from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Aug 1 06:38:41 1996 ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 06:38:38 -0500 test-header: [Fallcreek9@aol.com] rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 07:39:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Color Preserver In a message dated 96-07-31 22:34:33 EDT, you write: Len,Richard et al I was wondering about the compatibility of Brilliance with spar varnish.Is anyone having any film adhesion problems with the two coating used in conjunction? John John:I`ve had no problems using Brilliance with McCloskys Man-O-War spar.RTyree from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Aug 1 09:33:35 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA01976 for; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:33:31 -0500test-header: [stetzer@csd.uwm.edu] JAA29810 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:32:44 - Subject: Re: Color Preserver On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 96-07-31 17:46:23 EDT, you write: What other types of color preservers do some of you use? What kind of results to you get? Am Inot using enough preserver? Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu Hello Mac:I have been using Clemens "Brilliance" Color Sealant for my preserverneeds.It is awhite, thick material that dries clear. I've often thought that it isthinned Elmers Glue, I tried Clemens "Brilliance" when it first came out (~1978?) and thought, "This looks and smells like thinned Elmers Glue". Since then,I've used Elmers thinned with water on few rods and it seems to workfine. I also have a big bottle of another PVA adhesive a friend gaveme. He brought it home from work, where it is used to coat windingsin big power-line transformers. Thinned with water it makes a goodcolor preservative.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@csd.uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from rgriff@tcac.com Thu Aug 1 11:06:09 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA07604 for ;Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:06:08 - 0500test-header: [rgriff@odin.tcac.com] odin.tcac.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id LAA69130 for; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:09:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Welcome aboard Ron! Ron! So you finally made it here. Good-oh! (as they say) I've been prettyquiet here for a while, but that may change soon. Have fun! Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net Bruce,Thanks for the welcome. I look forward to reading what you have tosay.Meantime, I wonder if you could help me out a little. Due to some computer problems (that's why this reply is so late), Ilost my access route to the rodmaker's archives and can't seem to find itagain. I wonder if you could supply a web address?Thanks, Ron from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Thu Aug 1 11:46:58 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA09993 for; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:46:55 -0500 test-header: [bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us] Subject: Archives Address You can find the archives at:http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htmBob Berry from bconner@cybercom.net Thu Aug 1 13:47:57 1996 ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:47:34 -0500test-header: [bconner@cybercom.net] OAA11604 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:46:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Welcome aboard Ron! Ron, Here is the link to Gordon's page which is a good place to start foreverything. It also has the archives on it. http://www.teleport.com/~gord/canelink.shtml Have fun! Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Thu Aug 1 16:52:23 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA27081 for; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:52:21 -0500 test-header: [bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us] Subject: Impact factor? To Wayne or othersAn impact factor of 4, is that a magic number or can it be changed todesign a different rod. It appears to me that if you lower this value youwouldcompromise the strength (safety of not breaking in on a dynamic load) oftherod. Increasing it would give you a 2" c bobb c from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Thu Aug 1 17:15:41 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA28008 for; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:15:39 -0500 test-header: [bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us] Subject: Impact Factor? To Wayne or othersThe impact factor of 4, is this a standard accepted number or can it bechanged? It appears that if you lower the number you would compromisethestrength of the rod (it would fail at maximum dynamic load). If thenumberwas raised, you would have an over built rod that would stiff and heavy.Have you ever changed this number to see what would happen? I havealwaysdisliked "the magic number". Tell me what you think Bob Berry from cbogart@ibm.net Thu Aug 1 18:23:05 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA00168 for; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:23:03 -0500test-header: [cbogart@ibm.net] head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA02386; Thu, 1 Aug1996 19:22:18 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: More Oven Stuff John You're right about Milwalkee - About two years ago Wagnerbought the heat gun side of things and things haven't been the same.Just call the 800 help line and see who answers - I returned the onethat I bought. All they're interested in is homeowners stripping paint.I ended up taking a splurge and bying a Stienel - They also make the high end Bosch ones. They call it a variable temp electronicallycontrolled head gun. Good points it has two fan speeds, cool down setting,LED readouts for temp range - a whole range of attachments and best ofall - will stand by itself on the workbench in an upright position. 15317 Mtks, Inc. Rd., Minnetonka, MN 55345 Tel 612-931-3029. Chris from hadn@chevron.com Thu Aug 1 18:44:35 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA00893 for; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:44:33 -0500test-header: [hadn@chevron.com] (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:43:50 -0700 Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:43:50 -0700 Subject: RE: More Oven Stuff 4.0.838.14Encoding: 33 TEXT John You're right about Milwalkee - About two years ago Wagnerbought the heat gun side of things and things haven't been the same.Just call the 800 help line and see who answers - I returned the onethat I bought. All they're interested in is homeowners strippingpaint.I ended up taking a splurge and bying a Stienel - They also make the high end Bosch ones. They call it a variable tempelectronicallycontrolled head gun. Good points it has two fan speeds, cool downsetting,LED readouts for temp range - a whole range of attachments and best ofall - will stand by itself on the workbench in an upright position. 15317 Mtks, Inc. Rd., Minnetonka, MN 55345 Tel 612-931-3029. Chris This heat gun sounds exactly like the one I got at Sears. Exact samefeatures, but it did cost $99.95. It really has come in handy though,with the variable heat range and knowing what the temp is fromthe LED read out. Darryl Hayashida from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Aug 1 19:51:40 1996 ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 19:51:37 -0500 test-header: [WayneCatt@aol.com] rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:50:35 -0400 Subject: What would you do ???? I hope that I'm not putting anyone on the spot here - But imagine youlived outside of the US (some of you do) and you wanted to start makingbamboo fly rods. What would you do as far as final planing forms - binder-and the other needed tools and materials that are readily available here inthe States? What advice would you give to someone in this position? Wayne from bconner@cybercom.net Thu Aug 1 22:17:46 1996 ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:17:21 -0500test-header: [bconner@cybercom.net] XAA28841 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:11:30 -0400 Subject: Help! Help! MIME-Version: 1.0From: owen@davies.mv.comSubject: Help! Help! Arrrgh! I forgot to stop my lists while away, and itlooks like I got bumped from the rod-builder's list whenthe mailbox got full. Worse yet, I can't find thesubscription address. Could you please remind me where tosend the message? Sorry to bother you personally, but I figured that if Iput the question on r.o.f.f you'd probably be the onewho answered it anyway. And I'm desperate. Many thanks. Owen Hey Mike, Help this poor soul to get back into the heaven that is our rodmaking list.:') Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from bconner@cybercom.net Thu Aug 1 22:24:15 1996 ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:23:55 -0500test-header: [bconner@cybercom.net] XAA29694 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:23:05 -0400 Subject: Re: What would you do ???? I hope that I'm not putting anyone on the spot here - But imagine youlived outside of the US (some of you do) and you wanted to start makingbamboo fly rods. What would you do as far as final planing forms - binder-and the other needed tools and materials that are readily available hereinthe States? What advice would you give to someone in this position? Wayne Hardwood forms, Record Plane (England) or make a wooden one? (yow!),Milward binder with a leather belt if you can't mail order it, You'd haveto order the Hock blade... Use glass as a scraper, hide glue if you can'tget something better. How far out in the boonies are we talking about?The USPS has a pretty good rate for overseas shipping for the small stuff. Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Thu Aug 1 22:58:29 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA07874 for; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:58:26 -0500test-header: [tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au] LAA11676; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:57:40 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: What would you do ???? On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Bruce Conner wrote: I hope that I'm not putting anyone on the spot here - But imagine youlived outside of the US (some of you do) and you wanted to start makingbamboo fly rods. What would you do as far as final planing forms -binder -and the other needed tools and materials that are readily available hereinthe States? What advice would you give to someone in this position? Wayne Hardwood forms, Record Plane (England) or make a wooden one? (yow!),Milward binder with a leather belt if you can't mail order it, You'd haveto order the Hock blade... Use glass as a scraper, hide glue if you can'tget something better. How far out in the boonies are we talking about?The USPS has a pretty good rate for overseas shipping for the smallstuff. Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net This is my first foray into this group, and I thank Wayne for prompting the question. The boonies I'm concerned with is Australia :-).Things like planes, glues, etc are no problem, but planing forms are a real hasle due to very expensive frieght and duties.My plan was to make hardwood forms with brass on the planing surfaces, but I'm not certain as to how that would realy work because of the lack of lateral resistance though the brass would help. Anybody have anycomments? Nice to be here. Regards Tony. from jfoster@gte.net Thu Aug 1 23:21:24 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA08804 for; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:21:22 -0500test-header: [jfoster@gte.net] SMTP(1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA040129522; Sat, 27 Jul 1996 15:32:02 - 0500 Subject: Re: Archives? wayne good idea, thanks,yes,yes To continue my political positioning... I think it's a great idea to invite a manufacturer's with there ware's to the meetings. After all don't some of YOU qualify as Pro's. I thought the Demerest's were a great idea. Also, like the Demerest's, I think they ( the whomevers) should contribute more than just hawking their products. As for any explanations, examples, etc. from you or any authoritative source, I'll find space on the page..As we've discussed before if you provide the input detail, I can assist Ark. was a family reunion deal ( wifes'). We were at Lake Cathrine..Hotsprings area... Bluegill, Crappie, etc. I did see one trout (and I did scare it). Spent most of my time teaching the the younger generations how to flyfish and lighten up on the earth products. At least no-one brought any stinkbait..They were all amazed that barbless caught fish. Maybe at least I got a few converts to barbless worms. I sure crimped a lot of hooks.. Much to their chagrin.I'm going to stay at Dale and Rona's in Oct.They said to say "Hi" when I droped in on the way back from the rock jwf from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Aug 1 23:57:49 1996 ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:57:48 -0500 test-header: [WayneCatt@aol.com] rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 00:59:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Impact Factor? This may be somewhat of a 'Jack Pine Savage' answer to the impactfactorquestion. It goes back to when I built (made) our home some years ago. Ihaving grown up on a farm and working in and around barns I alwaysenjoyedthe look and feel of timber construction. So when my wife and I decided tobuilt (make) a house - I (with her blessing) settled on a beam and timbermodified A frame. Well that was back when 'Jimmy' was pres - andmortagemoney hit 22% that year. As I have mentioned eariler I'm a DYI type person(Oh by the way that is typed correctly - you guys all missed it last time -it's DO YOURSELF IN). To satisfy the township I created a engineering bookofthe beam loading so I was essentially using the same math the Mr.Garrisonused but was applying it as was intended. Well because all the beams werecut from local white pine - we (the township and I) had a little spat about thestructural values of the timbers. You see I cut my house with a chainsaw.Well for a bailout I contacted a friend who actually finished college andhadhis registry. Through our discussions I got a better insight than just achart in a book.The way the math is used by the different code agencies isstandardized- but because of the different species of lumber and the different gradesoflumber available each code agency has through testing developed differentf(extreme fiber in bending) charts. The 'numbers' are set throughdistructivetesting of impact loads (the kids jumping on the floor) and have a certainamount of safety factor built in. My favorite term is a 'fudge' factor.Normal design practice is to use the charts as a standard. A closer example would be when the design is done to the 'plasticlimit'that is design a situation to it's point of fatique(breaking point) thenapply a safety factor to this.The way the math works is - the loads are calculated into moments andthen divided by the factor(unit stress) yielding required sectional modulus(amount of material). That's familiar enough - by the way Mr. Garrisonchoseto use the typical - case V - cantilevered beam designJust to do some comparitive shopping,form the charts, Eastern WhitePinehas a f of 1075 psi or by multiplying by 16 to convert psi to inch ouncesthevalue would be 172,000. Gee - doesn't that look like the same range valueofbamboo???Now Bamboo rod design could have easily been done to the 'plastic limit'using moments with out impact factors - but then the values of thematerialwould have to be adjusted accordingly. the 'fudge' used would then be thediscresion of the maker. this is why I call Mr. Garrisons math a ruler -other methods could have been developed - it (the math) is a deviationfromthe normal use - but it works (???) Wayne from khube@benmeadows.com Fri Aug 2 06:38:48 1996 GAA18706 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 06:38:47 -0500test-header: [khube@benmeadows.com] ESMTP id HAA19273 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 199607:38:05 -0400 (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA17478 for; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 07:38:02 - 0400 Subject: Tony Young's Supply Problem Tony......................When I started trying to get my tools gathered, itwas the early 1970's in a small town in middle Tennessee. Nobody had aclueas to what I was trying to do. So, I just built things as they were needed. The planing form was made by fitting aluminum angles to pine 1"x2" strips5- feet long. This just happened to be what the hardware store hadavailable.The groove was made with a file and checked with a standard 60- degmachinistgauge. This is a fixed form...ie, no adjustments. You have to slip thespline up and down the groove to get what you want, but I never found thatto be a problem. In fact, I was planing on the same form last night !! Yourbrass idea should work just as well. You may have to heat treat with a propane torch and bind by hand initiallylike many of us have. Only this year have I finally assembled a Garrisontype binder from standard hardware parts with no machining required. Awooden chasis and plastic pulleys are used. The main drive wheel is apulleymade for use with a clothes line......complete with ball bearings !! Just jump in because you will be amazed at what you can turn out withminimum low-tech home built tools. After many years of not building, thisgroup has helped me solve several problems in a short time. For example,DonAnderson talked me through making drive belts that have my binder going,several folks got my ferrule glue situation straightened out, and over thelast two days John Zimny and others have kept me from spending good cashona bad heat gun and Frank Nuenemann shared his oven design informationwithme. These guys are scattered over Canada, USA, and Germany !! Good luck... Karl HubeMarietta, GeorgiaUSA from bconner@cybercom.net Fri Aug 2 07:59:20 1996 ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 07:59:19 -0500test-header: [bconner@cybercom.net] IAA01521 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:58:26 -0400 Subject: Re: What would you do ???? This is my first foray into this group, and I thank Wayne for promptingthe question. The boonies I'm concerned with is Australia :-).Things like planes, glues, etc are no problem, but planing forms are areal hasle due to very expensive frieght and duties.My plan was to make hardwood forms with brass on the planing surfaces,but I'm not certain as to how that would realy work because of the lackof lateral resistance though the brass would help. Anybody have anycomments? Nice to be here. Regards Tony. Take a look at the FAQ (http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.html)there isa section on making wooden forms. I use them all the time, no problemswith lateral stability and if you recess the the bottom of the plane usingeither Wayne's technique or mine, the plane won't hit the forms so you candispense with the brass faces and make it that much easier on yourself. Not too familiar with the hardwoods available in Oz. A fine grainfruitwood like apple or pear would probably substitute well enough for themaple. What sorts of woods do you have? Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Aug 2 08:21:57 1996 ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:21:54 -0500 test-header: [TSmithwick@aol.com] rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:23:42 -0400 Subject: Re: What would you do ???? Tony Young writesMy plan was to make hardwood forms with brass on the >planing surfaces, but I'm not certain as to how that would realy work because >of the lack of lateral resistance though the brass would help. Anybody >have anycomments? Tony,My rod building buddy has used a wood/metal composite form for yearswith noproblems. He used a 1/2 inch aluminum angle to cover the planing surfaceon 1x 2 pine. You can rig a push pull mechanism by using bolts and nuts for thepull, and tapping through the wood and metal for the push. Not veryelegant,but it works, and so would your scheme. If you have access to a drillpress,I would consider making a set from 3/4 inch square steel bar. It's a littlemore work than wood/ metal, but worth it. Tom Smithwick from TOM@sp1.hitchcock.org Fri Aug 2 08:57:46 1996 IAA23219 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:57:45 -0500test-header: [TOM@sp1.hitchcock.org] mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA32629 for; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:56:54 -0400 Fri, 2 Aug 96 9:31:49 EST5EDT EST5EDT Fri, 2 Aug 96 9:31:21 EST5EDT Subject: Re: What would you do ????Priority: normal Hello all, Can you use Bruce's 60 degree threading tool to scrape a groove in CRS? thanksTom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson from rmoon@dns.ida.net Fri Aug 2 09:58:39 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA26810 for ;Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:58:32 - 0500test-header: [rmoon@dns.ida.net] Subject: color preserver Thomas W. Ausfeld wrote: Hello all, Can you use Bruce's 60 degree threading tool to scrape a groove inCRS? thanksI remember when Wayne wrote of showing his bodied scraper toanother old timer who used a blade scraper. He said something to the effect that you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Anyway I have used almost every color preserver I can think of and I have never been particularly pleased with them. I find that a little brushing lacquer thinned with 4 or 5 parts of lacquer thinner works very good. I use three or four coats and saturate the threads on the first coat. My whites and yellows stay white and yellow and my colors are brilliant. It reduces the amount of finish needed to finish the wraps. Incidentally U-40 has been around ten or twelve years, and is probably one of the better commercial products. Lacquer is cheap, too. from JohnNatk@aol.com Fri Aug 2 12:10:10 1996 ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:10:07 -0500 test-header: [JohnNatk@aol.com] rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:11:22 -0400 Subject: Silk Lines A few questions about silk lines. If I find one at an antique dealer, fleamarket, etc. is there any quick way of determining what weight it iswithoutactually putting it on a scale. Can one get an approximate weight by mic-ingthe diameter? Also what would be a fair price for a silk line in faircondition? $20.00? And did they ever make fly lines out of braideddacronor anything other than silk before the modern PVC coated version. Thanks.John from cbogart@ibm.net Fri Aug 2 19:02:05 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA22578 for; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:02:02 -0500test-header: [cbogart@ibm.net] head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id UAA00815; Fri, 2 Aug1996 20:01:18 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: RE: More Oven Stuff Darryl It may be the same - different color - same price range.It is worth the money in the long run. If Sears carries a clonethen it is an easier source - I had gotten mine at Lowes but they have stopped carrying it. I did scoff up on a number ofusefull attachments. Chris from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Aug 2 20:13:32 1996 ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 20:13:28 -0500 test-header: [Fallcreek9@aol.com] rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:11:46 -0400 Subject: Re: What would you do ???? In a message dated 96-08-02 09:58:53 EDT, you write: Hello all, Can you use Bruce's 60 degree threading tool to scrape a groove in CRS? thanksTom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org) Hi Tom:Not sure how Bruce's 60d threading tool is set up. You can, however, use a60dthreading tool in a fixture (early Planing Form) to clean up andredimensiongroovesthat were out of tolerence due to forms having to be filed flat. I think youcould useit to cut initial grooves, also. Regards,RTyree from flyh2o@mtsi.com Fri Aug 2 20:34:56 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA25047 for; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 20:34:54 -0500test-header: [flyh2o@mtsi.com] Subject: Re: Silk Lines At 01:11 PM 8/2/96 -0400, you wrote:A few questions about silk lines. If I find one at an antique dealer, fleamarket, etc. is there any quick way of determining what weight it iswithoutactually putting it on a scale. Can one get an approximate weight by mic-ingthe diameter? Also what would be a fair price for a silk line in faircondition? $20.00? And did they ever make fly lines out of braideddacronor anything other than silk before the modern PVC coated version. Thanks.John I think $20 is probably fair. Some lines (Golden Ashaway? were silk andnylon) and there were different methods of finishing the silk. A new silkline runs about $175. Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state.:Tom McGuane from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Aug 2 21:08:20 1996 ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:08:19 -0500 test-header: [WayneCatt@aol.com] rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 22:09:27 -0400 Subject: Tenitive Plan ??? I was just talking to Ray Blades from Toronto - one of the topics wasGrayrock '97' - there were a couple add 'events' that perhaps not all wereaware of this last time that hopefully everyone will know about by nextyear.Because several of the group come a day or so early for some fishing orjusthanging out - put it on your calendar - Thursday afternoon / eveningEVERYONEis invited to attend a 'fishnic' at Whispering Pines (The Lovebug's place).The meal will be steak /potato salad/ ect...last year Mike "List Guy' Biondofurnished a mini .Also there will be a river float from Frank's tosomewheremaking stops as needed to accommodate those attending. Secondly - Friday evening EVERYONE is invited to a pizza fest at theclubhouse - a time to kick back or whatever - this last year Larry Blantieda few of his deer hair mice - and there was a sampling of some homebrewsupplied by Kim Fairchild and there were other beverages as well (nothingloud).The idea of the extra events is to extend the Grayrock experience. Butthe lists input of ideas is of prime importance - What do you want to see -and do???? Not knowing what last years budget was no one knows whatregistration is needed to cover actual costs - but it wouldn't suprise manyof us if the above events could be included and not affect the $20 fee any.But if that is the case - would we then charge less for those that can'tmakethese events??? Several of us also think that there can be other amenitiesadded to the main gathering (friday - saturday) without altering theregistration fee as well ???????If you are aware of anyone that is interest in attending Grayrock '97'that is not a member of the list PLEASE let them know of these extraevents -there may or may not be a way of informing those nonlistees Wayne from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Sat Aug 3 00:42:15 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA02430 for; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 00:42:11 -0500test-header: [tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au] NAA10154; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 13:41:13 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Tony Young's Supply Problem Hi Karl, Bruce and Tom. Thanks for your advise, particularily the part about just doing it. As it happens I just steped inside from making my initial planing forms from a local hardwood called Jarrah which is the primary hardwood here in Western Australia. If I was in the Eastern states I'd be using Alpine Ash, both are very good quality hardwoods, very simmilar in character to maple. Anyhow, it seems I'm on the right track, so thanks again for keeping me in the straight and narrow. Tony Tony......................When I started trying to get my tools gathered, itwas the early 1970's in a small town in middle Tennessee. Nobody had aclueas to what I was trying to do. So, I just built things as they were needed. The planing form was made by fitting aluminum angles to pine 1"x2"strips5- feet long. This just happened to be what the hardware store hadavailable.The groove was made with a file and checked with a standard 60- degmachinistgauge. This is a fixed form...ie, no adjustments. You have to slip the from plipton@sunvalley.net Sat Aug 3 04:27:03 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA06274 for; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 04:27:02 -0500test-header: [plipton@sunvalley.net] (post.office MTA v1.9.3b ID# 0-11203) with SMTP id AAA124 Subject: Re: winston rods At 08:07 AM 7/30/96 -0700, you wrote:Part of the show was a visit to the Winston Rod company for a demonstrationhow their master rod maker makes bamboo fly rods. He used and interesting device to split all of the strips and one time, it was a piece of what looked like 1 1/2" pipe with what looked like 12+ fins welded to it. The pipe protruded about 6" past the fins to break out the diaphrams ahead of the fins. He drove it into the but end of the culm and kept driving it through resulting in what looked like over 12 strips split out at one time... Dear Patrick: This sounds like a tool they may have made themselves. However, bamboospliters are a common Japanese hand tool. They come in different sizesand Ipurchased mine from a company in California. If you are interested, I canlook up the name and address. Phil from wellive@ibm.net Sat Aug 3 10:21:37 1996 KAA12165 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 10:21:36 -0500 test-header: [wellive@ibm.net] 15:20:53 GMT gw01.ny.us.ibm.net via smap (V1.3mjr) VERSION 1.3.14/2.12um) id AA0018; Sat, 03 Aug 96 09:20:56 -0700 Subject: Re: Impact Factor? To Wayne or othersThe impact factor of 4, is this a standard accepted number or can it bechanged? It appears that if you lower the number you would compromisethestrength of the rod (it would fail at maximum dynamic load). If the numberwas raised, you would have an over built rod that would stiff and heavy.Have you ever changed this number to see what would happen? I havealwaysdisliked "the magic number". Tell me what you think Bob Berry Not having read the original Garrison derivation, but being a structuralengineer by profession, I would have to say this looks like the safetyfactor commonly used in allowable stress design of members.//-------- --------------------------------------------------------// Barry H. Welliver(wellive@ibm.net)Draper, UtahWherever you go..... There you will be. from wellive@ibm.net Sat Aug 3 10:34:59 1996 KAA12377 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 10:34:58 -0500 test-header: [wellive@ibm.net] 15:34:16 GMT gw01.ny.us.ibm.net via smap (V1.3mjr) VERSION 1.3.14/2.12um) id AA0019; Sat, 03 Aug 96 09:34:04 -0700 Subject: Re: Impact Factor? Snipped from Wayne Catt's responseThe way the math is used by the different code agencies isstandardized- but because of the different species of lumber and the different gradesoflumber available each code agency has through testing developeddifferent f(extreme fiber in bending) charts. The 'numbers' are set throughdistructivetesting of impact loads (the kids jumping on the floor) and have a certainamount of safety factor built in. My favorite term is a 'fudge' factor.Normal design practice is to use the charts as a standard. A closer example would be when the design is done to the 'plasticlimit'that is design a situation to it's point of fatique(breaking point) thenapply a safety factor to this. Sorry I didn't read all my mail before responding earlier, but this is astheysay hitting the nail on the head. Good job Wayne ! Only exception would be the upper limit of material stress is referred toasan "elastic" limit. Maybe too much subconscious thinking about that "other"material they make rods of....//---------------------------------------------- ------------------// Barry H. Welliver(wellive@ibm.net)Draper, UtahWherever you go..... There you will be. from cbogart@ibm.net Sat Aug 3 13:14:03 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15347 for; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 13:14:02 -0500test-header: [cbogart@ibm.net] 1996 14:13:18 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: What would you do ???? Tony There is a rodmaker who has a web site in Australiathat if you do a search on may be able to help you. I looked you may think. Chris from cbogart@ibm.net Sat Aug 3 13:21:57 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15480 for; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 13:21:56 -0500test-header: [cbogart@ibm.net] 1996 14:21:13 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Tenitive Plan ??? Wayne Good idea to "insitutionalize" those informal events from years past that have proven to be so successful at Grayrock.This way all can anticipate and enjoy them. Good Luck on the plans.What do the brewmeisters have planed for us ??? Chris from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Aug 3 13:23:40 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15505 for; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 13:23:36 -0500test-header: [dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca] 0600 Subject: Re: What would you do ???? Wayne, I've lived outside the US all my life and I build bamboo rods and have for15 years.There appears to be builders in most northern European counties, Canadaandthe US.Why don't your give us the country the guy/gal is from and see what thelistcould do for suppliers. Regards, Don A At 20:50 01/08/96 -0400, you wrote:I hope that I'm not putting anyone on the spot here - But imagine youlived outside of the US (some of you do) and you wanted to start makingbamboo fly rods. What would you do as far as final planing forms - binder-and the other needed tools and materials that are readily available hereinthe States? What advice would you give to someone in this position? Wayne from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Aug 3 20:12:02 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA22257 for; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 20:12:00 -0500test-header: [dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca] 0600 Subject: Bob Cochrane Sorry for the BW folks - - Bob would you please contact me off list with your E-mail address. Thanks, Don Andersen from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Sun Aug 4 15:33:09 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA02415 for; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 15:33:04 -0500 Subject: Orgin of Allowable Stress (f) Refer to Garrison / Carmichael book page 256. At this time I havecalculated the total moments for my rod. The problem I'm having isunderstanding wherethe allowable stress (f) come from or how they are derived. Whichfollows thediagram no. 17 (page 257) and the data half way down page 258. In shorthowdo you calculate to find the Allowable Stress (f). Please make it assimpleas possible I would have got kicked out of Engineering School if theywouldhave allowed to get in. have allowed me to get in. Bob Berry from gpayne@ycusd.k12.ca.us Sun Aug 4 18:09:56 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA05730 for; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 18:09:55 -0500 (Smail3.1.29.1 #12) id m0unC2t-000FzuC; Sun, 4 Aug 96 15:53 PDT Subject: Scraper Plane Hi all.I've been "lurking" around learning about bamboo rod building and gathering tools and information, but I haven't had much to contribute since I don't know too much about bamboo rod building. But I'm learning. There were some discussions a while ago about scraper planes. Has anyone on the list seen the scraper plane insert that converts your standard bench plane into a scraper plane? It is made by Veritas and sold by Woodcraft. Its listed in their "what's new" page at http://www2.woodcraft.com/Woodcraft/pages/123540.htm. The price is $25.95 and blades cost less that $5. It looks like a good deal, but since I haven't built a bamboo rod yet (I'm still collecting tools and materials), I don't know if it would work well with scraping the bamboo. Anybody know anything about it? Thanks,Greg Payne from plipton@sunvalley.net Sun Aug 4 20:01:53 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA09112 for; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 20:01:50 -0500 (post.office MTA v1.9.3b ID# 0-11203) with SMTP id AAA109 Subject: Re: Scraper Plane At 04:08 PM 8/4/96 -0700, you wrote:There were some discussions a while ago about scraper planes. Has anyone on the list seen the scraper plane insert that converts your standard bench plane into a scraper plane? It is made by Veritas and sold by Woodcraft. Its listed in their "what's new" page at http://www2.woodcraft.com/Woodcraft/pages/123540.htm. The price is $25.95 and blades cost less that $5. It looks like a good deal, but since I haven't built a bamboo rod yet (I'm still collecting tools and materials), I don't know if it would work well with scraping the bamboo. Anybody know anything about it? Thanks,Greg Payne Greg: I looked at this scraper insert from Veritas but did not like it. It doesnot fit a Stanley 9 1/2 plane. We are talking about a big frame that Ithought would be hard to control one handed. (My other hand is busy holdingmy bamboo in the planing form.) I would have to buy the plane for around$50.00 and the insert is $26.00 so it is getting close to the price of LieNielson's scraper which is a first rate tool. Best,Philip Lipton from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Aug 4 21:46:59 1996 ; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 21:46:57 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 22:48:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Scraper Plane In a message dated 96-08-04 19:10:58 EDT, you write: . The price is $25.95 and blades cost less that $5. It looks like a good deal, but since I haven't built a bamboo rod yet (I'm still collecting tools and materials), I don't know if it would work well with scraping the bamboo. Anybody know anything about it? Thanks,Greg Payne Hi Greg:An experience of mine may shed some light. I purchased a good used # 4smooth plane, silcked it up and added a hock blade. The idea was to deal with themorestrenuous preliminary planing by using the easier to hold plane in anattemptto lower stress on my hand and elbow. Didn't work for me. The larger tool was just too clumsy and did not provide enough control. I think therewouldbe agreater problem with the final planing where the use of a scraper isindicated, and good feel is required. Others, of course, may provide more positiveresponse. Hopethis helps. Best Regards,Richard Tyree from richjez@wwa.com Mon Aug 5 01:04:49 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA18083 for; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 01:04:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Scraper Plane Does anyone know the difference between a Stanley 9 1/2 and 9 1/4. I sawand bought a 9 1/4 at a flea market for $7 today. The blade needs work but all else isOK.Thanks Rich Jezioro *_________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ / /|| __________________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > > from gpayne@ycusd.k12.ca.us Mon Aug 5 10:44:07 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA03778 for; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:44:03 -0500 (Smail3.1.29.1 #12) id m0unRYr-000FzuC; Mon, 5 Aug 96 08:27 PDT Subject: Re: 9 1/4 Plane Rich Jezioro wrote: Does anyone know the difference between a Stanley 9 1/2 and 9 1/4. Isaw andbought a9 1/4 at a flea market for $7 today. The blade needs work but all else isOK. The 9 1/4 Stanley plane has no throat adjustment and the blade is 1/8 in narrower than the Stanley 9 1/2. Otherwise its pretty much the same plane from what I can tell. Maybe someone else has more information. It might be a problem getting a Hock blade to fit. Does Hock make a 1 5/8 inch wide blade? Hope this helps,Greg Payne from gord@teleport.com Mon Aug 5 11:07:33 1996 LAA04641 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:07:30 -0500 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA10258 for ; Subject: Re: Scraper Plane At 01:04 AM 8/5/96 CDT, you wrote:Does anyone know the difference between a Stanley 9 1/2 and 9 1/4. Isaw and bought a 9 1/4 at a flea market for $7 today. The blade needs work but all else isOK. from a page titled "Stanley Blood & Gore" - http://www.access.digex.net/%7Emds/stanley.html------------------------------ ---------------------#9-1/4 Block plane, 6"L, 1 5/8"W, 1 1/4lbs, 1947-1973. This is a general purpose block plane (one of many). It has its iron beddedat 20 degrees. The iron is adjustable both for depth and lateral positions.The mouth is non-adjustable. I don't recall that this plane or the next twohave their numbers cast into them (there's so damn many block planes thatit's hard to remember). #9-1/2 Block plane, 6"L, 1 3/4"W (1 5/8"W 1909 on), 1 1/2lbs, 1873-1973. This is a general purpose block plane, and is Stanley's most popular oneoffered. It underwent several modifications of its long life. The modelmostoften encountered is the one offered from ~1900 on. It is distinguishablebythe oval depressions milled on its sides. These are known as the "Hand-y"grip. The plane has the two adjustment mechanisms for depth and lateralsetof the iron; the depth is controlled by a knurled brass knob that is mountedon a vertical screw. This raises, or lowers, a lever that engages milledgrooves on the back of the iron. Make sure the knibs on the lever aren'tbroken, for these are what engage the iron to control it. The lateraladjustment lever pivots on a screw, and has a disk that fits into a slot cutinto the iron. The mouth is adjustable by means of an eccentric lever thatis secured by the front knob, which screws into the sliding section of thesole. Check that the housing (on the sliding section) that receives thescrew isn't broken. Curiously, many of them are. The iron is bedded at 20degrees, and is secured by a cap that has a pivoting lever that acts as awedge. Make sure that this isn't broken. --------------------------------- ------------------ Cheers,Gordon from BewleyJ@ftdetrck-ccmail.army.mil Mon Aug 5 12:05:44 1996 SMTP id MAA07903 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 199612:05:38 -0500 SMTP id NAA05488 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 199613:22:04 -0400 Subject: Re[2]: What would you do ???? I built my first rod in Germany. If the individual is in the Military, each base has a great "craft shop" set up for the troops to use in free time. Most are under used and staffed by civilians who will be more then willing to help you work out any strange project. If the person is not in the military, conning your way into one of the shops is really not very hard if you apply yourself. Also, Hardy is in England and the necessary items must be available somewhere in theUK. Jim B. ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: What would you do ????Author: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet-Mail On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Bruce Conner wrote: I hope that I'm not putting anyone on the spot here - But imagine you lived outside of the US (some of you do) and you wanted to start makingbamboo fly rods. What would you do as far as final planing forms -binder - and the other needed tools and materials that are readily available herein the States? What advice would you give to someone in this position? Wayne Hardwood forms, Record Plane (England) or make a wooden one? (yow!),Milward binder with a leather belt if you can't mail order it, You'd have to order the Hock blade... Use glass as a scraper, hide glue if you can't get something better. How far out in the boonies are we talking about?The USPS has a pretty good rate for overseas shipping for the smallstuff. Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net This is my first foray into this group, and I thank Wayne for prompting the question. The boonies I'm concerned with is Australia :-).Things like planes, glues, etc are no problem, but planing forms are a real hasle due to very expensive frieght and duties.My plan was to make hardwood forms with brass on the planing surfaces, but I'm not certain as to how that would realy work because of the lack of lateral resistance though the brass would help. Anybody have anycomments? Nice to be here. Regards Tony. from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 5 16:21:31 1996 dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA11122 for; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:20:44 -0700 Organization: Bohls Financial Services Subject: Bailey Woods -- CSC -- Can someone give me the info to contact Bailey Woods. Iv'e been tryingto get info from him for several months now -- even talked to himpersonally. No responce from him on what I was inquiring about. I wantto try one more time. Thnks for your help Fred ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011-9698Office: (717) 732-2448Fax: (717) 732-2414e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com from jfoster@gte.net Mon Aug 5 19:12:46 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA02474 for; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 19:12:44 -0500 SMTP(1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA173610277; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 19:11:17 - 0500 Subject: Re: Comments??? Wayne I havn't checked with you directly,, I assume you have no problem withthe posting of all your (book) tapers. With appropriate credit, ofcourse.jwf from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Aug 5 20:33:01 1996 ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 20:32:59 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:32:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Bailey Woods -- CSC In a message dated 96-08-05 17:44:43 EDT, you write: Can someone give me the info to contact Bailey Woods. Classic Sporting Enterprises, Inc.Roaring Brook RoadRD # 3, Box 3Barton, Vermont 05822 (802) 525-3623-3982 (fax) Good Luck,RT from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Aug 6 00:01:09 1996 ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:01:08 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 01:03:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Bailey Woods -- CSC Fred -Classic Sporting Enterprises, IncRoaring Brook RoadRD #3, Box 3Barton, Vermont 05822802 - 525 - 3623Fax 802 - 525 - 3982 This should do it from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Aug 6 00:01:45 1996 ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:01:43 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 01:03:03 -0400 Subject: 'Plastic Design' Several years ago I found some information which reads as follows:"Plastic design procedures are based on the idea of computing anultimate load and on utilizing a portion of the reserve strength (afterinitial yield stress has been reached) as part of the factor of safety" -Harry Parker, M.S. Emeritus Professor of Architectural Construction -University of Pennsylvania There are even 'plastic moments' and 'plastic hinges' - reading further- plastic design is used in steel construction and is employed because ofstructual steel's ability to resist large deformations without failure.WhichI saw as something close in description to what was being done by Mr.Garrison with his rod design technique. Maybe this is why bamboo isreferedto as the steel of the far east???The information is from the early 70's and having not waded through itall there maybe something in the description about only doing the math onanevening with a full moon and only while gyrating a dead chicken aboutone'shead at the same time. You have to remember I know how to light furnacepilots and not designing structures. Wayne Elastic limit - isn't that how far that black garter belt will stretch - Youknow just before the Yield Point. from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Aug 6 00:02:04 1996 ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:02:03 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 01:00:55 -0400 Subject: More Impact Impact FactorsTo better illustrate an impact factor let's look back at the example Iused for explaining a moment(force). Remember the one pound force at theendof a 12" long wrench. Well in real life we all realize that not all nutsloosen with just a steadily applied force. So off we go to the tool box forthe BFH which weights 16 ounces and to add to that we don't just lay thehammer on the wrench we take a good swat at it. Well, when the hammer'impacts' the wrench the moments created far exceed that of the originalstatic design. Consider the difference between the two loads applied tothewrench as the safety factor.Now also consider that there are variables involved in the materialthatthe wrench may be made from. It might be made of new steel or it mightbethat 63 Chevy that you hauled to the junk yard several years ago. Each willhave different structural properties. In wood construction the soundnessofthe different types of wood are divided into the varying grades of lumber.Each grade has it's limits as far as defects and those boards withexcessiveflaws fall into a lower grade structurally speaking.Through the grading process there can be less 'fudge' built into thesafety factor because the window of potential defects in narrowed. In a sense there is a grading process for the bamboo that is used formaking fly rods. Remember choosing the 'appropriate' culm. That is whereyouare selecting a culm that has an adequate depth of power fibers to matchorexceed the dimensions of the rod the culm is intended to make. By beingselective the maker is narrowing the margin of possible variation fromrod torod. Realize that a floor in a house can be designed too solid with noadverse effect but a #4 weight fly rod might become a #5 weight if thetolerances of the materials and dimensions aren't kept within certainbounds. from jonrc@atlantic.net Tue Aug 6 05:40:17 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA24536 for; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 05:40:15 -0500 berlin.atlantic.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA18540 for; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 06:42:42 -0400 Subject: Re: What would you do ???? Chris Bogart wrote: Tony There is a rodmaker who has a web site in Australiathat if you do a search on may be able to help you. I looked you may think. Chris The rod builder Chris is talking about may be "Darryl Trezise's RodBuilding Techniques" http://www.iconnect.net.au/~darrylt/darryl.html. Heis not building bamboo as yet but seems to be heading in that direction. -- Casting for the fish that has been seen in one's mind time and timeagain. Casting for that magic moment, when everything comes together,the fly is taken and the familiar pulsating tension is felt running thelength of the cane rod allowing the angler just a glimpse of the mysterybelow the surface of the water Jonathan ClarkeTwin Pines Rod Co.2800 4th St. No #112St. Petersburg, FL 33704 http://rio.atlantic.net/~jonrc from khube@benmeadows.com Tue Aug 6 06:19:55 1996 GAA25660 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 06:19:54 -0500 HAA20714 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 07:19:12 - (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA29456 for; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 07:18:57 - 0400 Subject: "Antique Oil" A short while back, someone described a mixture of "antique oil" andvarnish I dug around in the furniture finishing section of the local hardware storelast night and I could not identify anything as "antique oil". Is this ageneric term or is it a product type? The only thing that looked close wasFormby's Tung Oil Finish, but the formulation was not listed in detail. Any information about brands and/or product trade names would beappreciated. from Olympic Exhausted Atlanta Karl Hube from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Tue Aug 6 06:56:06 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA00253 for; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 06:56:04 -0500 Subject: soft sets One occasionally hears fear of soft sets. What caused them? Can theybe(heat?) straightened without removing/damage to the varnish? And whatspecificprecautions need to be taken to prevent them in building--other thanavoidinghumid weather? still straight but fearful, Mark Freed(freedmar@pilot.msu.edu) from wellive@ibm.net Tue Aug 6 09:05:25 1996 JAA06228 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:05:21 -0500 14:04:37 GMT gw01.ny.us.ibm.net via smap (V1.3mjr) VERSION 1.3.14/2.12um) id AA0018; Tue, 06 Aug 96 08:04:42 -0700 Subject: Re: 'Plastic Design' //--- forwarded letter -------------------------------------------------------MIME- Version: 1.0Date: Tue, 06 Aug 96 01:03:03 -0400From: WayneCatt@aol.com Subject: 'Plastic Design' Several years ago I found some information which reads as follows:"Plastic design procedures are based on the idea of computing anultimate load and on utilizing a portion of the reserve strength (afterinitial yield stress has been reached) as part of the factor of safety" -Harry Parker, M.S. Emeritus Professor of Architectural Construction -University of Pennsylvania There are even 'plastic moments' and 'plastic hinges' - reading further- plastic design is used in steel construction and is employed because ofstructual steel's ability to resist large deformations without failure.WhichI saw as something close in description to what was being done by Mr.Garrison with his rod design technique. Maybe this is why bamboo isreferedto as the steel of the far east???The information is from the early 70's and having not waded throughitall there maybe something in the description about only doing the mathon anevening with a full moon and only while gyrating a dead chicken aboutone'shead at the same time. You have to remember I know how to light furnacepilots and not designing structures. Wayne Harry Parker's words are indeed true, however (there always seems to be ahowever, no?) the advantages are only realized when designing what is called anindeterminate structure or model. The thinking goes that if a small portion of an assembly (structure) canreach its own limit (yield) and begins to deflect, then the load responsiblities will get movedto other parts of the assembly. Indeterminate is just that, a structure which cannot bedirectly "determined" or analysed without accounting for material section, modulus of elasticityand deflection. While all these properties are inherent in the design of bamboo rods, the modelwhich is used is a cantilever beam, which is a determinate structure. Plasticity serves the purpose of equalizing stresses in cases of overload.A statically determinate beam will fail if just one plastic hinge developes. The theory the U.S. goes back to a 1939 Proceedings of ASCE paper and is in usespecifically in the design of steel members. The paper was given under shelter of a full moon byProf.J.A. Van de Broek who is believed to have been raised on a chicken farm. Amazing! huh! Now I'm not saying that a bamboo built rod isn't complex. I'm just trying tokeep my thinking simple on this subject. (BTW, I've waded through the "Physics of FlyCasting" and guess having been an Engineer for so long I'm expected to lose my grasp on complexmathmatics) The assembly of the individual strips implies a complex interaction of the parts in thewhole. Perhaps there is room for "plastic" thinking in that if one strips' fibers are of a slightlydifferent "yield" strength, the adjoining or abutting strips will "pick up the slack" so tospeak. I'm just having difficulty imagining the ultimate usefulness of using the plastic theoryhere since unlike steel, bamboos ultimate strength is not as precisely known. Anyways, enough rambling here... Let me know what you think. Elastic limit - isn't that how far that black garter belt will stretch -Youknow just before the Yield Point. What can I say Wayne..... your grasp on technical theory is like a breath offresh air in an often stale disipline. Where were you when I went to college ?! //----------------------------------------------------------------// Barry H. Welliver(wellive@ibm.net)Draper, UtahWherever you go..... There you will be. from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Tue Aug 6 10:00:10 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA08552 for; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 10:00:09 -0500 Subject: List Stuff Hello Everyone, Just wondering if anyone out there might know of a fellow bythe name of Jim Desjardins? He sent in a request to be addedto the list, but his email address got jumbled so I can't addhim. If anyone knows him please tell him to try again, orcontact me personally. Thanks... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguymichael@wupsych.wustl.edu from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Tue Aug 6 10:34:11 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA10494 for; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 10:34:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Tenitive Plan ??? A while back, Wayne sayeth... The idea of the extra events is to extend the Grayrock experience. Butthe lists input of ideas is of prime importance - What do you want to see-and do???? Not knowing what last years budget was no one knows whatregistration is needed to cover actual costs - but it wouldn't suprisemanyof us if the above events could be included and not affect the $20 fee any. But if that is the case - would we then charge less for those that can'tmakethese events??? Several of us also think that there can be otheramenitiesadded to the main gathering (friday - saturday) without altering theregistration fee as well ??????? In my opinion, I think we should just have one, set registration fee.It becomes extremely difficult, bookkeeping-wise to keep track of adifferent registration fees based on the number of days a person isplanning on being in town. I just think we are going to have ourhands full the way it is, without adding another complication. What are other folk's feelings on this... If you are aware of anyone that is interest in attending Grayrock '97'that is not a member of the list PLEASE let them know of these extraevents -there may or may not be a way of informing those nonlistees Well, to start, Ron did send us a list of names and addresses of everyone that attended this past gathering (Thanks Ron!), so wecould have a mailing. Plus, there is _The Planing Form_ !!! Ron, could you make mention ofGRAYROCK '97 in the next issue??? I'm sure there are _Planing Form_readers out there that would be interested in attending. Ron, pleaselet us know if there is anything in particular you need from us. Then Chris responds with... Good idea to "insitutionalize" those informal events from years past that have proven to be so successful at Grayrock.This way all can anticipate and enjoy them. Good Luck on the plans. Let's each and everyone of us get involved with the 'planning'. Weare really interested in getting your thoughts and ideas on whatwould make a good weekend. We need YOUR help... What do the brewmeisters have planed for us ??? Well, all I know for sure of what is planned is...MORE!!! :-)That 2.5 gallons of Pilsner I brought didn't make it past Thursdayevening!!! Okay all you brewers out there...who can I sign up for theGRAYROCK BREWING COMMITTEE!!!? :-) Mike - Plannin' & Planin' & Brewin' - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Aug 6 10:45:08 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA12086 for; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 10:45:04 -0500 0600 Subject: Re: Scraper Plane Greg, Veritas is a trade name of Lee Valley Tools of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.Theymake tools under the Veritas name. This is the best tool company that youwill ever run into. I had the "hots" to get a wood block plane several yearsago. Wrote them, explained I wanted it for cane planing, gave the threechoices I was interested in and they wrote back and suggested the leastexpensive of the choices I'd made. Says a lot for the business. Further, theprincipal of the company has wrote a book on sharpening that is in myopinion the best on sharpening that I've seen. I've no commercial interestin the company. If you would like an address, E-mail me. They have acatalogue that just great. Regards, Don At 16:08 04/08/96 -0700, you wrote:Hi all.I've been "lurking" around learning about bamboo rod building and gathering tools and information, but I haven't had much to contribute since I don't know too much about bamboo rod building. But I'm learning. There were some discussions a while ago about scraper planes. Has anyone on the list seen the scraper plane insert that converts your standard bench plane into a scraper plane? It is made by Veritas and sold by Woodcraft. Its listed in their "what's new" page at http://www2.woodcraft.com/Woodcraft/pages/123540.htm. The price is $25.95 and blades cost less that $5. It looks like a good deal, but since I haven't built a bamboo rod yet (I'm still collecting tools and materials), I don't know if it would work well with scraping the bamboo. Anybody know anything about it? Thanks,Greg Payne from BewleyJ@ftdetrck-ccmail.army.mil Tue Aug 6 10:49:40 1996 SMTP id KAA12371 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 199610:49:37 -0500 SMTP id MAA09034 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 199612:05:45 -0400 Subject: Re: "Antique Oil" Karl, I do not know about the "oil" of which you speak, however I have used "Formby" products on bamboo rods with very favorable results. I have both varnished and rubbed on finishes. Jim B. ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: "Antique Oil"Author: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet-Mail A short while back, someone described a mixture of "antique oil" andvarnish I dug around in the furniture finishing section of the local hardware store last night and I could not identify anything as "antique oil". Is this a generic term or is it a product type? The only thing that looked close was Formby's Tung Oil Finish, but the formulation was not listed in detail. Any information about brands and/or product trade names would beappreciated. from Olympic Exhausted Atlanta Karl Hube from khube@benmeadows.com Tue Aug 6 12:04:38 1996 MAA17509 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:04:37 -0500 NAA13072 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:03:53 - (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA08064 for; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:03:50 - 0400 Subject: Re: "Antique Oil" Karl, I do not know about the "oil" of which you speak, however I have used "Formby" products on bamboo rods with very favorable results. I have both varnished and rubbed on finishes. Jim B. ========================================================================== Jim...........Do you recall if the rubbed finish was the straight FormbyTung Oil Finish or was it called something different ?? I noticed thatsomeof the Formby finishes are available in either satin or gloss; so, there aresome good choices if the stuff will hold up. Karl Hube from caneman@clnk.com Tue Aug 6 14:23:06 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA25139 for; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:23:01 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA209 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: "Antique Oil" Karl Hube wrote: Karl, I do not know about the "oil" of which you speak, however I haveused"Formby" products on bamboo rods with very favorable results. I haveboth varnished and rubbed on finishes. Jim B. ========================================================================== Jim...........Do you recall if the rubbed finish was the straight FormbyTung Oil Finish or was it called something different ?? I noticed thatsomeof the Formby finishes are available in either satin or gloss; so, therearesome good choices if the stuff will hold up. Karl Hube Jim, Karl:I use hand rubbed pure tung oil (2 coats) as a base coat for myvarnished finishes. I tried several Formy's finishes as base coats butthey apparantly have some kind of additive that reacts with the Pratt& Lambert varnish that I use. Pure tung oil is inexpensive and adds a richness to the bamboo that I have found unparalleled. It requires a little more rubbing and patience than some of the "modified" tung oil finishes, but it is worth the time. I finished two rods with nothing but pure tung oil. 6 coats over 12 days time.... but she was a beauty when she was dry. (hi Wayne C... haven't talked in awhile), for those who dont, I am a cane rod builder in Oklahoma. I am a traditional split and hand plane builder, so I only produce about 20 to 25 rods a year. My tapers are of my own design... kind of a compound but quicker than the traditional parabolic tapers.In any case, glad to be aboard. Hope to learn and share a lot with the rest of you. Regards,Bob Nunley, maker from BewleyJ@ftdetrck-ccmail.army.mil Tue Aug 6 14:29:16 1996 SMTP id OAA25364 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 199614:29:12 -0500 SMTP id PAA09996 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 199615:36:02 -0400 Subject: Re[2]: "Antique Oil" Karl, I used the products just as they come from the can. I decided that I preferred the look of the varnish (personal choice) to the rubbed on (Tung oil was what I used). I have used both high and low gloss in the varnish. It goes on well and has held up. It looks as clear and fresh today as it did in 1977 when I did the first one. I like the products and I had tried many brands before I settled on Formby. Jim B. ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: "Antique Oil"Author: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet-Mail Karl, I do not know about the "oil" of which you speak, however I have used "Formby" products on bamboo rods with very favorable results. I have both varnished and rubbed on finishes. Jim B. ========================================================================== Jim...........Do you recall if the rubbed finish was the straight Formby Tung Oil Finish or was it called something different ?? I noticed thatsome of the Formby finishes are available in either satin or gloss; so, there are some good choices if the stuff will hold up. Karl Hube from JCZIMNY@dol.net Tue Aug 6 14:55:33 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA26857 for ;Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:55:32 -0500 Subject: Re: "Antique Oil" Karl Hube wrote: Karl, I do not know about the "oil" of which you speak, however I haveused"Formby" products on bamboo rods with very favorable results. I haveboth varnished and rubbed on finishes. Jim B. ========================================================================== Jim...........Do you recall if the rubbed finish was the straight FormbyTung Oil Finish or was it called something different ?? I noticed thatsomeof the Formby finishes are available in either satin or gloss; so, therearesome good choices if the stuff will hold up. Karl HubeThis is most probably a thin varnish mixture. Most of the"Danish" and "Antique" oils are merely 5 to 20 percent resins contained in a drying oil and reducer medium. The tack and setup time is determined by theproportion of and the degree of polymerization of the oil medium. Varnishes, by wayof contrast, can contain upward of 35% resins. If you have a materialcontaining over 60% resin, you probably have glue.John from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Aug 6 16:02:06 1996 ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:01:39 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:00:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Scraper Plane In a message dated 96-08-06 12:13:10 EDT, you write: If you would like an address, E-mail me. They have acatalogue that just great. Regards, Don Hi Don: Why not put it on the list? I would like a catalog. Do they have a800 number? Thanks and Regards,RTyree from gpayne@ycusd.k12.ca.us Tue Aug 6 19:45:21 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA12330 for ;Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:45:02 -0500 (Smail3.1.29.1 #12) id m0unw3n-000G03C; Tue, 6 Aug 96 17:01 PDT Subject: Re: Scraper Plane Don Anderson and everyone else who responded to my question: Thanks for all the input. It clarifies some questions and gives me some leads. Why don't you put the address for Lee Valley on the list. I think others would be interested, also. I'll continue my preparations for building a rod. Maybe I'll get it all together yet. Thanks again, Greg Payne from lblan@oeonline.com Tue Aug 6 20:05:22 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA13849 for ;Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:05:19 -0500 (Smail3.1.28.1 #3) id m0unwti-0003SYC; Tue, 6 Aug 96 20:54 EDT Subject: Re: Tentative Plan ??? Larry Blan ----------From: Michael Biondo A while back, Wayne sayeth... And then Mike added... Let's each and everyone of us get involved with the 'planning'. Weare really interested in getting your thoughts and ideas on whatwould make a good weekend. We need YOUR help... I'm always willing to irritate the housekeeping staff by covering the floorwith clippings! I'm sure that we can fill an evening with demo's if wecanvass the list. Well, all I know for sure of what is planned is...MORE!!! :-)That 2.5 gallons of Pilsner I brought didn't make it past Thursdayevening!!! Ya know, I've been meaning to mention that.... =8-) from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Aug 6 23:53:42 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA24890 for; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:53:37 -0500 0600 Subject: Lee Valley Tool Co. Too All, After my glowing hype on Lee Valley Tool several fellows e-mailed mewantingthe address. Rather than type all those email address, I chose to shotgunthe herd of you. While this is not the greatest thing in Canada this month (having thefastest man @ 100 and the fastest 4 by 100 relay in the Olympics was),this is the best by far of any company I've dealt with this month or anymonth. For those in the US, remember all those prices in the cataloque arein those little Canadian dollars. I have no idea what you boys pay forcustoms and excise taxes to bring stuff from Canada to the US (orelsewhere)but it generally runs about 20% over the catalogue price.The book on sharpening was by Leonard Lee the principal of the company.Heis a student of sharpening techniques from around the world. In his book,hehas a number of photographs (taken with an electron microscope) of bladessharpened with various stones.Tis an eye opener. To save the cost of the book, water stones beat allothers by a mile.At any rate, the address is:P.O. Box 6295, Stn. J, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K2A 1T4 The 800 number is 1-800-267-8767 Monday to Friday 9:00AM>5:00PM(Eastern Time)Be forwarned, some companies in the US do not allow their 800 numberstofunction across international borders - no idea whether or not this appliesto Lee Valley. I noticed that the front of the cataloque is a note that it costs $ 5.00.I've never paid any charges for their catalgue as I order regularly fromthem. I recall that one person asked for their catalogue and got a smallsuppliment rather than the big "full" 250 pages of glorious toolscatalogue.Is the 5 bucks worth it - IMHO you bet. I hope you have the same success dealing with this company as I. Regards, Don Andersen from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Wed Aug 7 15:53:46 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA00448 for; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 15:53:43 -0500 (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA099421090; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:51:30 -0700 Organization: r-5113 Subject: bamboo Does anybody have and address for tonkin cane in the western half of the country? The cane i just got from demarest was full of splits and I'm not sure it happen in shipment or thats the way it was when they sent it out. Patrick from kpickrel@agt.net Wed Aug 7 19:02:50 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA09320 for; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 19:02:48 -0500 Subject: Re: bamboo This is Bob Cochrane a new member with my first post (note - I'mhitchhikingon a friends computer) Though I've no experience with their product I've been in touch with atonkin bamboo supplier buying from China, Tuxedo Custom Rod ph.209 -948-6502, Stockton Ca po box 1167 zip 95201. Does anybody have and address for tonkin cane in the western half of the country? The cane i just got from demarest was full of splits and I'm not sure it happen in shipment or thats the way it was when they sent it out. Pat- rick________________________________________________________________________ Kelly N. Pickrell phone: (403) 674-26055334 59 Ave.Barrhead AB T7N 1E1 e-mail: kpickrel@agt.netCANADA kpickrel@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca________________________________________________________________________ from caneman@clnk.com Wed Aug 7 20:03:43 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA11562 for; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 20:03:41 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA174 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: bamboo Kelly, Bob C. was right. Tuxedo is a greate place to buy cane. I have bought from themo on several occasions. They have anything from fresh cane to cane that has been stored since 1986. The prices are reasonable and they have never charged me for cutting into 6' culms. I have noticed that you get a higher percentage of usable cane from them. I am kind of picky about what I use as far as blemishes and fiber density, and I dont sell of near as much of there cane as I did that of my previous supplier. When you call them, talk to Eddie Perez. He handles and ships all of the cane. Bob Nunley This is Bob CochraneTuxedo Custom Rod ph.209 -948-6502, Stockton Ca po box 1167 zip 95201. Does anybody have and address for tonkin cane in the western half ofthe country?___________________________________________________________________ from jsbond@inforamp.net Wed Aug 7 20:32:42 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA12815 for; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 20:32:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Lee Valley Tool Co. Lee Valley is not unlike Garret Wade for you U.S. guys. They offer excellentproducts and service. Good Luck JBAt 22:48 06/08/96 -0600, you wrote:Too All, After my glowing hype on Lee Valley Tool several fellows e-mailed mewantingthe address. Rather than type all those email address, I chose to shotgunthe herd of you. While this is not the greatest thing in Canada this month (having thefastest man @ 100 and the fastest 4 by 100 relay in the Olympics was),this is the best by far of any company I've dealt with this month or anymonth. For those in the US, remember all those prices in the cataloquearein those little Canadian dollars. I have no idea what you boys pay forcustoms and excise taxes to bring stuff from Canada to the US (orelsewhere)but it generally runs about 20% over the catalogue price.The book on sharpening was by Leonard Lee the principal of the company.Heis a student of sharpening techniques from around the world. In his book,hehas a number of photographs (taken with an electron microscope) ofbladessharpened with various stones.Tis an eye opener. To save the cost of the book, water stones beat allothers by a mile.At any rate, the address is:P.O. Box 6295, Stn. J, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K2A 1T4 The 800 number is 1-800-267-8767 Monday to Friday 9:00AM>5:00PM(Eastern Time)Be forwarned, some companies in the US do not allow their 800 numberstofunction across international borders - no idea whether or not thisappliesto Lee Valley. I noticed that the front of the cataloque is a note that it costs $ 5.00.I've never paid any charges for their catalgue as I order regularly fromthem. I recall that one person asked for their catalogue and got a smallsuppliment rather than the big "full" 250 pages of glorious toolscatalogue.Is the 5 bucks worth it - IMHO you bet. I hope you have the same success dealing with this company as I. Regards, Don Andersen James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-4196E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from jsbond@inforamp.net Wed Aug 7 20:32:44 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA12824 for; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 20:32:42 -0500 Subject: Re: bamboo Try Tuxedo Cane in Stockton CA. JB At 13:53 07/08/96 -0700, you wrote:Does anybody have and address for tonkin cane in the western half of the country? The cane i just got from demarest was full of splits and I'm not sure it happen in shipment or thats the way it was when they sent it out. Patrick James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-4196E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from chuckt@jetlink.net Wed Aug 7 22:33:21 1996 ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 22:33:19 -0500 blackbird.jetlink.net (8.7.5/CSE) with SMTP id UAA25082 for Subject: hot air gun I am just getting started in building cane rods. I am trying to get everything together. What I would like to known is what is a good brand of air gun to get. Thanks Chuck from khube@benmeadows.com Thu Aug 8 06:21:18 1996 GAA27787 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 1996 06:21:16 -0500 HAA11749 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 1996 07:20:34 - (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA24608 for; Thu, 8 Aug 1996 07:20:30 - 0400 Subject: Re: hot air gun You wrote: I am just getting started in building cane rods. I am trying to get everything together. What I would like to known is what is a good brand of air gun to get. Thanks Chuck=================================================================== Chuck........I just went through this last week; so, I have some freshinformation... Good hot air gun candidates are: 1. Bosch....2000 watt model with variable speed fan. If you have no dealerin your area, try International Tool at 1-800-338-3384 2. Stientel America Inc.15317 Mtks RdMinnetonka, Mn. 612-931-3029 These folks are said to make an upscale unit with LED readout and variablecontrols. 3. W.W. Grainger....sorry, don't have the phone, etc....but I can locate itaround here later today if you need it. With access to the WEB you can geton their home page with phone, fax, e-mail. 4. Sears has a high-end gun with temperature readout and variablecontrols. Now, guns to avoid are: 1. Milwaukee 2. Black & Decker......at least the paint-stripping model. I have not seen ahigh-end unit in their line. In summary.........Expect to pay $60.00 to $100.00 USD for the good guns asopposed to the $35.00 to $50.00 for the usual home repair models. You arelooking for high air flow rates...say near 20CFM if the specifications areavailable. Temperature display on the gun is a plus. Variable control of thefan/element not only desirable, but should be considered a must.My data is(are ?) not complete, but it looks like a wattage of around 2000is typical to get the temperature you want when matched with the highair-flow rates. Hope this helps or at least doesn't get you in too much trouble !!! Karl Hube from lostrivr@im4u.net Thu Aug 8 07:05:30 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA28756 for; Thu, 8 Aug 1996 07:05:27 -0500 quark.im4u.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA06113 for; Thu, 8 Aug 1996 07:57:39 -0400 Subject: Graylilng Rodmakers' Meeting To MIke Biondo et al,Concerning the Grayling Gathering for 97. Let me know what thePlaningForm can do to help and it's done. The first two years were such a goodtimeI'm really glad some others have picked up the ball and are running with it.Presently too many irons in the fire keep me from acting as Master ofCeromonies, Advance Man, Chair Rental&Delivery, etc. etc. etc.. I'm sureyouget the picture. Anyway, I am glad to help in a limited capacity. Send methe info and I'll give the event prime exposure in the newsletter. Printingand mailing costs compliments of the Planing Form. they are the most experienced guys I know of in terms of setting upRodmakers' Meetings. I think the Corbett Lake Meeting in B.C. is the bestI've attended. Just a thought: Perhaps some of the tackle manufacturers may want tosponsor a part of the meeting. Cane Rod guys are starting to be bigbusiness.??????? Keep Me Posted. Ron Barch from ddm7t@faraday.clas.virginia.edu Thu Aug 8 08:07:34 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA00820 for; Thu, 8 Aug 1996 08:07:32 -0500 8 Aug 96 9:06 EDT (8.7.5/8.6.6) id JAA198772 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 8 Aug1996 09:06:44 -0400 Subject: Importance of Finish I read with great interest the review of the differing waterrepellent properties of various finishes. Veryenlightening..and dissappointing! WOW, I thought I was sealingup my rod sooooo well. Since then I have started using JohnZimny's rod way formula to coat my favorite stick and it seemsto do a great job keeping the rod dry. I fell in the drinklast week and despite my wild gyrations my rod and I had alittle swim.....OK, a bit of an extended swim. Anyway, except come out of the water essentially dry and happy. My question:if I can get a real good coating of wax on my rod throughbuffing and/or considerable elbow grease do I really need toworry about how perfect my finish is? The wax seems to do agreat job protecting the rod and it looks pretty darn goodtoo. I realize I'll have to keep up with it but does this makesense as a long-term protection scheme? Dave Makel from wellive@ibm.net Thu Aug 8 08:17:35 1996 IAA01312 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 1996 08:17:33 -0500 13:16:50 GMT gw01.ny.us.ibm.net via smap (V1.3mjr) VERSION 1.3.14/2.12um) id AA0016; Thu, 08 Aug 96 07:16:49 -0700 Subject: Re: 'Plastic Design' I'm not sure this made it to the list. //--- forwarded letter -------------------------------------------------------MIME- Version: 1.0Date: Tue, 06 Aug 96 07:16:24 +0700From: wellive@ibm.net Subject: Re: 'Plastic Design' //--- forwarded letter -------------------------------------------------------MIME- Version: 1.0Date: Tue, 06 Aug 96 01:03:03 -0400From: WayneCatt@aol.com Subject: 'Plastic Design' Several years ago I found some information which reads as follows:"Plastic design procedures are based on the idea of computing anultimate load and on utilizing a portion of the reserve strength (afterinitial yield stress has been reached) as part of the factor of safety" -Harry Parker, M.S. Emeritus Professor of Architectural Construction -University of Pennsylvania There are even 'plastic moments' and 'plastic hinges' - readingfurther- plastic design is used in steel construction and is employed becauseofstructual steel's ability to resist large deformations without failure.WhichI saw as something close in description to what was being done by Mr.Garrison with his rod design technique. Maybe this is why bamboo isreferedto as the steel of the far east???The information is from the early 70's and having not waded throughitall there maybe something in the description about only doing the mathon anevening with a full moon and only while gyrating a dead chicken aboutone'shead at the same time. You have to remember I know how to lightfurnacepilots and not designing structures. Wayne Harry Parker's words are indeed true, however (there always seems to bea however, no?) the advantages are only realized when designing what is called anindeterminate structure or model. The thinking goes that if a small portion of an assembly (structure) canreach its own limit (yield) and begins to deflect, then the load responsiblities will getmoved to other parts of the assembly. Indeterminate is just that, a structure which cannot bedirectly "determined" or analysed without accounting for material section, modulus of elasticityand deflection. While all these properties are inherent in the design of bamboo rods, the modelwhich is used is a cantilever beam, which is a determinate structure. Plasticity serves the purpose of equalizing stresses in cases ofoverload. A statically determinate beam will fail if just one plastic hinge developes. Thetheory for plastic design in the U.S. goes back to a 1939 Proceedings of ASCE paper and is in usespecifically in the design of steel members. The paper was given under shelter of a full moon byProf.J.A. Van de Broek who is believed to have been raised on a chicken farm. Amazing! huh! Now I'm not saying that a bamboo built rod isn't complex. I'm just tryingto keep my thinking simple on this subject. (BTW, I've waded through the "Physics of FlyCasting" and guess having been an Engineer for so long I'm expected to lose my grasp on complexmathmatics) The assembly of the individual strips implies a complex interaction of the parts in thewhole. Perhaps there is room for "plastic" thinking in that if one strips' fibers are of aslightly different "yield" strength, the adjoining or abutting strips will "pick up the slack" so tospeak. I'm just having difficulty imagining the ultimate usefulness of using the plastic theoryhere since unlike steel, bamboos ultimate strength is not as precisely known. Anyways, enough rambling here... Let me know what you think. Elastic limit - isn't that how far that black garter belt will stretch -Youknow just before the Yield Point. What can I say Wayne..... your grasp on technical theory is like a breath offresh air in an often stale disipline. Where were you when I went to college ?! //----------------------------------------------------------------// Barry H. Welliver(wellive@ibm.net)Draper, UtahWherever you go..... There you will be. //----------------------------------------------------------------// Barry H. Welliver(wellive@ibm.net)Draper, UtahWherever you go..... There you will be. from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Aug 8 13:33:42 1996 ; Thu, 8 Aug 1996 13:33:40 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 8 Aug 1996 14:35:53 -0400 Subject: Budget ' 97' ????? Because I am one of the few that know the costs of the get together - heremight be a budget compared to last year.9697Clubhouse 0.00 0.00 Slide proj & screen 0.00 0.00 Tent rental 0.00150.00 (400 rental) 50.00 Fishnic (Thursday night) 0.00200.00(5x40) Pizza (Friday night) 0.00140.00(3.5x40) Overhead 850.000.00 Income needed 900.00 740.00 If there are 45 that attend $15.00 wouldn't quite make it - perhaps stay at$20.00 and provide donuts and fruit (friday and saturday) during the day Wayne from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Thu Aug 8 14:10:23 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA24773 for; Thu, 8 Aug 1996 14:10:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Budget ' 97' ????? Thanks for pulling together some preliminary numbers Wayne. I took the liberty of reformating the message since my pre-historicmail reader jumbled the columns up pretty badly. Wayne please letme know if there is anything out of order. columns, I'll repost the figures. Sorry for the duplicate... Mike - jumbled - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Subject: Budget ' 97' ????? Because I am one of the few that know the costs of the get together - heremight be a budget compared to last year. 1997 1996Clubhouse 0.00 0.00 Slide proj & screen 0.00 0.00 Tent rental 150.00 (400 rental) 0.00 Fishnic (Thursday night) 200.00(5x40) 0.00 Pizza (Friday night) 140.00(3.50x40) 0.00 Overhead 0.00 850.00 Income needed 900.00 740.00 If there are 45 that attend $15.00 wouldn't quite make it - perhaps stay at$20.00 and provide donuts and fruit (friday and saturday) during the day Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Aug 8 14:35:15 1996 ; Thu, 8 Aug 1996 14:35:13 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 8 Aug 1996 15:36:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Budget ' 97' ????? Mike - The Bottom figures are switched ' 97 ' should be $740.00 not $900.00 Wayne from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Thu Aug 8 14:52:12 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA27685 for; Thu, 8 Aug 1996 14:52:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Budget ' 97' ????? Opps, sorry! I'll repost the correction to the list. Mike- from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu Aug 8 20:14:52 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA17110 for ;Thu, 8 Aug 1996 20:14:50 -0500 Subject: Re: soft sets Mark M Freed wrote:One occasionally hears fear of soft sets. What caused them? Can theybe(heat?) straightened without removing/damage to the varnish? And whatspecificprecautions need to be taken to prevent them in building--other thanavoidinghumid weather? still straight but fearful, Mark Freed(freedmar@pilot.msu.edu)What is a soft set? I have only heard this termin reference to either ice cream or the mishandling of egg whites in culinary practice.John from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu Aug 8 20:24:33 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA17392 for ;Thu, 8 Aug 1996 20:24:32 -0500 Subject: Re: "Antique Oil" Karl Hube wrote: A short while back, someone described a mixture of "antique oil" andvarnish I dug around in the furniture finishing section of the local hardwarestorelast night and I could not identify anything as "antique oil". Is this ageneric term or is it a product type? The only thing that looked closewasFormby's Tung Oil Finish, but the formulation was not listed in detail. Any information about brands and/or product trade names would beappreciated. from Olympic Exhausted Atlanta Karl Hube The Formby's tung finish could be either a blend of tung oils in various stages of polymerization. In which case the more polymerized product wil set or "grab" rather quickly. Otherwise, it could contain some resins. In which case it could accurately described as a thin varnish. If you're England everything is a varnish- even nitrocellulose lacquer. And I can't spell.John from plipton@sunvalley.net Thu Aug 8 22:28:15 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA20575 for; Thu, 8 Aug 1996 22:28:14 -0500 (post.office MTA v1.9.3b ID# 0-11203) with SMTP id AAA224 Subject: Re: hot air gun At 07:16 AM 8/8/96 -0500, you wrote:You wrote: Chuck........I just went through this last week; so, I have some freshinformation... Good hot air gun candidates are: 1. Bosch....2000 watt model with variable speed fan. If you have no dealerin your area, try International Tool at 1-800-338-3384 2. Stientel America Inc.15317 Mtks RdMinnetonka, Mn. 612-931-3029 These folks are said to make an upscale unit with LED readout andvariablecontrols. 3. W.W. Grainger....sorry, don't have the phone, etc....but I can locate itaround here later today if you need it. With access to the WEB you can geton their home page with phone, fax, e-mail. 4. Sears has a high-end gun with temperature readout and variablecontrols. Now, guns to avoid are: 1. Milwaukee 2. Black & Decker......at least the paint-stripping model. I have not seen ahigh-end unit in their line. In summary.........Expect to pay $60.00 to $100.00 USD for the good guns asopposed to the $35.00 to $50.00 for the usual home repair models. You arelooking for high air flow rates...say near 20CFM if the specifications areavailable. Temperature display on the gun is a plus. Variable control ofthefan/element not only desirable, but should be considered a must.My data is(are ?) not complete, but it looks like a wattage of around 2000is typical to get the temperature you want when matched with the highair-flow rates. Hope this helps or at least doesn't get you in too much trouble !!! Karl Hube Karl: the Grainger line of heat guns includes some units that run on 220 volts.Does any one have experience with these units? I wonder if the highervoltage makes them more efficent? Philip Lipton from richjez@wwa.com Thu Aug 8 23:55:35 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA24262 for; Thu, 8 Aug 1996 23:55:33 -0500 Subject: Re: hot air gun The complaints about the Milwaukee gun may be the home ownsr's model.They do have higher end models. The thick to longecitity it to turn off the heaters and let the air cool foo the coils before putting the gun away. A lot of people pur a hot gun in the case and according to my contractoes friendsthat will shortenm the life of the gun. Both of their guns are clost to 10 years old. No they have not been used to dry cane, just bemove floor tiles, and on and on. Anyway, Milwaukee tooks are usually excellent but theit homeowners likeis not maed in this countye and is made for occasional use. Their professionalline is usuallu as good as is out there. Now they may have changed their guns in the last year os so, and if so, I stand corrected.Rich Jezioro *_________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ / /|| __________________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > > from richjez@wwa.com Thu Aug 8 23:58:08 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA24312 for; Thu, 8 Aug 1996 23:58:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Graylilng Rodmakers' Meeting Ron,At least for this years Grayling Thing, your efforts were appreciated froma novice.Thanks,Rich Jezioro *_________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ / /|| __________________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > > from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Aug 9 00:38:02 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA25642 for; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 00:38:00 -0500 0600 Subject: Useful Little Tool To All, There is a tool I use to help me get those pesky strips in the right ordereach time. I know I fought with the things till I figured out this little tool. Materials required: - 3 pieces of 20 guage gla. tin - each piece about 3"*3/4"- solder, flux, propane torch c/w narrow tip- a small 60 degree file To make it you cut a slot in the middle of each piece slightly better thanhalf way through. Mount the pieces so that they are inlocked @ the slotsandthey are 60 degrees apart. Flux the area where they join and solder themtogether. Clean out the center of any wayward solder. To use is simplicity itself - - just pop the strips into the ready made"Vee's" in the proper order and they will stay there while you tie thebunched strips together. Enjoy, Don from TOM@sp1.hitchcock.org Fri Aug 9 07:20:04 1996 HAA03447 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 07:20:02 -0500 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA13249 for; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 08:19:19 -0400 Fri, 9 Aug 96 7:53:49 EST5EDT EST5EDT Fri, 9 Aug 96 7:53:18 EST5EDT Subject: Re: hot air gunPriority: normal Karl wrote:the Grainger line of heat guns includes some units that run on 220 volts.Does any one have experience with these units? I wonder if the highervoltage makes them more efficent? Using twice the voltage requires half the current (ohms law), and Power = Current x Voltage, so power consumption is the same.So for a 2000 watt heater, @ 120 volts, current is 16.7 amps. Same heater @ 220 volt is about 8 Amps. Drawing less current will keep your wires from getting hot. 16 Amps is quite alot, most feeder circuits are protected with 20 Amp breakers. So don't make toast while you're treating your cane.Now whether they are more efficient, I dont know. Efficiency is power out divided by power in. For our example, power in is the same, but whats the output difference, i.e. higher temps. If you're getting higher output temps for the same input power, then I guess I would call that more efficient. Hope this helps. Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Fri Aug 9 08:32:32 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA05877 for; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 08:32:30 -0500 Subject: Budget crew of Greyrock 97 I see this problem quite often of what to charge for get togather. Wellhere is my $00.02 worth standard answer. The cost of the event is in mycaseand I belive others also, not the major expense. It is going to cost memoreto get there, sleep and eat then the cost of Greyrock 97. So if you aretryingto decide wheather to charge $15.00 or $20.00 go with the big numbers. Fivebucks "ain't goina make no difference". If you bump it up 10 buck samestory.Now after I have said that it sounds like I'm a high roller, you know the 5and10 buck stuff. Well that ain't so either. But in a hobby where I haveinvesteda small fortune and have drove countless miles and have only acouple of funnylooking small sticks don't don't sweat the small stuff. Besides if it needbeI can drink "Old Spey River" (which I do any way) rather than Single Malt "Sheep Dip" SincerelyBob Berry from rfairfie@cisco.com Fri Aug 9 10:50:38 1996 ; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 10:50:31 -0500 IAA02236 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 08:49:42 - 0700 Subject: looking for tip blanks, or used tips... Folks, I'm new to this list, and have not had much experience with bamboo.I have refinished one rod, and have another one that, I think, was builtaround 1930. The tip has been broken at least once (it's a few inchesshorterthan the other sections), and I would like to find another one that I canmatch/trim to length. I would guess that the rod is a 5 wt, and about 8 1/2 feet long. Anyone outthere know where I might find an inexpensive old/used/?? tip blank? Thanks,Roger from TOM@sp1.hitchcock.org Fri Aug 9 11:40:35 1996 LAA14266 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 11:40:33 -0500 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA06242 for; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 12:39:51 -0400 Fri, 9 Aug 96 12:14:19 EST5EDT EST5EDT Fri, 9 Aug 96 12:13:53 EST5EDT Subject: Re: looking for tip blanks, or used tips...Priority: normal Roger, and I would like to find another one that I canmatch/trim to length. Get in touch with Dick Spurr at Centennial Sales. I just bought a matched set of tips for $50. They look very nice. Just what you're looking for. http://www.gorp.com/cl_angle/canecoun/ccsales.htm Standard disclaimers apply..... Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson from dennish@umr.edu Fri Aug 9 12:13:05 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA15615 for; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 12:13:00 -0500 Subject: Re: hot air gun HUNH??... At 23:54 1996/08/08 CDT, Rich Jezioro wrote:The complaints about the Milwaukee gun may be the home ownsr's model.They do have higher end models. The thick to longecitity it to turn off the heaters and let the air cool foo the coils before putting the gun away. A lot of people pur a hot gun in the case and according to my contractoes friendsthat will shortenm the life of the gun. Both of their guns are clost to 10 years old. No they have not been used to dry cane, just bemove floor tiles, andon and on. Anyway, Milwaukee tooks are usually excellent but theit homeowners likeis not maed in this countye and is made for occasional use. Their professionalline is usuallu as good as is out there. Now they may have changed their gunsin the last year os so, and if so, I stand corrected.Rich Jezioro *_________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ / /|| __________________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > > from maiello@yorku.ca Fri Aug 9 12:49:25 1996 MAA17078 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 12:49:24 -0500 (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA03903 for; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 13:48:39 - 0400 doing -bs Subject: Re: hot air gun I don't think this is right. If you double voltage,and keep resistance the same, you double the current, which gives a 4 times increase in power. BIG DIFFERENCE! As I recall... Ohm's law is : V = I*R where V is the voltage, I is current, and R is resistance. Also: P = V*I where P is power, and others are the same. rearranging Ohm's law in terms of I we get: I = V/R sub this into P = VI, and you get: P =( V * V )/R or P = (V^2)/R Or, Power equals the square of the voltage divided you get a 4 times increase in power. ie 2 squared. If your heat gun is made for 220 V, and you use it with 110V, you will see a difference in power output roughly 4 times less power. Hope this helpsMauro. On Fri, 9 Aug 1996, Thomas W. Ausfeld wrote: Karl wrote:the Grainger line of heat guns includes some units that run on 220volts.Does any one have experience with these units? I wonder if the highervoltage makes them more efficent? Using twice the voltage requires half the current (ohms law), and Power = Current x Voltage, so power consumption is the same.So for a 2000 watt heater, @ 120 volts, current is 16.7 amps. Same heater @ 220 volt is about 8 Amps. Drawing less current will keep your wires from getting hot. 16 Amps is quite alot, most feeder circuits are protected with 20 Amp breakers. So don't make toast while you're treating your cane.Now whether they are more efficient, I dont know. Efficiency is power out divided by power in. For our example, power in is the same, but whats the output difference, i.e. higher temps. If you're getting higher output temps for the same input power, then I guess I would call that more efficient. Hope this helps. Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson from TOM@sp1.hitchcock.org Fri Aug 9 13:45:18 1996 NAA19919 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 13:45:17 -0500 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA24347 for; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 14:44:26 -0400 Fri, 9 Aug 96 14:18:54 EST5EDT EST5EDT Fri, 9 Aug 96 14:18:34 EST5EDT Subject: Re: hot air gunPriority: normal Mauro, you said, I don't think this is right. If you double voltage,and keep resistance the same, you double the current, which gives a 4 times increase in power. BIG DIFFERENCE! But in our example resistance is NOT constant, power was. be different between voltage models. I think I found the source of confusion, I said:Using twice the voltage requires half the current (ohms law), and Power = Current x Voltage, so power consumption is the same.So for a 2000 watt heater, @ 120 volts, current is 16.7 amps.Good so far....then I said: Same heater @ 220 volt is about 8 Amps. Poorly worded.... Should've said "Same 'RATED 2000 watt/@ 220 V' heater",NOTthe same heating element, same power ratings. or P = (V^2)/R Or, Power equals the square of the voltage divided you get a 4 times increase in power. ie 2 squared.True for FIXED resistance. If your heat gun is made for 220 V, and you use it with 110V, you will see a difference in power output roughly 4 times less power. True, but this is a very unsafe practice, I believe the question was the difference between heat guns made for 220 volt vs. heat guns made for 120 volts, not using 220 volts on a 120 volt heat gun. Generally, appliances are rated at either power comsumption or current draw at a specific voltage(i.e. 220 V or 120V). That's the advantage of using 220 volts for your electric stove and dryer, you can keep current levels down, otherwise the current drawon these would cause your house wiring to turn into heating elements themselves. So my point was, The difference between a one rated for 2000 W @ 220 v and one rated for 2000w @ 120 v, is the will the later's current will be about double of the first's.Clear as mud???? sorry about the confusion...Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Fri Aug 9 14:52:47 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA22915 for; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 14:52:43 -0500 Subject: Rod Tip blank I've got a rod with three tips that sound close to what you are lookingfor.Will sell for $40.00. The tips are refinished with Ace Spar Varnish, noguides.I don't have the rod in front of me but will send specifications overrodmakers.It close to a 5 wt 8 1/2' long 3 piece. Let me know Bob Berry from cbogart@ibm.net Fri Aug 9 17:52:30 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA02790 for; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 17:52:26 -0500 SAA11883; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 18:51:44 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: hot air gun Rich Yes Milwaukee has changed guns - they are made by Wagner. I raninto the problem if you buy the industrial grade model - you could notrepeat could NOT get an attachment to fit for it. Many calls to 800 number- answered by Wagner, and after they admitting that they don't fitit went back to the store and I got a Stienel and I lived happily everafter. BTW you can only buy three different attachments - if you canget them to fit. With the Stienel you have a choice of hundreds formany other purposes from heat shrink tubing to cutting styrofoam to welding PVC pipe. Check it out Chris from rfairfie@cisco.com Fri Aug 9 18:41:26 1996 ; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 18:41:25 -0500 QAA18104 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 16:40:43 - 0700 Subject: Re: Rod Tip blank Bob, sounds interesting. Are you talking about selling the entire rod orjustthe tips? I can't really tell from your mail. Thanks,Roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Aug 9 12:54:48 1996Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 14:48:21 -0500 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Subject: Rod Tip blank X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.1 -- ListProcessor by CRENContent-Length: 306 I've got a rod with three tips that sound close to what you are lookingfor.Will sell for $40.00. The tips are refinished with Ace Spar Varnish, noguides.I don't have the rod in front of me but will send specifications overrodmakers.It close to a 5 wt 8 1/2' long 3 piece. Let me know Bob Berry from caneman@clnk.com Fri Aug 9 19:17:37 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA05045 for; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 19:17:36 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA180 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: looking for tip blanks, or used tips... Roger Fairfield wrote: Folks, I'm new to this list, and have not had much experience withbamboo.I have refinished one rod, and have another one that, I think, was builtaround 1930. The tip has been broken at least once (it's a few inchesshorterthan the other sections), and I would like to find another one that I canmatch/trim to length. I would guess that the rod is a 5 wt, and about 8 1/2 feet long. Anyoneoutthere know where I might find an inexpensive old/used/?? tip blank? Thanks,Roger Roger,Give me a call at 918-647-3549 (home) or 647-9237 (shop). I am a rodmaker but I also restore cane rods. I have several tips, and if you can give me a couple of dimensions, I can probably come up with what you need. Tight Lines,Bob Nunley from caneman@clnk.com Fri Aug 9 19:33:53 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA05644 for; Fri, 9 Aug 1996 19:33:51 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA174 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: hot air gun Roughly, Mauro is correct, except that since you're dealing with ac voltage you would have to recalculate the voltage in RMS (root mean square) voltage. Roughly that is V*.717 and you would have to take into consideration the difference in the conductance (the inverse of the resistance in the two resistors (in the case of the heat gun, the heatercoils). Probably you would have more output power (heat) for the Kilowatt/hour, but not enough to make any vast difference in overall"efficiency". I have used a 110 volt Master Industrial heat gun for straightening and for my convection heat treating outfit for about 1 1/2years and it does a great job. Bob NunleyBSEE turned rodmaker Mauro Aiello wrote: I don't think this is right. If you double voltage,and keep resistance the same, you double the current,which gives a 4 times increase in power. BIG DIFFERENCE! As I recall... Ohm's law is : V = I*R where V is the voltage, I is current, and R is resistance. Also: P = V*I where P is power, and others are the same. rearranging Ohm's law in terms of I we get: I = V/R sub this into P = VI, and you get: P =( V * V )/R or P = (V^2)/R Or, Power equals the square of the voltage divided you get a 4 times increase in power. ie 2 squared. If your heat gun is made for 220 V, and you use it with 110V,you will see a difference in power output roughly 4 times less power. Hope this helpsMauro. On Fri, 9 Aug 1996, Thomas W. Ausfeld wrote: Karl wrote:the Grainger line of heat guns includes some units that run on 220volts.Does any one have experience with these units? I wonder if the highervoltage makes them more efficent? Using twice the voltage requires half the current (ohms law),and Power = Current x Voltage, so power consumption is the same.So for a 2000 watt heater, @ 120 volts, current is 16.7 amps. Sameheater @ 220 volt is about 8 Amps. Drawing less current will keepyour wires from getting hot. 16 Amps is quite alot, mostfeeder circuits are protected with 20 Amp breakers. So don't maketoast while you're treating your cane.Now whether they are more efficient, I dont know. Efficiency ispower out divided by power in. For our example, power in is thesame, but whats the output difference, i.e. higher temps. If you'regetting higher output temps for the same input power, then I guess Iwould call that more efficient. Hope this helps. Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson from JCZIMNY@dol.net Fri Aug 9 20:19:29 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA06809 for ;Fri, 9 Aug 1996 20:19:25 -0500 Subject: Re: hot air gun Robert Nunley Jr. wrote: Roughly, Mauro is correct, except that since you're dealing with acvoltage you would have to recalculate the voltage in RMS (root meansquare) voltage. Roughly that is V*.717 and you would have to take intoconsideration the difference in the conductance (the inverse of theresistance in the two resistors (in the case of the heat gun, the heatercoils). Probably you would have more output power (heat) for theKilowatt/hour, but not enough to make any vast difference in overall"efficiency". I have used a 110 volt Master Industrial heat gun forstraightening and for my convection heat treating outfit for about 1 1/2years and it does a great job. Bob NunleyBSEE turned rodmaker Mauro Aiello wrote: I don't think this is right. If you double voltage,and keep resistance the same, you double the current,which gives a 4 times increase in power. BIG DIFFERENCE! As I recall... Ohm's law is : V = I*R where V is the voltage, I is current, and R is resistance. Also: P = V*I where P is power, and others are the same. rearranging Ohm's law in terms of I we get: I = V/R sub this into P = VI, and you get: P =( V * V )/R or P = (V^2)/R Or, Power equals the square of the voltage divided you get a 4 times increase in power. ie 2 squared. If your heat gun is made for 220 V, and you use it with 110V,you will see a difference in power output roughly 4 times less power. Hope this helpsMauro. On Fri, 9 Aug 1996, Thomas W. Ausfeld wrote: Karl wrote:the Grainger line of heat guns includes some units that run on 220volts.Does any one have experience with these units? I wonder if the highervoltage makes them more efficent? Using twice the voltage requires half the current (ohms law),and Power = Current x Voltage, so power consumption is the same.So for a 2000 watt heater, @ 120 volts, current is 16.7 amps. Sameheater @ 220 volt is about 8 Amps. Drawing less current will keepyour wires from getting hot. 16 Amps is quite alot, mostfeeder circuits are protected with 20 Amp breakers. So don't maketoast while you're treating your cane.Now whether they are more efficient, I dont know. Efficiency ispower out divided by power in. For our example, power in is thesame, but whats the output difference, i.e. higher temps. If you'regetting higher output temps for the same input power, then I guess Iwould call that more efficient. Hope this helps. Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry LawsonAll I can say is that any phenomenon ( i.e. electricity) that is described mathematically by the square root of minus one cannot possibly exist anyway. I'm going to go have a beer.John from richjez@wwa.com Sat Aug 10 09:50:01 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA22431 for; Sat, 10 Aug 1996 09:49:59 -0500 Subject: Re: hot air gun Oops, I really need to run a spell checker if I am going to write this late. Sorry about tyop'sRich *_________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ / /|| __________________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > > from arqmmao@dow.on.doe.ca Sat Aug 10 10:19:26 1996 KAA23141 for ; Sat, 10 Aug 1996 10:19:25-0500 (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA284200320; Sat, 10 Aug 1996 11:18:40 -0400 Subject: Re: hot air gun HEy guys. I see what you are saying about the different models ie same wattage. I should have had a beer before reading your message! Ah well, I'll have one now. Mauro. from gunnar@ncw.net Sat Aug 10 21:18:49 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA07847 for; Sat, 10 Aug 1996 21:18:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Administrativa dear sir- I am writing on behalf of my father, who is a current subscriber toyour list. Could you please remove him from the subscription list, as hisinterest in this subject has dwindled over the summer? (his address is Erik Dull from bconner@cybercom.net Sat Aug 10 21:35:27 1996 ; Sat, 10 Aug 1996 21:35:24 -0500 WAA03945 for ; Sat, 10 Aug 1996 22:34:32-0400 Subject: Name for the get-together a late entry! How about "A Thin Glue Line"... OK, ok, I couldn't help myself! Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from jfoster@gte.net Sat Aug 10 23:40:18 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA12305 for; Sat, 10 Aug 1996 23:40:17 -0500 (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA127598374; Sat, 10 Aug 1996 23:39:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Help! Help! bruce send them to the archive for directions jwf from jfoster@gte.net Sun Aug 11 10:32:40 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA24704 for; Sun, 11 Aug 1996 10:32:39 -0500 SMTP(1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA112940623; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 22:03:48 - 0500 Subject: Re: Comments??? wayne jwf from bootstrap@earthlink.net Sun Aug 11 11:27:53 1996 JAA24957 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 1996 09:26:32 Subject: I want to (re)subscribe Hi. I went on travel and "postponed" or something like that. Now I'mback. How do I get back on? Frank from jfoster@gte.net Sun Aug 11 11:59:32 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA26546 for; Sun, 11 Aug 1996 11:59:30 -0500 (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA270422709; Sun, 11 Aug 1996 11:58:38 -0500 Subject: Re: I want to (re)subscribe FrankWhen you are ready to start receiving mail again, send anothermessage to the LISTPROC address with the body of the message to read: SET RODMAKERS MAIL ACK jwf from jfoster@gte.net Sun Aug 11 17:40:18 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA03724 for; Sun, 11 Aug 1996 17:40:16 -0500 (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA062583173; Sun, 11 Aug 1996 17:39:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Bailey Woods -- CSC Mike Are you brokenn I'm getting some very old mail dribbling in jwfwhere's the text file? from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Aug 11 18:06:27 1996 ; Sun, 11 Aug 1996 18:06:25 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 11 Aug 1996 19:05:18 -0400 Subject: Help Needed Locating Bamboo Plants???? Got a call this morning from a fellow that is looking to find a source ofbamboo plants to grow - If anyone has information could they please sentitto the following: Bill Kessler2232 IllinoisJoplin, MO 64804 417 - 782 - 6767 Thank You Wayne from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Sun Aug 11 19:58:41 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA08605 for; Sun, 11 Aug 1996 19:58:39 -0500 Subject: Jerry Fosters HEXROD Jerry Foster would you send me your E-Mail address I have a fewquestions about Hexrod / Exel 5. My address isbobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Thanks Bob Berry from jfoster@gte.net Sun Aug 11 21:36:55 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA13330 for; Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:36:52 -0500 SMTP(1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA078937965; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:32:46 - 0500 Subject: Re:Ferrules Mr Tyree was kind enough to give us quite an extensive listing offerrule weights.. and I noted there was a wide variance in the variousweights, over the years that have been used..Is there really a broad range in the SS ferrules? Mike - where are the archives ..pub/rm?jwf from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Sun Aug 11 22:51:58 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA15660 for; Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:51:57 -0500 CDT Subject: Archives Jerry seez... Mike - where are the archives ..pub/rm? All RODMAKERS list messages are automatically archived by the LISTPROCnow, and are available via the LISTPROC address. and you will receive the help file that contains the commands foraccessing and searching the archives, in addition to all the otherLISTPROC commands. Also be reminded that the automatic archiving of message began aboutthe first week of July. All previous messages are currently archivedon the RODMAKERS web page that Jerry Foster set up: http://HOME1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm If anyone has any problems accessing the archives please let me know. Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Aug 12 08:29:06 1996 ; Mon, 12 Aug 1996 08:29:03 -0500 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:30:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Spey Rod In a message dated 96-08-12 07:06:19 EDT, you write: Hello All: The following is a note from Mikael Marklund concerning hisspey rod taper. Mikael had mentioned his spey rod experience and I askedhim selfexplaniatory, and the taper follows. Also, note that it is built as a 1- pcrod,some feat for a rod of thirteen feet. Thank you Mikael from all of us for the taper. As for the other tapers youoffer, please send them as there seems to be quite a bit of interest in the speyrod"over here." It would be quite interesting to compare their plots. Best Regards,RTyree Hello Mikael:I have been trying to contact you to see if I may post the taper for the13'spey rodyou sent to me. There are three or more on the list who would like tohaveit. Of course it may not be appropriate to list it, and I will understand.Pleaseadvise. Hello Richard! The reason that I haven't responded is that I have been travelling in south - east Asia for almost a month - very interesting... Of course You can post the taper. Great that people are interested... Best regards - Mikael.------------------------------------ Hello Richard!I tried to use the Garrison formulas on 13' - 14' rods. It didn't work. They became too soft. I contacted a builder named Kenneth Bostråm. He was quite famous here in Sweden. Made great rods. He sent me some tapers. Especially the 13footer is nice. I have built it without ferrules too - it works even better. I carry it in a plastic tube on top of my car - people at the river knows who's coming when they spot the yellow plastic tube.Here's the taper of the 13footer (I call it Byske1):13' #9-10 Two-handed salmon rodButtdiameters:0mm - 14,80mm55mm - 14,70mm255mm - 14,20mm455mm - 13,70mm655mm - 13,20mm855mm - 12,70mm1055mm- 12,20mm1300mm- 11,50mm Middle: 0mm - 11,25mm60mm - 11,00mm260mm - 10,40mm460mm - 10,00mm660mm - 9,40mm860mm - 9,10mm1060mm- 8,50mm1305mm- 8,25mm Top:0mm - 8,25mm160mm - 8,00mm360mm - 7,30mm560mm - 6,60mm760mm - 5,90mm960mm - 5,10mm1160mm - 4,30mm1360mm - 3,50mm The handle is 650mm (should be adjusted for the size of person that will be using the rod). When you spey-cast the lower of the ferrules gets a lot of stress. I had a lot of problems holding it in place. That's when I decided to make the rod without ferrules. Worked great without changing the taper.Do you want more tapers? I have one on a 14footer. I think I have some Sharpe tapers too here somewhere... Feels good to interest you "over there" for our type of fishing.I have made a small flyfishing site if you have the time. It'shttp://www.skelleftea.se/utb/balder/personal/ba-mma/flyfish.htm /Mikael from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Mon Aug 12 08:33:51 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA05212 for; Mon, 12 Aug 1996 08:33:49 -0500 Subject: Rod Tip Blank to Roger FairfieldThis is the spec. on the rod tip I was telling you about.South Bend 359 8 1/2' 3 pieceMale ferrule 0.157" Total length 34-1/4"Tip - 0.0625" -0.09010 -.11015 -.11520 -.14225 -.15530 -.162Varnish estimate .005" Very dark colored rod tipI would like $30.00 for the tip and I'll pay the shipping if you don't like itsend it back. I not interested in sell any of the part of the rod. I justhappened to get a hold of a rod about 7 years ago that had 4 tip and I onlyuse two.Let me know your mailing address if interested. Bob Berry from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Aug 12 09:32:22 1996 ; Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:32:20 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 12 Aug 1996 10:34:50 -0400 Subject: Re: three piece rods In a message dated 96-07-18 12:18:18 EDT, you write: Dear Richard, If it is neither inconvenient nor a state secret, could you pleasepost/email Mikael Marklund's taper for his 13' spey? A great deal of inkhasbeen spilled on the issue of what constitutes a 'true' spey rod; I am surethat the answer lies in the stress curve, i.e., are spey rods parabolic,progressive, or something in between? I hope to convince DarrylHayashidaorone of the other computer experts to help me with this burning, crucial,world-shaking question... Thanks for any help. Hi Roger:Thanks for your patience. I finally received permission by the originalsenderto post the spey rod taper. If you do not see it, please let me know. Once was a helicopter flight instructor and remember a student namedWiggins - USAF type. Know him? Best Regards,Richard Tyree from mrj@seanet.com Mon Aug 12 17:32:12 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA17670 for; Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:32:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Administrativa In message writes:dear sir- I am writing on behalf of my father, who is a current subscriber toyour list. Could you please remove him from the subscription list, as hisinterest in this subject has dwindled over the summer? (his address is Erik Dull Martin Jensen Martin Jensen from cbogart@ibm.net Mon Aug 12 18:18:57 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA21353 for; Mon, 12 Aug 1996 18:18:55 -0500 Aug 1996 19:18:05 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Help Needed Locating Bamboo Plants???? Wayne I just did a search query on Bamboo and grow and came back witha pile of sources and info - too much to send. I suggest that you do asearch of the Internet - I like Alta Vista but Yahoo or Lycos will dofine - I can point you in the right direction if you don't knowwhere to find them. There is tons of stuff out there includingbamboo lovers, research, growers, gardens, and et al. Soo... it islike saying find me a source of beer (or place favorite beverage here). Chris from KilchsGray@aol.com Mon Aug 12 19:08:33 1996 ; Mon, 12 Aug 1996 19:08:32 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 12 Aug 1996 20:10:10 -0400 Subject: Thanks(was 3-Piece) Dear Rodmakers,First, many thanks to Mikael Marklund and Richard Tyree for posting the13' spey taper here. I deeply appreciate this information. Mikael, if it isnot incovenient, I would very much like to see any speyrod tapers youhave,either here or by email. Richard: don't know of any USAF helicopter pilots. My version of thesurname is the one which lacks the final S.Again, gentlemen, my great appreciation for your time and generosity. Ihope to generate stress curves and answer the cosmic question, "What is aTrue Spey Rod?" (aw, c'mon, it beats wondering about the sound of onehandclapping, or angels on pinheads, or...) Sincerely,Roger Wiggin, Portland from DRBRAD4D@aol.com Mon Aug 12 22:27:52 1996 ; Mon, 12 Aug 1996 22:27:51 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 12 Aug 1996 23:29:17 -0400 Subject: Re: 2 wt. Currently, I'm working on my third rod, 8'0" 5 wt., one of Wayne's tapers. Iwould like to try a 2wt 6'6" to 7'6" taper, a medium to faster action. Doesanyone have a 2 wt taper? Thanks in advance. Bradford Edgren from jfoster@gte.net Tue Aug 13 19:51:24 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA13997 for; Tue, 13 Aug 1996 19:51:22 -0500 (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA202552588; Tue, 13 Aug 1996 19:29:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Jerry Fosters HEXROD Bob Did you get my email address..you can extract it from this message ..if not Jerry Foster from caneman@clnk.com Tue Aug 13 20:04:57 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA14344 for; Tue, 13 Aug 1996 20:04:55 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA187 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: 2 wt. DRBRAD4D@aol.com wrote: Currently, I'm working on my third rod, 8'0" 5 wt., one of Wayne's tapers. Iwould like to try a 2wt 6'6" to 7'6" taper, a medium to faster action. Doesanyone have a 2 wt taper? Thanks in advance. Bradford Edgren Brad, and anyone else who's interested. Here is my taper for my 6' 2/2 2 wt. Station Tip Butt00 .062 .15305 .068 .16610 .079 .17815 .095 .18920 .112 .19425 .128 .19430 .140 .19435 .151 .19436 .153 .194 This is a dandy little brookie or Sunfish rod. Try it, You'll like it. Bob Nunley from george.barnes@acornbbs.com Wed Aug 14 17:21:08 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA20882 for; Wed, 14 Aug 1996 17:21:03 -0500 SAA01411 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 14 Aug 1996 18:23:33 - 0400 Organization: Acorn BBS Subject: Calcutta Cane Chris: In your bamboo searches have you found anything on the properties of Calcutta cane, which some say may be superior to Tonkin cane if properly cured? I've been trying to locate information for Willis Reid but a number of search engines, including Alta vista, have been unsuccessful as has e-mail to two addresses. George Barnes CMPQwk 1.42 404 Insomnia isn't anything to lose sleep over. from jfoster@gte.net Wed Aug 14 21:07:35 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA25561 for; Wed, 14 Aug 1996 21:07:33 -0500 (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA036094789; Wed, 14 Aug 1996 21:06:30 -0500 Subject: Re: 2 wt. Bob Nunley I've posted your taper on the archive..but is it a 6'2"? jwf from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Aug 15 09:32:18 1996 ; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 09:32:16 -0500 rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 10:34:08 -0400 Subject: Diamond sharpening boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.25997.emout14.mail.aol.com.840119647" --PART.BOUNDARY.0.25997.emout14.mail.aol.com.840119647 Here is an inexpensive way to sharpen plane blades that is quick and easytouse. I am indebted to George Barnes, who inspired me to try this.Basically,the setup is a leather covered wheel, onto which a diamond lappingcompoundhas been rubbed. Take a piece of 2 X 6 lumber and bandsaw a 5 3/4 inchcircle. You now have a 5 3/4 x 1 1/2 disc. Drill a suitable hole in thecenter and true up the OD on a lathe. If you don't have a lathe you couldalso true up by mounting the disc on pillow blocks and holding a sandingblock against it.Cut a 1 1/2 inch wide belt out of 1/8 inch hard leather and glue it to theODof the disc. I used contact cement, which worked fine. The disc is now 6inchdiameter, same as most grinding wheels. Mount the disc on pillow blocksovera bench and drive with an electric motor. I use a salvaged appliance motorwhich runs at 1250 rpm. This is probably too fast, I would guesssomewhereunder 1000 is better with a wooden wheel. For a tool rest I simplyclamped ablock to the table top in such a way that the proper angle on the blade ismaintained.I attached a file to this message with a simple diagram of this rig. Iam not a computer whiz, but I think you can download and open it. It wascreated in Claris works on a Mac. The Diamond lapping compound may not be available locally. Try TraversTool (1-800-221- 0270 ) in NY. The stuff comes in different grits. I have usedthe4-8 micron size with great results. I have some lighter grits also, buthavenot seen fit to use them so far. Expect to pay about $ 20.00 for 5 grams,which should last for a while. To use, squeeze some compound on yourfingerand spread lightly on the leather. You will be amazed at the highlypolished,ultra sharp edge which is quickly produced. PS to Ron Barch - If you would like a version of this for The Planing Form,contact me via E- mail ( or whatever ) - Tom Smithwick --PART.BOUNDARY.0.25997.emout14.mail.aol.com.840119647 boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.25997.emout14.mail.aol.com.840119647-ad" --PART.BOUNDARY.0.25997.emout14.mail.aol.com.840119647-ad name="sharpening rig";X-Mac-Creator="424f424f";X-Mac-Type="43575750" AAUWBwACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAAJAAAAVgAAACAAAAAIAAAAdgAAABAAAAADAAAAhgAAAA4AAAACAAAAlAAAAAAAAAABAAAAlAAADKFDV1dQQk9CTwEAAJIBYQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAK44mrKuOJqyAAAAAK44mrJzaGFycGVuaW5nIHJpZw== --PART.BOUNDARY.0.25997.emout14.mail.aol.com.840119647-ad name="sharpening rig";X-Mac-Creator="424f424f";X-Mac-Type="43575750" 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--PART.BOUNDARY.0.25997.emout14.mail.aol.com.840119647-ad-- --PART.BOUNDARY.0.25997.emout14.mail.aol.com.840119647-- from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Thu Aug 15 09:40:46 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA09492 for; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 09:40:45 -0500 CDT Subject: Sure is quiet! I sure hope all this silence is because everyone is out fishing!!! So just to make sure the list is still processing our messages, Ithought I would send in some useless drival... Back in the days I built plastic rods, I always used nylon thread used silk before...is there really any difference in finished appearancein using 00 silk verses 00 nylon? Mike - hanging by thread - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from hadn@chevron.com Thu Aug 15 11:43:34 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA17083 for; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:43:22 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Thu, 15 Aug 1996 09:42:35 -0700 Thu, 15 Aug 1996 09:42:35 -0700 Subject: Fishing Bamboo 4.0.838.14Encoding: 28 TEXT I recently did my annual week long fishing trip with my family inthe California Sierra Nevada Mtns. I brought three graphite flyrods and two split cane rods I made myself. The split canerods are a 7' 6" 3 piece 3 wt and an 8' 3 piece 5wt. My son,who is 14 yrs old now, owns an 8' 2 piece graphite and an8' 2 piece split cane that I made for him. Over the course of the week we found that we never eventook our graphite rods out of their cases. We even did acouple backcountry hikes. I let my son use my 8' 3 piececane rod, and I used my other bamboo rod. Two of mygraphite rods are 4 piece for backpacking and traveling,but I ended up using the cane rods instead. I have nothing against graphite rods, and I've even recommended to some of my friends just starting outin flyfishing that they first use a graphite rod. But, I'msure that once someone starts fishing with a split canerod they won't go back to graphite. Of course I shouldqualify that with except in special cases, saltwater andother places requiring super long casts. Even then I'mnot too sure, a taper probably could be developed thateven handles those cases. Darryl Hayashida from bconner@cybercom.net Thu Aug 15 14:24:15 1996 ; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:24:08 -0500 PAA07464 for ; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 15:23:18-0400 Subject: Re: Sure is quiet! Back in the days I built plastic rods, I always used nylon thread used silk before...is there really any difference in finished appearancein using 00 silk verses 00 nylon? Oh yes, for sure. I always end up looking *much* more bedraggled afterputting down a wrap of silk than when I use nylon! :') Seriously, silk lays down better but is a bigger pain in the bazoo tohandle. If you take the time and do it right, it looks really nice. Ipersonally don't mind the way nylon looks anymore than I mind the way amodern varnish surface looks on a cane rod. Not traditional, but when donewell, it looks good. If you want to try your skill, use the Gossamer silk from Parsons. EnglishAngling Supply carries it. Man is it fine! Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu Aug 15 14:34:39 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09533 for ;Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:34:37 - 0500 Subject: Re: Sure is quiet! Michael Biondo wrote: I sure hope all this silence is because everyone is out fishing!!! So just to make sure the list is still processing our messages, Ithought I would send in some useless drival... Back in the days I built plastic rods, I always used nylon thread used silk before...is there really any difference in finished appearancein using 00 silk verses 00 nylon? Mike - hanging by thread - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo.Mike, I have a difficult time telling the difference after thewindings are varnished. But, if you choose to use silk, try not to touch it or feed it through any sort of contraption that might fray it. Its easy to fray or contaminate with errant oils but it is a bit more shiney than nylon. Is the look worth the difference? Probably not.John from caneman@clnk.com Thu Aug 15 15:44:32 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA16743 for; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 15:44:28 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA174 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: 2 wt. Jerry Foster wrote: Bob Nunley I've posted your taper on the archive..but is it a 6'2"? jwfJerry,This is a 6' rod. Hope some of the newer builders will try this taper. It's tough to build, but a dream to cast.BN from rmoon@dns.ida.net Thu Aug 15 15:45:59 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA16855 for ;Thu, 15 Aug 1996 15:45:56 - 0500 Subject: Re: Sure is quiet! Mike: It looks like only a few of us are around. For what it is worth, Silk does look better, but it has a few drawbacks. It is a bit more fragile, more subject to fuzzing from handling and wrapping, more expensive, harder to find, tougher to determine the final color after coating. Gee I don't think of many pluses, except I wouldn't use anything else on one of my rods. Ralph from caneman@clnk.com Thu Aug 15 15:54:54 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA17317 for; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 15:54:50 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA128 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: Fishing Bamboo Hayashida, Darryl N. (hadn) wrote:I'm sure that once someone starts fishing with a split canerod they won't go back to graphite. Of course I shouldqualify that with except in special cases, saltwater andother places requiring super long casts. Even then I'mnot too sure, a taper probably could be developed thateven handles those cases. Darryl Hayashida Darryl,There have been tapers to cast long lines that would handle saltwater requirements since the introduction of the PY Parabolic series. My tapers are compound, because that's the kind of rod I like, however one of the benefits of a proper compound taper is that it will load up in a different place on the rod with the weight of the line, and thus effect a long cast. For example, my Bonefish rod is a 8' 7wt that will cast a 90' line and 20' to 30' of backing... and that's with a DT line. Research the compound tapers. There different, but they're great on the water. Bob Nunley from hadn@chevron.com Thu Aug 15 16:14:48 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA18627 for; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 16:14:42 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:13:58 -0700 Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:13:58 -0700 Subject: RE: Sure is quiet! 4.0.838.14Encoding: 19 TEXT Back in the days I built plastic rods, I always used nylon thread used silk before...is there really any difference in finishedappearancein using 00 silk verses 00 nylon? Mike - hanging by thread - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. Yes there is. The silk smoothes out nicer when you use a burnishing tool on it. Nylon is stronger, won't break aseasy, but the strength of silk is well within any stressyou will put on it when wrapping it on. After that it's thestrength of the epoxy or varnish that you use on the wrapsand the relative strengths of silk or nylon really don't matter. Darryl Hayashida from cbogart@ibm.net Thu Aug 15 17:38:38 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA25034 for; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:38:35 -0500 SAA28568; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 18:37:57 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Calcutta Cane George Here is a good place to find access to just about every searchengine known to Cyberkind: http://www.ibm.net click on search iconand it will put you at http://www.ibm.net/search.html - there is a choiceof 18 different engines. Try Alta Vista or Yahoo or Lycos for starters. Happy surfing Chris from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Thu Aug 15 17:45:51 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA25733 for; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:45:49 -0500 #14244) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, Subject: Sure is quiet from cbogart@ibm.net Thu Aug 15 17:48:26 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA25983 for; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:48:24 -0500 SAA29066; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 18:47:38 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: RE: Sure is quiet! Mike Key to good wraping is not to let anything touch the threadregardlessof type. Wayne pointed this out to me a long time ago. Put the tension onthespool and not the thread and don't let anything touch the thread. A lot ofthe wrapping tools put tension on the thread and others put the tread througha metal guide - this frays the thread regardless of type. I use both nylon and silk - I like silk better - more translucent andlaysbetter. It is strong and doen't streach like nylon. So go for the look youwantas long as you don't fondle, mutilate, or spindle the thread. Chris from cbogart@ibm.net Thu Aug 15 17:55:23 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA26438 for; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:55:20 -0500 SAA29480; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 18:54:41 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Diamond sharpening Tom I saw George's stropping method last year at Roscoe. It does work.I sent to him an ad from one of my woodworking catalogs that have leatherstropping circles that fit into a drill chuck. Those less inclined could gothis way.Also found a souce of 10 and 5 micron non-diamond paste in same issue. Worksfine. I had problem opening your attachments. could you check and resend. Chris from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Aug 15 18:42:18 1996 ; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 18:42:15 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 19:41:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Diamond sharpening boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.582.emout17.mail.aol.com.840152487" --PART.BOUNDARY.0.582.emout17.mail.aol.com.840152487 Chris, Here is a second attempt to send the sharpening sketch, Hope itworks- Tom --PART.BOUNDARY.0.582.emout17.mail.aol.com.840152487 boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.582.emout17.mail.aol.com.840152487-ad" --PART.BOUNDARY.0.582.emout17.mail.aol.com.840152487-ad name="sharpening rig";X-Mac-Creator="424f424f";X-Mac-Type="43575750" AAUWBwACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAAJAAAAVgAAACAAAAAIAAAAdgAAABAAAAADAAAAhgAAAA4AAAACAAAAlAAAAAAAAAABAAAAlAAADKFDV1dQQk9CTwEA/////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAK44mrKuOJqyAAAAAK44mrJzaGFycGVuaW5nIHJpZw== --PART.BOUNDARY.0.582.emout17.mail.aol.com.840152487-ad name="sharpening rig";X-Mac-Creator="424f424f";X-Mac-Type="43575750" 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--PART.BOUNDARY.0.582.emout17.mail.aol.com.840152487-ad-- --PART.BOUNDARY.0.582.emout17.mail.aol.com.840152487-- from JohnNatk@aol.com Thu Aug 15 23:18:11 1996 ; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 23:18:09 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 00:17:27 -0400 Subject: 13" Spey Rod Ferrules The taper for the Spey Rod Mr. Tyree posted lists the butt diameter at11.50mm. If my math is correct (1.0mm = .03937") then that comes out toroughly .453". If this rod is built as a three piece then .453 = 29/64's.My question is, (if my math isn't off) where would someone get ferrulesthatlarge ( 28 or 29/64's)? Places like Classis Sporting Enterprises onlyadvertise ferrules to 24/64's. Is this why Mr. Marklund built it as a onepiece? from JohnNatk@aol.com Thu Aug 15 23:18:16 1996 ; Thu, 15 Aug 1996 23:18:15 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 00:17:32 -0400 Subject: 8' 7wt. Bonefish Rod Mr. Nunley,That Bonefish rod sounds incredible. (By the way, the 6' 2 wt. soundsnice also.) Has the taper for that Bonefish rod been listed before? (Ihaven't come across it in my limited searches of the archives.) If not, andif it's possible, I would like to see it. Thanks. from caneman@clnk.com Fri Aug 16 00:26:40 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA09400 for; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 00:26:35 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA169 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: 8' 7wt. Bonefish Rod Here's the Taper, Be careful... The nature of this rod makes the dimensions very, very critical. I hold my self to +.001 -.000 on finished half diameters. Flaming this rod makes a difference. Station Tip Butt0 .078 .2275 .088 .24210 .108 .249515 .120 .25820 .133 .267525 .1575 .27830 .177 .29035 .187 .30040 .203 .30045 .220 .30048 .227 .300 from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Aug 16 07:51:03 1996 ; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 07:51:01 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 08:50:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Sure is quiet! In a message dated 96-08-15 17:46:05 EDT, you write: If you want to try your skill, use the Gossamer silk from Parsons. EnglishAngling Supply carries it. Man is it fine! Bruce Conner Hi Bruce:Do you have an 800 number for EAS? Would greatly appreciate getting it.Thanks,RTyree from caneman@clnk.com Fri Aug 16 09:13:38 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA20761 for; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 09:13:36 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA174 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: 13" Spey Rod Ferrules JohnNatk@aol.com wrote: The taper for the Spey Rod Mr. Tyree posted lists the butt diameter at11.50mm.My question is, (if my math isn't off) where would someone get ferrulesthatlarge ( 28 or 29/64's)? Places like Classis Sporting Enterprises onlyadvertise ferrules to 24/64's. John,If the taper was originally for a one piece rod, then you need to graph it out, calculate the stress curve and recalculate the taper to allow for the stresses imparted by the weight of the ferrules. You may find that you need a slightly larger ferrule than a 29. Once you figure out exactly what you need, contact Dick Spurr at the Classic Angler. If he doesn't have some quality 29's then all I know to tell you is get a bottle of aspirin and go to the lathe. David LeClair at the Rod and Fly Room will sell you the nickel silver to turn out the ferrules. Good Luck, Bob Nunley from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Fri Aug 16 09:14:53 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA20807 for; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 09:14:52 -0500 splinter.boeing.com with SMTP(1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA028034771; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 07:12:51 -0700 Organization: r-5113 Subject: search engines I think I found the ultimate search engine, it has 37 different search engines,I suppose I've used the wrong terminology but I think you get thepicture. It is ,give it a try it's full of an incredible amount of stuff including the yellow pages address but also will give you a map to find the business. Patrick from bconner@cybercom.net Fri Aug 16 09:33:35 1996 ; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 09:33:32 -0500 KAA21163 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:32:44-0400 Subject: Re: Sure is quiet! In a message dated 96-08-15 17:46:05 EDT, you write: If you want to try your skill, use the Gossamer silk from Parsons.EnglishAngling Supply carries it. Man is it fine! Bruce Conner Hi Bruce:Do you have an 800 number for EAS? Would greatly appreciate getting it.Thanks,RTyree Sorry, I don't. Try calling 1-800-555-1212 and asking the niceinformationpeople. Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Fri Aug 16 10:02:35 1996 ; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:02:34 -0500 (5.x/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Re: 8' 7wt. Bonefish Rod Thanks for posting the taper Bob. Since I'm kinda new at this stuffwhat size ferrule would you use? The .227 diameter is betweena 14/64 and a 15/64 ferrule size. In a fog,Jerryballard@zen.wes.army.mil from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Fri Aug 16 10:44:14 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA25336 for; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 10:44:09 -0500 XAA22256; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 23:43:06 +0800 (WST) Subject: Glue Hi, me again chasing comments regarding sourcing gear in Australia. I'd like to pose some questions to the group regarding glue. Possibly it's athread of interest. It certainly is amonst wooden boat builders. from what I can see, there are three main types of recomended glue.ResorcinolNyatex EpoxyURAC 185Not necess in that order. Now, my questions are these.Resorcinol I know, it's available everywhere by name. Nyatex Epoxy, this is not available here, does anybody know the properties which make it acceptable over West System for eg? URAC 185. This stuff's listed in the Garret Wade catalgue but not availablehereover the counter due to it's short shelf life. Unless it's flown out, it'slife'smostly over before it hits the shop shelves. from what I can gather URAC 185 is Urea Formaldehyde glue, possiblyMelaminefortified.The type I've seen here is sold as a powder glue which is mixed withwater, thena liquid hardener added, it's made by an Australian company called Sellysand theglue is called Sellys 308.Comments? Possibly to add to the list of possible glues is a type called Casein whichisa milk derivative.This stuff's been around for years and was very popular with Australianand UK(possibly US also?) boat builders pre epoxy. Still used by some cabinetmakersbecause it allows for a fine glueline finish. It's not quite as waterproof asUrea Formaldehyde, but has the advantage of being a single mix glue, itjustmixes with water without hardener so it's good in small doses. It alsoworks ina wide temp range, however it will cure quickly in the pot if you don't cool it somehow. Dosn't seem to be a use by time.I've used it lots in spar and oar making without any problems, I'm just notsurehow it'd go with the continual flexing of a rod.Comments? The subject of rod flex leads me to my last question.Of the recomended glues, are these recomended (apart fromwaterproofness) becauseother glues delaminate when stressed by flexing, or something else? Tony Young from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 16 12:28:51 1996 MAA29839 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:28:48-0500 dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA11429 for; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 09:43:00 -0700 Organization: Bohls Financial Services Subject: Re: PSA numbers This message is important, not only for men, but for women who have menin their lives. I hope that all of you do take the time to get throughall of this message. I can really appreciate what Chuck Orvis had to say. About six weeksago I was also told that I have prostate cancer. Had it not been forsome emergency surgery I had earlier in the year, I would have neverknown until it was too late. I's not that I dislike doctors but I don'tgo to doctors unless I sick and I'm never sick. As a last act from theprevious problem (I had two holes in my stomach that were pumping bloodout faster than they could get it in to me so they had to go in and sewthem up) my doctor said he wanted to do one more blood test -- the PSA.He had done the digital exam and found nothing. (I'm 58 years old)Surprise -- the PSA number was 7. Normal is 4. So he set me up with aUrologist. His digital found nothing but he scheduled me for asonogram. That showed a small abnormality -- he did a biopsy and thereit was. Fortunately we caught this thing very early on so that itshould be totally confined to the prostate gland. Some things that I have learned: 1) This year 185,000 women will find out they have breast cancer --over 300,000 men will find out they have prostate cancer. A much moreserious problem, yet not the publicity and we 'machos' don't tend towant to talk about it. 2) In a very extensive study of men age 30 to 50 who died fromnon-cancer related causes, 25% of the 30 to 40 year olds had prostatecanceer, 36% of the 40 to 50 year olds had prostate cancer. Myuneducated guess is that if you are between 50 and 60 your chances ofhaving prostate cancer are greater that 50%. And it goes up from there. 3) Caught early enough, if there is such a thing it's probably the"best" kind of cancer to have as it is very treatable -- just get thething out. It's a useless and unecessary gland any way. There could besome post surgery problems but the alternative isn't too attractive.These side effects can be handled. 4) Types of treatment -- in addition to surgery -- include harmone(only a temporary solution), radiation, either outside or crystles theyimplant, freezing, or if you are old enough -- over 70 to 75 -- wait andwatch. However, assuming it's all in the prostate, surgery is reallythe only choice. If other choices are made, you lose surgery as analternative. 5) In addition to Bob Dole, Norm Schwartzkoff, Norm Levy, and I thinkGeorge Sieffert all had prostate surgery because of cancer. 6) If a man lives to age 90, he will have prostate cancer. The goodnews is that the older you discover this, assuming regular checks, theless the problem. After age 77 or so, you will probably die ofsomething else. 7) In my estimation, the digetal exam is worthless -- it will onlyconfirm that you have a problem. It will not tell you that you do nothave a problem. Do not rely on the digetal exam -- insist on the PSAblood test! If your doctor won't do this, change doctors. Bottom line: If you are between 40 and 50, do PSA's every other year.Over 50 it should be every year. Numbers over 4 require a sonogram andmaybe a biopsy. Even if the numbers are below 4, if there is an upwardmovement, have a sonogram. A good source of additional info is the current (August) Reader'sDigest. Michel Korda, managing senior editor with Simon and Schuster,also had prostate cancer and has written a book that is condensed inthis issue. I know that this is off topic and I'm risking the ire of severalmembers, but it is important.Know Your Numbers and monotor them regularly! Fred Bohls fishers, tyers and rod builders. I have to be in good hands. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011-9698Office: (717) 732-2448Fax: (717) 732-2414e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com from hadn@chevron.com Fri Aug 16 17:43:04 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA13955 for; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:43:02 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Fri, 16 Aug 1996 15:42:19 -0700 Fri, 16 Aug 1996 15:42:19 -0700 Subject: RE: Glue 4.0.838.14Encoding: 258 TEXT Well, here's the glue thread again...We really should put together a glue FAQ.I'm including a few excerpts from previous posts.Darryl Hayashida ******************************************************************** From: Chris Bogart Subject: Shell Epon EpoxyDate: Friday, June 14, 1996 7:57PM I had been looking for an alternative to Nyatex epoxy becausethe heat cure phase used by this glue can and did cause a failure insplice joint when using Titebond-II or other like glue when makingsplices for nodeless rods. This is not a problem if you use Urac as aprimary glue.As a result I have tried Shell Epon Epoxy that was reccomended reported it in the Planing Form. It is also known as "Dinasouar Glue" evaluate it or try it. I did and it worked just fine. Here is acomparison with Nyatex (which I used previously).- Shell Epon has a thicker consistancy than Nyatex. It ismixed one to one. 10 grams of each will yield enough for each section.This is not a critical mix.- It is spread easily with a toothbrush.- Glued strips can be handled easier than with Nyatex. Due tothe thickerconsistancy, the masking tape doesn't become as moist fall off andstill sticks well to the strips. This is a bonus.- Each glue runs through the binder equally easy.- As with Nyatex it cleans up easily with White Vinegar.- Each gives adequate handling time to straighten strips priorto hanging to dry.- The Shell was dry in 24 hours - Although, I did not get toremove the glue for 48 hours due to "honey do's".- After hitting half hitches with a mill bastard file I couldpull the binding cordoff of the blank with no problem. This is a B I G plus over Nyatex -which you have to file / sand off. Much time and work saved here.- I easily scraped and sanded the Blank.- The seams and color were as good as Nyatex. Over all, I am switching to this glue because it ends up easierto use with as good results - using no heat cure. This is just anotherglue alternative for rodmakers. I ordered mine through Miller - Stephenson Chemical Co. (theyrepackage Shell products). They ask for a company name so give them -(Your name) rod company - to save a hassle if you don't have a businesslic. They ask for no more info than that. Phone nrs: Connecticut (203) 743-4447California (818) 896-4714Illinois (708) 966-2022Canada (416) 675-3204 Tech info: 1-800-992-2424 / Canada call 800-323-4621 (8 - 4)Eastern Time Product info: Epon Resin : 828 Qt. price$19.50Epi-Cure 3140 Curing Agent Qt. price$20.75Shipping was $3.65 Bill Fink has been using his last batch for 6 years - so goodshelf life. He uses it for other things as well and swears by it. Ican understand why now. He claims there still are things on the moonheld together by this epoxy. ****************************************************************************** I have just finished (except for the last coats of tung oil),my latest project, a 7' 6" 3 piece, 3-4 wt. with a hollowhandle section. I used Excel glue to assemble the wholething, except the wraps (you'll see why in a minute). Excel glue is a very strong extremely waterproof glue.It has a very long working time, listed as 20 to 30 min.but a lot longer than that if you chill it in a refrigeratorbefore use.It fills in gaps, which is good if the gap is hidden, badin the way it fills in the gap. This glue, as it is hardeningforms bubbles internally, giving it a frothy appearance.Not bad if the space it is filling is not seen, but unsightlyif the gap is seen, such as between cork layers in thehandle, between the handle and reel seat, etc. Also,you have to watch the rod as the glue is hardeningbecause it will seep out from between the joints. Thisdidn't happen when gluing the splines because thepressure from the binding cord, but in assembling thehandle and reel seat I was constantly wiping off dripsas the glue expanded and leaked out of the joints. At first I thought this glue would be great for finishingguide wraps, but as I saw how it frothed up as it dried,I rejected that idea. I do like the idea of if the are any gaps under the handleand reel seat, (shouldn't be if I fitted them perfectly, butyou know how that goes), they are filled by the glue as itdries. I think Excel is better than Tiebond II for gluing splines, andif you can take the time to wipe drips off of your handle andreel seat for the first two hours, then it is good for gluinghandles and reel seats. But other than being a one partglue instead of having to mix it, I don't think it's any betterthan a long setting epoxy. One thing I have been thinking about though, is if I made ahollow rod, and filled the hollow with this glue, as it hardenedand frothed up it would be almost like a foam core, very light,and very strong. on the top surface and makes it very hard to squeeze it out thenext time you use it. Darryl Hayashidadnh@chevron.com ********************************************************************* ADHESIVES UPDATE Urea Formaldehyde glue came into use just prior to World War II in theaircraft industry. It was used to laminate wood structures and fabricsin air-frame applications. water resistance, and adequate open time, so that straightening can bedone before drying. UF's are available in a variety of formulationswhich possess flexibility in storage, working temperature, drying andopen times. There are at least two makers of urea formaldehyde resins and catalystsin the United States: Borden and American Cyanamid. Borden owns theCasco Resin trademark and American Cyanamid owns the "Urac" apellation.The following are addresses where each of these products may beobtained. Borden of Canada can provide dealers with "CR5H" . As far asI can determine, CR5H is L-100 resin. Casco Resin Custom-Pak Adhesives11047 Lambs LaneNewark Ohio 43055 URAC Nelson Paint CompanyP.O. Box 907Iron Mountain MI Mr. Kent Pitcher, of Custom-Pak Adhesives has been most generous onsharing his expertise in adhesives and catalysts for this article. Hehas formulated a mixture using Borden's L-100 resin. This mixture isfairly thin, yet it delivers more than enough resin to create a maximumstrength bond. Borden recommends a 40% delivery of resin to the joint is 65% resins, it is obvious that there is a considerable leeway in thecatalyst- resin mixture. Actually, S-120 and S-125(summer) catalysts canvary from 10% to 24% of a mixture and still deliver enough resin to thejoint to insure a maximum strength bond at the edge. This fact allowsthe user to vary both viscosity and reactivity. Up to 24% of mixture(catalyst), the cross linking process procedes faster as more catalystis used. At contrations of hardener of more than 24%, the reactionslows down because of a buffering effect. Here is a bench-mark mixturethat works. This can be varied according the needs of open time,temperature and viscosity.100 pts resin20 pts catalyst(S-100 or S-120)10 pts Water7.5 pts GF-10 wetting solutionYou may ask what GF-10 is. It is a wetting agent that makes the mixtureflow better.This already exists as a percentage of the liquid resin (especially URAC). However, up to 10% more is allowable. Five to eightpercent is considered optimal. Urea formaldehyde also comes in dry form. It has a much longer shelflife than the liquid form. But, in all other respects, it is the sameas the L-100 resin. It just lacks the water. Borden's version is calledCascamite. Urea formaldehyde mixtures cure completely in about four days attemperatures between 75 and 90 F. They can be heat cured very rapidly.I suggest you do some experimenting here. Both American Cyanamid andBorden will provide the user with information on heat curing. In anycase, I always allow my glued sections to rest a while after gluing.I'm not sure that one needs to do this- I do it. OTHER ADHESIVES Resorcinol is probably the best glue ever formulated for cane. It isthe strongest, most craze resistant, and most water-proof of the non-epoxy formulations. Its big draw-back is its purple color. But, thanksto Hoagy Carmichael, that problem can be mitigated. Check out page 94of the latest edition of "the Book". This should work on UF glues.Especially, if on wanted white URAC. Casein glues are protein based glues of great strength and pretty-goodwater resistance. Anyone who has tried to remove milk paint shouldknow. However, its craze resistance and shear resistance is not sogood. Its open time is short too. But, a lot of old timers used it andit worked. Hide glues are strong. As long as the joints are dry, no problem. Justthink about a 250 year old violin built for gut strings holding itselftogether ( strung now with steel) with hide glue. And, if you've everwitnessed the string players at an outdoor concert run like hell whenit starts to rain, you'll know why hide glue might not be so good forfly rods. Acid catalyzed PVA's are being used by at least one will-known rodmaker to very good effect. However, make sure that you get one thatcross-links at an 85% ,of more, rate. Without a high rate ofpolymerization, you may experience joint- creep ( movement under theclamps) or you might find that you had a relatively low waterresistance. The good thing about this class of adhesives is that, giventhe correct formulation, the bond is thermoplastic. The glue softenswhen heat is applied. Rod sections bonded with this class of gluesshould be easy to straighten. Much more so than other glues. Melamine bonds to slick surfaces- like other melimines. In otherrespects, it seems to be a good prospect for cane makers. I know thatthere is an old Leonard formula kicking around for a ureaformaldehyde/melamine mixture. I think I could exhume it if anyone wereinterested. And lastly, there are the Epoxy resins. They exist in such a plethoraof brands and formulations that it is nearly impossible to comment ofall but a few that might available to the rodmaker. Epoxy offers themaker great strength and absolute resistance to moisture. But, you hadbetter have your rod straight before you allow the resin to cure. Epoxyglued rods seem to have a greater resistance to heat straightening thanany other rod that I know. In fact, it is quite possible to applyenough heat while straightening to produce a catastrophic failure ofthe glued seams. All that being said, if you're good with your binderand can straighten before the glue cures, epoxy resins offer thestrongest and most durable bond available. Of late, Bill Fink has beenusing a blend of epoxies that respond well to heat straightening afterthe curing process has occurred. Bill has been using a 50/50 mix ofShell Epon 829 and Versimid V-40 to very good effect. I suggest thatyou make contact with Bill if you wish to pursue this possibility ENDJ. C. Zimny from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Aug 16 17:43:36 1996 ; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:43:34 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:42:51 -0400 Subject: Code Writing It appears that I'm hopelessly lost in the seventies - I have beenmaking some progress with a few revisions and additions to Hexrod. OnceagainI'm still using GWbasis as a start point. I am looking for some commentsandperhaps insight to the modern way of computer thinking - programmingwise.Understand I personally dislike windows - a true dos diehard - I believethatwith the program runnable in dos there will be more that can use it.Pleaserecommend ??? Wayne Just and my old XT from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Fri Aug 16 18:14:17 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA14909 for; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:14:16 -0500 #14244) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, Subject: Re: Sure is slow I recently finished wrapping with silk for the first time. Going in I wasaware of the problems of touching (learned from earlier experiments. Iusedseveral pairs of tight fitting latex gloves the kind they use in labs tokeep the oil from my hands from the silk. It worked fine an allowed me normal functioning. The only down side to silk I found was that it does not slide as nicely when burnishing as nylon.Gerald Johnson from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Fri Aug 16 18:28:40 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA15340 for; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:28:39 -0500 #14244) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, Subject: RE:code writing Can't really help with your problem Wayne but many thanks for stayingwithdos from another diehard.Gerald Johnson from caneman@clnk.com Fri Aug 16 18:34:46 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA15592 for; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:34:44 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA128 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: 8' 7wt. Bonefish Rod Jerry Ballard wrote: Thanks for posting the taper Bob. Since I'm kinda new at this stuffwhat size ferrule would you use? The .227 diameter is betweena 14/64 and a 15/64 ferrule size. In a fog,Jerryballard@zen.wes.army.milJerry,This won't be much help because I make my own ferrules and the one I make for that is between a few thousandths larger than a 14. Youshould be just fine using the 14. Use a standard type super Z. The fog will get lighter as time goes on... Bob from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 16 19:38:24 1996 TAA17619 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 19:38:23-0500 dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA06477 for; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 17:37:38 -0700 Organization: Bohls Financial Services Subject: Re: Glue Hayashida, Darryl N. (hadn) wrote: Well, here's the glue thread again...We really should put together a glue FAQ.I'm including a few excerpts from previous posts.Darryl Hayashida ******************************************************************** As a relative 'new guy' to the list who is here to learn, I reallyappreciate the up-date. Any other additional comments would beappreciated as well. Also, as an internet dummie, I still can't seem to understand how toaccess the ARCHIVES now that they are a part of the list. ;No problemwith the 'home-page' part -- just the things since about 8 July. Anyhelp in how to create access, files, etc would be very helpful andappreciated. I really appreciate the sharing and learning that goes on here. thanksto all.FRED from caneman@clnk.com Fri Aug 16 19:55:05 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA18275 for; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 19:55:03 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA93 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: Glue Fred Bohls, CFP wrote: Hayashida, Darryl N. (hadn) wrote: Well, here's the glue thread again...We really should put together a glue FAQ.I'm including a few excerpts from previous posts.Darryl Hayashida ******************************************************************** As a relative 'new guy' to the list who is here to learn, I reallyappreciate the up-date. Any other additional comments would beappreciated as well. Also, as an internet dummie, I still can't seem to understand how toaccess the ARCHIVES now that they are a part of the list. ;No problemwith the 'home-page' part -- just the things since about 8 July. Anyhelp in how to create access, files, etc would be very helpful andappreciated. I really appreciate the sharing and learning that goes on here. thanksto all.FREDDitto Fred's comments on the Archives... Iam an old C++ programmer, but this internet stuff is new to an old DOS Dummy.Nunley from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 16 20:25:16 1996 UAA19452 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 20:25:15-0500 dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA08853 for; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 18:24:32 -0700 Organization: Bohls Financial Services Subject: Re: Glue Robert Nunley Jr. wrote: Fred Bohls, CFP wrote: Hayashida, Darryl N. (hadn) wrote: Well, here's the glue thread again...We really should put together a glue FAQ.I'm including a few excerpts from previous posts.Darryl Hayashida ******************************************************************** As a relative 'new guy' to the list who is here to learn, I reallyappreciate the up-date. Any other additional comments would beappreciated as well. Also, as an internet dummie, I still can't seem to understand how toaccess the ARCHIVES now that they are a part of the list. ;No problemwith the 'home-page' part -- just the things since about 8 July. Anyhelp in how to create access, files, etc would be very helpful andappreciated. I really appreciate the sharing and learning that goes on here. thanksto all.FREDDitto Fred's comments on the Archives...I am an old C++ programmer, butthis internet stuff is new to an old DOS Dummy.Nunley Thanks -- I'm certainly glad to see that I'm not the only one in thedark.....FRED~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011-9698Office: (717) 732-2448Fax: (717) 732-2414e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com from jfoster@gte.net Fri Aug 16 20:50:08 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA19825 for; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 20:50:06 -0500 (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA183366553; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 20:49:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Glue If you'all are discussing the home1 archives i've just set myself up forauto download but untill mike returns for where ever he is i can'trecove the old stuff yet myself.. Help Mike from jfoster@gte.net Fri Aug 16 20:51:46 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA19874 for; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 20:51:44 -0500 (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA186906659; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 20:51:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Code Writing Wayne,maybe you can get Chris and Mike and some of the other computerprofessionals to chirp in here also. Sorry but clinging to dos is like clinging to your log/log when youdiscovered dos.. It may have its appeal to those who won't upgrade butno-one I know runs dos except to pick up a few old programs..now if youwon't run windows because of big brother bill.. but he gets royalties basic..check out the code in hexrod.exl.. remember your computer is a tool.. good tools are worth the investment. jwf from jfoster@gte.net Fri Aug 16 21:36:42 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA21030 for; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:36:41 -0500 (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA269769356; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:35:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Glue I BROKE THE CODE .. the rma archives should be updated in about 15 mijwf from bconner@cybercom.net Fri Aug 16 21:52:53 1996 ; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:52:51 -0500 WAA22006 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 22:52:03-0400 Subject: Re: Code Writing It appears that I'm hopelessly lost in the seventies - I have beenmaking some progress with a few revisions and additions to Hexrod. OnceagainI'm still using GWbasis as a start point. I am looking for some commentsandperhaps insight to the modern way of computer thinking - programmingwise.Understand I personally dislike windows - a true dos diehard - I believethatwith the program runnable in dos there will be more that can use it.Pleaserecommend ??? You have a few ways to go. Visual Basic (very good, very easy) Delphi(more power, still pretty simple) Java (harder to learn, but has crossplatform capability as a standalone doc or could be run on the web as anapplet.) Dos is finally dead even in my book. The only reason to use it is if youhave some old machines around and want to use them for some sort ofcontrolor something. My lagering temp control will be running on an old 286. Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Fri Aug 16 21:55:14 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA21692 for; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:55:08 -0500 KAA18415; Sat, 17 Aug 1996 10:54:19 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Glue Hayashida, Darryl N. (hadn) wrote: Well, here's the glue thread again...We really should put together a glue FAQ.I'm including a few excerpts from previous posts.Darryl Hayashida ******************************************************************** Many thanks for that. Tony Young from jfoster@gte.net Fri Aug 16 21:56:08 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA21731 for; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:56:07 -0500 (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA006710524; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:55:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Glue The text rma files are current.. sorry about all the x.400 stuffjwf from jfoster@gte.net Fri Aug 16 21:59:40 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA21790 for; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:59:39 -0500 (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA013760735; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:58:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Code Writing jwf from jfoster@gte.net Fri Aug 16 22:01:39 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA21893 for; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 22:01:38 -0500 (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA017710854; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 22:00:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Code Writing Bruce I agree.. but I think JAVA takes a 32 bit machinejwf from bconner@cybercom.net Fri Aug 16 22:06:22 1996 ; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 22:06:19 -0500 XAA22813 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 23:05:31-0400 Subject: Re: Code Writing Wayne, Upon further reflection, I'd say go with Visual Basic. Your GWBasicknowledge will be pretty portable to it and the only real hurdle will begetting the idea of event driven rather than sequential programmingthroughto your brain. :')Best thing to do would be to get the program, and get a couple of the"Teach Yourself VB in 21 days" and the Visual Basic For Dummies" booksandgo through the excercises. You'll be sold on it in short order. I still use VB version 3.0 and I understand VB4 is fine, but not quite thesame. Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from rwbaus@avana.net Fri Aug 16 22:47:45 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA23213 for; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 22:47:41 -0500 1201PM) Subject: Re: Code Writing In , on 08/16/96 at 11:05PM,bconner@cybercom.net (Bruce Conner) said: Wayne, Upon further reflection, I'd say go with Visual Basic. Your GWBasicknowledge will be pretty portable to it and the only real hurdle will begetting the idea of event driven rather than sequential programmingthrough to your brain. :')Best thing to do would be to get the program, and get a couple of the"Teach Yourself VB in 21 days" and the Visual Basic For Dummies" booksand go through the excercises. You'll be sold on it in short order. I still use VB version 3.0 and I understand VB4 is fine, but not quitethe same. Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net Ok, I must chime in in public. DOS is slowly going the way of the DoDobird. But every operating system I can think of, in the PC arena, can runDOS applications. As far as developing using VB. If you need to learn anew language, at least learn one that produces a real application, notsome piece of runtime bloated ! Aside from the fact that BillG. is the Anti-Christ; My experience has proven, to me, all MS windowsoperating systems SUCK! If you want to learn a GUI development tool tryDelphi. At least Delphi will produce a true compiled application. I apologize for going on with this topic in a place that should bereserved for pleasure and not some work related activity. -----------------------------------------------------------rwbaus@avana.net@ (Robert W. Bausum Jr.)Robert W. Bausum Jr.Head FishCreel Consulting, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------- from jfoster@gte.net Fri Aug 16 22:48:43 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA23235 for; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 22:48:41 -0500 (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA099143677; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 22:47:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Diamond sharpening Tom SmithwickDoes clarisworks have a save as option.. If it does does it have pict.or some format other than wks.. if it does I can extract it and save itin multiple formats on the archive.. the only mac package i don't seemto have is claris works.You can just send it as an attatchment without the textthanks, I hope jwf from 76375.2274@CompuServe.COM Fri Aug 16 22:56:00 1996 WAA23435 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 199622:55:59 -0500 Subject: HEDDON BLACK BEAUTY Just finished redoing a 8'6" Heddon #17 Black Beauty 2F HDH or E 3 Piece fellow and thought that some one might like to have the taper. The rod wasmeasured after the varnish was removed. Three measurements were takenat eachstation and averaged. Each section is 34.5", grip lenght 6.75" reel seat3.5". Iam not sure how to accuratley determine ferrules while they are on therod butI'm guessing 11/64 and 17/64Butt Mid Tip #1 Tip #20- Grip 2"-.260 0-.161 0-.1645- Grip 5 -.253 .155 .15510-.415 .240 .137 .14215-.324 .226 .128 .12820-.316 .211 .113 .11225-.300 .195 .100 .09630-.287 .180 .084 .08132-.285 32.5".175 33.75".072 .073 Hope that this is the way to do this, if not some one set me straight. Chuck Irvinetroutless in southern california from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Aug 16 23:28:33 1996 ; Fri, 16 Aug 1996 23:28:32 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 17 Aug 1996 00:27:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Code Writing In a message dated 96-08-16 23:15:32 EDT, you write: I still use VB version 3.0 and I understand VB4 is fine, but not quite thesame. Does that mean that my copy of Visual Basic 1.00 is a bit outdated -Whyis it that the more I hang around with you guys the older I feel.The revisions for Hexrod or Hex - Ninety Hex are:1) disk input and output (done)2) ability to change varibles and recalculate during one session (done)3) Figure deflection coordinates with varying tip loads (mostly done)4) figure energy information - ergs (some what done)5) figure ideal guide location under deflection - line angle to guides( justan idea)6) add terminology like "amplitude" to profile and catagorize tapers( itlooks good on paper) - Yes Jerry, I got the computer to recognize aparabolicaction Whats needed now -1) standardized file input - so *.tpr files will cross platforms.2) to properly divide the range of amplitude for the different 'buzz' wordsie (fast - medium fast- ........) Hexrod has grown from 500 lines to Hex - Ninety Hex at over 1000 - Ithink Icould add a do loop or two and the program could self run - By that, if youcollected enough tapers on disk the program could run all of them and thencreate an assending order index and then compare them all for any uniquedeviations Wayne from lblan@oeonline.com Fri Aug 16 23:36:56 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA24756 for ;Fri, 16 Aug 1996 23:36:54 -0500 (Smail3.1.28.1 #3) id m0urcxX-0003hBC; Sat, 17 Aug 96 00:26 EDT Subject: Re: Code Writing Gee... this sounds like something I've heard before. Great job!Larry Blan------- ---The revisions for Hexrod or Hex - Ninety Hex are:1) disk input and output (done)2) ability to change varibles and recalculate during one session (done)3) Figure deflection coordinates with varying tip loads (mostly done)4) figure energy information - ergs (some what done)5) figure ideal guide location under deflection - line angle to guides(justan idea)6) add terminology like "amplitude" to profile and catagorize tapers( itlooks good on paper) - Yes Jerry, I got the computer to recognize aparabolicaction Whats needed now -1) standardized file input - so *.tpr files will cross platforms.2) to properly divide the range of amplitude for the different 'buzz'wordsie (fast - medium fast- ........) from mrj@seanet.com Sat Aug 17 01:09:58 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA27132 for; Sat, 17 Aug 1996 01:09:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Diamond sharpening Tom,Yes Claris works has a "save as" option.You cannot save as a PICT or TIFFfile though. You CAN save as TEXT or RTF or a number of other formats. TheTEXT or RTF can be opened by a varity of different applications. In message writes:Tom SmithwickDoes clarisworks have a save as option.. If it does does it have pict.or some format other than wks.. if it does I can extract it and save itin multiple formats on the archive.. the only mac package i don't seemto have is claris works.You can just send it as an attatchment without the textthanks, I hope jwf Martin Jensen "Fishing tackle: This is an extreme but useful maneuver for preventing afellow conclaver angler fromreaching the best fishing hole before you do. - McManis Daffynitions " from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Sat Aug 17 07:20:42 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA01909 for; Sat, 17 Aug 1996 07:20:38 -0500 UAA29310; Sat, 17 Aug 1996 20:19:51 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Code Writing I still use VB version 3.0 and I understand VB4 is fine, but not quite thesame. Does that mean that my copy of Visual Basic 1.00 is a bit outdated -Whyis it that the more I hang around with you guys the older I feel. Nope, VB for DOS only got as far as ver 1.0 and it's unlikely to even get to ver 1.01.VB 3.0 and 4 are Windoze OS VB.C is a better language to learn if you want to learn another as it ports across dif OS easily and if you go to c++ same story. It's also a better language for calculations of the type you mention AND there are still quite a few DOS compilers around. Somebody else mentioned that ALL Windoze machines will run DOS aps not forgetting that a DOS prog will usually fit on a single diskette with room to spare, not so with a lot of progs writen in oop type languages. Tony from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Aug 17 11:16:11 1996 ; Sat, 17 Aug 1996 11:16:09 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 17 Aug 1996 09:26:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Diamond sharpening boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.508.emout19.mail.aol.com.840288402" --PART.BOUNDARY.0.508.emout19.mail.aol.com.840288402 Martin Jensen writes name="RTF sharpening rig" {\rtf0\mac\deff21{\fonttbl{\f1959 \fnil American Heritage;}{\f12777\fnil=Avant Garde;}{\f12760 \fnil Benguiat Frisky;}{\f12939 \fnil BernhardMod=ern;}{\f13001 \fnil Bookman;}{\f11 \fnil Cairo;}{\f0 \fswiss Chicago;}{\f=1025 \fnil ClosedCaption2;}{\f12981 \fnil Cooper Black;}{\f22 \fmodernCo=urier;}{\f15900 \fnil Dom Casual;}{\f9840 \fnil Espy Sans;}{\f9842 \fnil=Espy Sans Bold;}{\f14809 \fnil eWorld Tight;}{\f3 \fswissGeneva;}{\f1276=2 \fnil Graphite Light;}{\f12770 \fnil Graphite Light Narrow;}{\f21 \fswi=ss Helvetica;}{\f15 \fswiss Helvetica Narrow;}{\f6 \fdecorLondon;}{\f876=3 \fnil Lucida Casual;}{\f9998 \fnil Milestones;}{\f4 \fmodern Monaco;}{\=f13005 \fnil New Century Schoolbook;}{\f2 \froman New York;}{\f16\froman=Palatino;}{\f13003 \fnil Phyllis;}{\f13000 \fnil Poster Bodoni;}{\f1899 =\fnil PTE;}{\f15054 \fnil Signet Roundhand;}{\f3228 \fnilStateGothic;}{\=f23 \ftech Symbol;}{\f1024 \fnil TaxLine;}{\f20 \froman Times;}{\f12761\=fnil Torino Outline;}{\f13009 \fnil Zapf Chancery;}{\f13010 \fnil Zapf Di=ngbats;}}{\colortbl\red255\green255\blue255;\red0\green0\blue0;\red255\green0\blue=0;\red0\green255\blue0;\red0\green0\blue255;\red0\green255\blue255;\red25=5\green0\blue255;\red255\green255\blue0;}{\stylesheet{\sbasedon222\snext Normal;}}\paperw12240\paperh15820\margt1440\margb1440\margl1440\margr1440\widowctr=l\ftnbj\ftnrestart\ftnstart1\pgnstart1\deftab720\sectd\linemod0\linex0\co=ls1\colsx0\pard\plain\pard\ql{\plain\f21\fs24\cf1{\pict\macpict\picw456\pich130 05=98ffffffff008101c7001102ff0c00ffffffffffff0000ffff000001c7000000810000000=00000001affffffffffff0001000affffffff008101c70009000000000000000000610035=00c8004800c9010e005a000700000000002200bd008d000000a100b600040001000100a10=0b6000400010001001a0000000000000007000100010009ffffffffffffffff0068010e00=5a001affffffffffff000900000000000000000051001a00da006c012c000700000000002=3000000a100b600040001000100a100b6000400010001001a000000000000000700010001=0009ffffffffffffffff0058001affffffffffff000900000000000000000051003500f50=05101110007000000000023000000a100b600040001000100a100b6000400010001001a00=00000000000007000100010009ffffffffffffffff0058001affffffffffff00090000000=0000000000051001a0014006c00660007000000000023000000a100b600040001000100a1=00b6000400010001001a0000000000000007000100010009ffffffffffffffff0058001af=fffffffffff000900000000000000000051002c002f0048004b0007000000000023000000=a100b600040001000100a100b6000400010001001a0000000000000007000100010009fff=fffffffffffff00580007000000000023000000a100b600040001000100a100b600040001=000100070001000100220050001400240007000000000023000000a100b60004000100010=0a100b600040001000100070001000100220050006500240007000000000023000000a100=b600040001000100a100b60004000100010007000100010023af000007000000000023000=000a100b600040001000100a100b600040001000100070001000100200047003800500107=0007000000000023000000a100b600040001000100a100b60004000100010007000100010=020002c0041003501070007000000000023000000a100b600040001000100a100b6000400=03000300070006000600200072014d0072000000a10096000a01000000020000000000000=cffeb00000001000a00000000000e00750007000000000022000000000000002c000c0015=0948656c76657469636100030015000d000c002e000400000000002a0a054d6f746f72000=0a00097000c001500000001000affffffff008101c70022000a001f000000a100b6000400=03000300a100b600040001000100a0008c0071001a00100039001b0042001b00420014003=900100042001b0042000700010001002200080038091100a0008d001affffffffffff0009=0000000000000000003100620146007501500007000000000023000000a100b6000400010=00100a100b6000400010001001a0000000000000007000100010009ffffffffffffffff00=380007000000000023000000a100b600040001000100a100b600040001000100070001000=10022003e012b1b360007000000000023000000a100b600040001000100a100b600040001=000100070001000100220035012b1b3600a10096000a01000000020000000000000cfec20=0000001000a00000000000e007e00070000000000220000000000000029000b706c616e65=20626c6164650000a0009700a10096000a01000000020000000000000cffdcff9d0001000=a00000000001c00630023000000290011426c6f636b20636c616d70656420746f2000002a=0e0562656e63680000a00097000c016200630001000affffffff008101c70022001800220=00000a100b600040001000100a100b600040001000100a0008c0071001a0067014f006f01=5a006b014f0067015a006f015a006b014f0007000100010022006b0161f00000a0008d000=7000000000023000000a100b600040001000100a100b600040001000100a0008c0071001a=003d013d004801460048013d003d013f004201460048013d000700010001002200110161d=d3500a0008d00ff}}{\plain\f21\fs24\cf1 \par }\pard\ql{\plain\f21\fs28\cf1 \par }\pard\ql{\plain\f21\fs28\cf1 \par }\pard\ql{\plain\f21\fs28\cf1 Rig for sharpening plane blades withdiamond=lapping compound on leather covered wheel.}}= --PART.BOUNDARY.0.508.emout19.mail.aol.com.840288402-- from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat Aug 17 13:18:11 1996 ; Sat, 17 Aug 1996 13:18:10 -0500 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 17 Aug 1996 14:17:28 -0400 Subject: Re: HEDDON BLACK BEAUTY In a message dated 96-08-17 00:06:58 EDT, you write: Hope that this is the way to do this, if not some one set me straight. Chuck Irvinetroutless in southern california Hi Chuck: One tiny comment. Averaging the three measurements is also what I do.However (isn't there always a "however"?) I factor in a judgement fudgewhenone of the measurements goes way-out from the other two. Probaly dosn'tmakemuch difference. Richard TyreeBluegill enhanced in Middle Tennessee from KilchsGray@aol.com Sat Aug 17 18:28:49 1996 ; Sat, 17 Aug 1996 18:28:48 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 17 Aug 1996 19:28:06 -0400 Subject: Re: 13" Spey Rod Ferrules In a message dated 96-08-16 00:23:44 EDT, you write: I can't speak for Mr. Marklund, but my own research and experienceswith(graphite) spey rods suggests that the problems are not a matter of size.Spey casting exerts a torsional stress on the rod, in addition to thestressof flexing in the casting plane. This causes problems which usually occurnear the first (lowest) ferrule, including loosening or twisting of the maleend in the female, loosening of the female ferrule from the rod, fractureofthe rod below the female ferrule, and delamination of the splines on canerods. Graphite speys are not immune to this. I have seen or heard ofseveral Sage speys that have come apart in casting or had the female(upper,tipover type) part rupture. Some speycasters tape the joints; mine is aGold-n-West with spigot type ferrules, and I have not had to resort tothis.I know that this smacks of heresy, but has anyone experimented withusing glass ferrules on a cane rod, either scratch-building a ferrule arounda mandrel or using a ferrule cut from a glass rod? --Roger from 76375.2274@CompuServe.COM Sun Aug 18 16:02:19 1996 QAA07787 for ; Sun, 18 Aug 199616:02:18 -0500 Subject: #17 Fudge Factor Hi Richard, Thank you for the comment about averaging the three measurements. I didthrowout any one measurement if it was out of line with the other two and triedto behonest about the average without being to judgemental, jezz, now I soundlike apolitician. I appreciate your input.Chuck Irvine from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Aug 18 17:18:35 1996 ; Sun, 18 Aug 1996 17:18:34 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 18 Aug 1996 18:17:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Code Writing In a message dated 96-08-17 00:30:24 EDT, you write: The revisions for Hexrod or Hex - Ninety Hex are: Hi Wayne:I hope you stay with Dos or Windows, at least for awhile. I like theconvenience of being able to use your program, and the enhancements youareplanning will make it even better. Not able to use the spread- sheetprogramsthat are popping up. Just do not yet know enough about the world ofcomputers to make the transition. + $0.02 Best Regards,R Tyree from jfoster@gte.net Sun Aug 18 20:32:59 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA14426 for; Sun, 18 Aug 1996 20:32:58 -0500 mail.gte.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP idUAA05944 for ; Sun, 18 Aug 1996 20:30:34-0500 Subject: Re: Code Writing Richard...tut..tutDon't let Wayne drag you back to slide rulers too (just a little humor) actually, the new stuff is easier to use.. It's all based on Wayneanyway, but i think the world is finally recognizing that humans see,and think,maybe, in 3d...color. the gui's are really more intuiative..maybe you should check out Bruces program or grab a copy of excell.. jwf from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Aug 18 21:34:28 1996 ; Sun, 18 Aug 1996 21:34:27 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 18 Aug 1996 22:33:45 -0400 Subject: Beta Victims - Apply Here someserious testing on it. Perhaps it might be best for me to send Jerry a copy while. The current release will save and load from disk and you can makevarible changes. The deflection thing is undergoing a couple of changes butIhope to have that done in a week or so. Wayne from neuneman@fh-ge.de Mon Aug 19 01:47:04 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA19947 for; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 01:47:00 -0500 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA22728; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 08:56:39 +0200 Organization: Fachhochschule Gelsenkirchen (Germany) Subject: Re: Code Writing Hi Wayne, Like you I sincerely hate Windows, but bad enough it is todays standard.(BTW, I also sincerely hate DOS!) For the future you will probably haveto look at Windows programming using Visual Basic. I tried it some timeago and it seems to be the simplest way of writing Windows programs. Greetings from a diehard Macintosh user. Frank from Lloyd.Cross@clorox.com Mon Aug 19 10:22:18 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA05190 for; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 10:22:16 -0500 mail.pilot.net with ESMTP id IAA13613 for (CEMS 5.01/1.37.109.14) id AA031528334; Mon, 19 Aug 199608:25:34 - 0700 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.02 Enterprise) id 21887440; Mon, 19 Aug 9608:24:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Beta Victims - Apply Here Wayne, I would be interested in the beta test. I have a P5 machine that runs DOS / Win 3.1. Should be upgrading to NT sometime this year. Thanks, L.D.Cross lloyd.cross@clorox.com ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Beta Victims - Apply HereAuthor: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet someserious testing on it. Perhaps it might be best for me to send Jerry a copy while. The current release will save and load from disk and you can make varible changes. The deflection thing is undergoing a couple of changes butI hope to have that done in a week or so. Wayne from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Mon Aug 19 11:06:00 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA07984 for; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 11:05:59 -0500 CDT Subject: Archives 101 Fred, the "relative 'new guy' " seez... :-) As a relative 'new guy' to the list who is here to learn, I reallyappreciate the up-date. Any other additional comments would beappreciated as well. Also, as an internet dummie, I still can't seem to understand how toaccess the ARCHIVES now that they are a part of the list. ;No problemwith the 'home-page' part -- just the things since about 8 July. Anyhelp in how to create access, files, etc would be very helpful andappreciated. Okay Fred, and anyone else interested, here's ARCHIVE 101... :-) Since the first part of July, 1996 all list messages are automaticallyarchived by the LISTPROC software, and are accessible through theLISTPROC address: LISTPROC@mail.wustl.edu via regular email messages. --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= There are just 3 commands that you need for accessing the archives...(the following is taken from the HELP file that is also available atthe above address) *** FOR ARCHIVES *** index [archive | path-to-archive] [/password] [-all]-------------------------------- --------------------Get a list of files in the selected archive, or the master archive if noarchive was specified. If an archive is private, you have to provide itspassword as well. search ] [/password] [-all] ------------------------------------------------------------ ----Search all files of the specified archive (and all of its subarchives if -allis specified) for lines that match the pattern. The pattern can be anegrep(1)- style regular expression with support for the followingadditionaloperators: '~' (negation), '|' and '&' (logical OR and AND), '' (groupregular expressions). The pattern may be enclosed in single or doublequotes.Note: . matches any character including new line. get [/password] [parts]----------------------------------------------------------Get the requested file from the specified archive. Files are usually split inparts locally, and in such a case you will receive the file in multiple emailmessages -- an 'index' request tells you how many parts the file has beensplitinto, and their sizes; if you need to obtain certain parts, specify them asoptional arguments. If an archive is private, you have to provide itspasswordas well. --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Okay, now for a few examples... To find out exactly what files are in the archives, send an email tothe above LISTPROC address; in the body of message put: INDEX RODMAKERS -ALL From: WUSTL ListProc Subject: INDEX rodmakers Archive: rodmakers (path: rodmakers) -- Files:log9607 (1 part, 373796 bytes) -- Setting Gauge - Was: Milward Binderlog9608 (1 part, 301322 bytes) -- Re: Color Preserver These are the files the are currently in the listproc RODMAKERS archives. Now, let's say you are looking for something specific. How about wedo a search of the archives for all occurances of the word: URACAgain, send mail to the above LISTPROC address; in the body of themessage put: search RODMAKERS -all "URAC" From: WUSTL ListProc Subject: SEARCH rodmakers "URAC" Matches for pattern 'URAC'... --- Archive: rodmakers (path: rodmakers) File log9607:goes. Yes I did use URAC. It did seem thick but this being my firsy rod, goes. Yes I did use URAC. It did seem thick but this being my firsy rod, File log9608:URAC 185URAC 185. This stuff's listed in the Garret Wade catalgue but notavailable from what I can gather URAC 185 is Urea Formaldehyde glue, possiblyMelamineURAC Nelson Paint Company(especially URAC). However, up to 10% more is allowable. Five to eightEspecially, if on wanted white URAC. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Mon Aug 19 14:58:34 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20265 for; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 14:58:26 -0500 0600 Subject: Finish Crazing To all, I have been attempting to fish a rod to death and have found some areas ofwear and failure.The wear is occuring as expected in the ferrules - am waxing them nowandexpect the ferrules to be changed in a couple of years.What does concern me more is the failure of the finish. The rod wasrewrapped 3 years ago when the finish failed last time. I've been watchingthe shaft close and am seeing failures on both the butt section and tipsections.The butt finish along the glue lines from 25" above the reel seat to theferrule shows chipping and cracking. Similarly along the last section ofthetips between the last guide and the tip top. The tips are nearly finish free. Am using a varathane plastic finish applied by dipping. The rod is cleanedprior to finishing with an art gum eraser [ to remove hand prints] followed The question is: Have any of you experienced the same kind of failure? Iread in Garrison's book where he refinished rods for other. Is this type offinish failure to be expected on cane. I realize that other finishes may notcrack, but has anyone had a failure of varathane finishes. Regards, Don from jfoster@gte.net Mon Aug 19 17:15:03 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA26451 for; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:14:59 -0500 mail.gte.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP idRAA09670 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:12:36-0500 Subject: Re: Archives 101 mike thanks for the update..is there a way for it to force feed me at each new file break.. I haveto do a lot of editing when i get a partial file. thanksjwf from jfoster@gte.net Mon Aug 19 18:00:59 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27862 for; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 18:00:58 -0500 mail.gte.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP idRAA19377 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:58:34-0500 Subject: Re: Beta Victims - Apply Here yes..Wayne just send it to me as an attatchment and i'll post itaccordingly.jwf from rmoon@dns.ida.net Mon Aug 19 18:35:27 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29257 for ;Mon, 19 Aug 1996 18:35:25 - 0500 Subject: Re: Finish Crazing Don: If you fish that rod 24 hours a day and seven days a week it is likely to suffer.Ralph from caneman@clnk.com Mon Aug 19 19:51:34 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA02081 for; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 19:51:31 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA190 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: Finish Crazing Don,I don't know about urethane finishes. I am a bit archaic (I like to call it traditional) and use only Spar Varnishes. I keep hearing people tell me how much better the urethanes are, but my 7'6" 4 wt has about got the guides worn off of it, but the finish is in great shape. Steve Jenkins (Charlie Jenkins son) told me that he uses urethane, but it is a high quality Pratt & Lambert Product (VarMor R10). If you don't mind looking around for it and paying $65 a gallon, you might give it a try. Bob Nunley from jfoster@gte.net Mon Aug 19 20:55:56 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA03502 for; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 20:55:54 -0500 mail.gte.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP idUAA22901 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 20:53:32-0500 Subject: Re: Finish Crazing BobI posted your bonefish taper but i think i got it wrong.. could youcheck it please jwf from gord@teleport.com Tue Aug 20 01:51:23 1996 BAA11338 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 01:51:06-0500 XAA13808 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 23:49:36 Subject: Re: Finish Crazing At 01:54 PM 8/19/96 -0600, you wrote:To all, I have been attempting to fish a rod to death and have found some areasofwear and failure.The wear is occuring as expected in the ferrules - am waxing them nowandexpect the ferrules to be changed in a couple of years.What does concern me more is the failure of the finish. The rod wasrewrapped 3 years ago when the finish failed last time. I've beenwatchingthe shaft close and am seeing failures on both the butt section and tipsections.The butt finish along the glue lines from 25" above the reel seat to theferrule shows chipping and cracking. Similarly along the last section ofthetips between the last guide and the tip top. The tips are nearly finishfree. Am using a varathane plastic finish applied by dipping. The rod is cleanedprior to finishing with an art gum eraser [ to remove hand prints]followed I've used Varathane almost exclusively for the 3 or 4 years I've beenbuilding and I've yet to have any failure of any sort. Perhaps I've nottested the finish as completely as you have. On the other hand it may bethe surface preparation. I've used mineral spirits as a degreaser. A friend of mine who repairs &refinishes woodwinds professionally uses a specialised degreaser prior tospraying laquer & recommends I use at least lighter fluid, which is morevolatile than mineral spirits. The other issue may be the time between coats, if you don't sand, or thesanding between coats, if you do. There's a window of time in which asecond coat will make a chemical, rather than mechanical, bond. Once thewindow of chemical bonding is passed the surface needs to be scuffed inorder for the next finish to adhere. Perhaps that might be a problem. Perhaps we'll have to see how my finishes look after I'm left waxingferrules! Cheers,Gordon from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Aug 20 09:16:31 1996 ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 09:16:29 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 09:39:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Code Writing In a message dated 96-08-18 21:36:52 EDT, you write: Richard...tut..tutDon't let Wayne drag you back to slide rulers too (just a little humor) actually, the new stuff is easier to use.. It's all based on Wayneanyway, but i think the world is finally recognizing that humans see,and think,maybe, in 3d...color. the gui's are really more intuiative..maybe you should check out Bruces program or grab a copy of excell.. jwf Hi Jerry:Don't get me wrong, am attempting to upgrade my three remaining braincellsas fast as possible. Just havn't made much progress...too much going onpresently tospend the time desired in the shop, much less seek out courses/classesetc.to match what I am seeing on this list as computer/I-net expertise. Actually, I drug out the ole log log slide rule awhile back to try tocalculate how tomake a one piece, two tip fly rod and couldn't do it (a little humor back atyou-very little I'm afraid). Seriously, hope to be off to the local computer center or maybe the localuniversity this winter for a course or two - plus gettin into many of theexcellent books avail. Regards,RTyree from JCZIMNY@dol.net Tue Aug 20 09:59:28 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA23149 for ;Tue, 20 Aug 1996 09:59:26 - 0500 Subject: Re: Finish Crazing Robert Nunley Jr. wrote: Don,I don't know about urethane finishes. I am a bit archaic (Ilike to call it traditional) and use only Spar Varnishes. I keephearing people tell me how much better the urethanes are, but my 7'6" 4wt has about got the guides worn off of it, but the finish is in greatshape. Steve Jenkins (Charlie Jenkins son) told me that he usesurethane, but it is a high quality Pratt & Lambert Product (VarMorR10). If you don't mind looking around for it and paying $65 a gallon,you might give it a try. Bob NunleyIt is not the type or resin in a varnish that makes it a "spar"or a "not spar". It is the proportion of drying oil in the mix that makes it more or less flexible. Thus one can have a polyurethane, a phenolic, or enven a alchyd "spar" or "regular" varnish.John Zimny from wishbone@headwaters.com Tue Aug 20 16:29:34 1996 ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:29:32 -0500 ns1.bellglobal.com (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA18705 for; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:26:03 -0400 (5.65/1.1.8.2/12Aug95-0226PM) Comments: Authenticated sender is Subject: test Priority: normal Is it real quiet again, or have I again been removed inadvertently from the list??Ian ScottWishbone Custom Rods wishbone@headwaters.comhttp://credit.headwaters.com/wishbone ********************************************************************************************* "The butterfly counts not months but moments,and has time enough." Rabindranath TagoreFireflies, 1928 from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Aug 20 18:22:29 1996 ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:22:26 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:21:44 -0400 Subject: Hexrod - Ninety Hex (the Jerry Karth Version) Quite often at work I'm called upon to help turn a pile of used (working??) parts back into a computer again. Our director of Computer Services,Jerry Karth, with his grand vision and cunning leadership has usuallythrownaway any and all documentation on the parts. Well you can imagine therest ofthe story. Today with a little help from our list GURU and SWELL GUY, MikeBiondo,who found that different OPEN statements are needed for GWBasic andQuickBasic. The Beta version of Hexrod - Ninety Hex is off and running (perhapswith a little staggering). But because I haven't wrote any documentationorperhaps found all the problems I'm dedicating the Beta version to JerryKarth, Mr. I Shot Myself In The Hard Drive With No Back -Up Himself.Lastly, because I am now sitting at my home computer with itsblistering1200 bps modem and because America OFF Line is only touched outside oftheGreater Metropolitan Casnovia calling circle, it will be tomorrow before Ican get it out for downloading. Any real problems, if found (gag gag) - will be corrected immediately -facelifting and add features will be about a month out. Comments andsuggestions as usual are always welcome. Wayne from jfoster@gte.net Tue Aug 20 19:34:23 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA17879 for; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:34:22 -0500 mail.gte.net (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP 19:31:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Code Writing Well richard If you are really contemplating a new machine.. check out the mac'stoo.. I garantee a 50% reduction in learning curve. That goes foreveryone.The gain is in the systems learning curve.. you realy don't have to careabout bats and exe's jwf from cbogart@ibm.net Tue Aug 20 20:20:53 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA19597 for; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 20:20:51 -0500 VAA16711; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:20:07 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Archives 101 Mike Ref old posting of mine - any progress in having a welcome wagonmessage when people subscribe?? It is usually a standard feature of mostlistservers. Soooo... Chris from caneman@clnk.com Tue Aug 20 20:58:11 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA20254 for; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 20:58:09 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA50 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: Finish Crazing JohnJohn Zimny wrote: Robert Nunley Jr. wrote: Don,I don't know about urethane finishes. I am a bit archaic (Ilike to call it traditional) and use only Spar Varnishes. I keephearing people tell me how much better the urethanes are, but my 7'6"4wt has about got the guides worn off of it, but the finish is in greatshape. Steve Jenkins (Charlie Jenkins son) told me that he usesurethane, but it is a high quality Pratt & Lambert Product (VarMorR10). If you don't mind looking around for it and paying $65 a gallon,you might give it a try. Bob NunleyIt is not the type or resin in a varnish that makes it a "spar"or a"not spar". It is the proportion of drying oil in the mix that makes itmore or less flexible. Thus one can have a polyurethane, a phenolic, orenven a alchyd "spar" or "regular" varnish.John Zimny John, I wasn't questioning whether he was using spar, I was questioning whether he had considered using varnish as opposed to urethane. I suppose all rodmakers use a spar "substance" of some sort, because of the drying characteristics, but most have drifted towards urethanes. I have stayed with the Varnish, because of the ease of polishing and repairing damage to the finishes. My point was that if a urethane finish (spar or otherwise) is scratched, that it is a lot tougher to buff it with 1200 grit, polish it out and make it look like it should. Of course, that is just my opinion and I could be wrong... Bob Nunley from JCZIMNY@dol.net Tue Aug 20 21:40:02 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA21249 for ;Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:40:00 - 0500 Subject: Re: Code Writing Jerry Foster wrote: Well richard If you are really contemplating a new machine.. check out the mac'stoo.. I garantee a 50% reduction in learning curve. That goes foreveryone.The gain is in the systems learning curve.. you realy don't have to careabout bats and exe's jwfGee Jerry. It's those little, insidious DLL's that always get me.John from JCZIMNY@dol.net Tue Aug 20 21:58:53 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA21783 for ;Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:58:51 - 0500 Subject: Re: Finish Crazing Robert Nunley Jr. wrote: JohnJohn Zimny wrote: Robert Nunley Jr. wrote: Don,I don't know about urethane finishes. I am a bit archaic (Ilike to call it traditional) and use only Spar Varnishes. I keephearing people tell me how much better the urethanes are, but my 7'6"4wt has about got the guides worn off of it, but the finish is in greatshape. Steve Jenkins (Charlie Jenkins son) told me that he usesurethane, but it is a high quality Pratt & Lambert Product (VarMorR10). If you don't mind looking around for it and paying $65 a gallon,you might give it a try. Bob NunleyIt is not the type or resin in a varnish that makes it a"spar" or a"not spar". It is the proportion of drying oil in the mix that makes itmore or less flexible. Thus one can have a polyurethane, a phenolic, orenven a alchyd "spar" or "regular" varnish.John Zimny John,I wasn't questioning whether he was using spar, I wasquestioning whether he had considered using varnish as opposed tourethane. I suppose all rodmakers use a spar "substance" of some sort,because of the drying characteristics, but most have drifted towardsurethanes. I have stayed with the Varnish, because of the ease ofpolishing and repairing damage to the finishes. My point was that if aurethane finish (spar or otherwise) is scratched, that it is a lottougher to buff it with 1200 grit, polish it out and make it look likeit should. Of course, that is just my opinion and I could be wrong... Bob NunleyYeh. You're right. Polyurethanes do not repair as easily as dothe alkyd and Phenolic varnishs. But, as you know the more oil in a mix the more flexible and softer the film. My point was that the film properties are less determined by the type of resin than the proportion or the resin to the drying oil in the mix. John from richjez@wwa.com Tue Aug 20 23:23:45 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA23985 for; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 23:23:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Code Writing John,While I covet your quad rod, I somewhat disagree with the MAC cult recomendation. Manily if you want a MAC to do something other than MACthought of, it will give you fits. That comes from selling computers for 9 monthein 95/96. Yes there are Mac people who can help, not necessarly MAC itself,but there is more help avaliable for PC/windows/Intell avaliable. The Mortolachip is better though. Just my .0.02$ worth.Rich jezioro *_________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ / /|| __________________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > > from TOM@sp1.hitchcock.org Wed Aug 21 05:44:42 1996 FAA01129 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 05:44:40-0500 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA22408 for; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 06:43:28 -0400 Wed, 21 Aug 96 6:17:13 EST5EDT EST5EDT Wed, 21 Aug 96 6:17:03 EST5EDT Subject: Re: Code WritingPriority: normal Jerry wrote: If you are really contemplating a new machine.. check out the mac'stoo.. I garantee a 50% reduction in learning curve. That goes foreveryone.The gain is in the systems learning curve.. you realy don't have to careabout bats and exe's Not to make this a PC vs. MAC thread but..... With Windows 95, bats are a thing of the past. Windows is looking more and more like a MAC every day. I'll give you MAC's are maybe a little more intuitive, but there are alot more PC's out there. With that comes ALOT more software for you to choose from. You see it here, I've seen requests for rod programs and stuff for MAC systems. So far most, (maybe all) the helper programs in the archives are for PC basedsystems. If you buy from a reputable dealer, your system will come already loaded and ready to run. I have a MAC at home and a PC at work. My kids can go thru either one with out much of a problem. Having programmed both platforms, I found the PC more friendly. Not necessarily eaisier mind you, but I found more people to help me. DISCLAIMER: I'm not saying Windows 95 is perfect, it has its share of problems, but it works well for me. Just my $0.02.Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson from oborge@aiss.uic.edu Wed Aug 21 06:55:07 1996 GAA02113 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 06:55:06-0500 06:58:56 -0500 Subject: Was: Code Writing, Now MAC whine. 4.0.837.3Encoding: 58 TEXT I now have a NT workstation at work and a windows 3.11 machine at home.My father was encouraged to by a MAC LC four years ago after having aDOS 1.0 IBM PC with two single sided 5.25 floppies and 64k of memory for12years. He just used it for Word processing (WordStar). I watched himstruggle with that MAC for months. It was not intuitive for him(or me).Those icon were just as confusing as cryptic three character commandswith arguments. He just upgraded to a power MAC. I helped him installthe extra software and hardware( scanner and printer). It was the sameprocess as a Windows workstation. We had the occasion to call the AppleHelp Desk about the printer driver. The person at the other end wasofficious and territorial. So to sum up this flame, intuitive is whatyou are used to, and most help desk people were just hired and probablyknow just a little more than you. I may be this testy because I just split my first bamboo culm and itwasn't as easy(intuitive) as it looks in Wayne's Video(did I click onthe wrong ICON Wayne?). The pieces are a little BIGGER than I wanted andthe splits do not always trace a line through the imaginary center ofthe culm. This must be my first sacrificial culm. ----------From: Thomas W. Ausfeld[SMTP:TOM@sp1.hitchcock.org]Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 1996 1:16 AM Subject: Re: Code Writing Jerry wrote: If you are really contemplating a new machine.. check out the mac'stoo.. I garantee a 50% reduction in learning curve. That goes foreveryone.The gain is in the systems learning curve.. you realy don't have to careabout bats and exe's Not to make this a PC vs. MAC thread but..... With Windows 95, bats are a thing of the past. Windows is looking more and more like a MAC every day. I'll give you MAC's are maybe a little more intuitive, but there are alot more PC's out there. With that comes ALOT more software for you to choose from. You see it here, I've seen requests for rod programs and stuff for MAC systems. So far most, (maybe all) the helper programs in the archives are for PC basedsystems. If you buy from a reputable dealer, your system will come already loaded and ready to run. I have a MAC at home and a PC at work. My kids can go thru either one with out much of a problem. Having programmed both platforms, I found the PC more friendly. Not necessarily eaisier mind you, but I found more people to help me. DISCLAIMER: I'm not saying Windows 95 is perfect, it has its share of problems, but it works well for me. Just my $0.02.Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson from khube@benmeadows.com Wed Aug 21 07:05:11 1996 HAA02405 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 07:05:10-0500 ESMTP id IAA29702 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 199608:04:28 -0400 (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA02495 for; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 08:04:25 - 0400 Two questions : 1. Does anyone have the guide spacings for the "Banty" 4' 4" rod that wasdescibed in the list a few weeks back ? 2. Can anyone give me some basics on the art & science flaming cane ? Thanks Karl Hube from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Wed Aug 21 07:43:41 1996 ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 07:43:40 -0500 (5.x/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Re: Was: Code Writing, Now MAC vs MS I wasn't going to get into this but.. Like many issues in our lives (i.e. politics, religion), I find that with all the discussion, people aren't going to change their viewsor beliefs about a particular system. DOS guys will remain DOS guysand MAC guys will remain MAC guys. There are success and horror storieson each side. Which is better? I don't know. I think it's like buying a right- or left-handed hammer. It's a tool thatdepends on the skill of the user. All this overtime work must have fried my brain. I keep thinking aboutthe 8 ft. 6 wt. butt section laying in the planing form at the house. -Jerry Ballard (A UNIX fanatic)ballard@zen.wes.army.mil from bconner@cybercom.net Wed Aug 21 09:15:12 1996 ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 09:15:11 -0500 KAA19572 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:14:25-0400 Subject: RE: Flaming cane 2. Can anyone give me some basics on the art & science flaming cane ? Thanks Karl Hube Well Karl, I'd say the ususal method of writing lots of messages to thelist (and in private email) to the culm would be in order. First,determine how old the culm is. If it is not too close to your own age, youcan either tell it it is young and doesn't know squat or you can tell it itis old and really out of touch. The next thing to do is to cloud the issue This one is always sure to get it going. Take a firm, yet contradictorystand on the humidity re-absorbtion and varnish sealing subjects. Whateverthe culm says, you think different. The idea is to make the culm lose itstemper and start to say things without thinking. THEN you can attack itssexuality. This is important to do, even though you would think attackingsomething with a shaft like that would be fruitless, bamboo is veryinsecure when you start talking about "inter-nodal length" and such. Youmay even start to see some splitting at this point. Then start in on thepower fiber depth and node sweep. By this time, the cane will be wellflamed and it won't have much fight left in it. Lashing it with a few wellchosen flames will give a nice tigerstripe pattern, while keeping up acontinual nattering over a period of days will give an even brown tone. Hope this helps! :') Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from FFer4trout@aol.com Wed Aug 21 10:30:47 1996 ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:30:46 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:30:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Was: Code Writing, Now MAC vs MS and now cane growing too. Gee, I was going to ask for a CP/M 2.2 version of Hexrod, but now I'm tooembarassed. Just kidding! I've been forced over to Win 95. I do have an old version of Hexrod that came with "Handcrafting BambooFlyRods" is this version way out of date? Should I wait for the next version. So far, I've developed more of an interest in restoring old rods thanplaningmy fingers off. (Might be self-preservation?) After I develop better (muchbetter) skills I'd like to try to build rod or two from scratch. Does anyone know if local grown (Los Angeles area) bamboo would workforbuilding a rod? It's just growing wild in some local river beds and is 10' -15'+ tall. Free for the taking. CA is spending money to get rid of it.Imported originally from? How would you prep it? Darryl H. have you everlooked into this? Also, does anyone know of any tackle shows or rod builder swap meetsthat hasa good selection of people selling old rod parts? I've found gettingmatchingferrules and guides to be the hardest part of restorations. Any goodsourcesof old parts? I can get the new NS ferrules and lots of new guides but theydon't match the originals. Thanks, Don Burns PS - I know about Classic Angler in CO. from hadn@chevron.com Wed Aug 21 11:07:14 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA12900 for; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:07:11 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Wed, 21 Aug 1996 09:06:25 -0700 Wed, 21 Aug 1996 09:06:25 -0700 Subject: RE: Was: Code Writing, Now MAC vs MS and now cane growing too. 4.0.838.14Encoding: 25 TEXT Does anyone know if local grown (Los Angeles area) bamboo would workforbuilding a rod? It's just growing wild in some local river beds and is10' -15'+ tall. Free for the taking. CA is spending money to get rid of it.Imported originally from? How would you prep it? Darryl H. have youeverlooked into this? No I haven't. First I heard of this. It might be worth looking into. Iwould try and find the largest diameter plants, cut it, and seehow thick the power fibers are. I also wouldn't go through too much trouble in obtaining thisbamboo though. Look at the price of a culm from Demerest. only $40 each. I can get two sometimes three rods out of a culm.Works out to be only $20 worth of bamboo in each rod. Thebamboo ends up being one of the cheapest components ofa rod. Darryl Hayashida from rfairfie@cisco.com Wed Aug 21 11:51:38 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA15075 for ;Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:51:35 - 0500 JAA18562 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 09:50:47 - 0700 Subject: RE: Was: Code Writing, Now MAC vs MS and now cane growing too. Darryl, being new to this activity, who/what is Demerest? Do they have acatalog? What is their address/phone number? Thanks,Roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Aug 21 09:12:51 1996Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 09:07:01 -0700 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: "Hayashida, Darryl N. (hadn)" Subject: RE: Was: Code Writing, Now MAC vs MS and now cane growingtoo.X- Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version4.0.838.14X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.1 -- ListProcessor by CRENContent-Length: 880 Does anyone know if local grown (Los Angeles area) bamboo would workforbuilding a rod? It's just growing wild in some local river beds and is10' -15'+ tall. Free for the taking. CA is spending money to get rid of it.Imported originally from? How would you prep it? Darryl H. have youeverlooked into this? No I haven't. First I heard of this. It might be worth looking into. Iwould try and find the largest diameter plants, cut it, and seehow thick the power fibers are. I also wouldn't go through too much trouble in obtaining thisbamboo though. Look at the price of a culm from Demerest. only $40 each. I can get two sometimes three rods out of a culm.Works out to be only $20 worth of bamboo in each rod. Thebamboo ends up being one of the cheapest components ofa rod. Darryl Hayashida from khube@benmeadows.com Wed Aug 21 11:59:41 1996 LAA15532 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:59:40-0500 MAA17127 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:58:54 (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA28019 for; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:58:51 - 0400 Subject: RE: Flaming cane 2. Can anyone give me some basics on the art & science flaming cane ? Thanks Karl Hube Well Karl, I'd say the ususal method of writing lots of messages to thelist (and in private email) to the culm would be in order. First,determine how old the culm is. If it is not too close to your own age, youcan either tell it it is young and doesn't know squat or you can tell it itis old and really out of touch. The next thing to do is to cloud the issue computer.This one is always sure to get it going. Take a firm, yet contradictory Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net Just couldn't resist, could you ??? KH********************************* F. Karl Hube, PresidentBen Meadows Company, Inc. Atlanta, Georgia USA khube@benmeadows.com********************************* from oborge@aiss.uic.edu Wed Aug 21 12:59:12 1996 MAA18266 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:59:11-0500 13:02:58 -0500 Subject: RE: Flaming cane 4.0.837.3Encoding: 58 TEXT Damn............ Bruce you should PATENT that. ----------From: bconner@cybercom.net[SMTP:bconner@cybercom.net]Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 1996 9:14 AM Subject: RE: Flaming cane 2. Can anyone give me some basics on the art & science flaming cane ? Thanks Karl Hube Well Karl, I'd say the ususal method of writing lots of messages tothelist (and in private email) to the culm would be in order. First,determine how old the culm is. If it is not too close to your own age,youcan either tell it it is young and doesn't know squat or you can tellit itis old and really out of touch. The next thing to do is to cloud theissue computer.This one is always sure to get it going. Take a firm, yetcontradictorystand on the humidity re-absorbtion and varnish sealing subjects. Whateverthe culm says, you think different. The idea is to make the culm loseitstemper and start to say things without thinking. THEN you can attackitssexuality. This is important to do, even though you would thinkattackingsomething with a shaft like that would be fruitless, bamboo is veryinsecure when you start talking about "inter-nodal length" and such. Youmay even start to see some splitting at this point. Then start in onthepower fiber depth and node sweep. By this time, the cane will be wellflamed and it won't have much fight left in it. Lashing it with a fewwellchosen flames will give a nice tigerstripe pattern, while keeping up acontinual nattering over a period of days will give an even brown tone. Hope this helps! :') Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from khube@benmeadows.com Wed Aug 21 13:04:52 1996 NAA18536 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:04:49-0500 ESMTP id OAA29614 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 199614:04:06 -0400 (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA16794 for; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 14:04:02 - 0400 Subject: Oven Stuff.....Chapter 2 About two weeks ago, I reported problems getting my heat-gun oven up tothe350-deg target level. Mike "Hot Air" Biondo urged more work on leaks thatwould let in outside air. In addition, the outside skin is about 6.5 sq ftof surface for convection to drain off the heat. So............all I did was use R-11 household insulation to cover the skinand to block off the joint gaps around the top and bottom of the oven.Holeswere punched in the insulation for the thermometer probe to get throughthethree ports drilled in the skin (top, center, bottom). It was a hot (92-deg)day last Saturday, so I left the paper on the insulation to keep fromgetting into the fiberglass........great stuff when you are sticky !! I putthe whole thing out in the backyard and fired it up. I figured no harm wouldbe done even if the paper caught fire....since the garden hose was handy.The result............my 210-deg wimp is now a 400-deg monster !! Same gun,same run time....only the insulation was added. The outside of the paperwaswarm to the touch but not hot. This will be replaced by heavy aluminumfoil possible. The differential from top to bottm was 8 to 10 deg. Swapping rodends half way through the run should help take this into account. Thanks for the help, all. Karl Hube from jfoster@gte.net Wed Aug 21 17:46:17 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA01523 for; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:46:14 -0500 mail.gte.net (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP 17:43:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Code Writing shame shame rich..your god owns the world so why the shoot at mac's more trouble more helpjwf from jfoster@gte.net Wed Aug 21 17:55:40 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA01910 for; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:55:38 -0500 mail.gte.net (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP 17:53:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Flaming cane Bruce Thanks, as always, for lending a note of sanityjwf--all flamed out from flyh2o@mtsi.com Thu Aug 22 05:21:41 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA14017 for; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 05:21:39 -0500 Subject: RE: Flaming cane At 10:14 AM 8/21/96 -0400, you wrote: 2. Can anyone give me some basics on the art & science flaming cane ? Thanks Karl Hube Well Karl, I'd say the ususal method of writing lots of messages to thelist (and in private email) to the culm would be in order. First,determine how old the culm is. If it is not too close to your own age, youcan either tell it it is young and doesn't know squat or you can tell it itis old and really out of touch. The next thing to do is to cloud the issue computer.This one is always sure to get it going. Take a firm, yet contradictorystand on the humidity re-absorbtion and varnish sealing subjects. Whateverthe culm says, you think different. The idea is to make the culm lose itstemper and start to say things without thinking. THEN you can attack itssexuality. This is important to do, even though you would think attackingsomething with a shaft like that would be fruitless, bamboo is veryinsecure when you start talking about "inter-nodal length" and such. Youmay even start to see some splitting at this point. Then start in on thepower fiber depth and node sweep. By this time, the cane will be wellflamed and it won't have much fight left in it. Lashing it with a few wellchosen flames will give a nice tigerstripe pattern, while keeping up acontinual nattering over a period of days will give an even brown tone. Hope this helps! :') Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net The most clear and concise description of flaming it has been my pleasuretoread.Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state.:Tom McGuane from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Aug 22 05:33:26 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA15266 for; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 05:33:24 -0500 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA004280756; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 16:39:16 -0700 Subject: Phillipson ferrules Does anyone out there have a scrap pile that might include a set of mid to tip section ferrules for a Phillipson Paragon. I don't think the model name matters. The Phillipson ferrules are nickle silver, have a shorter length and resemble the Wright and McGill style. Anyway, if anyone might have a set of one each or a set of one female and two male ferrules please respond. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from cbogart@ibm.net Thu Aug 22 05:48:03 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA16415 for; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 05:48:01 -0500 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id VAA18017; Wed, 21 Aug1996 21:28:51 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Code Writing Not to continue the OS wars - try a real OS - OS/2 Warp. Chris from cbogart@ibm.net Thu Aug 22 05:48:05 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA16419 for; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 05:48:03 -0500 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id VAA17916; Wed, 21 Aug1996 21:26:37 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: RE: Flaming cane Karl Flaming is real basic - - more BTU's and bigger flame the better. Start from one end and work towards the other - - don't backtrack. Keepconsistantamount of charing. Other than that - - don't catch the culm on fire. Chris from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Aug 22 06:30:51 1996 ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 06:30:49 -0500 Rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 07:30:07 -0400 Subject: Burnt Marshmellow Effect Over the years there have developed several types of dark toning - bothchemical and 'burnt'. The thomas Browntone is a chemical darking - theYoungs- Gillums &others are burnt toning. in each there are many styles andtonesthat can be achieved.Having never chemically toned a rod I will cover just burnt toning. Thetorches used break down to two types 'flat' heat and 'pointed 'heat. thepointed heat torch is the type that screws on the 14 oz bottles and burnswith (1) distinct point. The flat heat torches are either multi pointed or ofthe turbo design where the burning of fuel is in a circular pattern as itleaves the nozzle. The self igniter torches at $45 - $50 dollars are fourtipped. More commercial torches for plumbers are of the turbo design andhavedifferent size (btu wise) heads but they run $125.The pointed tipped torch yields a sharply contrasted tiger stripepattern - the flat tipped torch yields a more softly mottled look - Eachcanbe darker or lighter - determined by torch output and speed.The bigger (btu wise) the torch the better. Think of cooking a steak ona grill with a low heat the steak cooks through before darkening - butwithhigh heat the steak seers on the outside and doesn't affect the inside - inthe case of a bamboo culm the lignun and power fibers can becomecarbonizedis 'cooked' too long.If you want dark with light nodes - leave the filing of the nodes untilafter darkeniing - If you want to hide the nodes file the first.I darken until you would call it the burnt marshmellow - rememberthatthe enamel insulates and reduces the darkening at the upper power fibers.Always test the torch and pattern of torch movement first and do itoutside. from a previous response I get the feeling that some are darkeningbamboo or doing something else that emits fumes locked in a closet - butitdid make the day brighter. Wayne ps Bruce - Here it's called the Casnovia Crippler - my neighbor grows ithidden along side the legal corn crop from oborge@aiss.uic.edu Thu Aug 22 07:29:57 1996 HAA01661 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 07:29:56-0500 07:33:43 -0500 Subject: RE: Phillipson ferrules 4.0.837.3Encoding: 30 TEXT Chris,You might give Bob's Tackle shop in Denver Co. a call.there was a post for rodbuilding equipment fore sale here several monthagoI called and talked to Betty Malara who is the owner. included in the equipment for sale was a large quantity of (Ithink)Phillipson ferrules .The extruded type.The shop number is 303/455-7926 ----------From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL[SMTP:mcdowellc@lanecc.edu]Sent: Thursday, August 22, 1996 12:28 AM Subject: Phillipson ferrules Does anyone out there have a scrap pile that might include a set of midto tip section ferrules for a Phillipson Paragon. I don't think the model name matters. The Phillipson ferrules are nickle silver, have ashorter length and resemble the Wright and McGill style. Anyway, if anyonemight have a set of one each or a set of one female and two male ferrulesplease respond. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from khube@benmeadows.com Thu Aug 22 07:35:40 1996 HAA01968 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 07:35:39-0500 IAA07491 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:34:56 (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA15398 for; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:34:53 - 0400 Subject: RE: Flaming cane Chris says====> Karl Flaming is real basic - - more BTU's and bigger flame the better. Start from one end and work towards the other - - don't backtrack. Keepconsistantamount of charing. Other than that - - don't catch the culm on fire. Chris======================================================================== Chris....... Is this in place of or in addition to conventional heat treating ?? is themnor could information. Any current information on their location or werethey bought out, etc....?? Karl from moucheux@sympatico.ca Thu Aug 22 10:05:47 1996 ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:05:43 -0500 smtp1.sympatico.ca (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA28972 for; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 11:03:50 -0400 Organization: Le Moucheux Enr. Subject: Re: Flaming cane Michael Leitheiser wrote: At 10:14 AM 8/21/96 -0400, you wrote: 2. Can anyone give me some basics on the art & science flaming cane ? Thanks Karl Hube Well Karl, I'd say the ususal method of writing lots of messages to thelist (and in private email) to the culm would be in order. First,determine how old the culm is. If it is not too close to your own age,youcan either tell it it is young and doesn't know squat or you can tell it itis old and really out of touch. The next thing to do is to cloud the issue computer.This one is always sure to get it going. Take a firm, yet contradictorystand on the humidity re-absorbtion and varnish sealing subjects. Whateverthe culm says, you think different. The idea is to make the culm loseitstemper and start to say things without thinking. THEN you can attackitssexuality. This is important to do, even though you would thinkattackingsomething with a shaft like that would be fruitless, bamboo is veryinsecure when you start talking about "inter-nodal length" and such. Youmay even start to see some splitting at this point. Then start in on thepower fiber depth and node sweep. By this time, the cane will be wellflamed and it won't have much fight left in it. Lashing it with a fewwellchosen flames will give a nice tigerstripe pattern, while keeping up acontinual nattering over a period of days will give an even brown tone. Hope this helps! :') Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net The most clear and concise description of flaming it has been mypleasure toread.Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state.:Tom McGuane I have to agree with Mike on the clarity of thepaper.Mike in Montreal from FFer4trout@aol.com Thu Aug 22 10:14:15 1996 ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:14:12 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 11:13:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Phillipson ferrules In a message dated 96-08-22 08:12:05 EDT, you write: Mac, Sorry I can't help you. But if you do happen to find a source of "stuff"please post it. I've been looking for ferrules also. Don Burns from mrj@seanet.com Thu Aug 22 11:49:36 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA21157 for; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 11:49:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Flaming cane Another Question:Regardingthe flaming, I have flamed a full culm pre-split with noproblems. WhatI want to know is can you flame a rod after you have glued up the blank? Itriedthis on a scrap and was not succesfull. I used a hand held propane torchand I couldn't keep from singing the edges. I was trying to copy a mottledflamed rod that I had seen at a sports show. The colors intrigued me and I figured thatit had to be done after the cane was split and probably after the rod wasglued up.Was I wrong maybe? Note: you better be careful with your answer here because thanks to thevery detailed instructions by Bruce, I now know how to flame someone(G). In message writes:Karl Flaming is real basic - - more BTU's and bigger flame the better. Start from one end and work towards the other - - don't backtrack. Keep consistantamount of charing. Other than that - - don't catch the culm on fire. Chris Martin Jensen "Fishing tackle: This is an extreme but useful maneuver for preventing afellow conclaver angler fromreaching the best fishing hole before you do. - McManis Daffynitions " from hadn@chevron.com Thu Aug 22 12:11:56 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA22291 for; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:11:54 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:11:09 -0700 Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:11:09 -0700 Subject: RE: Flaming cane 4.0.838.14Encoding: 29 TEXT Another Question:Regardingthe flaming, I have flamed a full culm pre-split with noproblems. WhatI want to know is can you flame a rod after you have glued up theblank? I triedthis on a scrap and was not succesfull. I used a hand held propanetorch and I couldn't keep from singing the edges. I was trying to copy a mottledflamed rod that I had seen at a sports show. The colors intrigued me and I figuredthat it had to be done after the cane was split and probably after the rod wasglued up.Was I wrong maybe? Note: you better be careful with your answer here because thanks tothe very detailed instructions by Bruce, I now know how to flame someone(G). Every time I flame bamboo, the edges char and curl a little bit.I would imagine that the corners of the blank would do the same thing.Not even getting into what the heat would do to the glue. Also, Ishudderto think about flaming the tip. Darryl Hayashida from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Thu Aug 22 16:31:30 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA17744 for; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 16:31:27 -0500 Subject: Downloading Latest Hexrod Is anyone having problems setting up the latest version of Hexrod ontheirhard drive? I down load the program and unzip it but it appears tohave a corrupt file and won't full unzip. Bob Bery from rwbaus@avana.net Thu Aug 22 18:31:11 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29196 for; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 18:31:07 -0500 (5.65/1.1.8.2/30Apr96-1201PM) Subject: Re: Code Writing In , on 08/21/96 at 09:32PM,"Chris Bogart" said: Not to continue the OS wars - try a real OS - OS/2 Warp. Chris I just assumed every one was using those other OS's for the challange. OS/2 is the best OS for the desktop! -----------------------------------------------------------Wed Aug 21 1996 12:52 AMrwbaus@avana.net@ (Robert W. Bausum Jr.)Robert W. Bausum Jr.Head FishCreel Consulting, Inc.*_________________________________)/ / \ || \ || > ----------------------------------------------------------- from jfoster@gte.net Thu Aug 22 18:37:22 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29602 for; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 18:37:21 -0500 mail.gte.net (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP 18:34:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Downloading Latest Hexrod BobWhere are you getting the latest version? jwf from cbogart@ibm.net Thu Aug 22 18:38:49 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29748 for; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 18:38:48 -0500 TAA15921; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 19:37:59 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: RE: Flaming cane Karl Search and ye shall find . . . I did a web search and found the Steinel homepage: Try URL http://www.thomasregister.com:800/steinelamerica/ Have toll free nr 1-800-910-7673. Yes they seemed to have moved to Bloomington MN I have the HL2002emodeltake a look at their homepage and go from there second - You heat treat after flaming - still. Chris from cbogart@ibm.net Thu Aug 22 18:42:47 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA00153 for; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 18:42:46 -0500 TAA16030; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 19:41:56 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: RE: Flaming cane Karl After looking at the current models of heat guns the HG 3000 SLEmostclosely resembles the one I have. Chris from moucheux@sympatico.ca Thu Aug 22 18:57:46 1996 ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 18:57:44 -0500 smtp1.sympatico.ca (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA10260 for; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 19:55:54 -0400 Organization: Le Moucheux Enr. Subject: Re: Downloading Latest Hexrod bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us wrote: Is anyone having problems setting up the latest version of Hexrod ontheirhard drive? I down load the program and unzip it but it appears to have acorrupt file and won't full unzip. Bob Bery Hi,can someone give instruction on how to get a copy of the HEXROD program?ThanksMikehtt://www.titan.qc.ca/moucheux from khube@benmeadows.com Fri Aug 23 09:01:56 1996 JAA01907 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:01:53-0500 KAA15943 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 10:01:10 (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA09975 for; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 10:01:06 - 0400 Subject: RE: Flaming cane Chris said=======> Karl Search and ye shall find . . . I did a web search and found the Steinel homepage: Try URL http://www.thomasregister.com:800/steinelamerica/ Have toll free nr 1-800-910-7673. Yes they seemed to have moved to Bloomington MN I have theHL2002e modeltake a look at their homepage and go from there second - You heat treat after flaming - still. Chris========================================================================== Chris..............Thanks. I should have thought about the on-line versionof the Thomas Register as we have found some pretty obscure productsthat way. Still have not recovered from Bruce Conners' explanation on flaming, butwill lay in wait to pounce when possible !! I owe him one !! Is there anyevidence that the flame process penetrates enough to be more than be acosmetic issue ? I have a couple of samples of scrap cane that I "put tothetorch" and then cut through to look at the cross section. The penetrationlooks significant. This may be the result of moving too slow with thetorchas opposed to Wayne's steak seering analogy.........ie, HOT flame and movingalong more quickly. Looks tough to control under any circumstances. All help appreciated. Karl HubeMarietta, Georgia from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Aug 23 11:21:44 1996 ; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 11:21:43 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:20:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Flaming cane Karl - from down your way attend - Eric Pepper. Also I know of two other bamboorodmakers - Jay Hoekwater & Doug Hall. Are you Familiar with any of thesenames???If you are looking to do flaming that eliminates heat treating - Youwould have to take test strips and weighing each after different darkeningspeed passes and intensities - then check the upper layer of fiber for anycharing. I know of some that have tried to do darkening to the degree that Ido with a single flame torch and when they were done the bamboo had beencarbonized and useless. A recommendation might be to determine the toneandcharacter that you are looking for than test for carbonizing and then stickwith that method. A issue that hasn't been covered much is that of thesigniture of each of the different makers. Even with the name removedcertainrod are still recognized because of that signiture. Pick a darkening -threadcolor - reelseat design and tone - and then stay with this which willbecomeyour signiture.This is where group gatherings and the bigger shows come into play -because of the variety of rods that are available for examination at theseevents a maker can see a variety of thoughts and different types ofasthenticbalance. Wayne Ps If you do know Eric - I'm sorry from caneman@clnk.com Fri Aug 23 12:04:58 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA19361 for; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:04:52 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA215 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: Flaming cane Karl Hube wrote: Chris said=======>second - You heat treat after flaming - still. Chris========================================================================> Chris...Is there any evidence that the flame process penetrates enough to be more than be a cosmetic issue ? I have a couple of samples of scrap cane that I "put to the torch" and then cut through to look at the cross section. The penetration looks significant. This may be the result of moving too slow with the torch as opposed to Wayne's steak seering analogy.........ie, HOT flame and moving along more quickly. Looks tough to control under any circumstances.All help appreciated.Karl Hube Karl, Chris:I use a "homemade" ring burner to flame my culms, however, the same tapers flamed at the same heats and speeds seemed to haveanywhere from slight to DRASTIC differences in casting characteristics. Therefore, I resigned myself to flame for cosmetics, get to within a few passes of my final dimensions, then bind and heat treat in my oven. This gives me a much more consistent action within each taper. Bob Nunley from cbogart@ibm.net Fri Aug 23 17:56:14 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA21443 for; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 17:56:12 -0500 SAA14164; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:55:21 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: RE: Flaming cane Karl You just want to sear the culm - just like a good steak. Chris from cbogart@ibm.net Fri Aug 23 18:00:33 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA21777 for; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:00:32 -0500 SAA14427; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:59:48 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Flaming cane Bob I agree with you that flaming for cosmetic reasons (does it reallyhide the zits?) and then temper under controled conditions. Chris from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Aug 23 19:40:22 1996 ; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 19:40:20 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 20:29:40 -0400 Subject: The first clue ! When entering file names - disk drives use only base name or letter -the program adds extensions and colons as needed. For use with a harddrive'C' you must use a sub - directory - here again just a name no addons. Thethought was that no one saves just to the root directory any more with thesize of the current hard drives. Chris this should solve the file errorproblem - I may write around these but it won't be for awhile. downloading - but - I can send it directly to those that send me a netaddresss. Currently I have provided the newest version in an EXE runnableunder dos. The file out arrangement is listed below. Which brings upanotherissue for comment. The remainder of the revisions and additions forHexrodare going to be derived with the information that can be stored with thisfile structure. The extension attached to the filename is TPR DESI$ - rod design (ie 7' 6" #4 - 45' 2 pc)AL - action lengthLW - line weightLL - line lengthLF - line fishedTF - tip factorMEM$ - comments ( ie this rod is a madified .......)CHO - indicates whether derived from dimensions or stressesPIE - number of pieces to the rod FW1 - ferrule weight of first ferrule (no entry if a 1 piece)FL! - ferrule length of the first ferrule (no entry if a 1 piece) FW2FL2 FW3FL3 above are only present if needednow a loop for I = 1 to al TM(I) - tip momentLM(I) - line momentVM(I) - varnish momentFM(I) - ferrule momentBW(I) - bamboo weightCG(I) - center of gravitiesBM(I) - bamboo momentFB(I) - stress valueDM(I) - dimensions next I Wayne from jfoster@gte.net Fri Aug 23 20:15:17 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA03061 for; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 20:15:16 -0500 mail.gte.net (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP 20:12:55 -0500 Subject: Re: The first clue ! Wayne I havn't received a copy yet..Isn't there a local internet provider inCasnovia yet.. you're spending a lot of extra money on aol..unless youuse the local services a lot.. I think it eats your attatchments jwf from jfoster@gte.net Fri Aug 23 21:04:56 1996 Subject: Re: Reciculating tempering ovens Did anyone ever get a copy of Don Anderson's oven sketch jwf from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Aug 23 23:27:08 1996 Subject: Re: Reciculating tempering ovens Jerry, I hope I didn't miss you on my past mailing. Send me your address and I'llmail you a copy. Won't get it done for about 3 weeks. Off to stretch some lips. Don At 21:07 23/08/96 -0600, you wrote:Did anyone ever get a copy of Don Anderson's oven sketch jwf from jfoster@gte.net Sat Aug 24 16:07:08 1996 Subject: Re: The first clue ! Hexrod 96, Wayne's newest release is now posted in the archives underother stuff Thank you Chris. Received your mail and the attatchement was fine.. jwf from hihoslvr@teleport.com Sat Aug 24 17:14:49 1996 Subject: Re: The first clue ! When entering file names - disk drives use only base name or letter -the program adds extensions and colons as needed. For use with a hard drive'C' you must use a sub - directory - here again just a name no addons. Thethought was that no one saves just to the root directory any more with thesize of the current hard drives. Chris this should solve the file errorproblem - I may write around these but it won't be for awhile. downloading - but - I can send it directly to those that send me a netaddresss. Currently I have provided the newest version in an EXE runnableunder dos. The file out arrangement is listed below. Which brings up anotherissue for comment. The remainder of the revisions and additions for Hexrodare going to be derived with the information that can be stored with thisfile structure. The extension attached to the filename is TPR DESI$ - rod design (ie 7' 6" #4 - 45' 2 pc)AL - action lengthLW - line weightLL - line lengthLF - line fishedTF - tip factorMEM$ - comments ( ie this rod is a madified .......)CHO - indicates whether derived from dimensions or stressesPIE - number of pieces to the rod FW1 - ferrule weight of first ferrule (no entry if a 1 piece)FL! - ferrule length of the first ferrule (no entry if a 1 piece) FW2FL2 FW3FL3 above are only present if needednow a loop for I = 1 to al TM(I) - tip momentLM(I) - line momentVM(I) - varnish momentFM(I) - ferrule momentBW(I) - bamboo weightCG(I) - center of gravitiesBM(I) - bamboo momentFB(I) - stress valueDM(I) - dimensions next I Wayne Wayne, Ron from bootstrap@earthlink.net Sat Aug 24 18:23:22 1996 Subject: Frank in Colorado Hi. I'd like to resubscribe. I've been down a while and before I left, I again. Frank Armbruster Bootstrap@earthlink.net from RckyMtKane@aol.com Sun Aug 25 00:19:12 1996 Subject: Re: The first clue ! Wayne:Please send me the new version of hexrod. My name is Joe E. Arguelloand the first thing I want to say is thanks for writing the book, Greatstuff. I have been building rods for about five years and when I started yourbook was of great help to me, I still refer to it quite often. I don't thinkenough thanks will ever come your way. ThanksagainJoe PS here's my address rckymtkane@aol.com from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Sun Aug 25 13:27:19 1996 (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA226207512; Sun, 25 Aug 1996 11:25:12 -0700 Organization: r-5113 Subject: help I have been trying to do a search in the archives but being basicalycomputor ignorant I'm not sure what words to type in and where to typeit in at. I sent a e-mail addressed to LISTPROC@mail.wustl.edu and in thebody of the message I typed in (search rodmakers - all nodeless) andreceived a return mail host unknown....550 host unknown. If I'm supposedto send my password I don't know what screen to get to and what and whereto type in commands. I have the archives 101 but it assumes thatthe person doing it is more computor literate than I seem to be. Anyassisstance would be more than greatly appreceiated. Patrick from caneman@clnk.com Sun Aug 25 17:49:01 1996 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA169 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: Flaming cane Chris Bogart wrote: Bob I agree with you that flaming for cosmetic reasons (does it reallyhide the zits?) and then temper under controled conditions. ChrisChris,No, it doesn't hide the zits... I'm just partial to the looks ofa burnt stick. I use my scratched and stained cane for experiments andshop demo rods. Anything that I flame would look, cosmetically, just asgood as a natural. FLAME FOR SHOW AND TEMPER FOR GO!!!Bob from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Mon Aug 26 09:09:53 1996 Subject: Re: help Patrick - computer challenged - Coffey seez... I have been trying to do a search in the archives but being basicalycomputer ignorant I'm not sure what words to type in and where to typeit in at. I sent a e-mail addressed to LISTPROC@mail.wustl.edu and in thebody of the message I typed in (search rodmakers - all nodeless) andreceived a return mail host unknown....550 host unknown. Everything looks fine Patrick. The error you received back, indicatesthat there was probably a typo in the listproc address. I would justtry resending your request making sure the address is exactly as youtyped it above. If you still have problems, please let me know... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from hadn@chevron.com Mon Aug 26 12:05:07 1996 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Mon, 26 Aug 1996 10:04:10 -0700 Mon, 26 Aug 1996 10:04:10 -0700 Subject: How Much? Encoding: 26 TEXT A while back we had a discussion on undercutting prices of cane rods.The consensus was we had to keep prices of rods fairly high becauseof all the hand craftsmanship involved. Some people did this as a hobbyand would be willing to get any amount of money, where others whodid this as a business have to get a set amount for each rod, or goout of business. I have been getting more and more requests to make both completerods and blanks. Most are for good friends and relatives, so I don'tmind charging a minimal amount, and for a couple relatives I gavethem a rod I made, no charge. My question is to all on the list, and especially the professional rodmakers, is how much per hour do you charge? Other things can vary,such as quality of components and such, but the most expensive partof a split cane rod is the hand craftsmanship. I considered minimumwage, and with the cost of a ferrule and bamboo, it works out toaround $300 for a blank. On the other hand, a new rod from anestablished maker goes for anywhere from $800 to $1600. If wetake the $800 case, a blank is probably about 90 percent of the workof making a new rod. 90 percent of $800 is $720. The blanks fromPartridge are $460. I've never seen a blank from Partridge, so I don'tknow how they compare to mine. What's a fair price? Darryl Hayashida from jjohnson@netime.com Mon Aug 26 12:24:15 1996 (Smail3.1.29.1 #8) id m0uv5NZ-000VJyC; Mon, 26 Aug 96 13:23 EDT Subject: Re: How Much? At 10:05 AM 8/26/96 -0700, Darryl Hayashida wrote: [snip] The blanks fromPartridge are $460. I've never seen a blank from Partridge, so I don'tknow how they compare to mine. What's a fair price? Darryl Hayashida BTW, the $460 price is for a blank with two tips. The blanks with one tipgo for $330.-------------------John JohnsonAtlanta, GA from hadn@chevron.com Mon Aug 26 13:35:57 1996 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:35:09 -0700 Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:35:09 -0700 Subject: RE: How Much? Encoding: 8 TEXT BTW, the $460 price is for a blank with two tips. The blanks with onetipgo for $330. So far I've always supplied a blank with two tips and a rod bag. Darryl Hayashida from caneman@clnk.com Mon Aug 26 15:58:02 1996 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA201 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: How Much? Hayashida, Darryl N. (hadn) wrote: A while back we had a discussion on undercutting prices of cane rods.The consensus was we had to keep prices of rods fairly high becauseof all the hand craftsmanship involved. Some people did this as a hobbyand would be willing to get any amount of money, where others whodid this as a business have to get a set amount for each rod, or goout of business. I have been getting more and more requests to make both completerods and blanks. Most are for good friends and relatives, so I don'tmind charging a minimal amount, and for a couple relatives I gavethem a rod I made, no charge. My question is to all on the list, and especially the professional rodmakers, is how much per hour do you charge? ...I considered minimumwage, and ...it works out to around $300 for a blank. ...a new rod...goes for anywhere from $800 to $1600. If we take the $800 case, ablank is probably about 90 percent of the workof making a new rod. 90 percent of $800 is $720. The blanks fromPartridge are $460. I've never seen a blank from Partridge, so I don'tknow how they compare to mine. What's a fair price? Darryl Hayashida Darryl,I can't help you on the blanks... I have been approached aboutbuilding blanks for people, and to be honest with you I feel it is likeand artist selling an unsigned painting. Some one else is going tofinish it out, then if people don't like it, they will say "Oh, that'sone of Nunley's junkie rods!" If people do like it... "Yep! Built thatmyself." Either way, you lose!!!As for new rod prices, just don't underprice. You seem to knowwhat a good quality cane rod sells for. Stick to where you think youfit and stick to your guns. If you are building meticulously and couldbuild rods 40 hrs a week 52 weeks a year you probably couldn't even make$25,000. So since this is probably not going to be your sole source ofincome, take your time, build the stick as perfect as you can and chargea premium price for it. If you discount like some makers do, then thosewho truely appreciate cane rods will wonder why yours are so cheap.Most of them will probably never give them a second look. Price to amarket and that market will eventually seek you out. thanks,Bob Nunley from hadn@chevron.com Mon Aug 26 16:29:20 1996 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:28:34 -0700 Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:28:34 -0700 Subject: RE: How Much? Encoding: 17 TEXT Text Deleted... As for new rod prices, just don't underprice. You seem to knowwhat a good quality cane rod sells for. I have a problem with that also. I am on real good terms with guysat a large fly fishing store, and I have been able to test cast canerods from several established rod makers. I'm really trying not tosound like I'm being pompous, but my rods seem to be just as goodas the ones going for $1650 and $1800. The guys at the store agree. What makes a Winston cane rod worth $1650? With an Orvis rod Ican see why it's $800 if a Winston is worth $1650, but what makes aWinston worth that much? Darryl Hayashida from caneman@clnk.com Mon Aug 26 17:20:34 1996 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA187 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: How Much? Hayashida, Darryl N. (hadn) wrote: Text Deleted... As for new rod prices, just don't underprice. You seem to knowwhat a good quality cane rod sells for. I have a problem with that also. I am on real good terms with guysat a large fly fishing store, and I have been able to test cast canerods from several established rod makers. I'm really trying not tosound like I'm being pompous, but my rods seem to be just as goodas the ones going for $1650 and $1800. The guys at the store agree. What makes a Winston cane rod worth $1650? With an Orvis rod Ican see why it's $800 if a Winston is worth $1650, but what makes aWinston worth that much? Darryl HayashidaReputation, Darryl, Reputation... The Winston rods are associated witha few great rodmakers that have worked in the shop and even owned partof the company. My bottom line (2p 1t) rods sell for $700, My 2p2tiprods generally sell for $895, but have had add-ons that brought one upto $2600 (this rod was for a collector that wanted 14K gold slidingbands, scrimshawed ivory reel seat, intricately engraved ferrules,etc.). Hopefully, in twenty or thirty years there will be two otherpeople sitting at their keyboards wondering why their rods don't sell achieve the three most important things for a rodbuilder... Reputation,Reputation, Reputation. Tight Lines,Bob from mstevens@prolog.net Mon Aug 26 21:37:18 1996 Subject: Wise Fisherman's To all, Anybody who wants a copy of The Wise Fisherman's Encyc. for it's 59 pgs ofrods and rodmaking with illustrations of all tools, email me for more info.I have an extra. Thanks. Mike Stevens Michael Stevens mstevens@prolog.net from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Aug 26 23:00:04 1996 Subject: Head Count Geee - I was just looking at the calander and realized that Labor Day wasthis next weekend. And the weekend after that I got wrote down that we aremaking a mad dash across to NY. The Flygirl (aka Lisa Lyons) has found us acampsite and every thing. I can guess that several of the list will be therebut I haven't even got a flier or anything. Maybe we could do a roll call andsee who all is going? Wayne Ps - I have good intentions of having a facelift done to hex96 and will havecopies of it at the Catskills with me for those that want it from oborge@aiss.uic.edu Tue Aug 27 05:24:46 1996 Subject: RE: Wise Fisherman's Encoding: 25 TEXT Mike,I will take it, How much do you want? ----------From: mstevens@prolog.net[SMTP:mstevens@prolog.net]Sent: Monday, August 26, 1996 9:36 PM Subject: Wise Fisherman's To all, Anybody who wants a copy of The Wise Fisherman's Encyc. for it's 59 pgsofrods and rodmaking with illustrations of all tools, email me for moreinfo.I have an extra. Thanks. Mike Stevens Michael Stevens mstevens@prolog.net from mstevens@prolog.net Tue Aug 27 10:32:44 1996 Subject: RE: Wise Fisherman's Mike,I will take it, How much do you want? ----------From: mstevens@prolog.net[SMTP:mstevens@prolog.net]Sent: Monday, August 26, 1996 9:36 PM Subject: Wise Fisherman's To all, Anybody who wants a copy of The Wise Fisherman's Encyc. for it's 59 pgsofrods and rodmaking with illustrations of all tools, email me for moreinfo.I have an extra. Thanks. Mike Stevens Michael Stevens mstevens@prolog.net Sorry, I have a tentative sale to a previous reply. I will let you know ifit does not happen. Thanks. I have a list of other fishing books and a listof bamboo project rods if you are interested. Michael Stevens mstevens@prolog.net from ddm7t@faraday.clas.virginia.edu Tue Aug 27 13:02:17 1996 27 Aug 96 14:01 EDT Subject: Re: Wise Fisherman's Hi, I just moved on to the next page of my e-mail and saw yourfollowup to your initial posting. I would, however, beinterested in hearing about the books and project rods youmentioned and, of course, would love to hear that theEncyclopedia is still available. Dave Makel ddm7t@virginia.edu from 100423.176@CompuServe.COM Tue Aug 27 14:06:01 1996 Subject: Montague Rod I have a Montague bamboo rod from the 30's or 40's. It is a 9' 3 piece rod withyellow wrappings. There were intermediate wrappings that are now missing andalthough the decal is almost gone I think it is probably a "Trail" model. Thestripping guide is missing, the tip top appears to be a substitute applied by"crimping" it in place with a pair of pliers. The originals were likely agateand agateen. The cork is shot, and the black reel seat is badly damaged (scoredand the threads cross-cut). I would like to rebuild/restore the rod. I need information about obtainingoriginal parts if possible, or at least the best substitutes. It was probablyworth about $20 originally, anybody know about what it would be worth now? George Richardson M.D.Hirschhorn, Germanywriting at 8:57 PM,on Tuesday, August 27, 1996 from JCZIMNY@dol.net Tue Aug 27 14:14:13 1996 Subject: Re: Head Count WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Geee - I was just looking at the calander and realized that Labor Day wasthis next weekend. And the weekend after that I got wrote down that we aremaking a mad dash across to NY. The Flygirl (aka Lisa Lyons) has found us acampsite and every thing. I can guess that several of the list will be therebut I haven't even got a flier or anything. Maybe we could do a roll call andsee who all is going? Wayne Ps - I have good intentions of having a facelift done to hex96 and will havecopies of it at the Catskills with me for those that want itI'm coming. John from hadn@chevron.com Tue Aug 27 18:40:27 1996 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Tue, 27 Aug 1996 16:39:36 -0700 Tue, 27 Aug 1996 16:39:36 -0700 Subject: Demarest Encoding: 23 TEXT Darryl, being new to this activity, who/what is Demerest? Do they haveacatalog? What is their address/phone number? Thanks,Roger I thought for sure someone would jump in on this one, butno one has (unless I missed the answer). Demarest is one of two places I know of that suppliesTonkin Bamboo. Charles H. Demarest IncPO Box 238Bloomingdale, NJ 07403201 - 492 - 1414Harold & Eileen Demarest Darryl from rfairfie@cisco.com Tue Aug 27 18:51:32 1996 Subject: Re: Demarest Darryl, thank you for the address and phone number. I will save it away for future reference. roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Tue Aug 27 16:45:09 1996Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 16:40:28 -0700 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: "Hayashida, Darryl N. (hadn)" Subject: DemarestX-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.838.14X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.1 -- ListProcessor by CRENContent-Length: 425 Darryl, being new to this activity, who/what is Demerest? Do they haveacatalog? What is their address/phone number? Thanks,Roger I thought for sure someone would jump in on this one, butno one has (unless I missed the answer). Demarest is one of two places I know of that suppliesTonkin Bamboo. Charles H. Demarest IncPO Box 238Bloomingdale, NJ 07403201 - 492 - 1414Harold & Eileen Demarest Darryl from jfoster@gte.net Tue Aug 27 19:52:21 1996 Subject: Re: Budget ' 97' ????? Are we still talking tbbbq here? I don't see anything wrong with 25bucks.. We don't do this every week.Mike, nice of you to eat it for AOL mail!jwf from caneman@clnk.com Tue Aug 27 20:34:22 1996 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA202 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: Montague Rod Ltc George Richardson wrote: I have a Montague bamboo rod from the 30's or 40's. It is a 9' 3 piece rod withyellow wrappings. There were intermediate wrappings that are now missing andalthough the decal is almost gone I think it is probably a "Trail" model. Thestripping guide is missing, the tip top appears to be a substitute applied by"crimping" it in place with a pair of pliers. The originals were likely agateand agateen. The cork is shot, and the black reel seat is badly damaged (scoredand the threads cross-cut). I would like to rebuild/restore the rod. I need information about obtainingoriginal parts if possible, or at least the best substitutes. It was probablyworth about $20 originally, anybody know about what it would be worth now? George Richardson M.D.Hirschhorn, Germanywriting at 8:57 PM,on Tuesday, August 27, 1996George,I have a lot of old guides, rod sections, reel seats, etc. fortrade rods. Email me at caneman@clnk.com with detailed description ofwhat you need and I will check to see if I can help you.As for the value of the rod, if it were excellent original, it"might" be worth $120 to $150. Of course it would have to have theoriginal bag and tube. The rod was made sometime between 1920 and 1939.If you could give me a detailed description of the decal, I couldnarrow that down a little closer. One thing that might give you ahint... if the original reel seat was nickel silver cap and ring with afull wells grip it was made in or after 1932, if it was nickel silversliding band with a half wells grip is was pre 1932. The were a mid toupper line rod and did use nickel silver, not nickel plated brass. Theferrules on this rod, if original should also be nickel silver, notplated and should have a soldered welt, not a rolled one. The stripperguide and the tip top were both agate, not agateen (this applies to allof the Trail models). The tip top should have been agate on the earlyrods and hardened steel on the later ones. The later rods were wrappedin yellow with red tipping. The signature wraps for the 1920's are inmy files, so if you want them, indicate so in your email and I will sendyou the colors, spacings and number of wraps at each station. Hope this helps...RL Bob Nunley,Maker (and restorer when business is slow...) from Anachemrpo@aol.com Wed Aug 28 06:51:40 1996 Subject: Re: Montague Rod Dick Spurr's "Value Guide for Bamboo Fy Rods" on the Web lists the rod thatyou describe in *mint* condition as worth $175. That is a 9 1/2 foot "Trail"Montague. Russ LavigneAnachemrpo@aol.com from hadn@chevron.com Wed Aug 28 18:42:36 1996 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Wed, 28 Aug 1996 16:41:50 -0700 Wed, 28 Aug 1996 16:41:50 -0700 Subject: Hey! It's too quiet on this list! Encoding: 7 TEXT Why all the silence? I'm working on a 6' 3" 2wt. 3 piece for myself this time.Those 6 inch trout better watch out. Darryl Hayashida from caneman@clnk.com Wed Aug 28 19:35:23 1996 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA222 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: Hey! It's too quiet on this list! Hayashida, Darryl N. (hadn) wrote: Why all the silence? I'm working on a 6' 3" 2wt. 3 piece for myself this time.Those 6 inch trout better watch out. Darryl HayashidaBuild it for yourself and use it... has anyone out there used a brokerthat was a non builder. I just had an experience with one that has beenbugging me for more than 6 months to build him a short rod that he couldfeel flex down in the handle. "I can sell these as fast as you canbuild them!" he says. Today, he called wanting to renegotiate thewholesale price because he didn't realize what a parabolic rod castlike. I told him, "Fine, If you don't mind paying for a good rod, wecan bump it up another $200. If that's too much, just send the *%#$ingthing back." Well, he didn't take that well, so, needless to say, mylittle parabolic is on it's way back. I have a customer who is waitingon one just like it, so that just gets me caught up a little. Lookslike he and I won't be doing any more business together. He really tookoffense to my statement. He said bad things about me and my mother, andmentioned that we (caneMakers) were all a bunch of egotistical,obnoxious, (couldn't quite make out the last word on this string. Hewas vigorously hanging up the phone as he spoke). Well, I was tired of selling for 30% off anyway, Bob from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Wed Aug 28 22:27:15 1996 Subject: Silence? DarrylYour 6'3" sounds like a neat rod would you post tapers at some point?I was intrested in the 'how much' thread as a newbie and having built from blanks and earlier purchased finished rods my feeling is what the marketmarket will bear for you to make a profit. I can't forsee a profit atthis point from the standpoint of aquiring and building equipment a break-even point is a long ways away. As for having built on other makers blanksmy first comment to anyone is that blanks maker. I have also penned the blank makers name or shop name on the rod. from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Wed Aug 28 22:44:47 1996 Subject: Re: Hey! It's too quiet on this list! Bob - egotistical & obnoxious - Nunley seez... I told him, "Fine, If you don't mind paying for a good rod, wecan bump it up another $200. If that's too much, just send the *%#$ingthing back." That's telling him Bob!!! Good for you. Hell, the guy probably hadin mind all along, 're-negotiating' the price. ORN (Obligatory Rodmaking Note): _Still_ working on the pair of(hopefully) Leonard Model 38 clones! OFN (Obligatory Fishing Note): Through a most fortunate turn of events,I find myself heading up to Grayling, Michigan this weekend. YES!!!A friend and I will be meeting up with Wayne Cattanach who promises tocontinue our training in becoming proper Trout-Bums!!! Mike - ORNing & OFNing - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from jmeier@bright.net Wed Aug 28 23:45:00 1996 Subject: Re: Hey! It's too quiet on this list! At 13:16 8/28/96 CDT, you wrote:Bob - egotistical & obnoxious - Nunley seez... I told him, "Fine, If you don't mind paying for a good rod, wecan bump it up another $200. If that's too much, just send the *%#$ingthing back." That's telling him Bob!!! Good for you. Hell, the guy probably hadin mind all along, 're-negotiating' the price. ORN (Obligatory Rodmaking Note): _Still_ working on the pair of(hopefully) Leonard Model 38 clones! OFN (Obligatory Fishing Note): Through a most fortunate turn of events,I find myself heading up to Grayling, Michigan this weekend. YES!!!A friend and I will be meeting up with Wayne Cattanach who promises tocontinue our training in becoming proper Trout-Bums!!! Mike - ORNing & OFNing - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. Mike,If you have the time and the chance you might want to try fishing the LittleManistee by Irons. It's clean and wadable. I just got back from vacationthis week and fished it with great results. I've fished it since I was a boyand in over 30 years have always caught fish out of it. It's my favoritestream in the whole state of Michigan. The salmon are also moving up thestreams (ones not blocked by dams) and it is really something to be in themiddle of a stream and see fish 20 to 30 lbs. swim past you like rockets. from jmeier@bright.net Wed Aug 28 23:45:47 1996 Subject: Re: Wise Fisherman's At 14:01 8/27/96 -0400, you wrote:Hi, I just moved on to the next page of my e-mail and saw yourfollowup to your initial posting. I would, however, beinterested in hearing about the books and project rods youmentioned and, of course, would love to hear that theEncyclopedia is still available. Dave Makel ddm7t@virginia.edu Dave,Ken Callahan had a copy (within the last week) for $31.50 post paid. He hadbeen holding it for me but I had already found a copy in a used bookstore.You may want to give him a call at 603-924-3726.Jim from khube@benmeadows.com Thu Aug 29 07:05:16 1996 Subject: Time to Glue With a long weekend coming up....it is time to glue up two rods. I have used resourcinol in the past, but this time it will be URAC. I don'thave a balance available that can measure the small weights of resin andcatalyst needed. Does anyone have an estimate of the volume equivilance forthis material ? The weekend temperatures will be typical Georgia.....probably 80+ in theshop at glue time. Would it be wise to cool the glue container to extend thepot life ? Although two rods are involved, I will have two separate gluesessions so I don't get in too much trouble with running low on glue in themiddle of the run, etc................ Thanks for any comments. Everyone in the States have a good holiday andeveryone in other locations.........don't work too hard on Monday while weplay !! Karl HubeMarietta, GeorgiaUSA from cmefford@avwashington.com Thu Aug 29 08:16:16 1996 Subject: Re: Time to Glue With a long weekend coming up....it is time to glue up two rods. I have used resourcinol in the past, but this time it will be URAC. I don'thave a balance available that can measure the small weights of resin andcatalyst needed. Does anyone have an estimate of the volume equivilance forthis material ? The weekend temperatures will be typical Georgia.....probably 80+ in theshop at glue time. Would it be wise to cool the glue container to extend thepot life ? Although two rods are involved, I will have two separate gluesessions so I don't get in too much trouble with running low on glue in themiddle of the run, etc................ Thanks for any comments. Everyone in the States have a good holiday andeveryone in other locations.........don't work too hard on Monday while weplay !! Karl HubeMarietta, GeorgiaUSA I'm a newbie here,and I have never built a cane rod. You are descibing a resin/catylist glue, which tells me epoxy. I know a little bit about epoxies. Something I learned from something of a epoxie master was; If you are glueing any porus material at all, Heat the work up with someradiant deviceso that depending on the mass of the work it will cool to ambient after theglue kicks, in thisway the epoxy gasses in rather than out and you end up with a bubble ordefect free job. It works chipper from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Thu Aug 29 08:29:58 1996 Subject: Re: Time to Glue With a long weekend coming up....it is time to glue up two rods. I have used resourcinol in the past, but this time it will be URAC. I don'thave a balance available that can measure the small weights of resin andcatalyst needed. Does anyone have an estimate of the volume equivilance forthis material ? The weekend temperatures will be typical Georgia.....probably 80+ in theshop at glue time. Would it be wise to cool the glue container to extend thepot life ? Although two rods are involved, I will have two separate gluesessions so I don't get in too much trouble with running low on glue in themiddle of the run, etc................ Thanks for any comments. Everyone in the States have a good holiday andeveryone in other locations.........don't work too hard on Monday while weplay !! Karl HubeMarietta, GeorgiaUSA Karl, I have used Urac on my first two rods with good results. I usedplastic measuring spoons and mixed 4 parts liquid to 1 part catalyst. Ialso feel that at 80 plus degrees it would be advisable to cool the glueto slow the reaction process. I put the glue in a six pack cooler withice in the bottom, seemed to work fine. Also you might want to check out John Zimny's note in the planning form.He is replacing the catalyst powder with ammonium chloride. There byeliminating the walnut shells that is the filler in the powder. Theresult is a tighter glue line. In the rods I glued with the powder I didpick up 2%-5% thickness, I feel that is from the glue. The Zimny note isin the Mar/Apr. issue of the planning form. Also I talked with George Mauer last week and he has started using theammoniumchloride and feels it is a great improvement. He also recommended heatsetting the glue immediatly after gluing in your oven at 150 to 200degrees for 1 hour, then letting it set 24 hours before removing string. You can get the ammonium chloride from The Science Fair, 140 collegeSquare, Newark Delaware19711, Phone 302-453-1817. The cost is &25.99post paid. I hope this is of help.Jim from FFer4trout@aol.com Thu Aug 29 08:38:24 1996 Subject: Re: Hey! It's too quiet on this list! In a message dated 96-08-28 20:13:11 EDT, you write: Darryl, Three things: 1) The local bamboo is about 1.5" in dia. and unless I get deeper into theclump (or what ever you call a growth of bamboo) and find larger stuff, Iguess too small for rod mfg. 2) Piru Creek has been cleaned out again. One of our club members fished itrecently and the bait or fishnet crowd has cleaned out the wild trout C&Rsection again. Do we need a warden or what. 3) P.C. is also in the middle of the large Marple Cyn. arson fire and I'llbet that it's tree cover is all burned away and that next winter's rains willfill the stream with mud. So get your 6' rod finished and hurry over to the San Gab.to test it. Don B. PS - Sorry for the use of bandwidth but it has been too slow lately. from jjohnson@netime.com Thu Aug 29 09:11:56 1996 (Smail3.1.29.1 #8) id m0uw7nm-000VJeC; Thu, 29 Aug 96 10:10 EDT Subject: Re: Time to Glue At 07:59 AM 8/29/96 -0500, Karl Hube wrote:[snip]I have used resourcinol in the past, but this time it will be URAC. I don'thave a balance available that can measure the small weights of resin andcatalyst needed. Does anyone have an estimate of the volume equivilance forthis material ?[snip] Karl, If you feel like running over to Lilburn I have a reloading scale that youcan use. Or, if something happens and you decide to wait for a couple ofweeks, I'll deliver it to you in exchange for looking at your setup. See ya,-------------------John JohnsonAtlanta, GA from hadn@chevron.com Thu Aug 29 11:01:44 1996 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Thu, 29 Aug 1996 09:00:55 -0700 Thu, 29 Aug 1996 09:00:55 -0700 Subject: RE: Silence? Encoding: 36 TEXT DarrylYour 6'3" sounds like a neat rod would you post tapers at some point? This is a taper I designed myself using an Excel spreadsheet I stucktogether. I want to see if it performs as expected before I post it. Itried to make it a no quarter given, take no prisoners, *fast* rod. Most2 wt. rods are a bit on the slow side. Which makes sense, most peoplearen't looking for a distance casting rod when they buy a 2 wt. Idesignedit that way just to see if I can do it. I was intrested in the 'how much' thread as a newbie and having built from blanks and earlier purchased finished rods my feeling is what themarketmarket will bear for you to make a profit. I can't forsee a profit atthis point from the standpoint of aquiring and building equipment abreak-even point is a long ways away. As for having built on other makersblanksmy first comment to anyone is that blanks maker. I have also penned the blank makers name or shop name on the rod. Depends on what you call a break even point. Selling three blanksor two complete rods will get the money back that you spent ontools, but I don't think you can realistically get into this expectingto make any money at it. If you really went after it, marketed yourself, devoted every spare minute to making rods, you might make some foldingcash. But, you still better keep your day job. I made rods for a yearbeforeI felt I made them good enough to sell. Darryl Hayashida from hadn@chevron.com Thu Aug 29 11:07:51 1996 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Thu, 29 Aug 1996 09:07:05 -0700 Thu, 29 Aug 1996 09:07:05 -0700 Subject: RE: Hey! It's too quiet on this list! Encoding: 33 TEXTI really should take this to private email, but since hardlyanything else is happening on this list, I'll post it here. Darryl, 1) The local bamboo is about 1.5" in dia. and unless I get deeper intotheclump (or what ever you call a growth of bamboo) and find larger stuff,Iguess too small for rod mfg. Actually, 1.5 diameter is ok. You just get less strips from a culm thanyoudo with larger stuff. Instead of enough strips for two or three rods,youget only one rod from a culm. The only other problem I can see is theaging. By the time a culm makes it from China to here it's been agedenough. Freshly cut, it probably needs to dry for a couple of months. 2) Piru Creek has been cleaned out again. One of our club membersfished itrecently and the bait or fishnet crowd has cleaned out the wild troutC&Rsection again. Do we need a warden or what. One reason I don't go there very often. Those guys that are gill nettingthe wild trout should be gillnetted themselves and strung up. Darryl Hayashida from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Aug 29 11:43:46 1996 Subject: Re: Hey! It's too quiet on this list! We've kind of got off topic here, but since we have so manyMichiganders on this list I'll ask anyway... Does anyone fish the Big Sable river (no relation to the AuSable)which flows into Lake Michigan north of the PM and south of theLittle Manistee? I used to fish it when I lived in Ohio, but Ihaven't been there for 8 or 10 years...We had good success in thestretches around Freesoil Rd and upstream of a little town calledMillersport or Millerstown or something (which had no paved roadsin or out). The latter was good dryfly water...a good place to tryout a new light cane rod. In between these two stretches was whatthey called "the swamp", which I imagine would be fun from a canoeduring the Hex hatch. Just waxing nostalgic, I guess.........................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@csd.uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Thu, 29 Aug 1996, James Meier wrote: Mike,If you have the time and the chance you might want to try fishing the LittleManistee by Irons. It's clean and wadable. I just got back from vacationthis week and fished it with great results. I've fished it since I was a boyand in over 30 years have always caught fish out of it. It's my favoritestream in the whole state of Michigan. The salmon are also moving up thestreams (ones not blocked by dams) and it is really something to be in themiddle of a stream and see fish 20 to 30 lbs. swim past you like rockets. from khube@benmeadows.com Thu Aug 29 11:49:29 1996 Subject: Re: Time to Glue Jim's reply=============> Karl, I have used Urac on my first two rods with good results. I usedplastic measuring spoons and mixed 4 parts liquid to 1 part catalyst. Ialso feel that at 80 plus degrees it would be advisable to cool the glueto slow the reaction process. I put the glue in a six pack cooler withice in the bottom, seemed to work fine. Also you might want to check out John Zimny's note in the planning form.He is replacing the catalyst powder with ammonium chloride. There byeliminating the walnut shells that is the filler in the powder. Theresult is a tighter glue line. In the rods I glued with the powder I didpick up 2%-5% thickness, I feel that is from the glue. The Zimny note isin the Mar/Apr. issue of the planning form. Also I talked with George Mauer last week and he has started using theammoniumchloride and feels it is a great improvement. He also recommended heatsetting the glue immediatly after gluing in your oven at 150 to 200degrees for 1 hour, then letting it set 24 hours before removing string. You can get the ammonium chloride from The Science Fair, 140 collegeSquare, Newark Delaware19711, Phone 302-453-1817. The cost is &25.99post paid. I hope this is of help.Jim==========================================================================Jim.............. Thanks, good stuff. What's your recommendation on volumethat should be mixed(in teaspoons) to avoid the panic of running out in the middle of spreading.I know the rod length and surface areas are different, but what have youdone for a "normal" 6 1/2 to 8 foot rod ? I'll go back and read the Zimny article, too. Karl Hube*********************************F. Karl HubeBen Meadows Company, Inc.Atlanta, Georgia USA khube@benmeadows.com********************************* from jmeier@bright.net Thu Aug 29 13:17:02 1996 Subject: Re: Hey! It's too quiet on this list! At 11:43 8/29/96 -0500, you wrote:We've kind of got off topic here, but since we have so manyMichiganders on this list I'll ask anyway... Does anyone fish the Big Sable river (no relation to the AuSable)which flows into Lake Michigan north of the PM and south of theLittle Manistee? I used to fish it when I lived in Ohio, but Ihaven't been there for 8 or 10 years...We had good success in thestretches around Freesoil Rd and upstream of a little town calledMillersport or Millerstown or something (which had no paved roadsin or out). The latter was good dryfly water...a good place to tryout a new light cane rod. In between these two stretches was whatthey called "the swamp", which I imagine would be fun from a canoeduring the Hex hatch. Just waxing nostalgic, I guess.........................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@csd.uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Thu, 29 Aug 1996, James Meier wrote: Mike,If you have the time and the chance you might want to try fishing the LittleManistee by Irons. It's clean and wadable. I just got back from vacationthis week and fished it with great results. I've fished it since I was a boyand in over 30 years have always caught fish out of it. It's my favoritestream in the whole state of Michigan. The salmon are also moving up thestreams (ones not blocked by dams) and it is really something to be in themiddle of a stream and see fish 20 to 30 lbs. swim past you like rockets. Frank,I fished it last week from Pole bridge to Swamp bridge. I'll email you offthe list with the particulars a little later since this is really off thelist subject matter and I don't want to get flamed.Jim from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Thu Aug 29 13:39:48 1996 Subject: Michigan Fishing Jim seez... I fished it last week from Pole bridge to Swamp bridge. I'll email you offthe list with the particulars a little later since this is really off thelist subject matter and I don't want to get flamed. Not at all Jim!!! C'mon, let us all here about it. I'll file it in my personal archives under 'Rod Testing' !!! :-) Mike - goin' *Rod Testing* - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from RONGEY@aol.com Thu Aug 29 13:58:01 1996 Subject: Sable River Frank: I have fished the Sable for several years, particularly in mid-June to earlyJuly when the hexagenia hatch. I have witnessed numerous evening spinnerfalls with so many flies on the water that an artificial could not be seen.Nice population of healthy, wild browns. But the mosquitoes, no see-ums anddeer flies make it a challenging evening - they thrive on DEET! Justdownstream from the Millerton bridge I was recently treated to a fly-by by abald eagle. It's not much of a fishery for afternoon activity, though I'mtold there are a few brookies to be found if you search them out. I also fish the Little Manistee ( and plan to this Saturday!) There arenumerous small rainbows (I assume they are small steelhead) and an occasionalwild brown to be taken on terrestrials this time of the year, butunfortunately, those large salmon tend to put most of the trout under cover.Oh well...It's a beautiful stream for Wayne's6'3" 4 wt 3 piece rod, which I'm pleased to own and which I enjoy fishingwhenever I can! Ken RongeyGrand Rapids MI from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Thu Aug 29 22:27:12 1996 Subject: more activity Darryl your comments are to the point and I will keep them in mind when ?I produce the first rod. I won't get into the the fishing days suffice to sayto say it has a beatiful day on the North Platte (the wind didn't blow). from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Thu Aug 29 23:06:46 1996 Subject: Re: Time to Glue ?6c>>==========================================================================Jim.............. Thanks, good stuff. What's your recommendation on volumethat should be mixed(in teaspoons) to avoid the panic of running out in the middle of spreading.I know the rod length and surface areas are different, but what have youdone for a "normal" 6 1/2 to 8 foot rod ? I'll go back and read the Zimny article, too. Karl Hube*********************************F. Karl HubeBen Meadows Company, Inc.Atlanta, Georgia USA khube@benmeadows.com********************************* Karl, the firsy rod I used 1 table spoon of catalyst to 4 tablspoons ofglue. On a seve foot rod it was barely enough, may have put it on alittle heavy but sunce I have added 1 teaspoon catalyst - 4teaspoons ofglue and had plenty left over which I do not mind since the shelf lifewill run out before I use all the pint. Jim from hadn@chevron.com Fri Aug 30 17:09:05 1996 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Fri, 30 Aug 1996 15:08:17 -0700 Fri, 30 Aug 1996 15:08:17 -0700 Subject: Taper design and tight loops. Encoding: 13 TEXT A thought has begun to gel in my mind (frightening isn't it?).I can think of no other way to characterize it other than byusing a stress graph, so here goes. Suppose you design a taper that has a peak stress of200,000 at 5 inches from the tip. Will that rod (everythingelse being equal) cast a tighter loop than a rod with thepeak stress at 15 inches from the tip? In other words,does the length of the most flexible portion of the firstthird of the rod affect the size of the loop when casting? Darryl Hayashida from caneman@clnk.com Fri Aug 30 20:16:56 1996 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA176 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: Taper design and tight loops. Hayashida, Darryl N. (hadn) wrote: A thought has begun to gel in my mind (frightening isn't it?).I can think of no other way to characterize it other than byusing a stress graph, so here goes. Suppose you design a taper that has a peak stress of200,000 at 5 inches from the tip. Will that rod (everythingelse being equal) cast a tighter loop than a rod with thepeak stress at 15 inches from the tip? In other words,does the length of the most flexible portion of the firstthird of the rod affect the size of the loop when casting? Darryl HayashidaThanks, Darryl,Just about the time I settle into tapers that I really like, youget me started scratching my head and digging through the drawer for mycalculator. Bob Nunley... from JCZIMNY@dol.net Sat Aug 31 09:18:37 1996 Subject: Room at Roscoe We have an extra room at the Roscoe Motel for next weekend. This is forthe gathering at Roscoe. Anyone need a room? If not we're going tocancel.John