from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Jun 1 02:32:59 1996 Subject: Giant Ferrules I have a good supply of large nickel plated ferrules. I will check thisweekend and let everyone know what I have. So thats what they were for!A.J.Thramer from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Jun 1 02:33:19 1996 Subject: Re: ORVIS HARDWARE CSE stands for Creative Sports Enterprises. # is 802-525-3623. He makesferrules, hookkeepers, windind checks and reel seats. All of excellentquality.TTBBBQ stands for The Trout Bum BarbeQue and is a gathering od bamboocrazedpeople in Grayling Michigan.A.J.Thramer from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Jun 1 07:55:07 1996 Subject: TBBQ-II Mike-If Wayne's buying I'll meet you @ Spikes. Dennis Higham Wayne,IL Wed/pm - Sun/pm(maybe Mon.) Dennis from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Jun 1 08:53:58 1996 Subject: Re: crappie rod In a message dated 96-05-31 16:34:54 EDT, you write: Question is, If I put a fly on the end of the line, can I use it inflyfishing only waters? Bet you can if there is a fly at the end of the line. Come to think of it,that would probably be a good way to bugg for bass. My first fly fishingexperiences were much like that, except we used creek cane (1940's). Regards,RTyree from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Jun 1 21:45:54 1996 Subject: Re: TBBQ-II In a message dated 96-06-01 08:50:59 EDT, you write: If Wayne's buying I'll meet you @ Spikes Hey !!! Why do I always get stuck with the bill? I don't even drink! I just hope you guys are praticing tying flies on in the dark - therewill be no moon for the evening float. Wayne TTBBBQ stands for The Trout Bum BarbeQue and is a gathering od bamboocrazedpeople in Grayling Michigan. The Single Malt Scotch and other Adult beverages might be an influence aswell from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Jun 1 22:45:01 1996 Subject: TTBBBQ II - passing thoughts some thoughts on bamboo rods might look at "In The Ring Of The Rise" byVinceMarinaro. Ever wonder why a fellow from Pennsylvania wrote about aMichiganstream? On page 179 you will even see a photo of a AuSable riverboat.Well otherone from Michigan the other from Pennsylvania. Two members of the groupwererod makers Vince and Art Neumann. Art had a flyshop in Saginaw, MI calledWanigas Rod Co. For those that were here last year may remember seeingArtsshop sign in the clubhouse (aka 'Work - Shopp' - In honor of ChippewaChief,David Shoppenagon - whose home stood near that location in the late1800's).If health prevails Art will be at the get together this year. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Jun 2 13:14:39 1996 Subject: Re: Big Rod's Here in Europe we tend to use bigger rods than in USA - Canada. Ifish for salmon in the Byskeriver in the north of Sweden (and inrivers in the north of Norway). My favourite onehanded bamboorods are 9'6" #9 and 10' #9-10. I also use a twohanded 13' #10 rod.Heavy stream, big flies and heavy fish suits these rods.Why not try a twohanded rod the next time? Spey-casting with atwo-handed splitcane is the ultimate!/Mikael from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Jun 2 19:54:39 1996 Subject: TBBQ_II WAYNE -Sorry, I didn't realise you abstained - Meet you @ Spikes and I'll buythe Lemonade. Dennis from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Jun 2 20:59:57 1996 Subject: Re: Crappie pole? TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Dear Jonathan, I also believe that this is a case where you should not trytoimprove much on the work of the Great Rodmaker. Find a natural pole,flame itand dress it up as you wish, but don't get carried away! There is a man inour area who calls himself "The Colonial Angler" who fishes trout withsuchtackle. He dresses and fishes in the manner of an 18th centurysportsman. Wehad him speak at our TU chapter recently. The guy was amusing andinformative, and slightly obnoxious. Among other things, he told us thatareel was a poachers tool and no gentleman would fish with one.I believe I have his name right as Ken Reinhard, and he is affiliated withthe Donegal ( PA ) Chapter of TU. He has a book out, which should beavailable through The Anglers Art and probably others. If you can contacthimor get the book you will probably end up knowing more than you want toaboutsuch rods.Tom Smithwick I'e been following the "CRAPPIE POLE" discussions with a lot ofamusement. Growing up in Texas wewould cut our own "poles" from along the side of the road -- "GeorgiaCane" it was called.Depending on the time of the year we may of had to "cure" these rods for afew weeks in the sun sothat they were sufficiently dried to be fishable. Then atttaching a pieceof kite string on towhich we had mounted a dried corn cob from the barn, through which ahole had been carved with anail to hold the string -- string being snugged with a chicken tail feather-- we were almost inbusiness. Only needed a few washers for weight, a purchased ( orotherwise obtained ) hook,garnished with "hackle" from the garden and we were finally ready. Thisknowledge of how to "build"my first CANE rod came from my greatest fishing mentor -- my MOM --and many a crappie, bluegill,catfish, and largemouth bass ended up in our frying pan. Long before thedays of catch and release,but necessity back then. Anyone who needs further instruction, I can provide. LIFE IS SHORT -- HAVE FUN, fred from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Jun 2 21:13:41 1996 Subject: Re: TBBQ_II Dennis wrote the following: WAYNE -Sorry, I didn't realise you abstained - Meet you @ Spikes andI'll buythe Lemonade. You'll do much better with coffee..... lots of it! :) from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 3 08:49:15 1996 Subject: TBBBQ-II Here's the latest list of attendees for TBBBQ-II. If I missedanyone, or have incorrect information, please let me know. Name: From: Dates: Mike Biondo St. Louis, MO Thur/pm - Mon/amBill Waara Detroit, MI Thur/pm - Sun/pmBill Waara Jr. Detroit, MI Thur/pm - Sun/pmWayne Cattanach Casnovia, MI Tues/pm - Sun/pmMatt Cattanach Casnovia, MI Tues/pm - Sun/pmLyndi Cattanach Casnovia, MI Tues/pm - Sun/pmRichard Tyree Nashville, TN Thur/pm - Tue/pmOlaf Borge Chicago, IL Thur/pm - Sun/amPhil Rundhaugen Coon Valley WI Thur/pm - Sun/amReed Curry Temple, N.H. Thur/pm - Sun/amJohn ZimnyKen Rongey Sat -Dennis Wigham Wayne, IL Weds/pm - Sun/pmHank Woolman Thurs - SunMarcia Woolman Thurs - Sun Mike - is it time to leave yet - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 3 08:49:33 1996 Subject: Canadaian rodmakers Are there any other Canadian rodmakers on the list besides Terry A. andmyself? If so, can you contact me at my regular e-mail address. Thanks, Mark from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 3 21:11:12 1996 Subject: Re: TBBQ-II WayneI don't even drink! was that single malt PEPSI Jer from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 4 07:06:27 1996 Subject: Re: Casting rod tapers In a message dated 96-05-31 12:26:14 EDT, you write: I have about 10-12 casting rod tapers that were developed by arod maker in Illinois during the 50's. Give me a day or two to dig themout and I will send them to you. I am interested in knowing if anyoneout there knew the developer of these tapers. His name was Cecil Buist,and I was fortunate enough to buy out the remains of his shop includingall of his fly rod and casting/spinning rod tapers; even some pre-embargocane of which I still have some. I am saving it for that last one Imake. Ralph Moon Hello Ralph:I have not run across the name before. However, an interesting point -haverun across references written in 30's -40s' to the fact that even then,therewere many, many amature bamboo builders out here. Also, wouldappreciateseeing tapers of some of the lighter casting rods should you get the time.Just curious, how do you know which one is going to be the last one youmake? :~) Best Regards,Richard Tyree from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 4 08:27:48 1996 Subject: List Mail To Mike Biondo: Hi Mike:I need to know if AOL is eating e-mail again. Have received only a couple aday from the list for the last three to four days. Please advise. Thanks and Regards,Richard Tyree from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 4 16:15:01 1996 Subject: 18th century style rods I wish to acquire reproduction 18th century rods made of ash, hazel,willow,greehart, cane or bamboo. I am interested rods with 18th century styleferrules and ones requiring splicing. I can furnish specifications andfurther information to anyone who might be interested in such a project. Iappreciate your attention to this inquiry. Regards,Paul W. Jonespwjones@onr.com9306 Roxanna DriveAustin, Texas 78748512 282- 6662Fax 282-5704 from owner-mo_flyfish@lists.missouri.edu Tue Jun 4 16:26:18 1996 Subject: ANNOUNCE: Trout Unlimited in St. Louis Wednesday 6/12/96 ANNOUNCE: Trout Unlimited in St. Louis Wednesday 6/12/96 There will be TROUT UNLIMITED meeting in the St. Louis area on WednesdayJune 12th at 6:30PM. This is open to the public. The speaker will be Mr.Chuck Tryon, author of "Fly Fishing for Trout in Missouri" Your attendance is encouraged. We'll be meeting at the MID-COUNTY branchof the St. Louis County Library. The meeting will be in the auditorium. St. Louis County LibraryMID-COUNTY BRANCH7821 Maryland Ave at CentralClayton, MO 63105 We need to park on the street or in the lot across the street. Their smallparking lot is for library patrons first. For directions or further infofeel free to contact me. -Mark- _/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ Mark Devino (devino@mo.net)_/ _/ _/ TROUT UNLIMITED_/ _/ _/ Meremec Basin chapter - St. Louis_/ _/_/_/_/ 314-926-3307 H 314-928-1149 W from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 4 16:32:12 1996 Subject: Catskills II ????? I was just talking with Lisa Lyons at the Catskills FF and she was (andI was also) wondering if there was going to be a fall get together? I hadtalked to Bob and Kim Reid a few months ago and encouraged them to do itagain. ????????????? WayneI just love those no sleep weekend drives to the east coast - punishmewell !!!! from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 4 17:37:57 1996 Subject: TBBBQ-II And the list continues to grow... Name: From: Dates: Mike Biondo St. Louis, MO Thur/pm - Mon/amBill Waara Detroit, MI Thur/pm - Sun/pmBill Waara Jr. Detroit, MI Thur/pm - Sun/pmWayne Cattanach Casnovia, MI Tues/pm - Sun/pmMatt Cattanach Casnovia, MI Tues/pm - Sun/pmLyndi Cattanach Casnovia, MI Tues/pm - Sun/pmRichard Tyree Nashville, TN Thur/pm - Tue/pmOlaf Borge Chicago, IL Thur/pm - Sun/amPhil Rundhaugen Coon Valley WI Thur/pm - Sun/amReed Curry Temple, N.H. Thur/pm - Sun/amJohn Zimny Wilmington, DL Thur - MonKen Rongey Sat -Dennis Wigham Wayne, IL Weds/pm - Sun/pmHank Woolman Thurs - SunMarcia Woolman Thurs - SunTom Ball Petoskey, MI Fri - SatDick Schiller Louisville, Ky Thur - TueChris Bogart Luray, VA Thur - Mon Mike - Grayling Bound - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 4 19:00:32 1996 Subject: RE: Re[2]: Dip Tubes I have a question regarding the dip tube thread; Darryl, I like the valve / stationary rod idea. What type of valve areyouusing to drain the varnish, and how do you control the flow rate? The valve I used was the kind sold for the water supply for arefrigerator ice maker I found in a hardware store. I think anyvalve of the screw down type (rather than the toggle type) willwork. To install it in the pipe end cap, all I did was to screwin a pipe fitting and sealed it with epoxy. To control the rate, all you do is crack open the valve andwatch it drain. It's pretty easy to determine the rate aftera test or two. It doesn't have to be precise, there is plentyof leeway for drainage rate. Darryl Hayashida from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 5 11:01:25 1996 Subject: Hardware For New Rod I need to locate the hardware for my new Garrison #193. Inparticular, I amlooking for a butt cap and slide band that will let me produce theGarrison- style grip. In addition I'll need to pick up a single male #11ferrule. Although I have brochures from George Maurer, David LeClair andREC, it is not clear who else might meet my requirement. By the way, thisrod is not going to be a work of art, so the full upscale fittings wouldprobably be overkill. Anybody had luck finding these items recently ?? Karl HubeMarietta, Georgia from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 5 12:32:16 1996 Subject: Re: Hardware For New Rod In a message dated 96-06-05 11:57:27 EDT, you write: In addition I'll need to pick up a single male #11ferrule. Hello Karl:You probably can get the ferrule from: Classic Sporting Enterprises, IncRoaring Brook RoadRD # 3, Box 3Barton, Vermont05822(802) 525-3623 Fax-3982 CSE supplies a lot of ferrules to bamboo rod builders. Bailey Wood is theowner/operator. He advertises in The Planing Form "Other sizes andvariations available upon request" so you can probably get exactly whatyouwant. Best Regards,Richard Tyree from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 5 15:18:05 1996 Subject: TBBBQ-II -- [ From: John Zimny * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- We should have at least one meeting. No?Zimny from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 5 16:28:16 1996 Subject: Re: TBBBQ-II John Zimny seez... We should have at least one meeting. No? Sounds like a great idea! It would sure be nice to haveall the RODMAKERS@ folks get together if for nothing elsebut to put faces to the email addresses. I really have no idea what the itinerary for the weekendis. All I know for sure is the dinner Saturday evening. Wayne, has a time been setup for your workshop yet?Perhaps, we can all get together about an hour or sobefore the workshop? Wayne, would it be possible touse the 'clubhouse' as a meeting place, or could yousuggest a place??? Suggestions/Comments... Mike - meetin' rodmakers - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 5 20:08:22 1996 Subject: Re: TBBBQ-II Ron Barch (aka The Planing Form) has the official agenda. In generalformal presentations both mornings demos in the afternoon. The Fly Factory is located at the bridge (AuSable mainstream) - The shopisright on the river. The 'Clubhouse' is just across the street - a couple ofus lease it to hang out in - The morning meetings are IN the 'Clubhouse'andit will be available for whatever/whenever. Spike's is just a hundredyards(crawling distance) north of both and across the street.The Plan - Matt, Lyndi & I are going to be in town tuesday night - tofish and clean up the 'Clubhouse' - Wednesday night fishing (all night withno moon) - Chris and Reed can fillin the details. Thursday fishing andgreeting incoming(there will be a message board for whatever) -Thursdaynightfishing (all night with no moon) - Friday morning formal presentations (Harold Demarest slides of china - rod design -etc ........) Friday afternoon- there is a floatilla of riverboats that will be running the 'Holy Water'going from landing site to landing site - trying to give as many as possiblea short float - I have two boats in my front yard as I write a new one thatI'm trying to finish and a older plank boat that I'm trying to restore by theget together ( that's why you haven't heard much of me lately) - I thinkthatthere will be about 9 boats and most will carry 2 'sports' there are 9milesand 6 landings so that's about 100 people. Friday night - I will haveseveralsets of tools for a hands on workshop - chat time - beer - pizza -whatever -fishing(all night no moon) - Saturday morning (try to get off the river tomake meeting) - more formal presentations - Saturday afternoon - chattime -casting time - swap stories - Saturday night (TTBBBQ II) with theCompuserveFF group and locals - sporting flies - food - a small auction (streamrestoration fund) - fishing(all night no moon) - Ben (my wife) will betherewith Cheryl Tieren(Miles' better half) fishing comes to an end. Sundaymorning - search for survivors???? There is a great story about PaulYoungand Fred Bear (they were fly drinking buds).Mike - I hope that this has filled in your dance card more appropriately- you will note that non important events (like sleeping) have beenpurposelyleft out. In case of rain there will be a large tent setup plus the'Clubhouse'. Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 5 21:02:11 1996 Subject: Re: TBBBQ-II Oh !!!! One last thing Mike - this year besides the regulars Dunkin' DanTooman will be in town - I've mentioned to him that you might beinterestedin a boat ride - he's not called Dunkin' because he likes donuts - the listis long and renown !!!! from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 5 23:38:44 1996 Subject: Re: TBBBQ-II Thanks for the agenda Wayne. I am trying to get free to go and this helpsmeplan.Anyone going from the Chicago area, besides Olaf, I would like to car poolifpossible.ThanksRich Jeziororichjez@wwa.com *_________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ //|| __________________________________________________||/\/ \ > > > from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 6 09:00:13 1996 Subject: Re: TBBBQ-II Wayne seez... Oh !!!! One last thing Mike - this year besides the regulars Dunkin' DanTooman will be in town - I've mentioned to him that you might beinterestedin a boat ride - he's not called Dunkin' because he likes donuts - the listis long and renown !!!! Sounds like just my man!!! That way I would have a good excusewhen I fall out of the boat!!! :-) Mike - all wet - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 6 09:59:58 1996 I subscribed (or at least I think that I did) and have recievednothing back. Can you confirm my attempt? Would really like to asksome questions and I need answers! Lots of answers!!! Thanks, J.Bewley from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 6 16:48:48 1996 Subject: Re: Hardware For New Rod In a message dated 96-06-05 11:57:27 EDT, you write: need to locate the hardware for my new Garrison #193. Inparticular, Iamlooking for a butt cap and slide band that will let me produce theGarrison- style grip. In addition I'll need to pick up a single male #11ferrule. Although I have brochures from George Maurer, David LeClair andREC, it is not clear who else might meet my requirement. By the way, thisrod is not going to be a work of art, so the full upscale fittings wouldprobably be overkill. Anybody had luck finding these items recently ?? Karl HubeMarietta, Georgia You might try Bob's Tackle Shop, Tennyson St., Denver, Co. 303-455- 7926They have large inventory purchased from Wright-McGill and Garrison. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 7 07:17:47 1996 Subject: RE: = Thanks,== J.Bewley I think most of the usual posters to this list are at a BBQ getting drunkand telling lies!!! Flu Terry (The lucky stiffs) from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 7 08:07:17 1996 Subject: American Angler Could someone please e-mail me the address of American Angler Magazine.Thanks,Jon Parker from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 7 08:18:17 1996 Subject: G. Griffiths' Rod Raffle personal Dickerson "8014" cane rod [raffled by George Mason Chapter ofTrout Unlimited here in Grayling]: 1. Thanks for your support of the George Mason Chapter and AuSable River restoration projects. 2. The rod was won by Steve Walker, of Drummond Island, Mich. Regards, Steve~~ from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 7 09:38:46 1996 Subject: Grip Contruction In the process of gluing up grip cork, what seems to be the favoredadhesive? On the work bench I have Titebond II, Urac, and Devcon 2-Tonepoxy. Any strong feelings on the issue ? Thanks. Karl HubeMarietta, Georgia from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 7 10:14:01 1996 I am new to the list so I will introduce myself. I was introduced tofly fishing by a friend while stationed in Germany in 1977. I had beena die hard spin fisherman up to that point, but gave all those rodsand tackle box away when I left country. Only the fly rod came home. Iwas captivated by "bamboo" right from the very start and knew I had tohave one. My next assignment was to the Washington, DC area where Iran across the "Anglers Art " when Barry still had the shop in GeorgeTown. I knew very little and had as much money, but I found a reasonto go in there a couple of times a week. He took pity on me and madeit as painless as possible for me to purchase an Hardy "Placona" (SP)rod in a #6 weight. I then ran across a three section, 8 1/2 foot"Montague" complete with broken tip section and bent snake guides. Itwas "bamboo" so it did not matter. I bought several books (to includeGarrison) and went to work on it. With advice from Barry it turned outwell. I next came in possession of a per-made bamboo blank which Iwonin a drawing at a DC area fly fishing show and again went to work. Itwas funny because my number came up came up about tenth andeveryonebefore me picked up the rod tube first, looked inside at the bambooblank and put it back down. I just held my breath and dove on it whenmy number came up. I can not remember which shop donated the blank,however the owner came up to me and said that they would like to seethe finished product at next years show. I did complete the projectand returned the following year. I showed it to the person and he wentback behind his stand and came out with a stalk of raw cane. He handedit to me and said to bring that project the next year. I was in wayover my head. A blank is one thing, a stalk of cane is another. Neverwalking away from a good project I went to work. I got transferredback to Germany before the next show so I never made it back. Iremember that the shop was in Machanicsberg, PA and wish I remenberthe persons name. I did complete the rod which in Germany, using onlybooks and what tools I could locate in the craft shop was no easytask. Where was the "Inter-net" then when I had all these questions? Iuse the present tense here because I still have the same questions.The rod looks good and feels good TO ME. I fish with it still, howeverI have no idea if I did it correctly and you experts would most likelylaugh out loud when you saw it. After that I made many rods from othermaterials but they do not count. Bamboo is the real thing. I want tomake another and another and another, however until now I did notknowwhere to get the advice I needed. So let me wind this up by sayingthat I have built and worked with bamboo rods but do not even considermyself a novice yet. I am glad to be on the list and look forward tolearning from all of you. Just bare with me. I have a lot ofquestions. Jim Bewley from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 7 10:20:00 1996 Subject: Re: Grip Contruction Karl seez... In the process of gluing up grip cork, what seems to be the favoredadhesive? On the work bench I have Titebond II, Urac, and Devcon 2-Tonepoxy. Any strong feelings on the issue ? I've had good luck with Titebond. Especially nice is being able towash off oozed out glue with water. Mike - 'oozing' forth - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 7 10:59:23 1996 Subject: Re: Grip Contruction Karl seez... In the process of gluing up grip cork, what seems to be the favoredadhesive? On the work bench I have Titebond II, Urac, and Devcon 2-Tonepoxy. Any strong feelings on the issue ? I've had good luck with Titebond. Especially nice is being able towash off oozed out glue with water. Mike - 'oozing' forth - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. ============================================================================ Dear "Oozing forth"......................That's what I hoped to hear afterrunning around trying to get the Acetone open to clean "2-Ton" off myhandslast weekend. By the way, everyone's strong belief in Devcon 2-Ton seemstohave paid off. I reworked my first rod that had old-stule thermal-setferrule cement. Comments on cleaning were right on as swabbing out theferrule parts brought out the old adhesive and left a clean bore. The epoxyworked so much better than the 5-Minute stuff and allowed carefulseating.There will be "casting on the lawn" this weekend to test the results. Karl HubeMarietta, Georgia from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 7 10:44:54 1996 Subject: Re: Grip Contruction In the process of gluing up grip cork, what seems to be the favoredadhesive? On the work bench I have Titebond II, Urac, and Devcon 2-Tonepoxy. Any strong feelings on the issue ? Thanks. Karl HubeMarietta, Georgia Hello Karl,A number of the rod makers I know use Devcon 2- ton, that's what I useandhave had good results.Mark from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 7 12:31:09 1996 Subject: Re[2]: Grip Contruction I have an opposite question on this subject. I need to take a reelseat and grip off a bamboo rod. Somebody point me in the rightdirection please. Jim ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Grip ContructionAuthor: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet-Mail In the process of gluing up grip cork, what seems to be the favoredadhesive? On the work bench I have Titebond II, Urac, and Devcon 2-Tonepoxy. Any strong feelings on the issue ? Thanks. Karl HubeMarietta, Georgia Hello Karl,A number of the rod makers I know use Devcon 2- ton, that's what I useandhave had good results.Mark from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 7 12:38:44 1996 Subject: Re: American Angler BamboRods@aol.com wrote: Could someone please e-mail me the address of American AnglerMagazine.Thanks,Jon Parker Address I have from the magazine is: Abenaki Publishers126 North StreetP. O. Box 4100Bennington, VT 05201- 4100Tele: (802) 447-1518fax: (802) 447-2471 fRED bOHLS from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 7 13:25:04 1996 Subject: RE: Re[2]: Grip Contruction - I have an opposite question on this subject. I need to take a reel= seat and grip off a bamboo rod. Somebody point me in the right= direction please. Are you trying to save the real seat and grip, or just remove them. Do you want to save the bamboo? I'm getting ready to do the same to an old bamboo rod and the List hassuggested that I sacrifice the cork and plastic seat. Terry KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fla. TKirkpat@CLW.UNISYSGSG.COM from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 7 13:36:02 1996 Subject: Re: New Guy rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu's message of 07-Jun-96 11:02 boundary=Boundary-2315882-0-0 --Boundary-2315882-0-0 Jim, welcome to the web. Don't sell yourself short- you are a rodmaker. Do you know about the conclave (TBBQ) in Grayling Mich. June 21-22? John Long. --Boundary-2315882-0-0 CREN I am new to the list so I will introduce myself. I was introduced tofly fishing by a friend while stationed in Germany in 1977. I had beena die hard spin fisherman up to that point, but gave all those rodsand tackle box away when I left country. Only the fly rod came home. Iwas captivated by "bamboo" right from the very start and knew I had tohave one. My next assignment was to the Washington, DC area where Iran across the "Anglers Art " when Barry still had the shop in GeorgeTown. I knew very little and had as much money, but I found a reasonto go in there a couple of times a week. He took pity on me and madeit as painless as possible for me to purchase an Hardy "Placona" (SP)rod in a #6 weight. I then ran across a three section, 8 1/2 foot"Montague" complete with broken tip section and bent snake guides. Itwas "bamboo" so it did not matter. I bought several books (to includeGarrison) and went to work on it. With advice from Barry it turned outwell. I next came in possession of a per-made bamboo blank which Iwonin a drawing at a DC area fly fishing show and again went to work. Itwas funny because my number came up came up about tenth andeveryonebefore me picked up the rod tube first, looked inside at the bambooblank and put it back down. I just held my breath and dove on it whenmy number came up. I can not remember which shop donated the blank,however the owner came up to me and said that they would like to seethe finished product at next years show. I did complete the projectand returned the following year. I showed it to the person and he wentback behind his stand and came out with a stalk of raw cane. He handedit to me and said to bring that project the next year. I was in wayover my head. A blank is one thing, a stalk of cane is another. Neverwalking away from a good project I went to work. I got transferredback to Germany before the next show so I never made it back. Iremember that the shop was in Machanicsberg, PA and wish I remenberthe persons name. I did complete the rod which in Germany, using onlybooks and what tools I could locate in the craft shop was no easytask. Where was the "Inter-net" then when I had all these questions? Iuse the present tense here because I still have the same questions.The rod looks good and feels good TO ME. I fish with it still, howeverI have no idea if I did it correctly and you experts would most likelylaugh out loud when you saw it. After that I made many rods from othermaterials but they do not count. Bamboo is the real thing. I want tomake another and another and another, however until now I did notknowwhere to get the advice I needed. So let me wind this up by sayingthat I have built and worked with bamboo rods but do not even considermyself a novice yet. I am glad to be on the list and look forward tolearning from all of you. Just bare with me. I have a lot ofquestions. Jim Bewley --Boundary-2315882-0-0-- from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 7 15:40:53 1996 Subject: Re: Grip Contruction In a message dated 96-06-07 11:55:22 EDT, you write: Dear "Oozing forth"......................That's what I hoped to hear afterrunning around trying to get the Acetone open to clean "2-Ton" off myhandslast weekend. Tho I also use Tightbond for grips, have found that denatured alcoholworksgreat when epoxy used for other needs, and it is more user friendly thanacetone. Someone posted on the list that vinigar also works well and thusshould be better that alcohol. Regards,RTyree from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 7 15:40:54 1996 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Grip Contruction In a message dated 96-06-07 13:24:45 EDT, you write: I have an opposite question on this subject. I need to take a reelseat and grip off a bamboo rod. Somebody point me in the rightdirection please. Jim Hello Jim:You and I have a similar problem. Mine is a fine old Heddon with incorrectreel seat. I sought advice from Jim McKinley of Macklin Customs who haslotsof experience at such and with Heddons. Since the incorrect reel seat hasawooden spacer, he suggested the judicious use of a band saw for removal(longitudinal cuts w/o harming the cane). Should your reelseat be allmetalwith wooden filler, you probably can remove it with heat from a heat gunorblow dryer. Probably the only way to remove the cork is with a rasp orsuch.Suggest use of masking tape for protection of the bamboo ahead of thegrip.Please let us know what you learn from the experience. Regards,RTyree from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 7 15:51:33 1996 Subject: Re: Grip Contruction Karl, Pleased that it's going so well on the rod.What I found from a rod that I'm attempting to fish to distruction ( 4000hours and counting) is that epoxies that do not "give" with the cork willtend to ridge at the glue lines after extended use. I used an epoxy and havehad to sand the glue line area a number of times as the glue line get high.High is a relative term - - maybe 0.005>0.010" above adjacent cork. Stillyou can feel it and it is distracting. Have talked to others and they haverecommended a number of different glues - mostly wood type likeTitebond orElmer's. Best of luck, Don In the process of gluing up grip cork, what seems to be the favoredadhesive? On the work bench I have Titebond II, Urac, and Devcon 2-Tonepoxy. Any strong feelings on the issue ? Thanks. Karl HubeMarietta, Georgia from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 7 16:31:03 1996 Subject: Re: Grip Contruction - glue cleanup Dear "Oozing forth"......................That's what I hoped to hear afterrunning around trying to get the Acetone open to clean "2-Ton" off myhandslast weekend. By the way, everyone's strong belief in Devcon 2-Ton seemstohave paid off. I reworked my first rod that had old-stule thermal-setferrule cement. Comments on cleaning were right on as swabbing out theferrule parts brought out the old adhesive and left a clean bore. The epoxyworked so much better than the 5-Minute stuff and allowed carefulseating.There will be "casting on the lawn" this weekend to test the results. Karl HubeMarietta, Georgia Try cleaning up wet epoxy with denatured alchohol. Once it is set, it isanother story from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 7 18:04:54 1996 Subject: Re: American Angler Jon I saw the first reply: however if you want subscription infocall 1-800-877- 5305 and address is: American AnglerPO Box 434Mount Morris, IL 61054-0434 By-th-way Dave Klausmeyer is an associate editor you can givehim a call at New England Angler (207) 546-2018. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Jun 8 09:06:04 1996 Subject: Re: American Angler Thanks to all for the address of American Angler Remember your address book and don't leave home without it! (like I did) Jon Parker from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 10 07:07:36 1996 Subject: Looking for cured bamboo Rodmakers,I am looking for a few (2?) culms of bamboo that are old enough to beused.Is anyone coming to TBBQII who has cured bamboo in excess of theirimmediateneeds?I know it is like asking for your first man child.....but I will pay whatever you think is reasonable.I have ordered four culms of new bamboo from Ron Barch's group order but from what I understandit will not be ready for at least two years. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 10 07:41:33 1996 Subject: Hex not equal? I finally got a .001in dial caliper and started measuring some ofthe parts, looking for sizes that would come close to a reasonabletaper.To my surprise when measuring the tapers on the pieces, I've foundthat they very seldom are the same on all sides! In fact some seem tobe quite a bit out of line. I'm wondering if these irregular readings are normal in productionfly rods of the past? (I stared measuring the side with the guides and worked my wayclock wise. I often measured more then once when the reading seemedcompletely out of line.) Below are some examples. six foottip1 2 3 Avg. Delta5 089 087 091 08910 111 101 114 109 2015 128 126 127 127 1820 141 141 139 140 1325 159 158 160 159 1930 178 178 176 177 1835 ===== butt =====40 217 213 220 21745 226 226 227 226 1050 238 241 238 239 1355 243 247 243 244 560 255 261 259 258 14 2 mid sectionstop ferrule 13/645 222 231 238 23010 251 255 265 257 2715 275 277 280 277 2020 279 276 280 278 125 289 280 296 288 1030 19/64 top ferrule 9/645 198 183 187 18910 207 205 207 206 1715 216 210 215 214 720 221 216 222 220 625 233 216 219 223 330 16/64 from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 10 08:12:04 1996 Subject: Re: Looking for cured bamboo rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu's message of 10-Jun-96 06:51 boundary=Boundary-2322065-0-0 --Boundary-2322065-0-0 I can't see any reason that bamboo has to be cured before using. We heattreat the cane, usually in an oven, so what is the need or advantage tohavingaged cane that has been laying around for a few years "drying"? Commentsanyone? John Long --Boundary-2322065-0-0 Subject: Looking for cured bamboo CREN Rodmakers,I am looking for a few (2?) culms of bamboo that are old enough to beused.Is anyone coming to TBBQII who has cured bamboo in excess of theirimmediateneeds?I know it is like asking for your first man child.....but I will pay whatever you think is reasonable.I have ordered four culms of new bamboo from Ron Barch's group order but from what I understandit will not be ready for at least two years. --Boundary-2322065-0-0-- from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 10 08:17:47 1996 Subject: Re: Looking for cured bamboo Olaf -I can supply you with the needed bamboo - $14.00/culm - Please let meknow your needs. Obviously I will be at TTBBQ II. I am courious who toldyouthat the current shipment needs curing? Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 10 08:43:40 1996 Subject: Re: Hex not equal? Terry What you see is quite "normal" for most rods - They were notexact. I have seen cases of good production rods being much furtheroff. The only rods, suposely, that you will get exact measurements onare Dickersons. This info was from a man who has delt extensively withthese rods. Looking at some of your measurements - some of thosesections are quite good - by some standards. Ask any rodmaker if hehas built a "perfect" rod and see the answer you will get. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 10 08:57:35 1996 Subject: Re[2]: Looking for cured bamboo Glad you asked this question. I was given the culm that I used andnever thought about it having been aged first. I used a metal pipewith a hole cut in the screw-on cap at each end. Hung it length wiseand rotated it with a glove as I heated the pipe with a torch. Crude Iguess but it worked and the color was beautiful. Would this processnot eliminate the need to age the cane? I'm asking. I'm not sure. Now that I am getting back into this after 10+ years, where do I getthe culms from now? Jim ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Looking for cured bambooAuthor: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet-Mail --Boundary-2322065-0-0 I can't see any reason that bamboo has to be cured before using. We heattreatthe cane, usually in an oven, so what is the need or advantage to havingagedcane that has been laying around for a few years "drying"? Commentsanyone? John Long --Boundary-2322065-0-0 Subject: Looking for cured bamboo CREN Rodmakers,I am looking for a few (2?) culms of bamboo that are old enough to beused.Is anyone coming to TBBQII who has cured bamboo in excess of theirimmediateneeds?I know it is like asking for your first man child.....but I will pay whatever you think is reasonable.I have ordered four culms of new bamboo from Ron Barch's group order but from what I understandit will not be ready for at least two years. --Boundary-2322065-0-0-- from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 10 09:16:48 1996 Subject: Re: Looking for cured bamboo A couple of weeks ago I talked to an old-timey rod builder namedWalt Coaty. The first thing he asked me is where I got mycane from and how long I "aged" it before I used it. When Isaid I got it from Demarest, he said that it should be aged 5 yearsbefore use. I've had my cane about a 1-1/2 years; he assured me thatthe rods I'm buiding from it would be soft. Walt doesn't use an oven; he just flames his cane. He has some rods built from a culm he flamed until it was black. He says they are fantasticcasting rods, but that they are so brittle that he would never sellthem to anyone. I'm just a beginner at this stuff; what do I know? Woodworkers alsodiscuss the difference between air dried and kiln dried lumber andthe length of time different woods need to be dried. It seems to meI can tell the difference between a 2-year-old and a 50-year-old pieceof hardwood when I put a plane to it. I'd guess that something changesin the wood with time besides moisture content. Maybe the people at theForest Products Lab could shed some light on this?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterInformation and Media Technologies than a waterproof coat and aUniv Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,stetzer@csd.uwm.edu "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Mon, 10 Jun 1996 LONGJ@detroitedison.com wrote: I can't see any reason that bamboo has to be cured before using. We heattreat the cane, usually in an oven, so what is the need or advantage tohavingaged cane that has been laying around for a few years "drying"? Commentsanyone? John Long from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 10 09:48:47 1996 Subject: Re: Hex not equal? Okay, I've got a question...what are some of the reasons thatwould make an out-of-hex hex??? Of course if the strips werenot all the same I could see it. Assuming though, you had sixequal strips, what are some of the other causes we should beon the watch for in gluing up the rod? Mike - oval shaped - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 10 11:05:09 1996 Subject: Re: Hex not equal? "Okay, I've got a question...what are some of the reasons thatwould make an out-of-hex hex??? Of course if the strips werenot all the same I could see it. Assuming though, you had sixequal strips, what are some of the other causes we should beon the watch for in gluing up the rod? Mike - oval shaped - Biondo" Mike - Interesting question. I think some error comes from innacuratemeasuring of the strips. If you use a use a caliper or micrometer without a"v" groove you are liable to bend the apex of the strip, or you may haveknocked off a small piece of the apex. In either case you have a problem.Kinks, particularly around a node will often produce an inaccuracy, as theymay not lay flat when bound.It's much more comforting to think of tolerances in terms of percentagesofthickness, rather than thousanths of an inch. For example a .004 error in atip section might represent a 5-6% variance, which could be serious. Thesameerror in a butt section might be a 1-2% error, which no caster could feel.To anyone who can hold .001 in a butt section, all I can say is "You're abetter man than I am Gunga Din."Leave it to an Irishman to answer a question with another question, butperhaps one of the math majors out there could explain the relationshipbetween tolerance errors and the springback force of the rod. My ownlimitedunderstanding is that springback is related to the cube of thickness, andthat this is why tolerances have such a large effect. Is that true?Tom Smithwick from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 10 15:52:01 1996 Subject: Re: Hex not equal? = What you see is quite "normal" for most rods - They were not=exact. I have seen cases of good production rods being much further=off. The only rods, suposely, that you will get exact measurements on=are Dickersons. This info was from a man who has delt extensively with=these rods. Looking at some of your measurements - some of those=sections are quite good - by some standards. Ask any rodmaker if he=has built a "perfect" rod and see the answer you will get. Thanks for the info. I had a feeling that might be the case. I rememberreading somewhere that originalrods were built to 1/64. Terry KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fla. TKirkpat@CLW.UNISYSGSG.COM from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 10 15:57:39 1996 Subject: Re: Hex not equal? Tom You are right about measurements - not just thickness - angles ofthedangle are known not to be exactly 60 degrees. Another factor is unequalsanding when removing glue and final finish. So this all goes to show youthat it is hand crafted vice a machined clone. Each rod has an individualpersonality and the "not equal" measurements contribute to it. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 10 18:08:51 1996 Subject: Unequal Measurements -- [ From: John Zimny * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- Terry et al,Welcome to the real world. Indeed, most production rods have largeareas of unequal flat measurements.Zimny from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 10 19:33:40 1996 Subject: Finishes After 6 months of progress I glued my first rod up today. I know it isnot perfect but it shure looks good to me. however my mind is now turning tofinishes.My first thought is a hand rubbed tung oil since I do not have a dip tube.A local builder has reccomended Ted's True Oil. Does anyone have anyexperience withthis? Also should the Tung Oil be pure Tung Oil only or Tung oil /Varnish? Would I be better off bitting the bullet and making a dip tube? Any thoughton this would be greatly appreciated. Jim Fillpot from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 10 21:04:23 1996 Subject: Re: Hex not equal? In a message dated 96-06-10 10:44:02 EDT, you write: Okay, I've got a question...what are some of the reasons thatwould make an out-of-hex hex??? Of course if the strips werenot all the same I could see it. Assuming though, you had sixequal strips, what are some of the other causes we should beon the watch for in gluing up the rod? Mike - oval shaped - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. Hi Terry and Mike:I think Tom Smithwick is right on, but do not have as much experience ashedoes to back it up. One other consideration is that seemingly, "thingschange" as one is progressing from the start of strip one thru six. Havefound that as the plane blade dulls the response differs and the finisheddimension of the strips change, tho the feel remains similar and one isdownto the metal on all. And if you measure three sides on each strip at each5"increment, the plot will thicken. Someone told me that he had a conversation with Sam Carlson (page 140 - 141"Classic Rods and Rod Makers", Keane). He said that Mr Carlson toldhimthat the present crop of rod makers is really doing the job right, in thatthey take the bamboo down close with power equip and then for accuracy,finish the job with planing form and plane. He said that it was no greatexception for the equipment used in the past to produce rods with largerod-to-rod differences at the same point on rods that were of the sametaper,mod #, etc. It follows that large strip to strip differences would be nogreat leap. And so it goes - guess there is no such thing as "everything else beingequal" in our gentle art, because nothing is. Regards,RTyree from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 10 21:20:12 1996 Subject: Re: Finishes Jim,I think that the tung oil finish would be a good one to try for your firstrod.I have made four rods and I am still battling the "finish coat thing". Whilemaybe not the most durable finish, tung oil is certainly one of the mosteasilyapplied finishes. It may require a recoat more frequently but I would gowithit. Out here in the west (Seattle) I would use Daly's Seafin oil. This is atypeof tung oil. I have done real seats and one rod with this finish and you cangeta perfect (looking)finish the first time. Building a dip tank is not reallyveryhard. I just finished one complete with a heater for the varnish and using aBBQmotor as a drive ( I had to reduce the speed). I have yet to try it out but Ithink that it will be the way to go, at least for me. Hopefully, all myfinishtroubles will be over with now. To close, I think that the tung oil would bereally the best way to go right now as you probably have enough otherthings onyour mind in regards to the whole building process. I'm sorry that I can'tgiveyou more info on different types of oil to use. Martin Jensen from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 11 06:38:58 1996 Subject: Re: Finishes Jim Fillpot wrote: After 6 months of progress I glued my first rod up today. I know it isnot perfect but it shure looks good to me. however my mind is now turning tofinishes.My first thought is a hand rubbed tung oil since I do not have a dip tube.A local builder has reccomended Ted's True Oil. Does anyone have anyexperience withthis? Also should the Tung Oil be pure Tung Oil only or Tung oil /Varnish? Would I be better off bitting the bullet and making a dip tube? Any thoughton this would be greatly appreciated. Jim Fillpots Jim I have used tung oil on my last 8 rods with great success. I put 9 to 11coats on thenwrap the guides and add another coat or two after the varnish is totallydry. I've been usingtung oil that I got from Garrett Wade. I have come to perfer the satinfinish that oil givesyou. But it will not fill gaps like varnish will. Have fun, Jonathan Clarke from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 11 07:04:28 1996 Subject: Re: Hex not equal? = You are right about measurements - not just thickness - angles ofthe=dangle are known not to be exactly 60 degrees. Another factor is unequal=sanding when removing glue and final finish. So this all goes to show you=that it is hand crafted vice a machined clone. Each rod has an individual=personality and the "not equal" measurements contribute to it. = Chris I was wondering about alignment at the time of gluing? Could thesectionsbe out of aline then, or while the glue was drying, could the sections slip. Terry KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fla. TKirkpat@CLW.UNISYSGSG.COM from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 11 09:12:15 1996 Subject: Re: Finishes Jim, When I built my rod I read and reread all the thoughts on the oldmasters. I could not build a dip tube at the time and I could not getthe brush (no mater what the bristles were made of) to draw alongleaving no bubbles. You may laugh at this, but here is what worked.The object is to draw the varnish along at a rate where you maintain asurface tension as it goes. I placed the varnish (warm) in a largebowel. Then I got a really high quality bath towel. One side is smoothand the back has a nap to it. I cut a square about 6" by 6" andgathered all the sides in my fingers forming a lose "puff" (lack ofbetter word) in front. I then held the rod vertical, dipped the "puff"carefully into the varnish and then drew it down the rod at an evenpace. It only takes two passed as the "puff" does half the rod at onetime. The towel holds enough varnish to go from end to end withoutrunning out and starting to bubble. It does not over coat the rod andI had no sags. Practice first the get the correct speed. I have donethree rods this way and had no problem. CAUTION: Do not delay inmaking the two swipes. Once the varnish starts to set, the second passwill drag against the first coat, which is on the other side. Also, donot make but one pass each side. Try two and your in trouble. This maysound strange, however it worked for me with no problems. Jim B. ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: FinishesAuthor: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet-Mail After 6 months of progress I glued my first rod up today. I know it isnot perfect but it shure looks good to me. however my mind is now turning tofinishes.My first thought is a hand rubbed tung oil since I do not have a dip tube.A local builder has reccomended Ted's True Oil. Does anyone have anyexperience withthis? Also should the Tung Oil be pure Tung Oil only or Tung oil /Varnish? Would I be better off bitting the bullet and making a dip tube? Any thoughton this would be greatly appreciated. Jim Fillpot from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 11 12:15:40 1996 Subject: RE: Finishes After 6 months of progress I glued my first rod up today. I know it isnot perfect but it shure looks good to me. however my mind is now turning tofinishes.My first thought is a hand rubbed tung oil since I do not have a diptube.A local builder has reccomended Ted's True Oil. Does anyone have anyexperience withthis? Also should the Tung Oil be pure Tung Oil only or Tung oil /Varnish? Would I be better off bitting the bullet and making a dip tube? Anythoughton this would be greatly appreciated. Jim Fillpot Another recurring theme. Maybe we should make a FAQ forfinishes and glues. Here is a repost on finishes I posted quitea few months ago. **************************************************************************** The traditional finish has been Tung oil. This is the stuffthat is used when the finish is described as a hand rubbedoil finish, although Danish oil could also be used, try to avoidthis because Danish oil isn't as waterproof as Tung oil. The next traditional finish is Marine Spar Varnish, and latelya lot of bamboo rod builders have been using the newPolyurethanes. Advantages and disadvantages to each are:Tung oil can dry out and lose its waterproofing ability, but itis readily replenished by rubbing on a few coats. Scratchesare readily fixed just by rubbing the oil over the scratch. Italsodoesn't require a dipping tube setup.Marine Spar varnish can go into meltdown if you happento leave it exposed to the sun in your car, or other highheat sources. It runs, gets gummy and sticks to everythingit comes into contact with, like the rod sock, or cements thetip section to the handle section if they were stored next toeach other, sticks to the car seat, etc. On the other hand,it can be repaired easily if you should scratch or chip it.Just dab new varnish over the ding and buff it out.Polyurethane is a very hard, very durable, long lasting finishit doesn't dry out, doesn't go into meltdown, and is very hardto scratch or chip. But, if you should scratch it, it is veryhardto repair. You can dab fresh polyur on the scratch or chip, butitdoesn't buff out very nicely. You end up with a lumpy, wavysurface. I would try to determine what kind of fisherman the person usingthe rod is. If the guy only fishes a few times a year and stores therod away most of the year, put a polyur finish on it. If the rod isgoing to be used a lot, or the person using the rod will be moreconscientious in caring for the rod, use a tung oil or marine sparvarnish. I prefer tung oil for my own rod, but the rod I made for myDad, who fishes once or twice a year, I put polyurethane on. Usually if you are going to dip finish the rod, wrap the guides onfirst.But, the choice is yours. There are no great disadvantages towrapping on your guides over the finish, except most things youwill use to finish the wraps don't stick very well to tung oil. Darryl Hayashida from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 11 13:22:12 1996 Subject: Re: Finish hints from Darryl H. Darryl, You are one heckuva helpful and informative individual. Write a book and*I'll* buy it! Russ LavigneAnachemrpo@aol.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 11 13:27:43 1996 Subject: Tung Oil Jonathan.................Any choices on brands of oil ? I noticed smallbottled quantities in the finiishing section of the local home- improvementcenter.....about right for small projects. Any problem with varnished windings in the guides bonding to the rod ? Karl Hube from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 11 13:27:43 1996 Subject: Tung Oil Jonathan.................Any choices on brands of oil ? I noticed smallbottled quantities in the finiishing section of the local home- improvementcenter.....about right for small projects. Any problem with varnished windings in the guides bonding to the rod ? Karl Hube from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 11 14:49:02 1996 Subject: Need Phone No. and Address For Martin Keane Does anyone have the phone number and address for Martin J. Keane ofClassic Fine Tackle, in Massacheusetts?? Any assistance would be appreciated. Thanks.Ian ScottWishbone Custom Rods wishbone@headwaters.comhttp://credit.headwaters.com/wishbone ********************************************************************************************* "The butterfly counts not months but moments,and has time enough." Rabindranath TagoreFireflies, 1928 from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 11 14:53:31 1996 Subject: Ferrules I made a dumb mistake at the end of last season (which I will not gointo) and snapped a rod tip section at the ferrule. When it went ittook a small chip out of the guide side of the ferrule. I cleaned itout, brought the ferrule back to square and reseated the rod tip. Thismay be a basic question that I should know, but will the ferrule beingabout 1/8" shorter make any difference as far as strength goes. Arethey a certain length because so much rod has to be supported? I havenot read anything on this in my books and would not have thought aboutit had I not had to shorten this one. If this has been covered beforejust point me in the right direction to find it. Thus far the serverhas not answered my requests for "help" so that I can look at oldpostings. Thanks. Jim B. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 11 15:25:03 1996 Subject: RE: Finish hints from Darryl H. Darryl, You are one heckuva helpful and informative individual. Write a bookand*I'll* buy it! Russ LavigneAnachemrpo@aol.com The list members were so helpful when I was starting out,I just like to give back what I received. Darryl Hayashida from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 11 16:40:54 1996 Subject: HEDDON ROD history I thought someone may be able to help this person. I loaned my copy ofSinclair's book out to someone and donty have an answer at hand. Thanks. Mark, i just bought a Heddon 8 1/2 foot 5/6 wt and i would like toknow how long heddons have been around, and if they areqaulity rods. I got for fairly cheap so i dont know to much about it. Reply to AlaskaFly@aol.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 11 18:00:18 1996 Subject: Re: Hex not equal? Terry Alignment during at time of gluing. I mark the back of my stripswith a pencil on the 5" marks I have scribed on my final form. When I glue Itry to get the marks to line up to form a solid line around the rod. Now -this brings the point to mind. We all measure at an interval and strive toget the measurement right on. Now - what about the never - never land inbetween the stations?? We could have some real differences there. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 11 19:53:32 1996 Subject: Re: Need Phone No. and Address For Martin Keane Does anyone have the phone number and address for Martin J. Keane ofClassic Fine Tackle, in Massacheusetts??Thanks.Ian Scott Classic Rods & TackleP.O. Box 288Ashley Falls, MA 01222 (413) 229-7988 Hope this helps. My best, Dave EngerbretsonMoscow, Idaho=================================================================dengerbr@moscow.comhttp://www.finefishing.com/FINEFISH/AUTHORS/ENGERBR/TITELINE.STM================================================================= from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 11 21:38:22 1996 Subject: Skeeter Alert !!!! blood packing or bringing some DEET or Skin So Soft. For the past severalweeks it has rained about every day here and with the wet conditions and thecoming sunlight and warmer temperatures - look out - We are said to have some50 varieties of skeeters and I'm sure they will be allhatching next weekend. Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 11 23:29:43 1996 Subject: Re: Hex not equal? Mike, Been pondering this for the last while and there seems to be a few thingsthat will cause bad glue lines. Some I tried and some I was told about.Here goes:1] A bristle from your glue brush comes loose and sneaks into the joint.Cure: Use the best qualtiy toothbrush that you can get. Soak it a little andwork the hell out of it over the top of a drinking glass before the firstuse. Any loose bristles will fall out.2] A slight bit of masking tape from the taping for gluing stage betweenstrips. Cure: Place your tape on the center of each flat and use as fewtapes as possible. For a 4" section, I use only 3 tapes.3] A chip of glue from your binding cord. Cure: Run it over an old blankseveral times to loosen all the old glue. It will generally just fall off.4] Catalyst full of large chips. Cure: screen the stuff throughly. I boughtmy sieve from Sears for a couple of bucks. Was gonna get one from aScientific supply house till I found out the price. That's all I can think of for now. Don Okay, I've got a question...what are some of the reasons thatwould make an out-of-hex hex??? Of course if the strips werenot all the same I could see it. Assuming though, you had sixequal strips, what are some of the other causes we should beon the watch for in gluing up the rod? Mike - oval shaped - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 11 23:35:07 1996 Subject: TBBBQ-II I haven't posted the attendee list lately, so here go... Name: From: Dates: Mike Biondo St. Louis, MO Thur/pm - Mon/amBill Waara Detroit, MI Thur/pm - Sun/pmBill Waara Jr. Detroit, MI Thur/pm - Sun/pmWayne Cattanach Casnovia, MI Tues/pm - Sun/pmMatt Cattanach Casnovia, MI Tues/pm - Sun/pmLyndi Cattanach Casnovia, MI Tues/pm - Sun/pmRichard Tyree Nashville, TN Thur/pm - Tue/pmOlaf Borge Chicago, IL Thur/pm - Sun/amPhil Rundhaugen Coon Valley WI Thur/pm - Sun/amReed Curry Temple, N.H. Thur/pm - Sun/amJohn Zimny Wilmington, DL Thur - MonKen Rongey Sat -Dennis Wigham Wayne, IL Weds/pm - Sun/pmHank Woolman Thurs - SunMarcia Woolman Thurs - SunTom Ball Petoskey, MI Fri - SatDick Schiller Louisville, Ky Thur - TueChris Bogart Luray, VA Thur - MonJerry Foster Sun - Mon Been trying to figure out a way of getting us all together forintro's and such. Looks like quite a few us will be gettinginto town Thursday evening. It would be nice if we could allhook-up to say hello. If this is alright with Wayne, how about when you get into town,head over to the 'clubhouse'. Seems like as good a meeting spotas any. Any other suggestions... Mike - itchin' to get goin' - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 11 23:41:59 1996 Subject: Finishes Thanks to everyone for the help on finishes. I have decided to stick withTung oil for the first rod, with some reservations to the waterproofness.As always the group is a great help. I hope I am not boring any one withsubjects already covered. Thanks again. Jim from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 12 01:47:35 1996 Subject: Heat Treating with a Heat Gun Hi Darryl, I remember many months back you mentioned using a heat gun to treat yourculms prior to splitting the culm. For the life of me, I cannot recallhow you did it (ie. how long it took, temperature, burnt cane, etc.). I'd appreciate if you'd advise me, as I am reluctant to spend more moneyon a heat oven. I also recall that you used Excel polyurethane glue for a rod. Are yousatisfied using that adhesive rather than the others that we all normallyuse? Thanks for your help. Sincerely, Erwin BautistaPhysiology Graduate GroupUC Davis from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 12 10:16:41 1996 Subject: RE: Heat Treating with a Heat Gun Hi Darryl, I remember many months back you mentioned using a heat gun to treatyourculms prior to splitting the culm. For the life of me, I cannot recall how you did it (ie. how long it took, temperature, burnt cane, etc.). I'd appreciate if you'd advise me, as I am reluctant to spend moremoneyon a heat oven. I split a culm in half lengthwise, go outside and I use a barbecue tohold the culm at a convenient height. To do a whole half of a culmwill probably take 40 to 50 minutes with the heat gun on high, sodon't be surprised when your electric bill arrives. I start in themiddleof the culm, in the middle of a section (I refer to the area betweennodes as a section), and work my way towards the ends. Afterstarting in the middle of the middle section, work your way fromthe heated end (node) towards the end side of each section.Don't skip any sections, and don't skip any portion of a section,and don't "overrun" any areas, that is, move the heat gun over asection faster than you have done other sections. The effect youare trying to achieve is to drive the moisture out ahead of thepreviouslyheated area. You can either heat all the way to one end, then go back to the middle and heat all the way to the other end, or you can alternateside to side until you reach both ends. Either way works fine. You heatthe inside pith until it starts to scorch to a sort of "salt and pepper" appearance, moving the heat gun back and forth at about an inch asecond until the pith scorches. Use a pliers and break away as muchof the inside diaphragm at each node as you can. It seems that theinsideridge left is more flammable than the rest of the pith. If it burstsinto flame,or starts glowing like a coal, just lick your finger and snuff it out,just likeputting out a candle. Pay a lot of attention to the node areas. On onerodI had a node area come out a lot softer which took a set easily. I thinkitmight have been due to not heating the node enough. Since it is thicker,it takes more heat to properly temper. Once the pith is scorched to theproper color you can heat the enamel side if you want a browned look. so be careful how you hold the culm, and where you grab it as you moveit around. Take a look at the end of the culm just as you reach it withtheheat gun. You will probably see a lot of steam and liquid escaping outofthe cut end. Also notice how that liquid tuns black as you heat it. Thisisthe exact same appearance you get from roughed out splines when theyget heat treated in an oven. If you want a flamed appearance, you can flame it later. If youdo flame it, flame until you just get the color you want. At this pointtheflaming is just for color, not heat treatment. You can use the culm without flaming if you want a light colored rod. This heat treatment methodlends itself to aggressive heat treatment with very little color changeon the outside. By the way, don't use a propane torch to scorch theinside pith. A torch heats the surface too intensely and doesn't givethe heat enough time to soak through. You end up burning the pithand not heat treating the power fibers. Another thing you will notice as you start splitting and planing, isthatthe heat treated splines are easier to work, the plane blades staysharp longer, and it seems to me that I have less trouble with liftsand chips at the nodes from what I read from other people complainingabout the trouble they have with nodes. I also heat and press the nodes,so this may also help. I also recall that you used Excel polyurethane glue for a rod. Are you satisfied using that adhesive rather than the others that we allnormallyuse? Excel glue is a very strong extremely waterproof glue.It has a very long working time, listed as 20 to 30 min.but a lot longer than that if you chill it in a refrigeratorbefore use.It fills in gaps, which is good if the gap is hidden, badin the way it fills in the gap. This glue, as it is hardeningforms bubbles internally, giving it a frothy appearance.Not bad if the space it is filling is not seen, but unsightlyif the gap is seen, such as between cork layers in thehandle, between the handle and reel seat, etc. Also,you have to watch the rod as the glue is hardeningbecause it will seep out from between the joints. Thisdidn't happen when gluing the splines because thepressure from the binding cord, but in assembling thehandle and reel seat I was constantly wiping off dripsas the glue expanded and leaked out of the joints. At first I thought this glue would be great for finishingguide wraps, but as I saw how it frothed up as it dried,I rejected that idea. I do like the idea of if the are any gaps under the handleand reel seat, (shouldn't be if I fitted them perfectly, butyou know how that goes), they are filled by the glue as itdries. I think Excel is better than Titebond II for gluing splines, andif you can take the time to wipe drips off of your handle andreel seat for the first two hours, then it is good for gluinghandles and reel seats. But other than being a one partglue instead of having to mix it, I don't think it's any betterthan a long setting epoxy. One thing I have been thinking about though, is if I made ahollow rod, and filled the hollow with this glue, as it hardenedand frothed up it would be almost like a foam core, very light,and very strong. on the top surface and makes it very hard to squeeze it out thenext time you use it. And use latex gloves when handling Excel.It bonds real well to skin. If you don't use gloves you will haveglue spots on your hands for a week. Darryl Hayashida from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 12 10:51:59 1996 Subject: Re: Finishes boundary=Boundary-2343415-0-0 --Boundary-2343415-0-0 I would like to pass along a simple draw method to finish a blank-with or without ferrules installed. I'll leave out the obvious details.Take a 35mm film container and drill or punch a hole in the bottomlarge enough for the blank to pass through. Next, cut the finger off a latexglove, stretch it slightly, then use a hot paper clip or needle and poke ahole in the tip of the latex. Stretch the latex over the film cup with thehole somewhat centered over the hole in the cup. Slide the blank up throughthe bottom of the cup and hang the blank from the ceiling or whatever. Warmup your varnish or urethane container in a pan of hot water then spoon thevarnish into the film cup and slowly draw it down the blank. Be sure to fillthe cup about 3/4 full to avoid having the latex stretch above the level ofthe varnish as you draw it down. Throw away the excess varnish and reseal thecontainer while still warm. A quart goes a long way with this method.Bill Waara has a mechanized draw chamber he designed and built whichallows two sections to be done at the same time. Ask him about it at the TBBQ. John Long --Boundary-2343415-0-0 Subject: Finishes Thanks to everyone for the help on finishes. I have decided to stick withTung oil for the first rod, with some reservations to the waterproofness.As always the group is a great help. I hope I am not boring any one withsubjects already covered. Thanks again. Jim --Boundary-2343415-0-0-- from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 12 15:21:41 1996 Subject: Re[2]: Finishes John, This sounds like a really slick idea, however I can not get the latexfinger part stright in my mind. You have the film cup with the largeopen end up and the bottom with the hole down. Now where and how doesthe latex come into play? Perhaps I do need the details. I reallywould like to put this method in my files, just in case. Thanks, Jim B. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________Subject: Re: FinishesAuthor: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet-Mail --Boundary-2343415-0-0 I would like to pass along a simple draw method to finish a blank-with or without ferrules installed. I'll leave out the obvious details.Take a 35mm film container and drill or punch a hole in the bottomlarge enough for the blank to pass through. Next, cut the finger off a latexglove, stretch it slightly, then use a hot paper clip or needle and poke ahole in the tip of the latex. Stretch the latex over the film cup with thehole somewhat centered over the hole in the cup. Slide the blank up throughthe bottom of the cup and hang the blank from the ceiling or whatever. Warmup your varnish or urethane container in a pan of hot water then spoon thevarnish into the film cup and slowly draw it down the blank. Be sure to fillthe cup about 3/4 full to avoid having the latex stretch above the level ofthe varnish as you draw it down. Throw away the excess varnish and reseal thecontainer while still warm. A quart goes a long way with this method.Bill Waara has a mechanized draw chamber he designed and built whichallows two sections to be done at the same time. Ask him about it at the TBBQ. John Long --Boundary-2343415-0-0 Subject: Finishes Thanks to everyone for the help on finishes. I have decided to stick withTung oil for the first rod, with some reservations to the waterproofness.As always the group is a great help. I hope I am not boring any one withsubjects already covered. Thanks again. Jim --Boundary-2343415-0-0-- from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 12 16:59:13 1996 Subject: final dimensions I would be grateful if someone could give some guidance on the followingquestion(s): I am having difficulty maintaining identical dimensions on all sides at agiven station. I can get them to within about .003, but in some cases one sideis right on or just below the target dimension while the other side is as muchas .005 too large. How much bearing do the dimensions of the non-enamel sideshave on the final action? (I understand of course that all three dimensionsshould be identical.) Or to rephrase the question: is the enamel dimension anymore important than the other two? The blade on my scraper turns a burr almost immediately, even though Iremove it as the final process of sharpening (by turning it over and polishingit side to side a couple of times before polishing the edge again--this I dothree of four times). Is this common or have I just not yet learned how tosharpen properly? Thanks for your helpMark Freed (freedmar@pilot.msu.edu) from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 12 20:04:14 1996 Subject: Re: Need Phone No. and Address For Martin Keane I noticed your post re: Greenhearts, this is not Marty's specialty. He canbe reached at 413-229-7988 P.O. Box 288, Ashley Falls Mass 01222 Does anyone have the phone number and address for Martin J. Keane ofClassic Fine Tackle, in Massacheusetts?? Any assistance would be appreciated. Thanks.Ian ScottWishbone Custom Rods wishbone@headwaters.comhttp://credit.headwaters.com/wishbone ********************************************************************************************* "The butterfly counts not months but moments,and has time enough." Rabindranath TagoreFireflies, 1928 ----------------------------------------------------James Bond, Toronto, Canada - FAX 416-444-4196 Fledgling cane rod builder, fly tyer and collectorof modern collectable angling books. I don't fishenough, but who does? "On the road to Mandalay,Where the flyin' fishes play,An' the dawn comes up like thunder outer China'crost the Bay!" Rudyard Kipling 1865-1936---------------------------------------------------- from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 12 22:30:34 1996 Subject: Re: final dimensions Boy, I sure hope someone can answer this question for you. I have made 4 rodsnow and none of mine have been as close as I would have liked. Personally, Ithink that more practice (spelled more rods built) will cure all of my splineerrors. At this point I am not as concerned with having a perfect splinedimention as I am having good glue lines and a taper that performs as it should.I have been able to get most of my spline dimensions down to your similartolerances. Each rod has been a little easier, that is why I think that when Iget maybe 6 more rods done I will be getting fairly good at holding tolerances.If someone has a "cure" for this problem then I am all ears also. The bestexplanation of correcting dimensional errors, in fact the only one I have readincluding Waynes' book and Garrisons book, was written by Dawn Holbrook. The keyis that you need to discover the error when you still have some room to correctit. I would have an immpossible time explaining it but I would be happy to faxthe pertinent pages to you if you like. I could probably also stuffit and sendit as an encloser in e-mail on my Mac if you could open it back up.Martin from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 12 22:49:13 1996 Subject: Re: TBBBQ-II In a message dated 96-06-12 00:33:27 EDT, you write: If this is alright with Wayne, how about when you get into town,head over to the 'clubhouse'. Seems like as good a meeting spotas any. Any other suggestions... Mike - itchin' to get goin' - Biondo Where is the club house? Thanks,RT from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 12 23:04:55 1996 Subject: Re: TBBBQ-II From: Fallcreek9@aol.comIf this is alright with Wayne, how about when you get into town,head over to the 'clubhouse'. Seems like as good a meeting spotas any. Any other suggestions... Mike - itchin' to get goin' - Biondo Where is the club house? Thanks,RT Right across the street (Ingham) from the Fly Factory..... from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 13 06:44:42 1996 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Finishes boundary=Boundary-2349425-0-0 --Boundary-2349425-0-0 Jim,The latex is stretched over the end with the hole drilled in it thenthe rod blank is passed through both the latex and the cup. The latex keepsthe varnish in the cup as you draw the cup down the blank. It is actuallyjust the opposite of dipping a rod and drawing it out of the varnish. You canhave numerous cups set up and do a two tip rod in a short period of time.Hope this answers your questions. John --Boundary-2349425-0-0 Subject: Re[2]: Finishes John, This sounds like a really slick idea, however I can not get the latexfinger part stright in my mind. You have the film cup with the largeopen end up and the bottom with the hole down. Now where and how doesthe latex come into play? Perhaps I do need the details. I reallywould like to put this method in my files, just in case. Thanks, Jim B. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________Subject: Re: FinishesAuthor: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet-Mail --Boundary-2343415-0-0 I would like to pass along a simple draw method to finish a blank-with or without ferrules installed. I'll leave out the obvious details.Take a 35mm film container and drill or punch a hole in the bottomlarge enough for the blank to pass through. Next, cut the finger off a latexglove, stretch it slightly, then use a hot paper clip or needle and poke ahole in the tip of the latex. Stretch the latex over the film cup with thehole somewhat centered over the hole in the cup. Slide the blank up throughthe bottom of the cup and hang the blank from the ceiling or whatever. Warmup your varnish or urethane container in a pan of hot water then spoon thevarnish into the film cup and slowly draw it down the blank. Be sure to fillthe cup about 3/4 full to avoid having the latex stretch above the level ofthe varnish as you draw it down. Throw away the excess varnish and reseal thecontainer while still warm. A quart goes a long way with this method.Bill Waara has a mechanized draw chamber he designed and built whichallows two sections to be done at the same time. Ask him about it at the TBBQ. John Long --Boundary-2343415-0-0 Subject: Finishes Thanks to everyone for the help on finishes. I have decided to stick withTung oil for the first rod, with some reservations to the waterproofness.As always the group is a great help. I hope I am not boring any one withsubjects already covered. Thanks again. Jim --Boundary-2343415-0-0-- --Boundary-2349425-0-0-- from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 13 09:48:25 1996 Subject: TBBBQ-II Agenda Here's the agenda (taken directly from Ron Barch's confirmationletter that I received) for the TBBBQ-II. Just in case anyonestill trying to decide on whether or not to attend... :-) Friday-10:00-10:30 Registration along with meeting old friends and makingnew ones.10:30-11:30 Mr. Harold Demarest and the current status ofArundinaria amabilis11:30-12:00 Questions/Discussions/Open ForumLunch Break1:00-3:00 Hands On Sessions. Experienced Rodmakers will be workingon various stages of the cane rodmaking processs. If youare a beginner here is you chance to learn.3:00-4:00 Casting Session on the banks of the Ausable Saturday10:00-11:00 Wayne Cattanach talks on Taper Design.11:00-12:00 Round Table Discussion. Bring your questions/opinions/concerns.Lunch Break1:00-3:00 Hands On Sessions3:00-4:00 Casting Sessions5:00-?!?!? Sporting Casts & Trout Bum Barbecue See ya there... Mike - T minus 6 days, and counting - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 13 09:55:44 1996 Subject: Re: final dimensions At 17:48 6/12/96 -0400, you wrote: I would be grateful if someone could give some guidance on the followingquestion(s): I am having difficulty maintaining identical dimensions on all sides at agiven station. I can get them to within about .003, but in some cases one sideis right on or just below the target dimension while the other side is as muchas .005 too large. How much bearing do the dimensions of the non-enamel sideshave on the final action? (I understand of course that all three dimensionsshould be identical.) Or to rephrase the question: is the enamel dimension anymore important than the other two? The blade on my scraper turns a burr almost immediately, even though Iremove it as the final process of sharpening (by turning it over and polishingit side to side a couple of times before polishing the edge again--this I dothree of four times). Is this common or have I just not yet learned how tosharpen properly? Thanks for your helpMark Freed (freedmar@pilot.msu.edu) Mark,I don't know what kind of scraper you are using, but a true scraper bladewill have a burr on the edge. After a keen edge is put on the blade a smallburr is put on it by burnishing the edge (you can buy burnishers for thispurpose). The reason for burnishing is to form a small hook on the bladeedge. It is this small hook that actually does the scraping. Hope thishelps.Jim from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 13 10:23:03 1996 Subject: Re: final dimensions Mark, There maybe a couple of things that you could investigate or try.1] Are your forms truly flat? Check out them with an engineers square.2] Are you tending to twist your plane lower on one side than the other.3] Are your splines truly flat on the enamel side. This one is critcal. Inow can build just about a dimensionally perfect rod only because I finallyconvinced myself to etting the enamel side completely flat. I use a backlighted arrangement to make sure that the spline is flat. If you want more on the backlighted device, give me a shout. Regards, Don I would be grateful if someone could give some guidance on the followingquestion(s): I am having difficulty maintaining identical dimensions on all sides at agiven station. I can get them to within about .003, but in some cases one sideis right on or just below the target dimension while the other side is as muchas .005 too large. How much bearing do the dimensions of the non-enamel sideshave on the final action? (I understand of course that all three dimensionsshould be identical.) Or to rephrase the question: is the enamel dimension anymore important than the other two? The blade on my scraper turns a burr almost immediately, even though Iremove it as the final process of sharpening (by turning it over and polishingit side to side a couple of times before polishing the edge again--this I dothree of four times). Is this common or have I just not yet learned how tosharpen properly? Thanks for your helpMark Freed (freedmar@pilot.msu.edu) from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 13 11:05:05 1996 Subject: ...no subject... If you are only refinishing a rod periodically and want a simple dip tubethat doesn't require construction, "Archery Past" of Bend, Oregon has aplastic molded dip tube that is about 1 1/2" in diameter except at the topwhere it has a larger reservoir. A screw on lid allows you to leave thevarnish in the tube almost indefinitely as long as you create a good sealwhen you close the lid. The only problem with the dip tube is that it isn'talways long enough to accomadate the longer rod sections. In this case Iusually dip the tip section to about 8-10" deep and then withdraw it and turnit over and then do a full dip the other direction. I then suspend the rodsection from the ceiling or lean it at a high incline against a wall,allowing it to finish dripping and dry. Obviously the dip tube was designed about 36" tall. Most of the rods I refinish are able to be dipped withoutthe double method described above. The tube cost me about $10.00 and wasactually developed by "Archery Past" using a molding cast machine of somesort built especially for this product. If anyone is interested I can findthe address etc. and post it. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 13 13:29:11 1996 Subject: Re: TBBBQ-II Agenda John - a touch over .01% - Long seez... Back to the discussion about getting together Thurs. night. If theclubhouse gets too crowded, an alternative might be to gather atShoppenoggon's (sp) Hotel bar. It is very spacious with a generally quietatmosphere, seldom crowded and is within staggering distance of the FlyFactory so one can do a .01 and not end up in jail. They have reasonablypriced rooms also. I've had a couple other suggestions for possible meeting-up spots also.Never having been to Grayling before, I am not familiar with the local'watering holes'. I suggested the 'Clubhouse' figuring that anyonewalking into it could pretty safely assume that anyone there was insome way connected to the TBBBQ. Possibly not so with Shoppenoggon'sor Spikes. If all goes well, I am planning on rolling into town around 4-5pm. I'lltry the 'Clubhouse' first, and then all the 'watering holes' 'withinstaggering distance of the Fly Factory' until I find someone. Just sortof play it by ear I guess. I'll be driving a black Jeep wrangler with Missouri plates. If anyonesees me driving around with that 'I don't have a clue' look on my face,please flag me down. The rescue will be much appreciated!!! :-) Mike - not a clue - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 13 21:11:57 1996 Subject: Re: final dimensions In a message dated 96-06-13 11:15:50 EDT, you write: If you want more on the backlighted device, give me a shout. Regards, Don Don: Don't keep us all in suspense - please put somthing out about this. Thanks,R Tyree from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 13 21:12:05 1996 Subject: Re: TBBBQ-II In a message dated 96-06-13 18:09:56 EDT, you write: *_________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ //|| __________________________________________________||/\/ \ > > > Rich:Don't know how long from Chicago to Grayling, but will award you a beer atthe bash for the best art on the list. See you there,RTyree from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 14 00:44:00 1996 Subject: Re: TBBBQ-II The last time I went to Chicago it took about 3 hours - Grayling (TheFly Factory) is 156 miles from my house - normally 2 1/2 hours - But becauseyou are traveling East in to a different Time (and a different enviromental)Zone - you will see a 6 1/2 hour drive coming up and 4 1/2 hours going home.That extra hour many prove to be appreciated for catching up on sleep Sundaypm. The ClubhouseThe clubhouse is 24 x 40 foot with a couple of blocked off office area -a kitchenette - bathroom and a mechanical room. Last year there were about 40who fit into it for presentations. Laying prone a body takes up about 12square feet. from this information I would say that there would be room forabout 20 - 25 prone bodies. Other ConfusionSome of us will be fishing thursday night and will show up sometime atthe clubhouse leaving about 6 - 7 and returning about 10 - midnight. This iswhere the sign board will be helpful. For those coming from large cities -Grayling is only about 3 miles square with a concentrated business district.Spike's is the closest 'watering hole' and is visible (usually) from theclubhouse - The hotel John reffered to is about 3 blocks and involves turninga corner from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 14 02:54:46 1996 Subject: Flat Enamel Sides Don, I was interested in reading your post regarding making sure the enamel sideof the spline is flat. I'm a little confused, though. It sounds as though you're saying that the enamel side should be flat priorto planning the strip, is that correct? If so, does that mean that youremove the enamel and flatten the strip before you plane it? If so, how doyou do it? I always remove the enamel when I remove the string, and dried glue aftergluing up the strips. Of course the strip will have a slight curve on theenamel side depending upon the diameter of the culm. I flatten this afterremoving the enamel, and during the final dressing of the blank. I find that I have no difficulty in maintaining my 60 degree angles, andproducing equalateral triangles using my method, but I am certainlyinterested in hearing about how you do it. There are always new things to learn. Many thanks My best, Dave EngerbretsonMoscow, Idaho=================================================================dengerbr@moscow.comhttp://www.finefishing.com/FINEFISH/AUTHORS/ENGERBR/TITELINE.STM================================================================= Dave EngerbretsonMoscow, Idaho=================================================================dengerbr@moscow.comhttp://www.finefishing.com/FINEFISH/AUTHORS/ENGERBR/TITELINE.STM================================================================= from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 14 06:42:18 1996 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Karl Hube wrote: Jonathan.................Any choices on brands of oil ? I noticed smallbottled quantities in the finiishing section of the local home- improvementcenter.....about right for small projects. Any problem with varnished windings in the guides bonding to the rod ? Karl Hube I have used Garret Wade Tung Oil. It has worked well for me and a little goes a longway. It comes in a quart, which will last me years.As far as the wraps, I use a tung oil based varnish. My rods are only a few yearsold but many have recieved hard service and the wraps have not been a problem. Jonathan Clarke from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 14 08:31:36 1996 Subject: Re: TBBBQ-II Does anyone know how long ti takes to drive from Chicago to Grayling?ThanksRich,The following is the (computed) fastest way: 1 12:00 AM 0.0 DEPART Chicago (IL) on the I94 5 miles E1 12:07 AM 4.7 Turn off onto I90 30 miles E Gary1 12:44 AM 34.8 At Portage, IN, turn off onto I94 65 miles E Portage1 1:45 AM 100 Go onto I196 76 miles N Wyoming1 2:55 AM 176 At Grand Rapids, MI, turn off onto US131 102 miles N ComstockPark1 4:29 AM 278 At Cadillac, MI, turn off onto SR55 10 miles E1 4:41 AM 288 Turn left onto SR66 6 miles N Lake City1 4:48 AM 294 At Lake City, MI, turn right onto SR55 21 miles E1 5:13 AM 315 Turn left onto US27 20 miles N1 5:31 AM 334 Turn off onto I75 6 miles N1 5:37 AM 340 Take the SR72 1 mile W1 5:38 AM 342 Take the Local road 1 mile1 5:40 AM 342 ARRIVE Grayling (MI) and this is the (computed) preferred route: 1 12:00 AM 0.0 DEPART Chicago (IL) on the I94 5 miles E1 12:07 AM 4.7 Turn off onto I90 30 miles E Gary1 12:44 AM 34.8 At Portage, IN, turn off onto I94 140 miles E Portage1 2:53 AM 174 At Marshall, MI, turn off onto I69 34 miles N Charlotte1 3:24 AM 208 Turn off onto I96 10 miles W Grand Rapids1 3:33 AM 218 Turn off onto I69 8 miles N Flint1 3:41 AM 226 Turn off onto US27 140 miles N1 5:59 AM 366 Turn off onto I75 6 miles N1 6:04 AM 372 Take the SR72 1 mile W1 6:06 AM 373 Take the Local road 1 mile1 6:08 AM 374 ARRIVE Grayling (MI) Best regards,Reed from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 14 09:08:08 1996 Subject: Re: Hex not equal? In a message dated 96-06-10 16:54:42 EDT, you write: You are right about measurements - not just thickness - angles of thedangle are known not to be exactly 60 degrees. Another factor is unequalsanding when removing glue and final finish. So this all goes to show youthat it is hand crafted vice a machined clone. Each rod has an individualpersonality and the "not equal" measurements contribute to it. Chris:You are correct 'imho'. With glass and graphite, the statement "all elsebeing equal" probably can apply - but I think not with bamboo. Tis theflavor of our gentle art. Regards and look forward to seeing you at the bash,RTyree from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 14 09:09:16 1996 Subject: Re: Looking for cured bamboo In a message dated 96-06-10 09:10:32 EDT, you write: I can't see any reason that bamboo has to be cured before using. We heattreat the cane, usually in an oven, so what is the need or advantage tohavingaged cane that has been laying around for a few years "drying"? Commentsanyone? John Long John:Man, you really bring up an interesting area of thought. The more seen ofthis list, the more realized how little I really KNOW about bamboo. Maybethats the beauty of it, that we may never. After all, we don't stamp themout with a cookie cutter. Things like to temper or not, large rods, hollowbuilding with all its variables, wet straightening, and so on should hold ourattention for decades to come. Regards,RTyree from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 14 10:49:26 1996 Subject: TBBBQ Agenda Update I've been in contact with Steve Southard of The Fly Factory, whois the official host of TBBBQ. He was kind enough to forward to mea couple additional activities going on over the course of the weekend. going on over the course of the weekend with shared activities.There is the rodmakers meeting organized by _The Planing Form_, and thenthere's a Compuserve Flyfishing Forum gathering, which is actually theTrout Bum Barbeque (TBBBQ). The following is from Steve... from 102130.461@CompuServe.COM Fri Jun 14 00:43:08 1996From: "Steve W. Southard" Subject: Re: TBBBQ-II Agenda Mike, Another thought re: meeting place Thursday; included is the spaghetti dinner @ Victor Edwards' [co-host w/me ofthe TBBBQ] house on Thursday evening. Don't know how many of y'all[rod builders] are "paid" for the TBBBQ Saturday, or if Ron [or anyone]communicated that it included the spaghetti dinner on Thursday [true toform of this TBBBQ thing not being 'over-organzied']. Here is the complete TBBBQ schedule [for paid Saturday evening- TBBBQattendees]: TBBBQ SCHEDULE OF EVENTS Wednesday - 6 P.M. - no host, pay your own tab ice-breaker at Spike's Thursday - 5 P.M. - Friar Don's Pasta pig-out at Victor's house[ from town, go east on North Down River Road; turn right {south} on Glenn,the last street before the I-75 overpass; down Glenn to the end and followaround the right hand curve onto Orbit Drive; Victor & Kathy's drive isthe first paved driveway on the left after you make the right turn ontoOrbit Drive] Friday - on your own, get ready for Saturday Saturday - 6 P.M. - 2nd annual Trout Bum Bar-B-Q & Sporting Flies Please note, the above reference to Friday is for the Compuserve folks,as listed in the rodmakers agenda that was posted yesterday, the Rodmakershave a pretty full day lined on Friday with meetings and demonstrations. Also in light of the above, how about if we just make the Pasta Pig-Outour meeting place for Thursday evening. The only downside would be forthose who did not sign up for the Saturday night dinner. I wouldimagine most have signed up dinner though. Comments... Mike - PastaBoy - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 14 14:51:24 1996 Subject: More TBBBQ stuff Here's a little more background on the TBBBQ, and some of the folkswhose hard work went into planning the barbeque... Mike - BarbequeBoy- BiondoSt. Louis, Mo =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= A word of explanation about this very special event: During the third week of June, 1995, "The Fly Factory" hosted an annualgathering of cane rod builders organized under the auspices of The Planing Form- a cane rod newsletter. My friend Victor Edwards became active on the Compuserve fly-fishingonline forum while serving his farewell tour for Uncle Sam in Germany.Victor had invited some of his Compuserve fly-fish'n friends to visitthe AuSable in the spring of '95, following his return from Germany.It turned out to be the same weekend as the cane rod gathering. Upon seeing the luckily coincidental timing, Victor suggested that we geteveryone together during the weekend for burgers; that the diverse groupwould make for an interesting evening. After adding a few friends to theinvite list, the burger cookout for a few dozen became a pig roast under atent for 100+. As Victor & I drove 3 hours back to Grayling one weekend late lastwinter, straining our creative thinking muscles, the name"Trout Bum Bar-B-Q" hit me [I'm big on alliteration and bad puns]. forum by its acronym: TBBBQ II] is a by-invitation-only, non-profit barbecueand associated unplanned adventures for trout bums and of trout bums[those who can't stand a little good natured roasting may wish to pass]. Our objective is to bring together interesting folks, make new friends,go fishin' and have some fun. Some Trout Bums begin arriving as much as a week ahead of Saturdaynight's actual BBQ; there is a lot of "free-style" fishing and trout bumcamaraderie during the week leading up to Saturday's pig roast and sportingflies competition. Detailed planning and organization are NOT emphasized. A number of friends support the TBBBQ effort in a variety of ways. the cartoons that grace this invitation. The first TBBBQ was nearly a break-even event. Should we manage to comeout a few bucks ahead, the money will be donated to the AuSable RiverRestoration Committee. TBBBQ is co-sponsored by The Fly Factory [my wife Cecilia & I] & Spike'sKeg O'Nails [Victor & Kathy Edwards]. Hope to see you there!! Steve Southard Some TBBBQ "business": * TBBBQ attendance is limited to 150 to keep it fun & friendly [and tokeep the pig roast logistics manageable]. First come, first serve.Those who wait to buy their TBBBQ ticket may be disappointed! * TBBBQ tickets cost $30, purchased in advance-only please and include aTBBBQ T-shirt, the all-you-can-eat pig roast and participation in theAuSable Sporting Flies Competition. * Any profit from TBBBQ will be donated to the AuSable River RestorationCommittee. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 14 16:16:02 1996 Subject: Re: More TBBBQ stuff Where do I send my money for a ticket to the pig roast? Rich Jezioro *_________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ //|| __________________________________________________||/\/ \ > > > from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 14 16:34:33 1996 Subject: Re: More TBBBQ stuff The pig roast must have sounded really good beacuse Rich seez... :-) Where do I send my money for a ticket to the pig roast? I would first contact Ron Barch (616) 945-2329 since he was the onewe sent our money into originally. In addition to Ron, you might want to contact the TBBBQ hosts,Steve Southard of The Fly Factory, (517) 348-5844, or Vic Edwardsof Spike's (517) 348-8956. Mike - I'm gettin' hungry - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 14 21:38:24 1996 Subject: Shell Epon Epoxy To all: I had been looking for an alternative to Nyatex epoxy because the heat cure phaseused by this glue can and did cause a failure in splice joint when using Titebond-II orother like glue when making splices for nodeless rods. This is not a problem if youuse Urac as a primary glue.As a result I have tried Shell Epon Epoxy that was reccomended by Bill Fink who hasused it for many years with good results and have reported it in the Planing Form. It is alsoknown as "Dinasouar Glue" by Bill. I am passing this info along for others that may want toevaluate it or try it. I did and it worked just fine. Here is a comparison with Nyatex (whichI used previously).- Shell Epon has a thicker consistancy than Nyatex. It is mixed one to one. 10 gramsof each will yield enough for each section. This is not a critical mix.- It is spread easily with a toothbrush.- Glued strips can be handled easier than with Nyatex. Due to the thickerconsistancy, the masking tape doesn't become as moist fall off and still sticks well to thestrips. This is a bonus.- Each glue runs through the binder equally easy.- As with Nyatex it cleans up easily with White Vinegar.- Each gives adequate handling time to straighten strips prior to hanging to dry.- The Shell was dry in 24 hours - Although, I did not get to remove the glue for 48hours due to "honey do's".- After hitting half hitches with a mill bastard file I could pull the binding cordoff of the blank with no problem. This is a B I G plus over Nyatex - which you have to file /sand off. Much time and work saved here.- I easily scraped and sanded the Blank.- The seams and color were as good as Nyatex. Over all, I am switching to this glue because it ends up easier to use with as goodresults - using no heat cure. This is just another glue alternative for rodmakers. I ordered mine through Miller - Stephenson Chemical Co. (they repackage Shellproducts). They ask for a company name so give them - (Your name) rod company - to save ahassle if you don't have a business lic. They ask for no more info than that. Phone nrs: Connecticut (203) 743-4447Califoria (818) 896-4714Illinois (708) 966-2022Canada (416) 675-3204 Tech info: 1-800-992-2424 / Canada call 800-323-4621 (8 - 4 Eastern Time Product info: Epon Resin : 828 Qt. price $19.50Epi-Cure 3140 Curing Agent Qt. price $20.75Shipping was $3.65 Bill Fink has been using his last batch for 6 years - so good shelf life. He uses it are things on the moon held together by this epoxy. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 14 21:39:32 1996 Subject: Re: Looking for cured bamboo Richard Wait until you hear Harold Demarest's talk on bamboo at Grayling.His talk has been up dated a bit and has some really good insights into bamboo.The "real" aging issue is how long you wait for bamboo to mature before youcut it. This is one of his quality control issues with the Chinese. Bamboogrows to full height in the first year. You cannot cut it. You must wait anumber of years for it to "season". Ever wonder why a nice thick piece ofcane doesn't have a lot of power fibers?? This is the reason.I agree with John - You can use it right away if you heat treat orshould I say kiln dry?!. The only aging is necessary if you want blonde rods,then you need the sun to do its trick for a few weeks. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 14 22:26:49 1996 Subject: TBBBQ-II Yes! Grayling bound on Thursday or Friday morning. ( from Detroit)Been practicing slapping on DEET with one hand while tying large flies onin the dark.Here's hoping for another 20 by 20!--Larry Blan from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 14 23:44:15 1996 Subject: Re: Flat Enamel Sides Hi Dave,The technique you describe is one of the more common variations in methodthat was shunned as 'innaccurate' when 'THE BOOK' came out. Nevertheless itworks fine as it seems that you have already proven. The slight curvature ofthe spline was never a problem for me and the glue residue came off a bitbetter. The major advantage that I found was that no power fibers weresacrificed.A good example of a sensible technique that was sacrificed.A.J.Thramer from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Jun 16 08:47:22 1996 Subject: Backlight Device To All, Several persons asked off list what I meant about a backlight device and whydo I use it. Rationale: All cane strips are not created equal and flat. Not only are nodes aproblem, but occasionally some areas of a culm have depressions between thenodes that are barely discernible by the naked eye. If the cane is not trulyflat particularly in the butt sections, differences in flat to flatdimensions will crop up. This is true for both strips that are planed tofinal with or without the rind removed although it has been my experiencethat "rind on" is somewhat move difficult to get a "0" tolerance flat toflat dimension. The reason, I expect, is due to the "rocking" of the stripwithin the form while planing. There is an upside though, as memtionedbefore, about leaving the rind on - - namely easier glue removal and savingof power fibers.Further, some of the rods I did early on and some of the major manufacturersrods I looked at, when sighted along the shaft against a light showed adistinct wavy appearance. Since I started using this method, my rods nolonger show any waves. Purpose: The strip , rind side down, is placed on a straight edge, held down ( usingyour fingers) where the light can and hopefully cannot be seen between thestrip and the straight edge. The strip is checked every 8" to make surethat no light can be seen. If light is apparent, further straightening ofthe strip is required. Description: The device is composed of 2 pieces of 3/4" plywood about 8"*8"*24" tall. Theplywood pieces form the sides and two 2" plywood pieces 2" wide are used tohold the thing in a rectangle. A 60 W electric bulb is mounted internally onone of the side pieces about halfway up. A shiny surfaced metal (I usealuminum cladding) is mounted to reflect light inside of the rectangle andprotect your eyes from the light. A straight edge ( I used a piece of 3/4"square by 10" key stock) is mounted at eye level. The straight edge has aslot cut 1/8" wide the width of the rectangle to allow light to shine justalong the top edge of the straight edge. I made the thing tall enough so Ididn't have to stoop will using it - hence the 24" height. While straightingcane, the device is located just behind my heat gun and vice on my bench. Hopefully I have described the device in enough detail that you can build itif you wish. I know that the rod strips that I turn out now after using thedevice for the past 6 years are a whole lot better. Regards, Don from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 19 12:46:21 1996 Subject: Activity It's been several days since I've had anny messages come thjrough fromRodmakers. Are you down or all gone to TBBBQ? Fred from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 19 13:22:46 1996 Subject: Re: Activity same thing here.Nothing for a while. On Wed, 19 Jun 1996, Fred Bohls, CFP wrote: It's been several days since I've had anny messages come thjrough fromRodmakers. Are you down or all gone to TBBBQ? Fred from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 19 13:48:23 1996 Subject: Re: Activity same thing here.Nothing for a while. I've posted twice but nothing. Mike Biondo send something regardinglistsev problems. He's no mail because of TBBBQ (lucky stiff). Hesaid it might be up today. Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 19 14:02:52 1996 Subject: Heddon #10 Hello all, Hey, were back up!!! Thanks Mike. Granted everyone's packing for Grayling, I'll ask anyway. I recentlyacquired a Heddon #10. Does anyone have info about these rods. Iwould like to recondition it to original specs, if anyone has them..The finish exhibits what I would call "orange peel", how can I getit smooth with out removing the Heddon name?TIATom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 19 14:20:44 1996 Subject: RODMAKERS Listserver Problems I see that RODMAKERS mail has started to come through again.I sent the attached message out to everyone earlier today, but itappears some folks did not receive it. Looks like we're up andrunning again, the attached message explains why we were down. I will be leaving for Grayling tomorrow morning. If I were goingto be away more than a few days, I would attempt to pass List Ownerduties off to someone else while I was gone. I figure the shorttime I'll be gone the list should be alright. If you have somelist problems, let me know and I'll attend to them Monday evening. Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Hello Everyone, I would imagine everyone is wondering what has happen to theRODMAKERS list. Fear not, you have not been removed from thelist. Please excuse this message if you've recently unsubscribedor you have your list mail set to POSTPONE...I did not have thelastest list of subscriber before the list problems arose. Thecomputer that the list resides on (mail.wustl.edu) has had someserious problems and the list has been down for the past several days. The reason we are off line is because listserver machine suffered ahacker attack last week and the destruction of the system is stillbeing repaired. The damage was due to be repaired yesterday but itlooks like they didn't make it. I would hope they are getting close. I will be away from email from Thursday thru Monday for the bigGrayling shindig. If the listserver is put back online sometimetoday, I will let everyone know. If not, I'm not sure if anannoucement will come from the listserv folks, or not. I supposewe'll just have to hope for the best. I apologize to any of you who might be experiencing severeRODMAKERS list withdrawal!!! :-) Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 19 14:37:18 1996 Subject: Re[2]: Activity Same with me also. I did just receive a message stating that theserver had trouble that will be fixed soon. If nobody else got it letme know anf I will send it along. Jim B. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________Subject: Re: ActivityAuthor: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet-Mail same thing here.Nothing for a while. I've posted twice but nothing. Mike Biondo send something regardinglistsev problems. He's no mail because of TBBBQ (lucky stiff). Hesaid it might be up today. Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 19 14:38:07 1996 Subject: Fwd: RODMAKERS Listserver Problems ---------------------Forwarded message: Hello Everyone, I would imagine everyone is wondering what has happen to theRODMAKERS list. Fear not, you have not been removed from thelist. Please excuse this message if you've recently unsubscribedor you have your list mail set to POSTPONE...I did not have thelastest list of subscriber before the list problems arose. Thecomputer that the list resides on (mail.wustl.edu) has had someserious problems and the list has been down for the past several days. The reason we are off line is because listserver machine suffered ahacker attack last week and the destruction of the system is stillbeing repaired. The damage was due to be repaired yesterday but itlooks like they didn't make it. I would hope they are getting close. I will be away from email from Thursday thru Monday for the bigGrayling shindig. If the listserver is put back online sometimetoday, I will let everyone know. If not, I'm not sure if anannoucement will come from the listserv folks, or not. I supposewe'll just have to hope for the best. I apologize to any of you who might be experiencing severeRODMAKERS list withdrawal!!! :-) Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 19 15:00:25 1996 Subject: Tarnish Remover Can anyone recommend a good tarnish remover for nickle silverferrules etc.? Ian ScottIan ScottWishbone Custom Rods wishbone@headwaters.comhttp://credit.headwaters.com/wishbone ********************************************************************************************* "The butterfly counts not months but moments,and has time enough." Rabindranath TagoreFireflies, 1928 from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 19 15:12:05 1996 Subject: Re: Tarnish Remover At 03:54 PM 6/19/96, you wrote:Can anyone recommend a good tarnish remover for nickle silverferrules etc.? Ian Scott Ian, I've been using a jeweler's cloth to polish nickle-silver. It'snon abrasive and pretty effective. You can pick them up at many jewelrystores for a few dollars.---richard Richard Frankr_frank@foma.wsc.mass.eduWestfield State CollegeWestfield, MA 01086 ******************************************I never get the last word!****************************************** from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 19 15:23:35 1996 Subject: RE: Heddon #10 = I recently=acquired a Heddon #10. Does anyone have info about these rods. I=would like to recondition it to original specs, if anyone has them..=The finish exhibits what I would call "orange peel", how can I get=it smooth with out removing the Heddon name? Tom.Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook -- By Michael Sinclair from our old friend Dick Spurr will be invaluable. I got my copy from Cabela's, and I'm sure it's available from a few otherplaces. Terry KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fla. TKirkpat@CLW.UNISYSGSG.COM from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 19 20:22:34 1996 Subject: re: Heddon #10 I'm in the middle of restoring a Heddon #10 as well. I wanted to restoremine to original also, except I'm using new and larger guides so I can fishit. The problem I ran into is locating the black\marroon varigated silkwhich is what was on the original rods. I ended up settling for ablack\white varigated silk. I tried using markers to die the white part ofthe thread, but was never satisfied enough with the outcome to subject therod to it. I know some listserv members may have more experience using diesand may be able to help us both out, although I'm far enough in the wrappingprocess that I'll probably stick with the black\white. Sinclair's bookindicates the rod model #10 was call a "Blue Water" and the best way todetermine the age is by the writing on the butt section. Unfortunately I'mat work, without the book, so I can't give you better details rightnow.....sorry. E-mail me direct if you don't have the book and want moredetails and I'll gladly provide 'em. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 19 20:38:36 1996 Subject: Re: Tarnish Remover At 03:48 PM 6/19/96 +0000, you wrote:Can anyone recommend a good tarnish remover for nickle silverferrules etc.? Ian ScottIan ScottWishbone Custom Rods wishbone@headwaters.comhttp://credit.headwaters.com/wishbone ********************************************************************************************* "The butterfly counts not months but moments,and has time enough." Rabindranath TagoreFireflies, 1928 I recently used plain old Johnsons wax and 0000 steel wool with pretty goodresults on an old W&M Granger reel seat. A little "BoeShield"(a drylubricant) loosened up the threads on the seat and it works swell now thoughformer owner had been struggling with it for some time.Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state.:Tom McGuane from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 19 20:38:47 1996 Subject: Re: Heddon #10 At 02:27 PM 6/19/96 EST5EDT, you wrote:Hello all, Hey, were back up!!! Thanks Mike. Granted everyone's packing for Grayling, I'll ask anyway. I recentlyacquired a Heddon #10. Does anyone have info about these rods. Iwould like to recondition it to original specs, if anyone has them..The finish exhibits what I would call "orange peel", how can I getit smooth with out removing the Heddon name?TIATom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson Look for Sinclairs book on Rod Restoration, available from Centennial sales.Has all the info you need....e-mail me if you can't access a copy.Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state.:Tom McGuane from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 20 06:32:27 1996 Subject: Re: Heddon #10 Look for Sinclairs book on Rod Restoration, available from Centennial sales.Has all the info you need....e-mail me if you can't access a copy.Mike in PDX Thanks, I'll do that. Also, what is a fair price for these rods?? Ipaid $50.00. Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 20 07:58:36 1996 Subject: moisture re-entry I read in Cattanach's book that moisture re-entry after heat treating canbe a problem. My splines are currently sitting in a room that goes between 80%and 90%. There's probably moisture re-entry going on here. How much of a problem is this, and is it a problem of dimensional stabilityor changes in the action of the finished rod? Also: is there some way to takethe moisture safely out again? How about putting it in an environment that'sdry and not too hot--say 100 degrees and low humidity? SO: do I worry about this and if so, what remedies are there? thanks in advance, Mark Freed(freedmar@pilot.msu.edu) from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 20 08:08:33 1996 Subject: wax Has anyone used Future acrylic floor wax on rods? I ask this becausePlastic Model builders use it on the clear canopies of model aircraft. Itdries extremely hard and with a very nice shine. Terry KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fla. TKirkpat@CLW.UNISYSGSG.COM from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 20 08:15:01 1996 Subject: Re: Heddon #10 => Look for Sinclairs book on Rod Restoration, available from Centennialsales.=> Has all the info you need....e-mail me if you can't access a copy.=> Mike in PDX=Thanks, I'll do that. Also, what is a fair price for these rods?? I=paid $50.00.=Tom Ausfeld If you've got to re-work it, that's a ball park figure. Maybe a little low.If it's in good shape now, but you just want to re-do a few things, thenyou got a deal... Terry KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fla. TKirkpat@CLW.UNISYSGSG.COM from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 20 10:46:26 1996 Subject: Re: Heddon #10 The two tone black /red thread might be available from Belviordale, which isin the Philadelphia area. I no longer have their address and can't be of morehelp. I restored a similar rod some years ago and had sucess dyeingblack/white with Veniard red dye. I ran the thread through a dye bath andonto a fly line dryer. The results were very good. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 20 10:46:53 1996 Subject: Re: moisture re-entry I would be very concerned with storing splines, or a finished rod in a roomwith this kind of humidity. There will be moisture re-entry, the rod will getslower and there may be some dimensional change as well. A slightly elevatedtemperature will do no harm,and will speed the drying process, but is notnecessary. You do need to find a way to lower the humidity. The best thingyou can do for a rod,or any other wooden structure is to store it in a stableenviornment, without big swings in humidity or temperature. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 20 12:11:45 1996 Subject: Re: moisture re-entry ----------=From: owner-rodmakers =Subject: Re: moisture re-entry=Date: Thursday, June 20, 1996 11:37AM==>==I would be very concerned with storing splines, or a finished rod in a room=with this kind of humidity. There will be moisture re-entry, the rod willget=slower and there may be some dimensional change as well. A slightlyelevated=temperature will do no harm,and will speed the drying process, but is not=necessary. You do need to find a way to lower the humidity. The best thing=you can do for a rod,or any other wooden structure is to store it in astable=enviornment, without big swings in humidity or temperature. Here in Florida, humidity of 80-90% is the norm. I store my Cain rods in abedroom closet where I "Hope" the humidity is a little lower. However,every time I take them out I'm using them in the humid weather. I waswondering about a chemical agent to keep them dry. Any ideas? Terry KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fla. TKirkpat@CLW.UNISYSGSG.COM from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 20 14:38:00 1996 Subject: dip tubes Just wondering if anyone has had any experience with using copper tubing tohold P&L #62 varnish for dipping rod sections? My main question is ifthere is any reaction between the varnish and the tube? Would appreciateany imput on this subject. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 24 12:41:46 1996 Subject: Re: moisture re-entry A method of storing strips I use is to place the strips in the plastic bagthat covers rod cases. After placing strips in the bag you can store them inthe rod tube. Jon Parker from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 24 12:41:47 1996 Subject: Re: moisture re-entry There are chemicals which will lower the moisture content of the airaround them, similar to silical gel. They are called desicants. If youmake a tube which is fairly air tight, and dry your rod well beforedropping it in the tube, you should be able to keep the humidity very lowin the tube. you can heat most desicants to reactivate them once full ofwater. They change colour when spent. You should be able to order from Fisher Scientific or some other scientific supplier. Good Luck.Mauro On Thu, 20 Jun 1996, Kirkpatrick, Terry @ CLW wrote: ----------=From: owner-rodmakers =Subject: Re: moisture re-entry=Date: Thursday, June 20, 1996 11:37AM== =be a problem. My splines are currently sitting in a room that goes between=80%=and 90%. There's probably moisture re-entry going on here.>>==I would be very concerned with storing splines, or a finished rod in a room=with this kind of humidity. There will be moisture re-entry, the rod willget=slower and there may be some dimensional change as well. A slightlyelevated=temperature will do no harm,and will speed the drying process, but is not=necessary. You do need to find a way to lower the humidity. The best thing=you can do for a rod,or any other wooden structure is to store it in astable=enviornment, without big swings in humidity or temperature. Here in Florida, humidity of 80-90% is the norm. I store my Cain rods in abedroom closet where I "Hope" the humidity is a little lower. However,every time I take them out I'm using them in the humid weather. I waswondering about a chemical agent to keep them dry. Any ideas? Terry KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fla. TKirkpat@CLW.UNISYSGSG.COM from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 24 12:44:13 1996 Subject: Re: moisture re-entry Two methods that can be used to reduce humidity in a storage cabinet arean electric warmer (GoldenRod from Cabela's, $30) or containers of silicagel. I have used both to reduce the humidity in gun cabinets located ina humid basement laundry room. Since moisture re-entry is a slow process,and most rods spend more time in storage than in use, any moisture thatenters during use (or building in the case of splines) is negligible. Bill Lambersonwlambers@mail.coin.missouri.edu from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 24 12:44:22 1996 Subject: Moisture Re-entry Terry- If you are using A/C in the worst months you are probably OK. I relyon it here in southern NJ, which rivals Florida for 6-10 weeks most years inthe heat and humidity department. If you deal with this year round you maywant to build some sort of dry box to store the rods. Check the huntingcatalogs, such as Dunn,s. I have seen various dessicant devices listed forgun storage. Some are passive, involving chemical packs which must berecharged by baking them occasionally, others involve electric elements.Don't worry about taking the rods fishing. Varnish greatly retards moistureentry ( or exit), and it would take several months in a different climate forany serious change to ocurr. To give you an extreme example, I oncerefinished and referruled a bargain rod in the summer for my brother. Itapparently had been stored in a garage. That winter my brother kept it in aroom heated by a wood stove. The cane shrank enough to break the glue bond onthe butt ferrule, and I had to reset it. It took several months for this tohappen, however, and no other ill effects were noted. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 24 12:44:29 1996 Subject: Re: dip tubes Jack, I was told by Dave Male, a rodmaker from upstate NY that he used copper andit turned his varnish a lt. green. I understand it has been used by othersthough. I use and suggest using 2" PVC plastic. You can even get a 3" to 2" reducerfitting to go on the top which gives you a larger area of surface whichhelps if you dip both tips at the same time. The 3" fitting will accept a 3'cap which has a rubber gasket. I have had good results with this system andthe finish never skims over. I do however make a new dip tube each time Ichange my varnish. Pipe and fittings caost less than $8.00. Best, Jon Parker from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Jun 24 13:32:11 1996 Subject: Nodeless I am attempting to construct a nodeless rod and have discovered thatthe individual splines each have a consistent twist. I assume theproblem rests with the creation of the bevels for the individual joints.I have formed the bevels both by planing using a guide block asdescribed by Garrison and a sanding disk. Any advice will be greatlyappreciated. Regards, Karl Almquist from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 25 10:53:56 1996 Subject: We're Back / partially!!!!! Hello folks, Mike Biondo here direct from Casa Cattanach. Just wanted to drop y'all a short line to say what a great weekend theRodmakers Gathering and Trout Bum Barbeque was!!! Lots, lots wenton (sleeping, usually not one of them!) and much to report. Detailedreport to follow once I get back to St. Louis. All I'll say for now is...You sure don't want to miss next year's GraylingRODMAKERS Gathering!!! I'm sure it will be a blast!!! Mike - Is that really the SUN that is coming up - BiondoCasnovia, MI / St. Louis, MO -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Hopefully when you are reading this all who attended this years Rodmakersgathering have returned home safely and without 'Hex' flys as ear rings (awild story). Great group - great fun - more latter - hope to meet more of you from the list next year in 'Grayrock' Same Time Same Channel next year Wayne P.s With my bald brain next year we must do hats - for those rare occassionswhen the sun does shine!!!! from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 25 10:54:09 1996 Subject: Re: At 04:22 PM 6/21/96 -0400, you wrote:PLEASE TELL ME HOW TO GET OFF THE RODMAKERS LIST. THANK YOUTry putting the following in the bodysignoff rodmakers from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 25 10:54:18 1996 Subject: TBBBQ II Thanks to all for a great day on Saturday.I had a blast and of course I ate too much.Hopefully next year I will get there a few days early and get achance to do some fishing. I hope there are some fish biggerthan the 4" rainbow Jeff Wagner managed to entice to his fly! Mauro. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 25 10:54:55 1996 Subject: Re: dip tubes At 09:32 AM 6/21/96 -0400, you wrote:Jack, I was told by Dave Male, a rodmaker from upstate NY that he used copper andit turned his varnish a lt. green. I understand it has been used by othersthough. I use and suggest using 2" PVC plastic. You can even get a 3" to 2" reducerfitting to go on the top which gives you a larger area of surface whichhelps if you dip both tips at the same time. The 3" fitting will accept a 3'cap which has a rubber gasket. I have had good results with this system andthe finish never skims over. I do however make a new dip tube each time Ichange my varnish. Pipe and fittings caost less than $8.00. Best, Jon Parker I started with a PVC dip tube. It appeared to me as if the solvent invarnish is able to penetrate the walls of PVC tubes! Not only did I skimover but I ended up with a solid cylinder of varnish within a few months. I've been using copper for a few years now & have no problems whatsoeverwith solvent loss nor have I had any discoloration - so far! My captightens with three thumbscrews & I use aluminum foil on top of rubbergasket material to get an air-tight seal. Best,Gordon from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 25 10:55:04 1996 Subject: We're Back/ Partially !!!!!! Hello folks, Mike Biondo here direct from Casa Cattanach. Just wanted to drop y'all a short line to say what a great weekend theRodmakers Gathering and Trout Bum Barbeque was!!! Lots, lots wenton (sleeping, usually not one of them!) and much to report. Detailedreport to follow once I get back to St. Louis. All I'll say for now is...You sure don't want to miss next year's GraylingRODMAKERS Gathering!!! I'm sure it will be a blast!!! Mike - Is that really the SUN that is coming up - BiondoCasnovia, MI / St. Louis, MO -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Hopefully when you are reading this all who attended this years Rodmakersgathering have returned home safely and without 'Hex' flys as ear rings (awild story). Great group - great fun - more later - hope to meet more of you from the list next year in 'Grayrock' Same Time Same Channel next year Wayne P.s With my bald brain next year we must do hats - for those rare occassionswhen the sun does shine!!!! from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 25 10:55:08 1996 Subject: Re: moisture re-entry List: I am a neophyte rodmaker but an experienced woodworker; the followingcomment is coming from the latter perspective, but is, I hope, of use: Most moisture re-entry in wood occurs through the end grain.Although the end grain is obviously exposed in culms and splines,very little is exposed in a built-up rod, even with a porous finish.The exposed flats should absorb relatively little moisture anddo so very slowly, and the end grain is nicely sealed up in thereel seat, ferrules, and tip-top. I certainly wouldn't feelcomfortable fishing a rod with no finish, but I agree with BillLamberson that moisture re-entry during use on the wettest of dayswill be negligible. Long-term storage is another matter, especially for culms.Woodworkers sometimes melt wax onto the end grain of logs to slowdrying and avoid checking; could the same technique be used on dryculms to avoid moisture re-entry during long-term storage? Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 25 10:55:49 1996 Subject: Re: moisture re-entry Mark M Freed wrote: I read in Cattanach's book that moisture reentry after heat treating canbe a problem. My splines are currently sitting in a room that goes between 80%and 90%. There's probably moisture reentry going on here. How much of a problem is this, and is it a problem of dimensional stabilityor changes in the action of the finished rod? Also: is there some way to takethe moisture safely out again? How about putting it in an environment that'sdry and not too hot--say 100 degrees and low humidity? SO: do I worry about this and if so, what remedies are there? Mark, Living in Florida I have to deal with moisture all year. First I don't work on my rods if the moisture is above 50% in the room where I amworking. This is after I do the heat treating of course. I run an air conditioner agood part of the year, which is normal for Florida. But I also use a dehumidifierto assure the moisture is below the 50% mark. I f I am not working on a rod I store it in a tube with descant. Silica gel can beused, this can be purchased at craft stores. It's used for drying flowers. I useEvr-Dry they have a home page at : http://members.aol.com/evrdri/index.html . TheEvr-Dry product is easier to use than silica gel. The other thing that I have done is to put my rods back in the oven at a lowtemperature 120 to 130. The glue I use allows me to do this. I have left them inthe oven at a low temperature for as long as a week to drive all the moisture out. Finally when I store my finished rods, I store them with some Evr-Dry in the tubewith the rod. This will keep the humidity below 10%. As to how moisture will effect a finished rod. My experience is that that willvary. I have one blank that I have not put the guides on because it will take asoft set after only slight moisture reentry. I had about 4 culms of bamboo thatwere much more sensitive to moisture that others I have used. So check your bamboocarefully, and keep your splines as dry as possible. I hope this helps Jonathan ClarkeTwin Pines Rods from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 25 21:09:47 1996 Subject: Finishes Has anyone had experience with "wipe-on" finishes? A product that Iam considering is Arm-R-Seal made by General Finishes Corp. It is atung oil/urethane formula. Another product under consideration is Master- GelClear Finish manufactured by H. Behlen Bros. Since thesematerials are "wiped on", it would appear that they eliminate the need appreciated. Regards,Karl Almquist from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Jun 25 22:36:01 1996 Subject: Re: dip tubes Gordon: How do you out your cap on the tube with thumb screws? Thanks,Philip I've been using copper for a few years now & have no problems whatsoeverwith solvent loss nor have I had any discoloration - so far! My captightens with three thumbscrews & I use aluminum foil on top of rubbergasket material to get an air-tight seal. Best,Gordon from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 26 08:28:01 1996 Subject: Re: dip tubes Gorden, What varnish are you using? Jack I started with a PVC dip tube. It appeared to me as if the solvent invarnish is able to penetrate the walls of PVC tubes! Not only did I skimover but I ended up with a solid cylinder of varnish within a few months. I've been using copper for a few years now & have no problems whatsoeverwith solvent loss nor have I had any discoloration - so far! My captightens with three thumbscrews & I use aluminum foil on top of rubbergasket material to get an air-tight seal. Best,Gordon from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 26 09:30:20 1996 Subject: Re: Finishes Karl, I've used Arm-R-Seal and the related products from General Finishesa lot in woodworking. I plan to use Arm-R-Seal on the rod I'm workingon now. About 5 years ago I used it on a birch silverware organizerwhich gets pounded on daily by our family of 5 and it still looksgood. Like you say, its easy to use. Some pros use similar rub-onoil-varnish blends like gunstock finishes (Tru Oil) on rods and swear With regard to your problem of a twist in your spliced splines, Ihave the same problem in a few of my current splines. It's usuallypretty obvious which splice isn't square. I blame my planing.I've resolved to spend more time prepping the little 15 inchsplits before I taper the ends and glue into splines. I'm building aplaning jig to help me get the strips uniform and square before Igo further. I'm finding out that this cane rod building is like a lot of otherthings; watch out for the steps that seem easy at first!......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterInformation and Media Technologies than a waterproof coat and aUniv Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,stetzer@csd.uwm.edu "Fisherman's Luck", 1899.On 25 Jun 1996, KARL W. ALMQUIST wrote: Has anyone had experience with "wipe-on" finishes? A product that Iam considering is Arm-R-Seal made by General Finishes Corp. It is atung oil/urethane formula. Another product under consideration is Master- GelClear Finish manufactured by H. Behlen Bros. Since thesematerials are "wiped on", it would appear that they eliminate the need appreciated. Regards,Karl Almquist from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Jun 26 09:30:31 1996 Subject: Re: Finishes Hi thereI have built one rod so far, and I used a rubbed finish so I wouldn't needa dip tube.The first few coats were pure tung oil. The oil is applied with a rag, letsit for 5 - 10 min. and wipe off. These I put on before the guideswere wrapped. After wrapping the guides, I covered the wraps with a fewcoats of tung based varnish. As a final step, I applied the tung basedvarnish with a rag, wait 5 - 10 min. and wipe off. It takes MANY coatsto get a good build and shine. I used about 10 coats total, and somepeople who saw my rod thought it was unfinished. It gives a goodfunctional finish, with little shine. I used the minwax tung/varnish, which is labled as "tung finish" hope this helps.Mauro. On 25 Jun 1996, KARL W. ALMQUIST wrote: Has anyone had experience with "wipe-on" finishes? A product that Iam considering is Arm-R-Seal made by General Finishes Corp. It is atung oil/urethane formula. Another product under consideration is Master- GelClear Finish manufactured by H. Behlen Bros. Since thesematerials are "wiped on", it would appear that they eliminate the need appreciated. Regards,Karl Almquist from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 07:23:14 1996 Subject: Tuning Forms I was given a set of planing forms by a friend. They are the Kreider type andmade of aluminum. Wayne talke about tuning forms. It seems his filing methodwould not work too well with aluminun. Gum up the file etc. I have thoughtusing my palm sander but I am worried about keeping the surfaces true sincethe sander has a semisoft pad under the sandpaper.Any Ideas?ThanksRich Jezioro *_________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ //|| __________________________________________________||/\/ \ > > > from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 07:23:26 1996 Subject: Block Planes To All: There is a good article in the new Fine Woodworking (Aug '96) on blockplanes and compares a good selection of them. Also, there is an excellenttutorial on how to tune one. This is very complete and must reading for someoneto get the most out of thier plane. in on the back cover - except I want a trout (native brookie). Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 07:25:14 1996 Subject: Continued Besides the obvious at the gathering there were a few special monents.Larry Blan aka The Mouse Man now Big Hairy Stuff demonstrated how a big wadof deer hair is turned into a mouse. Luis will report next year on theresults of how they work on Big Brook trout in Lab.There were a couple of conversions this past weekend and members wereblessed into the Church Of The Significant Rise Form - Friar Don officiated.And I still haven't got all the facts yet - but a few guests of VicEdwards decided that with all the regality some decided to pierce there ears.Rumor has it that Sam and Nancy (the manager at Spike's) were some howinvolved. I did witness that Neal (the world traveler from Scotland) did havesomething new hanging from his ear Sunday morning.I grew up like most of you reading the article Exit Laughing by the lateEd Zern and with that in mind thought that the following might be anappropriate name for the weekend group: The Greater Grayrock Bamboo Rod, Bent Hackle, Balded Bambi, and Grain FuturesAppreciation Society from West Canada Corners HeightsWayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 08:58:11 1996 Subject: Re: dip tubes Here's the scoop on the dip tube... The lid is a piece of 1/2" ply with red rubber gasket material glued to it &trimmed. On the gasket material I placed aluminum foil. Thumb screws gothrough the lid around the edge at three locations. The screws go into acollar I made using 4 pieces of 1/2" ply stacked & glued which is rounded onthe outside & has a suitable hole for the tube to fit through. The collar's attachment to the tube is as difficult to describe as it isembarrassing... I cut 1/2" x 1/2" grooves on the inside of the lower three layers of ply.Then I cut little levers of oak which aren't quite straight - maybe 20degrees off. Stick the levers into the mortises and tighten an automotivehose clamp around the protruding (lower) ends of the levers. The leversare pressed out against the collar & in against the tube. Remarkably goodgrip & easily removed. I've been using plain old Varathane #900 - clear finish gloss - heavily thinned. Two other ideas I've had... On the outside of the tank/tub I have an aquarium thermometer. It indicatestemperature through color change of the numbers. It's self adhesive but Iput a piece of clear 2" tape over it for security. The other idea is a two foot piece of cane planed into a square & repeatedlydipped. Between coats I inscribed 600/1000/1200/1500 on the four flats. Totest my varnish viscosity I sand each face with the inscribed grit paper.The idea being that between thinning & temperature regulation I can achievea finish which is too thin to fill 600 sanding marks but will fill somefiner ones. I think this may well be the way to go. A drop test soundslike a pain & what I'm really looking for is build/fill information. Cheers,Gordon Gordon, What varnish are you using? Jack I started with a PVC dip tube. It appeared to me as if the solvent invarnish is able to penetrate the walls of PVC tubes! Not only did I skimover but I ended up with a solid cylinder of varnish within a few months. I've been using copper for a few years now & have no problems whatsoeverwith solvent loss nor have I had any discoloration - so far! My captightens with three thumbscrews & I use aluminum foil on top of rubbergasket material to get an air-tight seal. Best,Gordon from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 08:59:25 1996 Subject: Re: Block Planes Well after a couple of nights sleep I hope that everyone is fully refreshedand back on track. I enjoyed meeting all of the new faces to go with some ofthe names that I know from the list here.Fortunately the temperatures were lower that last year - Michigan hashad a cold wet spring - But very little was seen of the famous 'Hexes' withjust a few being seen on friday and saturday nights.Thursday evenings welcome picnic took place at Whispering PinesCampgrounds (Frank Loves place) located on the west bank of the Manistee justbelow CR(County Road) 612 bridge. Our List Serve Guy aka Mike Biondo broughta mini keg with him from St Louis and many enjoyed the liquid treasure asfishing and rod casting took place on the river.Looking ahead to next year, the local group will have three moreriverboats to float folks with and as a well linked cross section perhaps thelist group could add ideas of what they would like to do.A special time for me was that that I spent with Luis as we waited forthe Demarests to arrive thursday night - they missed a couple flights out ofDetroit and didn't arrive in Grayrock until after ten oclock. As most othershad gone to Frank's around 4:00 or so Luis arrived at about 5:00 and we satin the clubhouse until about 7:30 before we left for the picnic. Having beenprepared - we had some Spike's onion rings and a beer - and I had broughtsome Geographics with me of Luis's early writings and photos including hisfirst - November 1936.Friday was the start of the business with Harold presenting his slidesand talk on China followed by multi presentations under the tent - it wouldbe hard to judge but I think that every topic posible may have been touchedupon.Back at the clubhouse friday night for pizza and beer - this time KimFairchild providing -Saturday I talked about rod design - I am typing it into a betterformat and will post it to the list when ready. During the free time on bothfriday and saturday there was a lot of chat and casting. Saturday night thelittle blonde showed up for the TBBBQ. I did the sporting flies before thewind died down - got a 4 - some from the list better.Each of us go to things like this for different reasons - having maderods for 14 years I can appreciate the new ideas and the different gadgetsbut I confess to Ol' Fartism in the methods that I use to make rods. For meit's the people that attend - the friends from past times and the new facesfull of excitement -As with all good things - there comes an end. Sunday after sending Benand Lyndi heading for home - Mike, Matt and I wandered our way to the JordanRiver. I first fly fished the Jordan in 1963 with my dad who passed on thispast fall. In seeing the river again even Matt recalled the times that he ata younger age played along the banks - For me it reminded of the day that Ilaid my Leonard on top of my truck parked along Section Creek 13 and pull outlater forgetting the rod and starting a new adventure.Word has reached me that Ron wants to take a break from planning thegatherings so here is a unique opportunity. For those that may not know itSteve Southard & I lease the clubhouse and it was my thought that it would bea place to get together each year. The Trout Bum BBQ III has been set forJune 21, 1997. So for those who like there will be a group of rodmakersmeeting the 20 & 21 of next year - with our connectivity let's plan it here -your thought ??? Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 09:41:34 1996 Subject: Finishes Dip tubes? Wipe on? Am I the last Neanderthal out here using a sable brushand spar varnish? It does take some practice to get an even coat, and I don'tpretend to have all the answers on how to keep all dust particles away. It isa simple method, however, well suited to an amateur. I've used McCloskeygloss and satin finish with good results( the gloss finish builds up faster), and recently used Benjamin Moore Spar Varnish successfully. Does anyoneknow of a polyurethane that can be brushed on without fear of drips and runs?- Tom Smithwick from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 10:06:34 1996 Subject: Tapers Pls contact me off list. There is a question or two concerning the tapersbefore they are posted. Thanks,RTyreeFallcreek9@aol.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 10:07:26 1996 Subject: RODMAKERS Encounter I - June 20/21 1997 Wayne seez... Word has reached me that Ron wants to take a break from planning thegatherings so here is a unique opportunity. For those that may not know itSteve Southard & I lease the clubhouse and it was my thought that it would bea place to get together each year. The Trout Bum BBQ III has been set forJune 21, 1997. So for those who like there will be a group of rodmakersmeeting the 20 & 21 of next year - with our connectivity let's plan it here -your thought ??? Great news!!! Now that we have a date set, I think the first order of businessshould be deciding on a name for our 'gathering'. So everyone puton your creative thinking caps and let's come up with a name.I threw one suggestion into the ring with the above subject line,(yeah, I know...pretty lame! :-) so let's have some others. I willaccumulate all the suggestions and we can throw it up for a vote. Who will be the one who coins the name that the Grayling RODMAKERSgathering will be known by for ever more... Mike - Lame Name - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 10:07:26 1996 Subject: RODMAKERS Encounter I - June 20/21 1997 Wayne seez... Word has reached me that Ron wants to take a break from planning thegatherings so here is a unique opportunity. For those that may not know itSteve Southard & I lease the clubhouse and it was my thought that it would bea place to get together each year. The Trout Bum BBQ III has been set forJune 21, 1997. So for those who like there will be a group of rodmakersmeeting the 20 & 21 of next year - with our connectivity let's plan it here -your thought ??? Great news!!! Now that we have a date set, I think the first order of businessshould be deciding on a name for our 'gathering'. So everyone puton your creative thinking caps and let's come up with a name.I threw one suggestion into the ring with the above subject line,(yeah, I know...pretty lame! :-) so let's have some others. I willaccumulate all the suggestions and we can throw it up for a vote. Who will be the one who coins the name that the Grayling RODMAKERSgathering will be known by for ever more... Mike - Lame Name - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo from oborge@uno.aiss.uic.edu Thu Jun 27 10:22:05 1996 Subject: RE: RODMAKERS Encounter I - June 20/21 1997Encoding: 35 TEXT Mike,If you bring the beer, I suggest we let you call it anything you want.----- ----- Subject: RODMAKERS Encounter I - June 20/21 1997 Wayne seez... Word has reached me that Ron wants to take a break from planning thegatherings so here is a unique opportunity. For those that may not know itSteve Southard & I lease the clubhouse and it was my thought that it wouldbea place to get together each year. The Trout Bum BBQ III has been set forJune 21, 1997. So for those who like there will be a group of rodmakersmeeting the 20 & 21 of next year - with our connectivity let's plan it here-your thought ??? Great news!!! Now that we have a date set, I think the first order of businessshould be deciding on a name for our 'gathering'. So everyone puton your creative thinking caps and let's come up with a name.I threw one suggestion into the ring with the above subject line,(yeah, I know...pretty lame! :-) so let's have some others. I willaccumulate all the suggestions and we can throw it up for a vote. Who will be the one who coins the name that the Grayling RODMAKERSgathering will be known by for ever more... Mike - Lame Name - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 10:39:01 1996 Subject: Name that weekend!!! Here's a suggestion from Jerry Ballard - not bad... from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Thu Jun 27 10:17:23 1996Subject: Re: RODMAKERS Encounter I - June 20/21 1997From: ballard@zen.wes.army.mil ( Jerry Ballard )Sender: ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Your suggestion isn't as lame as mine is: RODMAKERS raising CANE - June 20/21 1997 -Jerry Mike - NameGame - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 11:50:06 1996 Subject: Re: RODMAKERS Encounter I - June 20/21 1997 "Brotherhood (of) All Makers (of) Bamboo Originals Outing" or theshort title "BAMBOO I" ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________Subject: RODMAKERS Encounter I - June 20/21 1997Author: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet-Mail Wayne seez... Word has reached me that Ron wants to take a break from planning thegatherings so here is a unique opportunity. For those that may not know itSteve Southard & I lease the clubhouse and it was my thought that it would bea place to get together each year. The Trout Bum BBQ III has been set forJune 21, 1997. So for those who like there will be a group of rodmakersmeeting the 20 & 21 of next year - with our connectivity let's plan it here -your thought ??? Great news!!! Now that we have a date set, I think the first order of businessshould be deciding on a name for our 'gathering'. So everyone puton your creative thinking caps and let's come up with a name.I threw one suggestion into the ring with the above subject line,(yeah, I know...pretty lame! :-) so let's have some others. I willaccumulate all the suggestions and we can throw it up for a vote. Who will be the one who coins the name that the Grayling RODMAKERSgathering will be known by for ever more... Mike - Lame Name - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 12:14:45 1996 Subject: Re: RODMAKERS Encounter I - June 20/21 1997 Better yet, Bamboo-zers I Woodstock (well, ok then... "Canestock") "Brotherhood (of) All Makers (of) Bamboo Originals Outing" or theshort title "BAMBOO I" TL(Hey, Smiling is Fun! I think I'll do is some more!)_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _\ \ / / ///"Tim"othy M. Lane, Ph.D. \\\\ \ ///Psychologist/Asst. Professor O===============###########Psychology Dept. Univ. of North Texas / / / \ \ \\Denton, Texas, / / / \\ \ \\Lane@DSA.UNT.EDU // / / \\ ll"Hey, YOU! Out of the Gene Pool!" from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 12:14:58 1996 Subject: Forms As I had stated before I am getting back into bamboo rod making aftera long absence. The first book that I followed had me make the planingforms out of 2X4's. It worked, however, I do not want to try it thatway again. As I am not sure how fast my wife is going to allow me to purchase the tools that I need (its breeding season here in Marylandand the mares are not all back to the farm yet) does anyone out there have an old set for sale? If not point me in, not cheep, but most economical direction. Thanks. Jim from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 12:52:33 1996 Subject: Re: Rodmaker Program I just received this from Jerry - Mr. Archives - Foster, pretty sure itwas meant for the entire list... BTW, just a reminder, the new and hopefully permanent home of the RODMAKERSarchives is the RODMAKERS web page set up by Jerry. If you haven't takena look at it lately please do. Jerry has done great job on it. If all goesaccording to plan, each Monday morning I will forward to Jerry the pastweek's messages for inclusion into the archive. That should give us a prettyup-to-date running archive. Mike-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-= from jfoster@gte.net Thu Jun 27 12:07:34 1996From: Jerry Foster Mime-Version: 1.0Subject: Re: Rodmaker Program Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Group Just got back last night. 26th. Enjoyed meeting all of you.. I justmounted HEXROD5.XLS on sirronald. Haven't put it on the archive yet Chris made several suggestions that i'll work on... Namely autodefinition of all ferrel locations and sizes.. not so easy, if youfigure it out soon John , let me know. http://HOME1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm put it in your book I had a great day on the Manistee Sun.. Chris, John, did you catch thebeast..? Jerry from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 12:59:54 1996 Subject: Re[2]: RODMAKERS Encounter I - June 20/21 1997 WOW! I replied with my entry and it got all mixed up with Tim's.Computers never stop confusing me. Jim ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________Subject: Re: RODMAKERS Encounter I - June 20/21 1997Author: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet-Mail Better yet, Bamboo-zers I Woodstock (well, ok then... "Canestock") "Brotherhood (of) All Makers (of) Bamboo Originals Outing" or theshort title "BAMBOO I" TL(Hey, Smiling is Fun! I think I'll do is some more!)_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _\ \ / / ///"Tim"othy M. Lane, Ph.D. \\\\ \ ///Psychologist/Asst. Professor O===============###########Psychology Dept. Univ. of North Texas / / / \ \ \\Denton, Texas, / / / \\ \ \\Lane@DSA.UNT.EDU // / / \\ ll"Hey, YOU! Out of the Gene Pool!" from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 16:01:56 1996 Subject: Re: RODMAKERS Encounter I - June 20/21 1997 Is it Ok if a new guy plays the "name the gatheirng" game? Bamboo Boogie? Rod Rendezous? Arundinaria Assembly? Split Cane Stop (or Station)? Makers Meet? ------------------------------------------------------------Victor Edwardsvedwards@freeway.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 16:49:49 1996 Subject: Re: RODMAKERS Encounter I - June 20/21 1997 VIC GLAD TO SEE YOU DID GET SIGNED UP.. great trip. Thanks again \ Jerry and a BIG thanks to all who helped plan and pull off the symposium.. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 17:08:41 1996 Subject: Names We've got some great names for our official gathering next yearin Grayling. C'mon, we've got 200+ folks on this list we shouldhave plenty more suggestions. Once we decide on a name, we canget the fliers printed up!!! :- ) I'll attach what's been sent in so far... Mike - a name is born - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= The Greater Grayrock Bamboo Rod, Bent Hackle, Balded Bambi,and Grain Futures Appreciation Society Wayne Cattanach RODMAKERS Encounter I Mike Biondo RODMAKERS raising CANE Jerry Ballard Brotherhood (of) All Makers (of) Bamboo Originals Outing (BAMBOO I)Jack Bewley Bamboo-zers I Tim Lane Woodstock (well, ok then... "Canestock") Tim Lane Bamboo Boogie Victor Edwards Rod Rendezous Victor Edwards Arundinaria Assembly Victor Edwards Split Cane Stop (or Station) Victor Edwards Makers Meet Victor Edwards from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 18:34:56 1996 Subject: Re: Rodmaker Program Jerry We did not catch the beast - but did get all of his relatives includingone of his little brothers. The cool weather kept the Brown Drake hatch forreaching its peak - never the less - it was still an impressive hatch. No realsign of the BIG Bugs which would of brought out the beast. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 19:11:30 1996 Subject: Re: Finishes Dip tubes? Wipe on? Am I the last Neanderthal out here using a sable brushand spar varnish? It does take some practice to get an even coat, and I don'tpretend to have all the answers on how to keep all dust particles away. It isa simple method, however, well suited to an amateur. I've used McCloskeygloss and satin finish with good results( the gloss finish builds up faster), and recently used Benjamin Moore Spar Varnish successfully. Does anyoneknow of a polyurethane that can be brushed on without fear of drips and runs?- Tom Smithwick Tom,Have you tried the disposable foam brushes with the wooden handles?If you thin the varnish a bit you can apply thin, drip-free coats. Tain'tsable but awfully easy.Reed from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 19:12:32 1996 Subject: Wayne & Grain... Hey A.J., Thanks again for you presence at the Portland Anglers Club. After seeingyour work, reading about you, & reading your email it was great to finallymeet you! Remember mentioning that Wayne doesn't drink? He's the guy the suggested the Grain Futures Appreciation Society!!! I'dlove to make it next year. Cheers,Gordon from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 20:39:57 1996 Subject: hex Mike Yes, Excel doesn't seem to be re-entrant. So far you have to at leastput a start and end demension.. see if i can't fix that too. although ithink it's a feature not a bug.Jerry from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Jun 27 20:49:18 1996 Subject: Re: RODMAKERS Encounter I - June 20/21 1997 Who will be the one who coins the name that the Grayling RODMAKERSgathering will be known by for ever more... Mike - Lame Name - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo Better yet! "A Sound Thrashing with the Cane" !!! Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 28 07:29:42 1996 Subject: Re: Heddon #10 TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: The two tone black /red thread might be available from Belviordale, which isin the Philadelphia area. I no longer have their address and can't be of morehelp. I restored a similar rod some years ago and had sucess dyeingblack/white with Veniard red dye. I ran the thread through a dye bath andonto a fly line dryer. The results were very good. Sorry I am so late in responding to this, Belvoirdale does have aBlack/Red mingled thread. They can be reached at 215-886-7211. I justordered some thread from them Jonathan Clarke from 102130.461@CompuServe.COM Thu Jun 27 22:47:13 1996 Subject: Re: Names I might lengthen it to 'Rodmakers' meet'. It would tie together with TBBBQ in asingle sentence, as in "Rodmakers' Meet & Trout Bum Bar-B-Q". It would alsolend itself well to other aspects which may be added to the weekend in thefuture such as, for example, "Flytiers' Meet", "Single Malt Drinkers' Meet" ,etc. ....for what it's worth. Steve~~ from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 28 10:24:39 1996 Subject: RE: Names Got the following from Steve Southard... Mike---=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-= from 102130.461@CompuServe.COM Thu Jun 27 22:47:13 1996 Subject: Re: Names I might lengthen it to 'Rodmakers' meet'. It would tie together with TBBBQ in asingle sentence, as in "Rodmakers' Meet & Trout Bum Bar-B-Q". It would alsolend itself well to other aspects which may be added to the weekend in thefuture such as, for example, "Flytiers' Meet", "Single Malt Drinkers' Meet" ,etc. ....for what it's worth. Steve~~ from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 28 11:19:16 1996 Subject: re: Names Here's one for the list. Bamboo Rendezvous -------------Original Text from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu (Michael Biondo), on 06-27-96 2:02 PM:We've got some great names for our official gathering next yearin Grayling. C'mon, we've got 200+ folks on this list we shouldhave plenty more suggestions. Once we decide on a name, we canget the fliers printed up!!! :- ) I'll attach what's been sent in so far... Mike - a name is born - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= The Greater Grayrock Bamboo Rod, Bent Hackle, Balded Bambi,and Grain Futures Appreciation Society Wayne Cattanach RODMAKERS Encounter I Mike Biondo RODMAKERS raising CANE Jerry Ballard Brotherhood (of) All Makers (of) Bamboo Originals Outing (BAMBOO I)Jack Bewley Bamboo-zers I Tim Lane Woodstock (well, ok then... "Canestock") Tim Lane Bamboo Boogie Victor Edwards Rod Rendezous Victor Edwards Arundinaria Assembly Victor Edwards Split Cane Stop (or Station) Victor Edwards Makers Meet Victor Edwards from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 28 12:46:46 1996 Subject: how old is it? I've got an old rod that I would like to place an approximate age on. Theonly markings are Union Hardware Company, Torrington Conn. U.S.A. on thereelseat which is a brown plastic/bakelite ? The reelseat is of thedownlocking screw type with metal hardware. The grip is a 5 1\2" half Wells.Ferrules are shouldered, rolled welt and appear to be nickled brass. Overallthe rod is low quality, I just like to have some idea as to how old the rodsI refinish are. I couldn't find this one listed in Michael Sinclair's book.If anyone is interested in taking a stab at the approximate age I would begrateful. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 28 12:50:46 1996 Subject: Names How about The Caneards Convention According to the dictionary the suffix -ard means - One that habitually orexcessively is in a specified condition or performs a specified action.(sounds like someone I know) Garyglandry@tasc.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 28 12:54:14 1996 Subject: Re: RODMAKERS Encounter I - June 20/21 1997 Jerry 'ppreciate the welcome. Glad you enjoyed it. It was fun. ------------------------------------------------------------Victor Edwardsvedwards@freeway.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 28 13:46:55 1996 Subject: RE: how old is it? = I couldn't find this one listed in Michael Sinclair's book.=If anyone is interested in taking a stab at the approximate age I would be=grateful.==Mac I'd like to see the answer on list. Terry KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Flu from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 28 16:47:57 1996 Subject: (no subject) I WOULD LIKE INFORMATION ON ROD BUILDING MATERIAL SUPPLIERS. I CURRENTLYORDER ALL MY STUFF from CABELA'S, BUT I THINK THEY ARE GETTING OUT OFTHE ROD BUILDING BUISNESS.IF ANYONE HAS A LIST OF SUPPLIERS I WOULDAPPRECIATE SOME.THANKS from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 28 19:03:17 1996 Subject: Re: Names Perhaps"Cane Rod Aficionados, Makers, and Purveyors Social"CRAMPS for short. This would go well with the results of eating too much atthe Barbeque. Great food, Victor! Reed from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Jun 28 19:46:49 1996 Subject: Re: Tuning Forms A true sanding block would do the trick,,,or you could do like me...As a wood worker, I own a number of sanders. I have one that I havededicated to doing true work. Remove the neoprene backing and you willhave a flat surface. You must be careful if you use this method, dontrock the sander at all. The sides and particularly the corners of thesander base will dig in to the material and tattoo it nicely. I workin mixed mediums so I have used this method, however, the alum. stillclogs the paper. If you dont want to take off the backing on yoursander, take a look at the neoprene anyway to see if its a littleworn, and if so, it needs to be changed. Get the idea? from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Jun 29 11:22:35 1996 Subject: Re: glue and clamps patrick coffey wrote: I'm new to the list and I think that I can add somethings I learned at mylast job. I worked as a violin maker for eight year and some of thetools,principles and lessons learned can be used in rod making. Weattempted to use liquid hide glue and found at its very best it was avery,very poor glue and not to be used for anything that you wanted tohold together-we found that the old dry flake or sheet glue worked thebest. You have to cover it with water and let it soak for hours till itcompletely swells up and then melt it in a glue pot at 150 degrees. Weuse old contact, boiling type, lens cleaner with a dimmer switch in thepower cord as a temperature control. We found the lens cleaners at thriftstores for a couple of bucks, used a empty baby bottle to hold the glueand a dimmer switch at a hardware store for a few bucks. We use thesqueeze type cloth pins with rubber bands wrapped around the squeeze end that made up the top were book matched {side by side} from the same pieceof wood from the same tree for two reasons. (1) it makes both sidesstructurealy equal in stiffness in all directions and (2) both side arecosmetically identical. This held true for the top,back and sides, eventhe neck came out of the same tree. We found that the best tung oil waspollimerized tung oil done by aireating the tung oil in a glass jar inthe sunlight. It goes from short chained mollecules to long chain. HomerFormsby tung oil is tung oil cut with paint thinner and a few resinsadded. Hope this information will help you guys especially the clothe pinclamps,they work just as good as metal ones and are a heck of a lotcheaper also as you've noticed I am the worlds worst speller.Patrick Coffey from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Jun 29 17:35:52 1996 Subject: Big Dog Rod Taper Richard / et al. Here is the taper for the Shenandoah Special AKA "Big Dog Rod" that I had at Grayling.I had a number of requests for the taper. It is essentially a converted Leonard TournamentRod Taper that is in Kreider's book (taper No. 12.)that I "smoothed" a bit. As you know, thisrod can definately throw the line. I made it for fishing the Shenandoah for smallmouth withpoppers. I needed something that would reach out and touch some fish. This does that. Ialso took it out Sunday night and it behaved very well on the Manistee fishing sulphers andlatter size 10 / 12 Brown Drakes. Length: 9 and 1/2 feet Line weight: 8 WF Bass Taper (Air Cell) Both the mid and Butt can be midly hollowed fluted to reduce weight. Overall I gotit in at 5 and 1/4 oz. This is a good rod for anyone to practice hollow fluting on. Tip: 0 .0705 .08410 .10415 .12820 .14425 .15830 .17235 .18638 .195 ferrule size 13/64 regular40 .200 Mid35 .18638 .195 ferrule size 13/64 regular40 .20045 .21850 .23455 .24860 .26665 .27870 .28675 .29676 .300 ferrule size 19/64 truncated80 .314 Butt 75 .29676 .300 ferrule size 19/64 truncated80 .31485 .33290 .35095 .366100 .376105 .380110 .380115 .380 I overlapped the taper measurements for the sections since it helps me set up my forms if Ibreak it down this way. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Jun 29 20:09:44 1996 Subject: Re: Brushing varnish Tom Smithwick sent me this excellent reply to my question about how he doeshis brushing. Anyone who has seen his brushwork will testify that the Payneswould have been envious of his skill. Reed - In answer to your e-mail, I don't have any secrets and would be gladto share what I have learned. I use a round sable artist's brush in sizes from 6 to 10 depending on rod size. The larger size is probably better whenyou get the hang of it. Put two coats on all wraps before varnishing the rod.I work at a large, clean table with good light and try to banish cats, dogskids and wives with varying degrees of success.I've heard that the great masters of varnishing could do a section withsix long brush strokes, one for each flat, picking up just enough varnishevery time to do the job. I can't begin to do that , and have evolved aslower,fussier technique which works for me. I work from guide to guide,always brushing toward the tip of the section. At each guide, I use a rollingmotion to put a lot of varnish on the thread bands, then go to longitudinalstrokes to spread the varnish evenly. Near the tip you can cover 3 flats withone stroke, further up 2 flats, and in the butt section, one flat at a time.Pick up varnish with the tip of the brush. Experience will teach you howmuch. In the beginning, as I finished each short section between guides, Iwould take a light leveling stroke on each flat with just the slightest touchof the brush tip. Now I only do that if I see a blob af varnish I don't thinkwill level. Again, only experience can teach you this. Don't bother chasingair bubbles,they almost always pop on their own before the varnish sets. Thearea between the stripper and the cork is too long for me to get with onestroke, so I do this in two sections, taking levelinng strokes as the overlaparea here seems to be a prime area to get a run. Use only spar varnish, Ioften heat it to about 120 degrees, especially if it seems thick. 3 coatsshould do it. As you have seen, I get a nice even coating. I really shouldimprove my dust control techniques if I'm ever going to get a trueprofessional finish. I always seem to get 1 or 2 blemishes, which are notmajor, but they annoy me. I'm replying to you by e-mail,since this is aquirky method that may not work for others. If you feel, however that othersmight be interested, feel free to forward to the list. Regards - TomSmithwick from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Jun 29 23:52:56 1996 Subject: Hexless Report In true Insomniac fasion Sam, Dunkin Dan, and I tried again last nightto test our luck against the Hex hatch. Fishing the lower Manistee until thewee hours - we saw only a few bug and little action on Hexes - Brown Drakesdid well though. I suppose if I were a Hex nymph being stuck in mud for twoyears only to end up face to face with a large female counterpart and not tohave a mouth I might be a little bit of a curmudgeon as well.On a different note, I had a quiet moment this past week and wasthinking of a couple of ideas that might be worth some consideration for thenext get together. With all the talk about the different glues and finishmethods it might be worth while to have a round table talk about thesesubjects and even include time to demonstrate there uses. Now I'm convincedthat not many will be converted to using a different method but remember thata good part of the group (perhaps 50%) are still evolving and this would be agood way for them to form opinions.And by then I hope to make myself a new rod - about time right!! - Ihave finished my dual line rod that I was working on and was rather pleasedwith the action results - so much so that I want to make the 6' 3" #2 - #4that I mentioned here earlier. could create a short rod (2 piece or 3) that then would be the mid or uppersections of a longer 3 or 4 piece rod. Are you listening Chris??? A petitetrout - big dog bass combination??? A diary of the development might make agood report.The last thought. A few of us talked that we ( or someone) shouldcapture some of the personalities that are part of the group while we havethe chance. There was talk of setting down with a few from the group andinterviewing them - videoing the interviews. That way the information and thecharacter of these individuals will be with us forever as part of a videotape library. Had a couple of us thought of this earlier we could havestarted this year. We both had our video equipment with us but were reluctantto get it out for fear of dampening the spirit. Well until the next quiet moment Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Jun 30 08:23:14 1996 Subject: tapers I have been looking for a couple of leonard tapers (38L and 38 1/2L). DOesanyone have them or know where I could look them up? I would also begrateful if someone could direct me to or provide me with a P. YoungPerfectionist taper. What experiences does anyone have with either of the leonards or theirmodifications? I'm primarily looking for a light rod for tiny BWOs and midgesetc. at fairly long distances (say 40'). Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks, Mark M. Freed from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Jun 30 09:55:01 1996 Subject: Re: Hexless Report Wayne Interesting thought on the combo rod for Brookies / Smallmouth. That taperI use would be condusive to it. The taper is basically a dry fly taper. Right now itis a 3 piece 9' 6" and a two piece would be a 6' 4" (about the right length). An extramid would be the butt of the small rod. Not that much more work. A couple ofdifferent tips could be made for light med and heavy actions to complete the package.Shades of the old travel rod packs. Did anyone at Grayling try Leon Hansen's multi-rod with multiple mid and tips.Great rod. This just would add another dimension to it - say turbo boost for thosebigger waters. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Jun 30 10:16:57 1996 Subject: Re: Names Glad you like the chow. It was fun! ------------------------------------------------------------Victor Edwardsvedwards@freeway.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Jun 30 20:08:03 1996 Subject: Taper for the Texas General Chris Bogart had asked for this taper. The blank is purported to be aYoung Texas General. It is marked as follows. 9 or 9.5 ft.8 or 9 wt..36518 Ferrule61/2 top 00 - .08805 - .11710 - .13615 - .15720 - .16925 - . 18530 - .19735 - .21240 - .23145 - .23650 - .26754 - .28655 - .28860 - .29065 - .29870 - .31475 - .32780 - .33685 - .34490 - .36295 - .365100 - .365105 - .365108 - .365--Larry Blan from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Jun 30 23:44:09 1996 Subject: Re: tapers Mark,Have the dimensions of the Leonard 38 ( no idea whether its an "L" or not.Built a replica of the rod that was shown to me at one of the Merritt, BCcane meetings. The replica, like the orginal casts very slowwwwwllllly. Youcould and likely should use it while having lunch. Take a bite, chew andwait for the backcast to straighten, start fore cast ,take a bite, chew andwait for line to straighten. It's definitely light in weight. If you want totake a chance, I have it graphed c/w dimensions on Excel 4.0 and I couldsend it to you as an attachment.If you send a email message and don't get an answer quickly, I'm off for 10days of rainbow lip ripping action in southern Alberta. Be back on July 12.Apparently the water is aclearing and the golden stones aflying. Been doingtoo much of that brown/green drake stuff around here and need a break. Regards, Don Andersen At 09:13 30/06/96 -0400, you wrote: I have been looking for a couple of leonard tapers (38L and 38 1/2L). DOesanyone have them or know where I could look them up? I would also begrateful if someone could direct me to or provide me with a P. YoungPerfectionist taper. What experiences does anyone have with either of the leonards or theirmodifications? I'm primarily looking for a light rod for tiny BWOs and midgesetc. at fairly long distances (say 40'). Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks, Mark M. Freed