-.538,145'-.538. The handle is cigar shaped 9" long with a reelseat 5.5" long andapermanent extention butt 5.75" long. The extention butt is cork with a redrubber tip, 1" thick and 1.675 diameter. This is the guide spacing Tip 0",5.75', 14.5", 23.25", 32.25", 41", 51.75', 62.25", 74.25', 86.75", 104stripper and 118.5 winding check and hookkeeper. I took thesemeasurements guess about .006.Bret from Canerods@aol.com Sat Dec 26 16:48:04 1998 Subject: Re: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey Chris, No green fish tie racks this year. (last year from my mother & father) My W/SO allowed me to buy a new 7' 4wt rod by rodmaker lister ChrisMcDowell -to be placed under the tree as Santa surprise! I guess she willing touse the Winston graphite (last year's gift) herself next year. Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Sat Dec 26 16:48:20 1998 Subject: Re: Rodmakers in NEPA In a message dated 12/26/98 7:26:14 AM Pacific Standard Time,paullyon@epix.net writes: One and all: I, a new subscriber to your e-mail community, live in northeasternPennsylvania near Scranton, Pa., and would like to know if any of youknow of other bamboo rodmakers in my area and how I might contactthem.Any help would be much appreciated. Merry Christmas and tight lines! Paul Lyon Paul, I was born in N.E. PA, live in Los Angeles these days. Get hold of Len Gorney over in Clark Summit -- lsgorney@RS01.KINGS.EDU orsurf his web page: http://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/fishing.htm I beleive he just restores bamboo rods, but he will know all about who'swhoin NEPA. Don Burns from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat Dec 26 17:22:35 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.9.1/8.7.3)with SMTP id SAA24853 for ; Sat, 26 Dec Subject: Mike Sinclair Hi, I want to get in touch with Michael Sinclair. Does anyone have an e-mail orsnail mail address for him? TIA and Happy New year-Doug Easton from mrj@aa.net Sat Dec 26 19:44:17 1998 0800 Subject: test Martin R. Jensen from stpete@netten.net Sat Dec 26 22:28:03 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA14078; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:27:55 -0600 Subject: Re: Lifespan of a Bamboo rod Reed, The reason I ask is that I was wondering if you cast, for example, a newDriggs River taper against an original PHY Driggs, would the new rod bemore true to the original design? Or would there be little differencein the performance of the original rod over time? If there is a change over time, wouldn't it make sense to keep buildingthe same rod tapers every so often? I know that the classic rods aresought after for historical value, 'collectability', and what not, butwon't the new rods perform better? OR, are rods like wine and need someyears of breaking in to really perform at the ideal? Wondering,Rick reed wrote: Rick,Good question. A lot of variables, though. For example, one '60's writer(I can't remember which) said rods only lasted him 18 months. Did hefishsinking lines, double-haul like crazy, or were his standards of"crispness"very high?Several others have written that they still use the same rods after 30years.Many of the rods I fish are 60-100+ years old. They are still straight,but do they still have the same action that their maker built into them?We'll never know. It's much like the Sistine Chapel, we assumed foryears(centuries?) that Michelangelo's paintings were all composed in subduedtones. Only recently have we learned of the powerful hues that the artistused.Perhaps rods age gracefully with their owners?A big question is how some of the modern adhesives will hold up.Particularly, Epoxy.Best regards,Reed from scottfamily@ibm.net Sat Dec 26 22:58:38 1998 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA91050 for ;Sun, 27 Dec 1998 04:58:34GMT Subject: Gordon on rods 4CC8B52DBF2AB77AA95D801E" --------------4CC8B52DBF2AB77AA95D801E I have been following the thread on the best 25 tapers and thought aword from Theodore Gordon, a man who knew a thing or two about canerods, might be in order: Published in the Fishing Gazette, 8/23/13, and quoted from McDonald'sThe Complete Fly Fisherman, p. 338. "I have been thinking of the man whowishes for the best, and will save and plan to get it, but who expectsone first-class rod to answer for all fly-fishing. He may go to anexpert for advice, and learn what said expert prefers; but that may notmean the rod best suited to his individual needs. I have been thinkingof something different.Temperament influences most men in the choice of a rod, but the type[of rod] will be developed by the conditions under which the sport ispursued. I fancy that fishing for rising trout only in a big chalk orlimestone stream and working up a big mountain river require differenttypes; also that the man of nervous temperament should have a rod ofvery quick actions, rather firm in the butt and fine in the point.Many anglers do not give their rods time enough." Gordon certainly had his personal preferences and by all accounts (andas seen in one of the few extant photographs of him) used an uncommonlylarge rod for a man who probably would not have broken one hundredpounds, soaking trousers, boots and all.. However, I believe Gordon hiton the essence of this argument: "best" is a vague and indefinitemeasure without clear and defined context with which to makecomparisonsand analysis. What, he seems to be saying 85 years ago, is best for one set ofrequirements is ill suited for another. Perhaps the discussion of "best" tapers might be more profitably engagedafter a definition of conditions is arrived at? Interesting thread though, regardless. Regards,Michael Scott --------------4CC8B52DBF2AB77AA95D801E I have been following the thread on the best 25 tapers and thought a word from Theodore Gordon, a man who knew a thing or two about cane rods,mightbe in order: Published in the Fishing Gazette, 8/23/13, and quoted fromMcDonald'sThe Complete Fly Fisherman, p. 338. "I have been thinking of theman who wishes for the best, and will save and plan to get it, but who go to an expert for advice, and learn what said expert prefers; but that have been thinking of something different. ofa rod, but the type [of rod] will be developed by the conditions underwhich the sport is pursued. I fancy that fishing for rising trout onlyin a big chalk or limestone stream and working up a big mountain riverrequire different types; also that the man of nervous temperament shouldhave a rod of very quick actions, rather firm in the butt and fine in thepoint.Many anglers do not give their rods time enough." Gordon certainly had his personal preferences and by all accounts (andas seen in one of the few extant photographs of him) used an uncommonlylarge rod for a man who probably would not have broken one hundredpounds,soaking trousers, boots and all.. However, I believe Gordon hit on theessence of this argument: "best" is a vague and indefinite measure withoutclear and defined context with which to make comparisons and analysis. What, he seems to be saying 85 years ago, is best for one set ofrequirementsis ill suited for another. Perhaps the discussion of "best" tapers might be more profitablyengagedafter a definition of conditions is arrived at? Interesting thread though, regardless. Regards,Michael Scott --------------4CC8B52DBF2AB77AA95D801E-- from trout@ricochet.net Sun Dec 27 01:50:47 1998 Subject: Re: Lifespan of a Bamboo rod mac-creator="4D4F5353" Every 5 years or so, I've physically measured the stress under a controlledload at different stations of rods I've built. I built my first rodsaround 30 years ago. Most of the older ones are doing just fine afterseveral decades of use. However a few of the faster ones with fine tipsare beginning to soften and the butt of a Ritz style parabolic is alsostarting to change. One of these days I'll accidentally break one of thesetips and put it under an electron microscope to see what's happening but Isuspect the power fibers are either gradually failing or loosening fromtheir surrounding matrix. I can't say how long it would take to break downthe action of a good progressive with a medium action or a semi- parabolic,but I suspect they will last longer than my lifetime if treated right, withno significant change. Of course, if you play really large fish and do alot of double-hauls that bend the rod deeply for extended periods, maybeyou'll wear out a rod faster than me. I tend to use a rod big enough toget the job done and don't like to play fish for excessive periods of timeif I plan on releasing them. Rob Nielsen Rick Crenshaw wrote: List, I'll pose a question that relates somewhat to the 'classic' tapersdiscussion. My Question is: How much change is there over time in the resiliency and castingperformance of a bamboo rod? Does it change noticeably over time? Whatis the given peak lifespan of a bamboo rod? Can one 'work' a rod todeath? Assume that finishing treatments are equal and that the rods werehandled and stored properly. Rick from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Dec 27 05:20:57 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Just a test Just wonder if I get this myself - not much going on, is there? regards, Carsten from gerry56@cnl.com.au Sun Dec 27 05:50:56 1998 Subject: Tonkin cane in australia boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01BE31EB.A69041A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BE31EB.A69041A0 Could anybody please tell me of any tonkin cane suppliers in Australia Thanks Gerry ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BE31EB.A69041A0 Could anybody please tell me ofany = suppliers in Australia ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BE31EB.A69041A0-- from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun Dec 27 09:45:39 1998 (EudoraInternet Mail Server 2.2); Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:45:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Greatest Tapers Yup....I would have to put in my vote or John's rod as well. After all, itwas the rod I used to catch my first trout out of junction pool. (Bill andDan can back me up on this.) Take care, Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Greatest Tapers I second the Zimny 7' quad.Best regards,Reed Bill Fink wrote: Another CandidateThe taper list could use some modern tapers. I don't have John Zimny'spermission but I would like to propose his 7 foot quad which I believehedesignated as his Model 98.Merry Xmas and a Healthy Happy New year to all. Bill from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun Dec 27 09:49:03 1998 (EudoraInternet Mail Server 2.2); Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:48:41 -0500 Subject: Re: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey How about half of a little boat? Mom bought this little boat which hasshelves built it. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- Subject: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey To All We started this a couple of years ago to see what kind of thingswell meaning people find for their "angling" friend or loved ones. Eachyear we come up with a very interesting items. Getting the new Lie Nielsen 9 and 1/2 block plane disqualifies youbut getting a ceramic fishing basket that holds candy qualifies youthanksthis year to my sister-in-law. Good try but the candy was better than thebasket - but we got to put these things out else somebody isdisappointed. Regards Chris from hhholland@erols.com Sun Dec 27 10:43:16 1998 Subject: Re: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey Among the things I truly wanted (i.e. George Maurer's new book) were: (1)Alittle wooden sign that says "I'm in heaven when I'm fishing" with aboat- shaped object hung below it. The boat-shaped object has hooks and atrawl net hanging off it. (2) A little ceramic scene of a SantaClaus-looking guy with hooks, lures, etc. on his hat. He's sitting on adock with a boat rod in his hand with a big green fish hanging off of it.(3) A stamped and painted metal fisherman sitting on a rock holding abait-casting rod with another big green fish hanging off it. The thing hasa coat-hook protruding from it, so I can hang it on the wall and hang myrain jacket from it, I guess. The funny thing is that none of them weremeant as jokes. Maybe it IS truly better to give than to receive! Seasons greetings, Happy Holidays, and Happy New Year to all! Hank H. -----Original Message----- Subject: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey To All We started this a couple of years ago to see what kind of thingswell meaning people find for their "angling" friend or loved ones. Eachyear we come up with a very interesting items. from FlyTyr@southshore.com Sun Dec 27 11:32:39 1998 natco.southshore.com(8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA24719 for ;Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:34:13-0600 (Win95; I) Subject: Re: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey I got four new fishing Santas to add to my collection. Two of them have"flies"in their hats.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Hank Holland wrote: Among the things I truly wanted (i.e. George Maurer's new book) were: (1)Alittle wooden sign that says "I'm in heaven when I'm fishing" with aboat- shaped object hung below it. The boat-shaped object has hooks andatrawl net hanging off it. (2) A little ceramic scene of a SantaClaus-looking guy with hooks, lures, etc. on his hat. He's sitting on adock with a boat rod in his hand with a big green fish hanging off of it.(3) A stamped and painted metal fisherman sitting on a rock holding abait-casting rod with another big green fish hanging off it. The thinghasa coat-hook protruding from it, so I can hang it on the wall and hang myrain jacket from it, I guess. The funny thing is that none of them weremeant as jokes. Maybe it IS truly better to give than to receive! Seasons greetings, Happy Holidays, and Happy New Year to all! Hank H. -----Original Message-----From: cbogart Date: Friday, December 25, 1998 6:00 PMSubject: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey To All We started this a couple of years ago to see what kind of thingswell meaning people find for their "angling" friend or loved ones. Eachyear we come up with a very interesting items. from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Dec 27 12:24:14 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AD97BD50152; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:33:59 PDT Subject: Re: Lifespan of a Bamboo rod Hi Rob Maybe Max Satoh would have some insight as one who lives in a culture inwhich bamboohas long general applicatioon. My gut feeling is that few long- termfailures will beaccountable to the cane itself. Bamboo is truly amazing stuff, and I'dsuspect the gluesconstruction processes first in most cases. Davy Every 5 years or so, I've physically measured the stress under acontrolledload at different stations of rods I've built. I built my first rodsaround 30 years ago. Most of the older ones are doing just fine afterseveral decades of use. However a few of the faster ones with fine tipsare beginning to soften and the butt of a Ritz style parabolic is alsostarting to change. One of these days I'll accidentally break one of thesetips and put it under an electron microscope to see what's happening but Isuspect the power fibers are either gradually failing or loosening fromtheir surrounding matrix. I can't say how long it would take to breakdownthe action of a good progressive with a medium action or a semi- parabolic,but I suspect they will last longer than my lifetime if treated right, withno significant change. Of course, if you play really large fish and do alot of double-hauls that bend the rod deeply for extended periods, maybeyou'll wear out a rod faster than me. I tend to use a rod big enough toget the job done and don't like to play fish for excessive periods of timeif I plan on releasing them. Rob Nielsen Rick Crenshaw wrote: List, I'll pose a question that relates somewhat to the 'classic' tapersdiscussion. My Question is: How much change is there over time in the resiliency and castingperformance of a bamboo rod? Does it change noticeably over time? Whatis the given peak lifespan of a bamboo rod? Can one 'work' a rod todeath? Assume that finishing treatments are equal and that the rods werehandled and stored properly. Rick from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Dec 27 12:43:21 1998 Subject: Re: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey HankIt is amazing, I never go looking for fishing trinkets but I guess appreciatedsince they have either a fish or fishing symbol on them. Each year in the survey new and ever more interesting gifts surface. Chris On Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:41:58 -0200, Hank Holland wrote: Among the things I truly wanted (i.e. George Maurer's new book) were: (1)Alittle wooden sign that says "I'm in heaven when I'm fishing" with aboat- shaped object hung below it. The boat-shaped object has hooks andatrawl net hanging off it. (2) A little ceramic scene of a SantaClaus-looking guy with hooks, lures, etc. on his hat. He's sitting on adock with a boat rod in his hand with a big green fish hanging off of it.(3) A stamped and painted metal fisherman sitting on a rock holding abait-casting rod with another big green fish hanging off it. The thing hasa coat-hook protruding from it, so I can hang it on the wall and hang myrain jacket from it, I guess. The funny thing is that none of them weremeant as jokes. Maybe it IS truly better to give than to receive! Seasons greetings, Happy Holidays, and Happy New Year to all! Hank H. -----Original Message-----From: cbogart Date: Friday, December 25, 1998 6:00 PMSubject: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey To All We started this a couple of years ago to see what kind of thingswell meaning people find for their "angling" friend or loved ones. Eachyear we come up with a very interesting items. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Dec 27 13:12:29 1998 trout@ricochet.net, stpete@netten.net Subject: Re: Re: Lifespan of a Bamboo rod List,As some of you know I am in construction. Well awhile back I saw a neatarticle in one of the trade journals about bamboo being made intoscaffoldingin I believe it was Japan. You have to go thru a very intense training to bequalified to do this job as peoples lives depend on what you build. Theywenton to talk about a very big monsoon hitting Japan and how all the metalscaffold that was put up was bent into pretzels and how all of it wastotallydestroyed but the bamboo scaffolding showed no signs of weakness or anydamageat all. Now I am just speculating here but with this info about bamboosxaffolding being so tuff and resiliant my own personal guess would bethatbamboo rods will enjoy a very long lifespan if it is not used to derrick uphalibut from the bottom of the ocean or abused in any other way.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Dec 27 13:14:54 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Re: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey I got a fishing vest ornament a fishing santa or two a couple of fishingornaments a boat ornament and Maures book.Bret from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Dec 27 13:28:20 1998 Subject: Re: Lifespan of a Bamboo rod BretThere is a terrific picture of this scaffolding in Luis Marden's classicOct 1982 National Geographic article on Bamboo. The picture was taken inHong Kong of a high rise building. truly Amazing. Chris On Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:11:43 EST, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: List,As some of you know I am in construction. Well awhile back I saw a neatarticle in one of the trade journals about bamboo being made intoscaffoldingin I believe it was Japan. You have to go thru a very intense training tobequalified to do this job as peoples lives depend on what you build. Theywenton to talk about a very big monsoon hitting Japan and how all the metalscaffold that was put up was bent into pretzels and how all of it wastotallydestroyed but the bamboo scaffolding showed no signs of weakness or anydamageat all. Now I am just speculating here but with this info about bamboosxaffolding being so tuff and resiliant my own personal guess would bethatbamboo rods will enjoy a very long lifespan if it is not used to derrick uphalibut from the bottom of the ocean or abused in any other way.Bret from SBDunn@aol.com Sun Dec 27 15:29:26 1998 Subject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine I know some copies of issue #4 have apparently shown up in some of theshops-- will the subscribers ever get them or should I give up and go buy one? Hasanyone received theirs in the mail? from mevans@acxiom.com Sun Dec 27 15:54:13 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey How about two fingerling wood fish, connected at the mouth by a rope - except the rope isbroken! from anglport@con2.com Sun Dec 27 16:50:37 1998 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey Chris,Don't you want "interesting" in quotes?Art At 01:44 PM 12/27/98 -0500, cbogart wrote:Hank Each year in the survey new and ever more interesting gifts surface. Chris On Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:41:58 -0200, Hank Holland wrote: Among the things I truly wanted (i.e. George Maurer's new book) were: (1)Alittle wooden sign that says "I'm in heaven when I'm fishing" with aboat- shaped object hung below it. The boat-shaped object has hooks andatrawl net hanging off it. (2) A little ceramic scene of a SantaClaus-looking guy with hooks, lures, etc. on his hat. He's sitting on adock with a boat rod in his hand with a big green fish hanging off of it.(3) A stamped and painted metal fisherman sitting on a rock holding abait-casting rod with another big green fish hanging off it. The thinghasa coat-hook protruding from it, so I can hang it on the wall and hang myrain jacket from it, I guess. The funny thing is that none of them weremeant as jokes. Maybe it IS truly better to give than to receive! Seasons greetings, Happy Holidays, and Happy New Year to all! Hank H. -----Original Message-----From: cbogart Date: Friday, December 25, 1998 6:00 PMSubject: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey To All We started this a couple of years ago to see what kind of thingswell meaning people find for their "angling" friend or loved ones. Eachyear we come up with a very interesting items. from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sun Dec 27 17:34:02 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine Don't give up. I have a stack so they are available. Regards, Bob On Sun, 27 Dec 1998 SBDunn@aol.com wrote: I know some copies of issue #4 have apparently shown up in some of theshops-- will the subscribers ever get them or should I give up and go buy one? Hasanyone received theirs in the mail? from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Dec 27 20:41:57 1998 LambersonW@missouri.edu, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Database, was The twenty five or thirty best tapers of alltime Davy,Considering that some of the top 25 or 30 tapers (or maybe all) aresubjective in their evaluation maybe we're just indulging ourselves. Thequestion in my mind is " top 25 or 30 tapers for what use?". I've caststraight line tapers, paras, compound tapers and I find I like most of theones I cast. I didn't like the Payne 102 at first and then learned to cast itand like it a lot. Whether it should be on the top list is a purely subjectivechoice. Just my $.02.Regards,Hank W. from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Dec 27 21:53:35 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A2C3F130146; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 20:02:11 PDT , Subject: Re: Database, was The twenty five or thirty best tapers of alltime Dear Hank Well, I had thought this was basically a diversion (primarily for the poorsouls whodon't have flyfishing this time of year :-) and maybe a chance for us toclarify our ownthoughts about what we thought were good tapers and qualities thereof. It's always a good exercise as we are then focused more clearly when westartdesigning (or selecting) the taper for our next rod. I don't think we'reabout to doanything definitive here, but it is interesting. Now I want even moreintensely to trysome of those rods which I never have cast! Davy Davy,Considering that some of the top 25 or 30 tapers (or maybe all) aresubjective in their evaluation maybe we're just indulging ourselves. Thequestion in my mind is " top 25 or 30 tapers for what use?". I've caststraight line tapers, paras, compound tapers and I find I like most of theones I cast. I didn't like the Payne 102 at first and then learned to castitand like it a lot. Whether it should be on the top list is a purelysubjectivechoice. Just my $.02.Regards,Hank W. from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Mon Dec 28 00:05:24 1998 mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id WAA24327;Sun, 27 Dec 1998 22:05:16 Subject: Re: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey Hank Holland wrote: Among the things I truly wanted (i.e. George Maurer's new book) were: (1)Alittle wooden sign that says "I'm in heaven when I'm fishing" with aboat- shaped object hung below it. The boat-shaped object has hooks andatrawl net hanging off it. (2) A little ceramic scene of a SantaClaus-looking guy with hooks, lures, etc. on his hat. He's sitting on adock with a boat rod in his hand with a big green fish hanging off of it.(3) A stamped and painted metal fisherman sitting on a rock holding abait-casting rod with another big green fish hanging off it. The thinghasa coat-hook protruding from it, so I can hang it on the wall and hang myrain jacket from it, I guess. The funny thing is that none of them weremeant as jokes. Maybe it IS truly better to give than to receive! Seasons greetings, Happy Holidays, and Happy New Year to all! Hank H. -----Original Message-----From: cbogart Date: Friday, December 25, 1998 6:00 PMSubject: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey To All We started this a couple of years ago to see what kind of thingswell meaning people find for their "angling" friend or loved ones. Eachyear we come up with a very interesting items. I got a bunch of 12' peices of bamboo and a scraper plane. I guessletting SWMBO read last years "Christmas survey" paid off. I only gotgifts that were practical and needed.Traver Becker from mauro_carrara@email.msn.com Mon Dec 28 01:56:52 1998 (may be forged)) Microsoft SMTPSVC;Sun, 27 Dec 1998 23:56:27 -0800 Subject: Re: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey I've got the G12-020 I've been looking for in almost every store of the bayarea... of course my soon-to-be wife found it in the OSH across the road from where I live. Mauro. from maxs@geocities.co.jp Mon Dec 28 06:07:40 1998 mail.geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id VAA03023; Mon, 28 Dec1998 21:07:14 +0900 (JST) Rodmakers Listproc Subject: Re: Lifespan of a Bamboo rod Hi Davy, Rob, and all, Your insight of reference to me is appreciated. Unfortunately I haven'tlive on this land more than 52 years. Well, Anything cannot have an eternal life. Animal, Men (and women), beauty,even the space cannot stay as it is for ever. Bamboo fly rod neither. It is said that a family of bamboo canes like a forest, can live innatural environment for about 60 years. Periodically (every some sixtyyears) bamboo forest will entirely die out when they have flowers on it.(There was the case in China and Panda suffered from foods) Did youknow bamboo has flower? from ancient, it has been said, when you seebamboo flowers, it is the symbol of bad fortune. Well, A bamboo cane while it is alive naturally, it is said that one bambooplant can live about 10 years. the bamboo around 2 to 4 years of age and dry it for 2~3 years further. You had better to ask this to Mr. Demarest or Mr. Royer. Well, I do not think that dried bamboo cane, planed bamboo strips and bamboorod themselves necesarilyhave a longer life in comparison to wood in a long range of some hundredyears. Bamboo cane will also have natural break in dried air in winter,and it will also be rotten like other materials in natural environment, The protection against these natural factors in a short range is anenamel on the surface, IMHO. That is natural coating. Do you knowother plant that has own coating on the surface? Bamboo is a kind ofspecial plant. It will shut off water to get inside. Node system will protect eachinternodal area not to haveentire break even one nodal area has a split naturally. The taper ofthe cane is a solid eligible structure from the view point of power or force mechanism. (So hollowedrod has some reason of strength IMHO) Well, I have some Japanese fishing rods (not for fly fishing) which my father(82) bought while he was around 30. They are completely as they weremade even though they have been used considerably. It is coated withUrushi and has been kept in normal room temperature. There are some other examples which can survive for a long time. Fivelayered tower house ofJapanese temple, it keeps standing for more than 200 years. (woodmaterials were varnished with persimmon oil in old days). Urushivarnished wood ware for more than 300 years. In China, in Tibet and inEgypt, a noble person's body berried in a completly air shut-off stonecoffin, or covered in some kind of varnish still have some fresh on it The key is the coat. Of-course, bamboo itself has its strength in itsnature. Strong and toughlife power. When we want our rod to be used in our grand-grand-grand children era,we have to consider more about how we coat the rod. I recommendUrushi, it is a living varnish. Can someone answer how long Polyurethane lives or Epoxy lives? Howabout Nickel Silver Ferrules or cork? All IMHO. Max David wrote: Hi Rob Maybe Max Satoh would have some insight as one who lives in a cultureinwhich bamboohas long general applicatioon. My gut feeling is that few long- termfailures will beaccountable to the cane itself. Bamboo is truly amazing stuff, and I'dsuspect the gluesconstruction processes first in most cases. Davy Every 5 years or so, I've physically measured the stress under acontrolledload at different stations of rods I've built. I built my first rodsaround 30 years ago. Most of the older ones are doing just fine afterseveral decades of use. However a few of the faster ones with fine tipsare beginning to soften and the butt of a Ritz style parabolic is alsostarting to change. One of these days I'll accidentally break one ofthesetips and put it under an electron microscope to see what's happening butIsuspect the power fibers are either gradually failing or loosening fromtheir surrounding matrix. I can't say how long it would take to breakdownthe action of a good progressive with a medium action or a semi- parabolic,but I suspect they will last longer than my lifetime if treated right,withno significant change. Of course, if you play really large fish and do alot of double-hauls that bend the rod deeply for extended periods, maybeyou'll wear out a rod faster than me. I tend to use a rod big enough toget the job done and don't like to play fish for excessive periods oftimeif I plan on releasing them. Rob Nielsen Rick Crenshaw wrote: List, I'll pose a question that relates somewhat to the 'classic' tapersdiscussion. My Question is: How much change is there over time in the resiliency and castingperformance of a bamboo rod? Does it change noticeably over time? Whatis the given peak lifespan of a bamboo rod? Can one 'work' a rod todeath? Assume that finishing treatments are equal and that the rods werehandled and stored properly. Rick -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from RBalex@webtv.net Mon Dec 28 06:39:42 1998 105.iap.bryant.webtv.net 232.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id 232.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) ETAsAhRbjtN+UZV1nBE/WX71uPR4C819gAIUaQm5gLIQD8qI+7DJFqRcCtjiXVM= Subject: Lost name of responder/4ft rod Thanks to the gentleman who responded to my request for a four foottaper/ My finger tripped on the keyboard and your name is insidesomewhere/ and I am not a computer surgeon so this is the only way I canthank you. Thanks------Alexps I did ge t th numbers written down b4 tripping. from LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV Mon Dec 28 08:07:37 1998 Subject: Planning form Hello All,Happy Holiday.I was wondering if there are anyones out there who have purchased andusedthe planning forms from Colorado Bootstraps or Wagner's. What are yourthoughts on the forms, and should I spend the extra bucks to get the mostexpensive forms for hobbie in rodbuliding. Thanks.Andy from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Dec 28 08:20:27 1998 (modemcable126.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, Subject: BOEGEMAN lathe BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_LyOljVEftQgS+kZCdRI4+w)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_LyOljVEftQgS+kZCdRI4+w) Has anyone bought one of those J.C. BOEGEMAN metal lathes advertised inThePlaning Form? If so, any reviews off list would be much appreciated. Thanks, Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 --Boundary_(ID_LyOljVEftQgS+kZCdRI4+w) anyone bought one of those J.C. BOEGEMAN = advertised in The Planing Form? If so, any reviews off list would be = appreciated. Thanks, Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 --Boundary_(ID_LyOljVEftQgS+kZCdRI4+w)-- from LambersonW@missouri.edu Mon Dec 28 08:35:42 1998 (5.5.2232.9) "'Canerods@aol.com'" ,"'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time Thus far, 34 tapers are on the list of nominees for the 25 or 30 best of alltime. The Young Para 15 and the Young Midge received the mostnominations.A half-dozen are from contemporary makers. Are their other nominees? The three tapers chosen for my first rods were among the first fewnominated. A pair of Young Midges is in the string and a trio of Driggs islaid out ready to glue. I think a Dickerson 8013 is next on the list forme. Bill Young Driggs Tony Young Dell CoppockYoung Para 15 Tony Young Tom SmithwickYoung Midge Tony Young Davy Young Perfectionist Carsten JorgensenSir D Tony Young Steve TrauthweinGarrison l93 AlexGarrison 212E Tom Smithwick John ZimnyGarrison 221Garrison 201E Rob HoffhinesLeonard 50 Rob HoffhinesLeonard 38H 7' #4 AnonymousLeonard model 50 1/2, a 8 1/2ft 3pc 5wghtPayne 98 Rob HoffhinesPayne 200 Rob HoffhinesGranger Special Steve ( from Tom Maxwell)Cross Bataviakill DavyCross Sylph Dell CoppockF. E. Thomas Browntone Light Trout DavyFE Thomas 71/2 4wt Rob HoffhinesOrvis Flea AnonymousHardy C. C. deFrance or Tarantino DavyKretchman 6' 6" #3 ReedHeddon 9' 2 * F 3 pc # 7/8 Don BurnsFarlow made Norm Thompson 6' 2 *" 2 pc # 4/5 Don BurnsDawn Holbrook 8.5' tapers for a #7 or #8 lines Rob NielsenThramer 6' 472Dx Chris McDowellA.J. Thamer's 8' Dx John ChannerWinston Little FellerWinston 8' #7 Dell CoppockDickerson 8013 John ChannerHardy Perfection Carsten JorgensenMerritt Hawes 9ft 3pc 6wghtMike Clark 8ft 2pc 6wghtJohn Zimny Model 98 7 ft quad Bill (fiveside) Reed from waverdr@bellatlantic.net Mon Dec 28 08:59:33 1998 Subject: fly rod value? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE32AD.32DC9340" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE32AD.32DC9340 Hi I'm looking for any information that you may have on a companycalled E.F. Payne Rod Makers Co.. I have what looks like a bamboo flyrod with that company info on it, and I am just trying to find outwhat it is worth? Also this rod was given to me after the death of my grandfather, hehad alot of stuff he never used and this was one...it could be old &actually probably is, as he was 85 when he died in 1989...and wasn't It is in what looks like the original cloth holder and metal tube, about =8 1/2'long 2 tips(one with plastic fitting in last (linehole?)(this one is actually about 3" shorter than the other tip)) , no chips =in thevarnish(deep brown in color) over all it looks brand new. I know youprobably wont be able to give me an exact amount that it could be worth, = but a idea would be greatly appreciated! Or at least any info on the = How would I be able to figure out if it is an original?How would I be able to figure out what size line it throws?Also do you have any idea on how I can find out the model number?(I looked but didnt see anything on the pole but the company name) Thanks,John ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE32AD.32DC9340 Hi I'm looking for any information that you may have on a = E.F. Payne Rod Makers Co.. I have what looks like a bamboo flyrod = my = grandfather, hehad alot of stuff he never used and this was one...it = be old &actually probably is, as he was 85 when he died in = wasn'tfishing for at least a good 10-20 yrs before he died. It is in what looks like the original cloth holder and metal tube, = 1/2'long 2 tips(one with plastic fitting in last (linehole?)(this one is actually about 3" shorter than the other tip)) , = in thevarnish(deep brown in color) over all it looks brand new. I know =youprobably wont be able to give me an exact amount that it could be = but a idea would be greatly appreciated! Or at least any info on = maker... How would I be able to figure out if it is an = would I be able to figure out what size line it throws?Also do you = on the pole but the company name) Thanks,John ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE32AD.32DC9340-- from ragnarig@integrityol.com Mon Dec 28 10:17:31 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A152AB90112; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 08:26:58 PDT "Rodmakers Listproc" Subject: Re: Lifespan of a Bamboo rod I'm forwarding this as it came to my personal box when Max replied. Veryinteresting. Hi Davy, Rob, and all, Your insight of reference to me is appreciated. Unfortunately I haven'tlive on this land more than52 years. Well, Anything cannot have an eternal life. Animal, Men (and women), beauty,even the space cannot stay as it is for ever. Bamboo fly rod neither. It is said that a family of bamboo canes like a forest, can live innatural environment for about 60 years. Periodically (every some sixtyyears) bamboo forest will entirely die out when they have flowers on it.(There was the case in China and Panda suffered from foods) Did youknow bamboo has flower? from ancient, it has been said, when you seebamboo flowers, it is the symbol of bad fortune. Well, A bamboo cane while it is alive naturally, it is said that one bambooplant can live about 10 years. the bamboo around 2 to 4 years of age and dry it for 2~3 years further.You had better to ask this to Mr. Demarest or Mr. Royer. Well, I do not think that dried bamboo cane, planed bamboo strips and bamboorod themselves necesarilyhave a longer life in comparison to wood in a long range of some hundredyears. Bamboo cane will also have natural break in dried air in winter,and it will also be rotten like other materials in natural environment, The protection against these natural factors in a short range is anenamel on the surface, IMHO. That is natural coating. Do you knowother plant that has own coating on the surface? Bamboo is a kind ofspecial plant. It will shut off water to get inside. Node system will protect eachinternodal area not to haveentire break even one nodal area has a split naturally. The taper ofthe cane is a solid eligiblestructure from the view point of power or force mechanism. (Sohollowedrod has some reason of strength IMHO) Well, I have some Japanese fishing rods (not for fly fishing) which my father(82) bought while he was around 30. They are completely as they weremade even though they have been used considerably. It is coated withUrushi and has been kept in normal room temperature. There are some other examples which can survive for a long time. Fivelayered tower house ofJapanese temple, it keeps standing for more than 200 years. (woodmaterials were varnished with persimmon oil in old days). Urushivarnished wood ware for more than 300 years. In China, in Tibet and inEgypt, a noble person's body berried in a completly air shut-off stonecoffin, or covered in some kind of varnish still have some fresh on it The key is the coat. Of-course, bamboo itself has its strength in itsnature. Strong and toughlife power. When we want our rod to be used in our grand-grand-grand children era,we have to consider more about how we coat the rod. I recommendUrushi, it is a living varnish. Can someone answer how long Polyurethane lives or Epoxy lives? Howabout Nickel Silver Ferrules or cork? All IMHO. Max David wrote: Hi Rob Maybe Max Satoh would have some insight as one who lives in a cultureinwhich bamboohas long general applicatioon. My gut feeling is that few long- termfailures will beaccountable to the cane itself. Bamboo is truly amazing stuff, and I'dsuspect the gluesconstruction processes first in most cases. Davy Every 5 years or so, I've physically measured the stress under acontrolledload at different stations of rods I've built. I built my first rodsaround 30 years ago. Most of the older ones are doing just fine afterseveral decades of use. However a few of the faster ones with finetipsare beginning to soften and the butt of a Ritz style parabolic is alsostarting to change. One of these days I'll accidentally break one ofthesetips and put it under an electron microscope to see what's happeningbutIsuspect the power fibers are either gradually failing or loosening fromtheir surrounding matrix. I can't say how long it would take to breakdownthe action of a good progressive with a medium action or asemi- parabolic,but I suspect they will last longer than my lifetime if treated right,withno significant change. Of course, if you play really large fish and doalot of double-hauls that bend the rod deeply for extended periods,maybeyou'll wear out a rod faster than me. I tend to use a rod big enough toget the job done and don't like to play fish for excessive periods oftimeif I plan on releasing them. Rob Nielsen Rick Crenshaw wrote: List, I'll pose a question that relates somewhat to the 'classic' tapersdiscussion. My Question is: How much change is there over time in the resiliency and castingperformance of a bamboo rod? Does it change noticeably over time?Whatis the given peak lifespan of a bamboo rod? Can one 'work' a rod todeath? Assume that finishing treatments are equal and that the rods werehandled and stored properly. Rick --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from rcurry@top.monad.net Mon Dec 28 10:31:32 1998 Subject: Re: fly rod value? John,Even without the exact model number we can make some guesstimates.The conditions which determine value, in order, are1/ Maker - Ed, or his son Jim?2/ Length - size does matter, but smaller is better.3/ Condition - Original wraps, varnish, guides, bag, tube, etc.4/ Action - Perhaps one of the (unfairly) less popular earlywetfly actions.5/ Market conditions - the Japanese were inflating prices, butthis may be in abeyance for now. As a safe guess, I would say your rod is worth $900; but dependingon the parameters mentioned above, it could be worth considerably more.I would send the rod to Bob Corsetti, a reputable New Hampshire dealer, Best regards,Reed John wrote: Hi I'm looking for any information that you may have on a companycalled E.F. Payne Rod Makers Co.. I have what looks like a bamboo flyrod with that company info on it, and I am just trying to find outwhat it is worth? Also this rod was given to me after the death of my grandfather, hehad alot of stuff he never used and this was one...it could be old &actually probably is, as he was 85 when he died in 1989...and wasn'tfishing for at least a good 10-20 yrs before he died. It is in whatlooks like the original cloth holder and metal tube, about 8 1/2'long 2 tips(one with plastic fitting in last (linehole?)(this one isactually about 3" shorter than the other tip)) , no chips inthevarnish(deep brown in color) over all it looks brand new. I knowyouprobably wont be able to give me an exact amount that it could beworth,but a idea would be greatly appreciated! Or at least any info onthe maker... How would I be able to figure out if it is an original?How would I be able to figure out what size line it throws?Also do you have any idea on how I can find out the model number?(I looked but didnt see anything on the pole but the companyname) Thanks,John from rcurry@top.monad.net Mon Dec 28 10:52:24 1998 Subject: Re: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time Bill, "Bill"is the illustrious Bill Fink, a.k.a., "Pentium II".This reminds me, has anyone ever cast a Uslan that was well made andpleasing in the hand?Best regards,Reed "Lamberson, William R." wrote: Thus far, 34 tapers are on the list of nominees for the 25 or 30 best ofalltime. The Young Para 15 and the Young Midge received the mostnominations.A half-dozen are from contemporary makers. Are their other nominees? The three tapers chosen for my first rods were among the first fewnominated. A pair of Young Midges is in the string and a trio of Driggs islaid out ready to glue. I think a Dickerson 8013 is next on the list forme. Bill Young Driggs Tony Young Dell CoppockYoung Para 15 Tony Young Tom SmithwickYoung Midge Tony Young DavyYoung Perfectionist Carsten JorgensenSir D Tony Young Steve TrauthweinGarrison l93 AlexGarrison 212E Tom Smithwick John ZimnyGarrison 221Garrison 201E Rob HoffhinesLeonard 50 Rob HoffhinesLeonard 38H 7' #4 AnonymousLeonard model 50 1/2, a 8 1/2ft 3pc 5wghtPayne 98 Rob HoffhinesPayne 200 Rob HoffhinesGranger Special Steve ( from Tom Maxwell)Cross Bataviakill DavyCross Sylph Dell CoppockF. E. Thomas Browntone Light Trout DavyFE Thomas 71/2 4wt Rob HoffhinesOrvis Flea AnonymousHardy C. C. deFrance or Tarantino DavyKretchman 6' 6" #3 ReedHeddon 9' 2 * F 3 pc # 7/8 Don BurnsFarlow made Norm Thompson 6' 2 *" 2 pc # 4/5 Don BurnsDawn Holbrook 8.5' tapers for a #7 or #8 lines Rob NielsenThramer 6' 472Dx Chris McDowellA.J. Thamer's 8' Dx John ChannerWinston Little FellerWinston 8' #7 Dell CoppockDickerson 8013 John ChannerHardy Perfection Carsten JorgensenMerritt Hawes 9ft 3pc 6wghtMike Clark 8ft 2pc 6wghtJohn Zimny Model 98 7 ft quad Bill (fiveside) Reed from morten@flash.net Mon Dec 28 11:36:18 1998 Subject: Re: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time Bill,I feel a member of the Ritz Parabolic rods from Pezon & Michel belongsin the 25 to 30 best taper group. I have made:P&M Ritz Parabolic PPP Colorado 7'7" #5, I love it.I used to own:original P&M Ritz Super Parabolic PPP Master Type Lambiotte 8'3" #5: Agreat rod.Another famous rod:P&M Super Parabolic PPP Fario Club Type Ritz 8'3" # 6.All these rods have very similar action (taper). Just a vote from a Parholic.Morten Lovstad-- 3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten/index.htm from LambersonW@missouri.edu Mon Dec 28 13:38:58 1998 (5.5.2232.9) "'Canerods@aol.com'" ,"'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time -----Original Message-----From: Lamberson, William R. Sent: Monday, December 28, 1998 8:36 AM 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers ofall time Thus far, 34 tapers are on the list of nominees for the 25or 30 best of alltime. The Young Para 15 and the Young Midge received themost nominations.A half-dozen are from contemporary makers. Are their othernominees? The three tapers chosen for my first rods were among thefirst fewnominated. A pair of Young Midges is in the string and atrio of Driggs islaid out ready to glue. I think a Dickerson 8013 is next onthe list forme. Bill Young Driggs Tony Young Dell CoppockYoung Para 15 Tony Young TomSmithwickYoung Midge Tony Young Davy Young Perfectionist Carsten JorgensenSir D Tony Young Steve TrauthweinGarrison l93 AlexGarrison 212E Tom Smithwick John ZimnyGarrison 221Garrison 201E Rob HoffhinesLeonard 50 Rob HoffhinesLeonard 38H 7' #4 AnonymousLeonard model 50 1/2, a 8 1/2ft 3pc 5wghtPayne 98 Rob HoffhinesPayne 200 Rob HoffhinesGranger Special Steve ( from TomMaxwell)Cross Bataviakill DavyCross Sylph Dell CoppockF. E. Thomas Browntone Light Trout DavyFE Thomas 71/2 4wt RobHoffhinesOrvis Flea AnonymousHardy C. C. deFrance or Tarantino DavyKretchman 6' 6" #3 Reed CurryHeddon 9' 2 * F 3 pc # 7/8 DonBurnsFarlow made Norm Thompson 6' 2 *" 2 pc # 4/5Don BurnsDawn Holbrook 8.5' tapers for a #7 or #8lines Rob NielsenThramer 6' 472Dx ChrisMcDowellA.J. Thamer's 8' Dx John ChannerWinston Little FellerWinston 8' #7 Dell CoppockDickerson 8013 John ChannerHardy Perfection CarstenJorgensenMerritt Hawes 9ft 3pc 6wghtMike Clark 8ft 2pc 6wghtJohn Zimny Model 98 7 ft quad Bill FinkReed CurryP&M Ritz Parabolic PPP Colorado 7'7" #5Morten Lovstad from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Dec 28 15:12:47 1998 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: Re: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time R.Summers, the rodmaker served his apprenticeship with PHY and hasmentionedthat Young produced at least 6 different versions of the Para 15.Schwiebert wrote of the two 15's in his collection having differentactions.Terry Ackland Lamberson, William R. wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Lamberson, William R. Sent: Monday, December 28, 1998 8:36 AM 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: The twenty five or thirty best tapers ofall time Thus far, 34 tapers are on the list of nominees for the 25or 30 best of alltime. The Young Para 15 and the Young Midge received themost nominations.A half-dozen are from contemporary makers. Are their othernominees? The three tapers chosen for my first rods were among thefirst fewnominated. A pair of Young Midges is in the string and atrio of Driggs islaid out ready to glue. I think a Dickerson 8013 is next onthe list forme. Bill Young Driggs Tony Young Dell CoppockYoung Para 15 Tony Young TomSmithwickYoung Midge Tony Young DavyYoung Perfectionist Carsten JorgensenSir D Tony Young Steve TrauthweinGarrison l93 AlexGarrison 212E Tom Smithwick John ZimnyGarrison 221Garrison 201E Rob HoffhinesLeonard 50 Rob HoffhinesLeonard 38H 7' #4 AnonymousLeonard model 50 1/2, a 8 1/2ft 3pc 5wghtPayne 98 Rob HoffhinesPayne 200 Rob HoffhinesGranger Special Steve ( from TomMaxwell)Cross Bataviakill DavyCross Sylph Dell CoppockF. E. Thomas Browntone Light Trout DavyFE Thomas 71/2 4wt RobHoffhinesOrvis Flea AnonymousHardy C. C. deFrance or Tarantino DavyKretchman 6' 6" #3 Reed CurryHeddon 9' 2 * F 3 pc # 7/8 DonBurnsFarlow made Norm Thompson 6' 2 *" 2 pc # 4/5Don BurnsDawn Holbrook 8.5' tapers for a #7 or #8lines Rob NielsenThramer 6' 472Dx ChrisMcDowellA.J. Thamer's 8' Dx John ChannerWinston Little FellerWinston 8' #7 Dell CoppockDickerson 8013 John ChannerHardy Perfection CarstenJorgensenMerritt Hawes 9ft 3pc 6wghtMike Clark 8ft 2pc 6wghtJohn Zimny Model 98 7 ft quad Bill FinkReed CurryP&M Ritz Parabolic PPP Colorado 7'7" #5Morten Lovstad from ragnarig@integrityol.com Mon Dec 28 16:14:13 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A4FE11F10110; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:23:58 PDT Subject: Re: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time Dear Morten Any chance you've taken the taper off any of these rods- especially the 7- 7?I for one would be interested to see and maybe try it. Davy Bill,I feel a member of the Ritz Parabolic rods from Pezon & Michel belongsin the 25 to 30 best taper group. I have made:P&M Ritz Parabolic PPP Colorado 7'7" #5, I love it.I used to own:original P&M Ritz Super Parabolic PPP Master Type Lambiotte 8'3" #5: Agreat rod.Another famous rod:P&M Super Parabolic PPP Fario Club Type Ritz 8'3" # 6.All these rods have very similar action (taper). Just a vote from a Parholic.Morten Lovstad--3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten/index.htm from dpeaston@wzrd.com Mon Dec 28 16:21:02 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.9.1/8.7.3)with SMTP id RAA08738 for ; Mon, 28 Dec Subject: Thanks! Thanks to all who gave me Mike Sinclair's address. There seems to be somediscrepency about his Snail Mail address. I will post the approprate onewhen I find out. Thanks again. -Doug Easton from RMargiotta@aol.com Mon Dec 28 16:35:29 1998 Subject: Fwd: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time/Uslans boundary="part0_914884267_boundary" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_914884267_boundary --part0_914884267_boundary Subject: Re: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time/Uslans I have two (and possibly a third) Uslans that are really nice. The first oneis an 8'0" 2 piece for a 4 wt. That's right, a 4 weight, which makes itunusual for all of the Uslans I've seen on lists. The whole thing onlyweighs3 1/2 oz and it's only markings are "Uslan" and "C-1" in two differentlocations. The second rod is 8'6" and is marked "8515" (model number) but seems tobe aspecially made made for Jim Deren's old Angler's Roost and is marked soalongwith "Dry Fly Salmon". It is also a 2 piecer and is a real thunderstick for aWF8 (unbelievable distance especially for a mediocre caster like myself).Both of these rods seem to exhibit that parabolic "kick" once a bit of lineisworked out, but I've never cast a PHY taper for comparison. The third rod is a mystery (as Bill Fink knows) and is an unmarked 7'0" 1piece. It casts a DT6 OK but I'm beginning to wonder from its taper if it'snot a reformulated spinning rod. If anyone wants them, I can take and post the tapers. --Rich --part0_914884267_boundary-- from amcsmith@nlis.net Mon Dec 28 17:36:27 1998 Subject: jasper thread dennis,thank you for your reply i was begining to think the rodwould be redone in java beige my only color right nowi would be happy to mic rod 5 inch stations starting at tip? is that how its done, tip is approx 2" short shouldi includ ferule size [just want it to be useful for youguy'schris smithpo box 33porter me 04068 p.s. i would be happy to reimburse you just let me knowhow or where from amcsmith@nlis.net Mon Dec 28 17:39:12 1998 Subject: best,worst,christmas list,BEST DENNIS'S OFFER TO SEND ME JASPER THREADworst hand held video fishing game radio shack orbass fishing cdrom game for computerchris smith from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Dec 28 17:58:21 1998 (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26296 for ;Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:58:42 Subject: Re:--Best Tapers To Reed and OthersThe reason I accept Uslan as my icon is because he pioneered 5-sidegeometry or as somebody said - only 1 strip missing. I like to try newthings and the pentas I've made have been nice performers and a little bitdifferent. Quads are nice also but pentas are where I mostly stand.(PentiumII?)Reed raised a question: has anyone ever cast a Uslan that was well madeand pleasing in the hand. I can't answer in the affirmative. My only Uslancame to me with a beat up butt and a mismatched short useless tip. Thebuttsection stress curve was impossible to work with but I eventuallyjury-rigged a couple of new tips and do fish with it when I'm feeling good.So I'd like to join with Reed and ask about your views on Uslan rods.One more point: regardless of the consensus on Uslan, I think the guyswhohave cast my 7 foot 3 inch 4-wt and some of my others will agree thatpentaswork. Bill Fink from paullyon@epix.net Mon Dec 28 18:09:46 1998 ESMTP id TAA28511 Subject: Multi-Colored Thread Needed mac-creator="4D4F5353" One and all: Anyone out there know where I can get multi-colored silk or nylon thread yellow, followed by 6 inches of dark blue, 6 of orange, 6 of green and 6of red. It's my dad's signature on old production rods he refinishes andhe's run out and can't find more. We'd both be much appreciative ifanyone could help. Oh, and thanks to all who responded for my previous query regardingkindred spirits in NEPA. Paul Lyonpaullyon@epix.net from jaquin@netsync.net Mon Dec 28 20:45:33 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA00486; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 21:16:37 -0500 Subject: Re: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time David wrote: Dear Morten Any chance you've taken the taper off any of these rods- especially the7-7?I for one would be interested to see and maybe try it. Davy Bill,I feel a member of the Ritz Parabolic rods from Pezon & Michelbelongsin the 25 to 30 best taper group. I have made:P&M Ritz Parabolic PPP Colorado 7'7" #5, I love it.I used to own:original P&M Ritz Super Parabolic PPP Master Type Lambiotte 8'3" #5: Agreat rod.Another famous rod:P&M Super Parabolic PPP Fario Club Type Ritz 8'3" # 6.All these rods have very similar action (taper). Just a vote from a Parholic.Morten Lovstad--3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten/index.htm hi morten, i'm sure several of us on the list would be interested inthe taper. please post to list. tia jerry from lblan@provide.net Mon Dec 28 20:46:57 1998 Subject: RE: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey Whew... escaped with only a T-shirt emblazoned with a tackle box full oflures - the caption "So little time, so many lures".??? from morten@flash.net Mon Dec 28 21:27:40 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Ritz Parabolic List,Several list members have requested the Pezon & Michel Ritz SuperParabolic PPP Colorado, (with that long a name it must be good).I have listed it earlier, but here it is again. Pezon & Michel, Ritz Super Parbolic PPP Colorado, 7'7" #5. Original measurements were metric at 15cm increments. I haveinterpolated to 5" stations and converted the measurements.Tip length 1330mm (ca.52 1/2")Butt length 1020 mm.079 .094 .110 .130 .146 .161 .173 .185 .201 .220 .228 .232 .240 .252.256 .264 .268 .272 .272 I built it from these specs, and it casts a WF 4 or 5.The taper is also in Frank Stetzer's taper archive with a stresscurvegraph: http://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/hexrod.html Best RegardsMorten-- 3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten/index.htm from rcurry@top.monad.net Mon Dec 28 21:43:55 1998 Subject: Re: --Best Tapers Bill,The reason I dubbed you "Pentium II" is because you are the second, andnowthe lone (practically), voice for the maligned five-sided. I've cast one ofyour5's and it is delightful; not at all the stiff, unresponsive action of theUslan's I've encountered. [Rich says he has some good Uslan's; I expect hewillenlighten me further at Grayrock.]Remember MacLane's spirited, scientific defense of the penta in "ThePractical Fly Fisherman"? Why is it that no one has undertaken penta taperdevelopment, that is besides you, Bill? I think it was because of Uslan.We need you to educate us further on the five-sided world, Bill.Best regards,Reed Bill Fink wrote: To Reed and OthersThe reason I accept Uslan as my icon is because he pioneered 5-sidegeometry or as somebody said - only 1 strip missing. I like to try newthings and the pentas I've made have been nice performers and a littlebitdifferent. Quads are nice also but pentas are where I mostly stand.(PentiumII?)Reed raised a question: has anyone ever cast a Uslan that was wellmadeand pleasing in the hand. I can't answer in the affirmative. My only Uslancame to me with a beat up butt and a mismatched short useless tip. Thebuttsection stress curve was impossible to work with but I eventuallyjury-rigged a couple of new tips and do fish with it when I'm feelinggood.So I'd like to join with Reed and ask about your views on Uslan rods.One more point: regardless of the consensus on Uslan, I think the guyswhohave cast my 7 foot 3 inch 4-wt and some of my others will agree thatpentaswork. Bill Fink from Collins@uniserve.com Tue Dec 29 00:45:28 1998 Subject: Steelhead taper Does anyone have a taper for about an 8 weight rod that would be good forsteelhead fishing? I'm going to be moving to an area well known forsteelhead and I would like to build a decent cane rod for river fishingSteelhead. I have been watching with interest the Best 25,...30,...34,... tapers butwithout intimate knowledge of the rods, the weights of most are notobvious. Also, I read somewhere that an 8 weight rod may be on the upper end orevenbeyond what is possible to make a great cane rod. Do any of the RodMakershave any experiance or comments on this? Is weight the issue? Should therod be made hollow? Any comments either posted or direct to me are most welcome. Doug Collins from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Dec 29 01:41:18 1998 mail.geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id QAA07878; Tue, 29 Dec1998 16:41:08 +0900 (JST) "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: Re: The twenty five or thirty best tapers of all time Hi, I want vote too. My most favourit are Jim Payne 200, and Chris Bogart's ShenandoahSupreme #4 tips. I took it in mind of JP 200 stress curve for other rods too. Action is"Butterly Smooth".Chris's SS has a great power to extend the line to a distance. Thanks, Max Lamberson, William R. wrote: Thus far, 34 tapers are on the list of nominees for the 25 or 30 best ofalltime. The Young Para 15 and the Young Midge received the mostnominations.A half-dozen are from contemporary makers. Are their other nominees? The three tapers chosen for my first rods were among the first fewnominated. A pair of Young Midges is in the string and a trio of Driggs islaid out ready to glue. I think a Dickerson 8013 is next on the list forme. Bill Young Driggs Tony Young Dell CoppockYoung Para 15 Tony Young Tom SmithwickYoung Midge Tony Young DavyYoung Perfectionist Carsten JorgensenSir D Tony Young Steve TrauthweinGarrison l93 AlexGarrison 212E Tom Smithwick John ZimnyGarrison 221Garrison 201E Rob HoffhinesLeonard 50 Rob HoffhinesLeonard 38H 7' #4 AnonymousLeonard model 50 1/2, a 8 1/2ft 3pc 5wghtPayne 98 Rob HoffhinesPayne 200 Rob HoffhinesGranger Special Steve ( from Tom Maxwell)Cross Bataviakill DavyCross Sylph Dell CoppockF. E. Thomas Browntone Light Trout DavyFE Thomas 71/2 4wt Rob HoffhinesOrvis Flea AnonymousHardy C. C. deFrance or Tarantino DavyKretchman 6' 6" #3 ReedHeddon 9' 2 (I>(B F 3 pc # 7/8 Don BurnsFarlow made Norm Thompson 6' 2 (I Dawn Holbrook 8.5' tapers for a #7 or #8 lines Rob NielsenThramer 6' 472Dx Chris McDowellA.J. Thamer's 8' Dx John ChannerWinston Little FellerWinston 8' #7 Dell CoppockDickerson 8013 John ChannerHardy Perfection Carsten JorgensenMerritt Hawes 9ft 3pc 6wghtMike Clark 8ft 2pc 6wghtJohn Zimny Model 98 7 ft quad Bill (fiveside) Reed -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from RMargiotta@aol.com Tue Dec 29 06:15:03 1998 Subject: Taper for 8'0" Uslan To All: Here's the taper for the 8'0" Uslan, 2 piece, DT4, 3 1/2 oz. The onlymarkings are "Uslan" and "C-1" in two black ink at two locations on thebutt.6 1/2" slimmed down full wells grip, aluminum pocket and ring reel seatw/corkspacer, 9 guides, tan wraps, burgundy at ferrules (which are step-down,serrated, and welted on the female). The upper 2/3's of the tip isrelativelystrong, but the taper goes much flatter after that. I measured all five ofthe flat-to-apex dimensions and averaged them; there was very littlevariationat most of the stations. The rod appears to be impregnated so I didn'tknowif anything should be deducted (measurements are the actual readings). Thisis definitely NOT a stiff rod, the action works all the way into a grip. Itmay have been some kind of an experimental or custom rod and is probablyanearlier model since a lot of the Uslans you see on the lists have Super Zs. 1 0.0905 0.10410 0.12215 0.14120 0.15925 0.17230 0.18835 0.19740 0.20145 0.20650 0.21155 0.22660 0.24465 0.26470 0.27375 0.27980 0.28085 0.280 --Rich from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Dec 29 10:18:43 1998 Subject: Re: Steelhead taper Doug,Try Chris Bogart's "Big Dog Stick" on Jerry's taper archive. This is a 9'6"8wt powerhouse. Chris hollow-builds the butt and mid. I have one andreallyenjoy its kick.8wt should not be the upper end for cane; you can easily find old 10-11wtrods. As for physical weight, that is carbon marketing hype. Once a heavylineis in the air, the weight of the rod is the least of your concerns. And if youchoose a slow action rod, or even a medium-slow action, the amount offalsecasting can be reduced by 90%. Of course, for years the graphite rods weretoostiff and required a lot of false casting before they could load for a shoot;sothe dealers had to market the light weight.At the turn of the century, a 10' 6oz rod was considered suitable for alady. I use a 10' 6wt for a full days fishing and end the day refreshed; ofcourse, this rod will load with just the leader and you can go from 20' to50'with just one backcast, so I'm not doing all that fruitless false casting.Best regards,Reed[Gosh, that was almost a tirade. I'd better cut back on the caffine.]. Doug Collins wrote: Does anyone have a taper for about an 8 weight rod that would be goodforsteelhead fishing? I'm going to be moving to an area well known forsteelhead and I would like to build a decent cane rod for river fishingSteelhead. I have been watching with interest the Best 25,...30,...34,... tapers butwithout intimate knowledge of the rods, the weights of most are notobvious. Also, I read somewhere that an 8 weight rod may be on the upper end orevenbeyond what is possible to make a great cane rod. Do any of theRodMakershave any experiance or comments on this? Is weight the issue? Shouldtherod be made hollow? Any comments either posted or direct to me are most welcome. Doug Collins from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Dec 29 10:23:27 1998 mail.geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id BAA14029 for; Wed, 30Dec 1998 01:23:18 +0900 (JST) Subject: Spline / spine Dear list, Please advise how I should decide the flat on which guides are located. There are two thoughts. 1. One is to find the strongest elasticity flat and put guides on theopposit side.2. Two is to find the weakest elasticity flat and put guides on thesurface. I am taking positon of 1. above. It can pick up lines with thestrongest tention of the rod. So does it when a big fish is hooked. But there is some funky guy in my friends who takes position of 2 andplace my rod tip on the back of a chair and put the butt on the floor. And he criticized that the guides are not facing upward on the leaningrod on the chair. (as weakest flat always face up when a rod is leanedon with angle.) The 1. and 2 above not always lies on opposite sides to each other. Thestrongest and weakest flats sometimes lies just in neighbour, side byside. In such case, the flat which has guides does not face up. Which is the best way? Or any other way of determining the guidesurface? Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Tue Dec 29 10:31:00 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey from my nephew: "Flyfishing For Dummys" He said it was his "joke" gift................................ from his mother last Christmas: A fishing frog like John Channer got this year. Olaf BorgeSystems Programmer/System SoftwareUniversity of Illinois/AISS/CNO312/996-5212 -----Original Message-----From: cbogart [SMTP:cbogart@shentel.net]Sent: Friday, December 25, 1998 1:56 PM Subject: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey To All We started this a couple of years ago to see what kind of thingswell meaning people find for their "angling" friend or loved ones.Eachyear we come up with a very interesting items. Getting the new Lie Nielsen 9 and 1/2 block plane disqualifiesyoubut getting a ceramic fishing basket that holds candy qualifies youthanksthis year to my sister-in-law. Good try but the candy was better thanthebasket - but we got to put these things out else somebody isdisappointed. Regards Chris from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Dec 29 11:12:23 1998 Subject: Pentas In a message dated 12/28/98 7:48:27 PM Pacific Standard Time,rcurry@top.monad.net writes: The reason I dubbed you "Pentium II" is because you are the second, and now the lone (practically), voice for the maligned five-sided. Interesting discussion topic.Garrison looked at - and rejected - 5 sided geometry becausehe thought the increase of stress at the apex opposite the guide flat would break down the fibers of the bamboo quickly. Theoretically this is true. In practice I'm not too sure about that.That apex is going to be mostly glue, depending on how farthe glue penetrates into the bamboo. I believe our modernglues can stand up to the stress. Also, if the apex is perfectly sharp, as you approach the infinitesimally small point of theapex the stress goes astronomically high. But a rod can't be made with an apex that sharp. As the apex gets more roundedthe stress is spread out over a larger area, and I think a normallooking apex (not rounding it out with sandpaper or a scraper) is spreading out the stress enough not to put any undue stress on the fibers in the apex. I have been hitting the library for engineering books on thestress characteristics of a five sided column, as opposed toanything else (round, six sides, square), and to tell you the truth round gets the most discussion no matter where I look.But, since I don't want to make a round cane rod, and I thinkI understand six sided, I'm ready to take the plunge into 5sided and 4 sided rods. I'm looking for the formula for stress on a five sided beam.What I have come up with so far mimics the six sided stressformula, only with a slightly smaller cross sectional area.I don't think that is right. A 5 sided rod has that "backbone"(the apex directly opposite the guide flat) that increasesstiffness, and with a smaller cross section (compensation forincreased stiffness) a 5 sided rod should be lighter with everything else being equal. The backbone will increase the stress experienced by thebamboo ( higher stress is usually looked at as bendingmore - with the same cross sectional area), but will actuallybe stiffer. So I don't think a 6 sided stress curve can be directlycompared to a 5 sided stress curve. I think I will need to makea few pentas, plot the stress curves, and cast them. Checkback with me in a year. First project, a five sided Sir D.... Darryl from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Tue Dec 29 11:38:13 1998 1998 17:36:56 UT 1998)) id862566E9.0060ABAE ; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:35:54 -0600 Subject: Re: Pentas Darryl, The generic equation for stress is simply stress = moment / section modulus The section modulus is a function of the cross sectional shape. I can getyou the equation for a pentagon if you like (I'm at work and have it athome). The stress at the apex of a penta with a given section modulusshould be indentical (in theory) to the stress on the surface of the outerflat of a hex with the same section modulus. Note that beam equations don't care what the section modulus of the beamisin order to calculate stress or strain. It's just a number you plug in.Units are inches cubed. Note that when you divide the moment, whose unitsare inch - ounces, by the section modulus, whose units are inches to thethird power, you get ounces per square inch. I started writing a paper on all of this about three years ago, got allcaught up in life and other pursuits and dropped it. May be time to startit up again. The definitive book on the subject is Roark & Young's Formulas usually the first reference book any young mechanical/structural engineerbuys. Best regards,-Ed Estlow from sjstill@iquest.net Tue Dec 29 12:13:46 1998 0000 (209.43.54.33) Subject: re:Pentas FWIW, I got an Uslan (kit) rod a while back and really like it. It is an 81/2 2/2 for 6/7, and does great with a WF6. Just the ticket forsmallmouthbass. I need to re do some of the rod as it is not to my liking, but, otherthan the cosmetic flaws, it is a dandy rod. Steve from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Dec 29 12:20:48 1998 (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:20:15 -0500 Subject: RI boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE332E.62B517A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE332E.62B517A0 Was wondering if anyone out here is play land lives or fishes in RI. I =am flying out the 7th-10th for a job interview and have a bunch of of =free time. A lady friend in the area wants to learn how to flyfish and =I told her I would find out the deal...(this is where you all come in if =you didn't figure it out already :) Best wishes and thanks in advance. = Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE332E.62B517A0 Was wondering if anyone out hereis = how to flyfish and I told her I would find out the deal...(this is where = Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod = Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) =277- 4510www.munrorodco.com ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE332E.62B517A0-- from CPETERS@rivertrade.com Tue Dec 29 12:27:34 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 12:25:18 -0600 Subject: Hexrod I have been unable to access Frank Stetzer's online hexrod site for thepast 2 weeks.(WIthdrawal is setting in!!!) Is it just me or are others experiencing thesame problem? from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Dec 29 12:41:27 1998 (5.5.2407.0) Subject: tools http://www.goldenwitch.com/ Went out goldenwitch and bought some silk and a couple of rod tubes. Verynice stuff and amsurprised that he isn't listed on the rodmakers page under suppliers. Rodtubes are heavy walledaluminum tubes with heavy knurled brass end cap and screw on end cap.Silk is very beautiful.They are coming out with a new bronze rod wrapper and dial indicator baseand calibrator.Thought I would pick up something's before they move to Penn on the 5thof January, you eastcoast guys and Midwest guys will like booth the owners and their stuff. Ihave no finicalaffiliation with them what so ever, just thought I would pass on what Ifound and bought. He hassome great rodmaking stuff....bevelers, binders...etc. from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Dec 29 13:05:32 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id NAA07963 for; Tue, (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP idNAA01494 for ; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 Subject: Re: Pentas Garrison has a formula, given without explanation, for the diameterof a (hex) rod at a point to give the desired stress: D = cube_root(M/(0.120*f)) where M is the moment (Line+Tip+Bamboo+etc) in oz/inf is the desired stress (in oz/sq_in) I tried to derive this formula recently myself, assuming that the 0.120 must come from section modulus of a Hex. But I could neverget the 0.120. I came close, with 0.116 (I think), but just farenough off that I wasn't convinced I was doing it right. Couldsomeone put me back on track? ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Tue, 29 Dec 1998 Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us wrote: Darryl, The generic equation for stress is simply stress = moment / section modulus The section modulus is a function of the cross sectional shape. I can getyou the equation for a pentagon if you like (I'm at work and have it athome). The stress at the apex of a penta with a given section modulusshould be indentical (in theory) to the stress on the surface of the outerflat of a hex with the same section modulus. Note that beam equations don't care what the section modulus of thebeam isin order to calculate stress or strain. It's just a number you plug in.Units are inches cubed. Note that when you divide the moment, whoseunitsare inch - ounces, by the section modulus, whose units are inches to thethird power, you get ounces per square inch. I started writing a paper on all of this about three years ago, got allcaught up in life and other pursuits and dropped it. May be time to startit up again. The definitive book on the subject is Roark & Young'sFormulas usually the first reference book any young mechanical/structuralengineerbuys. Best regards,-Ed Estlow from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Dec 29 13:17:59 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id NAA14320 for; Tue, (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP idNAA11820 for ; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 Subject: Re: Hexrod A couple weeks ago our Web server was crashing periodically, but the guys in the basement that live on Moutain Dew, donuts and tequila seem to have it under control again. I haven't heard of any otherproblems. Just for the record the URL is http://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/hexrod.html ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, CURT PETERSEN wrote: I have been unable to access Frank Stetzer's online hexrod site for thepast 2 weeks.(WIthdrawal is setting in!!!) Is it just me or are others experiencing thesame problem? from Mason35504@aol.com Tue Dec 29 15:09:48 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey How about white socks with Rainbows printed on them (vertically up yourleg,so that when you have your shoes on the trout's head is inside the shoewiththe tail sticking out)? I got two (count 'em) pairs of this fine piece ofequipment, one from my wife (she should know better) and one from myson!They didn't even collaborate on these presents, they just thought the soxwould be nice (that's scary). Les Mason from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Tue Dec 29 15:51:27 1998 with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP5l.R) for ; Tue, 29 Dec1998 16:52:17 -0500 Subject: Where is Everyone Hey where is everyone. You guys get me hooked and then quit talking. AndIwanted to brag about my first bamboo flyrod....darn. Hahahahaha Seriously is the traffic light, or am I having problems? Joe from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Tue Dec 29 16:02:53 1998 1998 22:01:42 UT 1998)) id862566E9.0078E74C ; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:00:35 -0600 Subject: Re: Where is Everyone You're coming through just fine. Brag away!-Ed jcbyrd@direct-pest.com on 12/29/98 03:58:34 PM Subject: Where is Everyone Hey where is everyone. You guys get me hooked and then quit talking. AndIwanted to brag about my first bamboo flyrod....darn. Hahahahaha Seriously is the traffic light, or am I having problems? Joe from jfreeman@cyberport.com Tue Dec 29 16:09:25 1998 Subject: Dip Tank Motor I guess I had better jump in here and introduce myself. I've beensubscribed for about two months now and am starting to feel like apeepingtom for not contributing. I lucked out and located John Channer throughthis list. John lives about 40 miles away and has been putting up with allmy new guy questions. He was kind enough to donate a culm to get mestarted. Thanks again, John. John's got me up to the point that I'mstarting to build a dip tank. I talked with the people at Herbach and Rademan about a low RPM motor. Iasked about the 12vdc unit that's listed on the home page and wanted a110vto 12v convertor to avoid using a battery. They did not have one strongenough for the kit amps-wise. What are some of the motors that are beingused by listmembers and where are they available? Thanks for the help Jim Freeman from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Dec 29 16:26:16 1998 Subject: Re: Dip Tank Motor Jim,Remember vinyl records? The motor driving the turntable is perfect forthisapplication. You can find turntables at most yard sales, near the "Best oftheVillage People" albums, a little to the left of the lava lamps.Best regards,Reed "James R. Freeman" wrote: I guess I had better jump in here and introduce myself. I've beensubscribed for about two months now and am starting to feel like apeepingtom for not contributing. I lucked out and located John Channer throughthis list. John lives about 40 miles away and has been putting up with allmy new guy questions. He was kind enough to donate a culm to get mestarted. Thanks again, John. John's got me up to the point that I'mstarting to build a dip tank. I talked with the people at Herbach and Rademan about a low RPM motor.Iasked about the 12vdc unit that's listed on the home page and wanted a110vto 12v convertor to avoid using a battery. They did not have one strongenough for the kit amps-wise. What are some of the motors that arebeingused by listmembers and where are they available? Thanks for the help Jim Freeman from chris@artistree.com Tue Dec 29 16:41:20 1998 Subject: Re: Dip Tank Motor mac-creator="4D4F5353" Jim,Try Radio Shack for a 12 volt DC adapter to use with this motor. Iconnecteda cord to the motor that has a plug for you car cigarette lighter, this thenplugs into a radio shack 12 volt dc adapter which you plug into regularhomeoutlet. I think this adapter is used to power things like car cell phoneswhen you are in a hotel room or so on. I could probably dig out the Radio Shackpart numbers if you like. --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com "James R. Freeman" wrote: I guess I had better jump in here and introduce myself. I've beensubscribed for about two months now and am starting to feel like apeepingtom for not contributing. I lucked out and located John Channer throughthis list. John lives about 40 miles away and has been putting up with allmy new guy questions. He was kind enough to donate a culm to get mestarted. Thanks again, John. John's got me up to the point that I'mstarting to build a dip tank. I talked with the people at Herbach and Rademan about a low RPM motor.Iasked about the 12vdc unit that's listed on the home page and wanted a110vto 12v convertor to avoid using a battery. They did not have one strongenough for the kit amps-wise. What are some of the motors that arebeingused by listmembers and where are they available? Thanks for the help Jim Freeman --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail:chris@artistree.com from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Dec 29 17:11:38 1998 "OBorge@aiss.uic.edu" ,"rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: The Annual Christmas Gift Survey Les Now all you need is the trouser trout to go with them (don't ask)! Chris On Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:08:21 EST, Mason35504@aol.com wrote: How about white socks with Rainbows printed on them (vertically up yourleg,so that when you have your shoes on the trout's head is inside the shoewiththe tail sticking out)? I got two (count 'em) pairs of this fine piece ofequipment, one from my wife (she should know better) and one from myson!They didn't even collaborate on these presents, they just thought the soxwould be nice (that's scary). Les Mason Regards Chris from robert.kope@MCI2000.com Tue Dec 29 18:03:18 1998 with SMTP id forRODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu;Wed, 30 Dec 1998 00:02:46 +0000 (GMT) Subject: dipping hookkeepers boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BE3344.DB318180" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BE3344.DB318180 I'm getting ready to finish rods #2 and 3 and intend to use hanging ring =hookkeepers. However, I'm at a loss to figure out how to finish the =wraps on them. If I wrap first and dip the rod, the hookkeeper will =want to hang down against the rod and get varnished to the rod. Even if =I dip the rod first, the ring will want to flop down onto the wraps as I =rotate the rod to varnish the wraps. I know some listmembers don't =believe in hookkeepers at all, but surely there must be many listmembers=who have encountered this problem and come up with satisfactory =solutions. What's the secret? Thanks in advance, Robert Kope ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BE3344.DB318180 I'm getting ready to finish rods#2 = hookkeeper will want to hang down against the rod and get varnished to = don't believe in hookkeepers at all, but surely there must be many = who have encountered this problem and come up with satisfactory = What's the secret? Thanks in advance, Robert =Kope ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BE3344.DB318180-- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Dec 29 18:09:45 1998 via smap (4.1) 16:24:54 PST Subject: RE: Planing Forms Andrew, I have a set of the Colorado Bootstrap forms. They have Push/Pull screws on 5" centers with extra stations for making swelled butts. You may find the need to flatten them before use. They are much less expensive than some of the other forms available. The forms are quick and smooth to adjust with the dial indicator. You might also ask how fine a strip you can plane with the Wagner forms and consider that in your purchase. The Bootstrap forms I have are limited somewhat in this area. The very delicate tapers like a Leonard 37 1/2 are too fine as I recently discovered. Out of the box I can plane down to about a .030 strip at the very tip of the forms. I suppose if you flatten the surface you effectively shallow the groove, so that may be a remedy in the long run. If you have the extra to spend then it is my understanding that the J.D. Wagner forms come ready to use with no flattening or finishing necessary and are very nicely done. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from anglport@con2.com Tue Dec 29 18:14:20 1998 Subject: Re: Dip Tank Motor Jim,If you or your kids ever had a set of H-O trains, you have a 13 vtransformer sitting around there somewhere. Don't use the transformerforthe larger (S, O, O27) sizes as they're AC. Just set the slide near the topend and run away with yourself. I don't know the ratings of N or TT either,but the H-O 'll do 'er! Use it all the time when I'm fixing a car radio orthe like. If "near the top" is good enough for a radio it sure ain't gonnahurt no motor.Art At 03:04 PM 12/29/98 -0700, James R. Freeman wrote:I guess I had better jump in here and introduce myself. I've beensubscribed for about two months now and am starting to feel like apeepingtom for not contributing. I lucked out and located John Channer throughthis list. John lives about 40 miles away and has been putting up with allmy new guy questions. He was kind enough to donate a culm to get mestarted. Thanks again, John. John's got me up to the point that I'mstarting to build a dip tank. I talked with the people at Herbach and Rademan about a low RPM motor. Iasked about the 12vdc unit that's listed on the home page and wanted a110vto 12v convertor to avoid using a battery. They did not have one strongenough for the kit amps-wise. What are some of the motors that are beingused by listmembers and where are they available? Thanks for the help Jim Freeman from chris@artistree.com Tue Dec 29 18:17:44 1998 Subject: Re: dipping hookkeepers mac-creator="4D4F5353" Try a long pin (headed kind) threaded through the hook keeper ring andstuck into the cork grip. This will keep the ring folded up and out ofthe way. --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail:chris@artistree.com "robert.kope" wrote: I'm getting ready to finish rods #2 and 3 and intend to use hangingring hookkeepers. However, I'm at a loss to figure out how to finishthe wraps on them. If I wrap first and dip the rod, the hookkeeperwill want to hang down against the rod and get varnished to the rod.Even if I dip the rod first, the ring will want to flop down onto thewraps as I rotate the rod to varnish the wraps. I know somelistmembers don't believe in hookkeepers at all, but surely there mustbe many listmembers who have encountered this problem and come upwithsatisfactory solutions. What's the secret? Thanks in advance, RobertKope from chris@artistree.com Tue Dec 29 18:24:25 1998 Subject: Re: Planing Forms mac-creator="4D4F5353" Yep, I agree with everything Chris has said. You must dress these formsand the form just a bit more. With just a little elbow grease you can have avery functional set of forms at a great price. --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail:chris@artistree.com mcdowellc@lanecc.edu wrote: Andrew, I have a set of the Colorado Bootstrap forms. They have Push/Pullscrewson 5" centers with extra stations for making swelled butts. You mayfindthe need to flatten them before use. They are much less expensive thansome of the other forms available. The forms are quick and smooth toadjust with the dial indicator. You might also ask how fine a strip youcan plane with the Wagner forms and consider that in your purchase. TheBootstrap forms I have are limited somewhat in this area. The verydelicate tapers like a Leonard 37 1/2 are too fine as I recentlydiscovered. Out of the box I can plane down to about a .030 strip at thevery tip of the forms. I suppose if you flatten the surface youeffectively shallow the groove, so that may be a remedy in the long run.If you have the extra to spend then it is my understanding that the J.D.Wagner forms come ready to use with no flattening or finishingnecessaryand are very nicely done. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Dec 29 19:29:32 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Re: Dip Tank Motor Reed,Hey wait a minute here buddy I still have a turntable and vinyl records. Myson bought me some real small looking things he calls CDs. Don't workworth acrap on my turntable any help on what I am doing wrong. LOLBret from cattanac@wmis.net Tue Dec 29 19:45:35 1998 t2.wmis.net (8.8.5/SCO5) withSMTP id BAA05284; Wed, 30 Dec 1998 01:49:27 GMT "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Dip Tank Motor Art has offered up an excellent idea - I would check the draw of themotor vs output of transformer - If ok you will then have a variable speeddrive - using the speed control - you might work out the needed math sothathigh speed would be around 8"/min or soHey Reed - when you see those Lava lamps think of the clubhouse - onewould go well with the swinging leg Elvis Clock - that's the one where heiswearing a purple jacket - it doesn't keep time well either from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Dec 29 19:51:10 1998 mail.geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id KAA06212; Wed, 30 Dec1998 10:51:00 +0900 (JST) "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Spline / spine Paul, and all Paul thank you for response. What I questioned seems a little different. Yes, I understand the wayyou take.The method you mentioned is to find the weakest flat in my wording andput guides on the opposite flat.(this is the weakest flat in my definition.) It is the opposite of theweakest flat and does not mean the strongest flat (IMHO). I am bending each section by pressing with my parm and finding thestrongest kick back from the blank, then I make the strongest flatupward of my rod (spline). I put guides on the opposite flat of thisspline.(this is the strongest flat in my definition.) It also does notmean the guide surface is the weakest, but weaker for sure.It assures that the upper surface of the rod while casting toward back,is strongest. But if there is a weakest flat next or next to next tothe strongest flat, the rod will not show the guide surface up when itis leaned down. Is my method incorrect? What is the true theory? Appreciate your advices. Max Paul Lyon wrote: Max: I was always taught to spine a rod thus: Stand the section of the rod you want to spine up perpendiculr to thefloorwith the tip end down. With your index finger on the butt end of thesection, press down toward the floor. Whichever way it bends revealsthespine. I was always taught to put the guides on the inside of the curve -the strong side, as you call it. But if you want a stiffer, strongeraction, put the guides on the outside of the curve. That's what I wastaught. Of course, I could be full of it. I prefer putting the guides on the inside of the curve because, I reason,that's the way the rod wants to bend and you should use that structuraltendency in service of the forward cast. There again, I could be full ofit. But that's my theory. Hope I helped. Paul Lyonpaullyon@epix.net Max Satoh wrote: Dear list, Please advise how I should decide the flat on which guides are located. There are two thoughts. 1. One is to find the strongest elasticity flat and put guides on theopposit side.2. Two is to find the weakest elasticity flat and put guides on thesurface. I am taking positon of 1. above. It can pick up lines with thestrongest tention of the rod. So does it when a big fish is hooked.But there is some funky guy in my friends who takes position of 2 andplace my rod tip on the back of a chair and put the butt on the floor.And he criticized that the guides are not facing upward on the leaningrod on the chair. (as weakest flat always face up when a rod is leanedon with angle.) The 1. and 2 above not always lies on opposite sides to each other. Thestrongest and weakest flats sometimes lies just in neighbour, side byside. In such case, the flat which has guides does not face up. Which is the best way? Or any other way of determining the guidesurface? Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from Flysguys@aol.com Tue Dec 29 20:39:52 1998 Subject: Tools Anyone know of a good source for used tools - planes? Guy from darrell01@netzero.net Tue Dec 29 20:49:36 1998 (206.249.86.218) Subject: Re: Dip Tank Motor boundary="=PMail:=_0000@@U1V6p4reZ4fLgjUlPZ0b" --=PMail:=_0000@@U1V6p4reZ4fLgjUlPZ0b Jim, You're very lucky to live near John, he cheerfully let me borrow somesilk thread and we have never spoken or met, just by email from this list.I live in los angeles... are there rod makers in LaLa Land? Thanks again John! Darrell Lee =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Subject: Dip Tank Motor I guess I had better jump in here and introduce myself. I've beensubscribed for about two months now and am starting to feel like apeepingtom for not contributing. I lucked out and located John Channer throughthis list. John lives about 40 miles away and has been putting up withallmy new guy questions. He was kind enough to donate a culm to get mestarted. Thanks again, John. John's got me up to the point that I'mstarting to build a dip tank. = I talked with the people at Herbach and Rademan about a low RPM motor.Iasked about the 12vdc unit that's listed on the home page and wanted a110vto 12v convertor to avoid using a battery. They did not have one strongenough for the kit amps-wise. What are some of the motors that are beingused by listmembers and where are they available? = Thanks for the help Jim Freeman --=PMail:=_0000@@U1V6p4reZ4fLgjUlPZ0b-- ___________________________________________Simplify your holiday shopping...Visit our partners for great holiday gifts.http://www.netzero.net/etoyshttp://www.netzero.net/amazon from darrell01@netzero.net Tue Dec 29 20:55:09 1998 (206.249.86.218) Subject: Re[2]: Dip Tank Motor boundary="=PMail:=_0001@@FKpvRC4GoVzvQPaFyAA8" --=PMail:=_0001@@FKpvRC4GoVzvQPaFyAA8 There's a surplus place in Pasadena CA that has motors pretty reasonable.about $10 bucks will get you setup. They have various speeds, I gota couple of 4 rpm motors for wrapping and a 68 rpm motor to applyvarnishon rods. They have a mail order catalog, if anyone wants the tele # askme via the list and I'll dig up the number. Make sure to have them testthem before shipping as I've seen a couple die young. Darrell=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Subject: Re: Dip Tank Motor Jim,Try Radio Shack for a 12 volt DC adapter to use with this motor. Iconnecte=da cord to the motor that has a plug for you car cigarette lighter, thisthenplugs into a radio shack 12 volt dc adapter which you plug into regularhomeoutlet. I think this adapter is used to power things like car cell phoneswhen you are in a hotel room or so on. I could probably dig out the Radio Shackpart numbers if you like. --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com "James R. Freeman" wrote: I guess I had better jump in here and introduce myself. I've beensubscribed for about two months now and am starting to feel like apeepin=gtom for not contributing. I lucked out and located John Channer throughthis list. John lives about 40 miles away and has been putting up withallmy new guy questions. He was kind enough to donate a culm to get mestarted. Thanks again, John. John's got me up to the point that I'mstarting to build a dip tank. I talked with the people at Herbach and Rademan about a low RPM motor.Iasked about the 12vdc unit that's listed on the home page and wanteda 110vto 12v convertor to avoid using a battery. They did not have one strongenough for the kit amps-wise. What are some of the motors that arebeingused by listmembers and where are they available? Thanks for the help Jim Freeman --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail:chris@artistree.com --=PMail:=_0001@@FKpvRC4GoVzvQPaFyAA8-- ___________________________________________Simplify your holiday shopping...Visit our partners for great holiday gifts.http://www.netzero.net/etoyshttp://www.netzero.net/amazon from SBDunn@aol.com Tue Dec 29 21:44:07 1998 Subject: Fwd: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine, boundary="part0_914989095_boundary" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_914989095_boundary I received some very informative replies to my recent question about theBamboo Flyrod Magazine, however I believe this one was meant for theentirelist... --part0_914989095_boundary air-yc02.mail.aol.com (v55.5) with SMTP; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:44:10-0500 with ESMTP id PAA00676 for ; mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP 232.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id MAA22726; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 12:44:07 -0800 ETAsAhRRxrQwsWayzfVx+VeCTnpe69OuSgIUasiw/DU30yB/PKPeX/n/KbEzCQY= Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine, I purchased , today, at a shop about 55 miles from here , issue #4. Isubjscribed in July and yet have to receive my first subscription issue.Does anyone have the answer(s)=----------=Alex --part0_914989095_boundary-- from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 29 22:06:03 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP Wed, 30 Dec 1998 04:05:30 +0000 Subject: Re: Oh God - I've gone and stepped in it One follow-up point:Duplicating the taper isn't the same as duplicating the rod (i.e., more thanjust the taper determines the "look and feel" of the rod, from the adhesiveused, to the tempering of the cane, to the number of guides and theirspacing, to even the type of ferrules used). If it is truly intellectualproperty, it will have either a patent number (or patent pending notice) onit or a copyright notice on it. If it has neither, either the producerdidn't think it was worth protecting or the government didn't agree that itwas unique enough to warrant protection. I seriously doubt that anyonewilllose a penny from publishing "dimensions" that are almost as easilyobtainable as the dimensions of a floor tile. George Bourke-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Oh God - I've gone and stepped in it At 04:55 PM 12/23/98 -0700, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote:Guys/Gals, About the 25>30 best tapers of all time -What if a contemporary builder felt his tapers were proprietary andwishednot to have his efforts broadcast world wide. Some might be impressed-some not.This may turn into a legal question of who really owns tapers - are theyintellectual property? If so they may accrue to the estate of the builderor to purchasers of rod building businesses. Then without the permissionofthe builder, I would wonder if we really should be publishing tapers ofanybody. Well? Don Sounds like reverse engineering. A commonly used technique in thecomputersoftware community. "Look and Feel" have been found to be intellectualproperty. Ironically, the disassembly of the IBM PC ROM BIOS, as done byCompaq, followed by reverse engineering a patentable BIOS, was, Ibelieve,ruled legal by the US Supreme Court. Publishing specifications, isprobablylegal, making copies for sale may be problematic. JMHO -Doug from ragnarig@integrityol.com Tue Dec 29 22:57:59 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A5167320118; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 21:07:34 PDT Subject: Re: Tools Dear Guy With the exception of good friends who buy old tools in bulk, then sell offthe non-collectable ones, the best places I've found are flea markets or"antique malls" in small towns. The really good tools are fairly sparse,but good functional ones are relatively cheap. Also, get hooked up with atool collector club in your area. As I said, a lot of these guys can helpyou out with good stuff that just isn't collectable. Good luck!Davy Anyone know of a good source for used tools - planes? Guy from ragnarig@integrityol.com Tue Dec 29 23:06:50 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A7228D0106; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 21:16:18 PDT Subject: Re: Spline / spine Dear Max To do the best job for your customer, it helps to know how he/she will beusing the rod. Putting the strongest side on the "belly" will help the rodpull sinking or sink-tip lines out for the backcast. It will also help setthe hook in hard-jawed fishes. Any rod I suspect of being for Steelheadwill get this treatment. I always try a rod with the guides taped onbefore wrapping them permanently. Sometimes I do this for a few weeks,trying different combinations (most of my rods have three sections) forthemost satisfying effect. Davy Paul, and all Paul thank you for response. What I questioned seems a little different. Yes, I understand the wayyou take.The method you mentioned is to find the weakest flat in my wording andput guides on the opposite flat.(this is the weakest flat in my definition.) It is the opposite of theweakest flat and does not mean the strongest flat (IMHO). I am bending each section by pressing with my parm and finding thestrongest kick back from the blank, then I make the strongest flatupward of my rod (spline). I put guides on the opposite flat of thisspline.(this is the strongest flat in my definition.) It also does notmean the guide surface is the weakest, but weaker for sure.It assures that the upper surface of the rod while casting toward back,is strongest. But if there is a weakest flat next or next to next tothe strongest flat, the rod will not show the guide surface up when itis leaned down. Is my method incorrect? What is the true theory? Appreciate your advices. Max Paul Lyon wrote: Max: I was always taught to spine a rod thus: Stand the section of the rod you want to spine up perpendiculr to thefloorwith the tip end down. With your index finger on the butt end of thesection, press down toward the floor. Whichever way it bends revealsthespine. I was always taught to put the guides on the inside of the curve -the strong side, as you call it. But if you want a stiffer, strongeraction, put the guides on the outside of the curve. That's what I wastaught. Of course, I could be full of it. I prefer putting the guides on the inside of the curve because, I reason,that's the way the rod wants to bend and you should use that structuraltendency in service of the forward cast. There again, I could be full ofit. But that's my theory. Hope I helped. Paul Lyonpaullyon@epix.net Max Satoh wrote: Dear list, Please advise how I should decide the flat on which guides arelocated. There are two thoughts. 1. One is to find the strongest elasticity flat and put guides on theopposit side.2. Two is to find the weakest elasticity flat and put guides on thesurface. I am taking positon of 1. above. It can pick up lines with thestrongest tention of the rod. So does it when a big fish is hooked.But there is some funky guy in my friends who takes position of 2 andplace my rod tip on the back of a chair and put the butt on the floor.And he criticized that the guides are not facing upward on the leaningrod on the chair. (as weakest flat always face up when a rod is leanedon with angle.) The 1. and 2 above not always lies on opposite sides to each other.Thestrongest and weakest flats sometimes lies just in neighbour, side byside. In such case, the flat which has guides does not face up. Which is the best way? Or any other way of determining the guidesurface? Max --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from Canesplitr@aol.com Tue Dec 29 23:51:02 1998 Subject: Taper mail help I tried sending email taper info to taper@wupsych.wustl.edu. The returnsaidthis address is no longer valid? Is this program still in operation? Isthera current address? thanks in advance, Jim Fillpot from tripp@olywa.net Wed Dec 30 00:45:45 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-56662U5000L500S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:45:24 -0800 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine, I just got my Dec. VISA statement, and lo and behold, there was a $30.00plus charge from The Bamboo Fly Rod. I subscribed after the premierissue,and have only received one or two issues since. About a month ago I wasassured that the subscriber issues, were, to paraphrase, in the mail. Still no issue received. Recent e-mail has remains unanswered. Hmmm. Mark from chris@artistree.com Wed Dec 30 01:22:21 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine mac-creator="4D4F5353" Bob,Maybe I should have ordered my subscription through you instead ;)-- Regards,Chris Wohlford Bob Perry wrote: Don't give up. I have a stack so they are available. Regards, Bob On Sun, 27 Dec 1998 SBDunn@aol.com wrote: I know some copies of issue #4 have apparently shown up in some ofthe shops-- will the subscribers ever get them or should I give up and go buyone? Hasanyone received theirs in the mail? from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Dec 30 08:31:19 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Spline / spine Rods built from one culm do not have a spine if planed accurately and thefinished sections are absolutely straight and without twists.If you roll a section that is not straight the 'jump' you feel is the kink. The'weak' side is actually the concave of the bow. Try it.T. Ackland David wrote: Dear Max To do the best job for your customer, it helps to know how he/she willbeusing the rod. Putting the strongest side on the "belly" will help the rodpull sinking or sink-tip lines out for the backcast. It will also help setthe hook in hard- jawed fishes. Any rod I suspect of being for Steelheadwill get this treatment. I always try a rod with the guides taped onbefore wrapping them permanently. Sometimes I do this for a fewweeks,trying different combinations (most of my rods have three sections) forthemost satisfying effect. Davy Paul, and all Paul thank you for response. What I questioned seems a little different. Yes, I understand the wayyou take.The method you mentioned is to find the weakest flat in my wording andput guides on the opposite flat.(this is the weakest flat in my definition.) It is the opposite of theweakest flat and does not mean the strongest flat (IMHO). I am bending each section by pressing with my parm and finding thestrongest kick back from the blank, then I make the strongest flatupward of my rod (spline). I put guides on the opposite flat of thisspline.(this is the strongest flat in my definition.) It also does notmean the guide surface is the weakest, but weaker for sure.It assures that the upper surface of the rod while casting toward back,is strongest. But if there is a weakest flat next or next to next tothe strongest flat, the rod will not show the guide surface up when itis leaned down. Is my method incorrect? What is the true theory? Appreciate your advices. Max Paul Lyon wrote: Max: I was always taught to spine a rod thus: Stand the section of the rod you want to spine up perpendiculr to thefloorwith the tip end down. With your index finger on the butt end of thesection, press down toward the floor. Whichever way it bends revealsthespine. I was always taught to put the guides on the inside of the curve-the strong side, as you call it. But if you want a stiffer, strongeraction, put the guides on the outside of the curve. That's what I wastaught. Of course, I could be full of it. I prefer putting the guides on the inside of the curve because, Ireason,that's the way the rod wants to bend and you should use thatstructuraltendency in service of the forward cast. There again, I could be full ofit. But that's my theory. Hope I helped. Paul Lyonpaullyon@epix.net Max Satoh wrote: Dear list, Please advise how I should decide the flat on which guides arelocated. There are two thoughts. 1. One is to find the strongest elasticity flat and put guides on theopposit side.2. Two is to find the weakest elasticity flat and put guides on thesurface. I am taking positon of 1. above. It can pick up lines with thestrongest tention of the rod. So does it when a big fish is hooked.But there is some funky guy in my friends who takes position of 2andplace my rod tip on the back of a chair and put the butt on the floor.And he criticized that the guides are not facing upward on theleaningrod on the chair. (as weakest flat always face up when a rod isleanedon with angle.) The 1. and 2 above not always lies on opposite sides to each other.Thestrongest and weakest flats sometimes lies just in neighbour, sidebyside. In such case, the flat which has guides does not face up. Which is the best way? Or any other way of determining the guidesurface? Max --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from fr.keulen@wxs.nl Wed Dec 30 09:01:02 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA1AA3;Wed, 30 Dec 1998 16:00:30 +0100 Subject: Re: Definition of Good Taper Robert Nielsen wrote: As more nominations for the top 25 or 30 tapers are coming in, thequestion of what constitutes a good taper becomes more and morerelevantto the discussion. Each rodbuilder nominating a favorite taper hasdifferent requirements based on his, her, or client's casting style,type of water fished, type of fly, and size/species fished for. Is arod taper great because it can cast an absolutely straight line acountry mile (but requires perfect timing and is worthless for shortcasts) or because it is very forgiving of timing and casting style andcan cast a straight line over a broad range of distances? Does it casta type loop, can it cast a heavy nymph or wet fly, will the tip allowlarge fish to be played on cobweb thin leaders, will it cast into awind, will it keep the backcast above a high bank or brush, will itallow a quick cast to a rising fish from a boat with no false casts, canyou land a steelhead or salmon quickly enough to avoid the fish's death from exhaustion upon its release? Not only are rods used to cast anartificial fly, they are used to mend the line, control the drift of thefly, and to play a fish. All of these factors should be considered. Isuspect there are best tapers for specific purposes (tournament casting,bass plugging, dry fly fish small creeks, steelheading large rivers,etc.), and there are best all-round tapers for people who don't carry 10rods in a golf club bag (I do know people who actually carry multiplerods on the stream for specific uses....one guy uses his children ascaddys). I'm not a tournament caster. I want a rod that is pleasant tocast and enables me to control the fly well in the water and play a fishproperly. I suggested a Holbrook taper because it is makes up into a great allaround flyrod for large water fishing in the northwest (and I wanted ataper nominated from a northwestern rod builder who no longer makesrodscommercially). I also wanted a taper that has been built by a lot ofamateur rodbuilders (hundreds of people in the Seattle area have builtrods on his tapers). I have cast similar tapers in this rod length made summer steelhead fishing and yet have a tip delicate enough to playlarge rainbows on a 7X leader and not require perfect timing will suitmy needs (my casting stroke has been compared to a helicopter with abroken rotor). The Holbrook taper has been extensively used by amateurrodbuilders and was my nomination for an all around rod taper in thiscategory. If the taper needs to be submitted for consideration, I willcall the current NW Fly Anglers Club member organizing their rodbuilding class and see if anyone has a problem with my listing thesetapers. I get the feeling, looking at the taper archive, that large bamboo rodshave fallen out of favor throughout most of the country. Maybe mypreferences have dated me? Actually, I use and have built a lot of thetapers on the current list (including small rods for creek fishing andsmutting fish), but others have beaten me to the punch by recommendingthe excellent tapers of P.H. Young and other rodbuilders. One thing I'venever done is to create an original taper. Maybe that puts mynomination in its proper perspective. I'm certainly learning a lot fromthe interplay of all the creative and talented people on this list.Maybe one of these days I'll take a stab at making some semi-originaltapers and one of them will actually work the way I intended it to (or,with real luck, the laws of unintended consequences will kick in and itwill be a great taper). Rob Nielsen Interesting point of view Rob. Could you let me know where I can find anyHolbrook tapers? Rens Oosthoek from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Dec 30 10:03:39 1998 Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:01:02 -0600 Subject: Re: Dip Tank Motor Reed,If you have adolescents at home you ought to know that lava lamps are abigdeal again. Daughter Sara got one for Christmas - $75. I kicked myselfthe wholetime I was paying for it. Still haven't figured out how to use it forrodmaking,but there must be a way. If nothing else, maybe it will put me in the moodto castthe para taper I'm about to finish.Harry reed wrote: Jim,Remember vinyl records? The motor driving the turntable is perfect application. You can find turntables at most yard sales, near the "Best oftheVillage People" albums, a little to the left of the lava lamps.Best regards,Reed from darrell01@netzero.net Wed Dec 30 10:07:48 1998 (209.154.102.57) Subject: Re[2]: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine boundary="=PMail:=_0003@@8kercPH8CsoyFmthv5z0" --=PMail:=_0003@@8kercPH8CsoyFmthv5z0 Gee, I got my mag free at the Bob Marriott fair in November, so I suspectif you haven't gotten yours by now, some happy mail carrier is enjoyingyour copy. happy new year to all Darrell=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine Bob,Maybe I should have ordered my subscription through you instead ;)-- Regards,Chris Wohlford Bob Perry wrote: Don't give up. I have a stack so they are available. Regards, Bob On Sun, 27 Dec 1998 SBDunn@aol.com wrote: I know some copies of issue #4 have apparently shown up in some ofthe shops-- will the subscribers ever get them or should I give up and go buyone? Hasanyone received theirs in the mail? --=PMail:=_0003@@8kercPH8CsoyFmthv5z0-- from darrell01@netzero.net Wed Dec 30 10:17:44 1998 (209.154.102.57) Subject: Amateur Rodmaking, by Perry Frazer. Published in 1924 byMacMillan boundary="=PMail:=_0004@@bUOclnWoP4qXuZursofw" --=PMail:=_0004@@bUOclnWoP4qXuZursofw Anybody heard of this book and any reviews Darrell --=PMail:=_0004@@bUOclnWoP4qXuZursofw-- from FlyTyr@southshore.com Wed Dec 30 10:36:47 1998 natco.southshore.com(8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA20632 for ;Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:38:21-0600 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine In that case there must be a load of happy mail carriers. Mine don't knowwhat a bamboo rod is, she thought it was a tomato stake.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Darrell Lee wrote: Gee, I got my mag free at the Bob Marriott fair in November, so I suspectif you haven't gotten yours by now, some happy mail carrier is enjoyingyour copy. happy new year to all Darrell======================================== From: Chris Wohlford cc: Internet Mail::[rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod MagazineDate: 12/29/98 11:25 PM Bob,Maybe I should have ordered my subscription through you instead ;)-- Regards,Chris Wohlford Bob Perry wrote: Don't give up. I have a stack so they are available. Regards, Bob On Sun, 27 Dec 1998 SBDunn@aol.com wrote: I know some copies of issue #4 have apparently shown up in some ofthe shops-- will the subscribers ever get them or should I give up and go buyone? Hasanyone received theirs in the mail? from trout@ricochet.net Wed Dec 30 10:58:52 1998 Subject: Re: Interesting book boundary="------------CC8D2165C3AB6879706BFCDF" --------------CC8D2165C3AB6879706BFCDF mac-creator="4D4F5353" Darryl, I checked Mechanical Properties of Bamboo out from the Univ. of Wash.forestrylibrary yesterday. I've only skimmed the book. It's about 130 pages longandrepresents a compilation of reports from technical journals andconferences.The articles are usually summarized down to a publication reference andtable ofresults with an occasional chart. There are no figures other than thecharts(and methods are usually not given) and often, only the publicationreference isgiven. There is no discussion from the editor or in the summarizedarticles.Most of the bamboos are from India, Taiwan, the Philippines, and Japanwith onlya few reports from China and none that I noticed, while skimming thebook, onTonkin cane. The subjects covered were, growth and anatomy, thermalexpansion,moisture content and mass per volume, chemistry, elasticity, bending,compression, shear, tension, torsion, and relationships between selectedproperties. Many of the articles on bending referred to the bendingproperitesof an entire culm. This is a good book for an engineer seeking a reference to articlespublished intechnical journals over the last two decades on the mechanical propertiesofbamboos. Unfortunately, there is little information that can be used by arodbuilder working with tonkin cane (no information on the properties of thespecies of bamboo we use or the methods used in testing the samples). Ialsosuspect that most of these reports were not published originally inEnglish. Ican read non-technical Japanese fairly well and some chinese but I waskind ofhelpless when I tried to follow up on some of the references at the library(although they usually included an abstract written in English). Rob Nielsen SalarFly@aol.com wrote: Has anybody read the following book I found onAmazon.com?Darryl ********************************************************************* Mechanical Properties of Bamboo (Forestry Sciences, Vol 37) Our Price: $84.00 Availability: Usually ships within 24 hours.Holiday Note: Use any shipping method for delivery by Dec. 24. (USaddresses) Hardcover (August 1991)Kluwer Academic Pub; ISBN: 0792312600Amazon.com Sales Rank: 330,510 --------------CC8D2165C3AB6879706BFCDF Darryl,I checked Mechanical Properties of Bamboo out from the Univ. It's about 130 pages long and represents a compilation of reports from summarized down to a publication reference and table of results with an methods are usually not given) and often, only the publication reference summarized Philippines,and Japan with only a few reports from China and none that I noticed,while growthand anatomy, thermal expansion, moisture content and mass per volume,chemistry,elasticity, bending, compression, shear, tension, torsion, and relationships referredto the bending properites of an entire culm.This is a good book for an engineer seeking a reference to articlespublished in technical journals over the last two decades on themechanical that can be used by a rod builder working with tonkin cane (no informationon the properties of the species of bamboo we use or the methods used in were Japanese to follow up on some of the references at the library (although theyusuallyincluded an abstract written in English).Rob NielsenSalarFly@aol.com wrote:Has anybody read the following book I found onAmazon.com?Darryl*********************************************************************Mechanical Properties of Bamboo (Forestry Sciences, Vol 37) Availability: Usually ships within 24 hours.Holiday Note: Use any shipping method for delivery by Dec. 24. (USaddresses)Hardcover (August 1991)Kluwer Academic Pub; ISBN: 0792312600Amazon.com Sales Rank: 330,510 --------------CC8D2165C3AB6879706BFCDF-- from sjstill@iquest.net Wed Dec 30 11:38:02 1998 (209.43.47.168) Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod mag. List, I e-mailed Mark Metcalf about the "latest" issue mail problem. Below ishisreply. I'm frustrated like everyone else, but I guess all we can do iswait. Or buy one from Bob Steve, We sent the subscriber copies to the post office first. They waitedtill after the shops were released many weeks later to inform us theywereholding subscriber copies due to a problem with the second class mailingpermit. The subscriber copies were then released via a bulk permit andarenow in the mail stream. I remain very frustrated at the moment trying tosort out the items thrown at me. I will be continuing to catch up as fastas possible. Thank you and Happy New Year. Mark from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Wed Dec 30 12:19:03 1998 with ESMTP id AAA62B5 for ;Wed, 30 Dec 1998 19:18:40 +0100 Subject: Rod Taper/e-mail adress austrian Alex boundary="------------DE0171398C415B1AE1D6CC80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- DE0171398C415B1AE1D6CC80 Dear Friends 1. Has anyone a 5 - 5.5 ft Rod taper to share. Two Piece, # 4-6, mediumaction? 2. Lost our austrian friend Alex`s e-mail adress ( something named withMarylin?) - can you help me? Cordially Stefan --------------DE0171398C415B1AE1D6CC80 name="gespliesst.vcf" filename="gespliesst.vcf" begin:vcard n:* atelier edelweiss *;S. Grau`s url:http://members.tripod.com/Bamboorods/default.htmadr:;;Brunnadernstr. 31;Berne;Switzerland;3006;Switzerlandversion:2.1email;internet:gespliesst@bluewin.chfn:Bamboo Rods - gespliesste Angelrutenend:vcard --------------DE0171398C415B1AE1D6CC80-- from LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV Wed Dec 30 13:52:13 1998 Subject: two arms rod binders Hello all,I am in the process of building a rod binders. I was wondering if anyonehas instructions on how to build a two arms or two winding heads rodbinders. I saw one from the Golden Witch Rod Co. and it has four windingheads. Pretty cool looking thing. Retails for about $1200.00. Too stiff Andy P.S Does any one have a source for a nice brass drive pulley?. Thanks from rcurry@top.monad.net Wed Dec 30 13:53:51 1998 Subject: FWD: Re: Dip Tank Motor Willis Reid sends along this advice: " Another good source of motors for varnishing is that old Miller HighLife Bouncing Ball light gathering dust in the basement. It plugs into110 and when fitted with an old spool, it works great. By varying thediameter of cord in the spool you can change the withdrawal rate of asection. I find that Millers works better than Ballantyne Ale, andobviously there's room for experimentation here. A good source for these lights is in any father-in-law basement.Klock-it, a company that sells clock parts, has moters that areavailable also-but they get kind of warm when I'm dipping salmon rods. take care, willis" from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Dec 30 13:58:37 1998 0600 Subject: equal triangles List,In much of the how-to literature I read, great emphasis is put onkeeping the angles correct while planing. I have a hard timevisualizing some things, and dropped out of engineering school when Iflunked Graphics. But it seems to me that if your forms are well-made,the triangles should pretty much take care of themselves. One angle iscorrect because of the forms. If you plane down to metal, doesn't thatalmost automatically make the other angles correct?I know I spend a good deal of time checking the angles, and nearlyalways find them very close. Am I accidentally doing something righthere? Harry from pdcorlis@nidc.edu Wed Dec 30 14:08:25 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 30 Dec 1998 12:09:23 -0800 Subject: Tip for Phillipson Paragon? Hi Folks I'm new to this list and hope someone may be able to help. I just got 2/3of a PhillipsonParagon 9' 3 piece 5 5/8 rod and I'd like to rebuild or restoreit. The roddid come with anon-matching tip, but I'd like to find one that belongs on this rod. Anyoneout there with atip to match? If so, please contact me off list... and thanks in advance forthe help! Best of the holidays!Phil Corlis from Anachemrpo@aol.com Wed Dec 30 14:35:19 1998 Subject: Dipping motor, not. Friends deceasedfriend who taught me to do this: Put an old (or new I suppose) fly reel, spooled with backing, in a vise onyour bench. Put a ring eye in the beam (or whatever) above your dip tube. Put on some nice music, run the backing up through the ring eye and attachayardstick to where the rod will be attached, and hang it next to dip tube. Time the clicks while reeling in the backing (watching the yardstick risepast the top edge of your tube while counting clicks per minute) until youcalculate the number of clicks/inches/minute for a draw rate of 4 inches(now,"x" number of clicks) per minute . Attach the rod to be dipped, dip it and crank at the correct number ofclicksper minute (pausing an extra minute or two at the guides, if dipping withguides already wrapped) for the desired draw rate. Relax and enjoy the music until rod is fully withdrawn from tube. Works for me, and provides as close to flawless results as any project Ihaveever undertaken. Russ Lavigne from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Wed Dec 30 14:47:23 1998 30 Dec 1998 15:47:19 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: equal triangles In my (highly) limited experience, I've found that if you aren't carefulwhen you split your strips you can get an angle 90 degrees or slightlygreater along part of an edge, instead of slightly less than 90 as is the primary form for planing, you'll get an angle less than 60 degreesbecause the strip is seated in the form so as to ride up and away fromthe steeper side. This isn't self-correcting when you go to yoursecondary form, for the obvious reason that the strip has room towobble. Usually what happens is that you get an angle slightly lessthan 60 degrees on one side and slightly more on the other. Sometimesthis can be corrected feehand, but I don't recommend it. Eternalvigilance is the price of equilaterality! -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 1998 2:56 PM Subject: equal triangles it seems to me that if your forms are well-made,the triangles should pretty much take care of themselves. One angleiscorrect because of the forms. If you plane down to metal, doesn'tthatalmost automatically make the other angles correct? from bills@nwlink.com Wed Dec 30 16:32:20 1998 Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE3400.B711E440" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE3400.B711E440 Good News.Lots of talk about the status of subscriptions. I too was a charter =subscriber. My copy of "The Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine", July/August =issue, showed up in the mail today.Bill ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE3400.B711E440 Good =News.Lots of talk about the status of subscriptions. I = July/August issue, showed up in the mail today.Bill ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE3400.B711E440-- from hhholland@erols.com Wed Dec 30 17:19:28 1998 Subject: Re: Amateur Rodmaking, by Perry Frazer. Published in 1924 byMacMillan Darrell,Here's some brief info. The book was originally published in 1914 andwentthrough severalreprintings:1931,1934,1936,1937,1939,1941,1944,1945,1946,1947,1948, andApril, 1949 which is the copy I own. Maybe there were others. I forgetwhere I got mine -- on eBay, I think. It is of mainly historical interest,but there is a lot of info in the thing. It is not all about bamboo, asbuilding with solid woods is covered as well. For example, there is atablelisting the specific gravity's of several woods like snakewood, greenheart,lancewood, etc. In the bamboo section, at least in my later edition, headvocates Tonkin cane, saying that Calcutta should not be used. He says heis the first to document the technique almost all of us use to complete awrap by pulling the thread through a few of the previous turns. There areafew tapers given in 64ths at 6-inch intervals. I don't really know whatthebook is worth as a collector's item, but I think anyone interested in thehistory of rod building would find it worthwhile.Hank H. -----Original Message----- Subject: Amateur Rodmaking, by Perry Frazer. Published in 1924 byMacMillan Anybody heard of this book and any reviews Darrell from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Wed Dec 30 17:25:48 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id MAA16084; Thu, 31 Dec 1998 12:23:38 +1300 Subject: Re: Pentas At 11:35 AM 29/12/98 -0600, Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us wrote:Ed , I thought the formula for stress was having 3 sons home for Christmas . So far they have put my wife's car into a tree, drunk all my beer ( notbefore driving) , emptied the fridge , wiped the prop of the boat whilewater sking in shallow water , caught no fish ,taken over the CD playerwith"their " music , and generally disrupted a fairly quiet life. Great to see them come , but also great to see them go . Iank Darryl, The generic equation for stress is simply stress = moment / section modulus The section modulus is a function of the cross sectional shape.. deleted -Ed Estlow from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Dec 30 17:29:08 1998 boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862576=_=_=_"Subject: Scientific Studies --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862576=_=_=_ To All I got the following today from another list and I think it highlightsthe true need todo scientificstudies - Now if we can do one on choosing the best taper when it comesto bamboo fly rods: If you want to see an entertaining "scientific" article on choosingflies, go to this weeks issue of the British Medical Journal www.bmj.com Click on this weeks issue and page down to thearticles section. You should be able to read the entire article. Icame across this while preparing for my class on designing medicalstudies for next semester. I may use it as an example. Ed Davis, PhDProfessor and ChairDepartment of BiostatisticsCB# 7400University of North CarolinaChapel Hill, NC 27599-7400 or if you want to cut to the quick: http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/317/7174/1678 If you want to have a copy - download the pdf version - it prints out just fine. Regards Chris --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862576=_=_=_ ToAll I got the following today from another list and I think it highlights thetrue need to doscientificstudies - Now if we can do one on choosing the best taper when it comesto bamboo fly rods: If you want to see anentertaining "scientific"article on choosingflies, go to this weeks issue of the British Medical Journal www.bmj.com Click on this weeksissue and page down to thearticles section. You should be able to read the entire article. Icame across this while preparing for my class on designing medicalstudies for next semester. I may use it as an example. Ed Davis, PhDProfessor and ChairDepartment of BiostatisticsCB# 7400University of North CarolinaChapel Hill, NC 27599-7400 or if you want tocut to the quick: http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/317/7174/1678 If you want to have a copy - download the pdf version - it prints out just fine. --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862576=_=_=_-- from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Dec 30 17:36:19 1998 Subject: Finally Finished About a year ago I made a couple 2wt 3 piece blanks.I made one for Don Burns, and unfortunately got talkedinto finishing and selling the other one that was supposedto be mine. I finally finished the replacement rod for myself, and I havea mind to name it the "Fairy Wand". It feels like wavinga silk thread around with a straw. Get this! I take it out in my front yard and start trying to cast50 - 60 feet! Double hauling and really trying to load therod. Then it occurs to me - this is a two weight! When am Iever going to cast a two weight 50 feet? Then I settle downand try for 30 feet, and everything fell into place, and it felt pretty good. Should make those local 6 inch trout feel like lunkers. Darryl from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Dec 30 18:16:16 1998 dmanders@telusplanet.net Subject: Re: Re: 25 or 30 best tapers of all time Tony,My thoughts exactly,Hank W. from SBDunn@aol.com Wed Dec 30 19:07:51 1998 Subject: Re: Amateur Rodmaking, by Perry Frazer. Published in 1924 byMacMillan I recently bought a copy and was disappointed -- it does have bamboostuff,but it is very elementary. It is not a very long book and it covers all kindsof rods so it is not very comprehensive -- more of an overview. Steve from darrell01@netzero.net Wed Dec 30 19:54:23 1998 (209.14.77.186) Subject: Re[2]: Amateur Rodmaking, by Perry Frazer. Published in 1924 byMacMillan boundary="=PMail:=_0000@@vBjnt7X8YjpSaJDWg0NA" --=PMail:=_0000@@vBjnt7X8YjpSaJDWg0NA Thanks for the book reviews to all. Well, I'm not a rod maker yet but I have built graphite rods and haverefinished bamboo rods and currently have a handful of projects going.Currently I have Sinclairs rod restoration book and Garrisons book. =Earlier someone said if you get Garrisons book first you may neverattemptto build your own rod... I kinda agree. So what's the number one book I should get (Wayne's book is already onmy list)? It seems very daunting all the talk of the tools, planes, forms... Idon't know if I'm ready to try to build my own blanks. = Darrell=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Mail::[rodmakers@wugat=e.wustl.edu] Subject: Re: Amateur Rodmaking, by Perry Frazer. Published in 1924 byMacMillan I recently bought a copy and was disappointed -- it does have bamboostuff,= but it is very elementary. It is not a very long book and it covers allkindsof rods so it is not very comprehensive -- more of an overview. Steve --=PMail:=_0000@@vBjnt7X8YjpSaJDWg0NA-- ________________________________________________________NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you?Get your FREE Internet Access and Email athttp://www.netzero.net/download.html from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Wed Dec 30 20:11:43 1998 Subject: Annual Xmas Gift Survey Surprise..this year no neon trout, no santas with a fishing rod, no PopielPocket Fisherman. Just a Bellinger Binder from Goldenwitch Tech. from mywife who apparently really was listening to all my simpering. Happy Holidays and A New Year Filled With Health,Happiness,StraightNodesand Time To Do All The Important Stuff..... Like Fish. Dennis Higham from dickay@alltel.net Wed Dec 30 20:45:04 1998 UAA25912; Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Bill, Where do you live? We want to know how far it had to go? If it wasover three blocks from the Orange, CA. office or Post Office, we may haveto wait two years to get our copies. I have the store bought #4 issue really dog-earred by now. As I saidbefore I've had to buy two out of four issues put out so far. I never gotissue #1 as promised.Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net ---------- Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Good News.Lots of talk about the status of subscriptions. I too was a chartersubscriber. My copy of "The Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine", July/August issue,showed up in the mail today.Bill from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Dec 30 20:55:13 1998 Subject: Fw: Re[2]: Amateur Rodmaking, by Perry Frazer. Published in 1924 Darrell, I think you hit it on the head. Wayne's book is really good, andit is very understandable. Tie that in with what you can pick up fromfolks off the list, and you will be making bamboo rods before you know it. I also thought Wayne's video was excellent, and put a lot of the booksinformation in perspective. It had some things in it that I did not pickup from reading the book. I don't have Garrison's book, and have neverread it (someday!), but am on my third rod-mostly thanks to Wayne and thelist. Took me about a year to gather all of the tools, material, etc... I mayhave been slow, broke, fishing, or something else to slow me down. Now Iam planning the next 3 or 4 rods I will build. Best of luck! Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ---------- Subject: Re[2]: Amateur Rodmaking, by Perry Frazer. Published in 1924 byMacMillan Thanks for the book reviews to all. Well, I'm not a rod maker yet but I have built graphite rods and haverefinished bamboo rods and currently have a handful of projects going.Currently I have Sinclairs rod restoration book and Garrisons book.Earlier someone said if you get Garrisons book first you may neverattemptto build your own rod... I kinda agree. So what's the number one book I should get (Wayne's book is already onmy list)? It seems very daunting all the talk of the tools, planes, forms... Idon't know if I'm ready to try to build my own blanks. Darrell======================================== Mail::[rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu] Subject: Re: Amateur Rodmaking, by Perry Frazer. Published in 1924 byMacMillan I recently bought a copy and was disappointed -- it does have bamboostuff,but it is very elementary. It is not a very long book and it covers allkindsof rods so it is not very comprehensive -- more of an overview. Steve ---------- from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 30 23:27:34 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP Thu, 31 Dec 1998 05:27:01 +0000 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine Ditto. Still no trace of my copy. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine In that case there must be a load of happy mail carriers. Mine don't knowwhat a bamboo rod is, she thought it was a tomato stake.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Darrell Lee wrote: Gee, I got my mag free at the Bob Marriott fair in November, so Isuspectif you haven't gotten yours by now, some happy mail carrier is enjoyingyour copy. happy new year to all Darrell======================================== From: Chris Wohlford cc: Internet Mail::[rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod MagazineDate: 12/29/98 11:25 PM Bob,Maybe I should have ordered my subscription through you instead ;)-- Regards,Chris Wohlford Bob Perry wrote: Don't give up. I have a stack so they are available. Regards, Bob On Sun, 27 Dec 1998 SBDunn@aol.com wrote: I know some copies of issue #4 have apparently shown up in some ofthe shops-- will the subscribers ever get them or should I give up and go buyone? Hasanyone received theirs in the mail? from channer@hubwest.com Thu Dec 31 00:43:57 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A4AA1DC013A; Wed, 30 Dec 1998 23:07:38 MST Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine At 08:42 PM 12/30/98 -0600, Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote:Bill, Where do you live? We want to know how far it had to go? If itwasover three blocks from the Orange, CA. office or Post Office, we may haveto wait two years to get our copies. I have the store bought #4 issue really dog-earred by now. As I saidbefore I've had to buy two out of four issues put out so far. I never gotissue #1 as promised.Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net Dick;I got mine today!!!!I live in Durango, Co., generally the last place onearth to get anything.Great article by Per Brandin. Makes me wish I hadstarted this when I was 20 instead of 43. John from maxs@geocities.co.jp Thu Dec 31 01:17:23 1998 mail.geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id QAA09020; Thu, 31 Dec1998 16:17:11 +0900 (JST) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Spline / spine Terry, Thanks for opinion. It is especially right for low weight (#1,#2) rod at very thin tipportion to kink when rolled down. So in summary, I understood this issue like below; As Paul Lyon suggested, guides may be better to be put on the weakestflat (of-course inside of the ark) for lower wt or slow action rod. Iwant to use Paul's Spline finding method next time. And may be better to be put on the strongest flat (inside of ark) forfighting rod like for stealhead or for a poor back caster like me.(probably for more weight rod of #4 or up). Any further comments? Max Terence Ackland wrote: Rods built from one culm do not have a spine if planed accurately and thefinished sections are absolutely straight and without twists.If you roll a section that is not straight the 'jump' you feel is the kink.The'weak' side is actually the concave of the bow. Try it.T. Ackland David wrote: Dear Max To do the best job for your customer, it helps to know how he/she willbeusing the rod. Putting the strongest side on the "belly" will help therodpull sinking or sink-tip lines out for the backcast. It will also helpsetthe hook in hard- jawed fishes. Any rod I suspect of being forSteelheadwill get this treatment. I always try a rod with the guides taped onbefore wrapping them permanently. Sometimes I do this for a fewweeks,trying different combinations (most of my rods have three sections) most satisfying effect. Davy Paul, and all Paul thank you for response. What I questioned seems a little different. Yes, I understand the wayyou take.The method you mentioned is to find the weakest flat in my wordingandput guides on the opposite flat.(this is the weakest flat in my definition.) It is the opposite of theweakest flat and does not mean the strongest flat (IMHO). I am bending each section by pressing with my parm and finding thestrongest kick back from the blank, then I make the strongest flatupward of my rod (spline). I put guides on the opposite flat of thisspline.(this is the strongest flat in my definition.) It also does notmean the guide surface is the weakest, but weaker for sure.It assures that the upper surface of the rod while casting towardback,is strongest. But if there is a weakest flat next or next to next tothe strongest flat, the rod will not show the guide surface up when itis leaned down. Is my method incorrect? What is the true theory? Appreciate your advices. Max Paul Lyon wrote: Max: I was always taught to spine a rod thus: Stand the section of the rod you want to spine up perpendiculr to thefloorwith the tip end down. With your index finger on the butt end of thesection, press down toward the floor. Whichever way it bendsreveals thespine. I was always taught to put the guides on the inside of thecurve -the strong side, as you call it. But if you want a stiffer, strongeraction, put the guides on the outside of the curve. That's what I wastaught. Of course, I could be full of it. I prefer putting the guides on the inside of the curve because, Ireason,that's the way the rod wants to bend and you should use thatstructuraltendency in service of the forward cast. There again, I could be fullofit. But that's my theory. Hope I helped. Paul Lyonpaullyon@epix.net Max Satoh wrote: Dear list, Please advise how I should decide the flat on which guides arelocated. There are two thoughts. 1. One is to find the strongest elasticity flat and put guides on theopposit side.2. Two is to find the weakest elasticity flat and put guides on thesurface. I am taking positon of 1. above. It can pick up lines with thestrongest tention of the rod. So does it when a big fish is hooked.But there is some funky guy in my friends who takes position of 2andplace my rod tip on the back of a chair and put the butt on thefloor.And he criticized that the guides are not facing upward on theleaningrod on the chair. (as weakest flat always face up when a rod isleanedon with angle.) The 1. and 2 above not always lies on opposite sides to each other.Thestrongest and weakest flats sometimes lies just in neighbour, sidebyside. In such case, the flat which has guides does not face up. Which is the best way? Or any other way of determining the guidesurface? Max --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from maxs@geocities.co.jp Thu Dec 31 08:59:34 1998 mail.geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id XAA01035 for; Thu, 31Dec 1998 23:59:29 +0900 (JST) Subject: A happy new year 1999 Hi all, Greeting for new year's day. Akemashite Omedetou Gozaimasu. = A Happy New Year. We started count down to a new year's day here. May all have a good year, nice rods and nice fishing in 1999! Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from ROGWG@nettally.com Thu Dec 31 09:35:48 1998 0500 Subject: unsubscribe boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE34A9.852A1E80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE34A9.852A1E80 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE34A9.852A1E80 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE34A9.852A1E80-- from fr.keulen@wxs.nl Thu Dec 31 09:35:54 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA69DF;Thu, 31 Dec 1998 16:35:20 +0100 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: equal triangles Seth Steinzor wrote: In my (highly) limited experience, I've found that if you aren't carefulwhen you split your strips you can get an angle 90 degrees or slightlygreater along part of an edge, instead of slightly less than 90 as is the primary form for planing, you'll get an angle less than 60 degreesbecause the strip is seated in the form so as to ride up and away fromthe steeper side. This isn't self-correcting when you go to yoursecondary form, for the obvious reason that the strip has room towobble. Usually what happens is that you get an angle slightly lessthan 60 degrees on one side and slightly more on the other. Sometimesthis can be corrected feehand, but I don't recommend it. Eternalvigilance is the price of equilaterality! -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 1998 2:56 PM Subject: equal triangles it seems to me that if your forms are well-made,the triangles should pretty much take care of themselves. One angleiscorrect because of the forms. If you plane down to metal, doesn'tthatalmost automatically make the other angles correct? You're right Seth. Part of the problem could be due to not keeping theplane in a correct, horizontal postition. If you keep planing one side of astrip and keep the plane in a slant position you could end up with a veryuneven triangle.This usually happens when I'm in a hurry.keep the plane in a more or less horizontal position and the form takescareof the correct shape of the triangle Rens Oosthoek from anglport@con2.com Thu Dec 31 09:37:25 1998 Subject: Re: FWD: Re: Dip Tank Motor Willis,They got any motors in the single malt ads? Don't want no beer signsaround.Art At 02:55 PM 12/30/98 -0500, reed wrote:Willis Reid sends along this advice: " Another good source of motors for varnishing is that old Miller HighLife Bouncing Ball light gathering dust in the basement. It plugs into110 and when fitted with an old spool, it works great. By varying thediameter of cord in the spool you can change the withdrawal rate of asection. I find that Millers works better than Ballantyne Ale, andobviously there's room for experimentation here. A good source for these lights is in any father-in-law basement.Klock-it, a company that sells clock parts, has moters that areavailable also-but they get kind of warm when I'm dipping salmon rods. take care, willis" from anglport@con2.com Thu Dec 31 09:49:59 1998 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: equal triangles Harry,I think you answered your own question. You are doing something criticalbyaccident of musculature or bone structure. If you hold the plane so it'snot parallel to the form (not at all hard to do, ask me how I know), you'llforce the enamel over so it's not sitting flat against the side. Thatcauses the apex to shift over to one side or the other of the center of thebase. This is easier to do if you're planing a thick strip in a shallowform. Howell suggests using a mirror at the end of the form to aid in planeattitude adjustment and says that alone is worth the price of his book. Ifanyone has suffered with the "tipping-ailment" they'll agree with him in asecond I suspect. You obviously haven't!If you see that the solution is to shift the plane so it's tipped theother way ( try to plane the long side short and the short side long),you'll see how it can happen in the first place. If you do havevisualization problems, this would be a helluva lot easier with a pic, butI ain't got the capability of sendin' one.Just enjoy your natural-born ability and don't think about it too muchoryou may join the rest of us who have had to deal with it.Happy New Year,ArtAt 01:56 PM 12/30/98 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:List,In much of the how-to literature I read, great emphasis is put onkeeping the angles correct while planing. I have a hard timevisualizing some things, and dropped out of engineering school when Iflunked Graphics. But it seems to me that if your forms are well-made,the triangles should pretty much take care of themselves. One angle iscorrect because of the forms. If you plane down to metal, doesn't thatalmost automatically make the other angles correct?I know I spend a good deal of time checking the angles, and nearlyalways find them very close. Am I accidentally doing something righthere? Harry from ROGWG@nettally.com Thu Dec 31 09:50:39 1998 0500 Subject: Unsubscribe boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE34AB.89DD8280" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE34AB.89DD8280 Help ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE34AB.89DD8280 Help ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE34AB.89DD8280-- from scott@church.com Thu Dec 31 10:06:40 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-10238) with SMTP id AAA86 0500 Subject: Splitting culms Wayne's book describes the technique for splitting culms into strips. However, when I try to split the divided culm into the thin strips, Ihave trouble maintaining the same thickness of strip down through the culm. Sometimes the strip starts off at the thickness I what but halfway down the culm the strip thickness is so thin it isn't usable. It appears that when the splitting knife gets to a node, the thickness of the strip changes. I understand that with experience it may work better (first attempt with bamboo); but does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks! from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Dec 31 10:27:55 1998 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: dipping hookkeepers In a message dated 12/29/98 7:06:05 PM, robert.kope@MCI2000.comwrote: Robert,I use a straight pin passedthrough the ring and stuck in the cork. As Idip the blank and then do the wraps on a rotisserie this works for me.Regards, Hank W. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Dec 31 10:28:29 1998 tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au, saltwein@swbell.net Subject: Re: Re: Database, was The twenty five or thirty best tapers of alltime Now, now boys ,just because you're both basking in the glow of thesoutherncross there's no need to fight over it. :-)Regards,Hank W. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Dec 31 10:29:07 1998 rcurry@top.monad.net Subject: Re: Re: Lifespan of a Bamboo rod Rick, from my own experience I tung oiled a rod I use very hard-it's probablycaught 4000 trout in the last 5 years. It seemed to be losing its crispnessand after reading about water absorption and tung oil on this list I put itinmy oven at 100 deg. F for a week and it seems to be back close to where itwaswhen I made it. I also varnished it with poly spar so we'll see what thenext5 years will bring.Regards,Hank W. from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Dec 31 10:41:45 1998 Subject: Re: Splitting culms In a message dated 12/31/98 8:11:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,scott@church.comwrites: It appears that when the splitting knife gets to a node, the thickness of the strip changes. I understand that with experience it may work better (first attempt with bamboo); but does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks! Splitting in half is always easier than splitting in thirds, butto get 24 strips you have to split in thirds somewhere (3-6-12-24). I split the entire culm in half, then split the half culminto thirds, then each strip into half until I get 12 strips fromthe half culm, and 12 from the other half. This is for butt strips. diameter (2-4-8-16-32). Bamboo splits away from compression and towards tension.If you bend the unsplit portion of your strip in the appropriatedirection you can steer the split. Make sure your split is linedup as you approach a node, because the split will pop acrossa node from about 2 inches before to 2 inches on the other side. You cannot steer the split across a node. Practice. Resign yourself to wasting about a third of your culm Darryl from jczimny@dol.net Thu Dec 31 11:23:59 1998 Subject: Re: Splitting culms Scott,Make sure that your cane is very dry. It will splitt better.John Z Scott Yuill wrote: Wayne's book describes the technique for splitting culms into strips.However, when I try to split the divided culm into the thin strips, I havetrouble maintaining the same thickness of strip down through the culm.Sometimes the strip starts off at the thickness I what but halfway downthe culm the strip thickness is so thin it isn't usable. It appears thatwhen the splitting knife gets to a node, the thickness of the stripchanges. I understand that with experience it may work better (firstattempt with bamboo); but does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks! from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Dec 31 11:48:06 1998 Subject: Another Subject List: The following is told because we think it is important enough. My wife recently had a mammogram that warranted a biopsy. The biopsywarranted a single mastectomy. The surgery was successfully performedDec21st, and on the 23d we got the wonderful news that Shirl is cancer freeandcured with no further treatment necessary. The reason for the good newsisthat the cancer was caught early in it's development and had not begun anoutward march. The reason this is being brought to everyone's attention is to encourageanyand all to insure that no loved one goes without a proper detection routine.Our hanging personal family business out on the internet line is a bitscary,but Shirl and I wanted everyone to know by our example that earlydetection isimportant and effective. Happy New Year to All,Richard Tyree from fr.keulen@wxs.nl Thu Dec 31 12:11:48 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA3B7C +0100 Subject: Payne 101 Could anyone account for the strange thing that there are two completelydifferent tapers for the Payne 101 in the Rodmakers taper archives andthe Stetzer taper archive. The differences must be down to a mistake ofsome sort as the rods they would produce are totally and utterly unlike. Rens Oosthoek from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Dec 31 12:16:18 1998 Subject: Re: Spline / spine Max,John Alden Knight, a famous US FF journalist, fly caster and rod designer.(I thinkhe helped in the design of the parabolic action) once remarked that youcould notfind a high side on a Garrison stick. A stick is a blank section withoutguides. Onceyou put guides in you have introduced an imbalance.The accuracy that is possible with a plane and formers it is possible toproduce TerryMax Satoh wrote: Terry, Thanks for opinion. It is especially right for low weight (#1,#2) rod at very thin tipportion to kink when rolled down. So in summary, I understood this issue like below; As Paul Lyon suggested, guides may be better to be put on the weakestflat (of-course inside of the ark) for lower wt or slow action rod. Iwant to use Paul's Spline finding method next time. And may be better to be put on the strongest flat (inside of ark) forfighting rod like for stealhead or for a poor back caster like me.(probably for more weight rod of #4 or up). Any further comments? Max Terence Ackland wrote: Rods built from one culm do not have a spine if planed accurately andthefinished sections are absolutely straight and without twists.If you roll a section that is not straight the 'jump' you feel is the kink.The'weak' side is actually the concave of the bow. Try it.T. Ackland David wrote: Dear Max To do the best job for your customer, it helps to know how he/shewill beusing the rod. Putting the strongest side on the "belly" will help therodpull sinking or sink-tip lines out for the backcast. It will also helpsetthe hook in hard- jawed fishes. Any rod I suspect of being forSteelheadwill get this treatment. I always try a rod with the guides taped onbefore wrapping them permanently. Sometimes I do this for a fewweeks,trying different combinations (most of my rods have three sections) most satisfying effect. Davy Paul, and all Paul thank you for response. What I questioned seems a little different. Yes, I understand thewayyou take.The method you mentioned is to find the weakest flat in my wordingandput guides on the opposite flat.(this is the weakest flat in my definition.) It is the opposite of theweakest flat and does not mean the strongest flat (IMHO). I am bending each section by pressing with my parm and finding thestrongest kick back from the blank, then I make the strongest flatupward of my rod (spline). I put guides on the opposite flat of thisspline.(this is the strongest flat in my definition.) It also does notmean the guide surface is the weakest, but weaker for sure.It assures that the upper surface of the rod while casting towardback,is strongest. But if there is a weakest flat next or next to next tothe strongest flat, the rod will not show the guide surface up whenitis leaned down. Is my method incorrect? What is the true theory? Appreciate your advices. Max Paul Lyon wrote: Max: I was always taught to spine a rod thus: Stand the section of the rod you want to spine up perpendiculr tothefloorwith the tip end down. With your index finger on the butt end of thesection, press down toward the floor. Whichever way it bendsreveals thespine. I was always taught to put the guides on the inside of thecurve -the strong side, as you call it. But if you want a stiffer, strongeraction, put the guides on the outside of the curve. That's what Iwastaught. Of course, I could be full of it. I prefer putting the guides on the inside of the curve because, Ireason,that's the way the rod wants to bend and you should use thatstructuraltendency in service of the forward cast. There again, I could be fullofit. But that's my theory. Hope I helped. Paul Lyonpaullyon@epix.net Max Satoh wrote: Dear list, Please advise how I should decide the flat on which guides arelocated. There are two thoughts. 1. One is to find the strongest elasticity flat and put guides ontheopposit side.2. Two is to find the weakest elasticity flat and put guides on thesurface. I am taking positon of 1. above. It can pick up lines with thestrongest tention of the rod. So does it when a big fish is hooked.But there is some funky guy in my friends who takes position of 2andplace my rod tip on the back of a chair and put the butt on thefloor.And he criticized that the guides are not facing upward on theleaningrod on the chair. (as weakest flat always face up when a rod isleanedon with angle.) The 1. and 2 above not always lies on opposite sides to eachother.Thestrongest and weakest flats sometimes lies just in neighbour,side byside. In such case, the flat which has guides does not face up. Which is the best way? Or any other way of determining theguidesurface? Max --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Dec 31 12:30:35 1998 dpeaston@wzrd.com, dmanders@telusplanet.net,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Re: Oh God - I've gone and stepped in it Davy,The bit about not repeating the taper (or more likely ,the action) is truein my case. I made 6 or 8 8', 3 pc. for #7 one of which would false cast110'and still give an accurate cast at 15-20'. The rest were nice rods butdidn'ttouch this one. I miced it and could see no significant difference in thetaper. I'm still trying to repeat it in between orders. Talk about the holygrail.Regards,Hank W. from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Dec 31 13:11:03 1998 Subject: Fishing gifts I didn't get it for Christmas, but for my birthday a couple of daysafter, but I think it's the best one of all. The official B.A.S.S. Bass Fishing edition of Monopoly!!! It is complete with fishing related players pieces in the formof a bait casting reel, a fishing hat, a trolling motor, a lure,a tackle box, a bass boat, a leaping bass, and of coursethe all important championship trophy cup! All the properties are renamed appropriately, such as Boardwalkis the Bassmasters Classic Tournament, and Park Place is theBassmastersMegabucks Tournament. Other places are renamedafter different lakes, etc. Chance and Community Chest areLargemouth Bass and Smallmouth Bass. I could go on, but Ithink you get the idea Darryl from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Dec 31 13:25:05 1998 via smap (4.1) 11:27:13 PST Subject: RE: Splitting Culms Scott, I would recommend that for a while you allow yourself a little excess on the strips. Splitting into tiny strips saves planing time, but I think it's a goal you should set for yourself after you've split several culms and get used to the nuances and idiosyncrasies of the bamboo. Figure what your final dimension will be at the base of your strips and add about .120" to the width. That may seem excessive to some, but when your setting the angle on one side of the strip in your rough forms you can take a thicker slice to quicken this process. This allows enough slack that if your strip doesn't split perfectly straight you'll still end up with something you can work with. When your done splitting, your strips should be roughly square in shape or slightly tapered in at the pith side. If they flare out at all on the pith side you should lay the strip on it's side on your workbench and use your plane to knock down the flare. Then, when you plane your 60 degree angle on one side you'll get better results. Also, if you have any strips that have some major "wows" in them, then taking a little time over the kitchen stove to heat them up and hand straighten them (roughly) will make life easier when laying them in your forms and running the plane over them. When you are planing the rough strips to produce your 60 degree triangles you should keep your shavings smaller, like .0015 - .002 . This will help insure that your angles stay correct. This is all information that has been discussed before by others on this list, and I've found it helpful. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from cmj@post11.tele.dk Thu Dec 31 13:38:22 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: And a Happy Rod Year It's 0815 PM and the womenfolks are clearing the table after a deliciousdinner this New YearsEvening. Sipping the last glas of Port (drunk of pure medical reasons,ofcourse) I just want towish all of You a Happy New Year and at the same time say thanks for Yourcontributions to thislist during 1998. Weve had discussions about commercialism, had a little flaming, Lots ofhumour .- but best ofall, we've had a lot of good, creative and well-founded mails, covering allaspects of this ourmutual hobby, cane rod making. Let us strive to continue this during 1999. This almost ended year reallygives a meaning to theexpression "The global Village". Yours faithfully Carsten Jorgensen Dania FlyrodsDenmark from dmcfall@ODYSSEE.NET Thu Dec 31 15:03:29 1998 Subject: Writing on bamboo Am in the process of refurbishing an old rod and wish to write on it. Irecall seeing something about water-proof versus water based ink - thewriting will be done prior to dipping. I have had a look at the archives but have not been able to find the rightpath. Any info will be appreciated. All the very best for a Happy and Prosperous New Year. The way to a fisherman's heart is through his fly. Dave McFalldmcfall@odyssee.net from anglport@con2.com Thu Dec 31 15:28:48 1998 Subject: Re: Writing on bamboo Dave,India ink is not waterproof, but unless you're dipping in waterbased poly,it's impervious to varnish. I dip AND brush over it. If you're using awaterbase covering, I'm outta the discussion!Art At 04:03 PM 12/31/98 -0500, McFall David wrote:Am in the process of refurbishing an old rod and wish to write on it. Irecall seeing something about water-proof versus water based ink - thewriting will be done prior to dipping. I have had a look at the archives but have not been able to find the rightpath. Any info will be appreciated. All the very best for a Happy and Prosperous New Year. The way to a fisherman's heart is through his fly. Dave McFalldmcfall@odyssee.net from Anachemrpo@aol.com Thu Dec 31 16:24:38 1998 Subject: Re: Writing on bamboo Hello Dave, I have used what is called an "Artist Pen" with a .35mm tip to write onrefurbished bamboo and then varnished (spar) over it. The ink should beleft The manufacturer is a company called Grumbacher, and I found it at thelocalart supply store. Russ Lavigne from dickay@alltel.net Thu Dec 31 16:55:08 1998 QAA24515; Subject: Re: Another Subject Richard, I'm sure that I can speak for a good number of those on the listwhen I say that we're glad you feel secure enough to share with us. Yourmessage is well taken. I lost my mother to the effects of breast cancer in1962. Since then my wife and I have lost several family members andgreatfriends to various cancers. It hurts. We're glad that Shirl is nowcancer free. A Happy, Healthy, and Prosperous New Year to you and yours and to all. Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net ----------From: Fallcreek9@aol.com Subject: Another SubjectDate: Thursday, December 31, 1998 11:45 AM List: The following is told because we think it is important enough. My wife recently had a mammogram that warranted a biopsy. The biopsywarranted a single mastectomy. The surgery was successfullyperformedDec21st, and on the 23d we got the wonderful news that Shirl is cancer freeandcured with no further treatment necessary. The reason for the goodnewsisthat the cancer was caught early in it's development and had not begunanoutward march. The reason this is being brought to everyone's attention is to encourageanyand all to insure that no loved one goes without a proper detectionroutine.Our hanging personal family business out on the internet line is a bitscary,but Shirl and I wanted everyone to know by our example that earlydetection isimportant and effective. Happy New Year to All,Richard Tyree from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Dec 31 19:09:20 1998 Subject: Re: Payne 101 Rens,I can only give you the history of the taper I submitted. The owner ofthis rod miked it and gave me the taper on 1" Stations. Total length of therod would have been 90". I sent Jerry, I believe, all the 1" measurements.Note: the rod had a sliding band reelseat, a #4 Tiptop, and a #12 ferrule.Sorry for the typo re: length.Best regards.Reed "F. Keulen" wrote: Could anyone account for the strange thing that there are two completelydifferent tapers for the Payne 101 in the Rodmakers taper archives andthe Stetzer taper archive. The differences must be down to a mistake ofsome sort as the rods they would produce are totally and utterly unlike. Rens Oosthoek from maxs@geocities.co.jp Thu Dec 31 19:26:01 1998 mail.geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id KAA28039; Fri, 1 Jan 199910:25:53 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Splitting culms Scott Yuill wrote: Wayne's book describes the technique for splitting culms into strips.However, when I try to split the divided culm into the thin strips, I havetrouble maintaining the same thickness of strip down through the culm.Sometimes the strip starts off at the thickness I what but halfway downthe culm the strip thickness is so thin it isn't usable. It appears thatwhen the splitting knife gets to a node, the thickness of the stripchanges. I understand that with experience it may work better (firstattempt with bamboo); but does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks! Hi Scott, There is some information on my web which describes the nature ofbamboosplitand one of the ways to help you split it a little more evenly. Mastering split straight by your own hand, it is not easy. Max- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Dec 31 22:33:44 1998 Subject: Re: Dip Tank Motor Art,Nah, nothing with hysterisis. I can't even do the Lambada.My procedure was simplicity itself (look to the source). I figured thattheturntable already had most of the components I wanted, well mounted andinsulated;so I simply removed the bottom exposing the wiring and extended the lineon thepressure switch that indicates whether the arm is locked down. Then Iglued a 1"pulley to the shaft of the turntable and tipped it on its side. I built a pinefoursided frame and positioned a 6" pulley on a half inch shaft above the1"pulley. The line to the rod is fastened to this shaft and passes through twotinybrass pulleys hanging from cup hooks in the joists above. I can move thewholething in a minute by taking the pulleys off the cup hooks and picking up thepineframe.My calculations give me a 6" per minute pull rate, but I haven't timed it.Mynext step will be positioning the pressure switch so that somthingclamped on theline can trigger it to the off position when the pull is complete. Wait aminute,I just remembered, I have an old programmable XR10 which I can set toprovidepower to the turntable, cutting power for a minute at predefined intervalstoallow the snakes to drip. It may take me several hours to properly programforeach rod section...Best regards,Reed Art Port wrote: Reed,I thought those motors went a mile a minute. How do you slow it downenoughto pull 2" a minute? Or are you talking about some hysterisissynchronousdirect drive or something?Art from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 31 22:36:05 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP Fri, 1 Jan 1999 04:35:33 +0000 Subject: Re: Another Subject Glad all went well and best wishes to you and your wife. Also on thissamenote, the post office is selling a series of first class stamps at $0.40each where the additional $0.08 goes toward breast cancer research. Have a great new year!George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: Another Subject List: The following is told because we think it is important enough. My wife recently had a mammogram that warranted a biopsy. The biopsywarranted a single mastectomy. The surgery was successfully performedDec21st, and on the 23d we got the wonderful news that Shirl is cancer freeandcured with no further treatment necessary. The reason for the good newsisthat the cancer was caught early in it's development and had not begun anoutward march. The reason this is being brought to everyone's attention is to encourageanyand all to insure that no loved one goes without a proper detectionroutine.Our hanging personal family business out on the internet line is a bitscary,but Shirl and I wanted everyone to know by our example that earlydetectionisimportant and effective. Happy New Year to All,Richard Tyree