from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Feb 1 01:24:45 1997 ; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 01:24:43 -0600 Subject: Re: Corey steel co -OOPS 0f 95 I recieved a letter that updated me with their current address andphone numbers - Well somehow I typed it into the wrong list so for thoselooking to contact tem try the following: Corey Steel Company2800 S. 61 st CTCicero, IL 60650 or Corey Steel CompanyP. O. Box 5137Chicago, IL 60680 - 5137 Phone 708 - 863 - 8000Fax 708 - 863 - 1288 FYI - The 7/8" rod stock works well for reel seats - it weights 2 1/8 #perfoot and it is sold in 12' lengths at about $10/ pound Wayne from dcanny@mhtc.net Sat Feb 1 07:35:33 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA25139 for; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 07:35:31 -0600 pearl.mhtc.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA06910 for Subject: 1882 patented Orvis rod Ment to add that the handle and reelseat are separate, with the bottom of the butt's male ferrule fitting into the top of the handle's female ferrule. David from FFer4trout@aol.com Sat Feb 1 10:53:56 1997 ; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 10:53:55 -0600 Subject: Re: l882 patented orvis rod In a message dated 97-01-31 23:48:29 EST, you write: Subj: l882 patented orvis rodDate: 97-01-31 23:48:29 ESTFrom: dcanny@mhtc.net (David Canny)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Hi,Saw an Orvis 9.5' 1882 patent date, with strip cork grip, ns reelseat with simple slip ring today in an antique store. In good shape, two tips full length, one tiptop missing. Cloth bag and round wood case also in good shape. Any idea what the value would range on this?Also saw a very unusual hexagon rod, 10.5', wood handle with turnedrings to imitate ratan painted black, the rod was nicely wrapped with leather as a finished surface. Has anyone heard of this. I have never read anything about this practice. Any info would be appreciated. Thankyou in advance. David David, I'd think these rods are now best used for wall-hanging or for a museum.Value would be more for their historical interest. Contact Len Cordella inFL(352 637-5454) or Martin Keane in Mass. (413 229-7988) for an idea oftheirvalue. Orvis could give you some info. on the Orvis rod, they have greatrecords. Don Burns from GLohkamp@aol.com Sat Feb 1 11:51:55 1997 ; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 11:51:54 -0600 Subject: Re: Tapers III Bill and Hank l've been reading your b.s for alittle while now and want to jump back in. luse the graph method for plotting tapers because its the only thing l canunderstand . Stress curves would be the soul of a rod but sometimes thatsoul is pretty well hidden , if you try to do the math backwards ( startwitha taper and work back to get a curve )you end up with a very radical curve. lt has something to do with the thewaythe numbers are rounded off , when your dealing with sq, and cube roots. The only reason l,ve tried this is because if l use one of the stress curvesin waynes or garrisons book , all my rods would be that type of action andlprefer something alittle different, not to say that those rods are bad. Justthat l like something more Dickerson like . l was wondering if either of you have fooled around with straight tapers?Thanks Gary from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Feb 1 13:45:54 1997 ; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 13:45:51 -0600 Subject: Re: Tapers III Gary,Most of the tapers I've liked have been straight tapers, with a littlevariation here and there-sometimes I parabolic the tips slightly-I haveyetto build a full parabolic. That's next on the agenda after I finish my secondnodeless.Hank. from GLohkamp@aol.com Sat Feb 1 16:24:59 1997 ; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 16:24:57 -0600 Subject: Re: Tapers III Hank Have you used a taper of .014x 5 inches ? This is somewhat a favorite ofmine niceto use . Another l like is a three peice taper .013 -.014- .015 . it's not bad in atwo peice configuration . This can be flipped around and a dry fly or wetflyaction will result.How fast a taper have you tried ?? and what did you think of it ? l've goneas far as .018 x 5 and found it to be a very fast rod compared to what l hadbeen making . l'll have to wait until spring to really try it out . Thanks Gary from GLohkamp@aol.com Sat Feb 1 16:52:42 1997 ; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 16:52:39 -0600 Subject: Rod builders meeting Hello list Just thought that l should post another notice about the meeting inPortlandOregon this coming April 12th . lf anyone is interested in attending thereare a few spaces left please contact me thanks Gary Lohkamp glohkamp@ aol .com from Fquinchat@aol.com Sat Feb 1 19:21:47 1997 ; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 19:21:45 -0600 Subject: Re: Tapers III Gary: You mention preference for Dickerson like tapers. Do you have the taperfora 8014 Guide? I'd like to build one. Dennis, Brighton MI from rcurry@jlc.net Sat Feb 1 20:20:12 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA21534 for; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 20:20:10 -0600 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA10812 for Subject: Re: l882 patented orvis rod David,I have handled an Orvis of that vintage. The "wet fly" (straight taper)action is not to modern tastes, so I believe few would purchase such anitem for use. (I enjoy that type of rod, sometimes.) But if you can getit for a reasonable price ($125 or less), you might have a rod for thoselazy summer days.Best regards,Reed from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Feb 1 22:29:24 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA28022 for; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 22:29:22 -0600 Subject: Re: Varnish Karl wrote: At 11:08 31/01/97 -0500, you wrote:Here are a couple of varnish questions: 1) I have only used spar varnish up till now. I have a little one-piece rodwith a second coat drying now. Drying time is always slow on thismaterial,but I wondered if I could help myself with a little heat. Nothing dramatic,just a tube with a 100 watt bulb for a gentle column of heated air. Anycomments on this process ? Tis the process I use - a cabinet with a 100W bulb - @ room temperatureinthe surroundings - inside the cabinet is about 95F. Keeps most of the dustoff too! I try to wait until the feel has no tack to it and then 4-0 steel wool thesurface for the next coat. This is the first wipe-on finish I've tried andthings look promising. 2) After some dialog with Don Anderson, Jonathan Clarke and few otherfolks,I'm setup tp try polyurethane and tung oil test finishes on the next coupleof rods.The tung oil seems straightforward enough, but the drying cycle on thepolyurethane is a problem. The can instructions clearly say that therecoattime should be about 8 hours....before the preceeding coat completelydries.On the other hand, I have some notes from a post on the list that sayswait24 hours and do the steel wool drill before coating. What is a provenrecoatcycle? Both work - the secret is to have a "tooth" on the previous coating for thenext coating to bind onto. If a chemical "tooth" - recoat time as cansuggests - for mechanical "tooth" use steel wool or equivalent. Note thatthe recoat time is interdepentant on both humidity and temperature - forAtlanta's humidity and temp. [ especially if your heating cabinet works]recoat time could be cut to 4>5 hours. regards, Don Always appreciate your generous comments. Karl Hube from JHecht9234@aol.com Sun Feb 2 11:01:08 1997 ; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 11:01:02 -0600 Subject: Lathe question I need a lathe to dress and mount ferrules, and to turn cork grips. I haveseen reference to Sherline lathes as a good alternative. If someone isfamiliar with these, could you recommend a model that is suitable, a goodsource (can you buy direct?), and any attachments/accessories I wouldneed would be helpful. Latheless in D.C. from JCZIMNY@dol.net Sun Feb 2 11:51:41 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA01513 for ;Sun, 2 Feb 1997 11:51:40 -0600 Subject: Re: Lathe question JHecht9234@aol.com wrote: I need a lathe to dress and mount ferrules, and to turn cork grips. I haveseen reference to Sherline lathes as a good alternative. If someone isfamiliar with these, could you recommend a model that is suitable, agoodsource (can you buy direct?), and any attachments/accessories I wouldneed thatwould be helpful. Latheless in D.C. If all you want to do is to turn ferrule stations with abrasive paper mounted on a block of wood and do cork handels. You might well consider a wood lathe with a three-jaw chuck mounted. I know where a good Rockwell wood lathe is for pretty cheap.John from santiago@ricochet.net Sun Feb 2 13:01:21 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA03546 for; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 13:01:19 -0600 Organization: Home Subject: Re: Lathe question John Zimny wrote: JHecht9234@aol.com wrote: I need a lathe to dress and mount ferrules, and to turn cork grips. Ihaveseen reference to Sherline lathes as a good alternative. If someone isfamiliar with these, could you recommend a model that is suitable, agoodsource (can you buy direct?), and any attachments/accessories I wouldneed thatwould be helpful. Latheless in D.C. If all you want to do is to turn ferrule stations with abrasive papermounted on a block of wood and do cork handels. You might well considera wood lathe with a three-jaw chuck mounted. I know where a goodRockwell wood lathe is for pretty cheap.John john, if latheless in DC doesn't consider this, please let me know as i am looking for such a lathe and cheap... leo 206.440.2895 pst. thanks much! from JHecht9234@aol.com Sun Feb 2 18:05:36 1997 ; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 18:05:35 -0600 Subject: Re: Lathe question Would be interested in info. on wood lathe. Please post or e-mail medirectly. Thanks. from 73251.1513@CompuServe.COM Sun Feb 2 18:53:34 1997 SAA14983 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 18:53:33 -0600 Subject: Lie-Nelson Plane I recently noted that Lie-Nelson has included a block plane in the toolstheyoffer. Has anyone had any experience using the plane? I have been using aRecord with a Hoch blade with very good success. I have also used a Lie-Nelsonscraper which is a beautifully made tool and a joy just to hold in oneshand. from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Sun Feb 2 20:20:01 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA18585 for; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 20:19:50 -0600 Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:19:31 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Lie-Nelson Plane I dont't *think* the LN block plane has an adjustable throat? Tony I recently noted that Lie-Nelson has included a block plane in the toolstheyoffer. Has anyone had any experience using the plane? I have been usingaRecord with a Hoch blade with very good success. I have also used a Lie-Nelsonscraper which is a beautifully made tool and a joy just to hold in oneshand. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Sun Feb 2 20:23:11 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA18679 for; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 20:22:57 -0600 Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:22:49 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Lathe question I have the metric model 4100, I think the one you'd be looking at would be the 4000. This model has a shorter bed than is available and wouls serve well enough. I like mine a lot.They have a page which you can locate using YAHOO which has pricelistsas well as info sheets. Worth a look if you're interested.I guess you'd pay circa $500 in the US. Tony I need a lathe to dress and mount ferrules, and to turn cork grips. I haveseen reference to Sherline lathes as a good alternative. If someone isfamiliar with these, could you recommend a model that is suitable, agoodsource (can you buy direct?), and any attachments/accessories I wouldneed thatwould be helpful. Latheless in D.C. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jfoster@gte.net Sun Feb 2 21:10:30 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA20087 for; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 21:10:29 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id VAA06534 for; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 21:10:24 -0600 Subject: Binders Chris submitted a great article on tuning the Garrison binder.you can find it under "Tips" also has a good picture of his binder andshop. Jerry from plipton@sunvalley.net Sun Feb 2 21:18:14 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA20315 for; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 21:18:13 -0600 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with SMTP id AAA389 Organization: Sun Valley Rods Subject: Re: Lie-Nelson Plane Karl: Lie-Nelson makes a beautiful small block plane. I use mine for thefinishing cuts on all my sections. It may not be in their catalog butthey do make a model with an adjustable throat. The throat plate is heldin place with two small screws. They include an extra plate. You canremove the plate and file it to the clearance you want. The Lie-Nelsonplane is shorter and narrower than either the Stanley of Record planes.I like the heft of the Stanley to bring strips down to the planing form.The width helps keep me from digging into the form. But I like theLie-Nelson when I am trying to remove the last half thousandth becausethe small plane is easier to handle. KARL W. ALMQUIST wrote: I recently noted that Lie-Nelson has included a block plane in the toolstheyoffer. Has anyone had any experience using the plane? I have been usingaRecord with a Hoch blade with very good success. I have also used a Lie-Nelsonscraper which is a beautifully made tool and a joy just to hold in oneshand. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Philip Lipton PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208-726- 0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from plipton@sunvalley.net Sun Feb 2 21:36:04 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA21331 for; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 21:36:02 -0600 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with SMTP id AAA241 Organization: Sun Valley Rods Subject: Re: Lathe question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------78A22C7B4339 Latheless: Here is the Sherline home page: http://www5.electriciti.com/sherline/ I use this lathe and like it. It is the best deal I could find. In myarea, there are not a lot of old machine shops to find a used piece ofequipment. There is a limitation with the small spindle diameter. Youcannot put a rod back in the lath after you mount a ferule or stripper.Some of the wood lathes that are fitted with a chuck have enoughclearance to avoid the limitation JHecht9234@aol.com wrote: I need a lathe to dress and mount ferrules, and to turn cork grips. I haveseen reference to Sherline lathes as a good alternative. If someone isfamiliar with these, could you recommend a model that is suitable, agoodsource (can you buy direct?), and any attachments/accessories I wouldneed thatwould be helpful. Latheless in D.C. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Philip Lipton PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208-726- 0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ --------------78A22C7B4339 Content-Base: "http://www5.electriciti.com/sherline/" Sherline Products Home Page This site last updated or information added on1/27/97.Since December 18, 1995, this site has been visited by 64,885people. (1/26/97) The SHERLINE Products On-LineCatalogSHERLINE Miniature Machine ToolsSections...Welcome to the World of MiniatureMachiningAbout SHERLINE's Tools and Why They're Right forYouFrequently Asked Questions about SHERLINEtoolsSHERLINE Machinists Talk about usingtheir machines in hobbies and industryFeatures of SHERLINE LathesFeatures of SHERLINE Vertical MillingMachinesSetting Up and Using A SHERLINE Lathe orMill Table of ContentsSHERLINE Accessories (Description andcomplete instructions for each and every accessory we make. Lots of goodinformation!)SHERLINE Dealer ListingCNC Conversion Companies for SHERLINEToolsSHERLINE Tools and ChucksPrice ListSHERLINE Accessories Price ListSHERLINE Replacement Parts Price ListTips from SHERLINE Machinists give you waysto improve your machine or get a job done faster or easierSHERLINE's Miniature Machinist's Challenge CONTEST at the North American Model Engineering Society (N.A.M.E.S.)Show1996 Machinist's Challenge Winners withpictures of the winning entriesInternational Miniature Machinist'sAssociation needs your inputOther Resources and Hotlinks forMachinists Other SHERLINE Products... Full Size Machining Chucks and Accessories LOADMASTER Trailer Tongue Weight andSuspended Hydraulic Scales by SHERLINEFREE Trailer Loading and TowingGuideSHERLINE "Inspection Grade" Race CarAlignment SystemNEW! To learn more about aligningthe suspension of a race car, read Joe Martin's article prepared forVictory Lane magazine. It's called Straighten Up and Fly Right. We've also added asection on How to Make Your Own AlignmentBars.SHERLINE News, People and The Story of SHERLINE...Happenings, offers up-to-the-minute newsand product updates from SHERLINESHERLINE People, the faces and storiesbehind the voices on the phoneA History of SHERLINE Products, from itsbeginnings in Australia to today and beyond Check out SHERLINE's Special of theMonth!Offered only to those who see it on this Internet Site, a selected tool oraccessory is available at a substantial savings. Click on the underlinedheadline above to check out this month's special.New Sections:SHERLINE Replacement Parts Price ListNew Products: Mill Tooling Plate, P/N3560 saves your Mill Table and makes setups easier.Making Gravers is an article by worldreknowned watch and clock maker William R. Smith. It will accompany thenew T-Rest we are producing from his design. It will be available soon aspart number 2110.The article is available now if you would like to learnmore about turning metal with handheld tools. Welcome to theWorld of Miniature Machining!Hi, we're glad you stopped by to look at the SHERLINE catalog. This site hasbeen up and running since the end of 1995, and it has grown to the pointwhere it would take over 410 pages to print out everything we have madeavailable to you. Of course, not everything will be of interest to you rightnow, but remember that a lot of good information on miniature machiningis here should you even need to come back for it. and what they are used for. If you are new to machining, you may hearsome terms you are not familiar with. Don't let that worry you, as theinstructions that come with our tools are the most complete on themarket, and using the tools is fun and easy. Speaking of instructions, we have posted instruction sheets for every oneof our tools and accessories for your edification and enjoyment. It was atime consuming process, as it has taken us over 20 years to compile allthis information. It took a while to get them all reformatted for the web,but they're all available now. You get real, "how to" instructions on the useof tools and accesories that will be helpful for machinists using all kindsof equipment, not just SHERLINE. Click on the "SHERLINE Accessories"section above. Each of the underlined part names in that section is linkedto a set of illustrated instructions. By the way, for $10 you can order abinder containing most of the instructions that will be posted here if youdon't have a printer or want higher resolution on the line art. Call our tollfree number to order.We also provide links whenever possible to other sources of informationof interest to machinists. It is our goal to make SHERLINE's web site themost complete source of machining information avialable. Despite thesmall size of our tools, the information we have to offer usually appliesto machining practices regardless of size.We will not be answering E-mail or taking orders at this site, butencourage you to call our toll free number to order our free 36-page colorcatalog and price list or to order products you read about on this site.We'll be happy to answer any questions you may have about our products.Our office hours are M-F 8 AM to 4 PM (0800-1600) Pacific time. Thenumber is:1-800-541-0735 in theUSA.Outside the USA call: (619) 744-3674Our Fax is (619) 744- 1574Return to beginning of SHERLINE's home page. MACHINIST'S CHALLENGE CONTESTRESULTS!Scotty Hewett's Red Race Car Takes theWin at Wyandotte This little 5" long race car won the hearts and votes ofspectators at the N.A.M.E.S. show April 27th and 28th, 1996.ScottyHewitt built it from scratch using SHERLINE tools. (Body removed so youcan see frame and engine.)DATELINE: WYANDOTTE, MICHIGAN, April 29,1996 garnered the most votes in SHERLINE's Machinist's Challenge at the NorthAmerican Model Engineering Society (NAMES) Show. Scotty has been a racecar driver here and in Europe all his life, and he has only recently taken upminiature machining as a hobby. In that time, however, he has developed astyle of his own which appeals to spectators at the show. Since thespectators do the voting, he has aparantly found a winning combination. The past 2 years' winners have been versions of a 4-cylinder, oscillatingmarine engine. This year his 5" long tugboat with a sub-miniature steamengine took 3rd place, but his red, CO2-powered version of an old dirttrack car was popular in this suburb of Detroit. He designed and built the5" long car from the ground up, including not just the frame, engine anddrive system, but also the sculpted, red body and hand carved driver figurehunched over the wheel. (For those who saw it, the driver wasn't in placeat the show to better display the engine.) Second place, and by far the top choice of the expert machinists who casttheir votes, was a working version of a micro-lathe crosslide with cuttingtool turret by Wilhelm Huxhold of Ontario, Canada. The quality of finishand level of detail were beyond amazing! Pictures of some of the otherentries will be scattered throughout this site, including a shot of the toptwo finishers which will appear right here as soon as the film isdeveloped and scanned.These projects are the best illustration we can offer of the kind of thingswhich can be built on precision miniature machine tools like thosemanufactured by SHERLINE. In fact, though not a requirement of thecontest, Scotty's entries are all built using SHERLINE tools. Check the "N.A.M.E.S. CONTEST" page in this site to see howyou can enter and win a part of the cash purse in next year's contest.Sooner or later, ONE of you can surely break Scotty's streak ofwins!Return to beginning of SHERLINE's home page. Copyright 1996, Sherline Products Inc. All rights reserved.No part of this web site, including the text, photos or illustrations, maybe reproduced or transmitted in any other form or by any means(electronic, photocopying, recording or otherwise) for commercial usewithout the prior written permission of Sherline Products Inc. --------------78A22C7B4339-- from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Mon Feb 3 00:08:03 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA29517 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 00:08:00 -0600 Mon, 3 Feb 1997 14:07:57 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Lathe question I use this lathe and like it. It is the best deal I could find. In myarea, there are not a lot of old machine shops to find a used piece ofequipment. There is a limitation with the small spindle diameter. Youcannot put a rod back in the lath after you mount a ferule or stripper.Some of the wood lathes that are fitted with a chuck have enoughclearance to avoid the limitation You can remove the tailstock to gain extra length, then work on the lefthand side of the headstock. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Mon Feb 3 09:07:36 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04690 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:07:35 -0600 Subject: Re: Rod Transport II Bill Fink seez... Your concern about your first Epoxy rod is "deja-vue" all over again....Now I'm a bit worried about Titebond II splices for nodeless, but afterthe first year all is well. How else do we progress? Just curious Bill...after you glue up your splices and plane, doyou use Titebond to glue up the splines? Seems like if it wouldwork for the splices, it should work for the splines. Anyone else out there using Titebond for rod gluing? Mike - in search of the perfect LazyMan's glue - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from whensel@ix.netcom.com Mon Feb 3 09:40:53 1997 ; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 07:40:49 -0800 Subject: Kicked out of cycberspace but still planing To All,I bought a pop camper and maxed out my last credit card. I have decided to sell off most of my things bigscreen, sterio, and lots of ham equipment in order to lessen the credit card debt.I have one rod glued up and will have another glued up by this WEDnesday. So for anyone who is interested I am very much into the rod building. Joe from Rocky Mountain has been a gret assest in helping me along this path and I personal thank him.If there are no more postings from me then you know my servers said good by to me and I did not have time to sell off my things. So be it I will miss you all but if anyone wants to communicate with me below is my address.Oh yes Mr. Cattanack you will recieve money for the oven by the 15th of this month. My address is : Bill Hensel4701 So Delaware St.Englewood, Colorado 80110 Tel 1-303-783-3957 Good bye to all if worst comes to worst. I want to tell all beginners to continue their building and if I can I will show up to Graylock in June. See You All Later either on the streams or in the next life, Bill from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Mon Feb 3 09:41:57 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA07515 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:41:55 -0600 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: Wood Forms I'm in the middle of building a set of wooden planing forms per BruceConner's instructions. So far, so good. If anything, I've learned howto turn a good edge on a scraper. I'm at the point where I'm about to make the tapered groove in the forms.Bruce's write-up talks in terms of the width at each station but the depthgauge measures the depth. There is a factor of .866 between the widthandthe depth. It says "each station is .005 inches wider than the last one."Should this be taken literally, or is the intent that the depth reading ateachstation be .005 wider than the reading at the last station? Incidentally, for the benefit of any new kids who will be building thewooden forms, my total cash outlay was $62. This included all rawmaterialsand a few tools which I didn't have. I had to substitute a shoulder boltwhich had a 5/16-18 threaded section in place of the 1/4-20 called out inthe instructions. I got the shoulder bolts from ENCO (after a 3-weekwait). Thanks in advance for the help and thanks especially to Bruce Conner forthe excellent instructions. Bob MatarazzoMelville, NY from jfoster@gte.net Mon Feb 3 09:47:52 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA07696 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:47:51 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id JAA18756 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:47:48 -0600 Subject: Re: Lathe question I have a Carba-tec mini lathe. it's integrally powered and has a 1/2thru headstock. Works great for all rodmaking applications except metalwork. has a three jaw chuck etc. around $220 at woodcraft. Jerry from dmichels@usitc.gov Mon Feb 3 10:23:47 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA10300 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:23:44 -0600 Subject: unsubscribe from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Mon Feb 3 13:53:49 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA29269 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:53:43 -0600 with BSMTP id 6069; Mon, 03 Feb 97 14:52:36 EST MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 3184; Mon, 3 Feb 199714:52:36 -0500Subject: plotting tapers Are you folks plotting tapers by paper and pencilor are you using pc software? And whichever, whenplotting are you using raw diminsions or transformingthe data in some way? Just wondering as I've beenfooling around with tapers on Harvard Graphics. Bob from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Mon Feb 3 15:00:08 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA03415 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:00:06 -0600 Subject: Re: plotting tapers Bob, Looks like there is still some of us the plot the tapers. Graduated to usinga spreadsheet within excel to do the graphing. Works just fine. Use bothrawflat to flat dimension and difference betwix the dimension/5" of rodtravel.Need further, send me personal email. Regards, Don At 14:49 03/02/97 EST, you wrote:Are you folks plotting tapers by paper and pencilor are you using pc software? And whichever, whenplotting are you using raw diminsions or transformingthe data in some way? Just wondering as I've beenfooling around with tapers on Harvard Graphics. Bob from cbogart@ibm.net Mon Feb 3 17:56:48 1997 ; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 17:56:35 -0600 ; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 18:58:06 -0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Rod Transport II Mike - in search of the perfect LazyMan's glue - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. Mike Try Bill Dinasoar epoxy AKA Shell Epon. It is closeto it as you could ask for. Long working time, no heat cure,binding cord easily removed from blank - takes low heatto straighten. Now all you need is lazy man planing system. Chris from rcurry@jlc.net Mon Feb 3 19:58:13 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA23155 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 19:58:06 -0600 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA13577 for Subject: Another pearl of wisdom found to be clam spit Did you ever listen to fisher folk years ago, when all rods hadferrules, describe their rods as 17/11 or 15/9, i.e., by the sizes ofthe ferrules? It really was quite popular, as a matter of fact, Ibelieve I have a cane rod makers catalogue somewhere that uses suchdescriptions. We really seemed to believe that it meant something, it seems to makesense, doesn't it? (Of course, many books suggested purchasing fly linesbased upon the physical weight of the finished rod. We know what that'sworth.) Anyway, I was stripping a new (1910ish) rod the other day and decided tocompare the ferrule sizes with beefier blanks. The new rod is a "ladies"wet fly, 8'6", 3/2, Calcutta cane, with a 4 inch cork grip (bizarre!).Nice rod, but very delicate, I assumed it would break the mold and nothave a 6-7 difference between ferrules. Wrong! It was a 16/10. I hauledout another 8'6", 3/2, 6wt., and it was also a 16/10. There is nosimilarity between the two rods, RodA has 1/2 the "wood" of RodB. This is, of course, no earthshaking revelation, but it exploded yetanother of my old myths. Now just don't anyone out there impugn thecharacter of Mr. Clinton, or I'll have nothing left. Best regards,Reed from rgriff@tcac.com Mon Feb 3 20:41:50 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA24960 for ;Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:41:49 - 0600 odin.tcac.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id UAA45580 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:45:22 -0600 Subject: Re: Titebond II Bill Fink seez... Your concern about your first Epoxy rod is "deja-vue" all over again....Now I'm a bit worried about Titebond II splices for nodeless, but afterthe first year all is well. How else do we progress? Just curious Bill...after you glue up your splices and plane, doyou use Titebond to glue up the splines? Seems like if it wouldwork for the splices, it should work for the splines. Anyone else out there using Titebond for rod gluing? Mike - in search of the perfect LazyMan's glue - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. Darryl Hayashida was using Titebond II, but I haven't seen a post from himin quite some time.Ron Griffithaka Wind knot"Any clod can have the facts, but having an opinion is an art." Charles McCabe from rklmeb@tiac.net Mon Feb 3 20:55:28 1997 ; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:55:27 -0600 maildeliver0.tiac.net (8.8.0/8.8) with ESMTP id VAA20750 for zork.tiac.net (8.8.2/8.6.6.Beta9) with SMTP id VAA11682 for Subject: Unsubscribe please take me off the list for now. Thanks.Richard K. Lodge from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Mon Feb 3 21:14:32 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA26439 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 21:14:29 -0600 Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:14:25 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Rod Transport II That's a good question, but I've found that alaphatic glues have a quick "grip" time which is fine for scarfs, but tricky when you need a bit of time like when the splines are bound, but need straightening. Tony Bill Fink seez... Your concern about your first Epoxy rod is "deja-vue" all over again....Now I'm a bit worried about Titebond II splices for nodeless, but afterthe first year all is well. How else do we progress? Just curious Bill...after you glue up your splices and plane, doyou use Titebond to glue up the splines? Seems like if it wouldwork for the splices, it should work for the splines. Anyone else out there using Titebond for rod gluing? Mike - in search of the perfect LazyMan's glue - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us Tue Feb 4 05:17:18 1997 FAA27437 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 05:17:17 -0600 Subject: Re: Lathe question At 09:48 AM 2/3/97 -0600, you wrote:I have a Carba-tec mini lathe. it's integrally powered and has a 1/2thru headstock. Works great for all rodmaking applications except metalwork. has a three jaw chuck etc. around $220 at woodcraft. Jerry To anyone Interested in Lathes.The one advertised in The Planing Form and sold by J.C. Bogeman is anexcellent investment. Does everything the rodmaking could want at a goodprice, under $300. It comes ready to go and sets up in about 10 minutesoutof the box, Ron Barch from wliebbra@plessey.co.za Tue Feb 4 05:46:02 1997 +0200 smap (V3.1) 4 Feb 97 13:47:27 GMT+0200 GMT+0200 Organization: PLESSEY TELLUMAT Subject: Ferrules Priority: normal Can anybody out there help me with an alternative (cheaper) to Nickel Silver Ferrules. The exchange rate is killing me and I can't afford using that expensive hardware whilst still learning to build rods "worthy" of NS ferrules.Any suggestions or suppliers will be appretiated. Werner. from FFer4trout@aol.com Tue Feb 4 07:43:53 1997 ; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 07:43:52 -0600 Subject: Re: Ferrules In a message dated 97-02-04 06:48:59 EST, you write: Subj: FerrulesDate: 97-02-04 06:48:59 ESTFrom: wliebbra@plessey.co.za (Werner Leibbrandt)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Can anybody out there help me with an alternative (cheaper) to Nickel Silver Ferrules. The exchange rate is killing me and I can't afford using that expensive hardware whilst still learning to build rods "worthy" of NS ferrules.Any suggestions or suppliers will be appretiated. Werner. Werner, There's Ni-plated brass ferrules on the market - cost about $1.50 - $2.50(USA). They can be ordered from Angler's Workshop, Jann's Netcraft, DaleClemems Company or other rod supply companies. Don B. PS - Great catalogs too: Angler's Workshop - (I can't find the addess my catolog is missing thebackcover) web site: http://www.anglersworkshop.com(360) 225- 9445FAX 225-8641or (800) 278-1069 (USA only FAX) Jann's NetcraftP.O. Box 89Maumee, OH 43537 USA(419) 868-8288FAX 868-8338(800) -netcraft (USA only) Clemens444 Schantz RoadAllentown, PA 18104 USA(610) 395-5119FAX 398-2580 from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Tue Feb 4 09:06:46 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA08553 for; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 09:06:45 -0600 Subject: Re: Rod Transport II Chris sayeth... Mike - in search of the perfect LazyMan's glue - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. Try Bill Dinasoar epoxy AKA Shell Epon. It is closeto it as you could ask for. Long working time, no heat cure,binding cord easily removed from blank - takes low heatto straighten. Sounds like my kinda stuff...Thanks! Now all you need is lazy man planing system. Hmmmm...how about: "Hey Chris, how about planing up my next rod for me!!!? " Oh well, it was worth a try... Mike - LazyBones - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Feb 4 09:12:02 1997 ; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 09:12:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Tapers III Gary,Your .013-.014-.015 sounds interesting-I've found that a reverseparabolagives me a very slow rod unless the slope is so steep that the rod weightissomewhat prohibitive. I've been eyeballing my graphs and haven't checkedtosee what .001/5" they are. I'll get back to you on that. I'm in the middle ofmy second nodeless 7 1/2' for a 5 with a swelled butt (straight linetaper).Keep those blades sharp,Hank. from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue Feb 4 09:32:30 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA11474 for; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 09:32:29 -0600 Subject: Re: Lathe question Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is Ok here is a question. If someone was to look into purchasing a lathe for purposes of rod building, what should I be looking for?Jon from rfairfie@cisco.com Tue Feb 4 10:40:51 1997 IAA24173 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 08:40:44 - 0800 Subject: Re: Ferrules Werner, there are plated brass ferrules available from some of the supplymailorder houses. One that I use is Janns-Netcraft. Their address is Jann's-Netcraftp.o.box 89Maumee, Ohio 43537 The ferrules run about $2.00 a pop. Good luck,Roger from santiago@ricochet.net Tue Feb 4 12:20:49 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA25653 for; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 12:20:39 -0600 Organization: Home Subject: cane for sale... if you are interested in purchasing cane at a very reasonable price, especially if you are a beginner, please contact Andy. the cane is 12' sticks in bundles of 20. andyr@bamboohw.comor206.223.0658 pst from jfoster@gte.net Tue Feb 4 13:06:05 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA28733 for; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:06:03 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id NAA08126 for; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:06:01 -0600 Subject: Re: Dry Fly Taper Where are you Bob Nunley and where is your homepage? Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Tue Feb 4 16:21:33 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA12718 for; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:21:32 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id QAA27295 for; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:21:26 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: Mail for LITTLBIT from SNEAL at RALVM8] (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AutoCF) via SMTP id QAA25512; Tue, 4 Feb1997 16:00:36 -0600 V2R3)with BSMTP id 1684; Tue, 04 Feb 97 17:01:02 EST Subject: Mail for LITTLBIT from SNEAL at RALVM8 *** Resending note of 02/04/97 15:50Message from:Nasser C. MomtaheniConsulting IT ArchitectAIX Consulting & Services(ISSC)Subject: Mail for LITTLBIT from SNEAL at RALVM8*===== from =====> 542-5445 -OR- (972)280-5445 >>> DO NOT REPLY TO THIS NOTE from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Feb 4 16:47:18 1997 QAA14222 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:47:09 -0600 Subject: Re: Another pearl of wisdom found to be clam spit Reed,Mr. who?Hank. :-) from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue Feb 4 16:53:24 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA14540 for; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:53:23 -0600 Subject: A question about Tapers III Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is Just wanted to know exactly what a nodeless rod is? I am a bit ignorant because the book I ordered by Wayne has taken two weeks longer to get here than normal. Jon from cbogart@ibm.net Tue Feb 4 17:45:25 1997 ; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 17:45:23 -0600 SAA09803 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 18:47:30 -0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Rod Transport II MikeWe could work on a beer for blanks deal - of courseyou may not like the blank after I had the beer. On Mon, 3 Feb 97 19:45:05 CST, Michael Biondo wrote: Chris sayeth... Mike - in search of the perfect LazyMan's glue - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. Try Bill Dinasoar epoxy AKA Shell Epon. It is closeto it as you could ask for. Long working time, no heat cure,binding cord easily removed from blank - takes low heatto straighten. Sounds like my kinda stuff...Thanks! Now all you need is lazy man planing system. Hmmmm...how about: "Hey Chris, how about planing up my next rod for me!!!? " Oh well, it was worth a try... Mike - LazyBones - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. Chris from fiveside@net-gate.com Tue Feb 4 18:20:19 1997 SAA19414 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 18:20:17 -0600 TAA02349 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 19:20:10 - Subject: Glues Hi Mike,You ask about nodeless glue. I use Titebond II for the nodeless splicesbecause it is waterproof tested and is SOOOO convenient right out of thesqueeze bottle. Epoxies or other formulated adhesives would makenodelessreally less practical because you need to make so many splices. But for mysplines I use my dinosaur epoxy which I know and love for over thirtyyears.I have one year of success with this combo. Chris Bogart has two or moreyears. Stay tuned. Where's your spirit of adventure? Bill from jsbond@inforamp.net Tue Feb 4 18:21:28 1997 SAA19485 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 18:21:27 -0600 Subject: Re: Old rod Greetings, Abercrombie and Fitch is (was?) a high end fishing and hunting departmentstore that was in New York and other large cities. They did not make rodsthemselves, rather they had existing makers produce a private label rodforthem. I think that many different people produced rods for them and youshould be able to match your rod against makers of the day. Good Luck JB At 22:58 31/01/97 -0500, you wrote:To all,I've been asked to refinish a 3 pc. 8' Abercrombie &Fitch YellowstoneSpecial.Does anyone know the maker? The rod has a metal cap and ring (allmetal),intermediate wraps, a 5" cork cigar. The model name and seller areengravedin the metal slide of the reelseat. The writing above the cork is gone.Thereis a swell an inch above the cork and the wraps appear to be rose-what'sleftof 'em.Any help will be appreciated.Thanks ,Hank Woolman. James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from rcurry@jlc.net Tue Feb 4 18:52:43 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA21406 for; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 18:52:39 -0600 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA04546 for Subject: Re: Old rod Hank,Just glancing through one book of catalogues, I see that prior to1920,A&F (Apoplexy and Fits) sold Divine rods (probably others, too), whereasin a later catalogue they were marketing Hawes, Hardy, and Cross. Andstill later, they were flogging Paynes.Go figure.Best regards,Reed James Bond wrote: Greetings, Abercrombie and Fitch is (was?) a high end fishing and huntingdepartmentstore that was in New York and other large cities. They did not make rodsthemselves, rather they had existing makers produce a private label rodforthem. I think that many different people produced rods for them and youshould be able to match your rod against makers of the day. Good Luck JB At 22:58 31/01/97 -0500, you wrote:To all,I've been asked to refinish a 3 pc. 8' Abercrombie &FitchYellowstoneSpecial.Does anyone know the maker? The rod has a metal cap and ring (allmetal),intermediate wraps, a 5" cork cigar. The model name and seller areengravedin the metal slide of the reelseat. The writing above the cork is gone.Thereis a swell an inch above the cork and the wraps appear to be rose-what's leftof 'em.Any help will be appreciated.Thanks ,Hank Woolman. James Bond, Toronto, CanadaFax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from angel@atlantis.neu.sgi.com Wed Feb 5 03:27:28 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA23911 for; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 03:27:25 -0600 10:27:23 +0100 (MET) (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI) KAA11219; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:27:22 +0100 10:27:21 +0100 Subject: I'm new in the list Hello I'm new in this email list and beginner in building fly fishing rods. Let me introduce my self. My name is Angel Contreras and I'm living inNeuchatel (Switzerland). I'm fishing all the rivers here around inSwitzerlandand in France near the border. I'm building a new rod from a G. Loomis7' #4 IMX blank but I definitely want to build bamboo rods. As a beginner I have some questions: - There is any body in Switzerland or France having experience in buildingbamboo rods?- There is any way to find Tonkin bamboo cane (or another good one) inSwitzerland, France or any other close European country?- Can you recommand a good book to me. Thanks for you help and any other information that will help me increatingflyfishing rods. Angel Contreras -- ___________________________________________________________________________ _________* (______________________Angel Contreras \ email: angel@neu.sgi.com Silicon Graphics Desktop Software Coordinator\ vmail: 56758 ch. des Rochettes 2European I/S \ tel: +41-32-8433600 CH-2016 Cortaillodo> fax: +41-32-8433909 Switzerland/| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~((()))~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~((()))~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Feb 5 08:04:36 1997 ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 08:04:34 -0600 Subject: Re: I'm new in the list from angel@atlantis.neu.sgi.com Wed Feb 5 09:40:01 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA08709 for; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 09:39:40 -0600 16:39:35 +0100 (MET) (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI) QAA02098; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 16:39:35 +0100 16:39:34 +0100 "Re: I'm new in the list" (Feb 5, 9:04am) Subject: Re: I'm new in the list On Feb 5, 9:04am, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote:Subject: Re: I'm new in the list Angel - If you read French,I would suggest you find a copy of "La Canne aMouche" by J. de Lespinay, Published by Edtions la Simarre in 1991. Itshouldhelp with European sources as well as building instructions.You should also subscribe to "The Planing Form", and get as many backissuesas you can.-----Tom Smithwick-- End of excerpt from TSmithwick@aol.com It seems that this publisher is difficult to find. Do you have any otherinformation that will help me to find this book (Address, phone, ....) Thanks for your help -- ___________________________________________________________________________ _________* (______________________Angel Contreras \ email: angel@neu.sgi.com Silicon Graphics Desktop Software Coordinator\ vmail: 56758 ch. des Rochettes 2European I/S \ tel: +41-32-8433600 CH-2016 Cortaillodo> fax: +41-32-8433909 Switzerland/| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~((()))~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~((()))~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Feb 5 11:06:37 1997 ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 11:06:35 -0600 Subject: Re: I'm new in the list Angel -- The only address listed is Joue-Les- Tours (France)You can also write to the author at:11 rue Parmentier,3700 Tours, France -- Good Luck from pmartino@fvcc.cc.mt.us Wed Feb 5 12:30:31 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA21151 for; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 12:30:28 -0600 LAA25788 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 11:30:02 -0700 Comments: Authenticated sender is Organization: Flathead Valley Community College Subject: Sharpening NotesPriority: normal To all: I found a nice FAC on blade sharpening. I am new to building cane rods, but thought that others might find the info useful. http://www.mcn.org/a/rhock/sharpen.htm -Paul (Kalispell, MT) from santiago@ricochet.net Wed Feb 5 14:14:10 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA28099 for; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 14:13:56 -0600 Organization: Home Subject: more on the cane for sale February 5, 1997 This is a form letter to all of you who wrote emails to me inquiringabout=myinventory of 12=B9 x 2=B2 tonkin cane. First, tonkin is a bit of a generic name. Several species originating from= Southeastern China are called tonkin. The species I have in stock isArundinaria amabilis, which is regarded by most as the premiere speciesfor= bamboo fly-rods. It is grown northwest of Canton in a twenty-five squarem=ileoval overlapping the provinces of Kwantung and Kwangsi. The poles (or cane, or sticks, to some) are all 12 feet in length. Thediameter at the base ranges from 1 1/2=B2 to 2 1/4=B2. I do not knowexact=ly howthis material compares with cane from other companies. from what Ihear, t=hesepoles have more slash marks, more burn marks, similar percentage ofgreen c=olorand less cracks or splits per pole than other distributors of this material==2E The slash marks are man made. There are a dozen theories as to why theyar=epresent. On the poles I have in stock, the slashes are usually on the bott=omthird of the pole. I have over 3000 poles in stock, I have inspected over =100poles and have found slash marks on almost every pole. I will attempt tore-inspect the poles on Thursday the 6th. These marks are obviouslylimiti=ngfactors for rod builders. A wide, deep mark eliminates a builders chancea=tbuilding a rod from that piece of cane. The burn marks are present on about 25% of the poles I have inspected. Ab=urnmark is made when the pole is straightened over a fire. As I understand,a= light burn mark is not so significant, a medium to dark mark will render aportion of a pole useless. About 20% of the poles I have inspected haveme=diumto dark burn marks. The green colour is present in about 30% of the poles I have seen. Persona=lly,I do not feel that this is such a problem because if you store these poles,=thegreen will slowly be replaced by the yellow/straw colour which is moredesirable. If you have a chance to place a green pole in the sun, it willyellow much more quickly (remember, the poles will probably split whiledry=ingin our dry climate, you may want to pre-split them manually). from what I viewed, cracked or split cane is not a problem in thesepoles,=theall seemed in excellent shape structurally. So, how many pieces are usable from a bundle of 20 poles? Variancesexistbecause of the natural diversity in bamboo and because different buildersh=avedifferent needs. One of the two buyers I have been working with is DaryllWhitehead. The poles I imported (again, from what we have seen, which isl=essthan 5%) are not sufficient for Daryll=B9s needs. An importantdistinction=is tobe made here. Daryll is a professional rod builder, he needs a perfect pol=e.These poles are perfect for people who do not sell their rods for severalhundred dollars. According to Daryll, the imperfections can be cutaround,=thepoles can be manipulated to result in a fine rod, especially for a beginnin=gbuilder. How many poles out of twenty are usable? Probably between 4-12 i=s myguess. I think it would be prudent for people who buy a bundle to post the=irpersonal findings on the rod builders list server. As I understand, these poles offer a better opportunity for beginningbuild=ersbecause the cost is not so high. I hear that the quality of poles coming f=romother suppliers is not high, probably not better than the poles I have. The prices are (20 poles per bundle):$5.00/pole 1-4 bundles (I cannot sell less than a bundle per =order)$4.75/pole 5-15 bundles$4.50/pole 16- 50 bundles$4.25/pole 51-100 bundles I do not know the cost of shipping to the various areas around thecountry.= Call your local trucking company for a rate quote. This originating zip co=deis 98032 (Kent, WA) the weight per bundle is about 100 lbs and the classis=70.If you are west of the Mississippi, Action Express is the cheapestshipper=Ihave found, their number is 800-456-3661, tell them you are billing theshipment to Bamboo Hardwoods and the discount is 40%. If you are able tog=ivethem a business address as the delivery address, you should be able tosave=afew bucks. Look in your Yellow Pages (Yellow Freight is usuallyexpensive)==2E I think that=B9s it. Contact me if you need more information. Thank you, Andy RoyerBamboo Hardwoodsandyr@bamboohw.com from Mikael.Marklund@orkestern.skelleftea.SE Wed Feb 5 15:45:53 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA04185 for; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 15:45:29 -0600 skeria.skelleftea.se (4.1/SMI-4.1) 1.21);5 Feb 97 22:07:01 MET DST 22:06:52 MET DST 5 Feb 97 22:06:45 MET DSTComments: Authenticated sender is Subject: Re: I'm new in the listPriority: normal Hello Angel!No problem finding bamboo here in Sweden. If you can=B4t find anything closer I can give you some adresses. Have a look at my homepage - shows how to build a rod - good for beginners I think.------------------------------ ----------------------------------Mikael Marklundmikael.marklund@orkestern.skelleftea.sehttp://www.skelleftea.se/utb/balder/personal/ba-mma/flyfish.htm from fiveside@net-gate.com Wed Feb 5 18:12:32 1997 SAA13688 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 18:12:29 -0600 TAA01410 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:12:20 - Subject: Tapers III Hi Gary,As I mentioned to Hank, there is software out there that allows you toinput taper dimensions and outputs the stress curve. Computers handlecuberoots pretty well. Should be easy to do for known Dickerson tapers. Maybesomeone already has.You ask about straight tapers. No experience here but some of Garrison'sare pretty straight.Maybe we should change the subject from Tapers III to BS ad infinitum.Bill from fiveside@net-gate.com Wed Feb 5 18:12:51 1997 SAA13693 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 18:12:42 -0600 TAA01436 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:12:23 - Subject: Graphs Hi Robert, Don and any other graphites,Here's an idea, very old but still may have value: plot your graphsmanually on translucent paper, all with same ordinate and abscissa scalesand then view them via a light table for precision comparisons.And then look at stress curves.This BS will probably end when spring comes. Bill from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Feb 5 19:54:30 1997 ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:54:28 -0600 Subject: Re: Old rod Reed,Thanks for your help. I guess I'll go figure.Take care,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Feb 5 20:04:15 1997 ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 20:04:14 -0600 Subject: Re: A question about Tapers III Jon,Nodeless means the nodes(where each year's new growth started) are cutoutof the culm ( I cut them out after I split out the strips I'm going touse- others cut the whole culm and then split). The pieces are then joinedwith a scarf joint-I use Elmer's professional carpenters wood glue-onlyforthe scarf joint.Hope this helps,Hank from wliebbra@plessey.co.za Thu Feb 6 07:53:59 1997 +0200 smap (V3.1) 6 Feb 97 15:55:35 GMT+0200 GMT+0200 Organization: PLESSEY TELLUMAT Subject: Video Priority: normal Hi Wayne,Sorry I don't have your personal e-mail so will have to do through the mailing list. Will you please send me price for your Rodbuilding video incl shipping to Cape Town South-Africa. Thank youWerner Leibbrandtwliebbra@plessey.co.za from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Thu Feb 6 09:22:17 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA28782 for; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 09:22:15 -0600 Subject: Re: A question about Tapers III Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is Thanks Hank,I just got Wayne's book today and was reading in statistics. Hehehe. I understand what you are talking about. I don't exactly know what a scarf joint is, but I will tray and ask around. Jon On 5 Feb 97 at 21:04, FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Jon,Nodeless means the nodes(where each year's new growth started) arecut outof the culm ( I cut them out after I split out the strips I'm going touse-others cut the whole culm and then split). The pieces are then joinedwith a scarf joint-I use Elmer's professional carpenters wood glue- onlyforthe scarf joint.Hope this helps,Hank from jboone@julian.uwo.ca Thu Feb 6 15:20:19 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA24195 for; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 15:20:14 -0600 Subject: Re: depth gauge My tool supplier sold me an inexpensive depth guage made inChina for which he guaranteed the accuracy. He then sold me a 45 degreepoint and sent me off to a toolmaker who ground it to 60 degrees fornothing. Works just fine. good luck, Jim. from rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us Thu Feb 6 17:55:15 1997 RAA04819 for ; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 17:55:09 -0600 Subject: Re: Tapers III At 07:12 PM 2/5/97 -0500, you wrote:Hi Gary,As I mentioned to Hank, there is software out there that allows you toinput taper dimensions and outputs the stress curve. Computers handlecuberoots pretty well. Should be easy to do for known Dickerson tapers. Maybesomeone already has.You ask about straight tapers. No experience here but some of Garrison'sare pretty straight.Maybe we should change the subject from Tapers III to BS ad infinitum.Bill Hi Bill,One time I asked John Bokstrom what the first tool a guy needed tostartcane rodmaking......His reply was"a shovel for all the manure"Ron B.> from plipton@sunvalley.net Thu Feb 6 18:17:14 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA05835 for; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 18:17:11 -0600 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with SMTP id AAA402 Organization: Sun Valley Rods Subject: Re: depth gauge Jim: With no disrespect to your friendly machinist, check the 60 degreepoint. The made in China points I bought were more like 58 degreepoints. It makes a difference setting the form. Did you also get areference block to set your gage? Phil Jim Boone wrote: My tool supplier sold me an inexpensive depth gauge made inChina for which he guaranteed the accuracy. He then sold me a 45 degreepoint and sent me off to a toolmaker who ground it to 60 degrees fornothing. Works just fine. good luck, Jim. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Philip Lipton PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208-726- 0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from rklmeb@tiac.net Thu Feb 6 19:23:55 1997 ; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 19:23:54 -0600 maildeliver0.tiac.net (8.8.0/8.8) with ESMTP id UAA31438 for zork.tiac.net (8.8.2/8.6.6.Beta9) with SMTP id UAA12667 for Subject: Re: Tapers III Ron,Can you help me get my name taken off the list for the time being? Myemailis getting pretty jammed. Thanks for your help.Richard K. Lodge from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Thu Feb 6 20:54:29 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA13147 for; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 20:54:16 -0600 Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:53:59 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: A question about Tapers III Imagine two pieces of wood 24" long and 1" thich (width dosn't matter)and you wanted to join them.If you measure 12" along the top of one piece and make mark and draw a diagonal line from the bottom of the very end of the piece of wood to this mark, you'll wind up with a 1:12 scarf which is prob the minimum ratio to work with. Do this on the other piece and glue the two together. If done correctly the joint is about as strong as a non scarfed section and is hard to detect.Wayne's book has a drawing of a scarfing jig in the rod repair section.When you use a jig, make sure all the strips are of even dimension, otherwise you'll get badly formed scarfs as the angle of attact while planing will differ between each strip.Simple. Tony Thanks Hank,I just got Wayne's book today and was reading in statistics. Hehehe. I understand what you are talking about. I don't exactly know what a scarf joint is, but I will tray and ask around. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jfoster@gte.net Thu Feb 6 22:45:27 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA17595 for; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:45:26 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id WAA23170 for; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:45:24 -0600 Subject: Web Page Allright gang The page update is complete.. well mostly The Taper archive has stress ( graphs ) curves with all the dimensions..if you see any errors let me know.any additions..anything needs to be added? deleted? jerry from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Feb 7 04:39:04 1997 ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 04:39:03 -0600 Subject: The Bamboo Thing Over the past couple of days I have recieved a few direct e-mails askingwhatI think of the earlier posts concerning the offer of bamboo for sale byAndyRoyer of Bamboo Hardwoods. So I thought that I would respond to the list.The question that the others asked - is this a good deal - This is oneofthose questionsthat only time will tell. But in my mind Daryll Whitehead has alreadyanswered it for me(US) . Because of the distance I have only talked toDaryllonce or twice but as with so many others - his reputation precedes him.Andwhen I read that the offered culm are not sufficient for Daryll's needs Idon't need to hear anything further.To be fair to Mr Royer - in what I've read he appears to be trying todescribe his product in a straight forward manner. And yes you can saythat Imay be prejusticed towards Harold and Eileen Demarest - I have knownthem foryears and our families are close.So any answer I give must look at the facts and not emotion.1) there is no mention of the depth of usable power fibers which isperhapsone of Daryll's objections.2) doing the mathematics of what according to Mr. Royer is usable - theTRUEcost per culm could be as high as $25/each.Perhaps what I would see as somewhat of an insult is the statementthatthe product IS good enough for the non professional user. Because Iconsiderbamboo rod making a hobby (That's why I'm left out of the lists at the endofthose articles) I would be in this group as well. Personally I am notwilling to potentially jeopardize the out come of the many hours of effortthat it takes to make a bamboo fly rod for what may or may not be ameagersavings. from the talks that I've heard Harold give about the sorting involvedto getthe quality that he requests and the amounts of rejects I would suspectthatthat is what Mr Royer has gotten. I'm told that the Chinese can be verykeenin business and perhaps he has fallen victim. Just A Word Of Caution Wayne PS - as always I hope that agree or disagree comments please from santiago@ricochet.net Fri Feb 7 10:28:30 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA23843 for; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:28:29 -0600 IAA12145 for ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:26:26 - Organization: Home Subject: Re: Web Page Jerry Foster wrote: Allright gang The page update is complete.. well mostly The Taper archive has stress ( graphs ) curves with all the dimensions..if you see any errors let me know.any additions..anything needs to be added? deleted? jerryhis is a beautiful page! from santiago@ricochet.net Fri Feb 7 10:28:51 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA23865 for; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:28:48 -0600 IAA12195 for ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:26:47 - Organization: Home Subject: Re: Web Page Jerry Foster wrote: Allright gang The page update is complete.. well mostly The Taper archive has stress ( graphs ) curves with all the dimensions..if you see any errors let me know.any additions..anything needs to be added? deleted? jerrythis is a beautiful page! leo from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Fri Feb 7 12:58:13 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA05119 for; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 12:58:11 -0600 Subject: Stress Curves. Priority: normal Comments: Authenticated sender is Could someone please explain the concept of a stress curve. I am curious, and do not know what i am looking at when I see one. Jon from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Fri Feb 7 12:58:17 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA05127 for; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 12:58:15 -0600 Subject: Re: Web Page Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is What's the address? Allright gang The page update is complete.. well mostly The Taper archive has stress ( graphs ) curves with all the dimensions..if you see any errors let me know.any additions..anything needs to be added? deleted? jerry from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Fri Feb 7 13:37:12 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA07743 for; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:37:08 -0600 (WST) Sat, 8 Feb 1997 01:22:12 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: The Bamboo Thing I'd like to comment further on the point Wayne has made.Wayne says it's a hoby to be enjoyed and the cost of each culm is as high as $25. Even if it's less, what are you saving?I used to be a wooden dingy builder, I still build the occasional one and it's always the case that the cost of the hull is only about 25% or less than the overall cost but accounts for almost 100% of the integrity of the boat itself. As far as I can see, cane rods are the same. It takes a lot of effort to make a decent rod and saving a few bucks at the wrong end of the equasion dosn't make sence.As a final comment, I've been offered various cane to try, and who knows, I may even come across something that works but I'm paying a *lot* more than $25 per culm over here and considering the effort involved, so what, I enjoy what I'm doing and like what I'm making. Tony Over the past couple of days I have recieved a few direct e-mailsasking whatI think of the earlier posts concerning the offer of bamboo for sale byAndyRoyer of Bamboo Hardwoods. So I thought that I would respond to thelist.The question that the others asked - is this a good deal - This is oneofthose questionsthat only time will tell. But in my mind Daryll Whitehead has alreadyanswered it for me(US) . Because of the distance I have only talked toDaryllonce or twice but as with so many others - his reputation precedeshim. Andwhen I read that the offered culm are not sufficient for Daryll's needs Idon't need to hear anything further.To be fair to Mr Royer - in what I've read he appears to be trying todescribe his product in a straight forward manner. And yes you can saythat Imay be prejusticed towards Harold and Eileen Demarest - I have knownthem foryears and our families are close. /**** Lots sniped out *****/So any answer I give must look at the facts and not emotion.1) there is no mention of the depth of usable power fibers which isperhapsone of Daryll's objections.2) doing the mathematics of what according to Mr. Royer is usable - theTRUEcost per culm could be as high as $25/each.Perhaps what I would see as somewhat of an insult is the statementthatthe product IS good enough for the non professional user. Because Iconsiderbamboo rod making a hobby (That's why I'm left out of the lists at theend ofthose articles) I would be in this group as well. Personally I am notwilling to potentially jeopardize the out come of the many hours ofeffortthat it takes to make a bamboo fly rod for what may or may not be ameagersavings. from the talks that I've heard Harold give about the sorting involvedto getthe quality that he requests and the amounts of rejects I would suspectthatthat is what Mr Royer has gotten. I'm told that the Chinese can be verykeenin business and perhaps he has fallen victim. Just A Word Of Caution Wayne PS - as always I hope that agree or disagree comments please /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from davida@grove.ufl.EDU Fri Feb 7 14:04:30 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA09457 for; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:04:23 -0600 mail1.grove.ufl.EDU (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA17993 for (8.8.5/8.7.3/3) with SMTP id PAA14056 for Subject: finishes? Trying to find out the advantages of spar varnish over tung oil or viceversa? What is the best finish for bamboo rods? Please explain the prosand cons. Thanks, DADavid Allertondavida@grove.ufl.edu from rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us Fri Feb 7 15:40:04 1997 PAA14758 for ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:40:02 -0600 Subject: Re: The Bamboo Thing At 05:38 AM 2/7/97 -0500, you wrote:Over the past couple of days I have recieved a few direct e-mails askingwhatI think of the earlier posts concerning the offer of bamboo for sale byAndyRoyer of Bamboo Hardwoods. So I thought that I would respond to the list.The question that the others asked - is this a good deal - This is oneofthose questionsthat only time will tell. But in my mind Daryll Whitehead has alreadyanswered it for me(US) . Because of the distance I have only talked toDaryllonce or twice but as with so many others - his reputation precedes him.Andwhen I read that the offered culm are not sufficient for Daryll's needs Idon't need to hear anything further.To be fair to Mr Royer - in what I've read he appears to be trying todescribe his product in a straight forward manner. And yes you can saythat Imay be prejusticed towards Harold and Eileen Demarest - I have knownthem foryears and our families are close.So any answer I give must look at the facts and not emotion.1) there is no mention of the depth of usable power fibers which isperhapsone of Daryll's objections.2) doing the mathematics of what according to Mr. Royer is usable - theTRUEcost per culm could be as high as $25/each.Perhaps what I would see as somewhat of an insult is the statementthatthe product IS good enough for the non professional user. Because Iconsiderbamboo rod making a hobby (That's why I'm left out of the lists at the endofthose articles) I would be in this group as well. Personally I am notwilling to potentially jeopardize the out come of the many hours ofeffortthat it takes to make a bamboo fly rod for what may or may not be ameagersavings. from the talks that I've heard Harold give about the sorting involvedto getthe quality that he requests and the amounts of rejects I would suspectthatthat is what Mr Royer has gotten. I'm told that the Chinese can be verykeenin business and perhaps he has fallen victim. Just A Word Of Caution Wayne PS - as always I hope that agree or disagree comments please To Whom It May Concern,I have been wanting to comment on the "Cane Concerns" that have beenonthe list the last few days but hesitated. I am glad Wayne took the lead, aresponse has been needed.In the Spring of 1996 prior to the Corbett Lake Meeting in BC Mr. Royercontacted me and asked if I would consider brokering some Tonkin cane. Ilike money so I listened to what he had to say. He sent some samples tothemeeting and all thought it it looked pretty good. I usually trust my gut reactions when it comes to business deals and Ihad a strange feeling about this one. In short it sounded too good to betrue!!! In my experience if it sounds that way it usually is. For avariety of reasons I chose to pass on Mr. Royer's offer. I am glad I did.I know that Mr. Demarest and Mr. Calcettera both offer good products ata fair price. After that it's Buyer Beware. Ron Barch/Planing Form Newsletter from mrj@seanet.com Fri Feb 7 15:51:10 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA15345 for; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:51:09 -0600 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA02056 for Subject: dimensions Organization: Seanet I have just taken my latest (No.5) rod out of the wrapping thread and Inoticed that when I measured it across the flats, it measured up to .005over the dimensions of the individual splines. Now I "knocked" down theinside edge, and as this area in particular is going under a ferrule Imade sure of the dimentions when I planed the strip. Is this normal? Ihave talked to two rodmakers one of whom sells his rods, and they bothsaid that yes, this is normal, or at least quite common. I was figuringthat my problem may have been because I am fairly new to this and mytolerances are not as good as they could be. Other than the obviousquestion of "is this a normal occurrence", I am now wondering that ifthis is normal, it sort of puts a chink in the method of taking afinished rod and working backwards to get the spline dimensions forbuilding. -- Martin Jensen from santiago@ricochet.net Fri Feb 7 16:53:31 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA18392 for; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:53:30 -0600 OAA18800 for ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:50:56 - Organization: Home Subject: Re: The Bamboo Thing...another perspective WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Over the past couple of days I have recieved a few direct e-mails askingwhatI think of the earlier posts concerning the offer of bamboo for sale byAndyRoyer of Bamboo Hardwoods. So I thought that I would respond to thelist.The question that the others asked - is this a good deal - This isone ofthose questionsthat only time will tell. But in my mind Daryll Whitehead has alreadyanswered it for me(US) . Because of the distance I have only talked toDaryllonce or twice but as with so many others - his reputation precedes him.Andwhen I read that the offered culm are not sufficient for Daryll's needs Idon't need to hear anything further.To be fair to Mr Royer - in what I've read he appears to be trying todescribe his product in a straight forward manner. And yes you can saythat Imay be prejusticed towards Harold and Eileen Demarest - I have knownthem foryears and our families are close.So any answer I give must look at the facts and not emotion.1) there is no mention of the depth of usable power fibers which isperhapsone of Daryll's objections.2) doing the mathematics of what according to Mr. Royer is usable - theTRUEcost per culm could be as high as $25/each.Perhaps what I would see as somewhat of an insult is the statementthatthe product IS good enough for the non professional user. Because Iconsiderbamboo rod making a hobby (That's why I'm left out of the lists at theend ofthose articles) I would be in this group as well. Personally I am notwilling to potentially jeopardize the out come of the many hours ofeffortthat it takes to make a bamboo fly rod for what may or may not be ameagersavings. from the talks that I've heard Harold give about the sorting involvedto getthe quality that he requests and the amounts of rejects I would suspectthatthat is what Mr Royer has gotten. I'm told that the Chinese can be verykeenin business and perhaps he has fallen victim. Just A Word Of Caution Wayne PS - as always I hope that agree or disagree comments please your word of caution is well taken. i posted the info and do not have any connection to the cane. i do not get a kickback or have a financial advantage, but i did purchase a bundle because i am a novice and with the bundle i should be able to produce a few very nice rods, but more importantly i will be able to practice flamming, heat treating, learning to plane, grind, sand, fit, steam, straighten, and anything else that will come my way for very little money. when i am more confident with my skills, i will choose only the best cane because my rods will be worth it. until then, hacking on this stuff is fine and even my wife does not mind the "practice" expense. just another perspective, leo from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Feb 7 22:33:42 1997 ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 22:33:41 -0600 Subject: Re: Titebond II In a message dated 97-02-03 21:46:41 EST, you write: Still here, but in a different persona. I got laid off from my jobwith Chevron, but immediately found a new job. Dec 31 wasmy last day with Chevron, and Jan. 2 was my first day withthe new company. I'm getting paid more, and Chevron gaveme 2 weeks of full pay for every year I worked for them as aseverance package. That was a whole half a years pay. So, I can't complain. Anybody know of any good investments? The new company doesn't have an internet connection like Chevron did, so I started an account with AOL so I could stay in touch with you guys. I still use Titebond II, and haven't had any problems. I sometimes use Excel glue also. They both have been holding upwell, no failures. I think Titebond II is an acceptable glue aslong as you are careful about overheating it when you try tostraighten your blank. Franklin says it's good up to boilingtemp (212 F) and it's possible to exceed that temp with aheat gun during straightening. It doesn't have a very longworking time, you better have your splines bound andstraightened 15 minutes after you spread the glue on. Ihave seen Titebond II Extend in a wood workers catalogthat is supposed to have twice the working time, but Ihaven't tried it yet. Excel is harder to use, but has a 4hour working time. If your blank isn't straight by then, itnever will be. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Feb 7 23:21:14 1997 ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 23:21:12 -0600 Subject: Jerry Fosters Stress Curves Good job Jerry!!I looked at quite a few of the stress curvesand in every case they matched the curvesthat I generated with my Excel spreadsheet. To those unfamiliar with stress curves - Look at the Cattanach 7' 0" #4 DT stress curve. This rod is the nicestcasting rod I have come across so far.It has a fast action, throws a tight loop,but can turn over a 12 ft. leader with barely a foot of flyline past the tip top. Contrast that with any of the Garrison stress curves. Garrison rods are very slow. Some people like the way they cast. I do not. To me it feels like I can start the back cast, get a cup of coffee, drink half of it, then start the forward cast. While you are there takea look at the Paul Young rods. They can casta lot of line if you can adapt to the timing, butthe timing is complex. To me it feels like the rodis jointed and you have to cast in a slow fast slow manner - if that makes any sense. In my opinion stress curves are the only way tounderstand what type of action a taper will havebefore you actually make the rod. Darryl Hayashida from GLohkamp@aol.com Sat Feb 8 01:36:34 1997 ; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 01:36:33 -0600 Subject: Tapers Bill Thanks for the information l would like to know more about these pcprograms , l know that hex rod and rod maker won't work the taperbackwardsyou got to know what the curve is to start with. l know that the curvesthatl made working the math backwards produced curves that were not usable.Theywere up and down on my chart not a nice curve at all. Garrison tapers are pretty straight but not an even reduction of taper atone 5 in station you may have a .010 difference the next .007 the next .014.008 l know that this is because Garrison used stress curves to plot histapers . l've found that the garrison tapers to make fine rods but they are alittle to slow for me . What l've been doing is to start with a butt dia.and evenly reduce the taper by .014 per 5in station . lf needed l'll beef upthe tip to .065 -.070 depending on the line weight, some adjustment maybeneeded at the ferrule sation too but l base the taper on this .l like the results l think it could be possible to carry this out to 5ft sections and then cutthem back to make many different rod lenghts and weights depending onwhereyou cut the sections.Tell me what you think guys is there something wrong with this ? Thanks Gary from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Feb 8 07:08:48 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA22327 for; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 07:08:46 -0600 Subject: Re: dimensions Martin - It's normal and expected and the reason that taking a taper from a finishedrod will likley yield much different results than expected. There are a couple of things that you can do - -under shoot the taper to adjust for glue etc.- temper the rod @ final plane stage - this yields about "right on"measurements.The best is to ignore the whole business of final dimensions and cast whatyou got. If you like it, make another the same taper.The essence of rod making is repeatability - If each rod you build has thesame "overage" so what - adjust the taper accordingly and forget theoverage. I get measurements about right one -/+ 0.001>2 only if I temper afterfinalplanning. Expect that shrinkage of cane is offsetting addition of glue. Sothat's what I do now. best, Don At 13:53 07/02/97 -0800, you wrote:I have just taken my latest (No.5) rod out of the wrapping thread and Inoticed that when I measured it across the flats, it measured up to .005over the dimensions of the individual splines. Now I "knocked" down theinside edge, and as this area in particular is going under a ferrule Imade sure of the dimentions when I planed the strip. Is this normal? Ihave talked to two rodmakers one of whom sells his rods, and they bothsaid that yes, this is normal, or at least quite common. I was figuringthat my problem may have been because I am fairly new to this and mytolerances are not as good as they could be. Other than the obviousquestion of "is this a normal occurrence", I am now wondering that ifthis is normal, it sort of puts a chink in the method of taking afinished rod and working backwards to get the spline dimensions forbuilding. -- Martin Jensen from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Feb 8 08:14:38 1997 ; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 08:14:37 -0600 Subject: Re: Tapers III Ron,Amen to Bokstrom.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Feb 8 08:14:42 1997 ; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 08:14:40 -0600 Subject: Re: The Bamboo Thing Wayne,Your reaction is the same as mine.Hank. from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Feb 8 09:34:44 1997 ; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 09:34:43 -0600 Subject: Re: Jerry Fosters Stress Curves Darryl - Nice to hear from you. I also was wondering what happened. Youwrote: from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Sat Feb 8 10:49:18 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA27651 for; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 10:49:17 -0600 Subject: Burner Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is This may or may not be answerable, but what type of alcohol burner does anyone use for wraps? Any methods of application would be appreciated for both getting rid of the fuzzies associated with wraps, and the epoxies. Jon from mrj@seanet.com Sat Feb 8 11:50:13 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA29292 for; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 11:50:12 -0600 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA20212 for Subject: Re: dimensions Organization: Seanet Hi Don,I seem to be having fairly consistent results with this occurrence (Ihate to call it a problem (G)) so I will try "undershooting the tapernext rod. I am heat treating the bamboo before I split it and no heattreating is done afterwards. I will stick with this practice right nowbut may experiment with tempering at a later stage in the future. BTW this rod that I am making is named "Don Andersons' Personalfavorite". This is the original taper as I like slow rods.I got thetaper from the Corbett Lake group three years ago. Martin - It's normal and expected and the reason that taking a taper from afinishedrod will likley yield much different results than expected. There are a couple of things that you can do - -under shoot the taper to adjust for glue etc.- temper the rod @ final plane stage - this yields about "right on"measurements.The best is to ignore the whole business of final dimensions and castwhatyou got. If you like it, make another the same taper.The essence of rod making is repeatability - If each rod you build has thesame "overage" so what - adjust the taper accordingly and forget theoverage. I get measurements about right one -/+ 0.001>2 only if I temper afterfinalplanning. Expect that shrinkage of cane is offsetting addition of glue. Sothat's what I do now. best, Don At 13:53 07/02/97 -0800, you wrote:I have just taken my latest (No.5) rod out of the wrapping thread and Inoticed that when I measured it across the flats, it measured up to .005over the dimensions of the individual splines. Now I "knocked" down theinside edge, and as this area in particular is going under a ferrule Imade sure of the dimentions when I planed the strip. Is this normal? Ihave talked to two rodmakers one of whom sells his rods, and they bothsaid that yes, this is normal, or at least quite common. I was figuringthat my problem may have been because I am fairly new to this and mytolerances are not as good as they could be. Other than the obviousquestion of "is this a normal occurrence", I am now wondering that ifthis is normal, it sort of puts a chink in the method of taking afinished rod and working backwards to get the spline dimensions forbuilding. -- Martin Jensen -- Martin Jensen from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Feb 8 19:26:00 1997 ; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 19:25:59 -0600 Subject: Re: Burner Jon -This answer may not be what you are looking but here goes anyway.Therecan be several problems in using an alcohol lamp in trying to singe the'fuzzies' - The first thought is to try to eliminate the in the first place.I at one time used thread tensioners from a sewing machine to tension thewrapping thread. By tensioning just the spool of thread instead can make abig difference in reducing 'ol fuzzy one'.The rpoblem I had with trying to singe these pesky out bounds ran thegambit - from leaving soot on the thread to burn throughs a couple oftimes.So a different method was called for. Now I just ignore the fuzzies until Ihave two coats of varnish on - Then using a surgeons scalpel I shear themoff- the varnish coats and lock them in place so that the shearing can be doneeasily. There are several sources for scapel handles and blades - my wife is anurse which helped at first - now I get them from Appearence Products - I see them at the shows and make a yearly purchase. I get the smallhandleand the #11 blade (non sterile) which is the straight cut. I also use the scapel to scrape away the excess of the varnish that is onthe shaft after the two coats are dry - this overlay on the shaft is neededto hold the varnish on the wraps - without the over run you get varnishstarved wraps at the very end - this is caused by the sag of the varnishhasa tendency to draw the varnish toward the center of the wrap after it isapplied.Appearance Products215 - 628 - 0939Jim & Patti BorisNow you may be temped to us an xacto knife but the blades aren't assharpas a scapel blade. from 73251.1513@CompuServe.COM Sat Feb 8 21:22:39 1997 VAA18451 for ; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 21:22:38 -0600 Subject: Dimensions I have also had the problem of rod dimensions after gluing exceeding theprodicted dimension based on the planing of individual splines. In Garrisons's book, he recommends removing .003 from the inside apex asthefinal step in planing although he doesn't explain why. Could this be toovercome the problem we are discussing? Regards,Karl Almquist from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Feb 8 21:40:47 1997 ; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 21:40:45 -0600 Subject: A Sad Note know of or have met Steve Southard, who owns The Fly Factory - LastweekSteve's brother Brian passed away. I am passing word along so that thosewanting to might send Steve a note on his loss. I'm sure he'd appreciate it. The Fly FactoryP. O. Box 709Grayling, MI 49738 or 102130.461@CompuServe.COM (Steve W. Southard) ThanksWayne from mrj@seanet.com Sun Feb 9 00:45:11 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA06408 for; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 00:45:09 -0600 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA02300 for Subject: Re: Dimensions KARL W. ALMQUIST wrote: I have also had the problem of rod dimensions after gluing exceeding theprodicted dimension based on the planing of individual splines. In Garrisons's book, he recommends removing .003 from the inside apexas thefinal step in planing although he doesn't explain why. Could this be toovercome the problem we are discussing? Regards,Karl AlmquistI did take off the apex by at least .003, probably more. I think thatmaybe the thickness of the glue has something to do with it. Also, Iimagine that my dimensions are not as close as they will be when I get"good" at this.-- Martin Jensen from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Feb 9 10:48:35 1997 ; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 10:48:34 -0600 Subject: Grayrock Well it's another 'Gray' day here in Michigan and cabin fever isstarting to take it's toll. This next weekend is the Flint Muddler Minnowsshow over at Swartz Creek and that will bring the group together for afirstplanning secession of TTBBQ 97. The subject has been put aside for awhilebut I have talked to several at the different shows and over the phone. Andperhaps it might be worthy of trying to get a plan together.A review - Offically the activities are scheduled for the 20 & 21 ofJune. But for the more addicted - the 14 is when some of us will bearriving.If the weather co operates it will be a time of fishing on the differentstreams in the area. If the weather doesn't co operate the business atSpike's will be good. As a side note the 14th is a special day for us anyway- That's the day Lyndi came to our family. At one point there was the idea of a work secession for binders andovenshells - The binders for those not coming are in the works - the plates arecut, the arms are made and I am working on pulleys this week with hopestomove them out by next weekend. Several oven shells have been shippedwith anew batch due out this week.Another thought that Doug Hall (our Atlanta representative) and I aregoing to try is to video tape the different demos and such with the idea ofbeing able to provide copies for those not able to come and to haveavailable A call for volunteers - anyone wishing to share techniques - tools -theory - or whatever.Mentioned ideas have been: nodeless constructionsharpening equipment - Sharp 'O' Rama - as Chris put ithex cork checkspowered tools - Al and GeorgeBill WaaraHarold and Eileen Demarestrod design programscreating a resourse listtaper sharelist of web sites And if there are any ideas of how the 'Sporting Flies' contest can behandicapped any further - your input would be appreciated - as in the pastyears the rules will be changes just prior to or during the event. A name? Aprons to commemorate the event? Focus or direction???? from m.boretti@agonet.it Sun Feb 9 11:36:04 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA20131 for; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 11:36:00 -0600 mago.agonet.it (8.8.0/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA24075 for; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 18:39:13 +0100 Subject: Information Dear subscriber I seek other European subscribers, please, all European orItalian,contoct me for exchange information about bambbo Fly Rods.Thanks, Marco Boretti. from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Sun Feb 9 12:54:54 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA22476 for; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 12:54:52 -0600 Subject: Re: Jerry Fosters Stress Curves Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is Ok, I understand the concept of a stress curve, but how do you read it? Jon from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Sun Feb 9 12:56:03 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA22507 for; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 12:56:02 -0600 Subject: Guides? Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is I received bronzed guides for a Wes Jordan rod I restored. When I sanded the feet down silver was exposed. Any comments or finishing techniques? Does silk always go transparent? Jon from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Feb 10 01:50:38 1997 ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 01:50:36 -0600 Subject: Re: Jerry Fosters Stress Curves In a message dated 97-02-09 13:58:50 EST, you write: Basically the higher up the curve goes the more stressand the more the bamboo bends. Garrison liked to use200,000 ounces per square inch for an upper limit at thetip although the book did say he would go to 220,000 forthe lighter, shorter rods. Garrison also went down to the 130,000 to 150,000 range at the handle. I feel that thisis the range the bamboo bends very little and bring that point up to around where the stripper guide would go fora faster rod. If I want an even faster rod, the 140,000 pointmight go as far up as the mid point of the rod. If you likea stiff tip, don't let the stresses go higher than 180,000to 190,000. If you look at the Paul Young rods, the stressesgo up at the 10 to 15 inch mark, then down at the midpoint of the rod, then back up again just before the handle.Interpeting this, I would conclude that the tip third is flexible,the mid third is stiff, and the rod is flexible again just in frontof the handle. What this all boils down to though, is you have to graph asmany rods as you can and actually cast them. If you dothis with enough rods you will begin to get a good ideaof what kind of stress curve produces the kind of rod youlike. And what I like in a rod may be entirely different fromwhat you like in a rod. Darryl Hayashida from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Mon Feb 10 10:18:24 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA18088 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:18:22 -0600 Subject: Paul ?????? Paul, You sent me a private email message that I would like to reply to BUT Ilostall of my email addresses when this thing crashed couple of days ago. Youremail address is not attached to your message. Please send me youraddress. regards, Don Andersen from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Mon Feb 10 10:40:43 1997 dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA23357; Mon, 10Feb 1997 08:34:24 -0800 Organization: Fred Bohls - Financial Services Rod Makers List Serve Subject: Charlie Fox -- TO ALL: A sad note --- Charlie Fox died early today. He had deterioated to apoint where this was a blessing. The world will miss him. I'm sure that the Cumberland Valley Chapter of Trout Unlimited will beco- ordinating some effort on his behalf. I'll try and keep you posted. Feel free to contact me with questions and I'll try to respond. FRED~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011-9698Office: (717) 732-2448Fax: (717) 732- 2414e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Mon Feb 10 12:02:11 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA25223 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:02:10 -0600 Subject: Re: Grayrock Wayne, talking about this year's RODMAKERS gathering seez... A name? Aprons to commemorate the event? Focus or direction???? We were originally thinking about a t-shirt to commemorate the eventuntil Wayne came up with the idea of a shop apron. I think that's agreat idea. A shop apron is something I know I would get a whole lot more use out of than a t-shirt. What do others think... As for the official name for the gathering, some of you may rememberthat we were collecting suggestions of names for this years eventshortly after we returned from last year's event. I will include atthe end of this the suggestions we have so far. If anyone else hasa good idea for a name please send it in. Mike - A PARTY by any other name... - BiondoSt. Louis, MO =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= The Greater Grayrock Bamboo Rod, Bent Hackle, Balded Bambi,and Grain Futures Appreciation Society Wayne Cattanach RODMAKERS Encounter I Mike Biondo RODMAKERS raising CANE Jerry Ballard Brotherhood (of) All Makers (of) Bamboo Originals Outing (BAMBOO I)Jack Bewley Bamboo-zers I Tim Lane Woodstock (well, ok then... "Canestock") Tim Lane Bamboo Boogie Victor Edwards Rod Rendezous Victor Edwards Arundinaria Assembly Victor Edwards Split Cane Stop (or Station) Victor Edwards Makers Meet Victor Edwards Spare-the-Rod or A Good Caning Bruce Conner Plain Cane Planers James Bond. Bamboo Rendezvous CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL The Caneards Convention Gary LandryAccording to the dictionary the suffix -ard means - One that habitually orexcessively is in a specified condition or performs a specified action. Cane Rod Aficionados, Makers, and Purveyors Social Reed Curry(CRAMPS for short. This would go well with the results of eating toomuch at the Barbeque. Great food, Victor!) The Bamboo Rodmakers Gathering at Grayling Jonathan Clarke B.G.'s aka BeeGees(BamBoo Grayling Gathering (BB-GG's) Tim Lane The Planing Forum Tom Ausfeld MEET YOUR MAKER Olaf Borge from whensel@ix.netcom.com Mon Feb 10 13:58:12 1997 ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:57:39 -0800 Subject: BIGINERS FIRST ROD DEAR ALL MY FRIENDS AND HELPERS, THIS WEEKEND I FINISHED MY FIRST ROD AND TODAY I AM BUILDING THE VARNAISHING SYSTEM. I TOOK INTO A FLY SHOP WHERE A NUMBER OF THEGUYS WHO WORK THERE FISH BAMBOO AND BEILIEVE IT OR NOT THEY REALLYLIKED IT. UPDATE ON THE PERSOANL STORM. THE WIFE AND I WENT TO SOME PROFESSIONAL HELP AND SHE IS ALSO WORKING ALONE IN THESE MATTERS. THIS WEEKEND INDICATED TO ME WE ARE STARTING TO REBUILD THE MARRIGE. IHAVE GREAT HOPE IN THE THIS AREA.I SOLD THE BIG SCREEN AND A NUMBER OF OTHER ITEMS SO GUESS I AM STILL ON LINE . REGARDS TO ALL from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Mon Feb 10 16:21:10 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA11084 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 16:21:08 -0600 with BSMTP id 1331; Mon, 10 Feb 97 17:19:36 EST MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 9568; Mon, 10 Feb1997 17:19:36 -0500Subject: final form fix Would appreciate any comments on the following workplan, especially from those of you with more exp. in workingwith metal. I received two forms from Frank, who charged a really nominal fee,and they are just as he described. The basic problem is that whenthe holes were drilled for the adjustment screws, the two sides ofthe forms were not aligned (i.e., the beast isn't anywhere nearflat). With such a mindless error in the drilling, Frank must havebeen flamed at least. I would have been. These forms are designed with two adjustment screws and a 1/4" dowelat each of 17 stations (17 x 3 holes). I checked the width of eachside and they are close, about +/_ .0005. So no difference there.Once the new holes are drilled, the bottom edge of each chamfer shouldbe aligned, and form's top and bottom flat. So here is the planned fix. 1. Leave the push screws as is w/out redrilling and call thisside B. 2. Ignor the dowel holes running thru each side as these will notbe used. 3. Now here is the kicker. In order to avoid alot of unusable holesand redrilling of new holes, redesign the system for shoulder boltshence no need for dowels. Drill holes for shoulder bolts from side A (L=1.5", D=3/8") andeither a) use the current holes for the original 'pull screws' andredrill these holes, or b) forget the old holes and drill completelynew ones. The first option is a bit less work, a bit easier, andwill look a bit better. However, with the first option there arerisks because the old hole will now be enlarged leaving a max.of 1/16 between this and the ajoining and now obsolete dowel pin hole. 4. Using a "Dowel It" jig and hand drill:1st pass--drill 3/16 (or skip if old holes are used)2nd pass--drill 1/43rd pass--hand tap the entire hole at 5/16 18.4th pass--drill for shoulder fit with 23/64 to 1"+ depth5th pass--hand ream to 3/8 to 1"+ depthWill the basic design work?Any suggested course corrections? Bob. from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Mon Feb 10 16:56:58 1997 QAA14678 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 16:56:55-0600 ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Organization: Fred Bohls - Financial Services Fly Fishing List Serve ,Federation of Fly Fishers Subject: Charlie Fox Update -- TO ALL: Arrangements have been set ... Viewing is to be from 12:00 to 1:30 onThursday, Feb. 13 at the Church of the Bretheren on Carlisle, PA. Services to follow at 1:30. The family requests that -- in place of flowers, contributions be madeto the Cumberland Valley Chapter of Trout Unlimited. Address either P.O. Box 520, Carlisle, PA 17013 or to me as I am the Treasurer. OurBoard, in consultation with the family, will decide on an appropriateuse. Again, if there are any questions, please fel free to drop a note. FRED~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011-9698Office: (717) 732-2448Fax: (717) 732- 2414e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Feb 10 18:09:56 1997 SAA20545 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:09:55-0600 TAA29041 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:09:17 Subject: Tapers Hi Gary,You ask about the PC program that generates stress curves. It's calledFLYROD and was marketed by Len Histand, 40 Davis Rd.Doylestown PA.18901,215-348-5209. This software was offered at one time in the PlaningForm. Itdeals with 6, 5 and 4 sided tapers and I use it a lot.Did I read you right? Is there a taper program called "rod maker"? I'dlike to know more about that.Yes it seems that Garrison tapers could perhaps be linear- segmented anditsounds like your reducing tapers to 5 inch linear segments should work outOK. Could you give more details about "carrying this out to 5 ft sections---many different rod lengths--"? Think spring, Bill from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Feb 10 18:10:02 1997 SAA20564 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:10:01-0600 TAA29037 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:09:15 Subject: Tapers III Hi Ron,Maybe some are out there fishing, and we here are still shooting in thegeneral direction of a few pheasants, but by and large at this time of yearBS prevails so let's make the most of it. Bill from cbogart@ibm.net Mon Feb 10 18:18:30 1997 ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:18:28 -0600 TAA05423 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:21:16-0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Grayrock Mike The Trout Bum BBQ gives the Tee Shirt - since weplan on the Friday Pizza bash with Brew - why not official beersteins?! practical and usable. Chris from cbogart@ibm.net Mon Feb 10 18:44:50 1997 ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:44:49 -0600 TAA05705 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:47:43-0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Grayrock Mike Let me add yet another suggested name: Hex-A-Mania Got to remember this is also time of the world famous hex hatch. Chris from jfoster@gte.net Mon Feb 10 18:53:19 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA23265 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:53:17 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id SAA28209 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:52:47 -0600 Subject: Re: Grayrock Chris I'll drink to that! from jfoster@gte.net Mon Feb 10 18:57:39 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA23523 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:57:37 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id SAA28788 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:57:07 -0600 Subject: Stress Curves Darryl Nice to have you back!! Would you mind if i include that statement somewhere on the page..Seemsthe most straight forward explanation of the curves i've read.. Jerry from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Mon Feb 10 18:59:47 1997 ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:59:45 -0600 2.0/2.12um) id QAA000.71; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 16:50:31 -0500 Subject: Re: final form fix Hi Bob: I agree it's unthinkable to not first verify the set up and alignment of theforms before performing any machining operations on them. But whateverdirection you choose to pursue to remedy this unfortunate situation, may I suggest youdispense with the doweling jig and hand drill method? Instead, if the $$$ are available, consult with a capable (and trustworthy) machinist that has a vertical mill, i.e., Bridgeport. He can set up andclamp the forms on the mill table before redrilling and tapping, providing therigidity and accuracy needed to hold them and machine them in their proper alignment. No matter which method you end up using, once the machining is done, besure to recheck the forms for tolerances and alignment as machining some coldrolled steels tends to relieve internal stresses which may cause minor distortions. Hope my 2/cents worth helps. Rich Brown from crocm@flinet.com Mon Feb 10 19:40:52 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA26122 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:40:50 -0600 shell.flinet.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA25342 for Subject: Silk Lines I recently acquired a "Old Gold" silk line made by the Horrocks Ibbotson Co.The line is brown and gold in color, 30 yards long, GBG (DT#8) and inexcellent condition. It is very flexable with no cracks or stickness.The line has is "oil tapered" and about 1/3 the thickness of modernlines. Before I fish it with one of my bamboo rods I would like tocondition (grease) it and continue to maintain it over the years. Doesanyone remember how to do this? I can't find references anywhere on theweb.Thanks Ed Muraskicrocm@flinet.com from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Mon Feb 10 20:38:05 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA27736 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 20:38:03 -0600 Subject: Re: Charlie Fox Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is Jon from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Mon Feb 10 21:05:47 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA28778 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 21:05:46 -0600 Subject: Grip Turning Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is Just a question, or rather a poll of opinions if you will. What methods would you all suggest for the turning of grips. Not including a lathe unless someone has one pretty cheap :) Jon from rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us Mon Feb 10 21:20:54 1997 VAA29303 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 21:20:53-0600 Subject: Re: Tapers III At 07:09 PM 2/10/97 -0500, you wrote:Hi Ron,Maybe some are out there fishing, and we here are still shooting in thegeneral direction of a few pheasants, but by and large at this time ofyearBS prevails so let's make the most of it. Bill BillI always catch the largest fish during the off season and make the bestgrouse shot from my easy chair! Rod designs always seem to change alotwhen one gets down off a bar stool and actually steps into the shop. Keep Well Old Friend,Ron> from jsbond@inforamp.net Mon Feb 10 21:28:32 1997 VAA29687 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 21:28:31-0600 Subject: Re: Grip Turning Without as lathe, I think an electric drill on a base (Anglers Workshop)works pretty well. I suggest that you "anchor" the rest of the butt sectionwith a wheel type assembly that can be made very easily. (Likr the rodwrapping jigs you see in the magazines. JB At 22:03 10/02/97 +0000, you wrote:Just a question, or rather a poll of opinions if you will. What methods would you all suggest for the turning of grips. Not including a lathe unless someone has one pretty cheap :) Jon James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from jsbond@inforamp.net Mon Feb 10 21:33:16 1997 VAA29945 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 21:33:14-0600 Subject: Re: Grayrock Wayne, If you end up embroidering anything, let me know as I have some FFspecificdigitised discs available (I can loan them to a most worthy cause), thiswill save you any digitising costs. I will check around for a cost too onthe apron as things in Canada can be less. JB At 11:48 09/02/97 -0500, you wrote:Well it's another 'Gray' day here in Michigan and cabin fever isstarting to take it's toll. This next weekend is the Flint Muddler Minnowsshow over at Swartz Creek and that will bring the group together for afirstplanning secession of TTBBQ 97. The subject has been put aside for awhilebut I have talked to several at the different shows and over the phone.Andperhaps it might be worthy of trying to get a plan together.A review - Offically the activities are scheduled for the 20 & 21 ofJune. But for the more addicted - the 14 is when some of us will bearriving.If the weather co operates it will be a time of fishing on the differentstreams in the area. If the weather doesn't co operate the business atSpike's will be good. As a side note the 14th is a special day for usanyway- That's the day Lyndi came to our family. At one point there was the idea of a work secession for binders andovenshells - The binders for those not coming are in the works - the platesarecut, the arms are made and I am working on pulleys this week with hopestomove them out by next weekend. Several oven shells have been shippedwith anew batch due out this week.Another thought that Doug Hall (our Atlanta representative) and I aregoing to try is to video tape the different demos and such with the ideaofbeing able to provide copies for those not able to come and to haveavailable A call for volunteers - anyone wishing to share techniques - tools -theory - or whatever.Mentioned ideas have been: nodeless constructionsharpening equipment - Sharp 'O' Rama - as Chris put ithex cork checkspowered tools - Al and GeorgeBill WaaraHarold and Eileen Demarestrod design programscreating a resourse listtaper sharelist of web sites And if there are any ideas of how the 'Sporting Flies' contest can behandicapped any further - your input would be appreciated - as in thepastyears the rules will be changes just prior to or during the event. A name? Aprons to commemorate the event? Focus or direction???? James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from mrj@seanet.com Mon Feb 10 22:15:32 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA01702 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 22:15:31 -0600 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA19055 for Subject: Re: Grip Turning I mount a drill motor in a bench clamp. I use a Zyliss vice but you couldmake one pretty easily. To support the rod, I slip pieces of fiberglass rodover the bamboo rod and tape it in position and use a couple of Vee blocks rod down. I also use a foot petal speed control from an old sewingmachine.I guess this is really just a home made lathe but this is really the bestway to turn the grips unless you have a real lathe. ----------From: Jon Lintvet Subject: Grip TurningDate: Monday, February 10, 1997 2:03 PM Just a question, or rather a poll of opinions if you will. What methods would you all suggest for the turning of grips. Not including a lathe unless someone has one pretty cheap :) Jon from DANNUGENT@aol.com Mon Feb 10 22:47:18 1997 ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 22:47:16 -0600 Subject: Re: final form fix BOBYou can drill the clearance side of the pull screw bigger. plug and weld one side of the dowl pin hole.Then redrill and ream.this should be done in a milling machine (BRIDGEPORT)Caution: welding should be done by a pro. (low heat) DAN from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Feb 10 23:11:15 1997 ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 23:11:14 -0600 Subject: Re: Charlie Fox are many that haven't that should have been.Years ago when the flyfishing community was smaller than it is todayandthose that did it were also very concerned with the environment and thepassing on of knowledge there were two groups - one from Michigan andanother from Pennsylvania. I have never heard exactly how it started - perhaps theyears have schrouded that. But I'm sure it had something to do with thefishing and the seriousness of those involved.The tradition was that each group would host the other each summer foraweek or so of fishing. The Pennsylvania group normally fished the Letortandthe Michigan group fished the AuSable. Over the years the faces remainedmostly the same. The Stories I've heard tell of this exchange going on forabout 10 years or so. And just as it started it came to an end. Word has itthat a conflict occurred between a couple members of the group. I'm sureitwas just a reflection of life and relations in general. Several members ofthe group went on to do great things for the sport and hind sight mightshowthat each pushed one another to new plateaus. In a side trip to the second eastern rod makers gathering in PennsylvaniaI met a couple of that side of the group. They still remembered the daysspent together and were surprised that I knew the connections. To the bestofmy knowledge the group consisted of the following. Vince Marinaro - ever wonder how an AuSable riverboat got featured in thebook " In The Ring Of The Rise" Charlie Fox - "The Wonderful World of Trout" Art & Bill Flick - Art wrote "Streamside Guide to Naturals and TheirImitations" George Griffith - Trout Unlimited was founded in his living room 'Uncle' Art Neuman - Art is no relation - gave up his job and went on theroad for an entire year without pay to form T/U chapters through out thecountry. Also owned Wanigas Rod Company - His company sign is onpermanantdisplay at 'The Clubhouse' in Grayrock from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Feb 11 01:20:11 1997 ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 01:20:09 -0600 Subject: Re: Stress Curves In a message dated 97-02-10 22:14:09 EST, you write: No I wouldn't mind at all. If you think it's good enough to beput on your excellent web page, go ahead. If you want I canreword it a bit to fit in the web page context a little better. Mypost was in response to a question posted by someone else. Darryl Hayashida from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Tue Feb 11 06:10:16 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA25647 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 06:10:12 -0600 Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:10:05 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Stress Curves the most straight forward explanation of the curves i've read.. >> No I wouldn't mind at all. If you think it's good enough to beput on your excellent web page, go ahead. If you want I canreword it a bit to fit in the web page context a little better. Mypost was in response to a question posted by someone else. Darryl Hayashida Possibly add a little about what the x-y axis is all about, but apart from that, an excellent description. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Anachemrpo@aol.com Tue Feb 11 06:49:42 1997 ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 06:49:41 -0600 Subject: Re: Charlie Fox In a message dated 97-02-10 21:46:07 EST, you write: Yikes! Have some fun and explore "The Wonderful World of Trout". byCharlesFox from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Feb 11 07:40:25 1997 ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 07:40:24 -0600 Subject: Re: Silk Lines ED --You need to find some "red tin" mucilin to use as the grease. Theyalsosell it in a "green tin", but this is a synthetic that should not be used onsilk. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Feb 11 08:45:57 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA01848 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 08:45:54 -0600 Subject: John Bokstrom's Premier To all, Talked to John last nite and he's finally bought a machine fast enough toplay with us on Rodmakers etc. He expects to be "wired" by tommorrownite. rodmakers get-together in Merritt, British Columbia. This event, I believe,marked the first time a bunch of cane adicts got together to share/trade isa direct result of John's efforts. The Merritt meetings spawned othermeetings in other places. John has contributed a host of ideas to the advancement of rodmaking. ThePlane Leveler on the Rodmakers Homepage is just an example of them. John's email address is You can help me and John [for those that still have it] by posting to therodmakers list the process to get "signed on" and forwarding a copy of theprocess to him and me at our respective addresses. my thanx and please make John welcome, regards, Don from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Feb 11 09:14:02 1997 ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:14:01 -0600 Subject: Re: Grip Turning In a message dated 97-02-10 22:11:23 EST, you write: Just a question, or rather a poll of opinions if you will. What methods would you all suggest for the turning of grips. Not including a lathe unless someone has one pretty cheap :) Jon to prevent dings, pointed the ferrule away and began filing strokes aft tofwd, turning the shaft a bit after each stroke or two. You can get verygoodresults to the point of not being able to discern bumps when spinning thegrip between thumb and forefinger as well as good concentricity. Asuccession of coarse-to-fine files and then sand papers along withpatiencesees the job through. Any reasonable grip shape is possible, and takesonlya a couple hours or so. Regards,Richard Tyree from whensel@ix.netcom.com Tue Feb 11 09:47:57 1997 JAA05458 for ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:47:56-0600 ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Titebond II You wrote: In a message dated 97-02-03 21:46:41 EST, you write: in quite some time. >> Still here, but in a different persona. I got laid off from my jobwith Chevron, but immediately found a new job. Dec 31 wasmy last day with Chevron, and Jan. 2 was my first day withthe new company. I'm getting paid more, and Chevron gaveme 2 weeks of full pay for every year I worked for them as aseverance package. That was a whole half a years pay. So, I can't complain. Anybody know of any good investments? The new company doesn't have an internet connection like Chevron did, so I started an account with AOL so I could stay in touch with you guys. I still use Titebond II, and haven't had any problems. I sometimes use Excel glue also. They both have been holding upwell, no failures. I think Titebond II is an acceptable glue aslong as you are careful about overheating it when you try tostraighten your blank. Franklin says it's good up to boilingtemp (212 F) and it's possible to exceed that temp with aheat gun during straightening. It doesn't have a very longworking time, you better have your splines bound andstraightened 15 minutes after you spread the glue on. Ihave seen Titebond II Extend in a wood workers catalogthat is supposed to have twice the working time, but Ihaven't tried it yet. Excel is harder to use, but has a 4hour working time. If your blank isn't straight by then, itnever will be. Darryl HayashidaHello Bill in Denver> I use that dlue also and enjoy the easy cleanup. The rod maker that John Gierach writes about Mike Clark out of Lyons Colorado I believe use s it also. If its good enough for Mike Clark its good enough for me. Bill in Denver from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Tue Feb 11 10:41:08 1997 ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:41:06 -0600 (5.x/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Bibliography for the archives? Does anyone have a semi-complete bibliography on books/articles dealingwith cane rod making that we could submit to Jerry's (the other Jerry)archive? Ocassionaly I see people referencing books that I was not awareexisted. Thanks,Jerry Ballard (whose other vice is book collecting)ballard@zen.wes.army.mil from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Tue Feb 11 10:52:00 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA09090 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:51:58 -0600 with BSMTP id 6452; Tue, 11 Feb 97 11:50:50 EST MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 5730; Tue, 11 Feb1997 11:50:50 -0500Subject: Re: Grip Turning Jon, I have often used a 24" length of "all thread"about 1/4 or 3/8 in dia. Raw cork is glued and placedon the steel dowel of "all thread", bound in placewith appropriate nuts etc. Then I use my drill asthe lathe, with a home made jig to hold the drill. Thesteel bar is placed in the drill, held in place bythe jig and parallel to the work bench. Now if yourun this the far end of the bar will wobble aroundlike crazy, so you need one more jig to keep it allturning true. A length of 2x 4 mounted perpendicularto the bench and with a hole in it matching the diaof the bar does the trick. A few 1" wide strips ofsand paper and your all set. Bob. from holmesr@mwr.kic.or.jp Tue Feb 11 11:33:08 1997 ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 11:33:06 -0600 Subject: HELLO ARUNDINARIA AMABILIS SPLITTERS i've been hanging around for about a month or so now, downloaded all the archives except the jan. 95 - feb 96, that bruce has on his faq. i'll have to tell all that i wanted to just make fishing rods as a hobby, i had know idea there was anything but graphite or cheaper graphite, untili started searching/surfing the net to find info. what i found was a group of dedicated professional people that somehow became my friends.reading all the back archived material and current material from: bruce conner( great faq bruce! thanks!!) mikaels flyfishing, which was the first i'd found of any kind of rod building and which ultimately led me to bruce, wayne, frank, chris,darryl,don,tom, tony, and all of you that have contributed and keep contributing to this profession.i've sent for garrison's book and wayne's book. talked (email) with frank, and just want to get started. I'm in okinawa japan, tried findingthe water stone and splitters, guess that must be a mainland japan thingbecause as of yet have not figured it out or found, i thought i might beable to locate and get better prices from here. so as i may contributesomething to you cane scientists. just want to let you know that i'm out here learning from you and listening. don't think for a minute that your talking on deaf ears. thanks for your motivation and expertise..keep it coming... wesley d. parker from rmoon@dns.ida.net Tue Feb 11 13:08:42 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA18336 for ;Tue, 11 Feb 1997 13:08:40 - 0600 Subject: Re: Titebond II I use it also and I like it. Only problem has been the very rapid set uptime. I just got some of the extender last week. I'll let you know how itworks.Ralph from whensel@ix.netcom.com Tue Feb 11 15:49:22 1997 ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: HELLO ARUNDINARIA AMABILIS SPLITTERS You wrote: i've been hanging around for about a month or so now, downloaded all the archives except the jan. 95 - feb 96, that bruce has on his faq. i'll have to tell all that i wanted to just make fishing rods as a hobby, i had know idea there was anything but graphite or cheaper graphite, untili started searching/surfing the net to find info. what i found was a group of dedicated professional people that somehow became my friends.reading all the back archived material and current material from: bruce conner( great faq bruce! thanks!!) mikaels flyfishing, which was the first i'd found of any kind of rod building and which ultimately led me to bruce, wayne, frank, chris,darryl,don,tom, tony, and all of you that have contributed and keep contributing to this profession.i've sent for garrison's book and wayne's book. talked (email) with frank, and just want to get started. I'm in okinawa japan, tried findingthe water stone and splitters, guess that must be a mainland japan thingbecause as of yet have not figured it out or found, i thought i might beable to locate and get better prices from here. so as i may contributesomething to you cane scientists. just want to let you know that i'm out here learning from you and listening. don't think for a minute that your talking on deaf ears. thanks for your motivation and expertise..keep it coming... wesley d. parker Hello Wesley, Man I just finished my first rod and hate to say it but looks damn good very pretty compared to my favorite rod which was made by a local rod maker in Colorado. It blows my mind that my first rod came out better than one I paid $700 for and I still love the one I bought. Tomarrow I might take it out on the water. It looks great but maybe it wont cast worth a damn. Oh well it is mine so I will love it till the day I die because its the first one I ever built. The Cat. vedios are great get those also. Regards Bill in Colorado from jboone@julian.uwo.ca Tue Feb 11 16:28:53 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA27861 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 16:28:51 -0600 Subject: Re: depth gauge Dear Phil, Found the same problem with the available points made in China. That iswhyI had to have one reground to 60 degrees. I made my own block. Works fine. Jim. from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Tue Feb 11 18:34:10 1997 SAA02865 for ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 18:34:08-0600 ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Organization: Fred Bohls - Financial Services Subject: Re: Bibliography for the archives? Jerry Ballard wrote: Does anyone have a semi-complete bibliography on books/articlesdealingwith cane rod making that we could submit to Jerry's (the other Jerry)archive? Ocassionaly I see people referencing books that I was notawareexisted. Thanks,Jerry Ballard (whose other vice is book collecting)ballard@zen.wes.army.mil -- SUPER IDEA ... We all know of Garrison, Cattanach, Kirkland, Sinclaire, Kreider, etc,but there must be authors of lesser renown that have something to say. I just learned that George Leonard Herter had a book on cane rodbuilding. Maybe some of these aren't worth a look, but those of you with more'senority' could give advice through the building of this bibliographythat could include titles that, if nothing else, have some historicalnote.FRED~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011-9698Office: (717) 732-2448Fax: (717) 732-2414e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com from crocm@flinet.com Tue Feb 11 18:57:49 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA03620 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 18:57:47 -0600 Subject: Re: Silk Lines Hi Richard and Don Thanks for the input, I completely forgot about that thread in the archives.Given the excellent condition of this line, I will start with the "red tinmucilin" if I can find it again. The last tin I had melted and waterproofedmy vest, but that was at least 25 years ago. Thanks again, BTW the 9' 12wt offshore is almost done, if the rod works, I'll be glad toshare the taper. Ed Muraskicrocm@flinet.com from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Feb 11 19:45:18 1997 TAA05234 for ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 19:45:15-0600 Subject: A suggestion ofthe memories is the tee shirts that they get all their new and old friendsto sign. The idea of an apron came up last year at the class that I wasteaching at 'The Clubhouse' - all the students signed it and it is nowhanging on the wall as part of the memories that were created there I onlywish it had started with the first class that I taught. That's why I thoughtof getting an apron to celebrate the event - markers could be available sothat all your new and old friends can sign your apron. Just think of it assummer camp for more grown up kids. Then when your'e planing away ayear fromnow you will have better linkage to the group. Now I know that there will need to be a couple of 2 or 3 x aprons for acouple of us but to keep the printing cost down I also suggest the wording- Rodmakers At Grayrock 97 - Comments Please from those thinking about attending???????? Wayne Chris - we could do styrofoam beer can wraps from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Feb 11 20:09:05 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA06126 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:09:04 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA12352 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:07:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Grayrock Hiya, from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Feb 11 20:10:23 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA06159 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:10:22 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA12374 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:08:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Grayrock Hiya, Howsabout "Hex Bugs, and Rockin' Poles"?? Brian > from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Feb 11 20:15:57 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA06397 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:15:55 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA12460 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:13:54 -0500 Subject: Re: A suggestion Wayne, Lophraig will melt the styrofoam. Somewhere (Pier One??) I saw highballglasses that were molded glass and looked like bamboo. Anyone else seethese?? Brian from flyh2o@mtsi.com Tue Feb 11 20:24:09 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA06608 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:24:00 -0600 Haven't seen anythng for quite some time. Is Server alive and well?Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from cbogart@ibm.net Tue Feb 11 20:46:21 1997 ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:46:17 -0600 VAA16965 for ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:49:48-0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: A suggestion Wayne Styrofoam beer can wraps sound a go - now can weget the apron with pockets for them to go into ?? may be sixpockets. Seriously - an Rodmakers Apron sounds like a neat Chris from jsbond@inforamp.net Tue Feb 11 21:18:11 1997 VAA08655 for ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:18:10-0600 WAA04735 for ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:18:23 Subject: Re: GREETINGS, LOTS OF MAIL 15-30 PERDAY. I SUGGEST YOU SIGN OFF AND SIGN BACK ONTHESERVER. THIS HAPPENS from TIME TO TIME. jb At 19:09 11/02/97 -0800, you wrote:Haven't seen anythng for quite some time. Is Server alive and well?Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Feb 11 21:37:55 1997 ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:37:53 -0600 Subject: It's Show Time One of the many ways to get out and meet the buying public is to rentbooth space at one of what seems to be a never ending list of flyfishingshows. I started 10 years ago or I sorta started. I had rented a booth butinstead of selling my rods I eventually went to help Wes Cooper to sellhis.Wes always wanted to do a show but was reluctant to take the step - sowewent together. I took a backseat for a couple of years and let Wes do histhing. Some may understand the 'why' of that. Well a bamboo rodmaker doesn't really need an entire 10' x 10' booth toshow his goods so Al Rockwood a local fly tier came on board as well. Thisisa good combination - especially if the tier is doing instructions - it drawsa crowd and where some have stopped others stop just to see what isgoing on- 'rubber necking' isn't just a highway sport. The end result is a chance tomeet potential clients and also to reduce the cost of doing a show bysplitting expenses.Wes and Al have chose to slow down a bit and neither do the localshowsanymore. So the new rod maker - fly tier combination is now Wayne andSam.Now some of you have heard me talk of Sam in the past and a few of youhavemet him. Sam can be colorful and direct. I for one appreciate hisdirectness.We have a friendship that goes back for years. Before 'The Clubhouse' therewas 'The Chicken Coop" - that's right we used to hang out in a chickencoop.This weekend 'the team' hits the road at Swartz Creek. And because of myexcitement I haven't slept well for the past few nights. We were told thatwewere having far too much fun together a couple of years ago at Chicago.Butyou know that's what folks enjoy - being part of a casual group the canlaughand have fun together and so we did well. And just when you think it hasgotten good. When we do Southfield this year 'The Woodchuck' is comingdownto be part of the festivities. The wookchuck is the only person I know thathas sold a $15,000 landing net. Some saw his entry level nets at Grayrockacouple years ago.Anyway the whole idea of this is to give those looking for a way tobreak the ice and try to sell the products an idea of how to do a flyfishingshow. For those that are interested - I might be able to get Sam to do aquest spot for an nominal fee.Both Swartz Creek and Southfield are club sponsered events and don'thave the price tag of the coastal shows. Southfield started as the 'BambooRod Revival' over 20 years ago and there is a strong following for canerodsyet today. A booth at either is about $350 - then a couple of nights in ahotel at $50 per night - then some transportation. So for a couple ofhundredor so you can test the water. Now some may think that being the only rod maker at a show might bethebest. But I would disagree. The more the better. Buyers like to kick tiresand when they make a decision there is less chance of buyer remorse iftheyhave had a chance of seeing all there options. Isn't it strange in life likethat - all the auto dealers seem to be in one close area - the malls areanother good example - Sears on one end - Penneys on the other with adozenother like products in between.It is also a wise idea to check out to see what the competition has. Gomeet the makers and look at their rods - you may just learn something. Ifyouare serious about making the dream of selling rods come true - then youneedto know what you are up against. I remember the first show I went to andseeing some of the rods. I had to have one of those frank discussions withmyself on the way home - but that's part of the education that we allseemingly will pay for.But it's not just the rods - it's also the brochures - the look of thebooth - and even the dress. Now some may argue that a show is not the way but rather nationaladvertising - WRONG - an ad in Angler's Journal may work for some but allIseemingly have done with national ads is to spend money on postagesendingbrochures to collectors of literature - that is if they don't get my grumpyneighbor because of a wrong phone number. Because you are selling part ofyour soul the buyer whats to meet what's left. Face to face is one of thebest ways to make contacts.It may appear odd to some that I could be laying the ground work forpotential lost sales by encouraging competition. Personally I haven't foundthat true. Sooner or later I think that most making bamboo fly rods want achance to sell them. At least locally each of us have our own circle ofclients. I would suspect that most of this group that are selling rods areupto their neck and can't do more if they wanted to. Something to Think About Wayne PS - at least "the Coop' was warm and dry - earlier in life I have sleptunder a jeep in a downpour questioning which of the two evils was worse- therain or the oil dripping off the undercarriage from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Tue Feb 11 21:40:00 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA09407 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:39:56 -0600 Wed, 12 Feb 1997 11:39:52 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Silk Lines If you can't find any in the US, you're bound to in the UK some where. Tony Hi Richard and Don Thanks for the input, I completely forgot about that thread in thearchives.Given the excellent condition of this line, I will start with the "red tinmucilin" if I can find it again. The last tin I had melted and waterproofedmy vest, but that was at least 25 years ago. Thanks again, BTW the 9' 12wt offshore is almost done, if the rod works, I'll be glad toshare the taper. Ed Muraskicrocm@flinet.com /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jfoster@gte.net Tue Feb 11 21:42:57 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA09503 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:42:55 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id VAA05821 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:42:54 -0600 Subject: Re: Stress Curves Darryl ThanksYes ,,if you'd like to rework and expand it a bit that'd be dandy,Iliked your mix of technical understanding and grass root explanationthough...also .. would you like to put a copy of your excel slope generator online with an expl Jerry from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Feb 11 21:57:20 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA10079 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:57:19 -0600 0700 Subject: Jerry Ballard's suggestion To all, Rooted through the basement libary and made a list of the books presentlyowned ['course, always looking for more] Some of the books are not solely about rodmaking but address some aspectofthe rodmaking craft. The date after the publisher is the copyright date.Fewof the books are available presently. There are several books in the listbelow that are about rodmakers. Keane and Spurr's books are both funreading. The pictures give you some idea of the tools used by variousbuilders. - In The ring of the Rise by Vincent C. Marinaro - Nick Lyons Books [1976]- publisher - Planes and Chisels by Fine Woodworking Mag. - The Tauton Press[ 1985]- publisher - How to Make Bamboo Fly Rods by George W. Barnes - Winchester Press[1977]-publisher - The Fine Bamboo Fly Rod, a Master's Secrets of Restoration and Repair byStuart Kirkfield - Stackpole Book [1986]- publisher - Classic Rods and Rodmakers by Martin J. Keane - Winchester Press[1976]- publisher - The Angler's Workshop - by Letcher Lambuth - Champoeg Press [1979] - publisher - Fly Rods and Fly Tackle - by Henry P. Wells - Harper & brothers [1885] - publisher - The Idyl of the Split-Bamboo by Dr. George Parker Holden - Stuart & KiddCompany [1920] - publisher - Professional Split-Bamboo rod Building Manual and Manufacturer's GuidebyGeorge Leonard Herter - [1949] - privately published - Handcrafting Bamboo Fly Rods - by Wayne Cattanach - [1992] privatelypublished? - Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook by Michael Sinclair - CentennialPublications [ 1994] publisher - Stangbyning - Bygning af splitcane-fluestaeger by Preben Torp Jacobsen-in Danish - privately published - Classic Bamboo Rodmakers Past and Present by Dick Spurr - CentennialPublication [1992] - publisher - Colorado Classic Cane - A History of the Colorado bamboo Rod Makers byDick Spurr & Michael Sinclair - Centennial Publications [1991] -publishers - A Master's Guide to Building A Bamboo Fly Rod by Everett Garrison withHoagy B. Carmichael - Martha's Glen Publishing Co. [1977] - publisher - Plancecraft: A Woddwork's Handbook by John Sainbury - SterlingPublishingCo. [1984] - publisher - A complete Guide to Sharpening by Leonard Lee - The Taunton Press[1995] -publisher from crocm@flinet.com Tue Feb 11 21:59:21 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA10100 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:59:19 -0600 Subject: Re: Silk Lines At 11:39 AM 2/12/97 +0800, you wrote:If you can't find any in the US, you're bound to in the UK some where. Tony Hi Richard and Don Thanks for the input, I completely forgot about that thread in thearchives.Given the excellent condition of this line, I will start with the "red tinmucilin" if I can find it again. The last tin I had melted andwaterproofedmy vest, but that was at least 25 years ago. Thanks again, BTW the 9' 12wt offshore is almost done, if the rod works, I'll be gladtoshare the taper. Ed Muraskicrocm@flinet.com /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ Thanks Tony, The last tin I bought was in the U.K. when I haunted the fine rivers ofWales. Ed Muraskicrocm@flinet.com from jsmm@interaccess.com Tue Feb 11 22:13:38 1997 WAA10511 for ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:13:36-0600 Subject: Re: I was just thinking about sending you a line. I've been running with workand haven't logged much time on the computer. The Oregon fly-fishingregsgot some nice exposure on the Virtual Fly Shop site. Do you ever hit theirchat room? I'm going to be back in Washington sometime in April to help my parentsmove, and fish of course, and then probably again in August. My parentshave been looking at a farm/ranch near the Touchet River, and then someland on the Tucannon River. I'm really looking forward to spending a fewdays in the middle of a week on Lenore or Dry Falls. Hopefully thepressure will be light and their will be time to check Rocky Ford. I also want to check out some of the fishing in the SE part of the state,but I also don't want to spend most of the trip driving and not fishing. Mike will probably meet us in Vantage again for a weekend and it would benice to get him into some fish on Lenore or make him mad by showing himsome big selective fish at Rocky Ford. My thoughts continually drift to fishing and I hope I'm back west on a morepermanent basis in the long run. I'm ready to start making my first cane rod as soon as the culms get here. I've slowly gathered the tools and forms to do the job right, now I justhave to take my time and see what I can do. I'm starting with an 8' 5wtand I'll try and restore the LL Bean rod at the same time. Take care, Matt from jsmm@interaccess.com Tue Feb 11 22:18:26 1997 WAA10644 for ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:18:22-0600 Subject: Message to Leitheiser Just a quick apology to the group for my last message. Meant to send it toMike directly. Matt from crocm@flinet.com Tue Feb 11 23:06:01 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA12287 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:05:59 -0600 Subject: Re-establishing the Art Having fished with cane most of my adult line, and having built cane rods Tonkin. You can truly engineer the material unlike any modern synthetic.Subtle changes in flaming or oven temperatures can bring outcharacteristicin the rod which can out perform all the latest and the greatest from thechemical companies. Add to this the powerful use of variable tapers andonecan build the ultimate stick for the application. I recently returned to Florida ( I am one of a few natives ) I find myinterest returning to heavy weight tackle. This may be helped to a degreebya local restaurant which has two 1920's bamboo boat rods hanging on thewall. I am currently finishing a 9' 12 wt offshore for Marlin, Sails andTuna. I plan to begin a series of heavy weight offshore cane rods, gimbelmounts, harness mounts etc: for some of the big stuff. The material we have chosen to practice our art is magnificent, it hascapabilities which only the past masters recognize. Any help I can get from the group will be appreciated. Ed Muraskicrocm@flinet.com from RckyMtKane@aol.com Tue Feb 11 23:14:07 1997 ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:14:06 -0600 Subject: Re: Titebond II To all Titebond II usersWhat I have done when using Titebond II is to get one section at a timereadyand glue it, clean up your mess and start over again with the next section.This glue is so easy to use, and clean up, that there is no reason not to doit this way and you get great results. I lay my strips on the tableprotectedwith freezer paper and squirt some glue on them, spread it with atoothbrushand bind, What could be easier?Try it you'll like it. So much for my two cents :-)Hopethis helps someoneJoe from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue Feb 11 23:25:21 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA13106 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:25:19 -0600 Subject: Varnishing Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is A question for everyone out there about finishing wraps. Are you all using varnish or epoxy to coat you wraps. Also, if you are using varnish, how many coats? To keep being a pest, I will also ask what type of varnish, and will varnish stand up to saltwater? Jon from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Wed Feb 12 05:34:13 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA04262; Wed, 12 Feb1997 05:33:56 -0600 Wed, 12 Feb 1997 19:33:37 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: John Bokstrom's Premier To subscribe to the Rodmakers Listserv: send the following message via e- mail (2) Leave the subject line of the e-mail blank(3) In the message portion of the e-mail write,Subscribe Rodmakers YOUR NAME Is that what you were after? Tony On Tue, 11 Feb 1997, Don Andersen wrote: /***************** SNIP ***************/ You can help me and John [for those that still have it] by posting to therodmakers list the process to get "signed on" and forwarding a copy oftheprocess to him and me at our respective addresses. Don /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us Wed Feb 12 05:51:04 1997 FAA04581 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 05:51:03-0600 Subject: Re: John Bokstrom's Premier At 07:42 AM 2/11/97 -0700, you wrote:To all, Talked to John last nite and he's finally bought a machine fast enough toplay with us on Rodmakers etc. He expects to be "wired" by tommorrownite. bamboorodmakers get-together in Merritt, British Columbia. This event, Ibelieve,marked the first time a bunch of cane adicts got together to share/trade isa direct result of John's efforts. The Merritt meetings spawned othermeetings in other places. John has contributed a host of ideas to the advancement of rodmaking.ThePlane Leveler on the Rodmakers Homepage is just an example of them. John's email address is You can help me and John [for those that still have it] by posting to therodmakers list the process to get "signed on" and forwarding a copy oftheprocess to him and me at our respective addresses. my thanx and please make John welcome, regards, Don DEAR JOHN,WELCOME ABOARD! LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU IN ONTARIO. Ron Barch from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Wed Feb 12 06:26:03 1997 GAA05605 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 06:26:02-0600 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA27849 for; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 07:26:03 -0500 Comments: Authenticated sender is Subject: RE: Titebond II Priority: normal Hello all, Its nice to see alot of new names cropping up. Anyway, I've seen alot of Titebond users as of late, I'm getting tempted to go for it. Its reasonable, easy to use, no mixing, readily available, now there is an extended working time version, why would I use URAC or epoxies.As far as i can see, the only negative about its use is that it is not time tested. Is this true??? Any devil's advocates out there??? Thanks.Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from crocm@flinet.com Wed Feb 12 07:09:05 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA07165 for; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 07:09:01 -0600 Subject: RE: Titebond II Tom: Titebond II has an additional problem, it will breakdown at the elevatedtemperatures required for straightening. So if you use it the stick betterbe straight before the stuff sets. I use it on my cane putter and wedgeshafts which don't need to be straightened. Some of the new polyethyleneglues (Gorilla, Excel, and now Titebond ) are just as convenient, strongerand can deal with the temperatures, give them a try. At 07:07 AM 2/12/97 +0000, you wrote:Hello all, Its nice to see alot of new names cropping up. Anyway, I've seen alot of Titebond users as of late, I'm getting tempted to go for it. Its reasonable, easy to use, no mixing, readily available, now there is an extended working time version, why would I use URAC or epoxies.As far as i can see, the only negative about its use is that it is not time tested. Is this true??? Any devil's advocates out there??? Thanks.Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Feb 12 08:50:37 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA10118 for; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 08:50:36 -0600 (4.1/SMI-4.0); Tue, 11 Feb 97 19:28:56 CST IAA05001 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 Subject: Re:Titebond-II I guess this warning by Chris Bogart, from 12/95, has cautioned meaway from Titebond II.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@csd.uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Subject: Titebond-2 Final Verdict I have been using Titebond-2 for making spices on nodeless rods and also this glue for splices. I had talked with other and found no problems. Remember, I even queried this group as to any problems. I have now had problems with failure after application of heat.I splice with titebond and glue the strips with epoxy. I also heat treatthis glue to raise the thermal deflection temp. I also had to dominor straightening in a butt section and had failure of a splice section.After talking John Zimny (read his article in the latest Planing Form onglues) I called Borden Custom-Pak and talked to Kent Pitcher at length.Titebond is a PVA family glue. He recognizes the problem of a lowthermalfailure point. He does not reccomend this glue for rodbuilding. I also waswalking a thin line with the heat treatment. If I had done everything withtitebond it may be a different story, but ....He suggest either a polyurethane (Excel is one) or even bettera urea formaldehyde glue. I am switching glues for splicing because ofthe potential for failure. Others be warned about the effect of heat onthis glue. He also says that they get failure in cabinet manafacturingwhere they heat treat the finish at 200+ degrees. I will continue to use Titebond for my grips and rod cases. Sothere is a lesson to be learned here. Titebond may be easy and convient touse but you chance paying the price. Chris from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Wed Feb 12 09:19:59 1997 ; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:19:57 -0600 (5.x/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Re: Titebond II I tried Titebond II on some test pieces back in Sept. When it wasdried I found that I could grab the ends of the pieces and pull themapart! Perhaps I didn't bind them tight enough while drying. Anyway Ispent the big $20.00 (US) bought URAC, did the same test, and wasunable pull the pieces apart with out breaking the cane. Not very scientific, but at my level of novice, it seemed safer to usethe old tried and true URAC. Bob Nunley directed me to the people whosell URAC (Nelson Paint Co. (906)-774-5566), who were very nice andable to understand my southern accent. (grin) Just my inexperienced thoughts,Jerryballard@zen.wes.army.mil from whensel@ix.netcom.com Wed Feb 12 10:24:57 1997 ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: PUBLIC THANKS OFFERED TO JOE ARGUELLO THE OWNER OF ROCKY MOUNTAIN KANE, THANKYOU FOR YOUR AVICE AND KINDNESS THROUGHOUT THE PROCESSOF THE MAKING OF MY FIRST ROD. YOU WERE ALWAYS PATIENT WITH ME ON THE TELEPHONE EVEN THOUGH YOU WERE BUSY WITH YOUR FLY SHOP. YOU METHODS ALONE ARE OF THE NATURE THAT A BEGINNING RODMAKER WILL HAVE A GREAT DEGREE OF SUCCESS IN THE INITIAL STAGES OF THISGREAT HOBBY.TO ANYONE READING THIS POST I WANT TO SAY THAT JOE RODS ARESOME OF THE PRETTIST RODS I HAVE EVER LAID EYES ON. THEY ARE SOMTHING TO BEHOD. THEY MIGHT HAVE ONE FAULT AND THAT IS "JOES RODS LOOK SONICE THAT IT MIGHT BE DIFFICULT FOR THE OWNER TO ACTUALLY FISH WITH THERODS HE MAKES."NO MATTER HOW NICE LOOKING MY RODS BECOME....I WILL BUILD THEM WAVE THEM AS IF THEY WERE MAJIC WANDS WITH THE HOPE ATTACHED TO THEM THATON THE NEXT CAST A TROUT WILL CONNECT. THANKYOU JOE Bill Hensel from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Wed Feb 12 13:53:52 1997 NAA25511 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 13:53:50-0600 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA23818 for; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 14:53:49 -0500 Comments: Authenticated sender is Subject: re: Titebond.... NOT Priority: normal All right, you scared me, URAC it is. Boy did cave in easy.Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from Barry_Demmers@radian.com Wed Feb 12 15:50:26 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA01290 for; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 15:50:21 -0600 PAA13276 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 15:49:53 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.03 (Beta 6) Enterprise) id 00045434; Wed, 12Feb 97 15:50:43 -0600 Subject: Lost Connection Is the server down? Haven't received any messages in two days. Look forward to learning more about bamboo rod making. regards from Mikael.Marklund@orkestern.skelleftea.SE Wed Feb 12 16:47:48 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA04532 for; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 16:47:44 -0600 1.21);12 Feb 97 23:54:01 MET DST 23:53:49 MET DST 12 Feb 97 23:53:45 MET DSTComments: Authenticated sender is Subject: More books!Priority: normal Here's some more books about bamboo rodmaking: The Bamboo Rod (And how to build it)-Claude M.Kreider(-51, -79 and -92) Sadan vaelger og bygger man fiskestanger-Henrik Bech (-64) Making Fishing-Rods as a Hobby-Harry Brotherton (-60) Splitcanestaenger-Bygning af Splitcanestaenger-Poul Buch Jensen (-74) Amateur Rodmaking-Perry D Frazer (-22) How to build your own Spli Cane Fishing rod-G. Lawton Moss (-47, -54) La Canne a mouche a Truite, Objet d'Art-Joann=E9s Robin (-46) Rods- How to make them-J.B. Walker (-59) Is somebody working on a bibliography?---------------------------------------------- ------------------Mikael Marklundmikael.marklund@orkestern.skelleftea.sehttp://www.skelleftea.se/utb/balder/personal/ba-mma/flyfish.htm from jaquin@netsync.net Wed Feb 12 17:15:22 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA06412 for; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:15:20 -0600 quartz.netsync.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA06276 for; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 18:15:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Titebond II William Hensel wrote: You wrote: In a message dated 97-02-03 21:46:41 EST, you write: from himin quite some time. >> Still here, but in a different persona. I got laid off from my jobwith Chevron, but immediately found a new job. Dec 31 wasmy last day with Chevron, and Jan. 2 was my first day withthe new company. I'm getting paid more, and Chevron gaveme 2 weeks of full pay for every year I worked for them as aseverance package. That was a whole half a years pay. So,I can't complain. Anybody know of any good investments?The new company doesn't have an internet connection likeChevron did, so I started an account with AOL so I couldstay in touch with you guys. I still use Titebond II, and haven't had any problems. I sometimes use Excel glue also. They both have been holding upwell, no failures. I think Titebond II is an acceptable glue aslong as you are careful about overheating it when you try tostraighten your blank. Franklin says it's good up to boilingtemp (212 F) and it's possible to exceed that temp with aheat gun during straightening. It doesn't have a very longworking time, you better have your splines bound andstraightened 15 minutes after you spread the glue on. Ihave seen Titebond II Extend in a wood workers catalogthat is supposed to have twice the working time, but Ihaven't tried it yet. Excel is harder to use, but has a 4hour working time. If your blank isn't straight by then, itnever will be. Darryl HayashidaHello Bill in Denver> I use that dlue also and enjoy the easy cleanup. The rod maker thatJohn Gierach writes about Mike Clark out of Lyons Colorado I believeuse s it also. If its good enough for Mike Clark its good enough forme. Bill in Denverspeaking of excel e-mail me and i will tell you about a good investment from cbogart@ibm.net Wed Feb 12 18:08:02 1997 ; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 18:08:00 -0600 TAA28453 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 19:11:41-0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: More books! Mikael / Don Let me add one more unique book to the list: The Trout - Stream and Rod by Bill Phillips (76) Chris from cbogart@ibm.net Wed Feb 12 18:19:13 1997 ; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 18:19:11 -0600 TAA28591 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 19:22:58-0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re:Titebond-II Frank Yeah - Titebond has a thermal problem - mine was caused bythe heat treatment phase of Nyatex. I now use Dinasour Glue aka ShellEpon (828 + 3140) - and also stagger the splices - No problems notedthese changes. People will also like the ease of the Shell Epoxy - nicestuff. Also - people forget - use titebond for gluing the cork grips is alsoa go! Chris from GLohkamp@aol.com Wed Feb 12 18:45:05 1997 ; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 18:45:03 -0600 Subject: Tapers Bill Rod Maker is a program that l got from jerry's web site . lt was written byBruce Conner for windows. l understand that it was based on Waynes HexRodjust formated for windows.Thank you for the tip about the other programitshould be alot of help seeing how different tapers relate to stress curvesand rod function.The idea of 5ft sections is something l've been playing around with,l'amsure that it is nothing new . lf you started with a ideal butt dia, thensubtracted the straight taper over the 12 stations and do the same withthetip section.You would have two slightly overlapping sections. My examplewould be , butt dia, of .340 minus .014 x 12 , 5 inch stations equals .172 sliding two peices of paper like a slide rule one with the tip taper theother with the butt taper , you can see that there are alot of possilblecombinations and lenghts depending on where you make your cut.Should be able to make many different rod lenghts 8ft and under with apossible line range of 3 to a 6 weight. l used this to build some rods andhad good results ,l did not build the whole 5 ft section but just the part lwanted ,not wanting to deal with the extra nodes and straighting . lntheroyyou could have a bunch of these sections premade and lf a 8 ft 5 weight iswhat you wanted just trim the sections .lt's something to think about . Thanks Gary from jfoster@gte.net Wed Feb 12 19:37:25 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA11755 for; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 19:37:24 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id TAA21868 for; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 19:37:23 -0600 Subject: Re: Thanks, Don, Mikael, Chris Look under bookshelf, a prototype is in progress. (More anyone) I may as well deal with this in one or two or three shots.Thanks again Jerry from rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us Wed Feb 12 19:57:43 1997 TAA12271 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 19:57:39-0600 Subject: re: Titebond.... NOT At 02:34 PM 2/12/97 +0000, you wrote:All right, you scared me, URAC it is. Boy did cave in easy.Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering Glue Comment: I hope we do not forget about the stuff called Resorcinol. I know itsugly but it works. John Zimny's research shows that resorcinol is still thebest all around adhesive for rodmaking. If one is very carefull the darklines are almost unnoticable in blonde cane. I like the stuff...ugly linesor not.Ron Barch ps didn't someone oncwe write a song about never making a pretty womanyourwife. > from rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us Wed Feb 12 19:59:59 1997 TAA12336 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 19:59:56-0600 Subject: Re: More books! At 11:46 PM 2/12/96 +0000, you wrote:Here's some more books about bamboo rodmaking: The Bamboo Rod (And how to build it)-Claude M.Kreider(-51, -79 and -92) Sadan vaelger og bygger man fiskestanger-Henrik Bech (-64) Making Fishing-Rods as a Hobby-Harry Brotherton (-60) Splitcanestaenger-Bygning af Splitcanestaenger-Poul Buch Jensen (-74) Amateur Rodmaking-Perry D Frazer (-22) How to build your own Spli Cane Fishing rod-G. Lawton Moss (-47, -54) La Canne a mouche a Truite, Objet d'Art-Joann=E9s Robin (-46) Rods- How to make them-J.B. Walker (-59) Is somebody working on a bibliography?---------------------------------------------- ------------------Mikael Marklundmikael.marklund@orkestern.skelleftea.sehttp://www.skelleftea.se/utb/balder/personal/ba-mma/flyfish.htm I am currently working on a book project which is a collection of articles from the Planing Form. In the last chapter is a 3 page booklist. It istaken from back issues of the newsletters.Ron Barch> from jsbond@inforamp.net Wed Feb 12 20:18:09 1997 UAA13103 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 20:18:07-0600 VAA27554 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 21:18:14 Subject: More Books Greetings, More Books for the collector: TROUT 2 Volumes Ernie Schwiebert - a good section on cane. The Wise fisherman's Encycoledia 1951 Wise & Co. A good section on canerodbuilding The Fly and the Fish John Atherton 1951 The Mcmillan Company. A chapteronhis personal rod philosophy and reference to makers of the day. Also agoodsection on lines and leaders with a good amount of information on silklinesand an explanation of the line ratings of the day. JBJames Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Feb 12 20:56:20 1997 ; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 20:56:19 -0600 Subject: Re: Stress Curves In a message dated 97-02-11 22:46:52 EST, Jerry writes: No problem on reworking the stress curve explanation, and Ireally don't have a problem with giving others my Excelspreadsheet, except I didn't expect to be giving to othersand it's not very user friendly. I put it together as fast as I could just to get results, not to be easy to use. Bruce Connor'sprogram gives the exact same results as far as I can see, andit's a whole lot easier to use. I have been considering writing a stress analysis program,based on a stress curve, not the taper. Most stress programsI've seen (including my spreadsheet) take a taper and show you a stress curve. What I want to do is take a blank graph,and enter points on it by clicking with the mouse. When you are done, the taper is calculated and the diameters are presented in a table. If you want to alter the stress curve,using the mouse, click and drag the curve into a differentshape. When you drag a point of the curve to a new position,the taper is back calculated and shown to you. So in essenceinstead of designing a taper and seeing what the stress curvelooks like, you would design a stress curve and be given thetaper. I've found that lately that's the way I have been designingmy cane rods, by repetitive iterations of changing the taper, looking at the stress curve, changing the taper, etc, etc.My only problem is finding the time to write the program. I'drather be making the rods than programming in my spare time.Programming is what I do to make a living, rod building is whatI do for fun (other than fishing). Darryl Hayashida from jfoster@gte.net Wed Feb 12 21:09:07 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA14959 for; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 21:09:05 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id VAA02564 for; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 21:08:58 -0600 Subject: Re: Stress Curves Darryl What a great project and a great feat. Not so easy I think| If you canpull it off i think it's like the missing link. Good luckJerry from rmoon@dns.ida.net Wed Feb 12 21:48:22 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA15991 for ;Wed, 12 Feb 1997 21:48:21 - 0600 Subject: re: Titebond.... NOT At 02:34 PM 2/12/97 +0000, you wrote:All right, you scared me, URAC it is. Boy did cave in easy.Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering Now would you like some horror stories about URAC, like the time Ifinishedtwo rods simultaneously took them out on the lown to try them out andbothof the butt sections severely delaminated. Or the case of nodelesssectionsbreaking in the glue itself rather than failing between the glue and thewood. There are a few more. Tell those who have delaminations fromstraihtening not to use a blow torch. I've made about a dozen rods withTite Bond II and never had a minutes problem.. The only problem I see isthevery fast set up time, and that can be handled. Ralph Moon from JCZIMNY@dol.net Wed Feb 12 22:18:13 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA16967 for ;Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:18:12 - 0600 Subject: Re: Titebond.... NOT Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG wrote: All right, you scared me, URAC it is. Boy did cave in easy.Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering URAC is a trade name of American Cyanmide. It is a formulation of Urea Formaldehyde adhesive.John from JCZIMNY@dol.net Wed Feb 12 22:38:26 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA18168 for ;Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:38:24 - 0600 Subject: Re: Titebond.... NOT Ralph W. Moon wrote: At 02:34 PM 2/12/97 +0000, you wrote:All right, you scared me, URAC it is. Boy did cave in easy.Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering Now would you like some horror stories about URAC, like the time Ifinishedtwo rods simultaneously took them out on the lown to try them out andbothof the butt sections severely delaminated. Or the case of nodelesssectionsbreaking in the glue itself rather than failing between the glue and thewood. There are a few more. Tell those who have delaminations fromstraihtening not to use a blow torch. I've made about a dozen rods withTite Bond II and never had a minutes problem.. The only problem I see isthevery fast set up time, and that can be handled. Ralph Moon Ralph, I think that can happen when the cane is too dry. What happens is the the water in the glue gets sucked into the intracellular interstices while leaving the resins behind. The answer is to give the cane a very light misting of water bfore applying the glue and using a quantity of wetting solution 7.5% by weight to the glue mixture. This should prevent any bonding problems such as you experienced. Keep in mind that there are quite a few formulations of urea formaldehydes out there and some, such as URAC already contain significant quantities of ferferyl Alchohal(I can't spell it and my spell checker can't either). But, employed with caution it does improve the ability of the glue to properly wet the cane.RegardsJohn from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Thu Feb 13 01:43:58 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA05835 for; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 01:43:54 -0600 Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15:43:51 +0800 (WST) Subject: re: Titebond.... NOT A neat glue job using resorcinol looks good (in some eyes anyhow). It has the effect of defining the hex shape and depending on the wraps colour and hardware used can look very effective. Tony Glue Comment: I hope we do not forget about the stuff called Resorcinol. I know itsugly but it works. John Zimny's research shows that resorcinol is stillthebest all around adhesive for rodmaking. If one is very carefull the darklines are almost unnoticable in blonde cane. I like the stuff...ugly linesor not.Ron Barch ps didn't someone oncwe write a song about never making a prettywoman yourwife. > /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from glock@seaside.net Thu Feb 13 01:51:34 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA05955 for; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 01:51:31 -0600 (router,SLMAILNT V2.2); Wed, 12 Feb 1997 23:49:23 Pacific StandardTime (206.87.90.69::mail daemon; unverified,SLMAILNT V2.2); Wed, 12 Feb1997 23:49:22 Pacific Standard Time Subject: tonkin cane Hello I have recently become intereted in building a bamboo rod and have beentracking down all the info that is available on the net. This list serveis great for learning. The question that I have is where can I purchasetonkin cane. I live on Vancouver Island in the Province of BC, Canada. from what I have read so far tonkin cane is the only cane that the"good" rods are made from. Is that correct? -- *************************CHEERS...GRANT/DARCYHOME PAGE ************************** from Barry_Demmers@radian.com Thu Feb 13 08:57:56 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA18785 for; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 08:57:53 -0600 IAA29534 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 08:57:28 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.03 (Beta 6) Enterprise) id 000460B6; Thu, 13Feb 97 08:58:59 -0600 Subject: subscribe from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Thu Feb 13 09:16:18 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA19879 for; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 09:16:17 -0600 CST Subject: re: Titebond.... NOT Ron seez... I hope we do not forget about the stuff called Resorcinol. I know itsugly but it works. John Zimny's research shows that resorcinol is stillthebest all around adhesive for rodmaking. If one is very carefull the darklines are almost unnoticable in blonde cane. I like the stuff...ugly linesor not. Just a reminder, in the new edition of the Garrison/Carmichael bookCarmichael added a paragraph on how to lighten the color of Resorcinol from purple to a light tan. Might be the answer to those 'ugly lines'... :-) Mike - varicose glue lines - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu Feb 13 13:57:58 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA08383 for ;Thu, 13 Feb 1997 13:57:54 - 0600 Subject: Re: Titebond.... NOT Michael Biondo wrote: Ron seez... I hope we do not forget about the stuff called Resorcinol. I know itsugly but it works. John Zimny's research shows that resorcinol is stillthebest all around adhesive for rodmaking. If one is very carefull the darklines are almost unnoticable in blonde cane. I like the stuff...ugly linesor not. Just a reminder, in the new edition of the Garrison/Carmichael bookCarmichael added a paragraph on how to lighten the color of Resorcinol from purple to a light tan. Might be the answer to those 'ugly lines'... :-) Mike - varicose glue lines - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo.Ah yes. You may lighten resocinol temporarily. But thepurple color always comes back. The two US companies that make this glue have been trying to lighten it for 30 years and they have not been able to perminently lighten it.John from Leessinker@aol.com Thu Feb 13 13:58:55 1997 ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 13:58:53 -0600 Subject: Loose Ferrules Hi All,I have a few questions , please excuse me if they seem simple.Background - Recently picked up an old bamboo from a friend , 8' 5 piece(1butt section , 2 for dry , 2 for wet) Custom built for an old gentleman byHeddon , no label but with only a signature "Spalding" wraps are yellowwithblack tipping , finish is clear , no yellowing , hazing or cracking, cork isclean like the day it was made , nickel silver slip ring reel seat andferrules . Would you believe it's straight ? Very well taken care of andstored carefully. Sound too good to be true? One minor flaw, the ferrulesareloose on two of the sections. Here's where I need advice , upon carefulremoval of the ferrule what adhesive should be used ? Will any two partrodbuilding apoxy suffice or low temp thermo-activated? Any ideas onmatchingthe yellow used on Heddon rod's , will Guderod Bright Yellow 8933 silkthreadwork? The black tipping does not appear to be thread , a tape maybe ?Whatvarnish is prefered by you more experienced Rodmakers? Last but notleast , Iwas told that it is a 6-7 wt. rod , but looking at the red agite stripperguide (.150 in. I.D. ) that seems heavy.Your help would be greatlyappreciated when you have something nice and unique it should be doneright.(Of corse I could just by Wayne's books and do some reading)THX - Dewayne Davison from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Feb 13 17:29:49 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA21109 for; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:29:46 -0600 Subject: re: Titebond.... NOT Mike, And I hate to ask this, but how do you change the color? Don At 19:54 12/02/97 CST, you wrote:Ron seez... I hope we do not forget about the stuff called Resorcinol. I know itsugly but it works. John Zimny's research shows that resorcinol is stillthebest all around adhesive for rodmaking. If one is very carefull the darklines are almost unnoticable in blonde cane. I like the stuff...ugly linesor not. Just a reminder, in the new edition of the Garrison/Carmichael bookCarmichael added a paragraph on how to lighten the color of Resorcinol from purple to a light tan. Might be the answer to those 'ugly lines'... :-) Mike - varicose glue lines - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from jfoster@gte.net Thu Feb 13 18:18:13 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA24077 for; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:18:10 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id SAA26848 for; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:18:07 -0600 Subject: bookshelf Ok, The Bookshelf is pretty much up to speed, so give it a kick. Chris, my DNS won't resolve Mitutoya? The others are there. Wayne, Ron I have a Video section on the bookshelf, need a contactpoint, preferably phone no. Thanks Jerry ( from the other Jerry), it needed to be done, thanks forthe impetus Need a few publisher names. keep 'em coming Jerry from cbogart@ibm.net Thu Feb 13 18:31:07 1997 ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:31:04 -0600 ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 19:35:00 -0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: tonkin cane Grant Why don't you give Bob Milward a call - he lives in North VancouverB.C.and he can give you a wealth of info - Phone is (604) 985-0860 Chris from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Feb 13 19:29:58 1997 ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 19:29:56 -0600 Subject: Re: In a message dated 97-02-12 20:39:40 EST, you write: (More anyone) I may as well deal with this in one or two or three shots.Thanks again Jerry Jerry - "Fundamentals of Building a Bamboo Fly Rod", 1995, Gerorge Maurerand Bernard Elser.Regards,RTyree from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Feb 13 20:01:06 1997 ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:01:03 -0600 Subject: Casting for bass??? I just talked with Bob Nunley from oklahoma - he is asking if any couldshare any bait or spin casting tapers with him. If any can Bob can bereachedat the following address Bob Nunley 2320 CentralPlateau, Ok 74953 ThanksWayne from jsbond@inforamp.net Thu Feb 13 20:17:23 1997 UAA03368 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:17:22-0600 Subject: Re: tonkin cane Grant, Yes you are correct, tonkin cane is the only cane worth using. Most peoplepurchase their cane from Demarest in New Jersey or Tuxedo Cane inCalifornia. Send me a private note if you need addresses. The cane is cutinto 6 foot lengths and shipped UPS or 12 ft lengths shipped bycommercialcarrier. Most people order 3 or 4 culms to start. The cost for smallquantities is about 25-30 US dollars per 12 ft culm. Give me an e-mail if Ican help you out. JB At 23:56 12/02/97 -0800, you wrote:Hello I have recently become intereted in building a bamboo rod and have beentracking down all the info that is available on the net. This list serveis great for learning. The question that I have is where can I purchasetonkin cane. I live on Vancouver Island in the Province of BC, Canada. from what I have read so far tonkin cane is the only cane that the"good" rods are made from. Is that correct? -- *************************CHEERS...GRANT/DARCYHOME PAGE ************************** James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from jfoster@gte.net Thu Feb 13 20:46:51 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA05284 for; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:46:50 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id UAA09760 for; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:46:48 -0600 Subject: Re: books Thanks Richard Jerry from glock@seaside.net Thu Feb 13 21:40:12 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA09232 for; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:40:10 -0600 (router,SLMAILNT V2.2); Thu, 13 Feb 1997 19:38:32 Pacific StandardTime (206.87.90.32::mail daemon; unverified,SLMAILNT V2.2); Thu, 13 Feb1997 19:38:31 Pacific Standard Time Subject: Thanks Hi All ..... Thanks for the help in locating a source for tonkin cane.Has anyone tried using other cane to make their rods and if so how welldid they work? -- *************************CHEERS...GRANT/DARCYHOME PAGE ************************** from rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us Fri Feb 14 05:33:23 1997 FAA10100 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 05:33:21 -0600 Subject: re: Titebond.... NOT At 03:43 PM 2/13/97 +0800, you wrote:A neat glue job using resorcinol looks good (in some eyes anyhow). It has the effect of defining the hex shape and depending on the wraps colour and hardware used can look very effective. Tony Glue Comment: I hope we do not forget about the stuff called Resorcinol. I know itsugly but it works. John Zimny's research shows that resorcinol is stillthebest all around adhesive for rodmaking. If one is very carefull the darklines are almost unnoticable in blonde cane. I like the stuff...ugly linesor not.Ron Barch ps didn't someone oncwe write a song about never making a prettywoman yourwife. > /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ HURRAY FOR TONY! I like his thinking. Ron B. from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Fri Feb 14 05:58:38 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA10539 for; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 05:58:33 -0600 Fri, 14 Feb 1997 19:58:23 +0800 (WST) Subject: re: Titebond.... NOT At 03:43 PM 2/13/97 +0800, you wrote:A neat glue job using resorcinol looks good (in some eyes anyhow). It has the effect of defining the hex shape and depending on the wraps colour and hardware used can look very effective. Tony Glue Comment: I hope we do not forget about the stuff called Resorcinol. I knowitsugly but it works. John Zimny's research shows that resorcinol isstill thebest all around adhesive for rodmaking. If one is very carefull thedarklines are almost unnoticable in blonde cane. I like the stuff...uglylinesor not.Ron Barch ps didn't someone oncwe write a song about never making a prettywoman yourwife. > HURRAY FOR TONY! I like his thinking. Ron B. I've been thinking more about this glue question and I can see some possible problems arising regarding future rodmakers and refinishers.If PVA/Aliphatic resin glues fail at temps considerably lower than UF, Resicinol, epoxy do you for-see a situation where rodfinishing will become problematical because of the question of not being able to refinishers of rods made early this century? If that is so, (assuming the PVA glues do fail at lower temps, do they?) will this affect the intrinsic value of rods of this period. If this is a possibility would it be worth considering some method of indicating the glue used on the rod? Rods with red lines need not apply :-) *Please note* I definately do not intend any slight on Titebond or any other glue being used with success, as it's obvious there are plenty of extremly good, experienced rodmakers using it with no problems but reading the postings there seems to be a problem with heat. I'm just asking the question. (Taking cover) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Barry_Demmers@radian.com Fri Feb 14 07:37:45 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA13614 for; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 07:37:42 -0600 HAA15415 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 07:37:17 - (IMA Internet Exchange 2.03 (Beta 6) Enterprise) id 0004797C; Fri, 14Feb 97 07:37:43 -0600 Subject: subscribe listproc@wugate.wustl.edu subscribe rodmakers barry demmers from FFer4trout@aol.com Fri Feb 14 08:51:02 1997 ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:51:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Loose Ferrules In a message dated 97-02-13 15:17:58 EST, you write: Hi All,I have a few questions , please excuse me if they seem simple.Background - Recently picked up an old bamboo from a friend , 8' 5piece(1butt section , 2 for dry , 2 for wet) Custom built for an old gentleman byHeddon , no label but with only a signature "Spalding" wraps are yellowwithblack tipping , finish is clear , no yellowing , hazing or cracking, corkisclean like the day it was made , nickel silver slip ring reel seat andferrules . Would you believe it's straight ? Very well taken care of andstored carefully. Sound too good to be true? One minor flaw, theferrules areloose on two of the sections. Here's where I need advice , upon carefulremoval of the ferrule what adhesive should be used ? Will any two partrodbuilding apoxy suffice or low temp thermo-activated? Any ideas onmatchingthe yellow used on Heddon rod's , will Guderod Bright Yellow 8933 silk threadwork? The black tipping does not appear to be thread , a tape maybe ?Whatvarnish is prefered by you more experienced Rodmakers? Last but notleast, Iwas told that it is a 6-7 wt. rod , but looking at the red agite stripperguide (.150 in. I.D. ) that seems heavy.Your help would be greatlyappreciated when you have something nice and unique it should be doneright.(Of corse I could just by Wayne's books and do some reading)THX - Dewayne Davison If this is a Heddon built rod then I'd use threads that match the color'sHeddon used on their own rod models. Heddon used gold/blk threads onsomemodels. Gudeblod doesn't make a gold to match. Try Angler's Workshop(same asYLI brand-IMHO) for their silk thread # 78. But if just replacing one or twowraps then you could use what you have and then color the thread withartistpens to try to match the remaining old wraps. The black tippings should be black thread. Best book (where I got my info.) is Michael Sinclair's "Bamboo RodRestoration Handbook" @ $25.00 (US) ISBN #1-882418-11-5. The book'sfirstprinting is getting close to being sold out, so don't wait to order it. Any good quality spar varnish can be used to touch-up a rod, again IMHO. Sinclair goes into detail about restorations and repairs of cane rods. Lastly, before attempting to remove old Heddon ferrules find the pinholdingthe ferrule to the cane and remove it. Some will come out without effort,butmost are a pain-in-butt. I found that drilling them out was also a pain,Sinclair gives info on a 0.039" punch from a gun supply house (Brunnell's)that can be used drive the pin into the cane. This will allow the ferrule tobe removed. I've ordered it and it seems to work on many pins. You can use 5 minute epoxy to glue the ferrules back on, but the old timeglue used would be a normal ferrule stick glue. Don Burns PS - Use this url for more info. and to order Sinclair's book -- http://www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Feb 14 09:31:56 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA20540 for; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 09:31:54 -0600 Subject: Was - re: Titebond.NOT-now women At 06:33 14/02/97 -0500, you wrote:At 03:43 PM 2/13/97 +0800, you wrote:A neat glue job using resorcinol looks good (in some eyes anyhow). It has the effect of defining the hex shape and depending on the wraps colour and hardware used can look very effective. Tony Glue Comment: I hope we do not forget about the stuff called Resorcinol. I know itsugly but it works. John Zimny's research shows that resorcinol is stillthebest all around adhesive for rodmaking. If one is very carefull the darklines are almost unnoticable in blonde cane. I like the stuff...ugly linesor not.Ron Barch ps didn't someone oncwe write a song about never making a prettywoman yourwife. > /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ HURRAY FOR TONY! I like his thinking. Ron B. Tony/Ron You should alway marry an ugly one - if she takes off - who cares. Don from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Fri Feb 14 10:07:33 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA23142 for; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 10:07:33 -0600 CST Subject: re: Titebond.... NOT Don sayeth... And I hate to ask this, but how do you change the color? Back in December of 1995 Frank Setzer posted the follow: --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=I just got the new Garrison/Carmichael. Here is what is says: If you decide that you prefer the qualities of Resorcinol glue,but would rather not have the dark lines in the finished rod sections, you might try the following. Add a tip of a teaspoon'sworth of titanium dioxide, the additive that paint companies useas a basis for the color white, to the pot of mixed glue.Then add approximately a 1/4 of a teaspoon of inert mustardcolored powder (both can be found in art supply stores) to thesolution and mix thoroughly. The resulting color should be alight yellow-brown, and neither additive will hurt the bondingqualities of the Resorcinol. You might find that some of the pinkcolor returns in places where the rod has to be straightened byheat, because of oxidation, but I offer this good, but imperfectsolution, in these imperfect times. On p. 89, the quantity of glue being mixed is 2 oz., or 3 ozincluding alcohol. So I suppose these addditions are to a 2 ozglue base. I'm not sure how big a "tip of a teaspoon's worth" is. It reminds me of Mark Twain's recipe for ash cakes: A lot of flourand a lot of water and a quarter of a lot of salt...Frank Stetzer =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-= As John Zimny pointed out, Carmichael mentions that some of thepink color may return. Hope this helps... Mike - Pink Line Fever - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. ps: of course you could always do as Wayne did in making a rod from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Fri Feb 14 11:06:22 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA27501 for; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:06:21 -0600 Subject: Forms Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is I lost some of my saved messages and I was wondering if anyone still had the information on the form that were defective. Also, I couldn't seem to find the info on the fix for them that I recalled reading. If anyone could contact me with those two I would appreciate it very much. I am a college student and if those forms are repairable then it would be very cost effective :) Another question. What would happen if cane was left in the air and not glued or heat treated for a substantial period of time? I am asking because I am interested in starting to plane. Practising up and what not. I was figuring on buying a rough form from...oh I can't remember the name, but it was $65. That way I could try and get good at one aspect. I figured I would build a binder to bind the strips and practice sharpening, but I don't know what would happen left un treated or glued. Just a long drawn out question :) Jon from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Fri Feb 14 11:06:26 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA27518 for; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:06:24 -0600 Subject: Wraps Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is Does anyone know anything about Oliver Lathes. A guy I spoke with said that he had one that needed a new single stage motor. It had a 22" bed. He wanted 250, plus I needed to put the new motor in. Any comments. Jon from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Fri Feb 14 11:35:36 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA29786 for; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:35:35 -0600 CST Subject: Reminiscing Hello Everyone... I was doing a little list maintenance today and was reallysurprised to see that our little group has grown to almost300 subscribers! Wow!!! We've come a long way since startingthe list as a simple mail alias on my work account a coupleyears ago. This morning I was going through the archives on the RODMAKERSweb page, that Jerry Foster untiredly maintains, looking for thepiece on changing the color of Resorscinol. It really broughtback a whole lot memories of great conversations past. If anyof you have some spare time I whole-heartedly recommend pointingyour web browser to the RODMAKERS Homepage and browse throughsome of the archives. (http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm) in there from some of best professional and amatuer rodmakersin the business. Of course there is also stuff in there from thelike of me, so be forewarned!!! For those who have beenon the list a while...it's fun going through the messages recallingthe threads. I also want to take this opportunity to recommend to everyoneto try to get yourself to Grayling Michigan the weekend of June 20th for the RODMAKERS Gathering and Trout Bum Barbeque.You'll finally be able to put a face to those email addresses,learn alot about rodmaking, get some fishing in, and generallya little too much partying than is problably good for us! Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from m.boretti@agonet.it Fri Feb 14 12:08:39 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA01466 for; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:08:30 -0600 mago.agonet.it (8.8.0/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA21389 for; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 19:11:31 +0100 Subject: R: tonkin cane Dear Bond, ops James Bond,I am Interested in Tonkin cane, in Italy it's very difficult and expesevesto find these type of material.Please, send me information about your Tonkin cane.Sincerely,Marco Boretti MARCO BORETTIVia Boselli Bonini 1329100 Piacenza ( Italy )Ph. 0039.523.331084Fx. 0039.523.320088 ----------Da: James Bond A: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Data: venerdá 14 febbraio 1997 3.17 Grant, Yes you are correct, tonkin cane is the only cane worth using. Mostpeoplepurchase their cane from Demarest in New Jersey or Tuxedo Cane inCalifornia. Send me a private note if you need addresses. The cane is cutinto 6 foot lengths and shipped UPS or 12 ft lengths shipped bycommercialcarrier. Most people order 3 or 4 culms to start. The cost for smallquantities is about 25-30 US dollars per 12 ft culm. Give me an e-mail ifIcan help you out. JB At 23:56 12/02/97 -0800, you wrote:Hello I have recently become intereted in building a bamboo rod and have beentracking down all the info that is available on the net. This list serveis great for learning. The question that I have is where can I purchasetonkin cane. I live on Vancouver Island in the Province of BC, Canada. from what I have read so far tonkin cane is the only cane that the"good" rods are made from. Is that correct? -- *************************CHEERS...GRANT/DARCYHOME PAGE ************************** James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from m.boretti@agonet.it Fri Feb 14 12:32:03 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA02799 for; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:31:59 -0600 mago.agonet.it (8.8.0/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA22498; Fri, 14 Feb 199719:34:57 +0100 Subject: R: INFORMATION Dear Friends,I am interested to buy the But Cap and Slide band in perfect Garrisonstyle.Please, you can help me !!!Italian RodmakerMarco Boretti. ----------Da: Marco Boretti A: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Data: sabato 25 gennaio 1997 12.47 Dear fellow Rodmakers,I seek information about the Final Precision Cutter MillingMachine,Draw,Books,manuscript or name of the person who make these type of machine.Besides for those who want visit Italy,or exchange information aboutRodmaking Bamboo or Fly Fishing I can put my service at the disposal.MARCO BORETTIVia Boselli Bonini 1329100 Piacenza (Italy)Ph : 0039/523/331084Fx : 0039/523/320088 Sincerely,Marco Boretti. from GLohkamp@aol.com Fri Feb 14 14:21:51 1997 OAA09972 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:21:50 -0600 Subject: Re: Forms Jon have you considered wooden forms l have some freinds that really likethem.They are not hard to make and above all not costly . Check out jerry's webpage l belive he has some excellent instructions Gary from santiago@ricochet.net Fri Feb 14 14:44:05 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA11503 for; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:44:01 -0600 MAA00784 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:40:13 Organization: Home Subject: dickerson tapers? anyone out there with dickerson tapers? i am looking for the 8616. thanks, leo from d-deloach1@ti.com Fri Feb 14 14:52:11 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA11964 for; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:52:07 -0600 with ESMTP id OAA21829 for ; Fri, 14 Feb1997 14:52:02 -0600 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id OAA15869 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.8.3) with SMTP id CPUBCEBT; Fri,14 Feb 1997 14:51:31 -0600 (Central Standard Time) boundary="BeyondBoundary_1_Fri_Feb_14_14:51:27_1997__29" Subject: Re: getting started Conversation-Id: --BeyondBoundary_1_Fri_Feb_14_14:51:27_1997__29 All: Okay, I've gotten Wayne's book, read it and Bruce Conner's FAQ and all ofyourmessages for the past month or so, and you'd think I was ready. To be honest, I still feel unprepared to start making forms and buyingtoolsand cane and everything else--I'd like to watch someone at work, or at theveryleast see someone's shop and tools and talk to him about his methods. Does anyone on the list live in the Dallas (TX) area that would be willingtolet me bug them for a few hours one evening, watching over theirshoulder? I'dreally appreciate any volunteers. Anxiously Awaiting a Mentor,Don DeLoach --BeyondBoundary_1_Fri_Feb_14_14:51:27_1997__29 M96T@9F]R(&$@9F5W(&AO=7)S(&]N92!E=F5N:6YG+"!W871C:&EN9R!O=F5RM('1H96ER('-H;W5L9&5R/R!))V0@@ " \!!0 ! !0!4@$ !,_P M ) ! !#;W5R:65R($YE=P M !,_P ) ! 0 !#;W5R:65R($YE=P M ! $ !0 ! 8 !@ ! @$!M 'L!>P$! 'P!.P(! #P"/ (! #T"60(! %H"9@( !D %(M P&0!@'8"0$@#0%H$ &P$P'X%@% &@&('0'0( $8) %@)P&H*@'P+0 $ M "@ # 1G)O;2!!9V5N= $ 0 M $ & 071T86-H;65N="!#;W5N'= 0 end --BeyondBoundary_1_Fri_Feb_14_14:51:27_1997__29-- from whensel@ix.netcom.com Fri Feb 14 17:24:26 1997 ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Comming Full Circle I came out of a state of semi consciousness that follows a day dream. The ego was attempting to grasp a feeling, a need that had been covered up by the classical thinking that surrounds all humans during adult years. This feeling then became memory that begat "idea". I had a strong recollection of catching my first sun fish with a bamboo fly rod as a kid in a gravel pit in maryland some 34 years ago. I felt the cast and the feel of the hexagon in my small hands. The sensation started shattering through to my consciousness, a product of my unconscious mind that wanted me to have awareness. Then as quickly as the memory appeared it faded away into the recesses of my mind.Aweek or two later I developed the idea of building my own fly rod. The journey had begun with a firm aspiration that lead me and pulled me into a yearning for the information that I would need to build a Bamboo fly rod.You see, I broke the first fly rod rod in a bicycle accident and it left a void in my life and evidently the little boy in me was screaming to me to trace my steps back in time so I could shake hands with him once again. He was such a nice little guy full of love and excitment for life. But I believe he had become loney because I had left him for many years.October 31 of 1996 I would join the Rod Makers list on the Internet in hopes that I might find vital infomation that would lead down the path I knew I had to take. I owed this much to my little friend. I had let him down so many times as I stumbled through adult life. His screams were met with deft ears of a man trying to search out the mysteries of life.As I planned the first rod, throught forms entered my head. Throughts of grasping the rod and feeling the nature of its form. I wondered what it would be like to cast my own hand made rod over water and into the universe of trout. this wondering increased with everyday od building the rod.Yesterday the 13th my rod was finished. Written on its shaft was Bill Hensel - Rod Maker. Today on valentines day I took the rod to the water and fished with it for hours. Its cast was, like no other I have felt. The touch of the hexagon form moved from my fingers into my brain and will be etched in my memory for ever. It was a day that was calm, not flooded with excitment. it was a cold day on the stream but I felt like a little friend was with me. He was smiling and he said in a wispered voice " I am glad you came back to me welcome home". Bill Hensel from JCZIMNY@dol.net Fri Feb 14 20:41:35 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA00994 for ;Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:41:33 -0600 Subject: Re: Wraps Jon Lintvet wrote: Does anyone know anything about Oliver Lathes. A guy I spoke withsaid that he had one that needed a new single stage motor. It had a22" bed. He wanted 250, plus I needed to put the new motor in. Anycomments. JonJon That's probably a wood lathe. Olivers are of very fine quality. Check to see that the ways are good and the morse sockets are not worn too much. You can easily replace the motor with a good used one. $250 is a good price if the above is ok.John from jaquin@netsync.net Fri Feb 14 20:52:27 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA01571 for; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:52:26 -0600 quartz.netsync.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA04117 for; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 21:52:26 -0500 Subject: Re: getting started Don DeLoach wrote: All: Okay, I've gotten Wayne's book, read it and Bruce Conner's FAQ and all ofyourmessages for the past month or so, and you'd think I was ready. To be honest, I still feel unprepared to start making forms and buyingtoolsand cane and everything else--I'd like to watch someone at work, or atthe veryleast see someone's shop and tools and talk to him about his methods. Does anyone on the list live in the Dallas (TX) area that would be willingtolet me bug them for a few hours one evening, watching over theirshoulder? I'dreally appreciate any volunteers. Anxiously Awaiting a Mentor,Don DeLoach --------------------------------------------------------------- Name: ATTRIBS.BNDPart 1.2 Type: unspecified type (application/octet- stream)Encoding: X-UUENCODEi am also looking ofr a rod maker in the western new york area to mentorme. any help in that regards would be greatly appreciated. from santiago@ricochet.net Fri Feb 14 22:58:31 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA05827 for; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:58:29 -0600 UAA06069 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:56:19 - Organization: Home Subject: J.C. Bogeman phone # or address? looking through old postings i came across J.C. Bogeman for lathes. does anyone have an address or phone number? thanks for the help, leo from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Fri Feb 14 22:58:32 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA05832 for; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:58:31 -0600 Subject: Frank Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is If frank is around would you please e-mail me with some information... If not, could someone please e-mail me his e-mail address? Thanks everyone. Jon from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Sat Feb 15 09:57:20 1997 JAA05914 for ; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 09:57:18-0600 mtigwc02.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA14972 +0000 Subject: Re: Comming Full Circle William Hensel wrote: I came out of a state of semi consciousness that follows a daydream. The ego was attempting to grasp a feeling, a need that had beencovered up by the classical thinking that surrounds all humans duringadult years. This feeling then became memory that begat "idea". Ihad a strong recollection of catching my first sun fish with a bamboofly rod as a kid in a gravel pit in maryland some 34 years ago. I feltthe cast and the feel of the hexagon in my small hands. The sensationstarted shattering through to my consciousness, a product of myunconscious mind that wanted me to have awareness. Then as quickly asthe memory appeared it faded away into the recesses of my mind.Aweek or two later I developed the idea of building my own flyrod. The journey had begun with a firm aspiration that lead me andpulled me into a yearning for the information that I would need tobuild a Bamboo fly rod.You see, I broke the first fly rod rod in a bicycle accident andit left a void in my life and evidently the little boy in me wasscreaming to me to trace my steps back in time so I could shake handswith him once again. He was such a nice little guy full of love andexcitment for life. But I believe he had become loney because I hadleft him for many years.October 31 of 1996 I would join the Rod Makers list on theInternet in hopes that I might find vital infomation that would leaddown the path I knew I had to take. I owed this much to my littlefriend. I had let him down so many times as I stumbled through adultlife. His screams were met with deft ears of a man trying to searchout the mysteries of life.As I planned the first rod, throught forms entered my head.Throughts of grasping the rod and feeling the nature of its form. Iwondered what it would be like to cast my own hand made rod overwaterand into the universe of trout. this wondering increased with everydayod building the rod.Yesterday the 13th my rod was finished. Written on its shaft wasBill Hensel - Rod Maker. Today on valentines day I took the rod to thewater and fished with it for hours. Its cast was, like no other I havefelt. The touch of the hexagon form moved from my fingers into mybrain and will be etched in my memory for ever. It was a day that wascalm, not flooded with excitment. it was a cold day on the stream butI felt like a little friend was with me. He was smiling and he said ina wispered voice " I am glad you came back to me welcome home". Bill Hensel Thank you, Bill. You have rather eloquently put into words what Ibelieve so many of us feel. This sport was never about catching fish.It's about exploration. Of the water, of the land, and of the self. Ed Estlow from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Sat Feb 15 11:11:26 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA08284 for; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 11:11:21 -0600 ; Subject: Re: Wraps Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is Thanks for the info. I want a lathe to turn grips and ferrule stations...any other ideas. Jon On 14 Feb 97 at 21:29, John Zimny wrote: Jon Lintvet wrote: Does anyone know anything about Oliver Lathes. A guy I spokewithsaid that he had one that needed a new single stage motor. It had a22" bed. He wanted 250, plus I needed to put the new motor in. Anycomments. JonJon That's probably a wood lathe. Olivers are of very fine quality. Check to see that the ways are good and the morse sockets are not worn too much. You can easily replace the motor with a good used one. $250 is a good price if the above is ok.John from rmoon@dns.ida.net Sat Feb 15 14:36:45 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA13377 for ;Sat, 15 Feb 1997 14:36:44 - 0600 Subject: Re: Thanks At 07:44 PM 2/13/97 -0800, you wrote:Hi All ..... Thanks for the help in locating a source for tonkin cane.Has anyone tried using other cane to make their rods and if so how welldid they work? -- *************************CHEERS...GRANT/DARCYHOME PAGE ************************** I just last week spent a coouple of hours with Walton Powell, and one ofthings we talked about was this very thing. Walt claims, and I have noreason to question a rodmaker of such statur, that there are manydifferentvarieties of cane that are suitable for building rods. We did not get intoactual varieties, since locating a good source might be even more of aproblem that getting good tonkin. He did talk about a giant Japonesebamboothat was ( I am not dead sure of this) 8-10 inches in diameter, and somethirty inches between nodes. He made a few three piece rods from thiscaneand indicated that it was supeior to Tonkin. Imagine a nodeless rodwithout a splice. When I was Curator of the IFFC Musem in WestYellowstone,we had a donation of a rod from a Mr. Urano in Tokyo. The rod was madefroma Japonese bamboo that Urano said had been rigorously tested andcomparedwith Tonkin at the University of Tokyo and found superior in all areas. Ican attest that it was one of the most beautiful bamboos I have ever seen.The color was like that of fine ivory. Very White. The rod was built to aGarrison taper and was a lovely example of rod making. You can see it atthe museum in Livingston. Ralph Moon from sats@gte.net Sat Feb 15 14:45:03 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA13534 for; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 14:45:02 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id OAA15505 for; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 14:45:01 -0600 Subject: Back again. Marco Boretti wrote: Well, I'm back. At least for a while. I've been busy "Re-building" two rods. I call it re-building because I'm not building from the ground up but when Iget through with the project, I'll have a different rod then I started with. Restoring means to bring back to the originalReplace all parts that can not be cleande with original parts.Repairing means to fix somthing that's broke.Replace broak parts.Refurbish means to bring up to modern standards.Replace parts with new or different parts. In all cases the rod stays clost to it's original self. But when I say rebuilding, I mean I've taken the rod sections down to thebare cane and modified the size. (This a dangerous thing to do, I know. But I'm doing itanyway.) I got into this because there are a ton of bamboo parts floating aroundwithout a homeand most of them go to rods that aren't worth saving. Terry KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl sats@gte.net from rmoon@dns.ida.net Sat Feb 15 14:47:44 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA13617 for ;Sat, 15 Feb 1997 14:47:42 - 0600 Subject: Re: Reminiscing Mike Let me commend you and congratulate you on one of the most signicantboostto cane rod building. Of course, and I think you would agree, first honorsgo to Garrison and Carmichael, and Second to Wayne who broughtrodbuildingout of the clouds and down to earch. Certainly if there ever comes thetimewe have a shrine to modern cane rod building all four of you deserve to beenshrined therein. Hey, I think that Bruce Conners might also be acnadidate for his wonderful FAQ Thanks Ralph from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Sat Feb 15 15:08:23 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA14450 for; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 15:08:22 -0600 Subject: Lathes Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is Ok so here is the question. What requirements are necessary for bamboo work. I had some leads but I do not know what I should be asking for or looking for. Does anyone know of a maker in the New York, central area? I am in Ithaca NY and would love to meet, and talk with someone that is already doing this. Jon from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Feb 16 07:51:34 1997 ; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 07:51:32 -0600 Subject: Re: Thanks Hello Ralph-- You wrote: He did talk about a giant Japonese bamboothat was ( I am not dead sure of this) 8-10 inches in >diameter, andsomethirty inches between nodes. He made a few three piece rods > from thiscaneand indicated that it was supeior to Tonkin. Interesting that you mention this Bamboo. I read an article about a Zenmaster who teaches Japanese traditional archery in this area. They makethebows from cane that sounds very much like what you describe. I wouldlove tofind a hunk of it, but have no idea how to go about it. I think there is apassage in Lambuth's book in which he says that canes other than Tonkinwererejected for rodbuilding, some because of poor power fiber, but othersbecause of unworkable nodes. This would not be a problem with today'sgluesand splicing techniques. We probably should be re-examining this wholearea.---Tom Smithwick from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Sun Feb 16 07:55:23 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA21607 for; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 07:55:22 -0600 Subject: Re: Lathes Feb 15, 97 04:04:51 pm Jon, All you really need the lathe for is 1) turning the ferrule stations tofit the ferrules, 2) turning cork grips, and 3) (perhaps) making your ownreelseat spacers. A wood lathe fitted with a three-jaw chuck is enough forallthese things. YOu need the 3-jaw chuck because you need to mount theblankthrough the headstock with just a few inches of the butt end sticking outofthe chuck. The 3-jaw chuck does this. Grizzly imports sells them forabout$100 including shipping and the adapter necessary to get it on thethreadedspindle of a wook lathe. Unfortunately, you are not out of the woods yet,though. The one I ordered was nicely made, but the jaws wouldn't quite fittogetherclose enough to grip the .170" section I was building when I bought it. SO:either you have to get the jaws milled or file them yourself. The millingwasabout $40, and I decided on that because if unequal amounts of materialwereremoved the whole chuck might not balance at high speed. I'm not sure howmucha problem this would be, and I'm sure you could come close enough withcare andlots of careful layout and frequent measurement. (You could even weigheachjaw before and keep the final weights analogous.) Or you could pay the$40. There are other fixes like soldering shim onto the jaw faces or makingsomekind of hex-shaped collar to fit on the blank before you place it in thechuck. Whatever method you settle on needs to center the blankaccurately.. Anyway, the woodlathe with the chuck has worked well. I suppose theonlylimitation is that you couldn't make your own nickle or aluminumhardware. Hope that helps,let me know if you have further questions: I may be able to answer.--Mark M. Freed, Ph.DDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Feb 16 09:08:32 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA23706 for; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 09:08:30 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA16800 for; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 10:07:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Lathes Woodcraft's new catalog has the Nova Chuc on sale through March 31 for$99.99. You may need the small jaw set to securely grip the butsection, or you could doubtlessly rig something up and save 30 bucks.And no I don't work for these guys, I just get a bazillion catalogs (amI the only one??). FWIW Brian from rmoon@dns.ida.net Sun Feb 16 10:23:48 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26310 for ;Sun, 16 Feb 1997 10:23:47 - 0600 Subject: Re: Thanks Your reply: I think there is apassage in Lambuth's book in which he says that canes other than Tonkinwererejected for rodbuilding, some because of poor power fiber, but othersbecause of unworkable nodes. This would not be a problem with today'sgluesand splicing techniques. We probably should be re-examining this wholearea.---Tom Smithwick Tom I agree, I will make an effort to see what can be done. I have a friendwho flies regularly to Japan and I'll see if she can do a little leg work It might be of interest to you that a couple of weeks ago I lucked into averitable treasure trove. I was given a small chest about 5"x 5" x 5'which containted a quantity of Greenheart staves ranging from 1/4"square toabout 1 1/2" square all about 5' long. They were from a rod maker wholivedin the 19th century. The wood was wrapped in newspapers dated 1902 andfromthe dust an aging had never been disturbed since that time. Next project a14' 11" Greenheart. I think the weight will be light only about 2 poundsfinished Ralph from jimholm@itsnet.com Sun Feb 16 10:59:23 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA28251 for; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 10:59:20 -0600 scratchy.itsnet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA14418 for Subject: Re: Thanks Ralph, I have some Japanese associates coming to visit in April. I couldaskthem to check on the Japanese bamboo if it would be helpful. I am new tothelisting so I don't have the background or specifics of the type of bambooyou're discussing. from 76250.1771@CompuServe.COM Sun Feb 16 12:26:09 1997 MAA01684 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 12:26:08-0600 Subject: It's Show Time! Wayne-When is the Southfield show?Dennis from FFer4trout@aol.com Sun Feb 16 12:31:52 1997 ; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 12:31:51 -0600 Subject: Re: Thanks In a message dated 97-02-15 15:38:57 EST, you write: At 07:44 PM 2/13/97 -0800, you wrote:Hi All ..... Thanks for the help in locating a source for tonkin cane.Has anyone tried using other cane to make their rods and if so how welldid they work? -- *************************CHEERS...GRANT/DARCYHOME PAGEe of hours with Walton Powell, and one ofthings we talked about was this very thing. Walt claims, and I have noreason to question a rodmaker of such statur, that there are manydifferentvarieties of cane that are suitable for building rods. We did not getintoactual varieties, since locating a good source might be even more of aproblem that getting good tonkin. He did talk about a giant Japonesebamboothat was ( I am not dead sure of this) 8-10 inches in diameter, andsomethirty inches between nodes. He made a few three piece rods from thiscaneand indicated that it was supeior to Tonkin. Imagine a nodeless rodwithout a splice. When I was Curator of the IFFC Musem in WestYellowstone,we had a donation of a rod from a Mr. Urano in Tokyo. The rod was madefroma Japonese bamboo that Urano said had been rigorously tested andcomparedwith Tonkin at the University of Tokyo and found superior in all areas. Ican attest that it was one of the most beautiful bamboos I have everseen.The color was like that of fine ivory. Very White. The rod was built toaGarrison taper and was a lovely example of rod making. You can see itatthe museum in Livingston. Ralph Moon Ralph, I wonder what this bamboo is imported to the USA? Also what the costwouldbe? I remember pulling into the harbor at Kobe, Japan back in 1970 (Navy days)and marveling at the bamboo scafolding surrounding a supertankerundergoingconstruction. It (scafolding) must've been been as high as 5 or 6 stories. I also remember (vaguely after many Kirin beers) buying one of the world'sworst bamboo rods at a small shop in a different Japanese port later onthatcruise. Must be made from a different bamboo? The biggest problem wasthatthe workmanship was even poorer that the worst H-I or Montague rods. It's all in the labor isn't it. Don B. from rmoon@dns.ida.net Sun Feb 16 14:23:50 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA05491 for ;Sun, 16 Feb 1997 14:23:48 - 0600 Subject: Re: Thanks At 10:00 AM 2/16/97 -0700, you wrote:Ralph, I have some Japanese associates coming to visit in April. I couldaskthem to check on the Japanese bamboo if it would be helpful. I am new tothelisting so I don't have the background or specifics of the type of bambooyou're discussing. Jim, I am not all that sure that I'd know a great deal more than you aboutwhere to start. I expect that everything for most of us boils down to theexpense and difficulty of getting bamboo shipped to the US. Perhaps yourJaponese associates might know something of duties, import restrictions,andmodes of shipment and costs. I really think that if anything is going to beavailable to US rodmakers it is almost certainly going to have to becompetative with Tonkin. Ralph from rmoon@dns.ida.net Sun Feb 16 14:27:52 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA05728 for ;Sun, 16 Feb 1997 14:27:50 - 0600 Subject: Re: Thanks I wonder what this bamboo is imported to the USA? Also what the costwouldbe? I remember pulling into the harbor at Kobe, Japan back in 1970 (Navydays)and marveling at the bamboo scafolding surrounding a supertankerundergoingconstruction. It (scafolding) must've been been as high as 5 or 6 stories. I also remember (vaguely after many Kirin beers) buying one of theworld'sworst bamboo rods at a small shop in a different Japanese port later onthatcruise. Must be made from a different bamboo? The biggest problem wasthatthe workmanship was even poorer that the worst H-I or Montague rods. It's all in the labor isn't it. Don B. Don I think that the whole issue raises some pertinent questions. Iwonderdo we have and Japonese rod makers on the list? Might be the way to go. Ralph from billdh@concentric.net Sun Feb 16 15:29:54 1997 PAA07718 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 15:29:53-0600 [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Organization: Terrier Technology Subject: Alternative Bamboos Someday, when you have all the glue off your fingers, and can type on your keybard without getting stuck fast, try the following link: nabalu.flas.ufl.edu/stinger/bamboo.html This is the homepage of a fellow who does bamboo research. This page also includes a number of links to other bamboo sites. There are humdreds and hundreds of kinds of bamboo out there, including a goodly number of North, Central and South American species. Just glancing over the listings I notice that most varieties are just too small, but there are still quite a few big ones. I will post further if and when I come up with anything I think is interesting. ****************************************************************** -\ /\/\ Bill, the Troublesome Terrier \_______|\mm Terrier Technology / /\ \_\ billdh@concentric.net / ___ / \/_/ (Terrier wears NOMEX flight suit while on net!) |_| | ||__|| B+T^3 "I am my own dog. These others are just friends." (in reply to one who asked,"Are these your dogs?") ****************************************************************** from cbogart@ibm.net Sun Feb 16 17:47:11 1997 ; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:47:10 -0600 SAA10347 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 18:51:41-0500 Priority: Normal Subject: More Books Jerry Here is two more I have The Angler's Workshop Vol 1. Rodmaking by Perry D. Frazier 1908 (1st edition) Wes Jordan - Profile of a Rodmaker By Dick Spurr and Gloria Jordan 1992 Chris from cbogart@ibm.net Sun Feb 16 17:57:19 1997 ; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:57:18 -0600 TAA10430 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 19:01:51-0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Rodmakers Homepage has lots of good information and links for everyone in one place. Keep up the good work. Chris from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Feb 16 20:30:29 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA18208 for; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 20:30:24 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA25674 for; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 21:28:57 -0500 Subject: Waynes 7942 Hiya - Just looked at the newly revised web page, outstanding! Especiallythepicture of Wayne under "rodmakers page." ;^) But to my question, what do the little squigglies mean at the end of thestress curve graph on Wayne's 7942 rod? Looks like Harmonics. I am very new to this, and come from a strong liberal arts background(mostly to avoid math like I'm seeing now!), so am having troubleinterpreting these darn things. Maybe an hour on rod math at Grayrockwould be a good thing. I'll bring the scotch. (Maybe I'll understandbetter from a different plane of reality.) Brian > from bootstrap@earthlink.net Sun Feb 16 22:06:25 1997 WAA21193 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 22:06:23-0600 UAA03266 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 20:06:16 Subject: Re: Forms Hi, Jon. I'm the guy who had the defective forms. They're all gone. Infact, they were gone early the next morning after the word went out.Sorry.Frank in Colorado from bootstrap@earthlink.net Sun Feb 16 22:09:12 1997 WAA21244 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 22:09:10-0600 UAA03552 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 20:08:56 Subject: Re: Wraps Buy the lathe. If it needs a motor, buy a motor. It's a good deal at thatprice. Just make sure it is a metal turning lathe and has a chuck with it.Frank in colorado from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Mon Feb 17 00:01:21 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA25354 for; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 00:01:20 -0600 Subject: Potomac.... Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is I know I have asked if anyone knows someone build rods in Ithaca NY, but I will be in Potomac MD over the summer and would love to hook up with someone if they had the time and patience. I would like to get my hands on a set of used forms that are in good enough condition to learn on. Even if they were only the rough forms. I would hope that be decent at planing. Just drop me a note if anyone has any leads. Thanks! Jon Lintvet from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Feb 17 08:27:02 1997 ; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:27:00 -0600 Subject: Re: It's Show Time! Dennis -The Southfield Fly Fishing Expo is March 8 - 9 --- Don't forget June 20- 21 in Grayling - Come early if you can - I'll also be down your way atthe Fly Rod & Reel Show at Navy Pier on March 22 - 23 - - Dinner???? Wayne from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Mon Feb 17 09:24:39 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA24478 for; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:24:38 -0600 CST Subject: Re: Reminiscing Ralph seez... Let me commend you and congratulate you on one of the most signicantboostto cane rod building. Of course, and I think you would agree, first honorsgo to Garrison and Carmichael, and Second to Wayne who broughtrodbuildingout of the clouds and down to earch. Certainly if there ever comes thetimewe have a shrine to modern cane rod building all four of you deserve to beenshrined therein. Hey, I think that Bruce Conners might also be acnadidate for his wonderful FAQ Thanks Ralph, but if the truth be known, we also owe Wayne Cattanachfurther thanks. For it was really his encouragement that brought theRODMAKERS list into being. A little history... When I first decided to stop 'thinking' about making a rod, and getoff my butt to do something about it, my first purchase was Wayne'sbook. Upon reading the book, I KNEW it was something I wanted todo, and more importantly, the way the book was written I knew it wassomething I COULD do. About the same time I happened to see an unrelated post on theFLYFISH listserv from Wayne. Having a question or two, I imposedmyself upon Wayne for help. Then, as to this day...as well as I amsure a lot of you have also discovered...he was most helpful andencouraging. After several rounds of email, I thought it would be great to havean email list so that others could benefit from the help of folkslike Wayne who were always so willing to help, and to generally beable to talk about this stuff whenever we wanted. I was initiallya little apprehensive about just throwing a list out there so Ipresented the idea to Wayne. Well after a few more emails back andforth, the rest as the say is history... I would like to take this opportunity to publically say thanks toall the folks on this list, who like Wayne are always willing to helpand encourage me to continue to strive for that 'perfect rod' Thanks... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from m.boretti@agonet.it Mon Feb 17 10:30:19 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA28557 for; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 10:30:15 -0600 mago.agonet.it (8.8.0/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA29216 for; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:33:35 +0100 Subject: R: Tapers Dear Gary,Excuse me, but a great of circumstances have prevented me reply soonesttoyou E-mail message Taper Exchange.I work many houers per day, and I hope to finish charge the date in mycomputer about from 15 / 20 days.When the tapers are ready I send immediatly to you, with pictures of myflyrods.Sincerely,Marco. ----------Da: GLohkamp@aol.comA: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Data: sabato 8 febbraio 1997 8.36 Bill Thanks for the information l would like to know more about these pcprograms , l know that hex rod and rod maker won't work the taperbackwardsyou got to know what the curve is to start with. l know that the curvesthatl made working the math backwards produced curves that were notusable.Theywere up and down on my chart not a nice curve at all. Garrison tapers are pretty straight but not an even reduction of taperatone 5 in station you may have a .010 difference the next .007 the next.014.008 l know that this is because Garrison used stress curves to plot histapers . l've found that the garrison tapers to make fine rods but theyare alittle to slow for me . What l've been doing is to start with a buttdia.and evenly reduce the taper by .014 per 5in station . lf needed l'll beefupthe tip to .065 -.070 depending on the line weight, some adjustment maybeneeded at the ferrule sation too but l base the taper on this .l like the results l think it could be possible to carry this out to 5ft sections and thencutthem back to make many different rod lenghts and weights depending onwhereyou cut the sections.Tell me what you think guys is there something wrong with this ? Thanks Gary from m.boretti@agonet.it Mon Feb 17 10:47:41 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA29494 for; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 10:47:37 -0600 mago.agonet.it (8.8.0/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA30608 for; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:50:51 +0100 Subject: R: Forms Dear Mr. Armbuster,Its Very difficult for me connected with you internet home page, please, ifit's possible send me your catalog concerning Tools for making bamboo flyrods.Sincerely,Marco Boretti. MARCO BORETTIVia Biselli Bonini 1329100 Piacenza ( Italy ) ----------Da: Franz O. Armbruster A: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Data: lunedá 17 febbraio 1997 5.06 Hi, Jon. I'm the guy who had the defective forms. They're all gone. Infact, they were gone early the next morning after the word went out.Sorry.Frank in Colorado from angel@atlantis.neu.sgi.com Mon Feb 17 11:20:36 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA01834 for; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:20:31 -0600 18:20:29 +0100 (MET) (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI) SAA23674; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 18:20:28 +0100 18:20:28 +0100 Subject: Tonkin cane wanted !!! Hello While in USA they are talking about which bamboo to use, In Europe I haveamain problem to solve: Where can i found Tonkin cane in Europe. For the moment the nearest placeseemsto be Sweden. I'm sure that I can find something in France, Germany orEngland. Is there any European list member that can help me to solve thisproblem??? Thanks for your help. Angel -- ___________________________________________________________________________ _________* (______________________Angel Contreras \ email: angel@neu.sgi.com Silicon Graphics Desktop Software Coordinator\ vmail: 56758 ch. des Rochettes 2European I/S \ tel: +41-32-8433600 CH-2016 Cortaillodo> fax: +41-32-8433909 Switzerland/| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~((()))~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~((()))~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Feb 17 16:22:49 1997 ; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:22:47 -0600 Subject: Re: Reminiscing I too would like to thank Mike for all his efforts of the past two yearsto keep us all connected. And I would also like to extend that thanks toJerry and the others that have put forth the effort to archive and promotethe cause. I think that all have been surprised at the growth thatrodmakershas seen in that short time.I was finally able to meet Hoagy C. a few weeks ago at Somerset. BarryS.had told me that he was going to be there so I came prepared with my copyofhis book. We had a great meeting - a wonderful person - he personalizedourbooks and we talked rods. You see we all have heros. I still think that hewas a little bit shocked though when Lyndi pulled out one of her rods toshowhim.I would agree with Ralph that he is still the groups biggest influence thoughts ---- but I feel that there are many, Himself included, that haveadded greatly to advance the information about rod making.The best example I can give is this. I'm sure that each of us at one timeor another have hide ourselves away in a secret spot and transportedourselves to become part of the words that we were reading - We werethe onethat had slain the dragon and rescued the princess.Several times over the past few years I have found myself magicallywatching a scene and thinking that I was there just as a visitor. Thisweekend I watched a mat sold a rod - talking to his client at the castingpond - telling him of the features and benefits of the rod that he had made-showing how the rod cast. It was as if I were reading a good novel and hadbecome a visitor to some imaginary world apart from my own. But the realworld was just unfolding before me and at times it's an unusual feeling.Perhpas dreams do come true.My wife and I have talked about it and the conversations always endwiththe hope that in the end I will be the same person as when it all started. Ijust wanted to make a rod to go fishing with Wayne from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Mon Feb 17 16:28:08 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA19406 for; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:28:04 -0600 Subject: Re: It's Show Time! Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is Where can someone find out about all the shows or get togethers and where they are. I would love the chance to meet everyone and talk with people that know alot more than me. Jon On 17 Feb 97 at 9:27, WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Dennis -The Southfield Fly Fishing Expo is March 8 - 9 --- Don't forget June20- 21 in Grayling - Come early if you can - I'll also be down your way atthe Fly Rod & Reel Show at Navy Pier on March 22 - 23 - - Dinner???? Wayne from d-deloach1@ti.com Mon Feb 17 16:45:52 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA20696 for; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:45:48 -0600 with ESMTP id QAA04407 for ; Mon, 17 Feb1997 16:45:47 -0600 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id QAA02197 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.8.3) with SMTP id VEWUBLAA; Mon,17 Feb 1997 16:45:14 -0600 (Central Standard Time) Subject: do you really NEED a lathe? Conversation-Id: If I'm planning on buying all the components (eg real seal/spacer, corkgrip,ferrules, etc) what do I need a lathe for? The blank doesn't need to beturnedon a lathe just for fitting the ferrules, does it (it seems as though thiscanbe done by hand??). Don from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Feb 17 17:25:04 1997 ; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:25:03 -0600 Subject: Re: It's Show Time! Jon & Others shows that some of us attend and there are a couple of get togethers eachyear just for those interested in bamboo rod making. The list I have is asfollows - I hope some others will step in to fill in the blanks that I left. Shows March 1 West Michigan Trout Unlimited - East Kentwood HSMarch 8 - 9 Southfield Fly Fishing Expo - Southfield, MIMarch 21-23 Fly Rod & Reel - Navey Pier - Chicago, ILAug 4-10 International FFF Conclave - Grand Rapids, MI Get to GethersApril 12 NW rod makers meet - Troutdale,OR May 30-31 Ontario Rodmakers - Fergus, ONTJune 20-21Grayrock 97 - Grayling, MI (unoffically June 14-21)Sept 6-7 Catskills - Livingston Manor, NY If you are looking for more details on a particular event - some one here(ie Ron Barch) can get you a contact for that Wayne from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Mon Feb 17 17:35:30 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA23779 for; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:35:28 -0600 Subject: Plane's Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is Does anyone have any ideas on locating a plane other than buying one new? Just a question. Jon Lintvet from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Mon Feb 17 17:59:12 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA24717 for; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:59:08 -0600 Tue, 18 Feb 1997 07:59:04 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: do you really NEED a lathe? On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Don DeLoach wrote: If I'm planning on buying all the components (eg real seal/spacer, corkgrip,ferrules, etc) what do I need a lathe for? The blank doesn't need to beturnedon a lathe just for fitting the ferrules, does it (it seems as though thiscanbe done by hand??). Don No, you don't *need* a lathe to fit ferrules, but the difference in the quality of fit is noticeable. It's harder than you at first think to file the shaft round in a way that the ferrule dosn't slope a little when fitted.If you're very careful though it can (of course) be done by hand. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from rmoon@dns.ida.net Mon Feb 17 17:59:58 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA24764 for ;Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:59:54 - 0600 Subject: Re: Plane's JonI would suggest that you will be better off buying a new Stanley 9 1/2 rather than try to find a second hand one. The search will be time consuming and you may run into a dog and have no recourse. You can get somewhere about $45. Somebody mentioned an ever lower price a week orso back, so look around. from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Feb 17 20:20:00 1997 ; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 20:19:58 -0600 Subject: Poster II well the first try didn't work - the listproc won't pass files larger than64k - so I shrank the poster in coreldraw and am trying it again - pleasetell me what you think Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Feb 17 20:32:54 1997 ; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 20:32:53 -0600 Subject: Poster III from Fquinchat@aol.com Mon Feb 17 22:13:23 1997 ; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 22:13:22 -0600 Subject: Re: dickerson tapers? Alex WolffBoyne Falls, MI 49713 Dennis from plipton@sunvalley.net Mon Feb 17 22:16:35 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA04666 for; Mon, 17 Feb 1997 22:16:31 -0600 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with SMTP id AAA327 0700 Organization: Sun Valley Rods Subject: Re: Plane's Jon: There are two styles of the Stanley plane. I like the one that advancesthe blade with a large thumb screw. It is harder to adjust the depth ofcut with the style that raise a lever that drives the blade deeper. Youshould also think about buying a Hock blade to replace the blade thatcomes with the plane. See Wayne's book for a complete discussion. Jon Lintvet wrote: Does anyone have any ideas on locating a plane other than buying onenew? Just a question. Jon Lintvet -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Philip Lipton PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208-726- 0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from JCZIMNY@dol.net Mon Feb 17 23:41:39 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA08314 for ;Mon, 17 Feb 1997 23:41:38 - 0600 Subject: Re: Plane's Philip Lipton wrote: Jon: There are two styles of the Stanley plane. I like the one that advancesthe blade with a large thumb screw. It is harder to adjust the depth ofcut with the style that raise a lever that drives the blade deeper. Youshould also think about buying a Hock blade to replace the blade thatcomes with the plane. See Wayne's book for a complete discussion. Jon Lintvet wrote: Does anyone have any ideas on locating a plane other than buying onenew? Just a question. Jon Lintvet -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208-726- 0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Phil,I write this most wistfully. Why can we not have small plane with anorris- type adjuster (screw micrometer) and a real chip breaker. Perhaps then we would have fewertear-outs and more control over chip size. Who will make such an implement.John from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Feb 18 07:47:02 1997 ; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 07:47:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Plane's Jon - I have had success with the Rali planes distributed by woodcraft.Theyuse disposable blades and will save you the cost of buying sharpeningequipment, and they are easy to use and adjust. It seems to take me 4bladesto make a two tip rod planing on steel forms. I use the 105 model, but theymake a cheaper version that looks fine to me. One of these days I'm goingtoset up a jig to hone the used blades. from santiago@ricochet.net Tue Feb 18 11:30:05 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA14658 for; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 11:29:58 -0600 Organization: Home Subject: Re: dickerson tapers? Fquinchat@aol.com wrote: Alex WolffBoyne Falls, MI 49713 Dennis THANKS, i am grateful for the address. leo from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Tue Feb 18 13:33:25 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA21745 for; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 13:33:22 -0600 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: activity check I haven't received any postings in several days. Are we still alive? -Bob Matarazzo P.S. I sent this message earlier today and got a message back fromthe list processor saying that I was not on the list - so I had tore-subscribe. Has this ever happened to anybody else? from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Tue Feb 18 14:23:41 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA25158 for; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 14:23:41 -0600 CST Subject: Re: activity check Bob, scratching his head, seez... :-) I haven't received any postings in several days. Are we still alive? -Bob Matarazzo P.S. I sent this message earlier today and got a message back fromthe list processor saying that I was not on the list - so I had tore-subscribe. Has this ever happened to anybody else? Yes Bob, this happens quite often. The listproc software has anautomatic feature(?) built in that unsubscribes a person if thereis repeated problems in trying to deliver mail. If anyone ever gets a message back from the listproc software sayingthat you are not subscribed, that's most likely what happened. Justgo ahead and re-subscribe and everything will be fine again. Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from rickcunn@tenet.edu Tue Feb 18 15:16:36 1997 PAA28097; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:16:28 -0600 Subject: Re: activity check On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Bob Matarazzo X2631 wrote: I haven't received any postings in several days. Are we still alive? -Bob Matarazzo P.S. I sent this message earlier today and got a message back fromthe list processor saying that I was not on the list - so I had tore-subscribe. Has this ever happened to anybody else? In reply to if anyone has lost service; yes, about a week ago I suddenly stopped getting messages. I just went back and resubscribed. Within 8 hours I began getting messages again. from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Feb 18 19:55:33 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA13709 for; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:55:32 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA32014 for; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:53:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Plane's John, I've been wondering if the Lie-Nielson #1 bench plane (5.5 " x1.5")wouldn't be an improvement over the block plane. Or even a woodenPrimus Smooth Plane (8 7/8" long). They just cost so darn much Ihaven't thought seriously about it. And there are Norris planes stillbeing made, but again, until I hit the Lotto. . . . . Brian > from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Feb 18 20:01:11 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA14028 for; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:01:09 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA32124 for; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:59:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Poster III Wayne, The poster looks great, especially the hex section. Brian > from crocm@flinet.com Tue Feb 18 21:09:52 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA16786 for; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:09:51 -0600 Subject: First Fish The 9' 12 wt offshore bagged its first fish today. A small white marlin atabout 90 lbs. Both rod and fish are doing well. The next, after a couple oftarpon rods, will be a 6' boat rod for tuna and blue marlin. BTW my local fly shop had a tin of "Red Tin Muclin" in the "Museum". Thesilk line will be fished this weekend, on somewhat smaller fish. from JHecht9234@aol.com Tue Feb 18 21:31:00 1997 ; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:30:59 -0600 Subject: Tung oil finish I wonder if someone could describe the best way to finish a rod with tungoil. For example, how many coats, do you sand in between, do you use puretung oil or a tung oil varnish, do you apply the coats before or after youwrap the guides, etc. Also, I would be interested in a comparison of thepros and cons of tung oil versus the other popular methods (spar varnish,polyurethene). Thanks in advance. from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Feb 18 21:39:14 1997 ; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:39:13 -0600 Subject: Re: Back again. In a message dated 97-02-15 15:56:41 EST, you write: But when I say rebuilding, I mean I've taken the rod sections down to thebare cane and modified the size. (This a dangerous thing to do, I know. But I'm doing itanyway.) Terry - glad to see your input again. About the above, please let us knowhow it turned out, ie., what your aims were and the affects of resizing.Regards,Richard Tyree from JCZIMNY@dol.net Tue Feb 18 22:42:02 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA21347 for ;Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:42:00 - 0600 Subject: Re: Plane's brian & michelle creek wrote: John, I've been wondering if the Lie-Nielson #1 bench plane (5.5 " x1.5")wouldn't be an improvement over the block plane. Or even a woodenPrimus Smooth Plane (8 7/8" long). They just cost so darn much Ihaven't thought seriously about it. And there are Norris planes stillbeing made, but again, until I hit the Lotto. . . . . Brian >BrianI've had the same thought myself. They seem a little small to get a decent grip on. I understand the bedding angle is 45. Too shallow for cane work. It should be 50 or even 55(york pitch).Norris went out of business in 1941.John from plipton@sunvalley.net Tue Feb 18 23:00:12 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA22220 for; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 23:00:11 -0600 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with SMTP id AAA145 0700 Organization: Sun Valley Rods Subject: Re: Plane's TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Jon - I have had success with the Rali planes distributed by woodcraft.Theyuse disposable blades and will save you the cost of buying sharpeningequipment, and they are easy to use and adjust. It seems to take me 4bladesto make a two tip rod planing on steel forms. I use the 105 model, buttheymake a cheaper version that looks fine to me. One of these days I'm goingtoset up a jig to hone the used blades. The honing jig is a good idea. I use the Rali for rough work and likethe quick adjustment for agressive cuts. But I think you can get a Hockblade sharper and that counts when you are trying to get the lastthousandth off a strip. The Rali also feels a bit bulky in my hand.-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Philip Lipton PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208-726- 0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from rgriff@tcac.com Wed Feb 19 03:58:48 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA11831 for ;Wed, 19 Feb 1997 03:58:32 - 0600 odin.tcac.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id EAA54554 for; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 04:02:11 -0600 Subject: Re: Plane's Or even a wooden Primus Smooth Plane (8 7/8" long). They just cost sodarn much I haven't thought seriously about it. And there are Norris planesstillbeing made, but again, until I hit the Lotto. . . . . Brian >Brian,If you are interested in a wooden plane, you should look into makingyour own. It's a relatively simple process, and can yield great results. Imake special-purpose planes regularly. Metal planes can be costly, evenwhenbuying used merchandise. Most rodbuilder's seem to buy Hock blades fortheirplanes and Hock puts out a pamphlet on plane-making(or they used to). Justanother wayt to save a few bucks.Ron Griffithaka Wind knot"Any clod can have the facts, but having an opinion is an art." Charles McCabe from rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us Wed Feb 19 05:41:06 1997 FAA14743 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 05:41:05-0600 Subject: Re: First Fish At 10:09 PM 2/18/97 -0500, you wrote:The 9' 12 wt offshore bagged its first fish today. A small white marlin atabout 90 lbs. Both rod and fish are doing well. The next, after a couple oftarpon rods, will be a 6' boat rod for tuna and blue marlin. BTW my local fly shop had a tin of "Red Tin Muclin" in the "Museum". Thesilk line will be fished this weekend, on somewhat smaller fish. Hi Ed,A guy I know in Ann Arbor MI has 5ft. cane Tuna rod. It looks like therods used for trolling for King Salmon/ Tyhee in the Northwest. I will domy best to get the specs from him. Ron Barch>It's a real "BIG STICK" from jonrc@atlantic.net Wed Feb 19 07:09:44 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA18393 for; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 07:09:42 -0600 berlin.atlantic.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA21329 for; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 08:20:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Tung oil finish JHecht9234@aol.com wrote: I wonder if someone could describe the best way to finish a rod withtungoil. For example, how many coats, do you sand in between, do you usepuretung oil or a tung oil varnish, do you apply the coats before or after youwrap the guides, etc. Also, I would be interested in a comparison of thepros and cons of tung oil versus the other popular methods (spar varnish,polyurethene). Thanks in advance. I've been using tung oil on all my rods. I feel it's a durable, reliablefinish.The method I use to apply the tung oil is as follows: I dip my fingers into the tung oil and coat the entire blank with oil. I let the oil set up for 30 to 60 minutes, then wipe off all but a thincoat of oil. This step is important, the tendency is to leave to muchoil on the blank. If to much oil is left, the finish will be bumpy andnot smooth. After wiping the excess oil off let the blank dry for 24 hours. Becareful not to get finger prints on the blank as you set it aside todry. I use a 2X4 with different size holes in it to hold the blank as itdrys. I then repeat the above process 7 times checking the blank forsmoothness of the finish. After 7 coats I generally us a very fine steel wool to gently smooth thefinish. The last three coats are applied very thin, wiping the blank until it isalmost dry. If these last three coats of oil are put on very thin there be verylittle polishing that needs to be done on the finished blank. After the guides are wrapped I often apply another very thin coat or twojust to finish off the rod. One important think to understand about tung oil is that it needs air todry, and for each coat to dry in 24 hours that coat need to be thin. Ifyou are going to use tung oil. I'd recommend that you experiment withdifferent thicknesses of coats on something to see how it drys. I use pure tung oil and wrap my guides with a tung oil varnish. Thiscombination works well for me. Tung oil will not fill gaps or coverdefects in your rod. The soft satin finish that tung oil will give youis something that I prefer. I'll let others kick off the discussion on the pros and can of usingtung oil. -- Casting for the fish that has been seen in one's mind time and timeagain. Casting for that magic moment, when everything comes together,the fly is taken and the familiar pulsating tension is felt running thelength of the cane rod allowing the angler just a glimpse of the mysterybelow the surface of the water. Jonathan ClarkeTwin Pines Rod Co.2800 4th St. No #112St. Petersburg, FL 33704 http://rio.atlantic.net/~jonrc from rclarke@eosc.osshe.edu Wed Feb 19 09:53:32 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA27401 for; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:53:30 -0600 Subject: Re: Tung oil finish 19, 97 08:09:51 am JHecht9234@aol.com wrote: I wonder if someone could describe the best way to finish a rod withtungoil. For example, how many coats, do you sand in between, do you usepuretung oil or a tung oil varnish, do you apply the coats before or after youwrap the guides, etc. Also, I would be interested in a comparison ofthepros and cons of tung oil versus the other popular methods (sparvarnish,polyurethene). Thanks in advance. I've been using tung oil on all my rods. I feel it's a durable, reliablefinish.The method I use to apply the tung oil is as follows: I dip my fingers into the tung oil and coat the entire blank with oil. I let the oil set up for 30 to 60 minutes, then wipe off all but a thincoat of oil. This step is important, the tendency is to leave to muchoil on the blank. If to much oil is left, the finish will be bumpy andnot smooth. After wiping the excess oil off let the blank dry for 24 hours. Becareful not to get finger prints on the blank as you set it aside todry. I use a 2X4 with different size holes in it to hold the blank as itdrys. I then repeat the above process 7 times checking the blank forsmoothness of the finish. After 7 coats I generally us a very fine steel wool to gently smooth thefinish. The last three coats are applied very thin, wiping the blank until it isalmost dry. If these last three coats of oil are put on very thin there be verylittle polishing that needs to be done on the finished blank. After the guides are wrapped I often apply another very thin coat or twojust to finish off the rod. One important think to understand about tung oil is that it needs air todry, and for each coat to dry in 24 hours that coat need to be thin. Ifyou are going to use tung oil. I'd recommend that you experiment withdifferent thicknesses of coats on something to see how it drys. I use pure tung oil and wrap my guides with a tung oil varnish. Thiscombination works well for me. Tung oil will not fill gaps or coverdefects in your rod. The soft satin finish that tung oil will give youis something that I prefer. I'll let others kick off the discussion on the pros and can of usingtung oil. -- Casting for the fish that has been seen in one's mind time and timeagain. Casting for that magic moment, when everything comes together,the fly is taken and the familiar pulsating tension is felt running thelength of the cane rod allowing the angler just a glimpse of the mysterybelow the surface of the water. Jonathan ClarkeTwin Pines Rod Co.2800 4th St. No #112St. Petersburg, FL 33704 http://rio.atlantic.net/~jonrc Jon, I appreciate the info on the Tung oil. I have been using varnish, but may try this on one of the rods I am rebuilding. Haven't been to the VFS chat lately, so have missed out talking with you. Hope things arewell. Robert Clarke (Eastern Oregon) rclarke@eosc.osshe.edu from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Wed Feb 19 10:26:53 1997 ; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:26:52 -0600 2.0/2.12um) id IAA000.43; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 08:16:16 -0500 Subject: Re: J.C. Bogeman phone # or address? Hi Leo: Here's J.C.'s address and phone number: J. C. Boegeman1464 South Warner DriveApache Junction, AZ 85220(602) 982-8436 Regards, Rich Brown from santiago@ricochet.net Wed Feb 19 10:47:15 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA01065 for; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:47:13 -0600 IAA17965 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 08:44:53 Organization: Home Subject: Re: J.C. Bogeman phone # or address? rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov wrote: Hi Leo: Here's J.C.'s address and phone number: J. C. Boegeman1464 South Warner DriveApache Junction, AZ 85220(602) 982-8436 Regards, Rich Brown thanks rich, my shop is coming together. from FFer4trout@aol.com Wed Feb 19 11:27:28 1997 ; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:27:26 -0600 Subject: Re: do you really NEED a lathe? In a message dated 97-02-17 19:05:39 EST, you write: Snip No, you don't *need* a lathe to fit ferrules, but the difference in the quality of fit is noticeable. It's harder than you at first think to file the shaft round in a way that the ferrule dosn't slope a little whenfitted.If you're very careful though it can (of course) be done by hand. Tony I've got a Harbor Freight store that's recently opened up in town. Theyseemto sell mostly Chinese "stuff" (I wanted to say - junk). They've got ad's inmany of the the wood working mag's. I saw a small variable-speed, 3-jaw chuck, benchtop metal working lathe(7x10.5 inches, I think or was that in cm?) with a normal selling price ofaround $600. They seem to deep discount if you wait long enough. I wonder if it's a workable unit? Central Machinery brand (their privatelabel I think) if that helps. Also have a little larger machine for about$100 more. Don Burns from Jerry.Snider@UC.Edu Wed Feb 19 12:13:46 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA06370 for; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:13:45 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: 60 degree points Have received a couple of 60 degree points from ENCO(?) in Chicago andwhen I check them with a centering gauge (or is this stupid?) a tad bit oflight can be seen between the point and the gauge. Makes me VERY nervous.Can anyone out there be of help? Also, have my Stanley 9 1/2 plane "leveled", Hock blades sharpened. Have aLie-Nielsen scraper ordered. Does the sole of the latter have to besmoothed also? What about the blade? An ignorant beginner!! Jerry Snider Professor of Biological Sciences and Curator of the Herbarium (CINC) Department of Biological Sciences P.O. Box 210006 University of Cincinnati Cincinnati, OH 45221-0006 Phone: Office/Lab (513)556-9761 e-mail: CINC@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU http://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from crocm@flinet.com Wed Feb 19 13:49:55 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA11730 for; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:49:54 -0600 Subject: Re: First Fish At 06:40 AM 2/19/97 -0500, you wrote: Hi Ed,A guy I know in Ann Arbor MI has 5ft. cane Tuna rod. It looks like therods used for trolling for King Salmon/ Tyhee in the Northwest. I will domy best to get the specs from him. Ron Barch>It's a real "BIG STICK" Hi Ron, If you can get it I would appreciate the tuna taper. I have access to half adozen early bamboo boat rods and will be measuring them in the next fewweeks. Most of these rods are in pretty poor condition missing guides,seatsetc. The most interesting looks like an old Orvis impregnated stick. I amable to see the butt ends on most of these rods and have not detected anydouble or triple builds, interesting since some of the butts areapproachingan inch across the flats, just thick bamboo. They may not have used Tonkinon these boomers. Ed Muraskicrocm@flinet.com from Mikael.Marklund@orkestern.skelleftea.SE Wed Feb 19 15:27:04 1997 0600 skeria.skelleftea.se (4.1/SMI-4.1) 1.21);19 Feb 97 22:34:06 MET DST 22:33:47 MET DST 19 Feb 97 22:33:41 MET DSTComments: Authenticated sender is Subject: Re: First FishPriority: normal Here's a couple of tuna rods:South Bend Tuna ClubEnd:.4356" .41012" .38518" .37024" .35030" .31536" .28542" .25048" .21554" .18061 1/2" .155 South Bend Tuna Club "Light Tackle"End: .5606" .53012" .50018" .46024" .44030" .38536" .35042" .31048" .27054" .22561 1/2" .200 /Mikael----------------------------------------------------------------Mikael Marklundmikael.marklund@orkestern.skelleftea.sehttp://www.skelleftea.se/utb/balder/personal/ba-mma/flyfish.htm from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Feb 19 15:46:18 1997 0600 skywalker.microtec.net with SMTP id ; Wed, 19 Feb 199716:44:20 -0500 Subject: Re: do you really NEED a lathe? In a message dated 97-02-17 19:05:39 EST, you write: Snip No, you don't *need* a lathe to fit ferrules, but the difference in the quality of fit is noticeable. It's harder than you at first think to file the shaft round in a way that the ferrule dosn't slope a little whenfitted.If you're very careful though it can (of course) be done by hand. Tony I've got a Harbor Freight store that's recently opened up in town. Theyseemto sell mostly Chinese "stuff" (I wanted to say - junk). They've got ad's inmany of the the wood working mag's. I saw a small variable-speed, 3-jaw chuck, benchtop metal working lathe(7x10.5 inches, I think or was that in cm?) with a normal selling price ofaround $600. They seem to deep discount if you wait long enough. I wonder if it's a workable unit? Central Machinery brand (their privatelabel I think) if that helps. Also have a little larger machine for about$100 more. Don Burns Hi, I have a made in China metal lathe and have had it a number of yearsnow. It a very accurate piece of equipment, I would not part with it. WhenIpurchased it I ordered a set of collets but have never used them, the Chuckis so accurate.I make all my own ferrules, reel seats and tubes, it is a perfect lathe fornon-ferrous materials.Terry Ackland > from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Wed Feb 19 16:26:15 1997 0600 SVR4) (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA137890977; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:22:57 -0800 Organization: t5012 Subject: tung oil finish I suggest that if you want a gloss finish that you use polymerizedtung oil. In the OLD cabinet making days the formula was;1) one coat a day for one week2) one coat a week for one month3) one coat a month for one year4) one coat a year forever I worked for a 84 year old man for years and in the 30's & 40's he rana cabinet shop in hollywood repairing antiques and making antique re-production for years and this was the formula that he had passed downto him as the propper way to apply an oil finsh. I don't know about theone coat a monthe for one year part but by following the other parts Iwas able to put oil finishes down that were just great. One thingthat I tried with great success was a old gun stock finishing techniqueof rubbing the oil until it was no longer wet. This heats up the oil anddrives it into the pores and using polymerized tung oil it also filled in the pores and pretty much leveled the finsh and made it glossy. Patrick from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Wed Feb 19 16:28:46 1997 0600 with BSMTP id 4289; Wed, 19 Feb 97 17:27:32 EST MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 9968; Wed, 19 Feb1997 17:27:32 -0500Subject: Re: 60 degree points Jerry, As a newcommer as well, I tried the ENCO pointsas well, mine were clearly junky, but folks here recommendeda Starret point--I think they changed about $3. Excellentquality. The addr. is on one of the web pages, else I'llbring it into work tomorrow. My Lie-Nielson plane was trueright out of the box (no need to lap the sole), but of coursethe blade needed sharpening. Excellent quality tool, andthey look beautiful as well. Bob from wfmack@evansville.net Wed Feb 19 17:57:07 1997 0600 (Smail3.2 #15) id m0vxLsk-000ef1C; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 17:57:02 - Subject: Re: 60 degree points Jerry Snider wrote: Have received a couple of 60 degree points from ENCO(?) in Chicago andwhen I check them with a centering gauge (or is this stupid?) a tadbit of light can be seen between the point and the gauge. Makes meVERY nervous. Can anyone out there be of help?Also, have my Stanley 9 1/2 plane "leveled", Hock blades sharpened.Have a Lie-Nielsen scraper ordered. Does the sole of the latter haveto be smoothed also? What about the blade?An ignorant beginner!!Jerry SniderProfessor of Biological Sciences andCurator of the Herbarium (CINC)Department of Biological SciencesP.O. Box 210006University of CincinnatiCincinnati, OH 45221- 0006Phone: Office/Lab (513)556-9761e-mail: CINC@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDUhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htmJerry--I had same experience with imported points from MSC. I think I then got a couple of good ones from the Catalano machine shop in New Jersey. Bill Mack from wfmack@evansville.net Wed Feb 19 18:01:35 1997 0600 (Smail3.2 #15) id m0vxLx6-000ef7C; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 18:01:32 - Subject: Re: 60 degree points Robert Milardo wrote: Jerry, As a newcommer as well, I tried the ENCO pointsas well, mine were clearly junky, but folks here recommendeda Starret point--I think they changed about $3. Excellentquality. The addr. is on one of the web pages, else I'llbring it into work tomorrow. My Lie-Nielson plane was trueright out of the box (no need to lap the sole), but of coursethe blade needed sharpening. Excellent quality tool, andthey look beautiful as well. BobBob-Did you burnish a hook onto the edge of your blade? I have neither gotten mine to behave without a hook nor gotten it to take a hook. Seem to recall instructions said to put one on just like on a thin bladed scraper, but got some email once from someone who thought you don't do so with the thick blade. Any info you can lend on blade setting would be appreciated also. Thanks Bill Mack from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Wed Feb 19 18:05:24 1997 0600 Thu, 20 Feb 1997 08:05:16 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Plane's Has anybody tried the Japanees style of plane, the small low angle pulltype.If this type works OK they would not be too difficult to make.Problem with the conventional western style of plane is the difficulity in making a wooden bodied low angle plane and making one with the iron setat a steeper vis Hock and Krenov angle just seems to cause the iron to skipover the cane.The Lie- Nielson #1 Bench does look a work of art though. It's a shame he dosn't make cane rods. Tony. Or even a wooden Primus Smooth Plane (8 7/8" long). They just cost sodarn much I haven't thought seriously about it. And there are Norrisplanesstillbeing made, but again, until I hit the Lotto. . . . . Brian >Brian,If you are interested in a wooden plane, you should look into makingyour own. It's a relatively simple process, and can yield great results. Imake special-purpose planes regularly. Metal planes can be costly, evenwhenbuying used merchandise. Most rodbuilder's seem to buy Hock blades fortheirplanes and Hock puts out a pamphlet on plane-making(or they used to).Justanother wayt to save a few bucks.Ron Griffithaka Wind knot"Any clod can have the facts, but having an opinion is an art." Charles McCabe /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from fiveside@net-gate.com Wed Feb 19 18:05:35 1997 0600 TAA12064 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 19:05:29 Subject: Stress Curves Hi Darryl,A belated thanks for your neat explanation of stress curves. That issomething that that will help all of us. Bill from rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us Wed Feb 19 18:40:43 1997 0600 Subject: Re: First Fish At 02:49 PM 2/19/97 -0500, you wrote:At 06:40 AM 2/19/97 -0500, you wrote: Hi Ed,A guy I know in Ann Arbor MI has 5ft. cane Tuna rod. It looks like therods used for trolling for King Salmon/ Tyhee in the Northwest. I willdomy best to get the specs from him. Ron Barch>It's a real "BIG STICK" Hi Ron, If you can get it I would appreciate the tuna taper. I have access to half adozen early bamboo boat rods and will be measuring them in the next fewweeks. Most of these rods are in pretty poor condition missing guides,seatsetc. The most interesting looks like an old Orvis impregnated stick. I amable to see the butt ends on most of these rods and have not detected anydouble or triple builds, interesting since some of the butts areapproachingan inch across the flats, just thick bamboo. They may not have usedTonkinon these boomers. Ed Muraskicrocm@flinet.com Hi Ed,It will be a while before I get to Ann Arbor...here is the gentleman'se- mail address.cbutter@umich.edu Tell him Ron Barch sent you...he willbeglad to talk with you about the rod. I will keep in touch. from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Wed Feb 19 18:58:45 1997 0600 2.0/2.12um) id QAA000.68; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 16:48:40 -0500 Subject: Preserving Old Rod Finish Hi all: I have a Walton Powell 9' #6 wt/3 pc rod that I bought new in 1953. Whilenot mint (like me), it's now old enough that I no longer fish it, wanting to preserveit for my posterity. The varnish is still unchecked or crazed but showing somedulling from age. I'd like to apply a wax coating to the varnish to return it to itsprevious luster and reduce the chance of further deterioration. But I'm unsure whattype of wax would be best. Based on the quality of the present finish I don'tbelieve the use of a wax containing an abrasive element would be necessary. Anyadvice in this matter much appreciated. Thanks. Regards, Rich Brown from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Feb 19 19:21:26 1997 skywalker.microtec.net with SMTP id ; Wed, 19 Feb 199720:20:48 -0500 Subject: bamboo windchimes I do not get that much time to get too involved with the list, partlybecause I cannot type, but felt I had to re-subscribe.I was browsing through Jerry Foster's archives and I noticed that therewasa lot of makers using Titebond adhesive. Titebond is an excellent glue for During the last war, metal shortages prompted development of wood as areplacement, especeally in the manufacture of war planes. On both sidesofthe Atlantic aircraft parts were being manufactured from laminated wood,these include exterior skins for wings, leading edges,rudder elevators andtail cones, flaps and bomb doors. This was all made possible because ofthehigh strength resin glues which were based on the plastic phenol and urea. I had a mahogany 14ft racing dinghy that was cooked in the autoclaves ofanaircraft company that turned to boat building after the war. This boat was25 years old and was kept outside yet was as tight as a drum. The phenol- urea adhesives available have a 60 year documented record ofperformance in many environments, they are the perfect adhesive. Whywouldany one change?Adhesive such a Urac are what is called constuction adhesives, that is theglue line is harder than the wood so can tranfer stress faster than thewoodthat is being laminated. Non structural adhesives such as PVA are theopposite and get worse with their ability to tranfer load as the conditionsworsen, ie moistureYou must be able to feel the the difference in a rod built with the correctadhesive and a PVA type glue?I hate to imagine what could happen to a nodeless rod built from a pvaglue! There is some excellent publications put out by the forest products lab inmadison wis. this would give some of you newer builders an idea on how tochoose adhesives and finishes. Split Bamboo Rodmaking is a craft with traditions that that go back overacentury and I think it a little unfair to those traditions changing whatshould not be changed just because it is easier not better. Terry Ackland from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Feb 19 19:55:41 1997 0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA19927 for; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 20:53:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Plane's John, I know of two companies that make Norris style planes from theJuly/August issue of Fine Woodworking.St. James Bay Tool Co. is listed as making several Norris style planes,with their standard block plane a copy of the Norris No.31 (beddingangle 20 degrees) for $235 with a fancy blade-depth adjuster. Phone #given is 1-800/574-2589.Bristol Design in England makes a replica No. 31 without the microadjuster, for a mere $221. As to holding the L-N # 1, it would have to be a one-hand job. Theangle you could probably work out by re-grinding the blade bevel. But like I said, too many mouths to feed today for me to spend another$200 on a really cool plane. Or maybe not. Maybe I could declare thedogs as dependents, Burn more wood and less gas, ... Hmmm.Maybe I need to rethink my priorities a bit! Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Feb 19 19:59:26 1997 0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA19995 for; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 20:57:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Plane's Ron, I know that wood craftsmen have made specialty planes for years, but canyou make one for dealing in tolerances of a thousandth? What wood wouldyou use to get away from problems of shrink-swell? It sounds like fun,tho'. Brian from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Feb 19 21:02:13 1997 0600 Subject: Re: First Fish Ed - Check out Herter's book on bamboo rod making, it has a section oftapers Regards,Richard Tyree from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Feb 19 21:17:42 1997 0600 Subject: Re: Plane's Hi Brian -There are dealers in antique hand tools some of which advertise in FineWoodworking. They often sell Stanley 9-1/2 planes in good condition from$35to $65. The horizontal wheel adjustment seems to work just fine.Best Regards,Richard Tyree from jfoster@gte.net Wed Feb 19 21:47:28 1997 0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id VAA16910 for; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:47:23 -0600 Subject: tapers? Chris I finally got the Cross tapers posted, can you check out the 7/11 andsee if it's close enough to your posting to work, It's hard to deal withthose 1/2 inch measurements. If it's incorrect i;'ll remove it. Thanks Jerry from rgriff@tcac.com Thu Feb 20 03:25:39 1997 odin.tcac.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id DAA54774 for; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 03:29:26 -0600 Subject: Re: Plane's Ron, I know that wood craftsmen have made specialty planes for years, butcanyou make one for dealing in tolerances of a thousandth? What woodwouldyou use to get away from problems of shrink-swell? It sounds like fun,tho'. BrianBrian,I normally use laminations of cherry, walnut, and oak, and havelittle, if any trouble with wood movement. Personally, I think that the people who concern themselves withtolerances of a thousandth in wood are only kidding themselves. You canplane to a tolerance of a thousandth today, then come back and remeasureagain tomorrow and see what you've got. It won't be the same as it wastoday. from what I've read, the old rodmakers worked to the nearest 1/64,and did fine work. The simple fact is: Wood moves!Ron Griffithaka Wind knot"Any clod can have the facts, but having an opinion is an art." Charles McCabe from bub@harborside.com Thu Feb 20 04:06:34 1997 CAA15125 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 02:06:32 - Subject: bamboo rods I am just getting started in the art of bamboo rod making.I just gotmy first issue of "The planing form" plus several back issues, so I'mplanning to do a lot of reading in the next few days. Any help will begreatly appreciated. from rclarke@eosc.osshe.edu Thu Feb 20 10:23:19 1997 Subject: Re: bamboo windchimes 08:08:42 pm Terry, as someone new to the list, and just thinking about building (I am currently restoring a few cane rods), I really appreciate the info you have shared. Even though you may not be the best typist, please keep it coming. Robert Clarke (aka Eastern Oregon) rclarke@eosc.osshe.edu from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Thu Feb 20 14:02:28 1997 0600 with BSMTP id 8654; Thu, 20 Feb 97 15:01:15 EST MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 3483; Thu, 20 Feb1997 15:01:15 -0500Subject: Re: 60 degree points Bill, Must say I'm hardly the expert with this L/Nscrapper plane, but I've been using it for all sortof projects. It seems to me to be a fairly difficulttool to get the hang of--the learning curve is lowbut well worth the effort. I spoke with one of thecraftsmen at L/N to ask them about it's use and so on.I was told that the original model had a blade thatcould be burnished with a hook, but that they believedthis was not necessary or desireable because itdid not seem to produce consistent results. So, severalyears ago they changed the blade--it how has a hardnessof 60-62R, much too hard to burnish, nor did they thinkit was really necessary. Nice folks and very informative. One key to using this tool (just one and maybe othershave good advise as well) is to balance the angle ofthe blade with the depth of cut. L/N recommended about5-10 degrees forward. Some folks also recommend insertinga sheet of paper under the forward sole of the planeto set the blade depth. But of course the devil is inthe details; use thick paper and the blade's too deep.The outcome is a chattering plane. It has amazed mehow sensative this setting is. So, to plane or to scrapethat is the question.Whether it is nobeler in the mindto suffer the dip and curl of outragious fortune etc.Tight Lines, Bob. from rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us Thu Feb 20 15:33:40 1997 Subject: Re: bamboo windchimes At 08:08 PM 2/19/97 -0500, you wrote:I do not get that much time to get too involved with the list, partlybecause I cannot type, but felt I had to re- subscribe.I was browsing through Jerry Foster's archives and I noticed that therewasa lot of makers using Titebond adhesive. Titebond is an excellent glue for During the last war, metal shortages prompted development of wood as areplacement, especeally in the manufacture of war planes. On both sidesofthe Atlantic aircraft parts were being manufactured from laminatedwood,these include exterior skins for wings, leading edges,rudder elevatorsandtail cones, flaps and bomb doors. This was all made possible because ofthehigh strength resin glues which were based on the plastic phenol andurea. I had a mahogany 14ft racing dinghy that was cooked in the autoclaves ofanaircraft company that turned to boat building after the war. This boatwas25 years old and was kept outside yet was as tight as a drum. The phenol- urea adhesives available have a 60 year documented record ofperformance in many environments, they are the perfect adhesive. Whywouldany one change?Adhesive such a Urac are what is called constuction adhesives, that istheglue line is harder than the wood so can tranfer stress faster than thewoodthat is being laminated. Non structural adhesives such as PVA are theopposite and get worse with their ability to tranfer load as theconditionsworsen, ie moistureYou must be able to feel the the difference in a rod built with the correctadhesive and a PVA type glue?I hate to imagine what could happen to a nodeless rod built from a pvaglue! There is some excellent publications put out by the forest products lab inmadison wis. this would give some of you newer builders an idea on howtochoose adhesives and finishes. Split Bamboo Rodmaking is a craft with traditions that that go back overacentury and I think it a little unfair to those traditions changing whatshould not be changed just because it is easier not better. Terry Ackland Terry,I use resorcinol, not because of tradition but because it works. I usedto mess around with boats and know resorcinol is dependable stuff. Was that 14 ft dinghy an International 14. I used to race a FlyingDutchman and the 14's always wipped us!!!Ron Barch> from rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us Thu Feb 20 15:37:31 1997 Subject: Re: Plane's At 09:04 PM 2/19/97 -0500, you wrote:Ron, I know that wood craftsmen have made specialty planes for years, butcanyou make one for dealing in tolerances of a thousandth? What woodwouldyou use to get away from problems of shrink-swell? It sounds like fun,tho'. Brian Brian,I think hard maple would work fine or maybe hop hornbeam, pok, ebony,wenge, there are a lot of stable woods out there. Remember man usedwood started killing each other on a large scale.....Ron> from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Feb 20 15:51:41 1997 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA04009 for; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 16:49:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Plane's Richard, I come from five generations of pattern makers and carpenters. I gotthe antique tools, I have a few dozen planes, but I don't have a Norrisstyle plane. I'm just trying to convince myself I need one!! Brian from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Thu Feb 20 16:05:37 1997 Subject: Parker Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is Does anyone have a number for Jon Parker in Ballston Lake NY. I have been trying to get in touch with him and can't find a phone number. He still may own Parker Rods if that is any help. Jon from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Thu Feb 20 17:14:20 1997 Subject: Get togethers? Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is Exactly where and when is the get together in MIchigan and then in the Catskills. I went to look at a map and realized I lost the paper I had written everything down on. Jon from khube@benmeadows.com Thu Feb 20 17:41:24 1997 18:41:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Parker At 04:52 PM 2/20/97 +0000, you wrote:Does anyone have a number for Jon Parker in Ballston Lake NY. I have been trying to get in touch with him and can't find a phone number. He still may own Parker Rods if that is any help. Jon============================================================= See listing in Jerry Foster's great page http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Parker's number is 518-899-2629 Karl Hube from jfoster@gte.net Thu Feb 20 17:53:58 1997 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id RAA18303 for; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:53:49 -0600 Subject: Re: Parker Jon John's Web page is listed under the rodmakers icon on the archive.. http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm There are a lot of answers to other questions you've been asking, orthinking about asking, also Check out rm archives Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Thu Feb 20 17:55:24 1997 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id RAA21533 for; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:55:20 -0600 Subject: Re: Parker Thanks Karl. I hate to think this all goes for not. Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Thu Feb 20 18:04:03 1997 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id SAA09045 for; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:04:00 -0600 Subject: Re: bamboo windchimes Welcome back Terrance everyone should check it out..Jerry from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Feb 20 18:29:04 1997 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA06828 for; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 19:27:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Plane's Ron, Hey! Don't forget the Bronze Age! Those guys cut a pretty wide swathwith alloys before the Goth's kicked their shiny hineys! Brian from FFer4trout@aol.com Thu Feb 20 18:35:36 1997 Subject: Rod restorers - Heddon reelseats?? I just was offered a Heddon rod, but the fellow needed to remove thespacerto repair some other rod (the old rob Peter to pay Paul routine). I've also had a problem or two with bad Heddon late-era plastic (tenite orpyaralin) reelseat spacers (suffering from cracks or bad warps). Doesanyoneelse run into these problems? Would there be any REAL interest if I could supply replacement spacers?Howmuch would you be willing to pay per each spacer? How many would you beinterested in purchasing over say a 5 year period if the spacers wereavailable? I can have a mold made and would be able supply replacements. Made in theoriginal colors and of the exact same size. The startup costs are high, profit low and so I want to test the waterfirst. My first best guess price would be near $25 - $40 each and that's if thedemand is near my best guess. Please e-mail direct at "ffer4trout@aol.com", I don't want to take up largeamounts of rodmakers bandwidth. Thanks,Don Burns PS - How would you feel about a mold mark or some other method to tellthatits a replacement part? from khube@benmeadows.com Thu Feb 20 18:44:28 1997 19:44:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Parker At 05:56 PM 2/20/97 -0600, you wrote:Thanks Karl. I hate to think this all goes for not. Jerry===================================================================== Jerry, Should have said something earlier!! Your effort is impressive and I havegotten a lot out of the information you have assembled. Well done !! Karl HubeMarietta, Georgia from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Thu Feb 20 18:47:57 1997 Fri, 21 Feb 1997 08:47:51 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Plane's On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Ronald J. Barch wrote: At 09:04 PM 2/19/97 -0500, you wrote:Ron, I know that wood craftsmen have made specialty planes for years, butcanyou make one for dealing in tolerances of a thousandth? What woodwouldyou use to get away from problems of shrink-swell? It sounds like fun,tho'. Brian Brian,I think hard maple would work fine or maybe hop hornbeam, pok, ebony,wenge, there are a lot of stable woods out there. Remember man usedwood started killing each other on a large scale.....Ron> If you can get it, and I'm told you can use Jarah from Australia. It's dense, fine grained, stable and easy to work with sharp tools. Makes excellent plane bodies. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Feb 20 18:53:37 1997 skywalker.microtec.net with SMTP id ; Thu, 20 Feb 199719:53:21 -0500 Subject: Re: bamboo windchimes At 08:08 PM 2/19/97 -0500, you wrote:I do not get that much time to get too involved with the list, partlybecause I cannot type, but felt I had to re- subscribe.I was browsing through Jerry Foster's archives and I noticed that therewasa lot of makers using Titebond adhesive. Titebond is an excellent gluefor During the last war, metal shortages prompted development of wood as areplacement, especeally in the manufacture of war planes. On both sidesofthe Atlantic aircraft parts were being manufactured from laminatedwood,these include exterior skins for wings, leading edges,rudder elevatorsandtail cones, flaps and bomb doors. This was all made possible because ofthehigh strength resin glues which were based on the plastic phenol andurea. I had a mahogany 14ft racing dinghy that was cooked in the autoclavesof anaircraft company that turned to boat building after the war. This boatwas25 years old and was kept outside yet was as tight as a drum. The phenol- urea adhesives available have a 60 year documented recordofperformance in many environments, they are the perfect adhesive. Whywouldany one change?Adhesive such a Urac are what is called constuction adhesives, that istheglue line is harder than the wood so can tranfer stress faster than thewoodthat is being laminated. Non structural adhesives such as PVA are theopposite and get worse with their ability to tranfer load as theconditionsworsen, ie moistureYou must be able to feel the the difference in a rod built with thecorrectadhesive and a PVA type glue?I hate to imagine what could happen to a nodeless rod built from a pvaglue! There is some excellent publications put out by the forest products labinmadison wis. this would give some of you newer builders an idea on howtochoose adhesives and finishes. Split Bamboo Rodmaking is a craft with traditions that that go backover acentury and I think it a little unfair to those traditions changing whatshould not be changed just because it is easier not better. Terry Ackland Terry,I use resorcinol, not because of tradition but because it works. I usedto mess around with boats and know resorcinol is dependable stuff. Was that 14 ft dinghy an International 14. I used to race a FlyingDutchman and the 14's always wipped us!!!Ron Barch> Ron, it was an international 14, it was built when the class did not allowthe trapeze, it was a real handful with all that sail. The modern 14s lookgreat, two on the trapeze almost on the transom. I have got myself a keel boat now, a Sonar it goes like a rocket and is socomfortable. I dont have a dinghy size body anymore.Terry from teekay35@interlynx.net Thu Feb 20 19:51:59 1997 Subject: Ontario Bamboo Rod Builder's Gathering The first Ontario Gathering will be held on the Grand River near Fergus,Ontario, on Friday, May 30 and Saturday, May 31, 1997. So far we haveconfirmed seminars by John Bokstrom, George Maurer, John Zimny, RonBarch,Roy DiGuisti and Ray Blades, with more to be set up over the next fewweeks. If you are planning to attend, and have a topic you would like tosee on the agenda, a device or gadget to share, or other item of use to rodbuilders, please let me know. There is a casting pond next to our meetingplace and a place to set up, display, and try out the rods which peoplebring. There is also space inside the meeting hall to display items ofinterest. A small group of us are meeting within the next few days towork on program logistics. The Grand River has earned an excellent reputation for Brown Troutfishingand we are arranging our program to allow morning and evening fishing. Registration will be limited to 50 people. The fee is $30.00 U.S. or$40.00 Can. 3C9Telephone: 905-304-0388 or teekay35@interlynx.net from jsbond@inforamp.net Thu Feb 20 20:35:53 1997 VAA22598 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 21:35:51 Subject: Re: J.C. Bogeman phone # or address? 602-982-8436 Arizona At 20:59 14/02/97 +0000, you wrote:looking through old postings i came across J.C. Bogeman for lathes. does anyone have an address or phone number? thanks for the help, leo James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Feb 20 22:05:27 1997 skywalker.microtec.net with SMTP id ; Thu, 20 Feb 199723:05:17 -0500 Subject: endless problem wrapping machines- try this.Take the endless belt off yor wrapping machines, open a window and throwitas far as you can!The next step isGet a length of cord and knot it to the hand wheel through a small hole. Thecord then goes round the guide wheel up to the stick to be glued up, theusual twice around it and then down between plates and spring tensioner.You must make sure the length of cord is long enough and does not run outbefore the stick has passed through. I never bothered with a tensioner, I tensioned the cord with one hand andturned with the other. You can use a fresh length of cord every time orgiveit a wash. I am lazy and found trying to splice bits of bloody string together thatgenarally came apart or got caught up in the binding thread when itstartedto fray was a pain.This worked for me , it might not work for you. Dont ask how long thestringshould be or what diameter.Terry Ackland from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu Feb 20 22:15:59 1997 Subject: Re: 60 degree points Robert Milardo wrote: Bill, Must say I'm hardly the expert with this L/Nscrapper plane, but I've been using it for all sortof projects. It seems to me to be a fairly difficulttool to get the hang of--the learning curve is lowbut well worth the effort. I spoke with one of thecraftsmen at L/N to ask them about it's use and so on.I was told that the original model had a blade thatcould be burnished with a hook, but that they believedthis was not necessary or desireable because itdid not seem to produce consistent results. So, severalyears ago they changed the blade--it how has a hardnessof 60-62R, much too hard to burnish, nor did they thinkit was really necessary. Nice folks and very informative. One key to using this tool (just one and maybe othershave good advise as well) is to balance the angle ofthe blade with the depth of cut. L/N recommended about5-10 degrees forward. Some folks also recommend insertinga sheet of paper under the forward sole of the planeto set the blade depth. But of course the devil is inthe details; use thick paper and the blade's too deep.The outcome is a chattering plane. It has amazed mehow sensative this setting is. So, to plane or to scrapethat is the question.Whether it is nobeler in the mindto suffer the dip and curl of outragious fortune etc.Tight Lines, Bob.As far as I know the irons in the plane-like scrapers ieStanley and perhaps Kunz have never been used with a hooked edge. It was only the scrappers that were made from square sheets of old saw blades that were squared, burnished and "hooked". I use my Lie-Neilsen all the time and I've never attempt to turn the edge. I have, however, seen luthiers use shop-made hooked scrapper blades with unsurpassed results. The surface on very difficult woods (burls) are like satin and take finish well.John from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu Feb 20 22:16:01 1997 Subject: Re: Plane's brian & michelle creek wrote: Richard, I come from five generations of pattern makers and carpenters. I gotthe antique tools, I have a few dozen planes, but I don't have a Norrisstyle plane. I'm just trying to convince myself I need one!!BrianYou certainly do need one!Zimny from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Feb 21 08:17:00 1997 Subject: Re: Plane's Earlier I posted how to make a wooden scraper - I'm sure that Jerry hastaken good care of it. The project was intended for the budget minded. Ihaveuse itbut because I'm used to the Lie-Neilsen repro #212 I still feel it is alittle light - weight could be added by boring the wood and adding lead. Awhile back I send Mike (List Guru) a black and white photo of the finishedproject. I think that it could be scanned and put with the text for thosewanting to try to make a scraper.Over the years I have tried several planes and scrapers. And MYimpressions are as follows:Original # 9 1/2 or Current Bailey - the original design is the pinwheel adjustment and it is a lighter in weight the the current model. Theoriginal plane that I started rod making with was the one that my grandfather used building barns with (ca 1910) - I have come to like the bladeadjustment of the new version better. The originals are marked as suchThe Stanley 9a is is a heavier version of the original The current version is stamped 12 - 020 but because of the ISO 9000quality control standards the box that it comes in is marked G12-920 andcanbe purchased at Builder's Square for $32.95 - the blade is junk and thesolewon't be flat either.I spent some time with Phil Lipton who has several different planes -the one that I tried was the Lie-Neilsen and it worked well but had adifferent feel to it. I'm sure that given more time I could come to like.The repro #212 is a delight - ready to go out of the box - except TomandI have this disagreement of the different blade angles and whether toremovethe burr or not.I have a couple scrapers that were made by Ernie Conover - they arecopies of a scraper that is in the American Museum of Fly Fishing.Unfortunately after Ernie sold his lathe manufacturing company the stockofthese scrapers has disappeared and no one is making them anymore.The Kutz scraper that I tried years ago was too big and bulky for thedelicate work of final dimensioning strips of bamboo. The model I triedwasstocked by Garrett - Wade and they may have a new model that I haven'tseen.I enjoy using just the 12-020 plane and the repro #212 for making rodswith - but as is the case - I have told to others that prefer differentcombinations. The different planes used by Mr. Garrison would be anexample.I and several others have never been able to use the 60 1/2 plane withany success - the low angle of the blade seems to split the bamboo aheadofthe actual cut and that can cause a lot of problems.If anyone wants I can repost the exert on making the wooded scrapers Wayne from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Fri Feb 21 10:41:33 1997 SVR4) (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA123763093; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 08:38:14 -0800 Organization: t5012 Subject: block plane The William Alden co 1-800-249-8665 on page 40 of their new catologuehas stanley 9 1/2 block plane on sale for $28.99. Patrick from rmoon@dns.ida.net Fri Feb 21 11:22:58 1997 Subject: Re: block plane At 08:36 PM 2/21/97 -0800, you wrote:The William Alden co 1-800-249- 8665 on page 40 of their new catologuehas stanley 9 1/2 block plane on sale for $28.99. Patrick It doesn"t get any better than that.Ralph from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Feb 21 12:08:45 1997 Subject: Re: Reminiscing Mike,There ain't no perfect rod-just lots of attempts-but ain't it fun?Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Feb 21 12:30:53 1997 Subject: Re: endless problem Terry,That's a great idea-I hate it when the cord breaks-I'll give it a go on mynext rod.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Feb 21 12:30:56 1997 Subject: Re: Plane's Wayne,I, too, don't use the 60 1/2 degree plane for the same reason-it's justsitting gathering dust.Hank. from jfoster@gte.net Fri Feb 21 13:33:55 1997 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id NAA08533 for; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:33:52 -0600 Subject: Re: block plane patrick, all The Alden Stanley planes were $26 something when i called so i bought 2 Jerry from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Fri Feb 21 14:04:59 1997 0600 with BSMTP id 4206; Fri, 21 Feb 97 15:03:48 EST MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 7815; Fri, 21 Feb1997 15:03:48 -0500Subject: Scraper planes The new issue (no. 123) of Fine Woodworking has aninteresting article on cabinet scrapers. The authorMonroe Robinson makes two interesting points. Oneconcerns setting the angle and blade on L/N 212s.He suggests first setting the angle 5 degress forwardso thereabouts, then with the body of the plane ona flat surface insert the blade and tighten er up.At this point the edge of the blade should be flushwith the surface of the sole. Then, increase the angleof the frog another half degree or so, this has theeffect of exposing the blade just a bit. Neat idea. Also he mentions burnishing the edge of plane blades aswell as the more typical burnishing of hand held scrapers,I guess for a more aggressive cut. Tight lines, Bob. from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Fri Feb 21 16:23:05 1997 Subject: You're on your own... Just want to let everyone know that I will be away from email autopilot so things should(?) be fine. If any of you are havingany problems you can always try the unsub/re-sub gambit as thatusually clears up lots of problems. If your problems persistsend me a note and I will look into it immeadiately upon myreturn. Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Feb 21 18:45:02 1997 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA27086 for; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 19:43:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Plane's John, MY GOD! You're right! What Was I thinking about?? Thanks for the clarification. Brian (I'm calling St. John's tools now) > from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Fri Feb 21 19:45:39 1997 Sat, 22 Feb 1997 09:45:19 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Plane's On Fri, 21 Feb 1997 FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Wayne,I, too, don't use the 60 1/2 degree plane for the same reason- it'sjustsitting gathering dust.Hank. The 60- 1/2 is the only plane I use until it's time for the LN scraper and I never get tear out, The shavings are fairly thick too, all I'm doing is keeping the iron sharp and the throat finely set.Are you getting tear out only at the nodes? As I'm making rods nodeless I'm not having to plane them.I'd ask how much you wanted for the plane, but post etc would not make it viable. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Fquinchat@aol.com Fri Feb 21 19:49:40 1997 Subject: Re: Plane's Wayne: Please repost the material on scrapers Dennis Bertram from fiveside@net-gate.com Fri Feb 21 19:53:28 1997 UAA16223 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 1997 20:53:24 - Subject: tapers Hi Gary,Somewhere it is written (I forget just where) that Garrison, theultimateengineer, developed his tapers and stress curve formulas so that he couldreduce his rod material, cane, to the absolute minimum thickness tohandlethe casting forces while preserving his desired action. This seems to be aworthwhile goal since bamboo is relatively heavy and plastic rods have abigedge in the weight department. Why else make hollow cane rods? This isanother reason why it seems a good idea to work with stress curvesratherthan empirical approaches to rod design.Bill from cbogart@ibm.net Sat Feb 22 09:22:11 1997 KAA14667 for ; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 10:22:57-0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: tapers Bill There is another reason for hollow building then weight - stiffness.With a hollow built rod you have two surfaces rather than one - this will change the formula - ever wonder why a tube is stiffer than a solid pieceof material or people use I-beams for strength. If you think about thislong enough - it makes the head hurt. Not being a mechanical engineerto expound upon the exact theory it is true - but it true - and from my experience you change the characteristics of the rod as far as stiffnessand strength in the hollow section - how does this affect your stresscurve?Maybe somebody who knows the math part suggest an update to the hexrod programs for a hollow built option to adjust the stress curves. What ya say??? Chris from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Feb 22 09:43:15 1997 skywalker.microtec.net with SMTP id ; Sat, 22 Feb 199710:43:05 -0500 Subject: Re: tapers Bill There is another reason for hollow building then weight - stiffness.With a hollow built rod you have two surfaces rather than one - this will change the formula - ever wonder why a tube is stiffer than a solid pieceof material or people use I-beams for strength. If you think about thislong enough - it makes the head hurt. Not being a mechanical engineerto expound upon the exact theory it is true - but it true - and from my experience you change the characteristics of the rod as far as stiffnessand strength in the hollow section - how does this affect your stresscurve?Maybe somebody who knows the math part suggest an update to the hexrod programs for a hollow built option to adjust the stress curves. What ya say??? ChrisI-beams is I-beams and Tubes is tubes and they do make your head hurt,especially if you get whacked with them.Terry Ackland from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Sat Feb 22 12:16:05 1997 #19314) Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, Subject: Re: Planes WayneThanks again!! I've been looking at the Stanley boxes with G12-920 sayingto myself good price but I need a G12-020. Will have one before theweekendis over. Thanksgerald(jerry)johnson from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Sat Feb 22 12:48:11 1997 SVR4) (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA239967092; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 10:44:52 -0800 Organization: t5012 Subject: planes The g12-920 is the stanley 9 1/2 with a adjustable throat,screw typeblade feed and 21 degree blade angle according to the William Alden Cocatologue and I am assuming from this information that the G12-920 isthe correct block plane to plane bamboo strips with. If this is incor- rect would somebody please point out the error of my thinking. Patrick from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Feb 22 14:10:33 1997 Subject: Re: tapers In a message dated 97-02-22 10:26:51 EST, you write: A tube isn't stiffer because it's a tube. A tube is stiffer because forthe same diameter it's lighter than a solid rod. The adjustment incalculating stress curves is to reduce the weight for each section (using Garrisons formulas) is to reduce the specific gravity termused. Darryl Hayashida from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Sat Feb 22 16:18:08 1997 #19314) Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, Subject: Stain I acquired a 9' 3 piece rod last week at a local pawn shop. Someone hadtried to make it into a spinning rod ?? I have stripped the mid and tip sections to make into a banty. The problem is the cane shows where theorignal wraps were. Does anyone know a method to remove or lightentheseareas? Thanks in advance.gerald(jerry)johnson from wfmack@evansville.net Sat Feb 22 16:38:19 1997 (Smail3.2 #15) id m0vyQ59-000eULC; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 16:38:15 - Subject: Re: 60 degree points Robert Milardo wrote: Bill, Must say I'm hardly the expert with this L/Nscrapper plane, but I've been using it for all sortof projects. It seems to me to be a fairly difficulttool to get the hang of--the learning curve is lowbut well worth the effort. I spoke with one of thecraftsmen at L/N to ask them about it's use and so on.I was told that the original model had a blade thatcould be burnished with a hook, but that they believedthis was not necessary or desireable because itdid not seem to produce consistent results. So, severalyears ago they changed the blade--it how has a hardnessof 60-62R, much too hard to burnish, nor did they thinkit was really necessary. Nice folks and very informative. One key to using this tool (just one and maybe othershave good advise as well) is to balance the angle ofthe blade with the depth of cut. L/N recommended about5-10 degrees forward. Some folks also recommend insertinga sheet of paper under the forward sole of the planeto set the blade depth. But of course the devil is inthe details; use thick paper and the blade's too deep.The outcome is a chattering plane. It has amazed mehow sensative this setting is. So, to plane or to scrapethat is the question.Whether it is nobeler in the mindto suffer the dip and curl of outragious fortune etc.Tight Lines, Bob.Bob--Many thanks. Bill from cbogart@ibm.net Sat Feb 22 17:25:23 1997 SAA18146 for ; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 18:26:14-0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: tapers Darryl My point is that you cannot reduce the "weight" at thatpoint in the calculation - If you did just that then it would be equivilantof having a smaller dimension at that point because dimension is usedto calculate mass which has a specific weight. There is a structural component that is being over looked withhollowbuilt rods. A like analogy is honeycomb materials are stronger then non honeycomb . The surfaces provide strength and stiffness. Do we have an mechanical engineer out there that can addto this? Chris from GLohkamp@aol.com Sat Feb 22 18:15:58 1997 Subject: Re: Stain Jerry You could try to ammonia tone the blank to a darker color . l do'nt knowlf the ammonia would just make the sun spots darker too. l have nevertriedit but l do know sometimes you just have to go with somethings. Gary from 73251.1513@CompuServe.COM Sat Feb 22 18:19:13 1997 Subject: Alden Catalog I have seen several references to " the Alden Catalog". Could someone posttheaddress and or phone number to obtain a copy of the catalog. Regards,Karl Almquist from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Feb 22 19:10:42 1997 skywalker.microtec.net with SMTP id ; Sat, 22 Feb 199720:10:36 -0500 Subject: heat treatment When I first started building rods I adhered strictly to Garrisonstime/tempformula- tips 6mins @ 375degF? I found that the rods I was building weresosoft. I thought at the time that a strip ended up softer using Garrisonstime/temp that I figured it must be a typo.Lets face it, 6 mins is a veryshort time.I believe that bamboo has the ability to absorb moisture readily and giveitup very slowly as part of its mechanism.I can remember my early rods could not be layed at an angle and developedsets very quickly. I noticed the same problem with other builders of rodstothe Garrison book when I attended a gathering. I have seen a Garrison rod and it was not the colour you get for 6 minutesin the cooker.I tried to get a similar message posted last spring but I got cut off and Idont think it made it.I understand there are guys out there that believe that going against thebook is a crime but I think it is doing Garrison a disservice if there is anerror in the book that produces rods that lack the performance of his rods. Is there other builders out there that have drawn the same conclusionsoverthe years?Terry Ackland from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Sat Feb 22 19:44:21 1997 mtigwc02.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA3225 +0000 Subject: Re: tapers Chris Bogart wrote: Bill There is another reason for hollow building then weight - stiffness.With a hollow built rod you have two surfaces rather than one - this willchange the formula - ever wonder why a tube is stiffer than a solid pieceof material or people use I-beams for strength. If you think about thislong enough - it makes the head hurt. Not being a mechanical engineerto expound upon the exact theory it is true - but it true - and from myexperience you change the characteristics of the rod as far as stiffnessand strength in the hollow section - how does this affect your stresscurve?Maybe somebody who knows the math part suggest an update to thehexrod programs for a hollow built option to adjust the stress curves.What ya say??? Chris Unfortunately, this is incorrect. A hollow rod of a given diameter isnot stiffer than a solid rod of the same diameter. Stiffness isproportional to the fourth power of the diameter in the case of a solidrod. In a hollow rod, the stiffness is proportional to the quantity[fourth power of the outer diameter minus the forth power of the innerdiameter]. The limitations of my knowledge of my e-mail test editor prohibit me from typing out the formula here. However, if there is enough interest,I would be happy to send people a copy of the calculations andderivations of the formulas I did last summer in response to discussionsI participated in at Grayling. For you mechanical engineers out there,the formulas are taken from Roark's "Formulas for Stress and Strain." Best regards,Ed Estlow from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Feb 22 19:48:36 1997 Subject: Re: Plane's Tony,I probably set my throat too wide and I've had good luck with the 91/2so, as the old feller said, if it ain't broke don't fix her. Looks like Istill have something to learn. Of course I was using the blade that camewithit-it may need tuning. If I can't make it work for me I'll ship it toyou-send me your address by e-mail to fishwool@aol.com.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Feb 22 19:48:38 1997 Subject: Re: tapers To Gary, Bill, et al.Remember what Garrison said about compression and tension duringrodflexion-this means, if true, that the center of the rod has very littlestess,thus hollow building does not make the rod weaker, only lighter. I'vebeen making hollow rods empirically with a fair amount of success-Ibelievethe stress curve analysis is good for a start but with so many variablesbetween culms, rod finishes, heat treatments,etc. it may be only a start.Hank- I can't get the #@% MAC to spell right- Woolman. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Feb 22 19:48:42 1997 Subject: Re: tapers Chris, Bill, Terry,Parts is parts, Hank :-) from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Feb 22 19:58:32 1997 Subject: Re: heat treatment Terry,Ive found the same thing and faulted the tapers accordingly-I nowbelieveyou're right and the book's times are wrong. I may go back and tryGarrison'stapers again. I'm using 375@ 15+ minutes after flaming the unplanedstrips-the heat treatment is done after final planing.Hank. from hihoslvr@teleport.com Sat Feb 22 20:21:13 1997 SMTP id SAA01342 for ; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 Subject: Re: tapers Chris Bogart wrote: Bill There is another reason for hollow building then weight -stiffness.With a hollow built rod you have two surfaces rather than one - thiswillchange the formula - ever wonder why a tube is stiffer than a solidpieceof material or people use I-beams for strength. If you think about thislong enough - it makes the head hurt. Not being a mechanical engineerto expound upon the exact theory it is true - but it true - and from myexperience you change the characteristics of the rod as far as stiffnessand strength in the hollow section - how does this affect your stresscurve?Maybe somebody who knows the math part suggest an update to thehexrod programs for a hollow built option to adjust the stress curves.What ya say??? Chris Unfortunately, this is incorrect. A hollow rod of a given diameter isnot stiffer than a solid rod of the same diameter. Stiffness isproportional to the fourth power of the diameter in the case of a solidrod. In a hollow rod, the stiffness is proportional to the quantity[fourth power of the outer diameter minus the forth power of the innerdiameter]. The limitations of my knowledge of my e-mail test editor prohibit me from typing out the formula here. However, if there is enough interest,I would be happy to send people a copy of the calculations andderivations of the formulas I did last summer in response to discussionsI participated in at Grayling. For you mechanical engineers out there,the formulas are taken from Roark's "Formulas for Stress and Strain." Best regards,Ed Estlow Ed, I am interested in the calculations and derivations of the formulas. Ron p.s. Please contact me by E-mail to work everything out. Thanks. hihoslvr@teleport.com from JCZIMNY@dol.net Sat Feb 22 21:05:49 1997 Subject: Re: heat treatment I think that Terry is correct. But I think that 375F is really pushing it. Most of the lignins will begin to crystallize at around 365F. I think you can and should go longer. But, I'd stay just a hair below 350 F. You'll get the desirable effects without the danger of ruining your work.John from JCZIMNY@dol.net Sat Feb 22 21:05:51 1997 Subject: Re: tapers Ed,I would very much appreciate a tutorial on this subject.John from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Feb 22 21:22:36 1997 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA13654 for; Sat, 22 Feb 1997 22:20:39 -0500 Subject: Re: heat treatment All, A couple of months ago Wayne posted a discussion of Garrison's math andimplied that perhaps Ev wasn't telling everything. Could there be areasin the book that were slightly fudged to protect trade secrets? Doesanybody have any other "mistakes" from Garrison's book like this one? I don't mean to cast aspersions on a great rodmaker and author who hashelped the craft so much, but hell, he WAS (like us) a fisherman!! If it was me I'd hold something back.(Actually, if it was me I'd just lie to you while I pocketed your hardearned cash, but I also fish streamers from time to time.) ;^) Brian from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Feb 22 21:25:16 1997 skywalker.microtec.net with SMTP id ; Sat, 22 Feb 199722:25:07 -0500 Subject: Re: heat treatment Terry,Ive found the same thing and faulted the tapers accordingly-I nowbelieveyou're right and the book's times are wrong. I may go back and tryGarrison'stapers again. I'm using 375@ 15+ minutes after flaming the unplanedstrips-the heat treatment is done after final planing.Hank. Hank,thanks, perhaps we can get some real rodmaking stuff going, the problemis,is that there are not too many anglers left that can remember bamboo, Imeana quality rod not a fixer-upper. Almost all the guys on this list were bornlong after bamboo was written off, there is no yardstick. They have nevercast a good bamboo rod they have been told that if you make a rod to the"book" you will have an exquisite casting tool.I have been to a couple of rodbuilders get togethers and we were allcastingour Garrison tapers and we were all remarking on each others rods andsayinghow good they were. Non of em was straight and they run out of steamafterabout 24ft. It was a "king's new clothes" situation.I said as much when I was on the list a year ago but rather than waste mytime discussing the usefulness of scraper planes I unsubscribed and got onwith real work-experimentation and development.I can remember reading in the Iconography of the split bamboo ( cantremember the authors name) and he commented on a builder of Garrisoncopyrods and he noted that the rods were softer than Garrisons because he didnot have the thick walled Tonkin that was available to E.G.The guy noticed the difference but for the wrong reason.I must admit that I have been hard on Garrison in the past and changed mytapers long ago, you could leave yor strips in the oven all day at 300F andnot harm them Hank.I have had a few sparkling beverages and I am a really bad typist,I hope itmakes sense, my wife and daughter redicule my abilities.Terry PS Its good to see someone else has got bugger all to do on a Saturdaynight from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Feb 22 21:43:15 1997 skywalker.microtec.net with SMTP id ; Sat, 22 Feb 199722:43:11 -0500 Subject: Re: heat treatment All, A couple of months ago Wayne posted a discussion of Garrison's math andimplied that perhaps Ev wasn't telling everything. Could there be areasin the book that were slightly fudged to protect trade secrets? Doesanybody have any other "mistakes" from Garrison's book like this one? I don't mean to cast aspersions on a great rodmaker and author who hashelped the craft so much, but hell, he WAS (like us) a fisherman!! If it was me I'd hold something back.(Actually, if it was me I'd just lie to you while I pocketed your hardearned cash, but I also fish streamers from time to time.) ;^) Brian Brian,Garrison died more or less broke, I think Charmichael has made more fromhis friendship with Garrison than than the old Geezer ever did.Terry Ackland from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Sat Feb 22 21:59:39 1997 Sun, 23 Feb 1997 11:59:27 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: heat treatment When I first started building rods I adhered strictly to Garrisonstime/tempformula- tips 6mins @ 375degF? I found that the rods I was buildingwere sosoft. I thought at the time that a strip ended up softer using Garrisonstime/temp that I figured it must be a typo.Lets face it, 6 mins is a veryshort time.I believe that bamboo has the ability to absorb moisture readily and giveitup very slowly as part of its mechanism.I can remember my early rods could not be layed at an angle anddevelopedsets very quickly. I noticed the same problem with other builders of rodstothe Garrison book when I attended a gathering. I have seen a Garrison rod and it was not the colour you get for 6minutesin the cooker.I tried to get a similar message posted last spring but I got cut off and Idont think it made it.I understand there are guys out there that believe that going against thebook is a crime but I think it is doing Garrison a disservice if there is anerror in the book that produces rods that lack the performance of hisrods. Is there other builders out there that have drawn the same conclusionsoverthe years?Terry Ackland I can't say I've experienced this over the years as I haven't been at it that long, but I've made several rods in fairly quick succession and what you say is exactly what I found. I'm making the rods nodeless and started with the sort of times you mention and found the first couple realy soft.I now heat treat at 200c for circa 30mins and the latest one I'm current doing was longer again. The results are better. I've made a few rods of the same taper and the latest one was a completly different rod to cast, no doubt. All have been good, I just like the rods heated longer.I might add something about the climate here as it may have some bearing.As I mentioned, my rods are nodeless and are heated before scarfing into full lenght splines. The summers here in Perth are hot and dry, very little humidity and I usually have the section I'm working on go from the oven to binder in a few days so there's little time for moisture re- entry, though obviously some does occur. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from GLohkamp@aol.com Sat Feb 22 23:20:50 1997 Subject: Re: heat treatment Terry l heat treat for 60 min at 350 deg, turning once at 30 min. l get a betterthan slight color change . l feel it also keeps my rods from setting . lamhappy to see someone bring this up l wanted to take a poll on heat treatingtimes just to see what kind of range there was. l felt kinda embarassedafterwards because of my execssive time .l arrived at this time by useing the black pipe , after 15 min l had steamsomewhere around 60 min it stoped after l built the oven and had somecontrolover the temp and time thing 60 min seemed to be the number . l want toknowwhat the the high end and time is . l got some cane from powell rods youcanget it cooked or not the cooked culm was really dark much darker thananything l've done .So l know you can heat treat longer or hotter . Thanks Gary from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Sun Feb 23 00:13:03 1997 Sun, 23 Feb 1997 14:12:51 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: heat treatment After seening these heat related postings I thought I'd double check the article in Fine Woodworking Workshop Specialties by LU Beitz and reprinted in the Planing Form.Mr Beitz says he heat treats for 120min @ 350f. This seemed a tad high when I started reading up on what people were doing, but from what I've found and otheres have posted, this (extended?) time may be on the mark. Tony Terry l heat treat for 60 min at 350 deg, turning once at 30 min. l get a betterthan slight color change . l feel it also keeps my rods from setting . lamhappy to see someone bring this up l wanted to take a poll on heattreatingtimes just to see what kind of range there was. l felt kinda embarassedafterwards because of my execssive time .l arrived at this time by useing the black pipe , after 15 min l hadsteamsomewhere around 60 min it stoped after l built the oven and had somecontrolover the temp and time thing 60 min seemed to be the number . l want toknowwhat the the high end and time is . l got some cane from powell rods youcanget it cooked or not the cooked culm was really dark much darker thananything l've done .So l know you can heat treat longer or hotter . Thanks Gary /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Feb 23 01:13:02 1997 CAA18751 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 02:12:55 - Subject: heat treating I too found the Garrison heat treating temperatures inadequate. For myearliest rods I used a combination of flaming and then heating in a metaltube with a propane torch. Part of this I learned from a tour of the Orvisrod making plant about 35 years ago, and then later from Dave Reid ofMeaford, Ontario. Dave told me he learned the flaming process from PaulYoung. When Garrison's book first came out Dave began to combine bothstepsand said he was very happy with the results. Dave made some nice rods.Atfirst I welcomed Garrisons method. Then I discovered that his times werenot adequate to the job. What set me on the right track was someexperimentation with temperature and time. I cut several uniformsectionsof cane from between a wide set of nodes,, then baked them in my kitchenoven, for example, 300 degrees for 30 minutes, 300 degrees for 60minutes,350 degrees for 60 minutes, etc., etc. Then I bent them until theyfractured on the assumption that long fibrous fractures were better than abrupt fractures. I'm currently flaming my cane, then baking at 300 t0325degrees for 60 minutes with satisfactory results. Since the cane shrinksunder this treatment, I do all the heat treatment before final planing. Ithink you could use higher temperatures. from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Feb 23 01:48:34 1997 Subject: Re: tapers In a message dated 97-02-22 18:29:59 EST, you write: This is exactly why I said to use a smaller number for thespecific gravity of bamboo used in the calculation. Squarearea remains the same, diameter remains the same, butweight is reduced. I fail to follow you on the analogy of honeycomb construction.The honeycomb material is usually put between two flat sheetsof composite material and used in applications of wing or bodypanels. How does this apply to hollow rods? The strength gained side lending support to each other there by preventing collapseor crushing. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Feb 23 01:58:10 1997 Subject: Re: tapers In a message dated 97-02-22 20:49:36 EST, you write: This is true, but we are trying to calculate the stress at each pointof what is essentially a catilevered round (okay, hexagonal) beam.A hollow rod will have less weight exerting it's influence on the pointsbetween the point on the rod and the fixed end, therefore less stress and (for the same line weight) less deflection. This translates to the caster of the rod as a stiffer rod. Darryl Hayashida from rickcunn@tenet.edu Sun Feb 23 08:34:17 1997 Subject: Re: heat treatment On Sat, 22 Feb 1997, John Zimny wrote: I think that Terry is correct. But I think that 375F is really pushing it. Most of the lignins will begin to crystallize at around 365F. I think you can and should go longer. But, I'd stay just a hair below 350 F. You'll get the desirable effects without the danger of ruining your work.John John,I have access to a large convection oven in a cafeteria. Anysuggestions to the temperature setting and time in oven?Rick from cbogart@ibm.net Sun Feb 23 08:38:20 1997 JAA22605 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 09:39:18-0500 Priority: Normal Subject: The "Book" To all: Remember Garrison didn't write the book - Hoagy did! Chris from cbogart@ibm.net Sun Feb 23 08:54:28 1997 JAA22686 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 09:55:27-0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: tapers Darryl There are several different methods to hollow flute a rod.One is just to turn it into one big tube - then you are right. Anotheris to have small fluted sections with dams between them - Per Brandonhas a cut away of one of his rods that shows this - I prefer this way -just Also note how this method resembles the original culm. Chris from cbogart@ibm.net Sun Feb 23 08:58:37 1997 JAA22713 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 09:59:37-0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: heat treatment Rick Ah, the delightful smell of freshly roasted culm. John,I have access to a large convection oven in a cafeteria. Anysuggestions to the temperature setting and time in oven?Rick Chris from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Feb 23 09:33:50 1997 skywalker.microtec.net with SMTP id ; Sun, 23 Feb 199710:33:40 -0500 Subject: Re: heat treatment On Sat, 22 Feb 1997, John Zimny wrote: I think that Terry is correct. But I think that 375F is really pushing it. Most of the lignins will begin to crystallize at around 365F. I think you can and should go longer. But, I'd stay just a hair below 350 F. You'll get the desirable effects without the danger of ruining your work.John John,I have access to a large convection oven in a cafeteria. Anysuggestions to the temperature setting and time in oven?Rick I do not think the temperature setting is that important, it is thecombination of time and temperature. You could could use a lowtemperatureall day or a high temp for an hour, it depends what colour you want. 300Fmakes little difference in the colour but just an hour at 375F gives aconsiderable colour change.It is up to the individual to work out his own time/temp settings that hefeels comfortable with. After all we dont want to all be building the samerods.Terry Ackland from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sun Feb 23 09:38:08 1997 Subject: Heat Treatment - Why? To all, Like the thread on heat treatment - have done extensive testing of thevarious effects of time/temp. on the strength of the cane. Results wereinconclusive - tests were replicated in part by Tom Fulk with the sameresults. Everyone heat treats - does anyone know why other than color.Andif they know why they do it, how did they arrive @ the conculsion of whatsbest temp./time.It stands to reason that the cane would shrink thereby allowingeffectivelymore cane within a given diameter. But does the shrinking process makethecane more resistant to bending/greater dampening or what?Wish someone could come up with a definitive test. Am using 360 F @ 15 minutes now - like the color. Regards, Don from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Feb 23 09:57:05 1997 skywalker.microtec.net with SMTP id ; Sun, 23 Feb 199710:57:00 -0500 Subject: Re: The "Book" To all: Remember Garrison didn't write the book - Hoagy did! Chris Chris,The hilarious part of it all is there are guys out there that swear by thebook who should know better. I think before a perfect rod can be made a basic understanding of themediumis in order and that cannot be obtained through a laptop, or hanging aroundthis list.Terry Ackland from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Feb 23 10:14:14 1997 skywalker.microtec.net with SMTP id ; Sun, 23 Feb 199711:14:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Heat Treatment - Why? To all, Like the thread on heat treatment - have done extensive testing of thevarious effects of time/temp. on the strength of the cane. Results wereinconclusive - tests were replicated in part by Tom Fulk with the sameresults. Everyone heat treats - does anyone know why other than color.Andif they know why they do it, how did they arrive @ the conculsion ofwhatsbest temp./time.It stands to reason that the cane would shrink thereby allowingeffectivelymore cane within a given diameter. But does the shrinking process makethecane more resistant to bending/greater dampening or what?Wish someone could come up with a definitive test. Am using 360 F @ 15 minutes now - like the color. Regards, Don Don,Simply the removal of moisture, the colour is just a personal thing withme.Try to straighten a Garrison tempered rod, you just chase the moisture outof that particular area with the flame and the moisture wicks back and sodoes the twist. The differece between a correctly heat treated rod and onethat is not is huge. Terry Ackland from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Feb 23 10:47:04 1997 Subject: Re: heat treatment In a message dated 97-02-22 20:23:53 EST, you write: Is there other builders out there that have drawn the same conclusionsoverthe years?Terry Ackland Terry - Agree. Under certain conditions can observed steam issuing frommyoven, which at approx 360d f, it has done for 11 to 13 min or so. Regards,RTyree from DANNUGENT@aol.com Sun Feb 23 11:50:20 1997 0600 Subject: PLAINS AllAnybody ever herd of a Millers Falls 16 plain?A freind has one for sale and just woundering if ok for use on cane? THANKSDAN from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Feb 23 12:05:05 1997 Subject: Re: tapers In a message dated 97-02-23 09:55:48 EST, you write: The basic principle remains the same. You just have to decidewhat the average specific gravity is in each section of the rod. can enter a different S.G. for each inch if you want to. the it is worth the trouble. If I ever decide to make a 9 ft."Big Dog" rod I would hollow the butt and mid section, buton anything smaller I can detect no difference in a hollowor solid rod. Darryl Hayashida from jfoster@gte.net Sun Feb 23 12:08:51 1997 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id MAA20289 for; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 12:08:48 -0600 Subject: Re: heat treatment Terry I agree about not cloning. I don't heat treat as long on the rods that Iflame, however.. and if you're into pure blond...I've found a certainamout of heating helps with the planing jerry from rickcunn@tenet.edu Sun Feb 23 13:31:24 1997 Subject: Re: Heat Treatment - Why? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have been under the assumption that the purpose of heat treatment is to drive out unwanted moisture to achieve ideal bamboo characteristics.Rick from FFer4trout@aol.com Sun Feb 23 14:08:54 1997 Subject: Re: Reminiscing In a message dated 97-02-17 17:44:27 EST, you write: Subj: Re: ReminiscingDate: 97-02-17 17:44:27 ESTFrom: WayneCatt@aol.comSender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I too would like to thank Mike for all his efforts of the past twoyearsto keep us all connected. And I would also like to extend that thanks toJerry and the others that have put forth the effort to archive andpromotethe cause. I think that all have been surprised at the growth thatrodmakershas seen in that short time.I was finally able to meet Hoagy C. a few weeks ago at Somerset.BarryS. had told me that he was going to be there so I came prepared with mycopyofhis book. We had a great meeting - a wonderful person - he personalizedourbooks and we talked rods. You see we all have heros. I still think that hewas a little bit shocked though when Lyndi pulled out one of her rods to showhim.I would agree with Ralph that he is still the groups biggestinfluence thoughts ---- but I feel that there are many, Himself included, that haveadded greatly to advance the information about rod making.The best example I can give is this. I'm sure that each of us at onetimeor another have hide ourselves away in a secret spot and transportedourselves to become part of the words that we were reading - We weretheonethat had slain the dragon and rescued the princess.Several times over the past few years I have found myself magicallywatching a scene and thinking that I was there just as a visitor. Thisweekend I watched a mat sold a rod - talking to his client at the castingpond - telling him of the features and benefits of the rod that he hadmade - showing how the rod cast. It was as if I were reading a good novel andhadbecome a visitor to some imaginary world apart from my own. But therealworld was just unfolding before me and at times it's an unusual feeling.Perhpas dreams do come true.My wife and I have talked about it and the conversations always end withthe hope that in the end I will be the same person as when it all started.Ijust wanted to make a rod to go fishing with Wayne Wayne The latest issue of "American Angler" (March/April 97) has a nice shortarticle about bamboo rod building and a few modern builders that youshouldtake a look at. Written by David Klausmeyer. Don Burns from whensel@ix.netcom.com Sun Feb 23 14:35:54 1997 ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: How are we looked upon? Hear are some observations: I hang out at a fly shop that has a number of guys in it that fish bambo rods. However, I get the impression that I should not speak to loudly about bamboo rod making while custermers are in the shop. No one has ever said anything to me...but I get the sense that I should not push the subject to lodly.I went to a sports show this weekend with the wife. Most of the rod makers (plastic ones) seem to resent bambo rod makers. The only ones who showed a respect for us was the Winston Group who ofcourse produce some bamboo rods at a dear price.I wonder if any of you guys have any insights to this area or is it my imagination? P.S. got my seomd rod a 6"6" with Cat tapers raped today with a second 7'6" garrison soon to be done. Regards Bill from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Feb 23 14:40:31 1997 skywalker.microtec.net with SMTP id ; Sun, 23 Feb 199715:40:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Heat Treatment - Why? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have been under the assumption that the purpose of heat treatment is to drive out unwanted moisture to achieve ideal bamboo characteristics.Rick Right, I am just trying to find out who has found it necessary to modifythe time/ temp formula in "the book". The excellent piece on rodmaking inthe Wise Encyclopedia is more like it should be.Terry Ackland from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 23 14:51:19 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA21473 +0000 Subject: Re: tapers SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-02-22 20:49:36 EST, you write: not stiffer than a solid rod of the same diameter. Stiffness isproportional to the fourth power of the diameter in the case of a solidrod. In a hollow rod, the stiffness is proportional to the quantity[fourth power of the outer diameter minus the forth power of the innerdiameter]. >> This is true, but we are trying to calculate the stress at each pointof what is essentially a catilevered round (okay, hexagonal) beam.A hollow rod will have less weight exerting it's influence on the pointsbetween the point on the rod and the fixed end, therefore less stressand (for the same line weight) less deflection. This translates to thecaster of the rod as a stiffer rod. Darryl Hayashida Darryl, All true. I was simply clarifying a point on the physics of hollow vs.solid rods - cantilever beams. I am much too much of a rookie at the bamboo game to act as an expert. Isuspect, however, a couple of different things might be happening. Thepercieved greater stiffness of a hollow rod may be simply a fasteraction due to the absence of the rod core. In a solid rod, this core mayact as a damper, slowing down the rod's action/response to thefisherman's input (cast). Orvis discovered a similar situation on firsteneration versions of its new Trident rods (which you may know, have acoating incorporated to act as a damper). The other thing that may be happening, which you allude to, is thatthere is less weight, and therefore less inertia as a cast is made.Thus, at the end of the cast, the "quick stop" which unloads the rod'senergy does so in a more efficient manner. Either, or both of these may be happening to give the illusion of astiffer rod, when actually the rod is "crisper." When all is said and done, it seems that hollow rods are a good thing,and when I get my shop together, I intend to try out my theories. Best regards,Ed Estlow from ghilbers@earthlink.net Sun Feb 23 15:38:41 1997 0600 NAA12873 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 13:38:29 - Subject: New Guy Okay everyone, I'm the new kid on the block. I have never made a bamboorod before, so I have lots of questions. Like everyone else, I havedreams of my first effort being the epitome of perfection. I'm sure Iwill fall a bit short of this, but my plan is to help my self towardsthis goal, as much as possible, by doing my homework. I have aquiredseveral papers and have ordered "Hand crafting Bamboo Flyrods" by WayneCattanach. I have just about finished my planing form and have gatheredtogether most of the other tools I will need. Now for my question. Cane. I know I need Tonkin Cane, but whatdistinguishes a good piece from a not so good piece? The source that Ihave found is Charles H. Demarest, Inc. in New Jersey. I live inCalifornia. Is there anyplace on the west coast where I could get this.Maybe even go look at and learn a little more about. Also, any other tips any of you might be willing to share witha beginnerwould be appreciated. V/RGary Hilbers from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Feb 23 16:17:01 1997 Subject: Re: heat treatment Terry - Once, while using Nyatex, I made a boo boo. Instead of heat curingthe epoxy at 232d f for 3 hrs, as prescribed by Wayne, I was at 350d fsetting and discovered the mistake at around 2 hrs + 20 min. Talked toNyatex people, and they said "no sweat", just made it better. The bamboo,tho, was quite dark and with a bit of an umber hue. The rod now belongs toafamily member, gets moderate fishing exposure, and seems perfectly ok. Ithas had a couple of quite brisk fishing workouts and I assume it a good rodwith a long life ahead of it. It, by the way, is gorgeous. Just a two-centbit which may one day shed some light should it be fished more. Thisthreadshows there is a lot yet to be fully understood about working withbamboo.Thanks for starting the discussion. My heat treating is now done @ around350d f for a minimum of 15 minutes, but will probably decrease the tempa bitand increase the time.RTyree from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Feb 23 16:17:01 1997 Subject: Re: heat treatment In a message dated 97-02-23 10:35:37 EST, you write: But I think that 375F is really pushing it. Most of the lignins will begin to crystallize at around 365F. I John - not to argue, but for enlightenment only; what is the source of yourinfo here?Regards,RTyree from cbogart@ibm.net Sun Feb 23 16:37:43 1997 RAA26148 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 17:38:47-0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: The "Book" TerryFollowing the book blindly is like painting by numbers. Neither results in a masterpiece.There is the art and craftsmanship that the rodmaker imparts onhis work that really cannot be put into words. On Sun, 23 Feb 1997 10:56:56 -0500, ACKLAND TERENCE wrote: To all: Remember Garrison didn't write the book - Hoagy did! Chris Chris,The hilarious part of it all is there are guys out there that swear by thebook who should know better. I think before a perfect rod can be made a basic understanding of themediumis in order and that cannot be obtained through a laptop, or hanging aroundthis list.Terry Ackland Chris from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sun Feb 23 17:57:02 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Heat Treatment - Why? At 11:14 23/02/97 -0500, Don wrote:To all, Like the thread on heat treatment - have done extensive testing of thevarious effects of time/temp. on the strength of the cane. Results wereinconclusive - tests were replicated in part by Tom Fulk with the sameresults. Wish someone could come up with a definitive test. Am using 360 F @ 15 minutes now - like the color. Regards, Don Terry writes:Don,Simply the removal of moisture, the colour is just a personal thing withme.Try to straighten a Garrison tempered rod, you just chase the moistureoutof that particular area with the flame and the moisture wicks back andsodoes the twist. The differece between a correctly heat treated rod andonethat is not is huge. Terry Ackland Terry, If it was just the removal of moisture, leave the strips, like some of usdo, in the hot air ducting from our furnaces. They will not be any moistureleft in the strips after a month or so of 10% humidity and 140 F.Got to be more to this heat tempering than that - certainly for all theexcitement involved. + the cost etc.As far as moisture removal - wouldn't a natural material return to theenvironmental background levels of moisture after a certain period. Seemslike woods do - why not cane - even is coated with various substances -thewoods still return to their previous levels.How did you determine that there is a huge differnce between rods thathavebeen tempered correctly and those that are not. What are your test resultsand would you be willing to share the process you used to determine thebesttime/temp. If your test is as described - [ straightening a rod], I guess weare still in the great unknown. I believe that the cells of the cane actually change in some way with theapplication of heat. I do know that the lignun that binds the cells togetherdoes change from a sticky material to one that is more friable. Still don'tknow how to prove it that makes a good rod though. Can't wait for your test results Terry. regards, Don from fiveside@net-gate.com Sun Feb 23 18:10:21 1997 Subject: tapers Chris, it sounds like Darryl has the handle on tube stiffness, but thecentral question is why even in solid cane rods do we add to our weighthandicap by putting cane in locations where we don't need it? Bill from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Sun Feb 23 18:31:01 1997 Mon, 24 Feb 1997 08:30:53 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Heat Treatment - Why? On Sun, 23 Feb 1997, ACKLAND TERENCE wrote: To all, Like the thread on heat treatment - have done extensive testing of thevarious effects of time/temp. on the strength of the cane. Results wereinconclusive - tests were replicated in part by Tom Fulk with the sameresults. Everyone heat treats - does anyone know why other than color.Andif they know why they do it, how did they arrive @ the conculsion ofwhatsbest temp./time.It stands to reason that the cane would shrink thereby allowingeffectivelymore cane within a given diameter. But does the shrinking process makethecane more resistant to bending/greater dampening or what?Wish someone could come up with a definitive test.Am using 360 F @ 15 minutes now - like the color.Regards,Don Don,Simply the removal of moisture, the colour is just a personal thing withme.Try to straighten a Garrison tempered rod, you just chase the moistureoutof that particular area with the flame and the moisture wicks back andsodoes the twist. The differece between a correctly heat treated rod andonethat is not is huge. Terry Ackland Surely if the cane can be over heated causing (presumeably) a change in cell structure which will cause a brittling effect, while on the other hand, not heat treating will leave the rod limp the effects of heat treating is not only to drive out moisture but to alter the cell structure to that happy medium we're looking for.If you look at fire hardened arrow and spear points (I know cane isn't wood, but it may be a valid observation), these points remain hard even when wet. Also, if you try steaming wood to bend it and over do it with heat, or the wood goes cold before the bend is complete, re-steaming wont work with the same piece. It appears that heat alters the cells and it's largely a one way thing. That's not to say if a piece becomes wet again itwont be more pliable than dry, but wont be as much as if never heated in the first place. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from JCZIMNY@dol.net Sun Feb 23 18:46:04 1997 Subject: Re: heat treatment Rick Cunningham wrote: On Sat, 22 Feb 1997, John Zimny wrote: I think that Terry is correct. But I think that 375F is really pushingit. Most of the lignins will begin to crystallize at around 365F. Ithink you can and should go longer. But, I'd stay just a hair below 350F. You'll get the desirable effects without the danger of ruining yourwork.John John,I have access to a large convection oven in a cafeteria. Anysuggestions to the temperature setting and time in oven?RickRickI'd go in around 350 F try 20-30 min. Whatch for a medium color change on the outside. See what this does. With a convection you're not so much in dange of hot spots as are most of us.John from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Feb 23 18:50:18 1997 Subject: Re: Reminiscing Don -If you look in that same issue of American Angler (page 106, if theywerenumbered) you will see the ad I placed. They got the ad right but forgot theclassified that was to go with it. Speaking of articles - did you check outthe mid section of the rod shown in the article about Mike Clark. If youhaven't you might want to. As they say - what's wrong with this picture. from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Feb 23 18:50:26 1997 Subject: Re: heat treatment I quess that we all will get better insight into some of thecharacteristics of the material (bamboo) by some of our mistakes. I haveuseda 375 degree temp since the first - As Hoagy inscribed - one who read thisbook well. The change I made was sticking with one time period (7minutes). Itry to get the strips into the oven as fast as I can so the tip bundle andthe butt bundle don't differ that much in size. Before the heat treating Ihave flamed the culm - which physically reduces the moisture content.Wellone night I forgot about the little bundle of bamboo in the oven and when Idid remember it I found a charred mass. It only took 15 minutes.Rememberalso that I do additional heat treating when I thermal set the epoxy gluethat I use. An additional 3 hours at 235 degrees. Now I'm not saying the this is the only time/temperature combinationorthat it is the best. But I'm reluctant to change. As with many other areasofrod making I am trying to stay in as tight a tolerance window as possible.The looser the window of tolerances I keep the more variation I can expectinthe rods that I make.Terry brought up an interesting phenomenona about the Garrison rods.I'veonly heard rumors about this but I think that there are enough examples tomake a case. The rumor I heard is that they have a tendancie to twist - notnecessarily from heat treating effects but more from his staggeringmethod. Inever did use his method for that - I felt and still feel that the 2x2x2 isthe best. I think that it neutralizes the tensions of the opposing stripbetter. Larry Blan and I talked about the timing order stagger a couple oftimes - the thought there was that over time the strips will naturallyseekto return to their original shape and that if one starts the remainderfollowwith the 153624 stagger. In the 2x2x2 the strips are exactly opposite alikestrip with like tensions. I think that long term those that try this staggerwill see less return of this twist. Wayne from Global2u@aol.com Sun Feb 23 18:55:33 1997 Subject: Re: heat treatment How does on delet themselves from this e-mail distribution please. from JCZIMNY@dol.net Sun Feb 23 18:56:14 1997 Subject: Re: heat treatment Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-02-23 10:35:37 EST, you write: But I think that 375F is really pushingit. Most of the lignins will begin to crystallize at around 365F. I John - not to argue, but for enlightenment only; what is the source ofyourinfo here?Regards,RTyreeRichard,In answer. I used the U of Delaware Library to get all the work done onheating cane- very little.Then, I looked in to heating of wood. Then lignin. There are various typesof lignins in bamboo. All become crystalline at various temperatures. I guess our goal should beto cryastalize some, but not all of the lignins in the wood.Most of the stuff that I looked at was graduate work at the master anddoctoral level.John from sats@gte.net Sun Feb 23 19:08:10 1997 ; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 19:08:03 -0600 Subject: Re: Tung oil finish Jon, I appreciate the info on the Tung oil. I have been using varnish, but may try this on one of the rods I am rebuilding. Haven't been to the VFS chat lately, so have missed out talking with you. Hope things arewell. I've seen several of Jon's rods and they are works of art. The finishLooks good to me. I'm not as easy going as Jon is. My last attemptwas with tung oil, and I got as good results as my varnish. However,that's not saying much....... I do WIPE my rods though. I don't like brushing and although I haveairbrushes it's a hassle to clean them after each use.... Terry KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.sat@gte.net from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Feb 23 21:02:17 1997 skywalker.microtec.net with SMTP id ; Sun, 23 Feb 199722:02:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Heat Treatment - Why? At 11:14 23/02/97 -0500, Don wrote:To all, Like the thread on heat treatment - have done extensive testing of thevarious effects of time/temp. on the strength of the cane. Results wereinconclusive - tests were replicated in part by Tom Fulk with the sameresults. Wish someone could come up with a definitive test. Am using 360 F @ 15 minutes now - like the color. Regards, Don Terry writes:Don,Simply the removal of moisture, the colour is just a personal thing withme.Try to straighten a Garrison tempered rod, you just chase the moistureoutof that particular area with the flame and the moisture wicks back andsodoes the twist. The differece between a correctly heat treated rod andonethat is not is huge. Terry Ackland Terry, If it was just the removal of moisture, leave the strips, like some of usdo, in the hot air ducting from our furnaces. They will not be anymoistureleft in the strips after a month or so of 10% humidity and 140 F.Got to be more to this heat tempering than that - certainly for all theexcitement involved. + the cost etc.As far as moisture removal - wouldn't a natural material return to theenvironmental background levels of moisture after a certain period.Seemslike woods do - why not cane - even is coated with various substances -thewoods still return to their previous levels.How did you determine that there is a huge differnce between rods thathavebeen tempered correctly and those that are not. What are your testresultsand would you be willing to share the process you used to determine thebesttime/temp. If your test is as described - [ straightening a rod], I guessweare still in the great unknown. I believe that the cells of the cane actually change in some way with theapplication of heat. I do know that the lignun that binds the cellstogetherdoes change from a sticky material to one that is more friable. Still don'tknow how to prove it that makes a good rod though. Can't wait for your test results Terry. regards, Don Don, If you temper bamboo as "the book" the finished rod will be soft, putthe rod together and sight down the length and bend the tip section off toone side you will notice it will not return immediately to its orignalposition, it will have a set. This set is not permanent and the rod willstraighten over a short period. If you set the sections at an angle againsta wall, they will sag. The butt section if layed on a table will sag betweenthe points not in contact. I guessed that this problem would not produce avery snappy rod! Bamboo rods or any wood product will only stay straight, or open and closeif kept at the moisture content that it was manufactured at, this is thekeyto a rod that keeps its performance. This is why rods need to be refinised,the rods have been affected by the seasonal swings in humidity. The wrapsgive way and the ferrules loosen.It is very difficult to keep moisture variations out of a material that wasoriginally designed to carry moisture and nutrients, but it is possible. I have spent a great deal of time searching for a finish that suited thebamboo fly rod, which is a dynamic piece of equipment, not a static pieceoffurniture. I think that the old time professional builders had some tricks which theykept to themselves.Garrison was a self taught amateur builder, did he know the tricks? Did hekeep some tricks back?I am not sure if components of bamboo actually polymerise duringheating?probably not, if you re-introduce moisture it softens again. All I am prepared to say is that when I first started building rods, theywere junk, remember, I have had bamboo rods since I was a kid and theydidnot behave like the ones I was building.I am not a scientist, I have worked hard to produce a product whichsatisfies me, a product that is functional and pleasing to look at. I amvery excited about my new rods and some new equipment I have beenbuildingand feel that I am getting into a good position for when the youngeranglersshow an interest in cane, and it has started, but in the meantime I'll keepmy day job!Terry Ackland from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Feb 23 21:20:39 1997 skywalker.microtec.net with SMTP id ; Sun, 23 Feb 199722:20:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Heat Treatment - Why? On Sun, 23 Feb 1997, ACKLAND TERENCE wrote: To all, Like the thread on heat treatment - have done extensive testing of thevarious effects of time/temp. on the strength of the cane. Resultswereinconclusive - tests were replicated in part by Tom Fulk with the sameresults. Everyone heat treats - does anyone know why other than color.Andif they know why they do it, how did they arrive @ the conculsion ofwhatsbest temp./time.It stands to reason that the cane would shrink thereby allowingeffectivelymore cane within a given diameter. But does the shrinking processmake thecane more resistant to bending/greater dampening or what?Wish someone could come up with a definitive test.Am using 360 F @ 15 minutes now - like the color.Regards,Don Don,Simply the removal of moisture, the colour is just a personal thing withme.Try to straighten a Garrison tempered rod, you just chase the moistureoutof that particular area with the flame and the moisture wicks back andsodoes the twist. The differece between a correctly heat treated rod andonethat is not is huge. Terry Ackland Surely if the cane can be over heated causing (presumeably) a change in cell structure which will cause a brittling effect, while on the other hand, not heat treating will leave the rod limp the effects of heat treating is not only to drive out moisture but to alter the cell structure to that happy medium we're looking for.If you look at fire hardened arrow and spear points (I know cane isn't wood, but it may be a valid observation), these points remain hard even when wet. Also, if you try steaming wood to bend it and over do it with heat, or the wood goes cold before the bend is complete, re-steamingwont work with the same piece. It appears that heat alters the cells and it's largely a one way thing. That's not to say if a piece becomes wet again itwont be more pliable than dry, but wont be as much as if never heated in the first place. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/Tony, About 18 months ago I was sent back a rod because it was soft, Itooka look at it and soft was an understatement, you could tie a knot in it. Theguy had had it for several years with no problems I had never seenanythinglike it.I then took the tube out of the shipping carton and noticed that the brassend cap was black and corroded, I called the guy up and he started to goquiet when I suggested that the rod had been in water. What happened wasthat the guy kept it in a container that had water in it!I stripped all the fittings off and started to cook the sections and Icooked and I cooked but just could not get the spring back into it. I do notknow why.What I am saying is that water and moisture affects bamboo whether it isheat treated or not.Terry Ackland from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Feb 23 21:36:48 1997 skywalker.microtec.net with SMTP id ; Sun, 23 Feb 199722:36:40 -0500 Subject: Re: heat treatment I quess that we all will get better insight into some of thecharacteristics of the material (bamboo) by some of our mistakes. I haveuseda 375 degree temp since the first - As Hoagy inscribed - one who readthisbook well. The change I made was sticking with one time period (7minutes). Itry to get the strips into the oven as fast as I can so the tip bundle andthe butt bundle don't differ that much in size. Before the heat treating Ihave flamed the culm - which physically reduces the moisture content.Wellone night I forgot about the little bundle of bamboo in the oven and when Idid remember it I found a charred mass. It only took 15 minutes.Rememberalso that I do additional heat treating when I thermal set the epoxy gluethat I use. An additional 3 hours at 235 degrees. Now I'm not saying the this is the only time/temperature combinationorthat it is the best. But I'm reluctant to change. As with many other areasofrod making I am trying to stay in as tight a tolerance window as possible.The looser the window of tolerances I keep the more variation I canexpect inthe rods that I make.Terry brought up an interesting phenomenona about the Garrison rods.I'veonly heard rumors about this but I think that there are enough examplestomake a case. The rumor I heard is that they have a tendancie to twist -notnecessarily from heat treating effects but more from his staggeringmethod. Inever did use his method for that - I felt and still feel that the 2x2x2 isthe best. I think that it neutralizes the tensions of the opposing stripbetter. Larry Blan and I talked about the timing order stagger a couple oftimes - the thought there was that over time the strips will naturallyseekto return to their original shape and that if one starts the remainderfollowwith the 153624 stagger. In the 2x2x2 the strips are exactly opposite alikestrip with like tensions. I think that long term those that try this staggerwill see less return of this twist. Wayne Wayne, I guess your heat treatment is is the 3 hours @ 235. The 7mins @375is out of loyalty to Carmichael and Garrison. I mean that in a nice sort ofway.Terry Ackland from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Feb 23 21:59:59 1997 Subject: Tooling A while back I got involved with a project that might be of someinterestto other. A computerized beveler. The ultimate gadget. In my past I havedonesome robotics and a friend wanted to try something to lessen the planingtoproduce strips. The choice of a beveler over a mill becomes a fairly easychoice - a mill needs a pattern to hold the strips and the pattern is alsothe second half of the shear - the cutter is the other. To construct the beveler - two high speed spindles are needed with acommon drive - so that the cutters have the same speed. High speed routerspindles can be used. Then mount a stepper to drive the strip support - therise and fall of the stepper creates the dimensions of the strips. Thebladesare jewelers saws and are 2" in dia and the don't quite touch. The stripsaresawn butt to tip and they are originally planed to a standard thickness.To pull the strips through the beveler a DC wench is set up and the shaftis attached to an indexer. General Electric and Moticon have developed alanguage called Bouillon which can link the controls to a PC so the taperscan be downloaded into the unit with little change over time. I'm told it works good - I prefer the hand planing. The project cost acouple of grand with a lot of the special machining be done in house. Ihaven't checked lately but I imagine that the price of the index and stepperhas come down as with other computerish prices. Wayne from bub@harborside.com Sun Feb 23 23:09:11 1997 VAA25993 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 21:09:05 Organization: harborside Subject: new guy Hi Im anew guy too. I sugest you get a subscription to "the planingform" the address is:p.o. box 365 hastings MI. 49058. In it there is acane supplier in stockton CA. the place is called "Tuxedo cane" Phone #209-948-6508. give them a call and see what they offer. Im still in theprocess of getting all the needed tools and equip. to start makingbamboo rods. sounds like fun though. I already make custom graphite &glass rods and Ilike doing it a lot, so im looking forward to workingwith bamboo. good luck to both of us. from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Sun Feb 23 23:39:30 1997 Subject: Nodeless? Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is I am curious as to peoples feelings about nodeless rods. Pros, cons, and any other comments. Preferred glues and tips. I have read about it, everywhere I could but it seems like everyone has a preference. Jon from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Sun Feb 23 23:39:35 1997 Subject: Re: The "Book" Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is This whole discussion about following the "bible" as i have heard it phrased got me thinking. As someone just entering something that I consider to be larger than life, I wanted to comment just for a second from another perspective. Getting into everything involves information. I have tried to gather every ounce of info available within reason. I bought Wayne's book for a simple reason. Garrison's was a hard cover, selling for $70. Wayne's was cheaper. (no offense) But I read the book cover to cover more than a handful of times. To me...his book is a guide. I have already spoken with a number of people, some on this serve, and some not. And I have gained more information that I can even begin to process. Never having met or spoken with Terry, I would agree with his comments. TerryFollowing the book blindly is like painting by numbers. Neither results in a masterpiece.There is the art and craftsmanship that the rodmaker imparts onhis work that really cannot be put into words. I really hope that one day I can contribute a fraction of what some of you have, and that means deviation. Part of what attracted me to this whole thing was the aspect that I would never know everything. It is, in my eyes, an infinite learning process. And what made happier than anything, was everyone's willingness to help and share. More than likely I will follow the material I have in front of me somewhat blindly for my first rod, but I assure you, I will not stand behind a piece of information with that same blindness. Desire and focus is something my father told me to follow. I believe that it leads to uniqueness. After all, isn't that what we all are after. To leave a little bit of ourselves behind in our work. I may have strayed from my intended response, but let me just say thank you to everyone that has helped me thus far, and thanks in advance for those of you who will share in the future. Thanks.Jon LintvetIthaca College from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Mon Feb 24 00:59:01 1997 XAA01898; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 23:58:41 -0700 Subject: Re: new guy Hi Im anew guy too. I sugest you get a subscription to "the planingform" the address is:p.o. box 365 hastings MI. 49058. In it there is acane supplier in stockton CA. the place is called "Tuxedo cane" Phone #209-948-6508. give them a call and see what they offer. Im still in theprocess of getting all the needed tools and equip. to start makingbamboo rods. sounds like fun though. I already make custom graphite &glass rods and Ilike doing it a lot, so im looking forward to workingwith bamboo. good luck to both of us. Just a note of caution. In October I ordered cane from Tuxedo was told itwould be out in a few weeks. After several weeks and many unreturnedphone calls I called Demerest and had cane within a week. Not sure whatis going on with Tuxedo? They seemed fine on the phone but have notdelivered. Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado from bub@harborside.com Mon Feb 24 01:17:36 1997 XAA02166 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 1997 23:17:31 Organization: harborside Subject: Re: new guy Jim Fillpot wrote: Hi Im anew guy too. I sugest you get a subscription to "the planingform" the address is:p.o. box 365 hastings MI. 49058. In it there is acane supplier in stockton CA. the place is called "Tuxedo cane" Phone #209-948-6508. give them a call and see what they offer. Im still in theprocess of getting all the needed tools and equip. to start makingbamboo rods. sounds like fun though. I already make custom graphite &glass rods and Ilike doing it a lot, so im looking forward to workingwith bamboo. good luck to both of us. Just a note of caution. In October I ordered cane from Tuxedo was told itwould be out in a few weeks. After several weeks and many unreturnedphone calls I called Demerest and had cane within a week. Not sure whatis going on with Tuxedo? They seemed fine on the phone but have notdelivered. Jim Fillpot, Loveland ColoradoThanks for the warning. the last thing I want is more waiting to getstarted on a rod.leo bandon OR. from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Feb 24 06:59:10 1997 Subject: Re: heat treatment Richard,In answer. I used the U of Delaware Library to get all the work done onheating cane- very little.Then, I looked in to heating of wood. Then lignin. There are various typesoflignins in bamboo. All become crystalline at various temperatures. I guess our goal shouldbetocryastalize some, but not all of the lignins in the wood.Most of the stuff that I looked at was graduate work at the master anddoctoral level. John JohnThanks. Seems like an interesting subject, so guess I will now hit thebookson the subject at the local university.Richard from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Mon Feb 24 07:10:06 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA00955 for; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 08:10:04 -0500 Comments: Authenticated sender is Subject: San Jose area builders Priority: normal Hello all, It seems I'll be in the Bay area for a couple of weeks in April(14 - 25). If any of you are in the area and would be interested in meeting up, let me know. Also any fishing oppurtunities, if any, that are worth a try would be appreciated. ThanksTom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from FFer4trout@aol.com Mon Feb 24 07:10:07 1997 Subject: Re: Reminiscing In a message dated 97-02-23 19:52:48 EST, you write: Subj: Re: ReminiscingDate: 97-02-23 19:52:48 ESTFrom: WayneCatt@aol.comSender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Don -If you look in that same issue of American Angler (page 106, if theywerenumbered) you will see the ad I placed. They got the ad right but forgotthe> classified that was to go with it. Speaking of articles - did youcheckoutthe mid section of the rod shown in the article about Mike Clark. If youhaven't you might want to. As they say - what's wrong with this picture. Wayne, Do you mean - is that a dark reflection in the photo or is that a wideresorcinol glue line? Or do you mean look for the fuzzy sticking up from the lower wrap? Don from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Feb 24 08:21:05 1997 Subject: Re: tapers thecentral question is why even in solid cane rods do we add to >our weighthandicap by putting cane in locations where we don't need it? >Bill Bill - I bit my tongue after your first post to Chris, but can't bite downagain, At the risk of sounding impertinent, if you are worried about excessweight, how come you are building those steroid laced five strippers.Wouldn't a comparably stressed 6 strip weigh less?? :-) ---Tom from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Feb 24 08:45:23 1997 Subject: Re: heat treatment Wayne,I've been fishing a 7' for a 6 that I made with the 153624 stagger hardsince 1982. There is no sign of a return to the original twist. I am alsoflaming most of the rods now-I split out the strips and hit 'em with theregular sized head. This may do more heat treatment than I realized- thelastrod was in the oven @ 375+ for 15+ min. and was hard to straighten. I amgoing back to 350 for 30 min.Hope Marcia and I can make Grayrock this year.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Feb 24 08:45:27 1997 Subject: Re: Heat Treatment - Why? Tony, John, et al,I heat treated my last rod at 375+ deg. f. for 15 min. total. I noticedthat it took a much higher temp. to straighten and get the twist out,almostto the breakdown of the urac. I was trying for a 5 wgt. and got a 6 wgt. Asit was a 71/2' knockoff of a para 15 I feel that the high heat stiffened it. Now Iwonder how the rod will stand up over time.Hank. from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Thu Feb 27 10:09:31 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA17708 for; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:09:25 -0500 Subject: Planing forms complete Hello all, With all the new names showing up, I figured I tell my tale of acquiring planing forms. Its kinda long and boring. 1. Started making them out of maple as in Bruce Conners FAQ instructs. It was fun, but I just wasn't happy with the accuracy. So back to the drawing board.2. Buying already made ones. Available from a couple of sources, the best deal I saw was from Bootstrap, around $300, $65 for rough forms. Now, keeping in mind I have ovens to build, planes to buy, etc. This was a little to rich for my blood. So.... Here was my final mind fart:I called the local steel distributer looking for the 3/4" CRS bars. They didn't have any, but they had 7/8". Got three 6' bars for $37. I cut one in half for the rough form. I drilled the holes using shoulder bolts as in Bruce's FAQ for the wooden forms. I was extremely careful making sure everything was level, etc. Took several hours, but they came out great. Now for the hard part, the beveling. I called four machine shops, two said no way. One said he could do it but his mill only went 3' so he would have to reset everything and match up, very time consuming and he gets paid by the hour. The last one had the equipment (actually could do 16'!!!), and was pretty excited about it. Brought them to him and he did them up in 4 hours. The rough form he did on a Bridgeport, the other on the mother of all mills. The taper came out great, but.... when I got home and tried them on scraps the smallest peice I could get was .047". When I gave him specs. it was supposed to be .031'. I called him back and we decided that he'll take off 0.020" off the top. No problem. Machining cost $160. So, $200. and quite a bit of time drilling and draw filing, I've got my forms. Was it worth it??? Jury is still out, I learned alot, and I got that funny statisfying feeling knowing I made these. I guess it depends on how you value your time. Sorry to bore ya!! Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from santiago@ricochet.net Thu Feb 27 10:29:06 1997 Subject: Re: problems again GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU wrote: EveryoneSorry about this again. Looks like server got screwed up only three liststoday. Would one or two post to me to see if I have to do the drill. Sorryto everyone for the inconvenience.gerald(jerry)johnsongjflyfsh@uwyo.edu did i make it through? leo from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Thu Feb 27 13:55:22 1997 Subject: Hello... Just wanted to see if I was coming through. Haven't gotten very messages lately. Jon from hood@hpesdah.fc.hp.com Thu Feb 27 15:04:07 1997 palrel3.hp.com with SMTP (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA16630 for (1.38.193.4/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA17111; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:03:50 -0700 Subject: Some Numbers for Hollowbuilt Rods! Hollow building rods gives the promise of lighter, more responsivecasting tools; some believe that this promise may not be deliveredin lighter "trout" rods. Here's some data that may or may notanswer the question. Let's define a factor of hollowness as the fraction of the distance from the center apex toward the outside flat of a spline that isto be removed. A factor of 0.00 would be a solid rod; a factor of0.25 would be a spline that would mic three quarters of its originalthickness; and a factor of 0.50 would be a spline that would mic onehalf of its original thickness. These measurements are taken fromthe outside flat to the new flat created by hollowing. If thisfactor is H then the mass of a section would be reduced by H^2 andthe stiffness reduced by H^4; if H = 0.50 then mass is reduced by25.0% while stiffness is reduced by 6.25%; but what does this allmean to rod design? The first example, hollowing a rod while leaving all other roddimensions unchanged, shows an increase in stress of 6.6%, 1/(1-H^4),at the start of the hollow with the effect reducing the longer thehollow progresses due to less cane present to contribute to thebending moment. The second example, redesigning the taper based on the initial stresscurve while accounting for the effects of hollowing the butt section,shows how little increase in diameter is required to offset thereduced stiffness caused by hollowing. The weight differences in both examples are CANE WEIGHT ONLY; line,ferrules, reel & seat, grip, guides, etc. are not included in thepercent change. Neither rod would be 12-15% lighter; it would be0.3 ounce lighter! Moments at the 75" point, the end of the actionlength, are probably more telling as to the feel of the rod andonly amount to a change of ~3%. What do these numbers mean to thefeel of a rod; only building and fishing can tell that. Have fun. Davidhood@fc.hp.com Using Garrison's equations and Waynes 7'6" #5 rod as an example: Assumptions:Action length 75 feetCast length 40 inchesFerrule weight 0.22 ounces Rod:Stress0 0.0705 0.085 12406510 0.098 16617415 0.119 14378920 0.139 12523525 0.151 12813730 0.160 13646135 0.176 12686540 0.199 10687645 0.210 10956750 0.221 11566555 0.233 11934960 0.245 12248665 0.255 12823770 0.266 13217775 0.277 13590680 0.28485 0.28490 0.284 Moments at 75" point:Cane 158.7Total 347.4 Total weight of cane 2.29 ounces Using H of 0.50 from the 50" point to the 80" point and leavingall other rod dimensions unchanged: Rod:Stress0 0.0705 0.085 12406510 0.098 16617415 0.119 14378920 0.139 12523525 0.151 12813730 0.160 13646135 0.176 12686540 0.199 10687645 0.210 10956750 0.221 123279 +6.6%55 0.233 126717 +6.2%60 0.245 129236 +5.5%65 0.255 134261 +4.7%70 0.266 137203 +3.8%75 0.277 139803 +2.9%80 0.28485 0.28490 0.284 Moments at 75" point:Cane 146.3, -7.8%Total 335.1, -3.5% Total weight of cane 1.96 ounces, -14.4% Using H of 0.50 from the 50" point to the 80" point and derivingnew dimensions from the original stress data: Rod: w/ hollow butt 0 0.070 0.0705 0.085 0.08510 0.098 0.09815 0.119 0.11920 0.139 0.13925 0.151 0.15130 0.160 0.16035 0.176 0.17640 0.199 0.19945 0.210 0.21050 0.221 0.226 +2.2%55 0.233 0.238 +2.0%60 0.245 0.250 +1.9%65 0.255 0.259 +1.6%70 0.266 0.270 +1.4%75 0.277 0.280 +1.1%80 0.284 0.287 +1.1%85 0.284 0.287 +1.1%90 0.284 0.287 +1.1% Moments at 75" point:Cane 147.7, -6.9%Total 336.5, -3.1% Total weight of cane 2.00 ounces, -12.7% from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 27 16:24:43 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA456 +0000 Subject: Re: Some Numbers for Hollowbuilt Rods! David A. Hood wrote: . . .. . . Using Garrison's equations and Waynes 7'6" #5 rod as an example: Assumptions:Action length 75 feetCast length 40 inchesFerrule weight 0.22 ounces . . .. . . Cool! But did you mean Action length of 75 INCHES and Cast length or 40FEET? Of course, I live in an apartment and when I cast in here, thecasts are about 40 inches! Best regards, Ed Estlow from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Feb 27 17:17:25 1997 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA08795 for; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:15:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Some Numbers for Hollowbuilt Rods! hiya, Are action and cast lengths switched? Brian from cbogart@ibm.net Thu Feb 27 17:40:34 1997 SAA15618 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:41:13-0500 Subject: Re: Planing forms complete Tom Actually the story is worthwhile. We are really spoiled beingable to buy the quality of the final forms now avail for the price(s). Not so many years ago, there were no sources for these forms and everyonehad to go through you agony and pay alot more in most cases. Chris from olfart@atlanta.com Thu Feb 27 19:52:53 1997 Subject: Archives? Can someone post the URL for the rodmakers archives. Best regards,Dave -- Visit Dave Teffeteller's Fly Fishing Guides Home Pagehttp://www.olfart.com from Fquinchat@aol.com Thu Feb 27 20:33:01 1997 Subject: Re: hexrod Having trouble getting hexrod to run. After entering the data completelyandrequesting a calculation, it asks for data to be entered or something tothateffect. A help menu would be useful. Thanks, Dennis Bertram from whensel@ix.netcom.com Thu Feb 27 20:52:38 1997 ix9.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: problems again You wrote: EveryoneSorry about this again. Looks like server got screwed up only three liststoday. Would one or two post to me to see if I have to do the drill. Sorry to everyone for the inconvenience.gerald(jerry)johnsongjflyfsh@uwyo.edu Hello Jerry,I sent a message to you but think it got dumped out of the system. So I had to resubscribe. I gave my wife a 7'6" garrison taper today and I have to admit I never gave such a gift in my life. I put so much into it and to give it to her gave me great satisfaction. Today I have two 7'6" Garrison and one Catanach 6'6" taper which cast real sweet. I intend to build another 6"6" up and put it in my local fly shop on consenment. Then I will be out of bamboo. Boy the feeling that run through your body when you look a rod you made yourself is undiscribable. tight lines - Bill in Denver from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Fri Feb 28 01:51:19 1997 Fri, 28 Feb 1997 15:51:09 +0800 (WST) Subject: The tapers of Vince Marinaro I was able to read a small section of Vince Marinaro's "In The Ring OF The Rise" the other day and I was very interested in what Mr Marinaro had to say about his "ideal rod" which was a 4oz 9' tipy actioned cane rod.He went about this by making three sectioned rods where each section had a different "convex" taper. The butt had a modified, middle had a full and the tip had an abrupt convex taper.Does anybody out there know anything of these rods or the tapers? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from bub@harborside.com Fri Feb 28 04:08:09 1997 CAA14938 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 02:08:04 - Subject: Re: Hello... Jon Lintvet wrote: Just wanted to see if I was coming through. Haven't gotten verymessages lately. Jonhello jon, looks like you made it Oregon.leo in bandon from FFer4trout@aol.com Fri Feb 28 06:33:14 1997 Subject: Re: Planing forms complete In a message dated 97-02-27 11:14:54 EST, you write: Subj: Planing forms completeDate: 97-02-27 11:14:54 ESTFrom: Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORGSender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Hello all, With all the new names showing up, I figured I tell my tale of acquiring planing forms. Its kinda long and boring. Snip So, $200. and quite a bit of time drilling and draw filing, I've got my forms. Was it worth it??? Jury is still out, I learned alot, and I got that funny statisfying feeling knowing I made these. I guess it depends on how you value your time. Sorry to bore ya!! Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering Tom, Sorry for the long snip, but I didn't want to make this a real long reply. Sounds like you've helped some of the rest of us "newbies" out with yourefforts. Thanks for the feedback. I guess from my standpoint, Frank'sformssound like they're a good deal if you factor in your time and efforts. TLCnot withstanding. Don Burns from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Fri Feb 28 06:47:58 1997 Fri, 28 Feb 1997 20:47:30 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Planing forms complete On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 FFer4trout@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-02-27 11:14:54 EST, you write: Subj: Planing forms completeDate: 97-02-27 11:14:54 ESTFrom: Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORGSender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Hello all, With all the new names showing up, I figured I tell my tale of acquiring planing forms. Its kinda long and boring. Snip So, $200. and quite a bit of time drilling and draw filing, I've got my forms. Was it worth it??? Jury is still out, I learned alot, and I got that funny statisfying feeling knowing I made these. I guess it depends on how you value your time. Sorry to bore ya!! Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering Tom, Sorry for the long snip, but I didn't want to make this a real long reply. Sounds like you've helped some of the rest of us "newbies" out with yourefforts. Thanks for the feedback. I guess from my standpoint, Frank'sformssound like they're a good deal if you factor in your time and efforts. TLCnot withstanding. Don Burns I most certainly don't want to take business away from the people making an excellent product in metal planing forms, but anybody new to all this should keep in mind there are plenty of people making wooden PFs (and metal ones too) and are very happy with them. So if you're just starting and don't have the cash, don't be put off. Try making one your self to begin with and buy later. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from FFer4trout@aol.com Fri Feb 28 09:00:07 1997 Subject: Re: Some Numbers for Hollowbuilt Rods! In a message dated 97-02-27 16:11:35 EST, you write: Snip Let's define a factor of hollowness as the fraction of the distance from the center apex toward the outside flat of a spline that isto be removed. A factor of 0.00 would be a solid rod; a factor of0.25 would be a spline that would mic three quarters of its originalthickness; and a factor of 0.50 would be a spline that would mic onehalf of its original thickness. These measurements are taken fromthe outside flat to the new flat created by hollowing. If thisfactor is H then the mass of a section would be reduced by H^2 andthe stiffness reduced by H^4; if H = 0.50 then mass is reduced by25.0% while stiffness is reduced by 6.25%; but what does this allmean to rod design? snipped again Interesting. I assume that if you consider that cane isn't a homogeneous material likesteel etc. (weak core - strong outer power fibers), then the effects wouldbeeven less? If the sp. density varies in like manner, then the wt. reductionwould also be less than expected too. Don Burns from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Feb 28 09:35:42 1997 Subject: Re: Re: The tapers of Vince Marinaro At 15:51 28/02/97 +0800, Tony wrote:I was able to read a small section of Vince Marinaro's "In The Ring OF The Rise" the other day and I was very interested in what Mr Marinaro had to say about his "ideal rod" which was a 4oz 9' tipy actioned cane rod.He went about this by making three sectioned rods where each sectionhad a different "convex" taper. The butt had a modified, middle had a full and the tip had an abrupt convex taper.Does anybody out there know anything of these rods or the tapers? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ You too!!! Would like to try this taper out too - seemed like a winner forspring creeks. Any help out there in radio land? Don from angel@atlantis.neu.sgi.com Fri Feb 28 10:05:25 1997 17:05:21 +0100 (MET) (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI) RAA16179; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 17:05:20 +0100 17:05:19 +0100 Subject: Cattenach's book Hello Can someone tell me where, in USA, can I order the Cattenach's book"Handcrafting Bamboo Flyrods" and how much should I pay it. Thanks. from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Fri Feb 28 12:22:05 1997 LAA25755; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 11:21:47 -0700 Subject: Heat treating I have enjoyed following the thread on heat treating and would like tothrow a out a couple of ideas I have recieved from some Colorado builder. It seems one of the problems is determining if enough of the moisture hasbeen removed from the cane, one of the builders I spoke with this weeksaid that after heat treating and rough planhe heat treats his cane beforesplitting at @ 350 degrees for 20 min. then after splitting and roughplanning he put a bend in the rod and lets it set overnight. If the rodtakes a set he throws it out and starts over. The other builder planes down to @ .015 of final deminsion the heat treatsaccording to Garrison times and temps, he feels that it removes more ofthe moisture because of the smaller amount of cane being treated. He alsoheat sets his nyatex according to Waynes book. Has any one out there tried putting a set in their rods? Or do you haveanother suggestion for determining if enough moisture has been removed? Any further comments will be appreciated. Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Feb 28 15:05:40 1997 Subject: Re: Heat treating In a message dated 97-02-28 13:23:31 EST, you write: I don't do it anymore because I tested my heat treat method when I was trying to figure it out, but I used to weigh thebamboo on a reloaders powder scale. I heated it until theweight stopped dropping. No more weight loss - all themoisture is gone. Darryl Hayashida from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Feb 28 16:29:09 1997 Subject: Garrison Rod I have seen a few Garrison originals over the years, today I got a chance tocast one. It was a 7 1/2 foot 204 in great condition. It was an early rod,not glued with resourcinal, and a non-super Z ferrule. The workmanship isimpeccable.The good news for us building these rods today is that it felt just like theGarrison rods being built today. The cane did appear darker than 350degreesin my oven for 6 minutes would produce, as Terry suggested last week.About10 minutes in my oven produces the same color, and I go a bit higher intemperature. Personally, I think every type of oven works a littledifferent,and we just have to experiment to get what we want. P.S. The price tag was in the 10G range, if you are feeling flush.-------Tom from sats@gte.net Fri Feb 28 16:37:31 1997 ; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 16:37:27 -0600 Subject: quiet Is the list server down, or have I "fallen off the lists" Terry KirkaptrickSafety Harbor, flSats@gte.net from ghilbers@earthlink.net Fri Feb 28 17:27:22 1997 PAA11824 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 15:25:06 - Subject: Re: Cattenach's book Angel Contreras wrote: Hello Can someone tell me where, in USA, can I order the Cattenach's book"Handcrafting Bamboo Flyrods" and how much should I pay it. Thanks. Angel;Funny you should mention this. I just got a copy in the mail about fiveminutes ago. I ordered it from The Anglers Art. The number is800-848-1020 and the price is $36.95. It took exactly a week to gethere. Gary Hilbers from FFer4trout@aol.com Fri Feb 28 17:45:19 1997 Subject: Re: Cattenach's book In a message dated 97-02-28 11:06:51 EST, you write: Subj: Cattenach's bookDate: 97-02-28 11:06:51 ESTFrom: angel@atlantis.neu.sgi.com (Angel Contreras)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Hello Can someone tell me where, in USA, can I order the Cattenach's book"Handcrafting Bamboo Flyrods" and how much should I pay it. Thanks. Angel, The price is $40.00 (US$) plus shipping. Try: Angler's WorkshopP.O. Box 1044Woodland, WA 98674(360) 225-9445FAX (360) 225-8641http://www.anglersworkshop.comemail ----> info@anglersworkshop.com Also: Bob Marriott's Flyfishing Store2700 West Orangethorpe AvenueFullerton, CA 92633(714) 525-1827http://www.bobmarriotts.com email ---> bmfsinfo@bobmarriotts.com And maybe Wayne will sign a copy and sell direct? Don Burns from whensel@ix.netcom.com Fri Feb 28 17:48:24 1997 ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Garrison Rod You wrote: I have seen a few Garrison originals over the years, today I got a chance tocast one. It was a 7 1/2 foot 204 in great condition. It was an early rod,not glued with resourcinal, and a non-super Z ferrule. The workmanship isimpeccable.The good news for us building these rods today is that it felt just like theGarrison rods being built today. The cane did appear darker than 350 degreesin my oven for 6 minutes would produce, as Terry suggested last week. About10 minutes in my oven produces the same color, and I go a bit higher intemperature. Personally, I think every type of oven works a little different,and we just have to experiment to get what we want. P.S. The price tag was in the 10G range, if you are feeling flush.-------Tom Tom, I have recently built the 7'6" Garrison (two of them)just finished one of them yesterday a gave it to my wife for her/our 3rd anniverary which is on the 15 of March. I like the fact that my Garrison rod hasgood backbone and seems to start to load with about 25 feet of line.10,000 dollars man what a sum of money, if Gary new that he would be shacking his head and wondering what the world was changing into.I also built up a Cat. Taper 6"6" rod and man it is sweet. Regards Bill in Denver from fiveside@net-gate.com Fri Feb 28 18:24:40 1997 TAA16620 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 19:24:29 - Subject: Tapers Hi Tom, 2/27/97This is a rehash of my previous message lost in transmission. You chideme right. Pentas weigh about 15 percent more than their equivalent hex usingGarrison's standard stress curve. But I very much like the way fivers fish.All the more reason then to use computer tapers rather than empirical(trial& error) designs. Per Garrison, rods designed to the designer's preferredstress curve will perform best and be lightest. My five siders are all seven foot six or less so even with arthritis I canhandle them, but with time I'll be using Chris' fluting for sure. Bill from cbogart@ibm.net Fri Feb 28 18:25:21 1997 TAA29270 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 19:26:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Garrison Rod Tom That was a bargin - you should of scoffed it up and fished it hard! Chris from jfoster@gte.net Fri Feb 28 19:56:34 1997 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id TAA07915 for; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 19:56:30 -0600 Subject: Re: hexrod Dennis Hexrod is a tool to allow you to quickly see the stress curve for agiven taper. It will also produce a taper (albeit garrison ) and astress curve given only the tip and butt dimension.. I agree that a help function is desirable..I may have to include that asa seperate page.. The new version is almost ready for release and itshould be a lot easier to run.. The basic problem is that it's not intended to be a training tool, it'skind of a research and evaluation tool, assuming that you have some baselevel rod you want to evaluate and dink with.The new version will allow you to change the dimensions on a 1 ininterval basis and see the resulting change in the stress curve withoutre-enering the data completely..The current version doesn't do that. don't know if this helps or not.If you have sepecific questions pleaseask away Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Fri Feb 28 20:04:00 1997 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id UAA29728 for; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 20:03:57 -0600 Subject: Re: hexrod WOWIf you haven't run into it before check out L W's in the links list..knock you socks off international links.. Jerry from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Feb 28 20:59:43 1997 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA01581 for; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 21:57:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Heat treating Hiya, Along this line . . .I check all the wood I use in furniture building with a digital moisturemeter. Is there an "ideal" % moisture for cane to be at before glue- upand finishing? Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Feb 28 21:07:17 1997 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA01737 for; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 22:04:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Garrison Rod Tom, Did it make your back crawl just a little to cast a $10K rod? Icouldn't do it, be too nervous! Brian from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Feb 28 23:12:05 1997 Subject: Re: Garrison Rod Locally Tom Clark has 3 of the 6 model 193 - Tom can say 25 thousandwithsuch grace from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Feb 28 23:12:14 1997 Subject: #100 Occassionally there are those that finish there first rod that willshare that with the list. Well, earlier this evening I started my 100th rod.Fifteen years ago I questioned whether I would ever get the first onefinished let alone a hundred. There were many nights that I would shut offthe lights in the basement and finally make it to bed only to wonder if Ihadn't started something that I may not be able to finish. It doesn't seemlike it's been that long ago.On the Winston Waters tape, Glen Brackett talks of reaching thatmilestone in his career. Gary Howells had introduced him to rod makingandlike the rest of us Glen had all the questions. Apparently Gary, at one pointin time, told Glen that after he had made his 100th rod to ask hisquestionsagain. Glen doesn't talk of it further. It seems that as we mature atsomething the why questions sort of transend into knowledge but yet somequestions remain - only our focus is keener. I've often said that if I canonly tell all the things that went wrong - you would have to be creative incoming up with 'new' mistakes.The next 100th for me will be the number of students that I've taughtrod making first hand - to date there are 67. In the classes the excitementstarts about wednesday with the gluing of the first sections. Up to thatpoint the tension can be felt as everyone struggles with the newexperience.And for some that excitement will last a lifetime. I know that I'm stillcaught up with it myself - it has become food for the soul.Now I've got it figured that in making each rod about 8 cubic feet ofshavings are generated - that means that I've planed away 3 dump truckloadsto make about 20 pounds of fly rods. Gee - a culm weights from 7 1/2 to 9pounds - I could have saved some time and just slapped a few guides on acouple of culms. And speaking of time - I figure that I've missed 5000hours(or there 'bout) of laying on the couch and watching TV. Wayne