from ccurrojr@voyager.net Wed Nov 1 00:37:57 2000 eA16bvG28081 Subject: SRG 2000 creator="4D4F5353" Listers Its that time again to share some pictures from the Southern RodmakersGathering which was held last week. Hope you enjoy them. The address is:http://www.curro.net/SRG/index.html Best to all,Charlie Curro from ajthramer@hotmail.com Wed Nov 1 01:03:36 2000 eA173ZG28658 Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:03:32 -0800 Wed, 01 Nov 2000 07:03:32 GMT Subject: Thramer 444 FILETIME=[D8ABAF90:01C043D1] I would like to thank Bob for wise use of the little 444 rod, I am disturbed I rarely make a 3wt rod and won't make a 1-2 wt rod. I think that such 'trick rods' are not using the benefits of cane properly. I have always thought that the inherent low line speed allows the use of a heavier line weight than plastic, thus allowing us to play the fish with due alacrity. I also use true barbless hooks as often as I can, even the resulting 'bump' after smashing the barb is an impediment to releasing the fish. No, I am not a closet PETA whacko anthromorphising the game into a lovable Disneyesque caricature. I have raised, hunted, killed and eaten enough critters to not play into such idiocy, but like all true sportsmen I believe in conservation, wise use and enough respect for the quarry to use adequate tools for the job while minimizing the impact as much as I can.A.J.thramer_________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. from iank@ts.co.nz Wed Nov 1 01:30:06 2000 eA17U4G29359 Subject: Re: SRG 2000 Charlie, What a great set of pictures ! Iank----- Original Message ----- Subject: SRG 2000 Listers Its that time again to share some pictures from the Southern RodmakersGathering which was held last week. Hope you enjoy them. The address is:http://www.curro.net/SRG/index.html Best to all,Charlie Curro from caneman@clnk.com Wed Nov 1 01:41:12 2000 eA17fCG29626 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Catch and release This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_028B_01C043A4.18CA9100 Brian,First and foremost... barbless hooks. They lessen the damage to a =fish and they make the release much quicker and safer. Second, if the ="battle" lasts too long or the water is warmer than normal, just give =the rod a good YANK and break the fish off. A fish is more likely to =survive with a errant fly in his mouth than he is to survive a long =fight. Third... Wet your hands before ever touching a fish. This will =reduce the damage to the natural "slime" on a fish's body. This slime =protects him from the environment and dry hands damage it greatly. =Fourth, revive the fish before you release him. Trout, especially, =become very depleted during a fight and need to be revived to the point =that they can swim away with the same vigor that they hit the fly with. =Finally, if you see you have damaged a fish beyond repair... in other =words, if it is obvious that the fish will not live, as one that has ="swallowed" the fly or one that has been gill hooked, then, for fishings =sake, keep that fish. Although I am 99.99% of the time a "C&R" =fisherman, I do believe that there are times you should harvest a fish, =and when one is irrepairbly depleted from the fight or physically =damaged, then that is the time to harvest.Feel fortunate that damaged jaws is all you see. In my part of the =world, we see fish floating downstream, belly up, because some see fit =to pour things such as bleach or ammonia in the water in order to ="harvest" their limit. What they do is harvest 6, kill 60... =Oklahoma's Department of Wildlife Conseration is more concerned about =the tourist trade (those that come here to catch fish) than they are =about the conservation of a valuable resourse. I would feel proud to be =able to release more fish than I can, but many are in terrible physical =condition due to the neglect on the part of the ODWC. Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: Brian Creek Date: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 6:45 PMSubject: Catch and release Reed has often made the point to any of us that would listen that =catch and release isn't that nice to fish. Last summer I fished hard = sores and various deformities on their mouths. I was really bummed out. =My question is, what does everybody else do wrt catch and release to =lessen impact on the fishies? Brian ------=_NextPart_000_028B_01C043A4.18CA9100 Brian, or the water is warmer than normal, just give the rod a good YANK and = fight and need to be revived to the point that they can swim away with = fish beyond repair... in other words, if it is obvious that the fish = live, as one that has "swallowed" the fly or one that has been = the time a "C&R" fisherman, I do believe that there are = should harvest a fish, and when one is irrepairbly depleted from the = physically damaged, then that is the time to harvest. fortunate = downstream, belly up, because some see fit to pour things such as bleach = Conseration is more concerned about the tourist trade (those that come = catch fish) than they are about the conservation of a valuable = would feel proud to be able to release more fish than I can, but many = ODWC. my = now... Later,Bob -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, October 31, 2000 6:45 PMSubject: Catch releaseFirst, sorry for the non-rodmaking = but. . . . Reed has often made the point to = summer I fished hard for 10 days around Colorado Springs, and caught = of fish with big sores and various deformities on their = do wrt catch and release to lessen impact on the =fishies? Brian ------=_NextPart_000_028B_01C043A4.18CA9100-- from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Nov 1 04:36:12 2000 eA1AaCG01153 Organization: ProLog Subject: Catch & Release Just as important as barbless hooks and gentel handling of the trout isto limit how many fish I catch. I know we are releasing most if not allthe fish we catch but how many fish do we need to catch to prove thepoint. If the fishing is easy and especially during a hatch after Istuck 8 or so fish I call it quits. This may take an hour in Montana,three in Pennsylvania and New York or twelve in New Jersey. Marty from zimmer@adams.net Wed Nov 1 05:57:04 2000 eA1Bv3G01909 (qmailr@216.138.0.16) Subject: Charlie Curro's SRG2000 pic's This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C043C8.8A2562C0 Charlie, what a great layout, and a great job! I wasn't able to attend =but you sure captured the feel and flavor of the gathering...makes me =want to attend all the more next year! Thank you for sharing it, =Sincerely Randy immerman ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C043C8.8A2562C0 Charlie, what a great layout, and a great job! I = to attend but you sure captured the feel and flavor of the = ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C043C8.8A2562C0-- from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Nov 1 07:29:55 2000 eA1DTtG03374 [63.52.25.61] (may be forged)) Subject: SRG 2000 Charlie:Great pics. Thanks for sharing. Wish I could'a been there.Ed from sniderja@email.uc.edu Wed Nov 1 08:23:22 2000 eA1ENLG04985 Subject: Re: Catch & Release I have been fortunate to be involved in fishing for arctic grayling severalweeks each summer for the past 13 years as part of an aquatic ecologyresearch project in far northern Alaska. I personally have caught, measured, weighted, tagged and released well over 6000 grayling during this period. I know when a fish is a recapture because of the presence of the tag. I know if the fish has never been caught byanyone, likely ever, because it will not have a tag. My personal notesindicate that I have recaptured hundreds of these fish over and over and over and over again. Without checking my notes, Irecall catching at least several dozens of the same fish each year over aten year period. My partner has done the same. (Many of the adults have been age dated to be up to 12-14years old). We fish using barbless hooks, small dry flies (90% of the time) from #16's up through #22's. During the occasional high waterperiod, we are forced to go to large cranefly larvae nymphs for a day or so. Wesimply can't lay off and not fish during this period because this project dependsentirely upon the fish we catch, and we have a limited window in which to do this. Thesefish range up to 18" and 2 lbs in wt. The average is ca. 15". A 40-60 fish dayis not unusual. Occasionally, a fish will be foul hooked in/near the eye. We don't like it, don't want to do it, but it happens. Yet I have recaptured such one-eyed fish over and over during a period of several years. They DO havean excellent survival rate. The remainder of these fish, fair hooked, show absolutely no signs oflip/mouth damage. This, using rods from 8' in length to A.J. Thramer's 4'4" 4 wt. Iseem to be able to land these particular fish as quickly with the 4'4" aswith a longer rod under the conditions I am fishing. The greatest damage to these fish are the tags used for tagging. They leave large open sores under the dorsal fin of the fish. Yet I have recapturedhundreds of these same fish over a period of many years. If the tag pulls out, one can see the small, scaled-over scar where the tag was attached. However, becauseofthese open sores we have gone to using electronic lip tags and internal tags that areread with a scanner. How is this catch and release done? Well, it is done applying the very techniques all of you have so aptly described. Granted, these fish are fished for by only two fly fishers each summer, sothey do not get pounded by hundreds of fly fishers. Yet I will catch the same fish over and over during a summer's trip-- many times within 30-45 minutes ofthe last time I caught the very same fish. I have fished during heavy droughtyears and during winter-like summers with similar survival rates.Catch and release can work if applied wisely and intelligently and with a little bit of thought. Perhaps I should be more specific and say that,under the conditions under which these fish are caught, catch and releasedoes work.I do not mean for any of the above to be remotely controversial, nor is itmy intent to add fuel to a particular fire. I provide this because it is in support with what the majority of you have said re catch & release. Admittedly, this is not a run-of-the-mill heavily fished trout stream.However, it is one of the very few instances where C & R can at least be verified based on over a decade of carefully recorded data. Unfortunately, since I am notthe PI for the project but only the fly fisher , I am not permitted topublish the data with regard to our catch and release analyses. I haveencouraged the group to do so, but with little success thus far.Jerry Snider from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Nov 1 08:39:25 2000 eA1EdMG05883 Subject: Re: Catch & Release Jerry,it's good to see the jaundiced eye I've always cast to the concept heavyc&r is wrong or at least can be wrong provided the fish are handledpropperly, I'd very much prefer to be mistaken in my belief in thisparticular case than correct if only because I think the trout deservebetter than to be considered as not much more than expendible toys with ashortened expected life span through stress. I know during the middle of the season to catch a large % of Dolphin Fishwith broken off gear is very common so it's obvious fish can take quite alot if they are fit and healthy in the first place and the environmentallows the fish to recover, my only problem with the idea is when it'sconducted in an industrial scale. Then again, as you suggest it may notactually do as much harm to the fish as I'd have thought. I would more thanhappily withdraw my comments if that is indeed the case. Tony At 09:21 AM 11/1/00 -0500, Jerry Snider wrote:I have been fortunate to be involved in fishing for arctic grayling severalweeks each summer for the past 13 years as part of an aquatic ecologyresearch project in far northern Alaska. I personally have caught, measured, weighted, tagged and released well over 6000 grayling during this period. I know when a fish is a recapturebecause of the presence of the tag. I know if the fish has never been caught byanyone, likely ever, because it will not have a tag. My personal notesindicate that I have recaptured hundreds of these fish over and over and over and over again. Without checking my notes, Irecall catching at least several dozens of the same fish each year over aten year period. My partner has done the same. (Many of the adults have been age dated to be up to 12- 14years old). We fish using barbless hooks, small dry flies (90% of the time) from #16's up through #22's. During the occasional high waterperiod, we are forced to go to large cranefly larvae nymphs for a day or so. Wesimply can't lay off and not fish during this period because this project dependsentirely upon the fish we catch, and we have a limited window in which to do this. Thesefish range up to 18" and 2 lbs in wt. The average is ca. 15". A 40-60 fish dayis not unusual. Occasionally, a fish will be foul hooked in/near the eye. We don't like it, don't want to do it, but it happens. Yet I have recaptured such one-eyed fish over and over during a period of several years. They DO havean excellent survival rate. The remainder of these fish, fair hooked, show absolutely no signs oflip/mouth damage. This, using rods from 8' in length to A.J. Thramer's 4'4" 4 wt. Iseem to be able to land these particular fish as quickly with the 4'4" aswith a longer rod under the conditions I am fishing. The greatest damage to these fish are the tags used for tagging. Theyleave large open sores under the dorsal fin of the fish. Yet I have recapturedhundreds of these same fish over a period of many years. If the tag pulls out, one can see the small, scaled-over scar where the tag was attached. However, becauseofthese open sores we have gone to using electronic lip tags and internal tags that areread with a scanner. How is this catch and release done? Well, it is done applying the very techniques all of you have so aptly described. Granted, these fish are fished for by only two fly fishers each summer, sothey do not get pounded by hundreds of fly fishers. Yet I will catch the samefish over and over during a summer's trip-- many times within 30-45 minutes ofthe last time I caught the very same fish. I have fished during heavy droughtyears and during winter-like summers with similar survival rates.Catch and release can work if applied wisely and intelligently and with a little bit of thought. Perhaps I should be more specific and say that,under the conditions under which these fish are caught, catch and releasedoes work.I do not mean for any of the above to be remotely controversial, nor is itmy intent to add fuel to a particular fire. I provide this because it is in support with what the majority of you have said re catch & release. Admittedly, this is not a run-of-the-mill heavily fished trout stream.However, it is one of the very few instances where C & R can at least be verified based on over a decade of carefully recorded data. Unfortunately, since I am notthe PI for the project but only the fly fisher , I am not permitted topublish the data with regard to our catch and release analyses. I haveencouraged the group to do so, but with little success thus far.Jerry Snider /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from sniderja@email.uc.edu Wed Nov 1 08:47:58 2000 eA1ElwG06311 Subject: Re: Catch & Release Tony, your comments are well taken. Please remember, I can only speak forC& R under the limited conditions I have described. I usually spend a monthin Montana (mostly on the Missouri River) and can state that I, too, haveseen stressed trout, large trout with torn jaws, one-eyed fish, dead fish,etc. I don't know whether these are primarily due to the use of large woolybuggers and streamers fished from drift boats, from the hardware slingers,or perhaps from dry fly fishers. If I sound as if I am discriminating here,please forgive me--I simply do not know. Likely it is just as well frommany fishers who have not yet learned to handle fish properly. What I amsaying is that you likely are also correct--we simply are speaking ofdifferent conditions. However, in my restricted, specialized instance wehappen to have good data to support our claim.J. SniderAt 10:38 PM 11/01/2000 +0800, Tony Young wrote:Jerry,it's good to see the jaundiced eye I've always cast to the concept heavyc&r is wrong or at least can be wrong provided the fish are handledpropperly, I'd very much prefer to be mistaken in my belief in thisparticular case than correct if only because I think the trout deservebetter than to be considered as not much more than expendible toys with ashortened expected life span through stress. I know during the middle of the season to catch a large % of Dolphin Fishwith broken off gear is very common so it's obvious fish can take quite alot if they are fit and healthy in the first place and the environmentallows the fish to recover, my only problem with the idea is when it'sconducted in an industrial scale. Then again, as you suggest it may notactually do as much harm to the fish as I'd have thought. I would more thanhappily withdraw my comments if that is indeed the case. Tony At 09:21 AM 11/1/00 -0500, Jerry Snider wrote:I have been fortunate to be involved in fishing for arctic grayling severalweeks each summer for the past 13 years as part of an aquatic ecologyresearch project in far northern Alaska. I personally have caught, measured, weighted, tagged and released wellover 6000 grayling during this period. I know when a fish is a recapturebecause of the presence of the tag. I know if the fish has never been caught byanyone, likely ever, because it will not have a tag. My personal notesindicate that I have recaptured hundreds of these fish over and over and over and over again. Without checking my notes, Irecall catching at least several dozens of the same fish each year over aten year period. My partner has done the same. (Many of the adults have been age dated to be up to 12- 14years old). We fish using barbless hooks, small dry flies (90% of the time) from #16's up through #22's. During the occasional high waterperiod, we are forced to go to large cranefly larvae nymphs for a day or so. Wesimply can't lay off and not fish during this period because this project dependsentirely upon the fish we catch, and we have a limited window in which to do this. Thesefish range up to 18" and 2 lbs in wt. The average is ca. 15". A 40-60 fish dayis not unusual. Occasionally, a fish will be foul hooked in/near the eye. We don't like it, don't want to do it, but it happens. Yet I have recaptured such one-eyed fish over and over during a period of several years. They DOhavean excellent survival rate. The remainder of these fish, fair hooked, show absolutely no signs oflip/mouth damage. This, using rods from 8' in length to A.J. Thramer's 4'4" 4 wt. Iseem to be able to land these particular fish as quickly with the 4'4" aswith a longer rod under the conditions I am fishing. The greatest damage to these fish are the tags used for tagging. Theyleave large open sores under the dorsal fin of the fish. Yet I have recapturedhundreds of these same fish over a period of many years. If the tag pulls out, one can see the small, scaled-over scar where the tag was attached. However,because ofthese open sores we have gone to using electronic lip tags and internal tags that areread with a scanner. How is this catch and release done? Well, it is done applying the very techniques all of you have so aptly described. Granted, these fish are fished for by only two fly fishers each summer, sothey do not get pounded by hundreds of fly fishers. Yet I will catch the samefish over and over during a summer's trip-- many times within 30-45 minutesof the last time I caught the very same fish. I have fished during heavy droughtyears and during winter-like summers with similar survival rates.Catch and release can work if applied wisely and intelligently and with a little bit of thought. Perhaps I should be more specific and say that,under the conditions under which these fish are caught, catch and releasedoes work.I do not mean for any of the above to be remotely controversial, nor is itmy intent to add fuel to a particular fire. I provide this because it is in support with what the majority of you have said re catch & release. Admittedly, this is not a run-of-the-mill heavily fished trout stream.However, it is one of the very few instances where C & R can at least be verified basedon over a decade of carefully recorded data. Unfortunately, since I am notthe PI for the project but only the fly fisher , I am not permitted topublish the data with regard to our catch and release analyses. I haveencouraged the group to do so, but with little success thus far.Jerry Snider /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Nov 1 08:55:25 2000 eA1EtOG06771 Wed, 1 Nov 2000 06:55:19 -0800 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Catch & Release Jerry,Let me be the first to offer my services as your unpaid assistant. All youhave to do is provide a plane ticket and room and board, and I'll handle therest. Heck, I'll even provide my own rods, reels, waders, and flies. Sacrificing, for the good of science, Harry Jerry Snider wrote: I have been fortunate to be involved in fishing for arctic grayling severalweeks each summer for the past 13 years as part of an aquatic ecology from jhat@cbt.net Wed Nov 1 09:10:45 2000 eA1FAjG07486 Wed, 1 Nov 2000 09:14:26 -0600 Charlie Curro Subject: SRG 2000 Charlie;The pictures are great !!!.ThanksJim \.Jim from zimmer@adams.net Wed Nov 1 09:17:07 2000 eA1FH6G07942 (qmailr@216.138.0.16) Subject: Re: Jerry Snider/catch and release This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C043E4.78101BE0 Artic Grayling/10 years/hundreds of fish: you are indeed a lucky man:) =:) :) ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C043E4.78101BE0 Artic Grayling/10 years/hundreds of fish: you are = lucky man:) :) :) ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C043E4.78101BE0-- from owen@davies.mv.com Wed Nov 1 09:23:51 2000 eA1FNoG08258 Subject: Re: Catch and release Among other useful comments, Bob Maulucci observed: Another thing that kills a lot of fish is when people fish in water too warm for such activities. When I scout out the fall steelhead streams, I know there are fish there in July. I also know that hooking one in that warmer water would seal the fishes doom. The other thing I worry about is just the opposite: Catching them inthe winter. I probably wouldn't do much winter fishing anyway; coldand I don't get along. But what really stops me is that fish must reallybe right on the edge during winter, with just enough of a positiveenergy balance to survive. It seems all too likely that the stress ofa fight would be enough to tip them onto the nonviable side of the line.Anyone have any thoughts about this? Or, better yet, any hard data? Owen Davies from Canerods@aol.com Wed Nov 1 09:24:56 2000 eA1FOtG08390 Subject: Re: Catch and release All, One thing that surely can be said about catch-n-kill, there's no need to worry about the survival rates. I was brought up by a father that didn't believe in not taking his limit. The thought of going on a fishing trip, and spending hundreds of dollars to do so, without coming home with the limit of fish just didn't enter into his mind-set. Fish were for eating. Pretty much a Ernest Hemingway view of the world. But that was the 1950's and fish were plentiful. My need to go fishing has much less to do with catching and eating a fish than it does with getting away from the daily zoo. To be able to stand in a trout stream, be it the Firehole River or Piru Creek (a local pi$$water stream) doesn't much matter to me. It's the fact that there isn't 10,000 other people looking over my shoulder that means so much to me. Half the time I don't even care if I see the fish. If I hook it, play it for a few seconds, I'll sometimes just do a LDR just to get the hook free. Although I also recall standing in the middle of said Piru Creek with a beautiful little wild, and some would say native, rainbow decked out in drop- dead beutiful spawning colors. Held perhaps much too long before I realized that it's time to put it back and then the joy of knowing that it really wasn't all that long as the fish zoomed off into the depths of the hole. I fish for the memories. Don Burns from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Nov 1 09:54:42 2000 eA1FseG09794 Wed, 1 Nov 2000 23:54:35 +0800 Subject: Re: Catch and release What Don said, except Don's said it without the naval gazing. Tony At 10:24 AM 11/1/00 -0500, Canerods@aol.com wrote:All, One thing that surely can be said about catch-n-kill, there's no need to worry about the survival rates. I was brought up by a father that didn't believe in not taking his limit.The thought of going on a fishing trip, and spending hundreds of dollars to do so, without coming home with the limit of fish just didn't enter into his mind-set. Fish were for eating. Pretty much a Ernest Hemingway view ofthe world. But that was the 1950's and fish were plentiful. My need to go fishing has much less to do with catching and eating a fish than it does with getting away from the daily zoo. To be able to stand in a trout stream, be it the Firehole River or Piru Creek (a local pi$$water stream) doesn't much matter to me. It's the fact that there isn't 10,000 other people looking over my shoulder that means so much to me. Half the time I don't even care if I see the fish. If I hook it, play it for a few seconds, I'll sometimes just do a LDR just to get the hook free. Although I also recall standing in the middle of said Piru Creek with a beautiful little wild, and some would say native, rainbow decked out in drop- dead beutiful spawning colors. Held perhaps much too long before I realized that it's time to put it back and then the joy of knowing that it really wasn't all that long as the fish zoomed off into the depths of the hole. I fish for the memories. Don Burns /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Wed Nov 1 10:17:22 2000 eA1GHHG10807 Subject: Re: Catch and release eA1GHMG10810 Hi all, I thought that I would put in my 2 cents worth here.First, my background: BA in Ichthyology U Maine/Orono, over 17 years ofexperience in fish research and aquaculture after college, now a fly shopowner. Go figure!! I spent the last nine years working with Atlantic salmon as a fish healthspecialist. Let me touch on some issues: 1."If fish could scream." Fish can't feel pain, so even if they could scream they wouldn't. They canfeel "pressure" and that explains why a fish will fight when you applypressure and quite often will stop running on a slack line. 2. The low temperature issue.Being cold blooded, a fish's metabolism slows down at low temperatures.Water also holds more oxygen at low temperatures. So, it is actually saferto fight fish in winter as long as you don't expose their gills to sub freezingtemperatures. 3. The high temperature issue.The reverse is true of the low temperature state. High metabolism and lowoxygen affinity. This makes a "double whammy." So the general consensusthat it is important not to overplay a fish in warm water is right. 4. The handling issue.A fish's first defense is it's slime layer. It's second is it's scales. When wehandle fish (especially with dry hands), we strip off some of this slime andpossibly scales. This leaves it open to both bacterial and fungal infection.We should handle fish as little as possible and if using a net, use one withsoft, fine mesh. 5. Hooks.There is not much real evidence to show that there is a statistical differencebetween barbed and barbless hooks. Our fishing experience tells us that it iseasier to release fish with a barbless hook-so we can go with our conscienceon that. Another thing about catch and release- we all seem to preach it, but there islittle being done about teaching it!!!!!! This is something that we should alladdress at out local TU, fishing club, Boy Scouts etc. etc. I think it isimportant that we show people "how" to catch and release, not just why!!!! Anyway, that is my say on the matter. Fire away!!!!!! John K. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Catch and release Among other useful comments, Bob Maulucci observed: Another thing that kills a lot of fish is when people fish in water too warm for such activities. When I scout out the fall steelhead streams, I know there are fish there in July. I also know that hooking one in that warmer water would seal the fishes doom. The other thing I worry about is just the opposite: Catching them inthe winter. I probably wouldn't do much winter fishing anyway; coldand I don't get along. But what really stops me is that fish must reallybe right on the edge during winter, with just enough of a positiveenergy balance to survive. It seems all too likely that the stress ofa fight would be enough to tip them onto the nonviable side of the line.Anyone have any thoughts about this? Or, better yet, any hard data? Owen Davies from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Nov 1 11:12:42 2000 eA1HCfG13113 with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 01 Nov 2000 09:14:41 -0800 Subject: Burl Cork eA1HCfG13114 How does the burl cork turn with sandpaper on a lathe? I'm referring to therubbery composite kind of burl cork rings. I'm not sure what they are madeup of. Do they shape nicely with sandpaper? The surface of regular corkgets very hot with the friction, and I'm wondering if the heat would have abad affect on whatever the rubbery synthetic material that is part of theburl cork. Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Nov 1 11:27:55 2000 eA1HRsG13612 Subject: Re: Catch and release Organization: GOULD Hi John and all,Your comments are very much appreciated John. I too think that each of usmust make more concentrated efforts to influence, teach and show otherswhyand how to catch and release. I believe it's especially important to do thiswith younger folks.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Catch and release Hi all, I thought that I would put in my 2 cents worth here.First, my background: BA in Ichthyology U Maine/Orono, over 17 years ofexperience in fish research and aquaculture after college, now a fly shopowner. Go figure!! I spent the last nine years working with Atlantic salmon as a fish healthspecialist. Let me touch on some issues: 1."If fish could scream."Fish can't feel pain, so even if they could scream they wouldn't. Theycan feel "pressure" and that explains why a fish will fight when you applypressure and quite often will stop running on a slack line. 2. The low temperature issue.Being cold blooded, a fish's metabolism slows down at low temperatures.Water also holds more oxygen at low temperatures. So, it is actually saferto fight fish in winter as long as you don't expose their gills to subfreezing temperatures. 3. The high temperature issue.The reverse is true of the low temperature state. High metabolism and lowoxygen affinity. This makes a "double whammy." So the general consensusthat it is important not to overplay a fish in warm water is right. 4. The handling issue.A fish's first defense is it's slime layer. It's second is it's scales.When we handle fish (especially with dry hands), we strip off some of thisslime and possibly scales. This leaves it open to both bacterial and fungalinfection.We should handle fish as little as possible and if using a net, use onewith soft, fine mesh. 5. Hooks.There is not much real evidence to show that there is a statisticaldifference between barbed and barbless hooks. Our fishing experience tellsus that it is easier to release fish with a barbless hook-so we can go withour conscience on that. Another thing about catch and release- we all seem to preach it, but thereis little being done about teaching it!!!!!! This is something that weshould all address at out local TU, fishing club, Boy Scouts etc. etc. Ithink it is important that we show people "how" to catch and release, notjust why!!!! Anyway, that is my say on the matter. Fire away!!!!!! John K. ----- Original Message -----From: Owen Davies Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 10:23 AMSubject: Re: Catch and release Among other useful comments, Bob Maulucci observed: Another thing that kills a lot of fish is when people fish in watertoowarm for such activities. When I scout out the fall steelhead streams,Iknow there are fish there in July. I also know that hooking one inthatwarmer water would seal the fishes doom. The other thing I worry about is just the opposite: Catching them inthe winter. I probably wouldn't do much winter fishing anyway; coldand I don't get along. But what really stops me is that fish mustreallybe right on the edge during winter, with just enough of a positiveenergy balance to survive. It seems all too likely that the stress ofa fight would be enough to tip them onto the nonviable side of the line.Anyone have any thoughts about this? Or, better yet, any hard data? Owen Davies from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Nov 1 11:28:02 2000 eA1HS1G13621 Wed, 1 Nov 2000 09:27:46 -0800 Organization: First Baptist Church Subject: Re: Burl Cork CHRISTOPHER MCDOWELL wrote: How does the burl cork turn with sandpaper on a lathe? I'm referring tothe rubbery composite kind of burl cork rings. I'm not sure what they aremade up of. Do they shape nicely with sandpaper? The surface of regularcork gets very hot with the friction, and I'm wondering if the heat would havea bad affect on whatever the rubbery synthetic material that is part of theburl cork. Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu Chris,The burl does just fine on a lathe. It is mostly glue, probably some sort ofepoxy resin is my best guess. It is tougher than specie cork, and you canhear and feel the difference as the grip spins under an abrasive. I like theway it looks, and tend to use one 1/4" ring in all my grips. I do it for tworeasons - first, to give my grips a unique look; and second, to give a littletoughersurface right under the ball of the casting thumb and prevent wear and tearon the grip. One thing I have found is that the burled cork takes stain quitenicely, and with some caution one can create quite a unique look. Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Nov 1 11:49:59 2000 eA1HnwG14471 09:50:00 PST Subject: Re: Burl Cork christopher, it cuts slower so if you make them partof a seat with standard cork care has to be taken notto scallop the standard cork ring on either side ofthe composite. timothy --- CHRISTOPHER MCDOWELL wrote:How does the burl cork turn with sandpaper on alathe? I'm referring to the rubbery composite kindof burl cork rings. I'm not sure what they are madeup of. Do they shape nicely with sandpaper? Thesurface of regular cork gets very hot with thefriction, and I'm wondering if the heat would have abad affect on whatever the rubbery syntheticmaterial that is part of the burl cork. Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!? from homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.http://experts.yahoo.com/ from owen@davies.mv.com Wed Nov 1 12:04:22 2000 eA1I4LG14946 Subject: Re: Catch and release Among other comments, John Kenealy pointed out: 2. The low temperature issue.Being cold blooded, a fish's metabolism slows down at low temperatures.Water also holds more oxygen at low temperatures. So, it is actuallysaferto fight fish in winter as long as you don't expose their gills to subfreezing temperatures. I understand the first two points. (Actually, I was a biochemistry majormyself, long ago;we got into this sort of thing in the bio and chem classes.) What I'm notsure about isthe conclusion. Seems to me that we're looking at the ratio of food toneed, and whilethe need goes down, I'm worried that availability may go down even more inthe winter:less access to nymphs, which seem less likely to move around in colderwater; muchless access to emergers and adult flies; virtually no access toterrestrials; and lessaccess to smaller fish, which aren't any more interested in spending theenergy tomove around than the catchable sizes are. My concern is that the negativesin theavailability column may outweigh the benefits in generally reducedenergydemand.In this context, fighting our rods pretty much has to represent aproportionally largerdemand on available energy supply, with less opportunity to replenishwhateverreserve fish carry with them for high-use periods. I find it easy toimagine a long fighttipping the balance against the fish's survival. Whether it would actuallydo so, I don'tknow. But as a non- keeper of fish, I'm concerned enough about this issue sothatI can't see my way clear to take the chance of putting them at risk withouthard infoon the subject. Gotta say, too, that I'm not sure they can't feel pain. Sounds like thesort of positionheld on too little evidence by teachers old enough to have been influenced remnants of Victorian arrogance and passed on out of habit. (My own ratherdismalanalysis has always been that there probably are two capacities that animalsbeyond the complexity of, say, flatworms, can't do without -- the ones thatoperateto keep us out of trouble, or notify us that we've blundered into it: painand fear.Nobody ever said I was an optimist!) Just for a start, I'll do a search forfish andSubstance P. Owen Davies from CALucker@aol.com Wed Nov 1 12:06:04 2000 eA1I64G15079 Subject: Re: Catch and release It's simple. Don't use a net and don't take the fish out of the water. It's worked for me for decades on big fish in the Sierras unless the water is so low I cannot reach the water from the undercut banks. Then I may need to guide the fish a ways to find a reachable spot. If you are brave enough, you may simply use the tip top as the hookdisgorger from nine feet away, but perhaps leave that to the graphite guys.It does not matter how they're designed, nets are not good for fish and taking a fish out of the water is worse than taking a non-trailer boat out of the water.Chris Lucker from grau@buchlang.com Wed Nov 1 12:11:50 2000 eA1IBnG15408 Subject: C&R This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C04434.B72642A0 Thanks Tony for the interesting thoughts! Here in Switzerland many fishers do not practice c & r. Once we do not =havemany flyfishers (but even more & more), second our law claims that ispossible to take 6 salmonids per day. Well, first you must catch 6 =salmonidsper day, but it`is possible sometimes. Like in the USA we have severalcountys, we call it "Cantons", and each Canton has his own law. In mostcantons barbless hooks are a must, also for other fishers than =flyfishers,except in lakes, where we catch a lot of "Whitefish" (Coregonus andSalvelinus). Myself i do smetimes c& r, sometimes also not, i like to eat trout andgrayling, more than any fish from the sea.In my erlier years as fisherman i was a lot of "match fishing" in =britishstyle. We had a lake here in the capital city berne and fished for bream =andcarp. We "shooted" tons of feed in the lake for make the fishes hungry =andfished with barbs on hooks and with worms. Well, we caught a lot. Most =of usput the fishes back, cause the fishes was not very good for eat, the =waterwas shallow and warm, had a lot of slick in - we said the fish are"smelling" . We had a lot of "hikers2 around this lake, a wonderful place in the =city.The people was always wondering that we practice c&r, and often claims ="Hey,you will make pain to the fishes, why you catch them and don`t eat it?" Some months later c& r was forbidden cause the many "cruelty to animals"reactions from the people. Today i say also - the hunter can`t shot for "pleasure" on animals,example - shot with false munition or (sorry,, i do not know the englishexpression) "munition who makes the animals sleep not dead". If i go to =thewaters and do c&r, i play with the creature. I make pain to any fish, i =playwith his life. Sudies from american and european universitys claims, =thatmost fish survive after catching with barbless hooks, like flyfishers =usedthem. The university of zurich says ca. 70% will survive, if the hook =entryin the mouth ( the wound) is very small, the fish is taken wit wet hands =ando not show any blooding, and do not have a lot of stress. That`s the =otherside of c&r. Well, sometimes i do not know if the trout i catch will =havethe right size for taking at home ( here in most waters a size from 22cmlenght is claimed in mountain streams, cause with this size the fish had =achance to lay eggs minimal once in his life), and so i "must do" some =c&r,if the fish is to small. Some new laws in some "cantons" claims,if the =fishhas the right size, he "must" be taken, also if he`s bleeding anywhere,cause if not, he will had a short and miserable life with the wound(s)afterwards. In Germany a great discussion is coming now in angling-magazines about =c& r.the pro and against will be spoken. Seems that c&r here do not make =friendsof this sporting tradition coming from england and the US.A lot think not "taking fish" is the problem of less fishes in our =river,the reason are the lot of rivers " made straight", and the lot ofPowerstations working with the water from the rivers. Like i said - myself sometimes take fish, sometimes not. I i take them, =i doit with no bad consience, if i take them not, more and more with a bad =one.Otherwise, i i have taken my two fishes (one for me, one for my wife) i =donot have any problems to stop the fishing to the next fishing trip. Okey - that`s only from my opinion. Sincerly Stefan ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C04434.B72642A0 Thanks Tony for the interesting = Switzerland many fishers do not practice c & r. Once we do not = flyfishers (but even more & more), second our law claims that = to take 6 salmonids per day. Well, first you must catch 6 = but it`is possible sometimes. Like in the USA we have = call it "Cantons", and each Canton has his own law. In mostcantons = hooks are a must, also for other fishers than flyfishers,except in = where we catch a lot of "Whitefish" (Coregonus = i do smetimes c& r, sometimes also not, i like to eat trout = more than any fish from the sea.In my erlier years as fisherman i = of "match fishing" in britishstyle. We had a lake here in the = berne and fished for bream andcarp. We "shooted" tons of feed in the = Well, we caught a lot. Most of usput the fishes back, cause the = not very good for eat, the waterwas shallow and warm, had a lot of = - we said the fish are"smelling" .We had a lot of "hikers2 = this lake, a wonderful place in the city.The people was always = that we practice c&r, and often claims "Hey,you will make pain = fishes, why you catch them and don`t eat it?"Some months later= was forbidden cause the many "cruelty to animals"reactions from people.Today i say also - the hunter can`t shot for "pleasure" = animals,example - shot with false munition or (sorry,, i do not know = englishexpression) "munition who makes the animals sleep not dead". = to thewaters and do c&r, i play with the creature. I make pain = fish, i playwith his life. Sudies from american and european = claims, thatmost fish survive after catching with barbless hooks, = flyfishers usedthem. The university of zurich says ca. 70% will = the hook entryin the mouth ( the wound) is very small, the fish is = wet hands ando not show any blooding, and do not have a lot of = That`s the otherside of c&r. Well, sometimes i do not know if = i catch will havethe right size for taking at home ( here in most = size from 22cmlenght is claimed in mountain streams, cause with this = the fish had achance to lay eggs minimal once in his life), and so i = do" some c&r,if the fish is to small. Some new laws in some = claims,if the fishhas the right size, he "must" be taken, also if = bleeding anywhere,cause if not, he will had a short and miserable = the wound(s)afterwards.In Germany a great discussion is = in angling-magazines about c& r.the pro and against will be = Seems that c&r here do not make friendsof this sporting = from england and the US.A lot think not "taking fish" is the problem = fishes in our river,the reason are the lot of rivers " made = the lot ofPowerstations working with the water from the = i said - myself sometimes take fish, sometimes not. I i take them, i = one.Otherwise, i i have taken my two fishes (one for me, one for my = opinion.SincerlyStefan ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C04434.B72642A0-- from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Wed Nov 1 12:36:26 2000 eA1IaPG16584 Subject: Re: Catch and release eA1IaQG16585 Hi Owen, Availability doesn't go down- the benthic invertebrates are still there,likewise other prey species of fish. the difference is that hatch activity isdiminished. What food that is eaten takes longer to digest since themetabolism is slower, hence the need to eat is diminished. I have personally done experiments with various species of fish in college(Iknow it was a while ago, but hardly Victorian!!!!!!!). Without going into toomuch detail, it is possible to stimulate nerves of living fish and compare thereaction to other vertebrates. The nervous system of fish, and especiallysalmonids(a very primitive form of teleost fish) is rudimentary compared tohigher vertebrates, such as humans ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Catch and release Among other comments, John Kenealy pointed out: 2. The low temperature issue.Being cold blooded, a fish's metabolism slows down at low temperatures.Water also holds more oxygen at low temperatures. So, it is actuallysaferto fight fish in winter as long as you don't expose their gills to subfreezing temperatures. I understand the first two points. (Actually, I was a biochemistry majormyself, long ago;we got into this sort of thing in the bio and chem classes.) What I'm notsure about isthe conclusion. Seems to me that we're looking at the ratio of food toneed, and whilethe need goes down, I'm worried that availability may go down even more inthe winter:less access to nymphs, which seem less likely to move around in colderwater; muchless access to emergers and adult flies; virtually no access toterrestrials; and lessaccess to smaller fish, which aren't any more interested in spending theenergy tomove around than the catchable sizes are. My concern is that thenegativesin theavailability column may outweigh the benefits in generally reduced energydemand.In this context, fighting our rods pretty much has to represent aproportionally largerdemand on available energy supply, with less opportunity to replenishwhateverreserve fish carry with them for high-use periods. I find it easy toimagine a long fighttipping the balance against the fish's survival. Whether it would actuallydo so, I don'tknow. But as a non- keeper of fish, I'm concerned enough about this issuesothatI can't see my way clear to take the chance of putting them at risk withouthard infoon the subject. Gotta say, too, that I'm not sure they can't feel pain. Sounds like thesort of positionheld on too little evidence by teachers old enough to have been influenced remnants of Victorian arrogance and passed on out of habit. (My ownratherdismalanalysis has always been that there probably are two capacities thatanimalsbeyond the complexity of, say, flatworms, can't do without -- the ones thatoperateto keep us out of trouble, or notify us that we've blundered into it: painand fear.Nobody ever said I was an optimist!) Just for a start, I'll do a search forfish andSubstance P. Owen Davies from owen@davies.mv.com Wed Nov 1 12:36:28 2000 eA1IaRG16589 Subject: Re: C&R Stefan Grau observed: Some new laws in some "cantons" claims,if the fishhas the right size, he "must" be taken, also if he`s bleeding anywhere,cause if not, he will had a short and miserable life with the wound(s)afterwards. Gee. They don't feel pain, and apparently they don't clot, either.It's a miracle the poor, ill-equipped little beggars survive at all! Owen Davies from sniderja@email.uc.edu Wed Nov 1 12:38:56 2000 eA1IctG16967 Subject: Re: Catch and release I believe that if one samples stomach analyses of winter-caught fish he/shemight actually be surprised at the amount of food that, indeed, isavailable--especially trout. It really is uncanny! Minnows, crane-flylarvae, midge larvae and adults simply out the old wazoo! (depending uponthe river, of course), snails, etc. With a low(er) metabolism, as much foodis not necessary. If you have never been in the middle of a humongous midgehatch in the middle of winter with fish rising in every direction (and noone else on the water!) , it is something to behold. Have been in HEAVYblue winged olive hatches in the middle of February with immense snowfalloccurring on the side. Great fun, and the fish seem to be as spunky whenreleased as when first hooked. I have gone with student classes to visitrivers in the winter to do kick seining and water quality analyses. Thestuff that shows up in the seine is impressive. However, having said this,I certainly wish to rethink my views on winter fishing based on your goodcomments.I for one certainly think that Reed Curry's article on catch and release isa thought-provoking one, and the rationale for c&r being introduced istruly insightful.I'm sure that John Kenealy can address the food/pain issues much farther. J. Snider At 01:04 PM 11/01/2000 -0500, Owen Davies wrote:Among other comments, John Kenealy pointed out: 2. The low temperature issue.Being cold blooded, a fish's metabolism slows down at low temperatures.Water also holds more oxygen at low temperatures. So, it is actuallysaferto fight fish in winter as long as you don't expose their gills to subfreezing temperatures. I understand the first two points. (Actually, I was a biochemistry majormyself, long ago;we got into this sort of thing in the bio and chem classes.) What I'm notsure about isthe conclusion. Seems to me that we're looking at the ratio of food toneed, and whilethe need goes down, I'm worried that availability may go down even more inthe winter:less access to nymphs, which seem less likely to move around in colderwater; muchless access to emergers and adult flies; virtually no access toterrestrials; and lessaccess to smaller fish, which aren't any more interested in spending theenergy tomove around than the catchable sizes are. My concern is that thenegativesin theavailability column may outweigh the benefits in generally reduced energydemand.In this context, fighting our rods pretty much has to represent aproportionally largerdemand on available energy supply, with less opportunity to replenishwhateverreserve fish carry with them for high-use periods. I find it easy toimagine a long fighttipping the balance against the fish's survival. Whether it would actuallydo so, I don'tknow. But as a non- keeper of fish, I'm concerned enough about this issuesothatI can't see my way clear to take the chance of putting them at risk withouthard infoon the subject. Gotta say, too, that I'm not sure they can't feel pain. Sounds like thesort of positionheld on too little evidence by teachers old enough to have been influenced remnants of Victorian arrogance and passed on out of habit. (My ownratherdismalanalysis has always been that there probably are two capacities thatanimalsbeyond the complexity of, say, flatworms, can't do without -- the ones thatoperateto keep us out of trouble, or notify us that we've blundered into it: painand fear.Nobody ever said I was an optimist!) Just for a start, I'll do a search forfish andSubstance P. Owen Davies from owen@davies.mv.com Wed Nov 1 12:56:58 2000 eA1IuvG17723 Subject: Re: Catch and release John Kenealy supplied more information about winter feeding and pain infish: Availability doesn't go down (etc.) from owen@davies.mv.com Wed Nov 1 13:00:05 2000 eA1J04G17921 Subject: Re: Catch and release To John Kenealy's comments on winter food supply, Jerry Snider added: I believe that if one samples stomach analyses of winter-caught fishhe/shemight actually be surprised at the amount of food that, indeed, isavailable (and so on.) Thanks, Jerry. You and John has done a lot to ease a long-standingconcern of mine. (Not that's it's likely to get me out into the cold anymore often than I absolutely have to leave a heated house.) Owen from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Wed Nov 1 13:57:00 2000 eA1JuxG20431 Subject: Re: Catch and release John, Regarding your comments on catch and release, this past week at theOzark FlyFishers meeting, Rich Ostoff, published author andflyfisherman from Southwestern Wisconsin did a presentation on thelimestone creeks in that part of the country. In a number of hisslides, he was shown holding big brown trout by the tail with the use ofa handkerchief so as not to touch the fish and affect the slime. Hiscomment was it is easier on the fish than a net, easier to carry vs. thenet, and allowed traction vs. the barehand. Do you have any comments on this technique, or would you makerecommendation? Kevin Buchanan from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Nov 1 14:05:00 2000 eA1K4wG20934 12:05:00 PST Subject: Re: Catch and release that "traction comes at a price for the fish! timothy --- "Kevin M. Buchanan" wrote:John, Regarding your comments on catch and release, thispast week at theOzark FlyFishers meeting, Rich Ostoff, publishedauthor andflyfisherman from Southwestern Wisconsin did apresentation on thelimestone creeks in that part of the country. In anumber of hisslides, he was shown holding big brown trout by thetail with the use ofa handkerchief so as not to touch the fish andaffect the slime. Hiscomment was it is easier on the fish than a net,easier to carry vs. thenet, and allowed traction vs. the barehand. Do you have any comments on this technique, or wouldyou makerecommendation? Kevin Buchanan ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!? from homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.http://experts.yahoo.com/ from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Wed Nov 1 14:19:56 2000 eA1KJuG21581 Subject: Re: Catch and release eA1KJuG21582 I find the easiest (for both human and fish) is to leave the fish in the waterand cradle it upside down (this works for trout only as far as I know). Thishas a calming effect on the fish and is easier on internal organs. Gentlydislodge the hook and turn fish rightside up and holding it by the caudalpeduncle, point downstream until it is ready to swim away. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Catch and release John, Regarding your comments on catch and release, this past week at theOzark FlyFishers meeting, Rich Ostoff, published author andflyfisherman from Southwestern Wisconsin did a presentation on thelimestone creeks in that part of the country. In a number of hisslides, he was shown holding big brown trout by the tail with the use ofa handkerchief so as not to touch the fish and affect the slime. Hiscomment was it is easier on the fish than a net, easier to carry vs. thenet, and allowed traction vs. the barehand. Do you have any comments on this technique, or would you makerecommendation? Kevin Buchanan from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Wed Nov 1 14:24:34 2000 eA1KOXG21838 Subject: Re: Catch and release Tim, Your comment is well taken. However, I failed to mention that thehandkerchief was wet, and like Rich Ostoff said, it is less of a "price"than the use of a net. Regards, Kevin Buchanan from caneman@clnk.com Wed Nov 1 14:49:23 2000 eA1KnMG23245 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Wed, 1 Nov 2000 14:42:32 -0600 Subject: Bamboo Ferrule Many at the SRG that cast the Bamboo Ferruled rod wanted to know how tomakeit. I said I would put together a html page on how I built it, thenremembered looked up one that I did a while back, before the rod wasfinished. Here is the url for it...http://members.clnk.com/caneman/ferrule.htmAs always, if anyone has questions about it, just email or call. Later,Bob from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Wed Nov 1 15:04:18 2000 eA1L4HG23983 Wed, 1 Nov 2000 16:04:19 -0500 Rod Makers List Serve Subject: RE: Bamboo Ferrule FASCINATING, as Mr. Spock used to say on the good old Enterprise. Iwouldn't mind saving the $30-40 I spend on Cortland ferrules, and the ideaof a bamboo/bamboo fit is certainly aesthetically pleasing. Query: thebamboo ferrule is lighter than a NS ferrule. Does that have an effect uponrod performance? Do you have to adjust your taper in some way? -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 3:44 PM Subject: Bamboo Ferrule Many at the SRG that cast the Bamboo Ferruled rod wanted to know how tomakeit. I said I would put together a html page on how I built it, thenremembered looked up one that I did a while back, before the rod wasfinished. Here is the url for it...http://members.clnk.com/caneman/ferrule.htmAs always, if anyone has questions about it, just email or call. Later,Bob from caneman@clnk.com Wed Nov 1 15:09:37 2000 eA1L9bG24336 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:02:46 -0600 Subject: SRG Stuff OK, Now don't get excited before you go there, but I just posted a few pics from the SRG at http://members.clnk.com/caneman/srg.htm Nothingspecial...the pictures I mean are nothing special and the format of the page isdefinitely indicative of a quickie. Charlie C. use any of these you want... i have some more, but haven'tscanned them in yet. Bob from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Nov 1 15:24:06 2000 eA1LO5G25182 13:23:58 PST Subject: Re: Catch and release kevin, hankie v.s. net....you may be right i neverthot about it. i carry a net and avoid using it if ican. sometimes i can't avoid it. the net keeps myvest from cutting into the back of my neck. i try tominimise physical contact with the fish and i wouldthink a hankie would make a great deal of contact withthe fish (and remove more slime) but i have not seenthe particular technique to which you are refering. mostly i have a distance at which i call "tag" andrelease him with out touching him or by grabbing thehook and turning it. timothy --- "Kevin M. Buchanan" wrote:Tim, Your comment is well taken. However, I failed tomention that thehandkerchief was wet, and like Rich Ostoff said, itis less of a "price"than the use of a net. Regards, Kevin Buchanan ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!? from homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.http://experts.yahoo.com/ from owen@davies.mv.com Wed Nov 1 19:05:10 2000 eA2159G02435 Subject: Lovstad beveler In the SRG 2000 photos, there's one shot of Morten Lovstad demonstratinga beveler he made. It looks significantly different from Al Medved's, perhaps even a final beveler, but the shot was taken from so far awaythat no details are visible. Can anyone supply information about it? Isthere a close-up shot available on the net? Perhaps drawings? Many thanks. Owen Davies from tcwege@worldnet.att.net Wed Nov 1 20:21:43 2000 eA22LgG04241 +0000 Subject: Video Tape of Beginners Classes at the SRG Hello All,I have eagerly viewed all pictures posted of the SRG and continued mypouting. Noticed that the beginners class was videotaped. Just wondering ifthe tapes might be available for sale to us unfortunate souls who could notmake it.Thanks,Tilo from owen@davies.mv.com Wed Nov 1 22:14:20 2000 eA24EKG06590 Subject: Re: Video Tape of Beginners Classes at the SRG Tilo Wege wrote: I have eagerly viewed all pictures posted of the SRG and continued mypouting. Noticed that the beginners class was videotaped. Just wonderingifthe tapes might be available for sale to us unfortunate souls who couldnotmake it. Let this be one vote in favor of duplicating them for those of us need them.A pain for whomever has to do it, I know, but it would be no end ofappreciated. Owen Davies from ddeloach@pcisys.net Thu Nov 2 00:04:31 2000 eA264UG08471 env- from (ddeloach@pcisys.net) Subject: Re: Nets was Catch & Release After a lifetime of FF I have come to an important conclusion: nets aren'tneccessary the vast majority of the time. I usually carry a net but I onlyuse it when the fish is so big that it is really needed. For me a net is"needed" when, if it wasn't used, the process of landing the fish in oneshand would take too long and thus endanger the fish's post-release survivalprobability. (Am I the only one who takes a few seconds longer to land a bigfish in my hand vs a net?) Or, in some cases, when I feel like I'mendangering the rod (especially applicable to old restorations that havecollectible value). As for maximizing trout survival after release, I like to land them with acupped hand (I absolutely DON'T grip the fish)Upside down to anethetize themwhile I remove the hook. Works great and I am hardly removing any slimewhenI do this. As for personal experience with C&R, how many of you have caughtthe same 17" rainbow three times in eight days, once on Saturday, thenSunday, then the following Sunday! Same spot I released him back into eachtime. I know it was the same fish because of his deformed jaw- -ironically itlooks like an old hook injury. I probably would have caught him every day ofthat week if I had been there! Also, at the risk of sounding sacreligious, I also prefer to use plasticrods for the majority of my fishing on "trophy" rivers here in Colorado.Less worry about breaking a great cane rod on a South Platte hog. But ofcourse when the dry flies are working right at dusk I get out the little6'6" 3 wt arundinaria amabilis and take my chances Don ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Catch & Release I have been fortunate to be involved in fishing for arctic graylingseveralweeks each summer for the past 13 years as part of an aquatic ecologyresearch project in far northern Alaska.I personally have caught, measured, weighted, tagged and released wellover6000 grayling during this period. I know when a fish is a recapturebecause ofthe presence of the tag. I know if the fish has never been caught byanyone, likely ever, because it will not have a tag. My personal notesindicate that I have recaptured hundreds of thesefish over and over and over and over again. Without checking my notes, Irecall catching at least several dozens of the same fish each year over aten year period. My partner hasdone the same. (Many of the adults have been age dated to be up to 12-14yearsold). We fish using barbless hooks, small dry flies (90% ofthe time) from #16's up through #22's. During the occasional high waterperiod,we are forced to go to large cranefly larvae nymphs for a day or so. Wesimplycan't lay off and not fish during this period because this project dependsentirely uponthe fish we catch, and we have a limited window in which to do this. Thesefishrange up to 18" and 2 lbs in wt. The average is ca. 15". A 40-60 fish dayis notunusual. Occasionally, a fish will be foul hooked in/near the eye. Wedon'tlike it, don't want to do it, but it happens. Yet I have recaptured suchone-eyed fish over and over during a period of several years. They DO havean excellent survival rate.The remainder of these fish, fair hooked, show absolutely no signs oflip/mouthdamage. This, using rods from 8' in length to A.J. Thramer's 4'4" 4 wt. Iseem to be able to land these particular fish as quickly with the 4'4" aswith a longer rod under the conditions I am fishing.The greatest damage to these fish are the tags used for tagging. Theyleavelarge open sores under the dorsal fin of the fish. Yet I have recapturedhundreds of thesesame fish over a period of many years. If the tag pulls out, one can seethe small, scaled-over scar where the tag was attached. However, becauseofthese opensores we have gone to using electronic lip tags and internal tags that areread with a scanner.How is this catch and release done? Well, it is done applying the verytechniques all of you have so aptly described.Granted, these fish are fished for by only two fly fishers each summer, sotheydo not get pounded by hundreds of fly fishers. Yet I will catch the samefishover and over during a summer's trip--many times within 30-45 minutes ofthelast time I caught the very same fish. I have fished during heavy droughtyears and during winter-like summers with similar survival rates.Catch and release can work if applied wisely and intelligently and with alittle bit of thought. Perhaps I should be more specific and say that,under the conditions under which these fish are caught, catch and releasedoes work.I do not mean for any of the above to be remotely controversial, nor is itmy intent to add fuel to a particular fire. I provide this because it isinsupport with what the majority of you have said re catch & release.Admittedly, this is not a run-of-the-mill heavily fished trout stream.However, it isone of the very few instances where C & R can at least be verified basedonover a decade of carefully recorded data. Unfortunately, since I am notthe PI for the project but only the fly fisher , I am not permitted topublish the data with regard to our catch and release analyses. I haveencouraged the group to do so, but with little success thus far.Jerry Snider from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Nov 2 05:15:55 2000 eA2BFqG11837 eA2BFax86475; Subject: Re: Catch and release Organization: vet Listmembers I just KNOW that I should shut up and keep out of this one, but I simplycannot. Here in Tasmania we are in the early throes of this argument aboutcatch- and-release, and there is some considerable (and unaccustomed)bitterness in the discussion, with a lot of friendships being shattered, andvery few cemented, over the issue. Unfortunately, to complicate the argument, we have no shortage of trouthere; what we have is a shortage of feed for those we have. Those of us whohave been fishing for a long time notice a drop in average size andcondition of the fish we catch. There have been some very sweeping andseminal changes in the use of riverside land over the past 20-25 years, withthe more traditional extensive grazing agricultural practices being forced insecticides, fertilisers, eutropification agents, and other agriculturalchemicals has gone up astronomically. The landowners who survive asgraziershave at the very least been forced to stock at a much higher rate,increasing the pressure on every acre - which means that the riversidestrips which in the 70's were wild tussocks and rough native grassland havenow been grazed down and replaced with clover and pasture species. The impact of these changes on invertebrate species which here, aselsewherein the world, are so essential to the wellbeing of salmonids, has beencatastrophic. Once, during a good hatch of black spinner on our MacquarieRiver you had to be bloody lucky not to choke on the damn things; and thetrout were obsessed. Now you can breathe freely. The spinner hatches still occur, thoughunbelievably diminished, the fish still feed; but the frenzy has gone, andto a very large degree so have the fat trout. Scale studies on the fish taken indicate that they are not necessarilyjuvenile or young fish. They are just malnourished. You do have to remember that in this part of the world trout are an exoticspecies; they hold to a very tenuous occupancy of their niche in our harshecosystem by the skin of their teeth. This is an old continent, worn down byaeons of wind and water, with rivers devoid of the stony, sparkling,oxygen-rich, icy torrents of the Americas; our Salmo, Salvelinus andOnchorhincus eke out a harsh scavenging survival by grazing on an alienfauna in a sluggish, warm, unfriendly aquatic environment, and life isbloody hard! We need more fish like we need a hole in the head! So who takes the side of catch-and-release here? All the damned neophytes is who! All the emerging guides, all the yuppies from our bigger mainland cities, all the people whose main source of anglinginformation is the North American angling press; all the people who tend towear their underpants outside their longjohns and pat themselves on thecollective back for being so current. The attitude is that "If it worked inthe US, it will work here", and unfortunately there are a lot of thesebuggers about. They see C&R as being absolutely necessary. Why? Because they don't catch as many fish as the books suggest that theyshouldbe catching, that's why! Of course they don't. Most of the bastards have only been fishing for aboutfive minutes, and their skills are pretty well non-existent! Oh, they cancast beautifully, and they have wonderful gear; but their streamcraft isoften pathetic. And because there are so many of them, their inability to catch fish asprolifically as their grandfathers did is being translated into politicalpressure for the only remedy that they have ever heard of - catch andrelease! Like so much of life, it's "Horses for courses"; catch-and-release may wellbe a wonderful thing in stream management in many parts of the world, andhas been proven to be so; but in this part of the world, given the currentstatus, it is nothing but a potential disaster, a sort of trendy plague. Andto the deep dread of those who know the fishery well, it is going to happen! There, I knew I should just butt out. Peter ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Catch and release What Don said, except Don's said it without the naval gazing. Tony At 10:24 AM 11/1/00 -0500, Canerods@aol.com wrote:All, One thing that surely can be said about catch-n-kill, there's no need toworry about the survival rates. I was brought up by a father that didn't believe in not taking his limit.Thethought of going on a fishing trip, and spending hundreds of dollars todoso, without coming home with the limit of fish just didn't enter into hismind-set. Fish were for eating. Pretty much a Ernest Hemingway view oftheworld. But that was the 1950's and fish were plentiful. My need to go fishing has much less to do with catching and eating a fishthan it does with getting away from the daily zoo. To be able to stand inatrout stream, be it the Firehole River or Piru Creek (a local pi$$waterstream) doesn't much matter to me. It's the fact that there isn't 10,000other people looking over my shoulder that means so much to me. Half the time I don't even care if I see the fish. If I hook it, play itfora few seconds, I'll sometimes just do a LDR just to get the hook free. Although I also recall standing in the middle of said Piru Creek with abeautiful little wild, and some would say native, rainbow decked out indrop-dead beutiful spawning colors. Held perhaps much too long before Irealized that it's time to put it back and then the joy of knowing thatitreally wasn't all that long as the fish zoomed off into the depths of thehole. I fish for the memories. Don Burns /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from grau@buchlang.com Thu Nov 2 05:40:35 2000 eA2BeYG12237 Organization: Lang Info Access rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Catch and release Hi Pete Excact the thoughts i have - bravo! We have the same problems here inmiddle-europe (switzerland), a lot of insecticids, rivers who runs straighttrough the landscape after corrected from highway-builders etc. etc. Wehave thefirst people who claims (and also do it!) it should be better to stock therivers with insects than with more fish. Like you said, we have also a lot from this ( most very young ) yuppies, whocame fishing with a new orvis or sage cataloque, the newest rods, reels andboots, but caught nothing. Soon they screemed after c&r, and claims the"old"generations of fishers hat taken to many fishes, pah.... My techer in flyfishing told me one thing - "If you will catch any fishes, seatan hour or also two before fishing on the place you will fish, "read" the water,the air, look at the insects flying around, read the waters color, the surface.I f you have understand the rivers life, you can begin with fish...and if youcaught nothing, you caught an wonderful hour on a river, and an wonderfulhourin your life" Regards Stefan petermckean schrieb: Listmembers I just KNOW that I should shut up and keep out of this one, but I simplycannot. Here in Tasmania we are in the early throes of this argument aboutcatch- and-release, and there is some considerable (and unaccustomed)bitterness in the discussion, with a lot of friendships being shattered, andvery few cemented, over the issue. Unfortunately, to complicate the argument, we have no shortage of trouthere; what we have is a shortage of feed for those we have. Those of uswhohave been fishing for a long time notice a drop in average size andcondition of the fish we catch. There have been some very sweeping andseminal changes in the use of riverside land over the past 20-25 years,withthe more traditional extensive grazing agricultural practices being forced insecticides, fertilisers, eutropification agents, and other agriculturalchemicals has gone up astronomically. The landowners who survive asgraziershave at the very least been forced to stock at a much higher rate,increasing the pressure on every acre - which means that the riversidestrips which in the 70's were wild tussocks and rough native grasslandhavenow been grazed down and replaced with clover and pasture species. The impact of these changes on invertebrate species which here, aselsewherein the world, are so essential to the wellbeing of salmonids, has beencatastrophic. Once, during a good hatch of black spinner on our MacquarieRiver you had to be bloody lucky not to choke on the damn things; and thetrout were obsessed. Now you can breathe freely. The spinner hatches still occur, thoughunbelievably diminished, the fish still feed; but the frenzy has gone, andto a very large degree so have the fat trout. Scale studies on the fish taken indicate that they are not necessarilyjuvenile or young fish. They are just malnourished. You do have to remember that in this part of the world trout are an exoticspecies; they hold to a very tenuous occupancy of their niche in our harshecosystem by the skin of their teeth. This is an old continent, worn downbyaeons of wind and water, with rivers devoid of the stony, sparkling,oxygen-rich, icy torrents of the Americas; our Salmo, Salvelinus andOnchorhincus eke out a harsh scavenging survival by grazing on an alienfauna in a sluggish, warm, unfriendly aquatic environment, and life isbloody hard! We need more fish like we need a hole in the head! So who takes the side of catch-and-release here? All the damned neophytes is who! All the emerging guides, all the yuppies from our bigger mainland cities, all the people whose main source of anglinginformation is the North American angling press; all the people who tend towear their underpants outside their longjohns and pat themselves on thecollective back for being so current. The attitude is that "If it worked inthe US, it will work here", and unfortunately there are a lot of thesebuggers about. They see C&R as being absolutely necessary. Why? Because they don't catch as many fish as the books suggest that theyshouldbe catching, that's why! Of course they don't. Most of the bastards have only been fishing foraboutfive minutes, and their skills are pretty well non-existent! Oh, they cancast beautifully, and they have wonderful gear; but their streamcraft isoften pathetic. And because there are so many of them, their inability to catch fish asprolifically as their grandfathers did is being translated into politicalpressure for the only remedy that they have ever heard of - catch andrelease! Like so much of life, it's "Horses for courses"; catch-and-release may wellbe a wonderful thing in stream management in many parts of the world,and> has been proven to be so; but in this part of the world, given thecurrentstatus, it is nothing but a potential disaster, a sort of trendy plague. Andto the deep dread of those who know the fishery well, it is going to happen! There, I knew I should just butt out. Peter ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Cc: Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 2:54 AMSubject: Re: Catch and release What Don said, except Don's said it without the naval gazing. Tony At 10:24 AM 11/1/00 -0500, Canerods@aol.com wrote:All, One thing that surely can be said about catch-n-kill, there's no need toworry about the survival rates. I was brought up by a father that didn't believe in not taking his limit.Thethought of going on a fishing trip, and spending hundreds of dollars todoso, without coming home with the limit of fish just didn't enter into hismind-set. Fish were for eating. Pretty much a Ernest Hemingway viewoftheworld. But that was the 1950's and fish were plentiful. My need to go fishing has much less to do with catching and eating afishthan it does with getting away from the daily zoo. To be able to stand inatrout stream, be it the Firehole River or Piru Creek (a local pi$$waterstream) doesn't much matter to me. It's the fact that there isn't10,000other people looking over my shoulder that means so much to me. Half the time I don't even care if I see the fish. If I hook it, play itfora few seconds, I'll sometimes just do a LDR just to get the hook free. Although I also recall standing in the middle of said Piru Creek with abeautiful little wild, and some would say native, rainbow decked out indrop-dead beutiful spawning colors. Held perhaps much too long before Irealized that it's time to put it back and then the joy of knowing thatitreally wasn't all that long as the fish zoomed off into the depths of thehole. I fish for the memories. Don Burns /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen im UebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht.____ The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. This e-mail isintended only for the stated addressee. If you are not an addressee, youmust not disclose, copy, circulate or in any other way use or rely on theinformation contained in this e-mail. If you have received this e-mail inerror, please inform us immediately and delete it and all copies from yoursystem. from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Nov 2 07:45:59 2000 eA2DjwG13335 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Catch and release eA2DjwG13336 Gosh, fellas. I don't believe that you will find a lot of disagreementhere. The thread (unfortunately, not on rod building) was on HOW to catchand release, not whether it is a panacea for all types of fisheries.J. Snider At 12:38 PM 11/02/2000 +0100, Stefan Grau wrote:Hi Pete Excact the thoughts i have - bravo! We have the same problems here inmiddle-europe (switzerland), a lot of insecticids, rivers who runs straighttrough the landscape after corrected from highway-builders etc. etc. Wehave thefirst people who claims (and also do it!) it should be better to stock therivers with insects than with more fish. Like you said, we have also a lot from this ( most very young ) yuppies, whocame fishing with a new orvis or sage cataloque, the newest rods, reels andboots, but caught nothing. Soon they screemed after c&r, and claims the"old"generations of fishers hat taken to many fishes, pah.... My techer in flyfishing told me one thing - "If you will catch any fishes,seatan hour or also two before fishing on the place you will fish, "read" the water,the air, look at the insects flying around, read the waters color, thesurface.I f you have understand the rivers life, you can begin with fish...and if youcaught nothing, you caught an wonderful hour on a river, and an wonderfulhourin your life" Regards Stefan petermckean schrieb: Listmembers I just KNOW that I should shut up and keep out of this one, but I simplycannot. Here in Tasmania we are in the early throes of this argument aboutcatch- and-release, and there is some considerable (and unaccustomed)bitterness in the discussion, with a lot of friendships being shattered, andvery few cemented, over the issue. Unfortunately, to complicate the argument, we have no shortage of trouthere; what we have is a shortage of feed for those we have. Those of uswhohave been fishing for a long time notice a drop in average size andcondition of the fish we catch. There have been some very sweeping andseminal changes in the use of riverside land over the past 20-25 years,withthe more traditional extensive grazing agricultural practices being forced insecticides, fertilisers, eutropification agents, and other agriculturalchemicals has gone up astronomically. The landowners who survive asgraziershave at the very least been forced to stock at a much higher rate,increasing the pressure on every acre - which means that the riversidestrips which in the 70's were wild tussocks and rough native grasslandhavenow been grazed down and replaced with clover and pasture species. The impact of these changes on invertebrate species which here, aselsewherein the world, are so essential to the wellbeing of salmonids, has beencatastrophic. Once, during a good hatch of black spinner on our MacquarieRiver you had to be bloody lucky not to choke on the damn things; and thetrout were obsessed. Now you can breathe freely. The spinner hatches still occur, thoughunbelievably diminished, the fish still feed; but the frenzy has gone, andto a very large degree so have the fat trout. Scale studies on the fish taken indicate that they are not necessarilyjuvenile or young fish. They are just malnourished. You do have to remember that in this part of the world trout are anexoticspecies; they hold to a very tenuous occupancy of their niche in our harshecosystem by the skin of their teeth. This is an old continent, worn downbyaeons of wind and water, with rivers devoid of the stony, sparkling,oxygen-rich, icy torrents of the Americas; our Salmo, Salvelinus andOnchorhincus eke out a harsh scavenging survival by grazing on an alienfauna in a sluggish, warm, unfriendly aquatic environment, and life isbloody hard! We need more fish like we need a hole in the head! So who takes the side of catch-and-release here? All the damned neophytes is who! All the emerging guides, all the yuppies from our bigger mainland cities, all the people whose main source ofanglinginformation is the North American angling press; all the people who tendtowear their underpants outside their longjohns and pat themselves on thecollective back for being so current. The attitude is that "If it worked inthe US, it will work here", and unfortunately there are a lot of thesebuggers about. They see C&R as being absolutely necessary. Why? Because they don't catch as many fish as the books suggest that theyshouldbe catching, that's why! Of course they don't. Most of the bastards have only been fishing foraboutfive minutes, and their skills are pretty well non-existent! Oh, they cancast beautifully, and they have wonderful gear; but their streamcraft isoften pathetic. And because there are so many of them, their inability to catch fish asprolifically as their grandfathers did is being translated into politicalpressure for the only remedy that they have ever heard of - catch andrelease! Like so much of life, it's "Horses for courses"; catch-and-release may wellbe a wonderful thing in stream management in many parts of the world,andhas been proven to be so; but in this part of the world, given the currentstatus, it is nothing but a potential disaster, a sort of trendy plague. Andto the deep dread of those who know the fishery well, it is going tohappen! There, I knew I should just butt out. Peter ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Cc: Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 2:54 AMSubject: Re: Catch and release What Don said, except Don's said it without the naval gazing. Tony At 10:24 AM 11/1/00 -0500, Canerods@aol.com wrote:All, One thing that surely can be said about catch-n-kill, there's no need toworry about the survival rates. I was brought up by a father that didn't believe in not taking his limit.Thethought of going on a fishing trip, and spending hundreds of dollars todoso, without coming home with the limit of fish just didn't enter into hismind-set. Fish were for eating. Pretty much a Ernest Hemingway viewoftheworld. But that was the 1950's and fish were plentiful. My need to go fishing has much less to do with catching and eating afishthan it does with getting away from the daily zoo. To be able to standinatrout stream, be it the Firehole River or Piru Creek (a local pi$$waterstream) doesn't much matter to me. It's the fact that there isn't10,000other people looking over my shoulder that means so much to me. Half the time I don't even care if I see the fish. If I hook it, play itfora few seconds, I'll sometimes just do a LDR just to get the hook free. Although I also recall standing in the middle of said Piru Creek with abeautiful little wild, and some would say native, rainbow decked out indrop-dead beutiful spawning colors. Held perhaps much too long beforeIrealized that it's time to put it back and then the joy of knowing thatitreally wasn't all that long as the fish zoomed off into the depths ofthehole. I fish for the memories. Don Burns /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen im UebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht.____ The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. This e-mail isintended only for the stated addressee. If you are not an addressee, youmust not disclose, copy, circulate or in any other way use or rely on theinformation contained in this e-mail. If you have received this e-mail inerror, please inform us immediately and delete it and all copies from yoursystem. from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Nov 2 11:08:08 2000 eA2H87G20796 Subject: RE: Catch & Release I should begin by saying I have no problem eating dead beasts (tho I do wantto preserve the world's wild places) because the experience I want to sharewould otherwise make you think I'm a crypto-PETAoid. Like many others I've taken to heart the idea that the quicker the fish isretrieved and released the better. So I use appropriate gear and leaders andrarely get in a situation where I have to tire a fish greatly beforereleasing her. This means that after I've caught 2 or 3 and the cheap thrillof pulling in a struggling fish has faded, the playing of the fish is notreally the fun part and doesn't last long. It's getting the fish to take inthe first place. This has occurred to me before, and I have heard of peopleso evolved that they use hookless flies, but I never really thought thatwould be satisfying for anyone I'd want to meet. A couple of weeks ago I was standing in an Ozark spring creek fishing fornon- native rainbows (there are no native trout in the Ozarks). I did notknow it but after catching and quickly playing a few fish I had broken offthe point and curved section of my hook on a snag. I kept fishing a littleriffle and several fish took the fly. I could feel their resistance for asecond when I tried to set the hook and of course then they were gone. Ithought to myself that was just as well, I could get back to fishing withoutthe hassle of pulling in and releasing a fish. Once I looked at the fly and saw it was hookless I felt like a dummy, put ona new one, and went back to trout harassment. But for a little while I ascended to the high spiritual level (e.g.oblivion) required for appreciation of hookless flies. For my next act, I amworking on line-less casting. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Catch & Release Tony, your comments are well taken. Please remember, I can only speak forC& R under the limited conditions I have described. I usually spend a monthin Montana (mostly on the Missouri River) and can state that I, too, haveseen stressed trout, large trout with torn jaws, one-eyed fish, dead fish,etc. I don't know whether these are primarily due to the use of large woolybuggers and streamers fished from drift boats, from the hardware slingers,or perhaps from dry fly fishers. If I sound as if I am discriminating here,please forgive me--I simply do not know. Likely it is just as well frommany fishers who have not yet learned to handle fish properly. What I amsaying is that you likely are also correct--we simply are speaking ofdifferent conditions. However, in my restricted, specialized instance wehappen to have good data to support our claim.J. SniderAt 10:38 PM 11/01/2000 +0800, Tony Young wrote:Jerry,it's good to see the jaundiced eye I've always cast to the concept heavyc&r is wrong or at least can be wrong provided the fish are handledpropperly, I'd very much prefer to be mistaken in my belief in thisparticular case than correct if only because I think the trout deservebetter than to be considered as not much more than expendible toys with ashortened expected life span through stress. I know during the middle of the season to catch a large % of Dolphin Fishwith broken off gear is very common so it's obvious fish can take quite alot if they are fit and healthy in the first place and the environmentallows the fish to recover, my only problem with the idea is when it'sconducted in an industrial scale. Then again, as you suggest it may notactually do as much harm to the fish as I'd have thought. I would more thanhappily withdraw my comments if that is indeed the case. Tony At 09:21 AM 11/1/00 -0500, Jerry Snider wrote:I have been fortunate to be involved in fishing for arctic graylingseveralweeks each summer for the past 13 years as part of an aquatic ecologyresearch project in far northern Alaska. I personally have caught, measured, weighted, tagged and released wellover 6000 grayling during this period. I know when a fish is a recapturebecause of the presence of the tag. I know if the fish has never been caught byanyone, likely ever, because it will not have a tag. My personal notesindicate that I have recaptured hundreds of these fish over and over and over and over again. Without checking my notes, Irecall catching at least several dozens of the same fish each year over aten year period. My partner has done the same. (Many of the adults have been age dated to be up to 12- 14years old). We fish using barbless hooks, small dry flies (90% of the time) from #16's up through #22's. During the occasional high waterperiod, we are forced to go to large cranefly larvae nymphs for a day or so. Wesimply can't lay off and not fish during this period because this project dependsentirely upon the fish we catch, and we have a limited window in which to do this. Thesefish range up to 18" and 2 lbs in wt. The average is ca. 15". A 40-60 fish dayis not unusual. Occasionally, a fish will be foul hooked in/near the eye. Wedon't like it, don't want to do it, but it happens. Yet I have recaptured such one-eyed fish over and over during a period of several years. They DOhavean excellent survival rate. The remainder of these fish, fair hooked, show absolutely no signs oflip/mouth damage. This, using rods from 8' in length to A.J. Thramer's 4'4" 4 wt. Iseem to be able to land these particular fish as quickly with the 4'4" aswith a longer rod under the conditions I am fishing. The greatest damage to these fish are the tags used for tagging. Theyleave large open sores under the dorsal fin of the fish. Yet I have recapturedhundreds of these same fish over a period of many years. If the tag pulls out, one can see the small, scaled-over scar where the tag was attached. However,becauseofthese open sores we have gone to using electronic lip tags and internal tags that areread with a scanner. How is this catch and release done? Well, it is done applying the very techniques all of you have so aptly described. Granted, these fish are fished for by only two fly fishers each summer, sothey do not get pounded by hundreds of fly fishers. Yet I will catch the samefish over and over during a summer's trip-- many times within 30-45 minutesofthe last time I caught the very same fish. I have fished during heavy droughtyears and during winter-like summers with similar survival rates.Catch and release can work if applied wisely and intelligently and with a little bit of thought. Perhaps I should be more specific and say that,under the conditions under which these fish are caught, catch and releasedoes work.I do not mean for any of the above to be remotely controversial, nor is itmy intent to add fuel to a particular fire. I provide this because it isin support with what the majority of you have said re catch & release. Admittedly, this is not a run-of-the-mill heavily fished trout stream.However, it is one of the very few instances where C & R can at least be verified basedon over a decade of carefully recorded data. Unfortunately, since I am notthe PI for the project but only the fly fisher , I am not permitted topublish the data with regard to our catch and release analyses. I haveencouraged the group to do so, but with little success thus far.Jerry Snider /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from jmpio@nhbm.com Thu Nov 2 11:13:22 2000 eA2HDLG21117 Subject: RE: Catch & Release Barry, at this rate you will soone "evolve" to the point that you willbuild a rod, cast it without a line, so as to fish without a fly, takingpleasure in the fact that a fish rose at precisely the point where yourfly would have been had you actually cast it, returning home to retirethe rod after its 1-day career, and immediately start to refining thetaper and building a new one since you weren't entirely pleased with howyour hypothetical leader was turning over. Naahhh, I think you (and we all) are just as likely to keep engaging inthe actual catching of fish. :-) -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 10:08 AM Subject: RE: Catch & Release I should begin by saying I have no problem eating dead beasts (tho Ido wantto preserve the world's wild places) because the experience I want tosharewould otherwise make you think I'm a crypto-PETAoid. Like many others I've taken to heart the idea that the quicker thefish isretrieved and released the better. So I use appropriate gear andleaders andrarely get in a situation where I have to tire a fish greatly beforereleasing her. This means that after I've caught 2 or 3 and the cheapthrillof pulling in a struggling fish has faded, the playing of the fish isnotreally the fun part and doesn't last long. It's getting the fish totake inthe first place. This has occurred to me before, and I have heard ofpeopleso evolved that they use hookless flies, but I never really thoughtthatwould be satisfying for anyone I'd want to meet. A couple of weeks ago I was standing in an Ozark spring creek fishingfornon- native rainbows (there are no native trout in the Ozarks). I didnotknow it but after catching and quickly playing a few fish I had brokenoffthe point and curved section of my hook on a snag. I kept fishing alittleriffle and several fish took the fly. I could feel their resistance second when I tried to set the hook and of course then they were gone.Ithought to myself that was just as well, I could get back to fishingwithoutthe hassle of pulling in and releasing a fish. Once I looked at the fly and saw it was hookless I felt like a dummy,put ona new one, and went back to trout harassment. But for a little while I ascended to the high spiritual level (e.g.oblivion) required for appreciation of hookless flies. For my nextact, I amworking on line-less casting. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 8:46 AM Cc: horsesho@ptd.net; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Catch & Release Tony, your comments are well taken. Please remember, I can only speak & R under the limited conditions I have described. I usually spend amonthin Montana (mostly on the Missouri River) and can state that I, too,haveseen stressed trout, large trout with torn jaws, one-eyed fish, deadfish,etc. I don't know whether these are primarily due to the use of largewoolybuggers and streamers fished from drift boats, from the hardwareslingers,or perhaps from dry fly fishers. If I sound as if I am discriminatinghere,please forgive me--I simply do not know. Likely it is just as wellfrommany fishers who have not yet learned to handle fish properly. What Iamsaying is that you likely are also correct--we simply are speaking ofdifferent conditions. However, in my restricted, specialized instancewehappen to have good data to support our claim.J. SniderAt 10:38 PM 11/01/2000 +0800, Tony Young wrote:Jerry,it's good to see the jaundiced eye I've always cast to the conceptheavyc&r is wrong or at least can be wrong provided the fish are handledpropperly, I'd very much prefer to be mistaken in my belief in thisparticular case than correct if only because I think the troutdeservebetter than to be considered as not much more than expendible toyswith ashortened expected life span through stress. I know during the middle of the season to catch a large % of DolphinFishwith broken off gear is very common so it's obvious fish can takequite alot if they are fit and healthy in the first place and theenvironmentallows the fish to recover, my only problem with the idea is whenit'sconducted in an industrial scale. Then again, as you suggest it maynotactually do as much harm to the fish as I'd have thought. I wouldmore thanhappily withdraw my comments if that is indeed the case. Tony At 09:21 AM 11/1/00 -0500, Jerry Snider wrote:I have been fortunate to be involved in fishing for arctic graylingseveralweeks each summer for the past 13 years as part of an aquaticecologyresearch project in far northern Alaska. I personally have caught, measured, weighted, tagged and releasedwellover 6000 grayling during this period. I know when a fish is a recapturebecause of the presence of the tag. I know if the fish has never been caught byanyone, likely ever, because it will not have a tag. My personalnotesindicate that I have recaptured hundreds of these fish over and over and over and over again. Without checking mynotes, Irecall catching at least several dozens of the same fish each yearover aten year period. My partner has done the same. (Many of the adults have been age dated to be up to12-14years old). We fish using barbless hooks, small dry flies (90% of the time) from #16's up through #22's. During the occasional highwaterperiod, we are forced to go to large cranefly larvae nymphs for a day or so.Wesimply can't lay off and not fish during this period because this projectdependsentirely upon the fish we catch, and we have a limited window in which to do this.Thesefish range up to 18" and 2 lbs in wt. The average is ca. 15". A 40- 60fish dayis not unusual. Occasionally, a fish will be foul hooked in/near the eye.Wedon't like it, don't want to do it, but it happens. Yet I have recapturedsuch one-eyed fish over and over during a period of several years. TheyDO havean excellent survival rate. The remainder of these fish, fair hooked, show absolutely no signsoflip/mouth damage. This, using rods from 8' in length to A.J. Thramer's 4'4" 4wt. Iseem to be able to land these particular fish as quickly with the4'4" aswith a longer rod under the conditions I am fishing. The greatest damage to these fish are the tags used for tagging.Theyleave large open sores under the dorsal fin of the fish. Yet I haverecapturedhundreds of these same fish over a period of many years. If the tag pulls out, one cansee the small, scaled-over scar where the tag was attached. However,becauseofthese open sores we have gone to using electronic lip tags and internal tagsthat areread with a scanner. How is this catch and release done? Well, it is done applying thevery techniques all of you have so aptly described. Granted, these fish are fished for by only two fly fishers eachsummer, sothey do not get pounded by hundreds of fly fishers. Yet I will catch thesamefish over and over during a summer's trip--many times within 30-45minutes ofthe last time I caught the very same fish. I have fished during heavydroughtyears and during winter-like summers with similar survival rates.Catch and release can work if applied wisely and intelligently andwith a little bit of thought. Perhaps I should be more specific and saythat,under the conditions under which these fish are caught, catch andreleasedoes work.I do not mean for any of the above to be remotely controversial, noris itmy intent to add fuel to a particular fire. I provide this becauseit isin support with what the majority of you have said re catch & release. Admittedly, this is not a run-of-the-mill heavily fished troutstream.However, it is one of the very few instances where C & R can at least be verifiedbasedon over a decade of carefully recorded data. Unfortunately, since I amnotthe PI for the project but only the fly fisher , I am not permittedtopublish the data with regard to our catch and release analyses. Ihaveencouraged the group to do so, but with little success thus far.Jerry Snider /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from marc@bideawee.com Thu Nov 2 12:26:48 2000 eA2IQkG23617 Subject: Address change This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01D0_01C044CF.F0AD9280 Hello all Just signed off the Rodmakers' list last week, and resigned today with a =new address (marc@bideaway.com). The old address(marcdupuis@home.com) =is kaput. Cheers Marc ------=_NextPart_000_01D0_01C044CF.F0AD9280 Hello all Just signed off the Rodmakers'list = and resigned today with a new address (marc@bideaway.com). The old = kaput. Cheers Marc ------=_NextPart_000_01D0_01C044CF.F0AD9280-- from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Thu Nov 2 12:35:29 2000 eA2IZSG24022 Subject: Re: Catch and release Timothy, What is your tag technique? Sounds alot like my use of the forceps. IfI can get the fish stabalized, I just turn the hook with the forceps andnever place my hands on the fish at all. Kevin from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Nov 2 12:55:15 2000 eA2ItEG24705 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 02 Nov 2000 10:57:18 -0800 Subject: Releasing Small Fish eA2ItFG24706 Some of you mentioned that holding a fish upside down relaxes them so thatremoval of the hook is easier. Does this work on small trout in the 6" to 10"range? It sounds like most of the talk has been toward larger trout. I catcha lot of small trout, and release them. These nervous little guys tend to tailwalk on anything they touch, which makes a clean release difficult. Justcurious if cupping them belly up works well on small fish also. Thanks. Chris from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Nov 2 12:59:22 2000 eA2IxLG24920 10:59:19 PST Subject: Re: Catch and release kevin, i just meant that when i get the fish closeenough i shake him off. this works best with biggerfish and barbless hooks. with smaller fish i usuallyam able to turn the hook with my finger. a fish canget pretty banged up getting your hands on him. wheni use a net i have some good c&r netting in my net. ihave never kept a fish for a mount and when i fishwith my son we will keep acouple of brookies for ameal. i have been stoned by activists in c&rstretches of rivers. i think the brook and brwns arebeautiful creatures and i hope my son can still fish attaching human feelings to fish. when i see"fishermen" that abuse fish and the stream i wouldlike to send them home to stay and usually nothingsaid will get you anything but abuse in return. idon't fish with those people. i don't have many picsof me with fish but some day when i win the lottery iwill hire a photographer to follow me around for aseason. timothy --- "Kevin M. Buchanan" wrote:Timothy, What is your tag technique? Sounds alot like my useof the forceps. IfI can get the fish stabalized, I just turn the hookwith the forceps andnever place my hands on the fish at all. Kevin ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!? from homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.http://experts.yahoo.com/ from caneman@clnk.com Thu Nov 2 13:31:36 2000 eA2JVZG26123 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Catch and release Tjtrodmaker wrote: i have never kept a fish for a mount Most of us have not, but I do understand wanting to have a "trophy" onthe wall. Maybe it's just one of those "man" things left over from ourcloser relationship to primates. LOLToo bad we don't have more programs like one on the Little Red inArkansas, "Friends of the Little Red River" who, when you join, give you akit that, if memorie serves, includes a soft tape for measuring fish,instructions on how to do it with minimum damage to the fish, include thatif you release fish over a certain size you get a "patch" for your fly vest,AND if you do catch a trophy that you want mounted, then they will pay aportion of the cost of a "plastic" mount, so that the fish can be returnedto the water.Yep, I know, it's hard to measure a fish and takes it's picture withoutdamaging it slightly, but it's a hell of a lot better than grabbing a trophy Also, a friend of mine, many of you know him, a guide out of yellvillearkansas, Duane Hada, will, if you send him a pic and measurements will do awatercolor of your 'trophy' to hang on the wall... much more appeasing toSWMBO than even a recreation of a dead animal! And, much less expensivethan a fiberglas or real mount... and nope, Duane doesn't pay me acommission, so just read in the usual disclaimer here. :^) Later,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Catch and release kevin, i just meant that when i get the fish closeenough i shake him off. this works best with biggerfish and barbless hooks. with smaller fish i usuallyam able to turn the hook with my finger. a fish canget pretty banged up getting your hands on him. wheni use a net i have some good c&r netting in my net. ihave never kept a fish for a mount and when i fishwith my son we will keep acouple of brookies for ameal. i have been stoned by activists in c&rstretches of rivers. i think the brook and brwns arebeautiful creatures and i hope my son can still fish attaching human feelings to fish. when i see"fishermen" that abuse fish and the stream i wouldlike to send them home to stay and usually nothingsaid will get you anything but abuse in return. idon't fish with those people. i don't have many picsof me with fish but some day when i win the lottery iwill hire a photographer to follow me around for aseason. timothy --- "Kevin M. Buchanan" wrote:Timothy, What is your tag technique? Sounds alot like my useof the forceps. IfI can get the fish stabalized, I just turn the hookwith the forceps andnever place my hands on the fish at all. Kevin ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!? from homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.http://experts.yahoo.com/ from BJCarlson@webtv.net Thu Nov 2 13:58:19 2000 eA2JwJG27272 (8.8.8-wtv-e/mt.gso.26Feb98) id LAA24504; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:58:22 - ETAtAhQKEHkJxVqUdebBOtHasnBH2ZRNvwIVAK+bNZs1hxM2JDNtVs1rg/wTrlIc Subject: Catch and Release def: Term for a stretch of private stream where trespassers caught arereleased after a lecture, a series of threats and a brief introductionto a large mean dog. Bob from volksman9@usa.net Thu Nov 2 18:03:43 2000 eA303gG04609 mailer(34FM.0700.4.03) on Fri Nov 3 00:03:45 GMT 2000 Subject: eA303gG04610 Barry man you hit the nail rite dead square smack flat on..I was thinking allthe limp dicks out there could just take up air flyfishing ,you no like makebelieve air guitar.Just stand out there with a blank stupid look on your faceand make believe cast and were all the better for it.... ____________________________________________________________________Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 from GLohkamp@aol.com Thu Nov 2 19:03:20 2000 eA313JG05925 Subject: C&R I have been following a few of the E-mails concerning the Catch and release thread. l must admit that nearly all of the fish l catch or released, but if the water you are fishing does allow you to take a couple fish maybe you should...... l got to thinking about this a few years back and it seems to me, that managing a fishery would be very difficult if no one follow the rules. How would they (biologist) ever know if their plans were effective at increasing the size or even number of fish in a given system, if everyone released everything? If the rules allow it and I'm in the mood for a few trout l will keep a couple. Gary Lohkamp from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Nov 2 22:05:34 2000 eA345XG08464 20:05:34 PST Subject: Re: --- Dan Smith wrote:Barry man you hit the nail rite dead square smack flat on..I was thinking all the limp dicks we don't need to hear this out there could just take up airflyfishing ,you no like makebelieve air guitar.Just stand out there with a blankstupid look on your faceand make believe cast and were all the better forit.... ____________________________________________________________________Get free email and a permanent address athttp://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!? from homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.http://experts.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Nov 2 22:09:49 2000 eA349mG08631 20:09:49 PST Subject: Re: C&R gary, i don't think anyone begrudges you taking acouple. when i fish with my son taking a couple hometo the grill is a real treat for him. he willinglyputs his back the majority of the time. it can behard for a little shaver to be so generous. he's 12and it's still a real thrill for him. timothy If the rules allow it and I'min the mood for a few trout l will keep a couple. Gary Lohkamp ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!? from homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.http://experts.yahoo.com/ from piscator@macatawa.org Thu Nov 2 23:04:05 2000 eA3544G09752 Subject: catch and release - my last words - honest! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C04529.E52ED040 "petermckean" wrote:---------------------------------------------------Listmembers simplycannot. Peter, no you shouldn't. You make some fine points. But it sounds like night with a pitchfork." Or words to that effect. Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C04529.E52ED040 make = points. But it sounds likewhat you need is habitat management along = stream cooridors, some reasonable limitations on what kind of = can allow to seep into the rivers, and maybe some creative = slot limits or trophy tags. I'm probably going to keep = pretty much unchecked (just someone try and stop me), but it does = greatly to see such noble and beautiful creatures as trout with = jaws and withered eyes. I'll continue to try and do as little harm = possible, yell at hillbilly snaggers, and try to convert people to = thinking. But my way of thinking might change. One of my favorite = came from Ed Engle in a Giereich (sp?) book and was the passage = said if he couldn't fly fish he'd probably quit fishing. I agree = Ed's answer of ,"I'd fish if they made it illegal and I had to = night with a pitchfork." Or words to that effect.Of = use a bamboo handled pitchfork. Probably an old salmon taper. Or = lancewood. . . . Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C04529.E52ED040-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Nov 2 23:11:00 2000 eA35AxG09923 Subject: Alaska special taper Friends,At SRG, some of you asked me for this taper. I have toadmit that it was fun watching some of the better castersthrow the entire line and up to about 20 feet of backingwith this rod, but I suspect that those guys could do thesame with almost any decent 9 weight and a T-300 shootinghead. Most of the credit for this one goes to Tom Smithwickand Bob Nunley. All I did was take their suggestions andimplement them, with a few twists of my own. This is a 3piece 8.5 foot 9 wieght. The butt is scalloped hollow (2"solid at ferrules and 1.5" at nodes) to .080, and the midhollowed the same way to .070. Node spacing is 3x3. Iadded a removable 4" fighting butt to give it a little morebalance, and to make things easier while fighting KingSalmon, making the total length with the f b at about 106".Were I to rebuild it, I would hollow a little of the tipsection out as well, just to remove some of the tipheaviness and make it balance a little better without thefighting butt. Ferrules are 20/64 and 15/64. Reel seat ischeapo aluminum, to save weight. Finished weight is 6.2ounces. Maximum stress is at 10", and about 223K in/oz.Guide spacing is standard straight out of a book somewhere. Inches Dimension0 0.0855 0.11610 0.13415 0.15920 0.17225 0.19230 0.21235 0.23140 0.25045 0.26350 0.26955 0.27560 0.28865 0.30470 0.32275 0.34380 0.36585 0.37290 0.38392 0.389 Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Nov 3 04:02:27 2000 eA3A2PG12842 eA3A2Cx77511; Subject: Re: Catch and release Organization: vet Bradley I must hasten here to say that I have no axe to grind with novice flyfishermen; I try when I can to be as helpful as possible to beginners. Theyare, after all, the lifeblood of our sport. Heck, my son is one. It is just that I have always been distrustful of people who are on thecommittee after only being in the club for three months, in a manner ofspeaking. I mean, it's nice that they are so enthusiastic, but need totemper the rush with a bit of experience. Tim says it right - there are times when, for a number of reasons it isappropriate, and moral, to kill a number of fish; and there are times whenC&R is the right way to behave. It seems to me that C&R is a workshopmanual, not a religion. The trick is knowing which is which. An even greater trick is trying tolegislate it wisely. Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Catch and release Hi Peter,What you say about the yuppies is very true here...The last time I fished a "major trophy" water there was a group(4)of men who between them did not catch 2 fish in 2 days. I hooked4 fish that afternoon on a fly rod, my wife landed a trophy on a #6bugger on an ultra light spinning rod. The look on the guys face's wasutter bewilderment. One of the guys changed flies about every 10minutes and two of his partners kept adding and removing spit shot.But they had over $6000 of gear between the them. All of it namebrand and very "new" with the latest rods/leaders/waders/sun glasses...The fly changer and one of his buddies casting gave me a new definitionof flogging the water. At the time I had one graphite rod to my name,a thirty dollar reel and the cheapest fly line I could purchase at thelocaldiscount store. When the day was over and I meet up with the men in the fly shop atthe lodge/motel, one of the men(the leader of the pack) asked me what wewere casting.When I said that the flies were large(size 16 is big by the guide books)streamers,the other three started making noise about the size and style of fly.Theyhad failedto take in to account that size 22 midges work under "normal" water flow(300-600 cfs), the daily flow that afternoon was 1500 cfs... Brad Because they don't catch as many fish as the books suggest that theyshouldbe catching, that's why! Of course they don't. Most of the bastards have only been fishing foraboutfive minutes, and their skills are pretty well non-existent! Oh, theycancast beautifully, and they have wonderful gear; but their streamcraft isoften pathetic. And because there are so many of them, their inability to catch fish asprolifically as their grandfathers did is being translated intopoliticalpressure for the only remedy that they have ever heard of - catch andrelease! Like so much of life, it's "Horses for courses"; catch-and-release maywellbe a wonderful thing in stream management in many parts of the world,andhas been proven to be so; but in this part of the world, given thecurrentstatus, it is nothing but a potential disaster, a sort of trendy plague.Andto the deep dread of those who know the fishery well, it is going tohappen! from grau@buchlang.com Fri Nov 3 04:18:49 2000 eA3AImG13097 (MET) Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: Wooden rods 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN So Gang Away from c&r, but also split cane, who had make a "wooden rod", means from lancewood, greenheart etc.? What are your experiences with them? I have now finished my third rod, one the butt is made from hickory, tipmade from ash. The other; butt from fir, tip from ash. Third, a -3piece,butt hickory, middle hickory, tip a "roundet" quad taper ( 4 bamboo-,not tonkin strips, planed as quad, then roundet). The last rod is a truebeauty, casts very well, a bit more heahy than a split cane rod, but thereel i fish with it has more weight, so i feel nothing from the weightmore. Hope to post some photos soon. All rods has an rattand-winded grip, tubular winding cheks and double- ,bronzed snake`s. Reel-seats full-metal, screw-type. Strippers areagathe, exept the 3-piece with nickel-silver strippers, inletporcellane. regards Stefan --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht.____ The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. This e-mail is intended only for the stated addressee. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy, circulate or in any other way use or rely ontheinformation contained in this e-mail. If you have received this e- mailinerror, please inform us immediately and delete it and all copies fromyoursystem. from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 3 06:02:50 2000 eA3C2oG13833 Subject: Quads, Pentas Hello All, Is there any information available on making forms to plane these rods.I would love to purchase a Morgan hand mill to answer all of theseneeds, but alas the budget will not allow it. While at the SRG I had and oppourtunity to cast a penta five weight thatwas built to a taper supplied by Bill Fink. I am affraid that my arsenalwon't be complete until I own one. Regards, Steve from volksman9@usa.net Fri Nov 3 07:20:18 2000 eA3DKHG14609 mailer(34FM.0700.4.03) on Fri Nov 3 13:20:18 GMT 2000 "rod akers" Subject: Re: [Re: ] eA3DKIG14610 Ease-up and don't take yourself two serious out there ____________________________________________________________________Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Nov 3 07:20:24 2000 (may be forged)) eA3DKNG14620 Subject: RE: Agreed. Not so much the vocabulary, but the attitude. On this list we'recapable of respecting one another....BK -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 10:06 PM Subject: Re: --- Dan Smith wrote:Barry man you hit the nail rite dead square smack flat on..I was thinking all the limp dicks we don't need to hear this out there could just take up airflyfishing ,you no like makebelieve air guitar.Just stand out there with a blankstupid look on your faceand make believe cast and were all the better forit.... ____________________________________________________________________Get free email and a permanent address athttp://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!? from homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has youranswer.http://experts.yahoo.com/ from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Nov 3 07:20:30 2000 (may be forged)) eA3DKTG14661 Subject: RE: Alaska special taper Harry -- I wasn't at SRG but THANKYOU for this taper....Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 11:08 PM Subject: Alaska special taper Friends,At SRG, some of you asked me for this taper. I have toadmit that it was fun watching some of the better castersthrow the entire line and up to about 20 feet of backingwith this rod, but I suspect that those guys could do thesame with almost any decent 9 weight and a T-300 shootinghead. Most of the credit for this one goes to Tom Smithwickand Bob Nunley. All I did was take their suggestions andimplement them, with a few twists of my own. This is a 3piece 8.5 foot 9 wieght. The butt is scalloped hollow (2"solid at ferrules and 1.5" at nodes) to .080, and the midhollowed the same way to .070. Node spacing is 3x3. Iadded a removable 4" fighting butt to give it a little morebalance, and to make things easier while fighting KingSalmon, making the total length with the f b at about 106".Were I to rebuild it, I would hollow a little of the tipsection out as well, just to remove some of the tipheaviness and make it balance a little better without thefighting butt. Ferrules are 20/64 and 15/64. Reel seat ischeapo aluminum, to save weight. Finished weight is 6.2ounces. Maximum stress is at 10", and about 223K in/oz.Guide spacing is standard straight out of a book somewhere. Inches Dimension0 0.0855 0.11610 0.13415 0.15920 0.17225 0.19230 0.21235 0.23140 0.25045 0.26350 0.26955 0.27560 0.28865 0.30470 0.32275 0.34380 0.36585 0.37290 0.38392 0.389 Harry--Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Fri Nov 3 08:57:40 2000 eA3EveG16843 Subject: Re: Quads, Pentas Steve, *The Best of the Planing Form* has at least one (that I remember) Tom Smithwick/Bill Fink article on making pent forms. I've also seen an article on making quad forms...just can't remember where. Mike - where are those brain cells when you need them - BiondoSt. Louis, MO At 11/3/2000, Steve Trauthwein wrote:Hello All, Is there any information available on making forms to plane these rods.I would love to purchase a Morgan hand mill to answer all of theseneeds, but alas the budget will not allow it. While at the SRG I had and oppourtunity to cast a penta five weight thatwas built to a taper supplied by Bill Fink. I am affraid that my arsenalwon't be complete until I own one. Regards, Steve from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Fri Nov 3 11:45:13 2000 eA3HjCG21849 Comments: Authenticated sender is Organization: Missouri House of Representatives Subject: Re: Catch and release To the list: I guess everyone is probably tired of this thread, but I just had the chance to read through all the recent postings on catch and release and, as a fish biologist, I must add a few comments. After looking at a lot of data from a lot of different freshwaterfisheries, it becomes obvious that even a moderate amount of "typical" (i.e., with moderate size and bag limits) angling has a significant impact on fish populations. What is often missed in these discussions is the nature of those impacts. A fish population would have to be fished very hard to seriously depress the overall number of fish present, but it takes surprisingly little pressure to affect the size distribution of the fish and to significantly decrease the number of larger fish present. (This holds for bass and bluegill fisheries as well as trout; it is less clear for migratory species like salmon.) The reasons are fairly obvious: (1) most anglers are more likely to keep the larger fish, and (2) there are fewer larger (older) fish to begin with because they have had to survive several years of natural and angling mortality. The idea that angling mortality largely replaces natural mortality doesn't work for most fisheries because natural mortality mostly affects smaller fish and angling mortality mostly affects larger fish. What this means for anglers is that keeping a few small fish occasionally for the pan has little impact on most populations, but keeping larger fish is going to have an impact in all but the most remote fisheries. Because anglers have different tastes and different streams and lakes have different habitat conditions, not all fisheries should be managed alike. The question for a given fishery is then to decide what type of fishery is desireable at that location and to implement appropriate regulations. In areas subject to even moderate angling pressure (almost everywhere), if you want to have significant numbers of large fish, there has to be some pretty severe harvest restriction. With anglers taking reasonable care in handling fish during release, regulations with catch-and-release or very high size limits do work; the down side in areas of very high angling pressure is scarred fish. The alternatives are allowing some harvest and having significantly fewer large fish, restricting access by anglers (common on private waters; not at all popular on public water), or limiting gear to the small hooks, hookless flies, etc., discussed on the list. It's all a matter of what trade-offs we want to make youth: "You can't have your cake and eat it, too." Sorry for the length of this; hope it provides some useful information. Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from Ron_Elder@cpr.ca Fri Nov 3 12:34:45 2000 eA3IYiG23221 1999)) id 8725698C.006611FA ; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 11:34:52 -0700 Subject: Turning grips? A question to the list. What does everyone use to start shaping the grip? ARasp? Coarse sandpaper? Sandpaper on a wood backing or in hand? A woodlathe tool? Try to figure out what removes the largest amount of cork in thequickest time without damaging (large pits) the cork. I know once I get to this roughed shape I would then finish with variousdegrees of finer paper until I am happy. Thanks in advance....ron Ron ElderCalgary AB from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Nov 3 12:56:40 2000 eA3IudG23804 Fri, 3 Nov 2000 10:56:33 -0800 Subject: Re: Turning grips? Ron,I've used several methods, and all have given acceptable results. I startedturning to a uniform cylinder with 100g sandpaper. Then I went to 100gdrywall sanding mesh. Lately I've been using the "coarse" grit SuprSander(contact info on Rodmakers page). As I said, allwork well as long as the operator keeps the abrasive moving fairly rapidly.Oh yeah, don't try a rasp or wood lathe turning tool. They tend to take offchunks of cork in my hands. Harry Boyd Ron_Elder@cpr.ca wrote: A question to the list. What does everyone use to start shaping the grip? ARasp? Coarse sandpaper? Sandpaper on a wood backing or in hand? A woodlathe tool? Try to figure out what removes the largest amount of cork in thequickest time without damaging (large pits) the cork. --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from dhaftel@att.com Fri Nov 3 12:58:11 2000 eA3IwBG23910 NAA08936; (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2652.35) Subject: RE: Turning grips? Ron, I use a rasp to get the rough shape, then sandpaper progressively down to220 grit. Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: Turning grips? A question to the list. What does everyone use to start shaping the grip? ARasp? Coarse sandpaper? Sandpaper on a wood backing or in hand? A woodlathetool? Try to figure out what removes the largest amount of cork in thequickest time without damaging (large pits) the cork. I know once I get to this roughed shape I would then finish with variousdegrees of finer paper until I am happy. Thanks in advance....ron Ron ElderCalgary AB from gjm80301@yahoo.com Fri Nov 3 13:01:43 2000 eA3J1gG24111 2000 11:01:38 PST Subject: Re: Catch and release I am going to save this post. This is the most logical discusssionof the issue I have ever seen. It does hurt that the conclusions meshexactly with the anecdotal evidence I have experienced in my anglinglife. Thanks, Terry --- Terry Finger wrote:To the list: I guess everyone is probably tired of this thread, but I just had the chance to read through all the recent postings on catch and release and, as a fish biologist, I must add a few comments. After looking at a lot of data from a lot of different freshwaterfisheries, it becomes obvious that even a moderate amount of "typical" (i.e., with moderate size and bag limits) angling has a significant impact on fish populations. What is often missed in these discussions is the nature of those impacts. A fishpopulation would have to be fished very hard to seriously depress the overall number of fish present, but it takes surprisingly little pressure to affect the size distribution of the fish and to significantly decrease the number of larger fish present. (This holds for bass and bluegill fisheries as well as trout; it is less clear for migratory species like salmon.) The reasons are fairly obvious: (1) most anglers are more likely to keep the larger fish, and (2) there are fewer larger (older) fishto begin with because they have had to survive several years ofnatural and angling mortality. The idea that angling mortality largely replaces natural mortality doesn't work for most fisheries because natural mortality mostly affects smaller fish and angling mortality mostly affects larger fish. What this means for anglers is that keeping a few small fish occasionally for the pan has little impact on most populations, but keeping larger fish is going to have an impact in all but the most remote fisheries. Because anglers have different tastes and different streams and lakes have different habitat conditions, not all fisheries shouldbe managed alike. The question for a given fishery is then to decide what type of fishery is desireable at that location and toimplement appropriate regulations. In areas subject to even moderate angling pressure (almost everywhere), if you want to have significantnumbers of large fish, there has to be some pretty severe harvest restriction. With anglers taking reasonable care in handling fish during release, regulations with catch-and-release or very highsize limits do work; the down side in areas of very high anglingpressure is scarred fish. The alternatives are allowing some harvest and having significantly fewer large fish, restricting access byanglers (common on private waters; not at all popular on public water), or limiting gear to the small hooks, hookless flies, etc., discussedon the list. It's all a matter of what trade-offs we want to make youth: "You can't have your cake and eat it, too." Sorry for the length of this; hope it provides some useful information. Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!? from homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.http://experts.yahoo.com/ from gjm80301@yahoo.com Fri Nov 3 13:24:23 2000 eA3JOMG24795 2000 11:24:23 PST Subject: Re: Turning grips? Ron, Wayne recommends at least starting with course sandpaper backed by aboard held flat against the way. This accomplishes two things.First, it helps form a true cylinder centered on the shaft since thehigh spots will be ths spots hit. Second, it avoids a 'grab' by thesandpaper that could result in significant restructuring of yourblank. With this configuration, I think that you can get away with60-80 grit sandpaper. Once the cylinder is formed, I move to 1 inch unsupported strips of100 screen drywall screen for most of the shaping. Do not allow toomuch of the screen to contact the grip or you could get a grab(especially with a fresh strip). from there, 200, 400, 600. Some prefer not to go so fine. --- Ron_Elder@cpr.ca wrote:A question to the list. What does everyone use to start shaping thegrip? A Rasp? Coarse sandpaper? Sandpaper on a wood backing or inhand? A wood lathe tool? Try to figure out what removes the largestamount of cork in the quickest time without damaging (large pits)the cork. I know once I get to this roughed shape I would then finish withvarious degrees of finer paper until I am happy. Thanks in advance....ron Ron ElderCalgary AB __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!? from homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.http://experts.yahoo.com/ from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Fri Nov 3 13:28:32 2000 eA3JSUG25014 Fri, 3 Nov 2000 14:28:30 -0500 rodmakers Subject: RE: Turning grips? I strongly recommend NOT using wet-dry sandpaper, unless you want a dirtygreyish smudge all over your handle. Ask me how I know. -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 2:24 PM Subject: Re: Turning grips? Ron, Wayne recommends at least starting with course sandpaper backed by aboard held flat against the way. This accomplishes two things.First, it helps form a true cylinder centered on the shaft since thehigh spots will be ths spots hit. Second, it avoids a 'grab' by thesandpaper that could result in significant restructuring of yourblank. With this configuration, I think that you can get away with60-80 grit sandpaper. Once the cylinder is formed, I move to 1 inch unsupported strips of100 screen drywall screen for most of the shaping. Do not allow toomuch of the screen to contact the grip or you could get a grab(especially with a fresh strip). from there, 200, 400, 600. Some prefer not to go so fine. --- Ron_Elder@cpr.ca wrote:A question to the list. What does everyone use to start shaping thegrip? A Rasp? Coarse sandpaper? Sandpaper on a wood backing or inhand? A wood lathe tool? Try to figure out what removes the largestamount of cork in the quickest time without damaging (large pits)the cork. I know once I get to this roughed shape I would then finish withvarious degrees of finer paper until I am happy. Thanks in advance....ron Ron ElderCalgary AB __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!? from homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.http://experts.yahoo.com/ from LambersonW@missouri.edu Fri Nov 3 13:41:40 2000 eA3JfdG25737 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: Dickerson 8617? Does anyone have a taper for a Dickerson 8617? The rod listed as an 8617inthe taper archive is much lighter, maybe an 8614? Bill Lamberson from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Nov 3 14:12:34 2000 eA3KCWG27046 with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 03 Nov 2000 12:14:22 -0800 Subject: Edwards Quadrate Taper eA3KCYG27047 Here is a 7' 2 5/8oz. 2 pc. Edwards Quadrate No.25 HDH HDG taper. I cast itwith a 4DT, and that was a good match. Measured without varnish so nodeduction necessary. This is an interesting rod as you will see with some ofthe measurements and the variation in the two tips. The figures areaccurate even at the 37.5" to 40" measurements. I measured every 2.5" soyou could see the differences created in a straight slope planing form and abeveler. As Chris Lucker pointed out to me a long time ago, there can be atremendous difference in the outcome of the two processes in terms oftaper. I assume this Edwards Quadrate was made on a beveler as theyappear to be sawed strips with no node straightening done. Fibers run offthe sides like some of the Leonards I've seen. All I can say is the rod is agreat caster with tip #1 (I didn't cast #2), and all you can do with the handplaning techniques is get as close as you can. Guide spacing is also shownbelow the taper. Bronze p!erfection guides with a small agate stripper. Squared cork cigar with a corkreelseat spacer, black plastic butt cap and bright aluminum slide ring. Blacksquare plastic winding check. Strap and ring hookkeeper. I averaged the twomeasurements. While many of the measurements were within .001" of eachother there was a variation of as great as .015" in the butt. Now doesn'tthat make you feel a little better about your own tolerances. Chris McDowell #1 #20" .062 Broken 2.5" .070 .0775" .088 .0867.5" .102 .09410" .103 .10012.5" .106 .10215" .108 .10217.5" .115 .10820" .129 .11522.5" .132 .117 (.013 diff in the two #2 mics)25" .137 .13627.5" .140 .130 (Yes this is correct)30" .144 .13132.5" .149 .14335" .158 .14837.5" .162 .15140" .158 .152Ferrule44" .16645" .17047.5" .18050" .19452.5" .20055" .20257.5" .20360" .20862.5" .21965" .22967.5" .23870" .23972.5" .24875" .280 estimatedHandle starts at about 74" Guide Spacing 1st 4 3/16"2nd 9 1/8"3rd 15"4th 21"5th 27 3/8"6th 34 1/4"7th 40 1/4" (foot to ferrule serrations)8th 47 5/8"stripper 55 3/4" from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Nov 3 16:17:47 2000 eA3MHkG01242 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: Turning grips? I use a very course rasp to quickly shape the grip. I know Bob Tayloruses a knife but have never seen it done or tried it. Marty A question to the list. What does everyone use to start shaping the grip? ARasp? Coarse sandpaper? Sandpaper on a wood backing or in hand? A woodlathe tool? Try to figure out what removes the largest amount of cork in thequickest time without damaging (large pits) the cork. I know once I get to this roughed shape I would then finish with variousdegrees of finer paper until I am happy. Thanks in advance....ron Ron ElderCalgary AB from Ron_Elder@cpr.ca Fri Nov 3 16:38:26 2000 eA3McPG01865 1999)) id 8725698C.007C61B1 ; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 15:38:34 -0700 Subject: Granger Aristocrat The following is a link to a mint W&M Granger for sale. http://members.home.net/denverdaveinc/rod1.html It is an W&M Granger Aristocrat listed as a 9' 3/2 for a 5/6wt. TheRodmaker's taper archive has a taper for an 8'6" Aristocrat. Does anybodyhave the taper for the 9 footer. Thanks in advance. ....ron Ron ElderCalgary AB from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Nov 3 16:56:28 2000 eA3MuRG02410 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Wooden rods Well, I haven't made a wood rod, but I do own an interesting Orvis, circa1870, perhaps earlier. I believe the butt is Oak and the mid and tips arelancewood or greenheart. At a mere 31 ounces for a 15 ft. salmon rod... Itwas made when real men used to fish... Or civil defense during the civilwar... Darrell P.S. They still haven't switched my DSL line yet... it was supposed tohappen 4 days ago... -----Original Message----- Subject: Wooden rods So Gang Away from c&r, but also split cane, who had make a "wooden rod", means from lancewood, greenheart etc.? What are your experiences with them? I have now finished my third rod, one the butt is made from hickory, tipmade from ash. The other; butt from fir, tip from ash. Third, a -3piece,butt hickory, middle hickory, tip a "roundet" quad taper ( 4 bamboo-,not tonkin strips, planed as quad, then roundet). The last rod is a truebeauty, casts very well, a bit more heahy than a split cane rod, but thereel i fish with it has more weight, so i feel nothing from the weightmore. Hope to post some photos soon. All rods has an rattand-winded grip, tubular winding cheks and double- ,bronzed snake`s. Reel-seats full-metal, screw-type. Strippers areagathe, exept the 3-piece with nickel-silver strippers, inletporcellane. regards Stefan --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht.____ The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. This e-mail is intended only for the stated addressee. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy, circulate or in any other way use or rely ontheinformation contained in this e-mail. If you have received this e- mailinerror, please inform us immediately and delete it and all copies fromyoursystem. from cathcreek@hotmail.com Fri Nov 3 16:59:03 2000 eA3Mx2G02609 Fri, 3 Nov 2000 14:58:58 -0800 Nov 2000 22:58:58 GMT Subject: Re: Turning grips? FILETIME=[A6672D10:01C045E9] I will second the use of the drywall sand paper. It looks like screen material and makes fast work of turning cork. I saw it posted on the list several months back. Thank you to whoever posted!!! Rob Clarke From: marty Subject: Re: Turning grips?Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 15:54:26 -0500 I use a very course rasp to quickly shape the grip. I know Bob Tayloruses a knife but have never seen it done or tried it. Marty A question to the list. What does everyone use to start shaping the grip? A Rasp? Coarse sandpaper? Sandpaper on a wood backing or in hand?A wood lathe tool? Try to figure out what removes the largest amount ofcork in the quickest time without damaging (large pits) the cork. I know once I get to this roughed shape I would then finish with various degrees of finer paper until I am happy. Thanks in advance....ron Ron ElderCalgary AB _________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Nov 3 17:42:21 2000 eA3NgKG03607 16:08:24 PST Subject: Re: Turning grips? ron, i start with 60grit sandpaper using my hand. the only block i use is when i make the front edge ofa well taper. i've been finishing done to 600grit. timothy --- Ron_Elder@cpr.ca wrote:A question to the list. What does everyone use tostart shaping the grip? A Rasp? Coarse sandpaper?Sandpaper on a wood backing or in hand? A wood lathetool? Try to figure out what removes the largestamount of cork in the quickest time without damaging(large pits) the cork. I know once I get to this roughed shape I would thenfinish with various degrees of finer paper until Iam happy. Thanks in advance....ron Ron ElderCalgary AB ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!? from homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.http://experts.yahoo.com/ from CALucker@aol.com Fri Nov 3 17:42:48 2000 eA3NglG03702 Subject: Re: Turning grips? A sharp stiff bladed knife is what I use to do the initial fast shaping of a grip. I brace the tip at the lathe ways and move the knife toward the chuck (jacobs chuck mounted in place of a three jaw for safety reasons and spared knuckles when it comes to sand paper time). The knife idea is not original. Just have seen photos of the folks at Leonard, T & T, Edwards, Payne, and a pen and ink drawing of Ron Kusseusing the method. FInally got the nerve to do the same. Chris from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Nov 3 17:45:33 2000 eA3NjXG03909 16:11:41 PST Subject: Fwd: Re: Turning grips? i also turn my grips at 700rpm. timothy --- timothy troester wrote: From: timothy troester Subject: Re: Turning grips? ron, i start with 60grit sandpaper using my hand. the only block i use is when i make the front edgeofa well taper. i've been finishing done to 600grit. timothy --- Ron_Elder@cpr.ca wrote:A question to the list. What does everyone use tostart shaping the grip? A Rasp? Coarse sandpaper?Sandpaper on a wood backing or in hand? A woodlathetool? Try to figure out what removes the largestamount of cork in the quickest time withoutdamaging(large pits) the cork. I know once I get to this roughed shape I wouldthenfinish with various degrees of finer paper until Iam happy. Thanks in advance....ron Ron ElderCalgary AB ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!? from homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Expertshas your answer.http://experts.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!? from homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.http://experts.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Nov 3 17:47:40 2000 eA3NldG04026 15:47:41 PST Subject: Re: Turning grips? chris, it sounds scary to me. maybe i'll try it wheni make it over to your house some time. :-) timothy --- CALucker@aol.com wrote:A sharp stiff bladed knife is what I use to do theinitial fast shaping of a grip. I brace the tip at the lathe ways and movethe knife toward the chuck (jacobs chuck mounted in place of a three jaw forsafety reasons and spared knuckles when it comes to sand paper time). The knife idea is not original. Just have seenphotos of the folks at Leonard, T & T, Edwards, Payne, and a pen and inkdrawing of Ron Kusse using the method. FInally got the nerve to do the same. Chris ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!? from homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.http://experts.yahoo.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Fri Nov 3 17:48:51 2000 eA3NmoG04141 Subject: Re: Turning grips? I really like dry wall paper/screen also. It makes short work of shaping, although, I see how using it unsupported might cause a mis-shapened cylinder. It is hard to use with a wood block because there is nowhere for the cuttings to go.I found an interesting article on grips today at http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/rodbuilding/customgrip.htmlI found it quite interesting. Worth a look while this thread is still alive.Best regards, Bob Mauluccidownandacross.comPower Fibers Online MagazineSplit Cane Fly Rods and Silk Lines from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Nov 3 18:03:46 2000 eA403jG04662 Fri, 3 Nov 2000 16:03:44 -0800 Subject: Re: Turning grips? Bob,While we're swapping links, here's one that contains an article by my friendDave Lewis on shaping cork grips.http://www.globalflyfisher.com/rodbuilding/index.html Although therodbuildingsection of GFF is not quite ready for prime time, the article on cork grips isreally nice. Besides that, even though he makes graphite rods, Dave is aheckof a nice guy. Harry bob maulucci wrote: I found an interesting article on grips today athttp://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/rodbuilding/customgrip.htmlI found it quite interesting. Worth a look while this thread is still alive. from bob@downandacross.com Fri Nov 3 18:15:11 2000 eA40FAG05073 Subject: Re: Turning grips? Hi Harry:That's a great one too. I especially like Global Fly Fisher. What a great source of info. Love the salmon fly stuff.Best regards,Bob At 06:00 PM 11/3/00 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:Bob,While we're swapping links, here's one that contains an article by my friendDave Lewis on shaping cork grips.http://www.globalflyfisher.com/rodbuilding/index.html Although the rodbuildingsection of GFF is not quite ready for prime time, the article on cork grips isreally nice. Besides that, even though he makes graphite rods, Dave is aheckof a nice guy. Harry bob maulucci wrote: I found an interesting article on grips today athttp://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/rodbuilding/customgrip.htmlI found it quite interesting. Worth a look while this thread is still alive. from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Nov 3 18:18:48 2000 eA40IlG05304 Subject: Re: Catch and release Terry,It's good to hear from a professional. Do you think that otherfactors to consider are the holdover rate of the fish and whether theywill propagate. Obviously, in those streams where brook trout are stockedthat cannot support a year-round population (due to summer water temps),C&R is a cruel joke. But then, perhaps the initial stocking is the joke.Does it matter what the slot limits are if the fish will notreproduce in that environment?Sometimes removing a large trout (read "predator") can improve thegeneral fishery, can't it?Wouldn't it decrease the stress on the fish if a "Catch Limit" wasset on each waterbody, that is, each fish brought to hand, whether killedor released, went towards a daily limit for that person on that stream? Ithink that some might slow down and enjoy their day more if they didn'tfeel a need to compete on fish caught, striving ever for the "100 fishday". Just some thoughts. Thanks for your insights.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Terry Finger wrote: To the list: I guess everyone is probably tired of this thread, but I justhad the chance to read through all the recent postings on catchand release and, as a fish biologist, I must add a few comments. After looking at a lot of data from a lot of different freshwaterfisheries, it becomes obvious that even a moderate amount of"typical" (i.e., with moderate size and bag limits) angling has asignificant impact on fish populations. What is often missed inthese discussions is the nature of those impacts. A fish populationwould have to be fished very hard to seriously depress theoverall number of fish present, but it takes surprisingly littlepressure to affect the size distribution of the fish and tosignificantly decrease the number of larger fish present. (Thisholds for bass and bluegill fisheries as well as trout; it is lessclear for migratory species like salmon.) The reasons are fairly obvious: (1) most anglers are more likely tokeep the larger fish, and (2) there are fewer larger (older) fish tobegin with because they have had to survive several years of naturaland angling mortality. The idea that angling mortality largelyreplaces natural mortality doesn't work for most fisheries becausenatural mortality mostly affects smaller fish and angling mortalitymostly affects larger fish. What this means for anglers is thatkeeping a few small fish occasionally for the pan has little impacton most populations, but keeping larger fish is going to have animpact in all but the most remote fisheries. Because anglers have different tastes and different streams andlakes have different habitat conditions, not all fisheries should bemanaged alike. The question for a given fishery is then to decidewhat type of fishery is desireable at that location and to implementappropriate regulations. In areas subject to even moderate anglingpressure (almost everywhere), if you want to have significant numbersof large fish, there has to be some pretty severe harvestrestriction. With anglers taking reasonable care in handling fishduring release, regulations with catch-and-release or very high sizelimits do work; the down side in areas of very high angling pressureis scarred fish. The alternatives are allowing some harvest andhaving significantly fewer large fish, restricting access by anglers(common on private waters; not at all popular on public water), orlimiting gear to the small hooks, hookless flies, etc., discussed onthe list. It's all a matter of what trade-offs we want to make youth: "You can't have your cake and eat it, too." Sorry for the length of this; hope it provides some usefulinformation. Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from Canerods@aol.com Fri Nov 3 18:28:28 2000 eA40SRG05738 Subject: Re: Granger Aristocrat In a message dated 11/3/00 2:39:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,Ron_Elder@cpr.ca writes: Sorry, I've not measured the taper myself. I guess Dave had a hard time selling that rod at $1,250.00, the price is now $950.00 - or maybe this is a different rod? Why not buy an original 9' rod, they're still available for about $200 - $300 in good condition. Don Burns from bob@downandacross.com Fri Nov 3 18:30:34 2000 eA40UYG05917 Subject: Re: Catch and release Hi Reed:I wholeheartedly agree with your catch limit ideas. We are allowed three of any combination on salmon, steelhead, and lake run brown trout. I have no problem with going home after catching and releasing three steeelies. There are two streams here where you could land a dozen in a lucky day, but why bother?Obviously it would be hard to enforce, but it is the day itself that is my goal, not catching 20 fish.Best regards,Bob At 07:20 PM 11/3/00 -0500, you wrote:Wouldn't it decrease the stress on the fish if a "Catch Limit" wasset on each waterbody, that is, each fish brought to hand, whether killedor released, went towards a daily limit for that person on that stream? Ithink that some might slow down and enjoy their day more if they didn'tfeel a need to compete on fish caught, striving ever for the "100 fishday". from caneman@clnk.com Fri Nov 3 18:41:21 2000 eA40fKG06271 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Turning grips? Ron,I start with 60 Grit paper on a 2" wide board just to level the grip allthe way down... Just touch it with the 60 to get the high spots off and makesure you have a perfect cylinder of cork mounted on the shaft. After that,i use another 1" wide board with 100 grit. I use this one to get it down toa little larger than the largest dimension. After that, I have a 1" roundstick that I wrap with 120 to get the grip shaped to the style I want. Ihave a pattern for each of my grip styles that I use strictly as a template.After I get the general shape of my template I use progressively finer gritsof sandpaper, going down to 600 grit, to get my final dimensions. If you goany finer than 600, the grip will actually feel slick when damp. Later,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Turning grips? A question to the list. What does everyone use to start shaping the grip? ARasp? Coarse sandpaper? Sandpaper on a wood backing or in hand? A woodlathetool? Try to figure out what removes the largest amount of cork in thequickest time without damaging (large pits) the cork. I know once I get to this roughed shape I would then finish with variousdegrees of finer paper until I am happy. Thanks in advance....ron Ron ElderCalgary AB from caneman@clnk.com Fri Nov 3 18:54:54 2000 eA40srG06728 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Turning grips? Correction... that second board is a 2" board also. fingers faster thanbrain! :^) Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Turning grips? Ron,I start with 60 Grit paper on a 2" wide board just to level the gripallthe way down... Just touch it with the 60 to get the high spots off andmakesure you have a perfect cylinder of cork mounted on the shaft. After that,i use another 1" wide board with 100 grit. I use this one to get it downtoa little larger than the largest dimension. After that, I have a 1" roundstick that I wrap with 120 to get the grip shaped to the style I want. Ihave a pattern for each of my grip styles that I use strictly as atemplate.After I get the general shape of my template I use progressively finergritsof sandpaper, going down to 600 grit, to get my final dimensions. If yougoany finer than 600, the grip will actually feel slick when damp. Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: Ron_Elder@cpr.ca Date: Friday, November 03, 2000 12:28 PMSubject: Turning grips? A question to the list. What does everyone use to start shaping the grip?ARasp? Coarse sandpaper? Sandpaper on a wood backing or in hand? A woodlathetool? Try to figure out what removes the largest amount of cork in thequickest time without damaging (large pits) the cork. I know once I get to this roughed shape I would then finish with variousdegrees of finer paper until I am happy. Thanks in advance....ron Ron ElderCalgary AB from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 3 18:55:56 2000 eA40ttG06873 ;Sat, 4 Nov 2000 00:55:52 +0000 Subject: Re: Turning grips? Ron, I use a fine four in one file to start. Don't use the very course sidethough. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO A question to the list. What does everyone use to start shaping the grip? Calgary AB from Watford11@aol.com Fri Nov 3 19:10:16 2000 eA41AFG07236 Subject: Unsubscribe --part1_41.2ebdc8d.2734bbf1_boundary Unsubscribe --part1_41.2ebdc8d.2734bbf1_boundary Unsubscribe --part1_41.2ebdc8d.2734bbf1_boundary-- from jfreeman@cyberport.com Fri Nov 3 19:35:35 2000 eA41ZYG07952 Subject: Re: Turning grips? I just use the same hi-speed tool steel stock that's used to make cuttingtools - at least until things are perfectly round. Then I switch over tosandpaper. Haven't pulled out any chunks yet. I had a guy bring over a rodthat he wanted re-handled the other day. We chucked it up and I started incutting off the metal, which went quick and well. Just to see if I could getin trouble with the tool steel and cork, I started hogging off the cork buteverything went just right. Never did get any huge hunks coming off. Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Turning grips? A sharp stiff bladed knife is what I use to do the initial fast shaping ofagrip. I brace the tip at the lathe ways and move the knife toward thechuck(jacobs chuck mounted in place of a three jaw for safety reasons andsparedknuckles when it comes to sand paper time). The knife idea is not original. Just have seen photos of the folks atLeonard, T & T, Edwards, Payne, and a pen and ink drawing of Ron Kusseusingthe method. FInally got the nerve to do the same.Chris from Watford11@aol.com Fri Nov 3 20:01:06 2000 eA4215G08410 Subject: Unsubscribe --part1_f3.42dda79.2734c7c9_boundary unsubscribe --part1_f3.42dda79.2734c7c9_boundary unsubscribe --part1_f3.42dda79.2734c7c9_boundary-- from mrmac@tcimet.net Fri Nov 3 21:33:34 2000 eA43XXG09899 Subject: Hollow rods I wuz just wundrin'....When you do a hollowbuilt rod, is there anything special you need to door can do to keep excess glue from filling the inside? I have a fairamount of ooze going to the outside, and it would seem to me that if Ihollow the rod, then I'd probably get a fair amount inside, too - or isthat desirable? Thinkin' ahead to this winter and maybe doing Harry's (et al) salmonrod, but I've never done any hollowbuilts. thanks, mac from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Nov 3 22:43:27 2000 eA44hQG10774 Fri, 3 Nov 2000 20:43:24 -0800 Subject: Re: Hollow rods Ralph,I used epoxy, and followed a tip I read somewhere (maybe from RichardT.?) and sort of painted it on with a stiff bristled tooth brush. I triednot to let too much get on the inside, and when I did, I just wiped it offwith a rag moistened in vinegar. Tom Smithwick was a big help to me. Hope I can pass along some of thegoodwill he sent my way. Harry Ralph MacKenzie wrote: I wuz just wundrin'....When you do a hollowbuilt rod, is there anything special you need to door can do to keep excess glue from filling the inside? I have a fairamount of ooze going to the outside, and it would seem to me that if Ihollow the rod, then I'd probably get a fair amount inside, too - or isthat desirable? Thinkin' ahead to this winter and maybe doing Harry's (et al) salmonrod, but I've never done any hollowbuilts. thanks, mac --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from newmin@ptdprolog.net Sat Nov 4 06:33:57 2000 eA4CXuG14357 Subject: varnish on cork This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C04633.03CFCB80 Hello room,I've had a 8' Montague Sunbeam hanging around for a few years. It's =not great but will make a servicable rod for someone. I have a neighbor =kid who wants it and to have me help him refinish it . The only problem =is that someone varnished the grip. Any suggestion on removing this =varnish other than chucking it up and using sandpaper?ThanksNewmin My girlfriend thinks i've finally gone over the edge. She thinks using =dial calipers on the chex cereal at breakfast is strange. I told her I =went over the edge when I started dating her! ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C04633.03CFCB80 Hello room, around = neighbor kid who wants it and to have me help him refinish it . The only = is that someone varnished the grip. Any suggestion on removing this = other than chucking it up and using sandpaper?ThanksNewmin her! ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C04633.03CFCB80-- from jfreeman@cyberport.com Sat Nov 4 08:37:48 2000 eA4EblG16700 Subject: Re: varnish on cork This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C04632.CAB766A0 Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 5:44 AMSubject: varnish on cork Hello room,I've had a 8' Montague Sunbeam hanging around for a few years. It's =not great but will make a servicable rod for someone. I have a neighbor =kid who wants it and to have me help him refinish it . The only problem =is that someone varnished the grip. Any suggestion on removing this =varnish other than chucking it up and using sandpaper?ThanksNewmin My girlfriend thinks i've finally gone over the edge. She thinks =using dial calipers on the chex cereal at breakfast is strange. I told =her I went over the edge when I started dating her! ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C04632.CAB766A0 That's it!!! Never give an inch and = ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, November 04, = AMSubject: varnish on cork Hello room, have a neighbor kid who wants it and to have me help him refinish it . = only problem is that someone varnished the grip. Any suggestion on = this varnish other than chucking it up and using =sandpaper?ThanksNewmin her! ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C04632.CAB766A0-- from grau@buchlang.com Sat Nov 4 08:49:06 2000 eA4En5G17019 Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: Re: varnish on cork --------------F8B0467DA5DF69A9F5B63102 My Girlfriend thinks i`m also strange - im bathing with canestrips thanwith her - wet planing. *lol* Stefan Jim & Sallyann Freeman schrieb: That's it!!! Never give an inch and lie, lie, lie. ----- Original Message -----From: Newmin Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 5:44 AMSubject: varnish on corkHello room, I've had a 8' Montague Sunbeam hanging around rod for someone. I have a neighbor kid who wants it and tohave me help him refinish it . The only problem is thatsomeone varnished the grip. Any suggestion on removing thisvarnish other than chucking it up and usingsandpaper?ThanksNewmin My girlfriend thinks i've finallygone over the edge. She thinks using dial calipers on thechex cereal at breakfast is strange. I told her I went overthe edge when I started dating her! --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht.____ The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. This e-mail is intended only for the stated addressee. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy, circulate or in any other way use or rely ontheinformation contained in this e-mail. If you have received this e- mailinerror, please inform us immediately and delete it and all copies fromyoursystem. --------------F8B0467DA5DF69A9F5B63102 My Girlfriend thinks i`m also strange - im bathing with canestrips thanwith her - wet planing.*lol*StefanJim & Sallyann Freeman schrieb: That's ----- Original Message ----- From:Newmin Sent: Saturday, November 04, 20005:44 AM Subject: varnish on cork Montague Sunbeam hanging around for a few years. It's not great but will it and to have me help him refinish it . The only problem is that someonevarnished the grip. Any suggestion on removing this varnish other than girlfriend thinks i've finally gone over the edge. She thinks using dial her I went over the edge when I started dating --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9Lang InfoAccess ist eine GeschäftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.htmlTel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch.Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind für den/die Empfänger/in bestimmt, welche/r in derAdresszeileaufgeführtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Gründen nicht mit diesenAdressatenübereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulöschen.Sämtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegenim UebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht.____The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. This e-mailisintended only for the stated addressee. If you are not an addressee,youmust not disclose, copy, circulate or in any other way use or relyon theinformation contained in this e-mail. If you have received this e-mailinerror, please inform us immediately and delete it and all copies fromyoursystem. --------------F8B0467DA5DF69A9F5B63102-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Nov 4 08:52:28 2000 eA4EqRG17214 VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) 4 Nov 2000 09:52:29 -0500 Subject: Andy Barr I'd appreciate any information on Canadian rod maker Andy Barr. I know heproduced excellent quality 5-sided rods but apart from that, I knownothing. Any info would be helpful since I want to write a small biographyto ensure that he is remembered in the history of rod building. Many thanks, Richard from bamboo@pa.net Sat Nov 4 09:39:14 2000 eA4FdCG17882 Subject: Hand splitting technique This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C04654.52DA2880 A million thank yous to whoever it was that posted the hand splitting =technique. Finally able to control the splitting and not have it walk =on me. I think it will be nice not to have to plane a 1/2 inch off of =my tip strips also. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C04654.52DA2880 A million thank yous to whoever it was= inch off of my tip strips also. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C04654.52DA2880-- from briansr@point-net.com Sat Nov 4 11:19:07 2000 eA4HJ7G19060 Sat, 4 Nov 2000 12:19:06 -0500 "Rodmakers \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Andy Barr RichardI'll fwd info on his living relatives. AB was not only a talented rodbuilder but he was an excellent fly tyer.One of his flies we now just callthe "Barr Fly" is excellent on the Matapedia for Salmon His wife is stillalive .I 'll go with you if you want to interview her .A friend of mine alsohelped AB in his basement,working on his rods (and drinking a fewbrewsis)!!!Cheers Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Andy Barr I'd appreciate any information on Canadian rod maker Andy Barr. I know heproduced excellent quality 5-sided rods but apart from that, I knownothing. Any info would be helpful since I want to write a small biographyto ensure that he is remembered in the history of rod building. Many thanks, Richard from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Nov 4 11:41:20 2000 eA4HfJG19439 09:41:11 PST Subject: Re: varnish on cork we have common intrests and i love you all but this iswhy i fish alone. :-) timothy --- Stefan Grau wrote:My Girlfriend thinks i`m also strange - im bathingwith canestrips Stefan My girlfriend thinksi've finallygone over the edge. She thinks using dialcalipers on thechex cereal at breakfast is strange. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.http://shopping.yahoo.com/ from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Nov 4 12:18:57 2000 eA4IIuG20034 VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) "'Rodmakers (E-mail)'" Subject: RE: Andy Barr Hi Brian, I decided to do this because I did a search on the web for Andy Barr andfound absolutely nothing. And yet so many people in eastern Canada seem tohave heard of him. So, I'd like to write an article about him and his pentarods and send it to a magazine or post it on a site. Any help anyone couldgive me in this area would be most welcome. Thanks, Richard -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 12:18 PM Subject: Re: Andy Barr RichardI'll fwd info on his living relatives. AB was not only a talented rodbuilder but he was an excellent fly tyer.One of his flies wenow just callthe "Barr Fly" is excellent on the Matapedia for Salmon Hiswife is stillalive .I 'll go with you if you want to interview her .Afriend of mine alsohelped AB in his basement,working on his rods (and drinking a fewbrewsis)!!!Cheers Brian----- Original Message -----From: "Richard Nantel" Sent: November 4, 2000 9:51 AMSubject: Andy Barr I'd appreciate any information on Canadian rod maker AndyBarr. I know heproduced excellent quality 5-sided rods but apart from that, I knownothing. Any info would be helpful since I want to write asmall biographyto ensure that he is remembered in the history of rod building. Many thanks, Richard from jhat38@centurytel.net Sat Nov 4 16:54:34 2000 eA4MsYG23396 eA4MsW225057 Organization: DNA Subject: 6ft Taper Can some one give me the taper of the 6ft rod that Al Medville had atthe SRG..Thanks..Jim from rbrand@mmcable.com Sat Nov 4 17:13:41 2000 eA4NDeG23699 Sat, 4 Nov 2000 17:12:01 -0600 Subject: Glue This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C04682.B46B5640 Hello ListHas anyone used Elmers ProBond to glue up their rods, not splices but =the rod itself. TIARodney Brand ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C04682.B46B5640 glue = rods, not splices but the rod itself. TIARodney Brand ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C04682.B46B5640-- from channer1@rmi.net Sat Nov 4 17:40:32 2000 eA4NeVG24170 Subject: Phoenix line field test report Guys;I finally got a chance to fish my new Phoenix 4dt. today on the San Juanand I'm hooked! I can't belive how much nicer it was to cast than themodern lines I have. I wanted to use it on my Perfectionist taper, but Ibroke the tip on it a few weeks ago and haven't finshed varnishing theend of the tip where I scarfed it yet, so I strung up the little 6611with it and went out to do battle. I'm thrilled to say that both theline and the rod performed far beyond my expectations. The line floatedlite as a feather, turned over the leader beautifully, and shot out likean arrow. I used a hand tied leader on it that I made from A.K. Best'sformula in one of the Bamboo Fly Rod Magazines, who else would know howto tie any better leader for a cane rod. I can't praise the line enough,I'm really pleased with it, it didn't even need to be greased again atlunch time, I just pulled the line I had out off the reel and hung it inmy van to dry while I was having my traditional tacos at Sportsman'sInn. Thanks to Bob Maulucci for going to the trouble of getting theselines for us, those of you who haven't got yours yet, don't worry,they're worth the wait.John from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sat Nov 4 18:27:20 2000 eA50RJG24836 +0000 Subject: rattan/srg Hello All, While gladding about at the SRG, I missed the rattan wrapping seminar.Would some kind soul please inform me as to the size of rattan that wasrecommended. Thanks! Regards, Steve from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Nov 4 18:33:21 2000 eA50XLG25031 Sat, 4 Nov 2000 18:36:27 -0600 Subject: Re: 6ft Taper I was going to post the same request. Would like to have it too.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jim Hatfield wrote: Can some one give me the taper of the 6ft rod that Al Medville had atthe SRG..Thanks..Jim from ROBERT.KOPE@prodigy.net Sat Nov 4 21:44:50 2000 eA53ioG27380 eA53inK218468;Sat, 4 Nov 2000 22:44:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Glue This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C04698.328627C0 Rodney, I've used it on my last 2 blanks and so far I don't see a down side. No =measuring, no mixing, plenty of open time, absolutely invisible glue =lines on blonde rods, and I've had no problems using a heat gun to =remove twists from the blanks. I haven't fished either rod yet, but I = I've been spraying the splines with a light mist of water before =brushing the glue on. The sections have some foaming on them when the =glue cures, but that only seems to happen where the glue is thick. =Between the splines the glue layer is thin enough that there are =apparently no bubbles. I can't even see a glue line on polished cross =sections. I've heard that if you get the glue on your skin, it will be there until =it wears off. I wear latex gloves to do my glueing and have been =fortunate enough to have had no opportunity to verify this yet. The =only problem I've encountered is getting the glue off the outside of the =blank after it's cured. It seems to take a lot of very careful sanding. =It is difficult to tell when you have the glue off because the glue is =nearly transparent and about the ame color as blonde cane. I'd be real =interested in hearing if anyone has any tricks for getting the excess = -- Robert Kope -----Original Message----- Subject: Glue Hello ListHas anyone used Elmers ProBond to glue up their rods, not splices =but the rod itself. TIARodney Brand ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C04698.328627C0 Rodney, I've used it on my last 2 blanksand = absolutely invisible glue lines on blonde rods, and I've had no problems = I've been spraying the splines with a light mist of = the glue cures, but that only seems to happen where the glue is = Between the splines the glue layer is thin enough that there are = sections. I've heard that if you get the glue on your skin, it = been fortunate enough to have had no opportunity to verify this = only problem I've encountered is getting the glue off the outside of the = in hearing if anyone has any tricks for getting the excess polyurethane = -- Robert Kope -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu=<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Saturday, November 04, 2000 3:16 PMSubject: =Glue = their rods, not splices but the rod itself. TIARodney =Brand ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C04698.328627C0-- from djk762@hotmail.com Sat Nov 4 23:26:18 2000 eA55QIG28641 Sat, 4 Nov 2000 21:26:15 -0800 Sun, 05 Nov 2000 05:26:14 GMT Subject: Wayne's 2 wts FILETIME=[EABEBE60:01C046E8] Rodmakers- Anyone have experience comparing the 6'6" and 7'0" 2wts. from Wayne's book?I have a guy who wants a 7'0" 2wt. and is an E.C. Powell fan - he is used to fairly light fast rods.Do the 2wts. have the same feel as the famous 4wt.?And between the 6'6" and 7'0" is the 6'6" much faster? -David Kashuba._________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Nov 4 23:55:14 2000 eA55tCG29028 Sun, 5 Nov 2000 13:55:00 +0800 Subject: Re: Hand splitting technique I think that was a tag team match brought to you by Bob Nunley & PeterMcKean. Tony At 11:42 AM 11/4/00 -0200, Bill Taylor wrote: A million thank yous to whoever it was that posted the hand splittingtechnique. Finally able to control the splitting and not have it walk onme. I think it will be nice not to have to plane a 1/2 inch off of my tipstrips also. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Nov 5 04:02:00 2000 eA5A1xG01219 +0100 Subject: Sv: Glue This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C04718.7FE3DA00 Listers I=B4ve recently started using PU glue and have had the followingresults: Yes, DO wear thin rubber gloves. The stuff colours Your handsblack, and it will stick for at least a week. When straightening blanks, the bamboo burns black beforethe glue quits. When freshly glued and bound, I wipe of excess glue withone of those thinners which have all sorts of myseriouslabels on the bottle - I use what in danish is called acetone,dont know the english name. Somebody else, help out please. Were it not for the fact that I loathe working with gloves,PU would be the ideal glue for rodmaking regards,carsten ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C04718.7FE3DA00 Listers I=B4ve recently started using PU glue = the followingresults: Yes, DO wear thin rubber gloves. The = Your handsblack, and it will stick for at least a = week. When straightening blanks, the bamboo= beforethe glue quits. When freshly glued and bound, I wipe of= withone of those thinners which have all = myseriouslabels on the bottle - I use what in = called acetone,dont know the english name. Somebody= please. Were it not for the fact that I loathe = gloves, rodmaking regards,carsten ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C04718.7FE3DA00-- from dnorl@uswest.net Sun Nov 5 05:48:47 2000 eA5BmlG02657 (63.228.4.245) Subject: Re: Phoenix line field test report John,I also tie my own leaders and have been experimenting with a smallerdiameter in the butt section of the leader.It seems to me at this point Ican go down to about .017 in the butt. If you try something like this stayin touch and let me know how it comes out for you.Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: Phoenix line field test report Guys;I finally got a chance to fish my new Phoenix 4dt. today on the San Juanand I'm hooked! I can't belive how much nicer it was to cast than themodern lines I have. I wanted to use it on my Perfectionist taper, but Ibroke the tip on it a few weeks ago and haven't finshed varnishing theend of the tip where I scarfed it yet, so I strung up the little 6611with it and went out to do battle. I'm thrilled to say that both theline and the rod performed far beyond my expectations. The line floatedlite as a feather, turned over the leader beautifully, and shot out likean arrow. I used a hand tied leader on it that I made from A.K. Best'sformula in one of the Bamboo Fly Rod Magazines, who else would know howto tie any better leader for a cane rod. I can't praise the line enough,I'm really pleased with it, it didn't even need to be greased again atlunch time, I just pulled the line I had out off the reel and hung it inmy van to dry while I was having my traditional tacos at Sportsman'sInn. Thanks to Bob Maulucci for going to the trouble of getting theselines for us, those of you who haven't got yours yet, don't worry,they're worth the wait.John from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Nov 5 07:23:23 2000 eA5DNMG03191 Sun, 5 Nov 2000 08:23:23 -0500 "flytyr@southshore.com" (5.0.2195;1) Subject: Re: 6ft Taper --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963456=_=_=_ Hey guys First it is Al Medved. Second the taper is the "Smidgen" and it has been posted to the taperarchive on Rodmakers under Paul Young. Chris On Sat, 04 Nov 2000 15:20:35 -0600, Tony Spezio wrote: I was going to post the same request. Would like to have it too.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jim Hatfield wrote: Can some one give me the taper of the 6ft rod that Al Medville had atthe SRG..Thanks..Jim --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963456=_=_=_ Hey guys First it is Al Medved. Second the taper is the "Smidgen" and it has been posted to thetaperarchive on Rodmakers under Paul Young. Chris On Sat, 04 Nov 2000 15:20:35 -0600, Tony Spezio wrote: had at --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4963456=_=_=_-- from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 5 07:42:55 2000 eA5DgsG03425 +0000 Subject: Rattan Thanks to all who responded on the size! from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Nov 5 07:51:05 2000 eA5Dp4G03603 +0100 Subject: Re.: Glue This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C04738.80D72D20 Was kindly informed off-list that acetonein english is.........acetone. Next time I=B4ll consult a dictionaryinstead of looking like an idiot(no comments, please:-)))) regards,carsten ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C04738.80D72D20 acetonein english =is.........acetone. Next time I=B4ll consult a =dictionaryinstead of looking like an = (no comments, please:-)))) thanks guys regards,carsten ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C04738.80D72D20-- from jhat38@centurytel.net Sun Nov 5 08:54:48 2000 eA5EslG04637 eA5Esi219999 Organization: DNA Subject: 6ft Taper First .... my apology for misspelling Al Medved's name ..Second ...appreciate all that gave me the taper on the 6ft rod...Third ... went to the archives and got the taper & started splitting theculm early this morning.Again Thanks to the group...now I go eat breakfast Good morning Chris... Jim from channer1@rmi.net Sun Nov 5 09:11:56 2000 eA5FBtG04956 Subject: Re: Rattan Hey Steve;Don't keep it to yourself, some of the rest of us would like to know,too.John Steve Trauthwein wrote: Thanks to all who responded on the size! from cfreaner@hq.nasa.gov Sun Nov 5 09:55:54 2000 eA5FtsG05789 Subject: Source for Rattan Here is one source for purchasing the rattan. http://www.basketmakerscatalog.com/ Usual disclaimers, other than my wife has purchased quite a bit of basket-making supplies from these people . Claude from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun Nov 5 12:40:30 2000 eA5IeTG07742 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Budget Ferrules Last time I checked, Janns only had some weird center ferrules... they havea huge bulge in the middle of the female and look gross... Darrellwww.vfish.net Still waiting for my DSL conversion! -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Budget Ferrules Rodney,You can get the cheap-o ferrules from Jann's Netcraft.But let me warn you -- This is a BAD idea!!!!!! I don'tcare how poor you are, your first few bamboo rods deservethe very best hardware you can find.You wouldn't put an AM only radio in a Cadillac, wouldyou? There's a better analogy, but it doesn't come to mindright now....Go in with a few other guys and put together an order from CSE, or REC, or Bellinger, or someone who sells qualityferrules. Someone posted a note to that effect to the listlast week. You can get the good stuff for about $25-30 perset if you buy in quantity. And the quantities aren't asbig as you would think. Make a few phone calls, and ask thedifferent mfr.'s what their minimum order for quantitydiscounts is. It will be worth your while. Heck, if that doesn't work, let me know, off-list.(Rodney only) I'll sell you enough ferrules for one rod atthe price I paid.... Harry Boyd Rodney Brand wrote: Hello List Does anyone out there know where I can get NSplated brass ferrules. I need to go cheap on my firstcouple of rods. Spent all my money on tools. : ) TIARodneyBrand --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from eharrison241@earthlink.net Sun Nov 5 13:43:29 2000 eA5JhSG08636 LAA12158 Subject: Re: Budget Ferrules The nickel plated brass ferrules on page 59 of the Netcraft 2000 cataloglookfine to me. The first time you try to build a Caddy you will probably wind upwith a Chevy. If you use hot melt glue you can replace the ferrules with NSlater. Brass ferrules were used by English and Japanese builders and havelasted for 50 years or more. I could sure but a lot of them for the price ofNSand they don't need to be fitted to each other. Just my $.02Ernie ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Budget Ferrules Last time I checked, Janns only had some weird center ferrules... theyhavea huge bulge in the middle of the female and look gross... Darrellwww.vfish.net Still waiting for my DSL conversion! -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 7:19 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Budget Ferrules Rodney,You can get the cheap-o ferrules from Jann's Netcraft.But let me warn you -- This is a BAD idea!!!!!! I don'tcare how poor you are, your first few bamboo rods deservethe very best hardware you can find.You wouldn't put an AM only radio in a Cadillac, wouldyou? There's a better analogy, but it doesn't come to mindright now....Go in with a few other guys and put together an order from CSE, or REC, or Bellinger, or someone who sells qualityferrules. Someone posted a note to that effect to the listlast week. You can get the good stuff for about $25-30 perset if you buy in quantity. And the quantities aren't asbig as you would think. Make a few phone calls, and ask thedifferent mfr.'s what their minimum order for quantitydiscounts is. It will be worth your while. Heck, if that doesn't work, let me know, off-list.(Rodney only) I'll sell you enough ferrules for one rod atthe price I paid.... Harry Boyd Rodney Brand wrote: Hello List Does anyone out there know where I can get NSplated brass ferrules. I need to go cheap on my firstcouple of rods. Spent all my money on tools. : ) TIARodneyBrand --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from Watford11@aol.com Sun Nov 5 16:26:18 2000 eA5MQHG11096 Subject: Unsubscribe --part1_c8.c5b0028.2737387e_boundary Please unsubscribe me to your mailing list. Thank you Watford11@aol.com --part1_c8.c5b0028.2737387e_boundary Please unsubscribe me to your mailing list. --part1_c8.c5b0028.2737387e_boundary-- from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 5 17:13:20 2000 eA5NDJG11982 ;Sun, 5 Nov 2000 23:13:16 +0000 Subject: Re: Rattan chaircane, fine fine, 2.25 mm channer wrote: Hey Steve;Don't keep it to yourself, some of the rest of us would like to know,too.John Steve Trauthwein wrote: Thanks to all who responded on the size! from Collins@dccnet.com Sun Nov 5 19:32:02 2000 eA61W1G13998 yoda.dccnet.com ;Sun, 5 Nov 2000 17:32:03 -0800 Subject: Re: Glue I used Elmer's Pu glue for my last two rods, a PHY Midge and a Payne 200.While, these were nodeless rods almost everything was glued with PU glue;splices, splines, ferrules, even the tip top. Titebond II was used for the corkhandle and a 6 hour epoxy glued on the reel seat. The glue up was easy, the working time more than adequate. I use a twotoothbrush technique to put the glue on the splines, one to lightly wet them, then Idribble the glue down the splines and follow with the second brush to "scrub"the glue into the all over the two inner sides of the splines. They I roll themback up and use a home built four-string binder to bind them. I roll the rodsections straight as they come out of the binder and simply hang them todry.I use a small palm plane to take off the binding thread and glue followed bya light sanding. On one rod I planed the binding string off around the 5-6hour mark. The glue had set but was not real hard yet. This was a lot lesswork than planing off the hardened glue. I let them harden up for severaldays and then used my heat gun to straighten any curves left. The rodblanks respond very well to heat treatment Both rods were fished quite heavily on a recent fishing trip they werecrisp and lively. The fishing was great and both rods landed a lot of fish.Old time "carbon casters" really like the rods one commented after castingthe midge a long way across the river, "Hey, this is only a 6' rod!" Part way through the trip I discovered that I had a slight twist in one of thePayne tips. I fished the other tip that day and that night, back at the lodge,a few moments with a hair dryer and viola it was straight as an arrow shaft. I'm very happy with the results so far with this glue and have no plans toorder special epoxies anytime soon. Oh, yes, I do were gloves. Both they and that second tooth brush mentionedabove don't last more than one gluing session. Our house hold has a new ruleI get ALL the old tooth brushes. Doug Collins from rfairfield@bendcable.com Sun Nov 5 19:50:32 2000 eA61oWG14559 Sun, 5 Nov 2000 17:39:47 -0800 Subject: Re: Budget Ferrules I have used these ferrules on a few rods. The larger sizes seemed to fitquite okay; my experience with the small (10-11/64) sizes was that theywere quite loose. Yup, you can buy a bunch of them for the cost of anickel silver ferrule, but the NS ones are much nicer, and fit better, ifproperly prepared. The finish on the plated brass ferrules is not as niceas the ones that are machines. I'm pretty sure the ones in Netcraft aredrawn. My $0.02 worth. Thanks,RogerAt 11:39 AM 11/5/00 -0800, Ernie Harrison wrote: The nickel plated brass ferrules on page 59 of the Netcraft 2000 cataloglookfine to me. The first time you try to build a Caddy you will probably wind upwith a Chevy. If you use hot melt glue you can replace the ferrules with NSlater. Brass ferrules were used by English and Japanese builders and havelasted for 50 years or more. I could sure but a lot of them for the price of NSand they don't need to be fitted to each other. Just my $.02Ernie ----- Original Message -----From: "Darrell A. Lee" Cc: Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 10:27 AMSubject: RE: Budget Ferrules Last time I checked, Janns only had some weird center ferrules... theyhavea huge bulge in the middle of the female and look gross... Darrellwww.vfish.net Still waiting for my DSL conversion! -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 7:19 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Budget Ferrules Rodney,You can get the cheap-o ferrules from Jann's Netcraft.But let me warn you -- This is a BAD idea!!!!!! I don'tcare how poor you are, your first few bamboo rods deservethe very best hardware you can find.You wouldn't put an AM only radio in a Cadillac, wouldyou? There's a better analogy, but it doesn't come to mindright now....Go in with a few other guys and put together an order from CSE, or REC, or Bellinger, or someone who sells qualityferrules. Someone posted a note to that effect to the listlast week. You can get the good stuff for about $25-30 perset if you buy in quantity. And the quantities aren't asbig as you would think. Make a few phone calls, and ask thedifferent mfr.'s what their minimum order for quantitydiscounts is. It will be worth your while. Heck, if that doesn't work, let me know, off-list.(Rodney only) I'll sell you enough ferrules for one rod atthe price I paid.... Harry Boyd Rodney Brand wrote: Hello List Does anyone out there know where I can get NSplated brass ferrules. I need to go cheap on my firstcouple of rods. Spent all my money on tools. : ) TIARodneyBrand --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from grau@buchlang.com Mon Nov 6 06:44:19 2000 eA6CiIG22731 (MET) Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?60=B0?= center gauge Gang Any online shop has 60Ÿ center gauge`s for sale? Thanks Stefan --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht.____ The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. This e-mail is intended only for the stated addressee. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy, circulate or in any other way use or rely ontheinformation contained in this e-mail. If you have received this e- mailinerror, please inform us immediately and delete it and all copies fromyoursystem. from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Mon Nov 6 13:05:37 2000 eA6J5ZG06709 Comments: Authenticated sender is Organization: Missouri House of Representatives Subject: Re: Catch and release To Reed and the list, Hi Reed,Sorry to be slow to respond to your insightful questions; I didn't have access to my email over the weekend. I'm sure others may have differeent opinions than mine, but for what it's worth, here are some thoughts with regard to your questions: Do you think that other factors to consider are the holdover rateof the fish and whether they will propagate. Obviously, in those streams where brook trout are stocked that cannot support a year-round population (due to summer water temps), C&R is a cruel joke. But then, perhaps the initial stocking is the joke. Yes, the amount of suitable spawning habitat is a major factor in any management decision. If there is no or very little natural reproduction (a "put-and-grow") fishery, protecting fish in certain size ranges only serves the purpose of providing desired sizes of fish for anglers to catch. Where significant natural reproduction is possible, protecting fish in certain size ranges serves the added purpose of ensuring some fish reach spawning size/age. One of the positive developments in fishery management in the last 20 years has been an increasing realization that all fisheries should not be managed the same way. We should provide a variety of experiences for anglers of different types (C&R here, put-and-take there, etc.), and base the decision of what we do where on the available habitat. It is a tremendous waste to have a put-and-take fishery in an area with great spawning habitat, but that kind of a fishery (or a put-and-grow fishery) may be a good use of an area with no potential for natural reproduction. The type of fishery you mention above, where fish are stocked where they cannot survive the year, is obviously the ultimate put-and-take situation, with no opportunity for fish to hold over and grow. In some of these and other put-and-take situations I have recently seen C&R suggested as part of what is beginning to be called a "delayed harvest" fishery. The idea is that the stocked fish are "recycled" among anglers through C&R for the first part of the year, then the C&R regs are removed to allow harvest before the fish die anyway. This and other put-and-take fisheries aren't the kind that appeal to me personally, but delayed harvest does make more efficient use of hatchery fish and there are anglers that enjoy this kind of fishing. I do think it is inappropriate for areas with good spawning habitat. Does it matter what the slot limits are if the fish will notreproduce in that environment? The basic idea of slot-length limits is to provide, while still protecting larger fish, a way to thin out small fish and thus prevent overcrowding and slow growth. Without natural reproduction, I see no reason for a slot length limit. Sometimes removing a large trout (read "predator") can improve thegeneral fishery, can't it? There are important predator/prey relationships in fisheries; the most common is the classic bass/bluegill pond scenario. Certainly different harvest regs on bass, which are highly piscivorous at all ages, have a pronounced effect on the fish populations of these ponds (this is a complicated story in itself, and too long for here). Until they get very large, however, trout aren't nearly as piscivorous as bass. Because there are so very few trout of such size present in nearly all fisheries, I doubt that removing one large trout would have much effect on the other fish (There probably are some small, isolated spring creek or pond fisheries that are exceptions). Wouldn't it decrease the stress on the fish if a "Catch Limit" wasset on each waterbody, that is, each fish brought to hand, whether killedor released, went towards a daily limit for that person on that stream? Ithink that some might slow down and enjoy their day more if they didn'tfeel a need to compete on fish caught, striving ever for the "100 fishday". Absolutely. The problem here, of course, as Bob Maulucci mentioned, is enforcement. Without watching each angler, a conservation agent would have no way to tell how many fish had been brought to hand. No agency is therefore going to put this kind of reg on the books. I guess this kind of idea is best promoted voluntarily, just as we now have a lot of voluntarily C&R. To get over this competition thing, lately I have tried telling relatively new flyfishers that to really understand what it is all about you must go fishing alone, catch a truly memorable fish, and then not tell anyone about it. It may help them focus on the experience, rather than on a comparison to what others are doing. Thanks for your comments; hope this makes sense. Regards,Terry Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from djk762@hotmail.com Mon Nov 6 13:42:06 2000 eA6Jg5G07947 Mon, 6 Nov 2000 11:41:57 -0800 Mon, 06 Nov 2000 19:41:57 GMT Subject: Wayne's 2wts. FILETIME=[9FD48D20:01C04829] Rodmakers- A guy wants me to make him a 7' 2wt. He fishes hollow-built E.C. Powells - light fairly fast rods.Do the 6'6" and 7' 2wt. rods based on Wayne's popular 7' 4wt.(as published in his latest edition) retain a similar action as the 4wt.?Does the 6'6" have significantly more speed than the 7'?And finally, no he is not going to fish steelhead with the rod-4"and 5" sierra bows in streams one can spit across. David KashubaSacramento CA._________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. from dannyt@frisurf.no Mon Nov 6 16:32:50 2000 eA6MWnG14346 (MET)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Books Due to low activity on the List, last couple of weeks, I have one for you. I've consider myself as an "history less" (terms?) newbie rodmaker.I started flyfishing 4 years ago, never was interested in fishing before,and rodmaking the next winter!! I had seen some cane rods before, and Ifound them beautiful, so I wanted to buy a one as my first rod. But the guyin the shop taught it was a bad idea, so out I went with a graphite 3 piece9' #5/6 kit rod. The guy in the shop is a close friend of mine now, he own lots of canerods,old and new!!!I swoped the kit for a nice wading jacket with him:-) Out in the stream I tried to get the hang on the gear, but all I got was thethrees. Out on a big grass field, I dry caste and managed to get 10m lineout, with lots of knots not only on the leader.....I fished the kit for acouple of weeks. The next time I was in the shop, they had a sweet Chapmanmade 7' #3/4 Garrison taper for sale. The former owner never figured outhowto cast the rod. I bought it, and when I tried it with my new reel/line,I saw the light!! I could feel the rod load, and I could actually get moreline out with far less tangle and knots. The other day a borrowed a book of a friend, John Gierach, I've only read acouple of chapters, but I've found so many similarities in what I'veexperience my self. I'm starting to learn my history too! So do You Listmembers have other books to recommend? I'm a lousy writer in norwegian, so this must be terribly:-) regardsdanny from piscator@macatawa.org Mon Nov 6 17:10:53 2000 eA6NAqG15679 Subject: Re: Books This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0481D.36EB0FC0 Danny, Robert Traver's Trout Madness and Trout Magic; Ray Bergman's Trout, =most anything by John Gierach (ignore the story about the Jordan River. =He was wrong to write about it and the fish are all dead now anyway.) =Parts of AJ McClane's Fishing Encyclopedia, lotsa Nick Lyons' stuff, =anything by Ed Zern, Charles Ritz' A Fly Fisher's Life, and about a =million other books I can't think of right now. Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0481D.36EB0FC0 Danny, = Trout Madness and Trout Magic; Ray Bergman's = most anything by John Gierach (ignore the story about the Jordan = of AJ McClane's Fishing Encyclopedia, lotsa Nick Lyons' stuff, anything = Zern, Charles Ritz' A Fly Fisher's Life, and about a million = books I can't think of right now. Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0481D.36EB0FC0-- from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Mon Nov 6 17:19:13 2000 eA6NJCG16070 Mon, 6 Nov 2000 23:19:10 +0000 Subject: Re: Books Danny, I would suggest you try to get a copies of the following 'history'books;1) Colorado Classic Cane by Dick Spur and Michael Sinclair2) Classic Bamboo Rodmakers-past and present also by Dick SpurI can personally recommend both the above books.....best regards.,Paul Danny Twang wrote: Due to low activity on the List, last couple of weeks, I have one for you. I've consider myself as an "history less" (terms?) newbie rodmaker.I started flyfishing 4 years ago, never was interested in fishing before,and rodmaking the next winter!! I had seen some cane rods before, and Ifound them beautiful, so I wanted to buy a one as my first rod. But the guyin the shop taught it was a bad idea, so out I went with a graphite 3 piece9' #5/6 kit rod.The guy in the shop is a close friend of mine now, he own lots of canerods,old and new!!!I swoped the kit for a nice wading jacket with him:-) Out in the stream I tried to get the hang on the gear, but all I got was thethrees. Out on a big grass field, I dry caste and managed to get 10m lineout, with lots of knots not only on the leader.....I fished the kit for acouple of weeks. The next time I was in the shop, they had a sweetChapmanmade 7' #3/4 Garrison taper for sale. The former owner never figured outhowto cast the rod. I bought it, and when I tried it with my new reel/line,I saw the light!! I could feel the rod load, and I could actually get moreline out with far less tangle and knots. The other day a borrowed a book of a friend, John Gierach, I've only read acouple of chapters, but I've found so many similarities in what I'veexperience my self. I'm starting to learn my history too! So do You Listmembers have other books to recommend? I'm a lousy writer in norwegian, so this must be terribly:-) regardsdanny from rbrand@mmcable.com Mon Nov 6 17:25:14 2000 eA6NPDG16361 Mon, 6 Nov 2000 17:23:29 -0600 Subject: Setting Forms This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C04816.A4EDC460 Hello List (again)More questions. You all are greatly appreciated on this end for your =patience and knowledge, I just hope you continue to bear with me. :)Here goes, In reference to the numbers given on a rod taper do you =transfer those exact numbers to your final forms or do you divide them =in half ? I think I read in Wayne's book that you should divide (most =tapers) in half. If this is correct,how do you know what taper to divide =and which one not to? Thanks So Much Rodney Brand ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C04816.A4EDC460 Hello List (again) end for your patience and knowledge, I just hope you continue to bear = :) = rod taper do you transfer those exact numbers to your final forms or do = divide them in half ? I think I read in Wayne's book that you should = (most tapers) in half. If this is correct,how do you know what taper to = and which one not to? Thanks So Much Rodney Brand ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C04816.A4EDC460-- from Canerods@aol.com Mon Nov 6 17:29:43 2000 eA6NTgG16633 Subject: Re: Books In a message dated 11/6/00 2:33:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, dannyt@frisurf.no writes: Danny, Your English is much better than any of the rodmakers Norwegian! (speaking for myself) Your casting style must be somewhat like my own - I never enjoyed learningon a graphite rod. Try to find any other books written by Gierach, most will have a chapter or two about bamboo. His "Fishing Bamboo" is the most interesting in thatregard. There's also "Bamboo Fly rod Suite" by Frank Soos, but I found it not to be what I had expected. As far as books about rodmakers, Dick Spurr (Classic Angler Web-site) has written or published several very good books about classic rodmakers. Plus a few that I don't own. (yet) The archives of rodmakers would also have some good information and isfree. Don Burns from bob@downandacross.com Mon Nov 6 17:48:00 2000 eA6NlxG17591 Subject: Re: Setting Forms In a hex rod, divide them all. The height of each spline (strip) is half the the rod's diameter. When you bind the strips, your strip and the opposing strip will add up to the rod's outer measurements.Just be careful that you are looking at tapers and not form setting numbers (already halved).Good question. (Did my answer make sense?)Best regards,Bob At 05:26 PM 11/6/00 -0600, Rodney Brand wrote:Hello List (again)More questions. You all are greatly appreciated on this end for your patience and knowledge, I just hope you continue to bear with me. :)Here goes, In reference to the numbers given on a rod taper do you transfer those exact numbers to your final forms or do you divide them in half ? I think I read in Wayne's book that you should divide (most tapers) in half. If this is correct,how do you know what taper to divide and which one not to? Thanks So Much Rodney Brand from bob@downandacross.com Mon Nov 6 17:52:41 2000 eA6NqeG17783 Subject: Re: Books In addition to the others mentioned, I really like Dick Spurr's book on Wes Jordan and the Campbell Antique and Collectible Fishing Tackle book (or something like that.) There are a lot of other books out there that are no so well written. The Dickerson book is interesting, but I don't necessarily think it is as well written as the two mentioned above.Best regards,BOb At 06:29 PM 11/6/00 -0500, Canerods@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 11/6/00 2:33:25 PM Pacific Standard Time,dannyt@frisurf.no writes: I'm a lousy writer in norwegian, so this must be terribly:-) regardsdanny Danny, Your English is much better than any of the rodmakers Norwegian! (speaking for myself) Your casting style must be somewhat like my own - I never enjoyed learningona graphite rod. Try to find any other books written by Gierach, most will have a chapter ortwo about bamboo. His "Fishing Bamboo" is the most interesting in thatregard. There's also "Bamboo Fly rod Suite" by Frank Soos, but I found it not to bewhat I had expected. As far as books about rodmakers, Dick Spurr (Classic Angler Web-site) haswritten or published several very good books about classic rodmakers. Plus a few that I don't own. (yet) The archives of rodmakers would also have some good information and isfree. Don Burns from owen@davies.mv.com Mon Nov 6 18:26:17 2000 eA70QGG18752 Subject: Re: Books Among other interesting comments, Brian Creek recommended: anything by Ed Zern Thanks so much for mentioning him. "To Hell with Fishing," "How toTell Fish from Fishermen" and his other angling humor brightenedmy life when I was a kid, and decades later I can still remember thatthe MARGBM&LRBA was the Madison Avenue Rod, Gun, BloodyMary, and Labrador Retriever Benevolent Association. Just wishI could find the books now. Owen Davies from rmcelvain@uswest.net Mon Nov 6 19:06:02 2000 eA715xG19659 oemcomputer.uswest.net) (63.230.6.195) Subject: Grooved Planes I recently tried to order a Lie-Nielsen Block Plane with the .005 rod makers groove. They told me they have changed the groove to .003 deep. Does anyone on the list know why they changed the depth? Their E-mail to me stated they have done this by popular demand from the buyers, ".003 is the medium where they cover the needs of most". Does .003 work better, is this still an advantage over the flat sole?Thanks in advance. Bob McElvain from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Nov 6 19:26:12 2000 eA71QBG20129 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Cattanach's Handcrafting Bamboo Fly Rods Group Order I'm preparing my Christmas books order including Wayne's book. If youhaven't bought one yet, I'm doing an advance purchase for list members for$37.00 plus $5.00 shipping within the USA and $9.50 shipping worldwide.That's the lowest price on the internet. That's a 25% discount off of the$50 retail price. The deal is that you must place your order via my online store by Tuesdaynight so I can order them all Wednesday. I've set up a special link for thisone time offer as afterwards, I will only sell them for the regular price orthereabouts. The publisher has them in stock so allow about 7-14 days formeto get them and ship them to you. Here's the link... http://www.vfish.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=VS&Product_Code=HBFRBWC If you have trouble going to it, make sure you cut and paste the entire lineinto your browser. Or go to www.vfish.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv then gotoSEARCH and then input "HANDCRAFTING" and it will list Wayne's book. I'm ordering about 25 new flyfishing, collecting and fly tying titles socheck back with me in a few weeks for some great new books to be added tomysite. Cheers! Darrell Leewww.vfish.net from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Nov 6 19:26:18 2000 eA71QHG20141 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Books Danny, Both those books are out of print so they are hard to find or expensive tobuy at this time. They are good books however. A great book that is available is AJ Campbell's Classic and Antique FlyFishing Tackle and can be had on my website or thru Amazon, here's thelink... http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1558214003/anglerscollectib/103-0465369-7767818 Shipping will be on the expensive side as it is too large to fit in theGlobal Priority mail flat fee envelopes... There's a new book out that I just ordered by Paul Schullery that lookspromising called American Fly Fishing. I'll give a book report once I getthem in... perhaps some list members that already have a copy can give us areport? Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Books Danny, I would suggest you try to get a copies of the following 'history'books;1) Colorado Classic Cane by Dick Spur and Michael Sinclair2) Classic Bamboo Rodmakers-past and present also by Dick SpurI can personally recommend both the above books.....best regards.,Paul Danny Twang wrote: Due to low activity on the List, last couple of weeks, I have one for you. I've consider myself as an "history less" (terms?) newbie rodmaker.I started flyfishing 4 years ago, never was interested in fishing before,and rodmaking the next winter!! I had seen some cane rods before, and Ifound them beautiful, so I wanted to buy a one as my first rod. But theguyin the shop taught it was a bad idea, so out I went with a graphite 3piece9' #5/6 kit rod.The guy in the shop is a close friend of mine now, he own lots ofcanerods,old and new!!!I swoped the kit for a nice wading jacket with him:-) Out in the stream I tried to get the hang on the gear, but all I got wasthethrees. Out on a big grass field, I dry caste and managed to get 10m lineout, with lots of knots not only on the leader.....I fished the kit for acouple of weeks. The next time I was in the shop, they had a sweetChapmanmade 7' #3/4 Garrison taper for sale. The former owner never figured outhowto cast the rod. I bought it, and when I tried it with my new reel/line,I saw the light!! I could feel the rod load, and I could actually get moreline out with far less tangle and knots. The other day a borrowed a book of a friend, John Gierach, I've only readacouple of chapters, but I've found so many similarities in what I'veexperience my self. I'm starting to learn my history too! So do You Listmembers have other books to recommend? I'm a lousy writer in norwegian, so this must be terribly:-) regardsdanny from charlie.nightengale@worldnet.att.net Mon Nov 6 20:42:22 2000 eA72gLG21986 ;Tue, 7 Nov 2000 02:42:18 +0000 Subject: Re: Cattanach's Handcrafting Bamboo Fly Rods Group Order Wayne's book is available from alldirect.com for $30 plus $3.45 shipping.I've had good service from them. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Cattanach's Handcrafting Bamboo Fly Rods Group Order I'm preparing my Christmas books order including Wayne's book. If youhaven't bought one yet, I'm doing an advance purchase for list membersfor$37.00 plus $5.00 shipping within the USA and $9.50 shipping worldwide.That's the lowest price on the internet. That's a 25% discount off of the$50 retail price. The deal is that you must place your order via my online store by Tuesdaynight so I can order them all Wednesday. I've set up a special link forthisone time offer as afterwards, I will only sell them for the regular priceorthereabouts. The publisher has them in stock so allow about 7-14 days formeto get them and ship them to you. Here's the link... http://www.vfish.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=VS&Product_Code=HBFRBWC If you have trouble going to it, make sure you cut and paste the entirelineinto your browser. Or go to www.vfish.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv thengo toSEARCH and then input "HANDCRAFTING" and it will list Wayne's book. I'm ordering about 25 new flyfishing, collecting and fly tying titles socheck back with me in a few weeks for some great new books to be addedtomysite. Cheers! Darrell Leewww.vfish.net from bob@downandacross.com Mon Nov 6 21:37:30 2000 eA73bTG23314 Subject: Re: Setting Forms I really love the PHY Driggs. I think because of its parabolic nature, the dimensions are easily attainable by anyone. It is a great 4/5 weight rod. I really can't say enough about its merits.Bob At 06:48 PM 11/6/00 -0600, you wrote:Hey BobMade perfect sense to me. Got another question, This will be my first rodto build, what would your recomendation be for a first? ----- Original Message -----From: "bob maulucci" Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 5:45 PMSubject: Re: Setting Forms In a hex rod, divide them all. The height of each spline (strip) is halfthe the rod's diameter. When you bind the strips, your strip and theopposing strip will add up to the rod's outer measurements.Just be careful that you are looking at tapers and not form settingnumbers(already halved).Good question. (Did my answer make sense?)Best regards,Bob At 05:26 PM 11/6/00 -0600, Rodney Brand wrote:Hello List (again)More questions. You all are greatly appreciated on this end for yourpatience and knowledge, I just hope you continue to bear with me. :)Here goes, In reference to the numbers given on a rod taper do youtransfer those exact numbers to your final forms or do you dividetheminhalf ? I think I read in Wayne's book that you should divide (mosttapers) in half. If this is correct,how do you know what taper to divideand which one not to? Thanks So Much Rodney Brand from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Nov 6 21:50:14 2000 eA73oCG23773 Subject: Re: Setting Forms Except to say "try it". Tony At 10:34 PM 11/6/00 -0500, bob maulucci wrote:I really love the PHY Driggs. I think because of its parabolic nature, the dimensions are easily attainable by anyone. It is a great 4/5 weight rod. I really can't say enough about its merits.Bob At 06:48 PM 11/6/00 -0600, you wrote:Hey BobMade perfect sense to me. Got another question, This will be my firstrodto build, what would your recomendation be for a first? ----- Original Message -----From: "bob maulucci" Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 5:45 PMSubject: Re: Setting Forms In a hex rod, divide them all. The height of each spline (strip) is halfthe the rod's diameter. When you bind the strips, your strip and theopposing strip will add up to the rod's outer measurements.Just be careful that you are looking at tapers and not form settingnumbers(already halved).Good question. (Did my answer make sense?)Best regards,Bob At 05:26 PM 11/6/00 -0600, Rodney Brand wrote:Hello List (again)More questions. You all are greatly appreciated on this end for yourpatience and knowledge, I just hope you continue to bear with me. :)Here goes, In reference to the numbers given on a rod taper do youtransfer those exact numbers to your final forms or do you dividetheminhalf ? I think I read in Wayne's book that you should divide (mosttapers) in half. If this is correct,how do you know what taper todivideand which one not to? Thanks So Much Rodney Brand /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from jkcerise@rof.net Mon Nov 6 22:27:48 2000 eA74RlG24849 Subject: one on one anglers!/ C&R Wouldn't it decrease the stress on the fish if a "Catch Limit" wasset on each waterbody, that is, each fish brought to hand, whether killedor released, went towards a daily limit for that person on that stream? Ithink that some might slow down and enjoy their day more if they didn'tfeel a need to compete on fish caught, striving ever for the "100 fishday". -Absolutely. The problem here, of course, as Bob Maulucci mentioned, -is enforcement. Without watching each angler, a conservation agent -would have no way to tell how many fish had been brought to hand. -No agency is therefore going to put this kind of reg on the books. Now, folks, reconsider that one!!! If ALGOR gets the nod on Tues, ourgov't. may grow so large that we WILL have a 1:1 ratio of cops:robbers!!!Instead of 100,000 cops, we may get 100,000 WCO's!!! Watch out, the fedmay require us all to wear helmet cams to record how many fish we harass ina day. Turn in the video to the agent in charge of your particular streamat the end of the day for official viewing and if no violations are spottedin the first viewing, you may go home now!!! with humor in my heart, With a View from the Western Side of ThingsThe Cerise Kid\|/::==,#=#*o(_ /|\ America is a country, which produces citizens who will cross the ocean tofight for democracy but won't cross the street to vote. Say it again, Pogo,it still applies! from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Nov 6 23:51:27 2000 eA75pOG26338 Tue, 7 Nov 2000 13:51:06 +0800 Subject: Re: one on one anglers!/ C&R You've got to vote here in Aust otherwise they'll fine you! Now that may beconstrued in some weird double negative way of being an infringement onyour rights and I personaly wouldn't have it any other way but it has twovery good effects.1) The politicians don't have to keep coming up with gimmics and carrotsona string to get a block of voters who normaly wouldn't vote to do so and 2) You can always say with hand on heart the current policies aren't yourfault 'cause I didn't vote for them unless of course it is your fault. I'm not about to say we get any better politicians as a result of this butit does make for different dynamics and a lot less interesting electioncampaigns. Tony America is a country, which produces citizens who will cross the ocean tofight for democracy but won't cross the street to vote. Say it again, Pogo,it still applies! /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from ajthramer@hotmail.com Tue Nov 7 02:06:20 2000 eA786JG28109 Tue, 7 Nov 2000 00:06:17 -0800 Tue, 07 Nov 2000 08:06:16 GMT Subject: Books FILETIME=[9ACC6C40:01C04891] My favorite author is still Roderick Haig-Brown, perhaps because most of it is set in the West coast; it feels like it was written about the river out my back door. Another plus is that it was written when 'men were men' :) and all rods were properly made from cane and lines were properly made from silk. A tremendous disadvantage compared to today with all the techno- geek equipment, especially lines. To me they were always books about fishing as opposed to catching. All steelhead fishermen know that there is alot more of the former than the latter.A.J.Thramer_________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Nov 7 04:18:07 2000 eA7AI6G29407 Organization: ProLog Subject: Presidential Election Bush fishes cane, Gore fishes graphite! Vote! Marty from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Nov 7 07:15:19 2000 eA7DFIG00959 VL-MS-MR002.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Books I have to second A.J.'s recommendation. Roderick Haig-Brown had a clarityof thought and ease of prose that is without equal. He's remembered andloved by all for his angling literature, his wisdom as a judge, and as avalued academic. I recently re-read Fisherman's Summer and came across apage where he's reviewing his fishing journal to see how the fishing haschanged over the years. There's a line that reads something like: "1958 -didn't get a chance to fish at all that year." Whenever I'm a bit grumpyabout how rarely I can fish, I take solace in the fact that even a greatangler and writer such as Haig-Brown had years where family and work tookprecedence. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 3:06 AM Subject: Books My favorite author is still Roderick Haig-Brown, perhapsbecause most of itis set in the West coast; it feels like it was written aboutthe river outmy back door. Another plus is that it was written when 'menwere men' :) andall rods were properly made from cane and lines were properlymade fromsilk. A tremendous disadvantage compared to today with allthe techno-geekequipment, especially lines. To me they were always booksabout fishing asopposed to catching. All steelhead fishermen know that thereis alot more ofthe former than the latter.A.J.Thramer _________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile athttp://profiles.msn.com. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Nov 7 07:18:22 2000 eA7DILG01075 VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Subject: RE: Presidential Election Who is the more devoted environmentalist? THAT'S the big question thatshould be answered in the votes of anglers everywhere. 2 cents worth from North of the Border. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 5:16 AM Subject: Presidential Election Bush fishes cane, Gore fishes graphite! Vote! Marty from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Tue Nov 7 08:04:29 2000 eA7E4SG01792 fwd02.sul.t-online.com Tue, 7 Nov 2000 15:16:41 +0100 Subject: Re: Presidential Election Hi Richard, although I'm from Germany, I take quite some interest in thepresidential election. I just want to second your point - we all shouldpay some more attention to the candidates environmental devotion. Regards Ralf Richard Nantel schrieb: Who is the more devoted environmentalist? THAT'S the big question thatshould be answered in the votes of anglers everywhere. 2 cents worth from North of the Border. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 5:16 AM Subject: Presidential Election Bush fishes cane, Gore fishes graphite! Vote! Marty from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Nov 7 08:33:55 2000 eA7EXsG03053 GAA13008 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: RE: one on one anglers!/ C&R I suggest we do a group order of helmet cams for the group and beat therest of the nation to it Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 7:51 PM Subject: one on one anglers!/ C&R Wouldn't it decrease the stress on the fish if a "Catch Limit" wasset on each waterbody, that is, each fish brought to hand, whether killedor released, went towards a daily limit for that person on that stream? Ithink that some might slow down and enjoy their day more if they didn'tfeel a need to compete on fish caught, striving ever for the "100 fishday". -Absolutely. The problem here, of course, as Bob Maulucci mentioned, -is enforcement. Without watching each angler, a conservation agent -would have no way to tell how many fish had been brought to hand. -No agency is therefore going to put this kind of reg on the books. Now, folks, reconsider that one!!! If ALGOR gets the nod on Tues, ourgov't. may grow so large that we WILL have a 1:1 ratio of cops:robbers!!!Instead of 100,000 cops, we may get 100,000 WCO's!!! Watch out, the fedmay require us all to wear helmet cams to record how many fish we harassina day. Turn in the video to the agent in charge of your particular streamat the end of the day for official viewing and if no violations are spottedin the first viewing, you may go home now!!! with humor in my heart, With a View from the Western Side of ThingsThe Cerise Kid\|/::==,#=#*o(_ /|\ America is a country, which produces citizens who will cross the ocean tofight for democracy but won't cross the street to vote. Say it again, Pogo,it still applies! from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Nov 7 08:40:47 2000 eA7EekG03462 VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) "'Liste'" Subject: RE: Presidential Election Hi Ralf, I'm in Canada so I too am just watching this election from the standpointof a bystander. It's too bad, though, that what I just wrote will be veryunpopular among American voters. Environmentalism is almost a dirty wordinthe U.S. now. Richard -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 8:59 AM Subject: Re: Presidential Election Hi Richard, although I'm from Germany, I take quite some interest in thepresidential election. I just want to second your point - weall shouldpay some more attention to the candidates environmental devotion. Regards Ralf Richard Nantel schrieb: Who is the more devoted environmentalist? THAT'S the bigquestion thatshould be answered in the votes of anglers everywhere. 2 cents worth from North of the Border. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 5:16 AM Subject: Presidential Election Bush fishes cane, Gore fishes graphite! Vote! Marty from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 7 09:16:15 2000 eA7FGDG04879 Subject: RE: Presidential Election "'Liste'" The day will come people wont believe we had a chance and blew it. Tony At 09:39 AM 11/7/00 -0500, Richard Nantel wrote:Hi Ralf, I'm in Canada so I too am just watching this election from the standpointof a bystander. It's too bad, though, that what I just wrote will be veryunpopular among American voters. Environmentalism is almost a dirty wordinthe U.S. now. Richard /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Tue Nov 7 09:21:38 2000 eA7FLbG05167 fwd04.sul.t-online.com Tue, 7 Nov 2000 16:33:42 +0100 Subject: Re: Presidential Election Hi Richard, where are you from in Canada? Two years ago I spent my summer vacationin the area of Prince George, B.C. I sure envy you for your beautifulcountry and the numerous opportunities for flyfishing. I hope our U.S.American fellows won't crucify us for stressing the point ofenvironmentalism (complicated word!), but over here in Europe,especially in Germany, it's a very important thing (you know we've gotthe "Green Party" in our government).Let's hope for our U.S. Americanfellow fishermen, that the coming U.S. government / President will takegood care of their beautiful country, environmentally (???) speaking. Have a good one Ralf Richard Nantel schrieb: Hi Ralf, I'm in Canada so I too am just watching this election from the standpointof a bystander. It's too bad, though, that what I just wrote will be veryunpopular among American voters. Environmentalism is almost a dirty wordinthe U.S. now. Richard -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 8:59 AM Subject: Re: Presidential Election Hi Richard, although I'm from Germany, I take quite some interest in thepresidential election. I just want to second your point - weall shouldpay some more attention to the candidates environmental devotion. Regards Ralf Richard Nantel schrieb: Who is the more devoted environmentalist? THAT'S the bigquestion thatshould be answered in the votes of anglers everywhere. 2 cents worth from North of the Border. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 5:16 AM Subject: Presidential Election Bush fishes cane, Gore fishes graphite! Vote! Marty from rcolo@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 7 09:58:12 2000 eA7Fw7G07019 Subject: Re: Books Dear Danny,I envy your situation at this point in time. Someone discribed flyfishingas a journey up a ladder. Once you climb to the next rung you can't goback. I have found this to be very true through my 40 years on the water.Therefore, I caution you to take your time and "smell the roses". Rememberthat in flyfishing the journey is more importantthan the destination, Try www.flyanglersonline.com. Go to bamboo and youwill find a couple of days worth of reading.Also remember that flyfishing is a more an act of the " heart" than of the"head". Too many of today's flyfishing books or cerebral in nature. That'swhy John is so refreshing. If you would like the names of some books pleaselet me know. Rich Colo -----Original Message----- Subject: Books Due to low activity on the List, last couple of weeks, I have one for you. I've consider myself as an "history less" (terms?) newbie rodmaker.I started flyfishing 4 years ago, never was interested in fishing before,and rodmaking the next winter!! I had seen some cane rods before, and Ifound them beautiful, so I wanted to buy a one as my first rod. But the guyin the shop taught it was a bad idea, so out I went with a graphite 3 piece9' #5/6 kit rod.The guy in the shop is a close friend of mine now, he own lots of canerods,old and new!!!I swoped the kit for a nice wading jacket with him:-) Out in the stream I tried to get the hang on the gear, but all I got wasthethrees. Out on a big grass field, I dry caste and managed to get 10m lineout, with lots of knots not only on the leader.....I fished the kit for acouple of weeks. The next time I was in the shop, they had a sweetChapmanmade 7' #3/4 Garrison taper for sale. The former owner never figured outhowto cast the rod. I bought it, and when I tried it with my new reel/line,I saw the light!! I could feel the rod load, and I could actually get moreline out with far less tangle and knots. The other day a borrowed a book of a friend, John Gierach, I've only read acouple of chapters, but I've found so many similarities in what I'veexperience my self. I'm starting to learn my history too! So do You Listmembers have other books to recommend? I'm a lousy writer in norwegian, so this must be terribly:-) regardsdanny from ttalsma@macatawa.org Tue Nov 7 10:31:42 2000 eA7GVfG08785 Subject: [Fwd: Presidential Election] This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 32E8D14854E50A39CD178D00 Oops, I meant to send this to the list, not just Richard. --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm --------------32E8D14854E50A39CD178D00 Subject: Re: Presidential Election I don't think it's a matter of being a devoted environmentalist. It's aquestion of doing what is best with the resources that God has given us inthis world. We can both protect the environment AND use the resourcesthat we've been blessed with in the US. I think the difference is that one major candidate (read, one that canactually win) is an environmental extremist and one is not. Richard Nantel wrote: Who is the more devoted environmentalist? THAT'S the big question thatshould be answered in the votes of anglers everywhere. 2 cents worth from North of the Border. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 5:16 AM Subject: Presidential Election Bush fishes cane, Gore fishes graphite! Vote! Marty --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm --------------32E8D14854E50A39CD178D00-- from piscator@macatawa.org Tue Nov 7 10:40:50 2000 eA7GenG09228 Subject: Re: Presidential Election] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C048AF.EE68DBE0 I sent this last night to Mr. Cerise and meant to send it to the list =too. Like hell I'm not! Let's see. A republican pres. and a republican congress, many of whom =we haven't purged since they rode into town with Newt and the contract =on America. (Weren't they all for term limits back then?) A guy whose =dad had Danny Quaile as a veep start the council on competitiveness to =end-run environmental regs. A guy whose dad was on the same cabinet as =James Watt. A guy who wants to drill and pump oil from the Arctic Nat'l = Hell, catch and release will be the least of our worries. We'll have to =go back to worryin' about findin' water clean enough for the fish to =live in. We'll all be gettin' what Clinton reserved for the interns! I am really Sorry! But myopia needs corrective action. Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C048AF.EE68DBE0 I sent this last nightto = and meant to send it to the list too. gonna = = congress, many of whom we haven't purged since they rode into town with = = We'll have to go back to worryin' about findin' water clean enough for = ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C048AF.EE68DBE0-- from RGraves@wc.stephens.edu Tue Nov 7 10:47:58 2000 eA7GlvG09590 Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: Is theis politics@wugate.wustl.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0141_01C048A8.3B3664E0 We could all comment on who we think the best choice is, but let's just =stick to the topic of bamboo rods and fly fishing....please... ------=_NextPart_000_0141_01C048A8.3B3664E0 We could all comment on who we think = fishing....please... ------=_NextPart_000_0141_01C048A8.3B3664E0-- from kbuch@mail.stlnet.com Tue Nov 7 12:15:04 2000 eA7IF3G12640 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Presidential Election] I don't think it's a matter of being a devoted environmentalist. It's a question of doing what is best with the resources that God has given usinthis world. We can both protect the environment AND use the resourcesthat we've been blessed with in the US. I think the difference is that one major candidate (read, one that canactually win) is an environmental extremist and one is not. Richard, Todd's comments are probably the mainstream belief about the resourcesavailable. Few if any, would intentionally damage what most want toprotect. Extreme environmental policy has a way of alienating a largeportion of society, because it has far reaching effects on people'sexisting ways of life. I for one believe that a balance of resourcemanagement and sound environmental policy can be achieved.Unfortunately, environmental issues are all too often driven byextremists and therefore seen as threatening. Regards, Kevin BuchananSt. Louis, MO from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Tue Nov 7 12:21:26 2000 eA7ILOG12884 Subject: RE: [Fwd: Presidential Election] I can think of nothing more likely to have a disruptive and divisive impacton this (or any) listserv than a discussion of politics, except for maybereligion. Not to mention that we really don't need to be filling thearchives with a bunch of political opinions. Let's keep this to bamboorodmaking, with an occasional diversion into closely related fishing topics.PLEASE. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 1:03 PM Cc: Rodmakers ListSubject: Re: [Fwd: Presidential Election] I don't think it's a matter of being a devoted environmentalist. It's a question of doing what is best with the resources that God has given usinthis world. We can both protect the environment AND use the resourcesthat we've been blessed with in the US. I think the difference is that one major candidate (read, one that canactually win) is an environmental extremist and one is not. Richard, Todd's comments are probably the mainstream belief about the resourcesavailable. Few if any, would intentionally damage what most want toprotect. Extreme environmental policy has a way of alienating a largeportion of society, because it has far reaching effects on people'sexisting ways of life. I for one believe that a balance of resourcemanagement and sound environmental policy can be achieved.Unfortunately, environmental issues are all too often driven byextremists and therefore seen as threatening. Regards, Kevin BuchananSt. Louis, MO from owen@davies.mv.com Tue Nov 7 12:33:46 2000 eA7IXjG13235 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Presidential Election] Kevin M. Buchanan said: I don't think it's a matter of being a devoted environmentalist. It's a question of doing what is best with the resources that God has given us... I think the difference is that one major candidate (read, one that canactually win) is an environmental extremist and one is not. Yeah. Too bad the extremist is on the side of rape and pillage. (Sorry. Don't mean to be grumpy, but I really need the election to beover!) Could we maybe go back to rod making? My somewhat useless contribution: I would absolutely have loved to learnbamboo rod building when I was a kid. Tied flies from the time I wassix. Assembled -- you can't really say "built" -- a couple of f!be#g!*$srods, but soon found that it was a whole lot more expensive than buildingplastic model airplanes and didn't think it involved a lot more skill orevenoffered that much more of a payoff. (Maybe if I'd been getting my blanks from Russ Peak instead of Herters...) Several decades later, I've justlearned that I grew up within five or six miles of Pinky Gillum. One fromthe if-only-I'd- known department! Owen Davies from dhaftel@att.com Tue Nov 7 12:51:46 2000 eA7IpjG13907 NAA08453 (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2652.35) Subject: Preserving filler wood All,, A while back there was a thread that involved using wax to preserve woodforaging. I have a chunk of ash that I'd like to make reelseat fillers out ofsome day and I'd like to keep it from cracking too badly. Is there anyspecific wax that needs to be used or can I get away with beeswax from acraft store? Thanks, Dennis from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Nov 7 13:01:13 2000 eA7J1DG14248 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Presidential Election] Rodmakers List This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C048A3.BA13C1E0 I saw a tv clip last night with Bush fishing... He was fishing for Texasbass with a Bass Pro type of setup... I couldn't tell what type of rod hewas using, but it didn't look like cane to me... Darrell Lee-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 8:43 AM Subject: Re: Presidential Election] I sent this last night to Mr. Cerise and meant to send it to the list too. Nope.I'm not gonna hitchya.I'm not gonna hitchya. Like hell I'm not! Let's see. A republican pres. and a republican congress, many of whom wehaven't purged since they rode into town with Newt and the contract onAmerica. (Weren't they all for term limits back then?) A guy whose dad hadDanny Quaile as a veep start the council on competitiveness to end- runenvironmental regs. A guy whose dad was on the same cabinet as JamesWatt.A guy who wants to drill and pump oil from the Arctic Nat'l Wildlife refuge Hell, catch and release will be the least of our worries. We'll have togo back to worryin' about findin' water clean enough for the fish to livein. We'll all be gettin' what Clinton reserved for the interns! I am really Sorry! But myopia needs corrective action. Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C048A3.BA13C1E0 a tv clip last night with Bush fishing... He was fishing for Texas bass = Bass Pro type of setup... I couldn't tell what type of rod he was using, = didn't look like cane to me... Darrell Lee CreekSent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 8:43 ttalsma@macatawa.org; Rodmakers ListSubject: Re: = Election]I sent this last night= Cerise and meant to send it to the list too. = republican congress, many of whom we haven't purged since they rode = ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C048A3.BA13C1E0-- from owen@davies.mv.com Tue Nov 7 13:40:04 2000 eA7Je3G15848 Subject: Re: Preserving filler wood Dennis Haftel asked: A while back there was a thread that involved using wax to preserve woodforaging. I have a chunk of ash that I'd like to make reelseat fillers outofsome day and I'd like to keep it from cracking too badly. Is there anyspecific wax that needs to be used or can I get away with beeswax from acraft store? If you have a Woodcraft Supply nearby, they'll have a wax emulsion intended Not tooexpensive, as I recall, but you can do about as well just slapping a fewcoatsof latex paint on each end. Beeswax should work also, but my impression --definitely not to be trusted! -- is that it doesn't work as well as eitherof theother alternatives. Basically, though, just go with whatever you can getdonequickest. Ash isn't as quick to go as some woods, but the faster you get itprotected the better your chances of avoiding cracks. Don't worry about the side grain; the end grain counts most. Owen Davies from anglport@con2.com Tue Nov 7 13:46:25 2000 eA7JkOG16189 Subject: Re: Is theis politics@wugate.wustl.edu At 10:48 AM 11/07/2000 -0600, Ron Graves wrote:We could all comment on who we think the best choice is, but let's juststick to the topic of bamboo rods and fly fishing....please... HEAR-HEAR!!!!! Most politics devolves into arguing points where neither side credits theother with any intelligence at all and then into acrimony. I stronglysuggest we'll be a much happier group tomorrow if we can just shut uptoday! I don't know who it was that said "It is possible for men of goodwill to disagree", but he wasn't talking about politics I fear..... I leave you with two thoughts: Never argue with a fool; people may not know the difference. and Never wrestle with a pig -- it gets you all muddy and the pig enjoys it. Art from jczimny@dol.net Tue Nov 7 14:05:26 2000 eA7K5PG17150 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: Preserving filler wood White glue on the end grain will work as well. The idea is to get the wood togive up its moisture evenly. If the end grain is left uncoated, moisture willexpire faster from the end grain than from the middle of the piece. Thusstresses are set up that rather quickly developes checking in the piece.John Z "Haftel, Dennis J, CSCIO" wrote: All,, A while back there was a thread that involved using wax to preserve woodforaging. I have a chunk of ash that I'd like to make reelseat fillers out ofsome day and I'd like to keep it from cracking too badly. Is there anyspecific wax that needs to be used or can I get away with beeswax from acraft store? Thanks, Dennis from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Tue Nov 7 14:09:00 2000 eA7K8xG17378 Subject: Re: Presidential Election] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C04995.E9E7A100 I really wanted to stay out of this discussion because I don't believe itbelongs on this listserve, but this letter caused me to write.I don't mind intelligent discourse about politics, that is what makes ourgreat democracy work. Honest, well intentioned people can disagree onsubjects in a civil manner. That is healthy for our country. When itdegrades to ad hominum arguments and name calling, then I have had enough.Not everyone agrees with your point of view, Mr. Creek. Not everyonebelieves that your way is the best way of approaching the challenges thatconfront our nation today. So, please let them have their opinions withoutpersonal, nasty attacks.Let us go back to bamboo. ----- Original Message -----From: Brian Creek Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 11:43 AMSubject: Re: Presidential Election] I sent this last night to Mr. Cerise and meant to send it to the list too. Nope.I'm not gonna hitchya.I'm not gonna hitchya. Like hell I'm not! Let's see. A republican pres. and a republican congress, many of whom wehaven't purged since they rode into town with Newt and the contract onAmerica. (Weren't they all for term limits back then?) A guy whose dad hadDanny Quaile as a veep start the council on competitiveness to end- runenvironmental regs. A guy whose dad was on the same cabinet as JamesWatt.A guy who wants to drill and pump oil from the Arctic Nat'l Wildlife refuge Hell, catch and release will be the least of our worries. We'll have togo back to worryin' about findin' water clean enough for the fish to livein. We'll all be gettin' what Clinton reserved for the interns! I am really Sorry! But myopia needs corrective action. Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C04995.E9E7A100 I really wanted to stay out of this discussion = write.I don't mind intelligent discourse about politics, = opinions without personal, nasty attacks. Let us go back to bamboo. ----- Original Message ----- Creek Sent: Tuesday, November 07, = AMSubject: Re: Presidential =Election] I sent this last night= Cerise and meant to send it to the list too. = republican congress, many of whom we haven't purged since they rode = ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C04995.E9E7A100-- from mschaffer@mindspring.com Tue Nov 7 14:30:45 2000 eA7KUiG18308 Subject: Coating end grain-thanks This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C048CF.E05E9920 Guys,Just a quick thanks for the various ideas about coating end grain on =wood. I recently bought a Lacewood 2 x 4 and believe me it wasn't =cheap! But with a number of other things that have occured recently, I =forgot to seal the ends--think I'll do that tonight!Mike (aka Doc) ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C048CF.E05E9920 Guys,Just a quick thanks for the various = tonight!Mike (aka =Doc) ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C048CF.E05E9920-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Nov 7 14:39:00 2000 eA7KcxG18737 12:38:54 PST Subject: Re: Is theis politics@wugate.wustl.edu I agree with you Art but it is election day and by thetime everyone gets their "2 cents in" it will be over.i think we're going to have to put up with it becausethere are some that will insist on having the lastword. let's go get a beer! timothy --- Art Port wrote:At 10:48 AM 11/07/2000 -0600, Ron Graves wrote:We could all comment on who we think the best choice is, but let's juststick to the topic of bamboo rods and fly fishing....please... HEAR-HEAR!!!!! Most politics devolves into arguing points whereneither side credits theother with any intelligence at all and then intoacrimony. I stronglysuggest we'll be a much happier group tomorrow if wecan just shut uptoday! I don't know who it was that said "It ispossible for men of goodwill to disagree", but he wasn't talking aboutpolitics I fear..... I leave you with two thoughts: Never argue with a fool; people may not know thedifference. and Never wrestle with a pig -- it gets you all muddyand the pig enjoys it. Art ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.http://shopping.yahoo.com/ from mrmac@tcimet.net Tue Nov 7 15:04:07 2000 eA7L46G20089 MAA11364; Subject: Re: Is theis politics@wugate.wustl.edu I'll vote for *that*! Tony buyin? mac timothy troester wrote: I agree with you Art but it is election day and by thetime everyone gets their "2 cents in" it will be over.i think we're going to have to put up with it becausethere are some that will insist on having the lastword. let's go get a beer! timothy --- Art Port wrote:At 10:48 AM 11/07/2000 -0600, Ron Graves wrote:We could all comment on who we think the bestchoice is, but let's juststick to the topic of bamboo rods and flyfishing....please... HEAR-HEAR!!!!! Most politics devolves into arguing points whereneither side credits theother with any intelligence at all and then intoacrimony. I stronglysuggest we'll be a much happier group tomorrow if wecan just shut uptoday! I don't know who it was that said "It ispossible for men of goodwill to disagree", but he wasn't talking aboutpolitics I fear..... I leave you with two thoughts: Never argue with a fool; people may not know thedifference. and Never wrestle with a pig -- it gets you all muddyand the pig enjoys it. Art ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.http://shopping.yahoo.com/ from Troy.Miller@bakeroiltools.com Tue Nov 7 15:05:15 2000 eA7L5EG20226 [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) 15:01:41 2000 -0600 (5.5.2448.0) piscator@macatawa.orgSubject: RE: Presidential Election] Brian, et al -- As you can tell by my address, I am one of those "baaaad" people. You know,one of those oilfield workers. I have to confess to being a person who hasno concern for the environment whatsoever, just so I can line my pocketswith gold. The word ethical isn't in my vocabulary. Now I don't know what Jr's daddy did while he was in the white house, butthat is not a subject of debate. The statements that you make about ANWRare absolutley inaccurate, and I feel the need to refute them with accurateinformation. First, the commecial quantity of hydrocarbons (oil and natural gas) that isestimated to be present in the ANWR area is much larger than "six monthstoa year's worth". I cannot provide numbers (bound to secrecy), but as anengineer, I was out collecting technical data on one of the early wellsdrilled to define the extent of this reservoir. I can tell you that thesize is SUBSTANTIAL. Maybe fuel the world for a year or two. Or more. Second, you need to physically get yourself on an airplane, fly to the northslope, then take a chopper or a rollagon out to the vicinity of Kaktovik,and sit there a few hours and just melt into the subtle beauty of the area.You will find that there is a whole lot of nothin' there. It is purely anarctic desert. The "save nature" organizations send out these prettybrochures of some caribou herd that appears to be closer to Mulchatna thanANWR, but it serves their purpose. The dollars pour in to save thisbeautiful sanctuary. Bottom line is, the area is temporary home tomigrating herds that have been essentially unaffected by the oilfieldactivities in the Prudhoe Bay field. Lessons learned over the past 25 yearsat Prudhoe show that reserves of oil and gas may clearly be produced andutilized without significant risk to this fragile arctic ecosystem. It is our challenge as overachieving neanderthals to make careful use of theresources around us, and realize that there is no free lunch. Zero impactcamping is a myth. The dynamics of living, of being, create in irreversibleimpact on the planet. You can't leave this world exactly as you found it,sorry to break the news to you. To assure you that my first paragraph is utter sarcasm, I could tell youabout all the stream cleanups, habitat projects, and youth conservationeducation programs that I have been involved in. But I won't. That is notthe point. As Americans, we want our cake and everyone else's. I love theenvironment, and want to see no harm come to it. Indeed, I am a bunnyhugger, but also a realist. Let he who walked or rode a bicycle to workthis morning cast the next stone..... TAM ---------- Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 10:43 AM Subject: Re: Presidential Election] I sent this last night to Mr. Cerise and meant to send it to the list too. Nope. I'm not gonna hitchya. I'm not gonna hitchya. Like hell I'm not! Let's see. A republican pres. and a republican congress, many of whom wehaven't purged since they rode into town with Newt and the contract onAmerica. (Weren't they all for term limits back then?) A guy whose dadhad Danny Quaile as a veep start the council on competitiveness to end- runenvironmental regs. A guy whose dad was on the same cabinet as JamesWatt. A guy who wants to drill and pump oil from the Arctic Nat'lWildlife refuge for 6 mos to a year's worth of oil. Hell, catch and release will be the least of our worries. We'll have togo back to worryin' about findin' water clean enough for the fish to livein. We'll all be gettin' what Clinton reserved for the interns! I am really Sorry! But myopia needs corrective action. Brian from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Nov 7 15:26:15 2000 eA7LQEG21127 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: [Fwd: Presidential Election] Catholics fish cane, Protestants fish graphite, Baptists use dynamite.Marty I can think of nothing more likely to have a disruptive and divisive impacton this (or any) listserv than a discussion of politics, except for maybereligion. Not to mention that we really don't need to be filling thearchives with a bunch of political opinions. Let's keep this to bamboorodmaking, with an occasional diversion into closely related fishing topics.PLEASE. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 1:03 PM Cc: Rodmakers ListSubject: Re: [Fwd: Presidential Election] I don't think it's a matter of being a devoted environmentalist. It's a question of doing what is best with the resources that God has given usinthis world. We can both protect the environment AND use the resourcesthat we've been blessed with in the US. I think the difference is that one major candidate (read, one that canactually win) is an environmental extremist and one is not. Richard, Todd's comments are probably the mainstream belief about theresourcesavailable. Few if any, would intentionally damage what most want toprotect. Extreme environmental policy has a way of alienating a largeportion of society, because it has far reaching effects on people'sexisting ways of life. I for one believe that a balance of resourcemanagement and sound environmental policy can be achieved.Unfortunately, environmental issues are all too often driven byextremists and therefore seen as threatening. Regards, Kevin BuchananSt. Louis, MO from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Nov 7 16:32:01 2000 eA7MW1G23221 Subject: Re: Preserving filler wood Dennis,I buy the wax at the grocery store. They carry it forcanning. I melt it with a propane torch and let it cover the endgrain of the wood. This will help keep the wood from cracking Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Nov 7 16:58:10 2000 eA7Mw9G24492 Organization: ProLog Subject: Re: [Fwd: Presidential Election] marty wrote: Catholics fish cane, Protestants fish graphite, Baptists use dynamite.Marty Ooooh, that hurts Marty. Did you remember that by calling I'm a Baptistminister? I've never used dynamite. Rotenone a few times, and gill netsonce ortwice, but never dynamite. :--)) Naah, I know this is just in fun, and thank goodness it'll mostly be over withbymidnight. HarryAmen to that, Reverend. Marty--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 7 17:27:52 2000 eA7NRnG25551 Wed, 8 Nov 2000 07:27:47 +0800 Wed, 8 Nov 2000 07:29:45 +0800 Subject: Re: Is theis politics@wugate.wustl.edu "rod 'akers" Hic..hic ...hic....where were you all??? hic...hic I'll vote for *that*! Tony buyin? mac timothy troester wrote: I agree with you Art but it is election day and by thetime everyone gets their "2 cents in" it will be over.i think we're going to have to put up with it becausethere are some that will insist on having the lastword. let's go get a beer! timothy --- Art Port wrote:At 10:48 AM 11/07/2000 -0600, Ron Graves wrote:We could all comment on who we think the bestchoice is, but let's juststick to the topic of bamboo rods and flyfishing....please... HEAR-HEAR!!!!! Most politics devolves into arguing points whereneither side credits theother with any intelligence at all and then intoacrimony. I stronglysuggest we'll be a much happier group tomorrow if wecan just shut uptoday! I don't know who it was that said "It ispossible for men of goodwill to disagree", but he wasn't talking aboutpolitics I fear..... I leave you with two thoughts: Never argue with a fool; people may not know thedifference. and Never wrestle with a pig -- it gets you all muddyand the pig enjoys it. Art ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.http://shopping.yahoo.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Nov 7 17:34:10 2000 eA7NY8G25821 Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 08 Nov 2000 07:32:27 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) "rod 'akers" Subject: RE: Is theis politics@wugate.wustl.edu God!! Tony must be sobering up!! He never hiccups. Don't worry mate, I'llbe right over with a few medicinal ales. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Is theis politics@wugate.wustl.edu Hic..hic ...hic....where were you all??? hic...hic I'll vote for *that*! Tony buyin? mac timothy troester wrote: I agree with you Art but it is election day and by thetime everyone gets their "2 cents in" it will be over.i think we're going to have to put up with it becausethere are some that will insist on having the lastword. let's go get a beer! timothy --- Art Port wrote:At 10:48 AM 11/07/2000 -0600, Ron Graves wrote:We could all comment on who we think the bestchoice is, but let's juststick to the topic of bamboo rods and flyfishing....please... HEAR-HEAR!!!!! Most politics devolves into arguing points whereneither side credits theother with any intelligence at all and then intoacrimony. I stronglysuggest we'll be a much happier group tomorrow if wecan just shut uptoday! I don't know who it was that said "It ispossible for men of goodwill to disagree", but he wasn't talking aboutpolitics I fear..... I leave you with two thoughts: Never argue with a fool; people may not know thedifference. and Never wrestle with a pig -- it gets you all muddyand the pig enjoys it. Art ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.http://shopping.yahoo.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 7 18:03:18 2000 eA803EG26557 Wed, 8 Nov 2000 08:03:15 +0800 Wed, 8 Nov 2000 08:05:16 +0800 Subject: Let that be a lesson to you Mike,Our fearless leader prime minister is sitting on the lawn of Parlamenthouse and a crowd has circled him. His intention is to douse himself withpetrol and self immolate if the Senate doesn't approve the Telstra bill butthey wont budge so it's looking grim for him.The Treasurer is exorting the crowd to give all they can for the man who'smade Australia all it is today.A newsman asks "How much have you got so far?" The Treasurer "So far,about300 liters". Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 7 18:14:16 2000 eA80EDG26842 Wed, 8 Nov 2000 08:14:14 +0800 Wed, 8 Nov 2000 08:16:15 +0800 Subject: Re: Let that be a lesson to you Sorry out there. This wasn't intended for the list. Tony At 08:02 AM 11/8/00 +0800, Tony Young wrote:Mike,Our fearless leader prime minister is sitting on the lawn of Parlamenthouse and a crowd has circled him. His intention is to douse himself with /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from b2g@jps.net Tue Nov 7 21:55:55 2000 eA83tsG00298 Subject: Silk Fly Lines Organization: Badges 2 Go This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C048F9.F43BF300 Hello all, I have been wondering lately about silk fly lines and after reading =several articles about them I wanted to post a few questions I have =about them. Has anyone made there own silk fly line? If so where do I =get some more information or instruction on making your own silk fly =lines. How does the made silk line compare with a manufactured silk =line? Lastly what is the cost savings between making your own silk fly =line to purchasing one? Most of those ending question are assuming that =one could make there own silk fly line. Any comments or answers would =be helpful. Thanks Robert H. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C048F9.F43BF300 Hello all, I have been wondering lately about silk = and after reading several articles about them I wanted to post a few = where do I get some more information or instruction on making your own = helpful. Thanks RobertH. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C048F9.F43BF300-- from owen@davies.mv.com Tue Nov 7 23:00:03 2000 eA8502G01258 Subject: Re: Silk Fly Lines Robert Holder asked some interesting questions about silk lines.I have one more: One of the classic synthetic fibers -- rayon? --is an artificial version of silk. Does anyone have any reason whyit can't be used for "silk" fly lines? Seems to me it should workjust as well, but at a more competitive price. A mite short ontradition-appeal, of course. Owen Davies from channer1@rmi.net Tue Nov 7 23:58:26 2000 eA85wPG02269 Subject: Re: Silk Fly Lines Robert;There was quite a bit of discussion a while back about the making ofsilk lines, the gist of it was that it was pretty darn complicated andnot the kind of thing one could do in ones basement. search the archivesand you will find the thread on it.John Robert Holder wrote: Hello all, I have been wondering lately about silk fly lines and after readingseveral articles about them I wanted to post a few questions I haveabout them. Has anyone made there own silk fly line? If so where doI get some more information or instruction on making your own silk flylines. How does the made silk line compare with a manufactured silkline? Lastly what is the cost savings between making your own silkfly line to purchasing one? Most of those ending question areassuming that one could make there own silk fly line. Any comments oranswers would be helpful. Thanks Robert H. from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Nov 8 00:06:36 2000 (may be forged)) eA866ZG02529 Subject: RE: Presidential Election] Troy - Thanks for the "information," it's nice to know that there is actually a lotof nothing on the Alaskan north slope. How about if we let this list returnto being a discussion about bamboo rods and closely related things. Barry -----Original Message-----From: Miller, Troy A. Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 3:04 PM Subject: RE: Presidential Election] Brian, et al -- As you can tell by my address, I am one of those "baaaad"people. You know,one of those oilfield workers. I have to confess to being aperson who hasno concern for the environment whatsoever, just so I canline my pocketswith gold. The word ethical isn't in my vocabulary. Now I don't know what Jr's daddy did while he was in thewhite house, butthat is not a subject of debate. The statements that youmake about ANWRare absolutley inaccurate, and I feel the need to refutethem with accurateinformation. First, the commecial quantity of hydrocarbons (oil andnatural gas) that isestimated to be present in the ANWR area is much larger than"six months toa year's worth". I cannot provide numbers (bound tosecrecy), but as anengineer, I was out collecting technical data on one of theearly wellsdrilled to define the extent of this reservoir. I can tellyou that thesize is SUBSTANTIAL. Maybe fuel the world for a year ortwo. Or more. Second, you need to physically get yourself on an airplane,fly to the northslope, then take a chopper or a rollagon out to the vicinityof Kaktovik,and sit there a few hours and just melt into the subtlebeauty of the area.You will find that there is a whole lot of nothin' there.It is purely anarctic desert. The "save nature" organizations send outthese prettybrochures of some caribou herd that appears to be closer toMulchatna thanANWR, but it serves their purpose. The dollars pour in tosave thisbeautiful sanctuary. Bottom line is, the area is temporaryhome tomigrating herds that have been essentially unaffected by theoilfieldactivities in the Prudhoe Bay field. Lessons learned overthe past 25 yearsat Prudhoe show that reserves of oil and gas may clearly beproduced andutilized without significant risk to this fragile arcticecosystem. It is our challenge as overachieving neanderthals to makecareful use of theresources around us, and realize that there is no freelunch. Zero impactcamping is a myth. The dynamics of living, of being, createin irreversibleimpact on the planet. You can't leave this world exactly asyou found it,sorry to break the news to you. To assure you that my first paragraph is utter sarcasm, Icould tell youabout all the stream cleanups, habitat projects, and youthconservationeducation programs that I have been involved in. But Iwon't. That is notthe point. As Americans, we want our cake and everyoneelse's. I love theenvironment, and want to see no harm come to it. Indeed, Iam a bunnyhugger, but also a realist. Let he who walked or rode abicycle to workthis morning cast the next stone..... TAM ---------- Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 10:43 AM Subject: Re: Presidential Election] I sent this last night to Mr. Cerise and meant to send itto the list too. Nope. I'm not gonna hitchya. I'm not gonna hitchya. Like hell I'm not! Let's see. A republican pres. and a republican congress,many of whom wehaven't purged since they rode into town with Newt and thecontract onAmerica. (Weren't they all for term limits back then?) Aguy whose dadhad Danny Quaile as a veep start the council oncompetitiveness to end- runenvironmental regs. A guy whose dad was on the samecabinet as JamesWatt. A guy who wants to drill and pump oil from theArctic Nat'lWildlife refuge for 6 mos to a year's worth of oil. Hell, catch and release will be the least of our worries.We'll have togo back to worryin' about findin' water clean enough forthe fish to livein. We'll all be gettin' what Clinton reserved for theinterns! I am really Sorry! But myopia needs corrective action. Brian from timklein@uswest.net Wed Nov 8 01:10:52 2000 eA87ApG03377 (63.225.240.157) Subject: Re: Presidential Election This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01C04917.EA521FE0 And this applies to rodmaking how? (I'll just be glad when the damn thing's over) ---Tim Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 9:43 AMSubject: Re: Presidential Election] I sent this last night to Mr. Cerise and meant to send it to the list =too. Like hell I'm not! Let's see. A republican pres. and a republican congress, many of whom =we haven't purged since they rode into town with Newt and the contract =on America. (Weren't they all for term limits back then?) A guy whose =dad had Danny Quaile as a veep start the council on competitiveness to =end-run environmental regs. A guy whose dad was on the same cabinet as =James Watt. A guy who wants to drill and pump oil from the Arctic Nat'l = Hell, catch and release will be the least of our worries. We'll have =to go back to worryin' about findin' water clean enough for the fish to =live in. We'll all be gettin' what Clinton reserved for the interns! I am really Sorry! But myopia needs corrective action. Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01C04917.EA521FE0 And this applies to rodmaking how? (I'll just be glad when the damn thing's =over) ---Tim ----- Original Message ----- Creek Sent: Tuesday, November 07, = AMSubject: Re: Presidential =Election] I sent this last night= Cerise and meant to send it to the list too. = republican congress, many of whom we haven't purged since they rode = ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01C04917.EA521FE0-- from ajthramer@hotmail.com Wed Nov 8 02:52:41 2000 eA88qeG04260 Wed, 8 Nov 2000 00:52:34 -0800 Wed, 08 Nov 2000 08:52:34 GMT Subject: Re: [Fwd: Presidential Election] FILETIME=[3CB6EB50:01C04961] From: Todd Talsma Subject: [Fwd: Presidential Election]Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 11:33:30 -0500 Oops, I meant to send this to the list, not just Richard. --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm Thanks Todd, We in oregon are serious about how we are stewards of the environment. We took on the timber Co's in the 60's and 70's and won important battles about care of riparian zones along our streams among others. This was all done at the state level and with a spirit of cooperation( alot of loggers are fishermen also) . Then the feds took over and it is a mess, no longer are the activists(hate that word) interested in proper stewardship of the land were some kind of deadly vermin. Much of the federal land cannot be used even for recreation. It is a bloody mess! Oregon is over 50% ownwd by the feds. 'Envirobmentalist' is now a code word for a unthinking zealot. I live in eugene and we are the birthplace for the environmental terrorists and anarchists for the west coast. Enough of this rant, but the point is that this issue is much more complicated when you see the progress you have made corrupted and co- opted, your local economy be destroyed for want of common sense, and control ofthe very lands that comprise your state forcibly taken away and handed to unthinking beauracrats that answer to no one within 3000miles. Don't even get me started on activist federal judges who should be handed a copy of the constitution and the bill of rights with a post it note on it that reminds them that all of their ruling must fall within it's few, simple to read and understand pages. :)A.J._________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Nov 8 03:35:21 2000 eA89ZJG04649 eA89Z5x27908; Subject: Re: [Fwd: Presidential Election] Organization: vet Owen I say to myself at least on a weekly basis that I wish I had learned tobuild bamboo rods when I was still in a less vegetative stage of my life!How I agree with you! Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: [Fwd: Presidential Election] Kevin M. Buchanan said: I don't think it's a matter of being a devoted environmentalist. It's a question of doing what is best with the resources that God has given us... I think the difference is that one major candidate (read, one that canactually win) is an environmental extremist and one is not. Yeah. Too bad the extremist is on the side of rape and pillage. (Sorry. Don't mean to be grumpy, but I really need the election to beover!) Could we maybe go back to rod making? My somewhat useless contribution: I would absolutely have loved to learnbamboo rod building when I was a kid. Tied flies from the time I wassix. Assembled -- you can't really say "built" -- a couple of f!be#g!*$srods, but soon found that it was a whole lot more expensive than buildingplastic model airplanes and didn't think it involved a lot more skill orevenoffered that much more of a payoff. (Maybe if I'd been getting my blanks from Russ Peak instead of Herters...) Several decades later, I've justlearned that I grew up within five or six miles of Pinky Gillum. One fromthe if-only-I'd- known department! Owen Davies from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Nov 8 03:54:00 2000 eA89rvG04869 eA89rpx29651; Subject: Re: Books Organization: vet Hello, Danny So you ask a simple question, and everyone gives you the benefit of theirliterary expertise. Including me! IMHO, John Geirach is OK; better as a magazine writer than in books ( asurprising number of his book chapters started life as magazine pieces ).Pretty repetitive, I think, and writes what he knows will reach his audienceand sell books. I mean, for Heavens' sake, the man is a best selling authorand must be worth positively squillions by now, and he still writes asthough he was growing his own turnips and weaving his own jockey shorts! Paul Schullery brings to bear more knowledge and factual detail inwell-written prose than anybody else does, and in particular his RoyalCoachman is a delight to read. But the doyen of them all, though not perhaps on theme ( you mentioned the"history" of the sport, and this man writes more on the philosophy ofangling ), and one of the best authors currently writing in the Englishlanguage, is surely Tom McGuane. Pick up any of his books and you will bewell rewarded; but read "The Longest Silence", and you have read a piece ofmodern angling prose writing that is as good as anything ever written. IMHO, of course! All the best Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Books Due to low activity on the List, last couple of weeks, I have one for you. I've consider myself as an "history less" (terms?) newbie rodmaker.I started flyfishing 4 years ago, never was interested in fishing before,and rodmaking the next winter!! I had seen some cane rods before, and Ifound them beautiful, so I wanted to buy a one as my first rod. But theguyin the shop taught it was a bad idea, so out I went with a graphite 3piece9' #5/6 kit rod.The guy in the shop is a close friend of mine now, he own lots ofcanerods,old and new!!!I swoped the kit for a nice wading jacket with him:-) Out in the stream I tried to get the hang on the gear, but all I got wasthethrees. Out on a big grass field, I dry caste and managed to get 10m lineout, with lots of knots not only on the leader.....I fished the kit for acouple of weeks. The next time I was in the shop, they had a sweetChapmanmade 7' #3/4 Garrison taper for sale. The former owner never figured outhowto cast the rod. I bought it, and when I tried it with my new reel/line,I saw the light!! I could feel the rod load, and I could actually get moreline out with far less tangle and knots. The other day a borrowed a book of a friend, John Gierach, I've only readacouple of chapters, but I've found so many similarities in what I'veexperience my self. I'm starting to learn my history too! So do You Listmembers have other books to recommend? I'm a lousy writer in norwegian, so this must be terribly:-) regardsdanny from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Nov 8 04:16:21 2000 eA8AGFG05180 eA8AG7x31919; Subject: Re: Books Organization: vet Hello Danny So you ask a simple question, and you get the benefit of all the frustratedliterary critics' opinions. Mine included! IMHO, John Geirach is OK, but more of a magazine writer than a book authorof substance ( it's amazing how many of the chapters in his books first sawthe light as magazine pieces ). He is obviously very commercially motivatedand very repetitive: writes very much what will sell lots of books, anddoes that very well. Sincerity index pretty low, I think; I mean, the man isa best-selling author, and must by now be worth absolutely squillions, andyet he still writes as though he grows his own turnips and weaves his ownJockey shorts ! Paul Schullery is very good value, and an author of substance; his factualcontent is really impressive, he writes beautifully and is very readable.Any of his material is good, but "The Royal Coachman" is really great, andvery informative. But surely the doyen of modern angling writers must be Tom McGuane. I thinkhe is one of the best writers currently working in the English language inany subject. If you read any of his books you will be very very wellrewarded, but if you take my advice, start with "The Longest Silence". Youwill then have read angling writing that is as good as anything everwritten, and if you are like me, you will feel really good! All the best Peter (PS I tried to send this a bit earlier, but that version seems to have goneinto electronic Purgatory somewhere)----- Original Message ----- Subject: Books Due to low activity on the List, last couple of weeks, I have one for you. I've consider myself as an "history less" (terms?) newbie rodmaker.I started flyfishing 4 years ago, never was interested in fishing before,and rodmaking the next winter!! I had seen some cane rods before, and Ifound them beautiful, so I wanted to buy a one as my first rod. But theguyin the shop taught it was a bad idea, so out I went with a graphite 3piece9' #5/6 kit rod.The guy in the shop is a close friend of mine now, he own lots ofcanerods,old and new!!!I swoped the kit for a nice wading jacket with him:-) Out in the stream I tried to get the hang on the gear, but all I got wasthethrees. Out on a big grass field, I dry caste and managed to get 10m line>out, with lots of knots not only on the leader.....I fished the kit for acouple of weeks. The next time I was in the shop, they had a sweetChapmanmade 7' #3/4 Garrison taper for sale. The former owner never figured outhowto cast the rod. I bought it, and when I tried it with my new reel/line,I saw the light!! I could feel the rod load, and I could actually get moreline out with far less tangle and knots. The other day a borrowed a book of a friend, John Gierach, I've only readacouple of chapters, but I've found so many similarities in what I'veexperience my self. I'm starting to learn my history too! So do You Listmembers have other books to recommend? I'm a lousy writer in norwegian, so this must be terribly:-) regardsdanny from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Nov 8 04:35:41 2000 eA8AZbG05503 eA8AZSx33915; Subject: Re: Silk Fly Lines Organization: vet Hello, John You are quite right, there was a lot of discussion about silk fly lines, andsome enquiries I made with some local mills that have the sort of braidingmachines capable of making silk lines evinced sort of amused pity as atypical response. But as for making them in your basement - be of good heart! I am quite personally convinced that at least one man will make them in hisbasement, and that is Mike Roberts in Western Australia. All the best Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Silk Fly Lines Robert;There was quite a bit of discussion a while back about the making ofsilk lines, the gist of it was that it was pretty darn complicated andnot the kind of thing one could do in ones basement. search the archivesand you will find the thread on it.John Robert Holder wrote: Hello all, I have been wondering lately about silk fly lines and after readingseveral articles about them I wanted to post a few questions I haveabout them. Has anyone made there own silk fly line? If so where doI get some more information or instruction on making your own silk flylines. How does the made silk line compare with a manufactured silkline? Lastly what is the cost savings between making your own silkfly line to purchasing one? Most of those ending question areassuming that one could make there own silk fly line. Any comments oranswers would be helpful. Thanks Robert H. from owen@davies.mv.com Wed Nov 8 07:35:08 2000 eA8DZ7G06882 Subject: Re: Books Among other comments, Peter McKean wrote: IMHO, John Geirach is OK, but more of a magazine writer than a book authorof substance ( it's amazing how many of the chapters in his books firstsawthe light as magazine pieces ). He is obviously very commerciallymotivatedand very repetitive: writes very much what will sell lots of books, anddoes that very well. Sincerity index pretty low, I think; I mean, the manisa best-selling author, and must by now be worth absolutely squillions, andyet he still writes as though he grows his own turnips and weaves his ownJockey shorts ! Er, WADR, this is something I know about. (Naturally it has little to dowithrod-making.) Gierach is a long way from being a best-selling author. ThinkJohn Grisham or Steven King; next to them, Gierach is a pauper. If he getsthe standard contract, and that's likely to be the best he does, he'sreceiving10 percent of the cover price for the first 5000 copies sold, 12.5 percentforthe next 5000 copies (possibly 10K; depends on the publisher), and 15percent thereafter. There are variations for book club sales and otherspecialdeals that cut into his profits. His advance against royalties, the moneyonwhich writers really live, is calculated at his estimated royalties for thefirstyear of sales, downshifted by as much as the publisher figures he can getaway with. I'd bet it's less than 30K copies, and more than 40K wouldamaze me. You can figure the advance from that. Assume he gets half ofit when he signs the contract and half on acceptance -- or, rather,somethinglike two months after the nominal dates; it takes most publishers forever todisgorge a check. (You've probably already guessed what I do for a living. I once actuallydelivered a book before receiving the first half of the advance -- and itwasn'tmade up of magazine articles. Comes to that, I once edited some paperbackanthologies and delivered all four of them before receiving any of theadvance.) I don't think we have to feel sorry for Gierach. He does, after all, keepbooksin print for years -- long enough to get some royalties from them, and withenough titles out there they can add up to a decent piece of income. ButI'd bethe isn't making any more than a top programmer or an upper level exec --a nice living, but not so much that it would erase anyone's memory of theirroots,given a halfway decent grip on reality in the first place. Owen Davies from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Nov 8 08:17:46 2000 eA8EHiG08031 0500 Subject: RE: Grooved Planes They'll do whatever you want...you just may have to wait a few extra weeksto get it. Some people even do .002. I did .003 and in hindsight could do.002....just enough to keep my forms safe. I think it's a personalthing...I've used no groove, .005, and .002...they all work... -----Original Message----- Subject: Grooved Planes I recently tried to order a Lie-Nielsen Block Plane with the .005 rod makers groove. They told me they have changed the groove to .003 deep. Does anyone on the list know why they changed the depth? Their E-mail to me stated they have done this by popular demand from the buyers, ".003 is the medium where they cover the needs of most". Does .003 work better, is this still an advantage over the flat sole?Thanks in advance. Bob McElvain from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Nov 8 08:38:38 2000 eA8EcZG09069 Subject: Re: Silk Fly Lines I recently received a Phoenix silk line from Olaf and I must say itcertainly is a very nice piece of work. As well as attempting to cast some horrible pink thing of a line that hadunusual charastistics I also cast a test line Olaf had at Greyling and I'vebeen looking forward to having one ever since.Nicely packaged with a tub of red Mucilin and the smell andfeel....arrrrh......I'm yet to try it out fishing but I'll give it a goodtest in NZ in a couple of weeks. I would be gob smacked if I don't find itsuperb. I have no vested interest bla bla bla but I wish I did. Last I hear Mike had a large herd of silk worms with healthy appetites.These may have been breeding stock so wont be harvested but Mike gets amaniacal gleam in his eye sometimes and it's always there when ever thesubject of silk comes up.I try not to think about what he has in mind for the poor devils but itkeeps him off the streets and out of trouble. Tony At 09:31 PM 11/8/00 +1100, petermckean wrote:Hello, John You are quite right, there was a lot of discussion about silk fly lines, andsome enquiries I made with some local mills that have the sort of braidingmachines capable of making silk lines evinced sort of amused pity as atypical response. But as for making them in your basement - be of good heart! I am quite personally convinced that at least one man will make them in hisbasement, and that is Mike Roberts in Western Australia. All the best Peter----- Original Message -----From: "channer" Cc: "Rodmakers" Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 4:58 PMSubject: Re: Silk Fly Lines Robert;There was quite a bit of discussion a while back about the making ofsilk lines, the gist of it was that it was pretty darn complicated andnot the kind of thing one could do in ones basement. search the archivesand you will find the thread on it.John Robert Holder wrote: Hello all, I have been wondering lately about silk fly lines and after readingseveral articles about them I wanted to post a few questions I haveabout them. Has anyone made there own silk fly line? If so where doI get some more information or instruction on making your own silk flylines. How does the made silk line compare with a manufactured silkline? Lastly what is the cost savings between making your own silkfly line to purchasing one? Most of those ending question areassuming that one could make there own silk fly line. Any comments oranswers would be helpful. Thanks Robert H. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from zimmer@adams.net Wed Nov 8 08:53:17 2000 eA8ErHG09625 (qmailr@216.138.0.16) Subject: Re: Tony Young quote This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C04961.6650CA80 "I would be gob smacked if I don't find it"----ok, I give up. What does =it mean? :) ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C04961.6650CA80 "I would be gob smacked if I don't find it"----ok, I = ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C04961.6650CA80-- from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 8 08:53:20 2000 eA8ErIG09633 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Presidential Election] "Over by midnight" !!!!!......Rich Colo marty wrote: marty wrote: Catholics fish cane, Protestants fish graphite, Baptists use dynamite.Marty Ooooh, that hurts Marty. Did you remember that by calling I'm a Baptistminister? I've never used dynamite. Rotenone a few times, and gill netsonce ortwice, but never dynamite. :--)) Naah, I know this is just in fun, and thank goodness it'll mostly be overwith bymidnight. HarryAmen to that, Reverend. Marty--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Nov 8 09:39:01 2000 eA8FcwG12260 Wed, 8 Nov 2000 23:38:53 +0800 Wed, 8 Nov 2000 23:40:52 +0800 Subject: Re: Tony Young quote I obviously need to stop speaking pidgin. :-)What I ment to say was I'd be highly surprised if the line was anything otherthan excellent. Tony At 08:53 AM 11/8/00 -0600, Randy Zimmerman wrote: "I would be gob smacked if I don't find it"----ok, I give up. What does itmean? :) /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from JANSNOWRICHARDS@aol.com Wed Nov 8 10:51:06 2000 eA8Gp5G14708 Subject: scraping planes rodmaker friends - We just bought a Lie-Nielsen small scraper plane, and I have a couple of questions to you who have them. 1. What angle you honethe blades? Do you use the same angle as the Stanley 9 1/2 ? (which is what we have been using). 2. What angle do you use when you insert the blade. Their directions say 5-10 degrees forward of vertical. Thanks for any help you can give us. from Troy.Miller@bakeroiltools.com Wed Nov 8 11:55:21 2000 eA8HtKG17264 [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) 11:51:35 2000 -0600 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: Presidential Election] Barry -- I feel that timing is everything. This incredibly long thread wasworthwhile (if not disruptive) because it is a major current event thatshould be close to the heart of all true sportsmen. And if we keep ourintellectual sparring tactful, it is healthy to consider alternate views.If this discussion took place in a month from now, it would likely befruitless blather. Now for the challenge: Get yourself a ticket to Anchorage. I will coordinate and escort a visit toKaktovik, and you will have personal experience that will allow you to forma fair and valid opinion. Knowing that the earth must be pierced throughthe crust somewhere to acquire the petrol that we have come to depend on,man must decide which areas have more value to leave alone, and whichareasshould be carefully utilized. It is my belief that hydrocarbons under theextreme northern edge of ANWR should be produced, but the activitiesregulated with extreme concern for the well-being of the flora and fauna inthe area (what little there really is....). The catch is -- you must writea report to listmembers to provide a clear and fair assessment of what yousee. We'll take along a digital camera, and attempt to take even one photoof caribou in the foothills.... Respectfully -- TAM ---------- Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 12:06 AM Subject: RE: Presidential Election] Troy - Thanks for the "information," it's nice to know that there is actually alotof nothing on the Alaskan north slope. How about if we let this listreturnto being a discussion about bamboo rods and closely related things. Barry -----Original Message-----From: Miller, Troy A. Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 3:04 PM Subject: RE: Presidential Election] Brian, et al -- As you can tell by my address, I am one of those "baaaad"people. You know,one of those oilfield workers. I have to confess to being aperson who hasno concern for the environment whatsoever, just so I canline my pocketswith gold. The word ethical isn't in my vocabulary. Now I don't know what Jr's daddy did while he was in thewhite house, butthat is not a subject of debate. The statements that youmake about ANWRare absolutley inaccurate, and I feel the need to refutethem with accurateinformation. First, the commecial quantity of hydrocarbons (oil andnatural gas) that isestimated to be present in the ANWR area is much larger than"six months toa year's worth". I cannot provide numbers (bound tosecrecy), but as anengineer, I was out collecting technical data on one of theearly wellsdrilled to define the extent of this reservoir. I can tellyou that thesize is SUBSTANTIAL. Maybe fuel the world for a year ortwo. Or more. Second, you need to physically get yourself on an airplane,fly to the northslope, then take a chopper or a rollagon out to the vicinityof Kaktovik,and sit there a few hours and just melt into the subtlebeauty of the area.You will find that there is a whole lot of nothin' there.It is purely anarctic desert. The "save nature" organizations send outthese prettybrochures of some caribou herd that appears to be closer toMulchatna thanANWR, but it serves their purpose. The dollars pour in tosave thisbeautiful sanctuary. Bottom line is, the area is temporaryhome tomigrating herds that have been essentially unaffected by theoilfieldactivities in the Prudhoe Bay field. Lessons learned overthe past 25 yearsat Prudhoe show that reserves of oil and gas may clearly beproduced andutilized without significant risk to this fragile arcticecosystem. It is our challenge as overachieving neanderthals to makecareful use of theresources around us, and realize that there is no freelunch. Zero impactcamping is a myth. The dynamics of living, of being, createin irreversibleimpact on the planet. You can't leave this world exactly asyou found it,sorry to break the news to you. To assure you that my first paragraph is utter sarcasm, Icould tell youabout all the stream cleanups, habitat projects, and youthconservationeducation programs that I have been involved in. But Iwon't. That is notthe point. As Americans, we want our cake and everyoneelse's. I love theenvironment, and want to see no harm come to it. Indeed, Iam a bunnyhugger, but also a realist. Let he who walked or rode abicycle to workthis morning cast the next stone..... TAM ---------- Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 10:43 AM Subject: Re: Presidential Election] I sent this last night to Mr. Cerise and meant to send itto the list too. Nope. I'm not gonna hitchya. I'm not gonna hitchya. Like hell I'm not! Let's see. A republican pres. and a republican congress,many of whom wehaven't purged since they rode into town with Newt and thecontract onAmerica. (Weren't they all for term limits back then?) Aguy whose dadhad Danny Quaile as a veep start the council oncompetitiveness to end- runenvironmental regs. A guy whose dad was on the samecabinet as JamesWatt. A guy who wants to drill and pump oil from theArctic Nat'lWildlife refuge for 6 mos to a year's worth of oil. Hell, catch and release will be the least of our worries.We'll have togo back to worryin' about findin' water clean enough forthe fish to livein. We'll all be gettin' what Clinton reserved for theinterns! I am really Sorry! But myopia needs corrective action. Brian from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Nov 8 12:06:26 2000 eA8I6PG17637 Subject: RE: Presidential Election Gentlemen,I'm sure there are many "chat rooms" on the internet where one could havethis lively disscussion but this should not be that forum.Thank You, Gary H. from oossg@vbe.com Wed Nov 8 12:20:50 2000 eA8IKnG18086 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Presidential Election I agree. Thank you!Scott Heidt wrote: Gentlemen,I'm sure there are many "chat rooms" on the internet where one could havethis lively disscussion but this should not be that forum.Thank You,Gary H. from Canerods@aol.com Wed Nov 8 12:32:28 2000 eA8IWRG18523 Subject: Re: Presidential Election] Take it else where - try crying.in.your.beer.posts.net from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Nov 8 14:46:22 2000 (may be forged)) eA8KkLG23734 KlingB@health.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Presidential Election] I'm beginning to think you missed my point. -----Original Message-----From: Miller, Troy A. Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 11:55 AM Cc: RodmakersSubject: RE: Presidential Election] Barry -- I feel that timing is everything. This incredibly longthread wasworthwhile (if not disruptive) because it is a major currentevent thatshould be close to the heart of all true sportsmen. And ifwe keep ourintellectual sparring tactful, it is healthy to consideralternate views.If this discussion took place in a month from now, it wouldlikely befruitless blather. Now for the challenge: Get yourself a ticket to Anchorage. I will coordinate andescort a visit toKaktovik, and you will have personal experience that willallow you to forma fair and valid opinion. Knowing that the earth must bepierced throughthe crust somewhere to acquire the petrol that we have cometo depend on,man must decide which areas have more value to leave alone,and which areasshould be carefully utilized. It is my belief thathydrocarbons under theextreme northern edge of ANWR should be produced, but theactivitiesregulated with extreme concern for the well-being of theflora and fauna inthe area (what little there really is....). The catch is --you must writea report to listmembers to provide a clear and fairassessment of what yousee. We'll take along a digital camera, and attempt to takeeven one photoof caribou in the foothills.... Respectfully -- TAM ----------From: Kling, Barry Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 12:06 AM Subject: RE: Presidential Election] Troy - Thanks for the "information," it's nice to know that thereis actually alotof nothing on the Alaskan north slope. How about if we letthis listreturnto being a discussion about bamboo rods and closelyrelated things. Barry -----Original Message-----From: Miller, Troy A. Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 3:04 PM piscator@macatawa.orgSubject: RE: Presidential Election] Brian, et al -- As you can tell by my address, I am one ofthose "baaaad"people. You know,one of those oilfield workers. I have toconfess to being aperson who hasno concern for the environment whatsoever,just so I canline my pocketswith gold. The word ethical isn't in myvocabulary. Now I don't know what Jr's daddy did whilehe was in thewhite house, butthat is not a subject of debate. Thestatements that youmake about ANWRare absolutley inaccurate, and I feel theneed to refutethem with accurateinformation. First, the commecial quantity ofhydrocarbons (oil andnatural gas) that isestimated to be present in the ANWR area ismuch larger than"six months toa year's worth". I cannot provide numbers(bound tosecrecy), but as anengineer, I was out collecting technicaldata on one of theearly wellsdrilled to define the extent of thisreservoir. I can tellyou that thesize is SUBSTANTIAL. Maybe fuel the world two. Or more. Second, you need to physically get yourselfon an airplane,fly to the northslope, then take a chopper or a rollagon outto the vicinityof Kaktovik,and sit there a few hours and just melt intothe subtlebeauty of the area.You will find that there is a whole lot ofnothin' there.It is purely anarctic desert. The "save nature"organizations send outthese prettybrochures of some caribou herd that appearsto be closer toMulchatna thanANWR, but it serves their purpose. Thedollars pour in tosave thisbeautiful sanctuary. Bottom line is, thearea is temporaryhome tomigrating herds that have been essentiallyunaffected by theoilfieldactivities in the Prudhoe Bay field.Lessons learned overthe past 25 yearsat Prudhoe show that reserves of oil and gasmay clearly beproduced andutilized without significant risk to thisfragile arcticecosystem. It is our challenge as overachievingneanderthals to makecareful use of theresources around us, and realize that thereis no freelunch. Zero impactcamping is a myth. The dynamics of living,of being, createin irreversibleimpact on the planet. You can't leave thisworld exactly asyou found it,sorry to break the news to you. To assure you that my first paragraph isutter sarcasm, Icould tell youabout all the stream cleanups, habitatprojects, and youthconservationeducation programs that I have been involvedin. But Iwon't. That is notthe point. As Americans, we want our cakeand everyoneelse's. I love theenvironment, and want to see no harm come toit. Indeed, Iam a bunnyhugger, but also a realist. Let he whowalked or rode abicycle to workthis morning cast the next stone..... TAM ----------From: Brian Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 200010:43 AM Subject: Re: Presidential Election] I sent this last night to Mr. Cerise andmeant to send itto the list too. Nope. I'm not gonna hitchya. I'm not gonna hitchya. Like hell I'm not! Let's see. A republican pres. and arepublican congress,many of whom wehaven't purged since they rode into townwith Newt and thecontract onAmerica. (Weren't they all for termlimits back then?) Aguy whose dadhad Danny Quaile as a veep start thecouncil oncompetitiveness to end- runenvironmental regs. A guy whose dad wason the samecabinet as JamesWatt. A guy who wants to drill and pumpoil from theArctic Nat'lWildlife refuge for 6 mos to a year'sworth of oil. Hell, catch and release will be the leastof our worries.We'll have togo back to worryin' about findin' waterclean enough forthe fish to livein. We'll all be gettin' what Clintonreserved for theinterns! I am really Sorry! But myopia needscorrective action. Brian from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Nov 8 14:50:48 2000 eA8KokG24148 12:50:39 PST Subject: the list "rod 'akers" peter, me too! i didn't know that it was an option. i have a twelve year old son and i hope i can help himsee that he has unlimited opportunities. with theinternet his world will be alot larger than mine. thelist has opened rodmaking to so many that otherwisewould not know. timothy --- petermckean wrote:Owen I say to myself at least on a weekly basis that Iwish I had learned tobuild bamboo rods when I was still in a lessvegetative stage of my life!How I agree with you! Peter ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.http://shopping.yahoo.com/ from Grayson.Davis@valpo.edu Wed Nov 8 15:00:56 2000 eA8L0tG24690 Subject: finish for blued/blackened metal I have a vague memory that some posts mentioned spraying blackened metal parts with a clear finish that was tougher than varnish. Was it some kind of Krylon??? Was it some kind of auto finish material??? Am I getting senile??? I apologise for rehashing this old topic, but I've been searching the archive and can't find anything on this. -----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from briansr@point-net.com Wed Nov 8 18:06:23 2000 eA906MG01853 Subject: Re: Presidential Election now that Hillary has been elected does that mean that SHE get's Bill'scigar????? from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Wed Nov 8 18:29:41 2000 eA90TdG02552 Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 09 Nov 2000 08:29:32 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) Subject: RE: Silk Fly Lines Hi Robert, Think very carefully before you dive into this one. I've been gatheringinformation and materials for about a year now and am still some way offturning out a finished line. Without the generosity of several listers Iwould've hit a brick wall shortly after day one.The method involves having two banks of eight silk threads, counter-rotatingand intertwining to form a continuous braided tube. Some threads have tobechanged to different thicknesses at various stages if you want a taper andthen the whole shooting match has to be impregnated and dressed. How topre-determine line weight is a bridge I have yet to cross.As far as cost is concerned, it would not be economical to make a singleline, however, if you plan to make quite a few, as I do, then I think therewould be considerable savings.If you are genuinely interested, I would be happy to share information withyou. Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Silk Fly Lines Hello all, I have been wondering lately about silk fly lines and after reading severalarticles about them I wanted to post a few questions I have about them. Hasanyone made there own silk fly line? If so where do I get some moreinformation or instruction on making your own silk fly lines. How does themade silk line compare with a manufactured silk line? Lastly what is thecost savings between making your own silk fly line to purchasing one? Mostof those ending question are assuming that one could make there own silk flyline. Any comments or answers would be helpful. Thanks Robert H. from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Wed Nov 8 19:01:21 2000 eA911JG03247 Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 09 Nov 2000 09:00:40 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) Rodmakers Subject: RE: Tony Young quote Stunned, amazed, taken aback..... as you would be if some reprobatesmackedyou in the gob (mouth)Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Tony Young quote "I would be gob smacked if I don't find it"----ok, I give up. What does itmean? :) from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Nov 8 19:16:44 2000 eA91GhG03606 Subject: Re: finish for blued/blackened metal Grayson, I use a product called Stay-Bright. This is a clearcoating made for metal (Brass lamps, beds,etc.) It dries hardand also has a UV protection in it, which will help the oxidizedfinish from fading over time from the sunlight. You can purchaseStay-Bright from most wood working catalogs. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from harry37@ipa.net Wed Nov 8 19:25:33 2000 eA91PXG03954 Subject: Re: finish for blued/blackened metal I've also seen that product at the two big national home center chains(the orange one and the blue one.... no commercial interest, yadda,yadda...) LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: Grayson,I use a product called Stay-Bright. This is a clearcoating made for metal (Brass lamps, beds,etc.) It dries hardand also has a UV protection in it, which will help the oxidizedfinish from fading over time from the sunlight. You can purchaseStay-Bright from most wood working catalogs. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Wed Nov 8 20:48:06 2000 eA92m3G06151 Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:44:46 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) Subject: RE: Silk Fly Lines Thanks for the vote of confidence Peter. That old Chinese proverb about ajourney of a thousand miles beginning with a single step springs to mindhere : )Stay luckyMike Peter McKean wrote: But as for making them in your basement - be of good heart!I am quite personally convinced that at least one man will make them in hisbasement, and that is Mike Roberts in Western Australia. from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Wed Nov 8 20:54:38 2000 eA92saG06466 Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:52:49 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) Rodmakers Subject: RE: Silk Fly Lines Owen,You're dead on about rayon lacking traditional appeal. As far ascost goes, the raw materials aren't all that expensive. Like bamboo rods,it's the labour component that really inflates the price.Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Silk Fly Lines Robert Holder asked some interesting questions about silk lines.I have one more: One of the classic synthetic fibers -- rayon? --is an artificial version of silk. Does anyone have any reason whyit can't be used for "silk" fly lines? Seems to me it should workjust as well, but at a more competitive price. A mite short ontradition-appeal, of course. Owen Davies from lblove@omniglobal.net Wed Nov 8 21:12:25 2000 eA93COG06975 Subject: vixen files This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_012E_01C049C7.EAE26900 some time ago there was some interest about vixen files.I was just looking at the Grizzly Industrial catalog tonight and found = appears to be a 10" vixen with the catalog item number of G7792in the current 2000 catalog no commercial interest, just thought it might be of interest Brad ------=_NextPart_000_012E_01C049C7.EAE26900 some time ago there was some interest about files.I was just looking at the Grizzly = tonight and found what appears to be a 10" vixen with the catalog item = G7792in the current 2000 catalog no commercial interest, just thought it might be interest Brad ------=_NextPart_000_012E_01C049C7.EAE26900-- from idinsy@global.co.za Thu Nov 9 04:46:31 2000 eA9AkTG13053 (SAT) Subject: Glue This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C04A4B.A4F50EA0 Hi I have been told to use a glue type called Cascamite to glue my strippes =together. Has any one out there ever used Cascamite before and if so =with what results?. have picked valueble information that is not available in SA Kind regards Ian GornallSouth Africa ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C04A4B.A4F50EA0 Hi I have been told to use a glue type = Cascamite before and if so with what results?. = about 3 months now and have picked valueble information that is not = SA Kind regards Ian GornallSouthAfrica ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C04A4B.A4F50EA0-- from idinsy@global.co.za Thu Nov 9 04:52:02 2000 eA9Aq1G13294 sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:51:20 +0200 (SAT) Subject: Glue This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_SwqikOWZoVuRoVgXRVP/qw) Hi Is there any one out there who has used a glue called Cascamite and if =so was the process a success?. I have been monitoring this site for about 3 months now and have picked =up many a tip that I would not known if it were not for you guys willing =to share your knowledge. ThanksIan GornallSouth Africa --Boundary_(ID_SwqikOWZoVuRoVgXRVP/qw) Hi Is there any one out there who has used= called Cascamite and if so was the process a success?. I have been monitoring this site for = now and have picked up many a tip that I would not known if it were not = guys willing to share your knowledge. ThanksIan GornallSouthAfrica --Boundary_(ID_SwqikOWZoVuRoVgXRVP/qw)-- from owen@davies.mv.com Thu Nov 9 07:11:30 2000 eA9DBUG14812 Subject: Re: Silk Fly Lines Owen,You're dead on about rayon lacking traditional appeal. As far ascost goes, the raw materials aren't all that expensive. Like bamboo rods,it's the labour component that really inflates the price. Makes sense to me. Probably size of the market as well. Make them could bring the price down. But then it wouldn't be craftsmanship,much less tradition. Owen from zimmer@adams.net Thu Nov 9 07:48:31 2000 eA9DmUG15237 (qmailr@216.138.0.16) Subject: RE:vixen files This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C04A21.875143C0 I found and purchased a Nicholson file similar to the vixen and after =several hours with it I find it to be far superior to a mill bastard =file . Probably 5 times as fast at flattening forms, and hardly clogs, I =wear gloves to file and just a quick swipe with my hand clears it. Thank =you to whomever originally recommended it!!! ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C04A21.875143C0 I found and purchased a Nicholson file similar to = and after several hours with it I find it to be far superior to a mill = file . Probably 5 times as fast at flattening forms, and hardly clogs, I = gloves to file and just a quick swipe with my hand clears it. Thank you = whomever originally recommended it!!! ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C04A21.875143C0-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Nov 9 07:59:27 2000 eA9DxOG15504 Subject: Re: Glue Ian,if the Cascomite you mean is made by Borden of the UK and is a whitepowderyoumix plain tap water with IMHO it would be fine to use. It's a UF which is whatyou want and just an a point of interest it's made as a by product of skimmilkproduction. I haven't used it to glue rods but that's just because I have access to liquidUF and liquid hardener by Borden as well as Resorcinol and Shell Epon but ifthat wan't the case I would use Cascomite and not expect any problems. I say this because it's the glue I use most often for laminating wood for bentwood jobs like boat frames and laminations of ply wood because it's cheap forthe job it does and works well and holds up.About 4 years back I made a clinker glued lap dingy using only Cascomite foruse as my boat tender. It lives uncovered and chained to a tree on the riverbank inshore from my boat and has survived being towed more than 1000milesandwhat ever the local kids have done to it all that time. I shouldn't talk aboutit though because I'm bound to find some kid has jumped through it next timeIsee it.About the only jobs I wouldn't do with it is make spars or scarfs on timberthat will be permanently submerged. It's prob be fine as the glue for sparsbutit sets up too quickly. As far as making rods with it goes the only possible hasle I can see withit isit has a relatively short pot life so sets up reasonably quickly and as far asI know there is no way of retarding the rate apart from keeping the pot youmixit in in a dish of cold water. So if you use it make sure you're well prepared and have the binding finishedas quickly as possible. Tony At 12:50 PM 11/9/00 +0200, Iis wrote: Hi I have been told to use a glue type called Cascamite to glue my strippestogether. Has any one out there ever used Cascamite before and if so withwhat results?. havepicked valueble information that is not available in SA Kind regards Ian GornallSouth Africa /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. " - Tom Clancy /*************************************************************************/ from jczimny@dol.net Thu Nov 9 09:06:53 2000 eA9F6qG17965 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: Glue --------------0000625CDF54F3836173C179 Cascamite is a casien formulation once produced by the old Cascocompany. Some of Casco's product line is being manufactured by Borden.Borden has chosen to retain the old names.Cascamite has been used by lots of rodmakers. It has good waterresistence and forms a very durable, hard, product. Sticks good too. Theonly problem can be short pot-life and open time.John Z Iis wrote: Hi Is there any one out there who has used a glue called Cascamite andif so was the process a success?. I have been monitoring this site forabout 3 months now and have picked up many a tip that I would notknown if it were not for you guys willing to share yourknowledge. ThanksIan GornallSouth Africa --------------0000625CDF54F3836173C179 Cascamite is a casien formulation once produced by the old Casco company.Some of Casco's product line is being manufactured by Borden. Borden haschosen to retain the old names.Cascamite has been used by lots of rodmakers. It has good waterresistenceand forms a very durable, hard, product. Sticks good too. The only problemcan be short pot-life and open time.John ZIis wrote: there any one out there who has used a glue called Cascamite and if so have been monitoring this site for about 3 months now and have picked upmany a tip that I would not known if it were not for you guys willing to GornallSouthAfrica --------------0000625CDF54F3836173C179-- from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Thu Nov 9 13:12:51 2000 eA9JCoG28366 Thu, 9 Nov 2000 19:12:47 +0000 Subject: Re: Glue Tony Young wrote: Ian,if the Cascomite you mean is made by Borden of the UK and is a whitepowderyoumix plain tap water with IMHO it would be fine to use. It's a UF which is whatyou want and just an a point of interest it's made as a by product of skimmilkproduction. I haven't used it to glue rods but that's just because I have access to liquidUF and liquid hardener by Borden as well as Resorcinol and Shell Epon but ifthat wan't the case I would use Cascomite and not expect any problems.I say this because it's the glue I use most often for laminating wood forbentwood jobs like boat frames and laminations of ply wood because it's cheapforthe job it does and works well and holds up.About 4 years back I made a clinker glued lap dingy using only Cascomiteforuse as my boat tender. It lives uncovered and chained to a tree on theriverbank inshore from my boat and has survived being towed more than 1000milesandwhat ever the local kids have done to it all that time. I shouldn't talk aboutit though because I'm bound to find some kid has jumped through it nexttime Isee it.About the only jobs I wouldn't do with it is make spars or scarfs on timberthat will be permanently submerged. It's prob be fine as the glue for sparsbutit sets up too quickly. As far as making rods with it goes the only possible hasle I can see withit isit has a relatively short pot life so sets up reasonably quickly and as far asI know there is no way of retarding the rate apart from keeping the potyoumixit in in a dish of cold water.So if you use it make sure you're well prepared and have the bindingfinishedas quickly as possible. Tony At 12:50 PM 11/9/00 +0200, Iis wrote: Hi I have been told to use a glue type called Cascamite to glue my strippestogether. Has any one out there ever used Cascamite before and if sowithwhat results?. havepicked valueble information that is not available in SA Kind regards Ian GornallSouth Africa /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. "- Tom Clancy /*************************************************************************/ from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Thu Nov 9 13:28:26 2000 eA9JSPG28945 Thu, 9 Nov 2000 19:28:22 +0000 Subject: Re: Glue Cascomite was THE GLUE used by the old UK firms such as Hardy,Allcocksetc etc.....it is a proven rod building adhesive !I use it on my blond rods with resorcinol on my flamed.Most of the UKrod builders now use Aerolite 308 including for example Partridge ofRedditch.Cascomite has three problem areas to note;1) It has a short pot life as Tony pointed out.You therefore have towork fast and I would recommend one mix per rod section. 2) It must be kept in a dry environment when in storage. 3)It is not as waterproof as resorcinol or aerolite.However as manyHardy, Allcocks etc rods are still giving good service what the heck ! In summary although there are better adhesives available you can usecascomite with 100% confidence........Paul "paul.blakley" wrote: Tony Young wrote: Ian,if the Cascomite you mean is made by Borden of the UK and is a whitepowderyoumix plain tap water with IMHO it would be fine to use. It's a UF which iswhatyou want and just an a point of interest it's made as a by product ofskimmilkproduction. I haven't used it to glue rods but that's just because I have access toliquidUF and liquid hardener by Borden as well as Resorcinol and Shell Epon butifthat wan't the case I would use Cascomite and not expect any problems.I say this because it's the glue I use most often for laminating wood forbentwood jobs like boat frames and laminations of ply wood because it'scheap forthe job it does and works well and holds up.About 4 years back I made a clinker glued lap dingy using only Cascomiteforuse as my boat tender. It lives uncovered and chained to a tree on theriverbank inshore from my boat and has survived being towed more than1000 milesandwhat ever the local kids have done to it all that time. I shouldn't talkaboutit though because I'm bound to find some kid has jumped through it nexttime Isee it.About the only jobs I wouldn't do with it is make spars or scarfs ontimberthat will be permanently submerged. It's prob be fine as the glue forsparsbutit sets up too quickly. As far as making rods with it goes the only possible hasle I can see withit isit has a relatively short pot life so sets up reasonably quickly and as farasI know there is no way of retarding the rate apart from keeping the potyoumixit in in a dish of cold water.So if you use it make sure you're well prepared and have the bindingfinishedas quickly as possible. Tony At 12:50 PM 11/9/00 +0200, Iis wrote: Hi I have been told to use a glue type called Cascamite to glue my strippestogether. Has any one out there ever used Cascamite before and if sowithwhat results?. and havepicked valueble information that is not available in SA Kind regards Ian GornallSouth Africa /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. "- Tom Clancy /*************************************************************************/ from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Thu Nov 9 14:44:48 2000 eA9KikG02010 ;Thu, 9 Nov 2000 20:44:44 +0000 Subject: Re: finish for blued/blackened metal I use a product called Teflon/Moly from Brownells, Inc which is a matteblack oven cure gun finish and works very well for me. The finish has to bebaked when dry for 30min @ 300* for tough finish. Jack ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: finish for blued/blackened metal I've also seen that product at the two big national home center chains(the orange one and the blue one.... no commercial interest, yadda,yadda...) LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: Grayson,I use a product called Stay-Bright. This is aclearcoating made for metal (Brass lamps, beds,etc.) It dries hardand also has a UV protection in it, which will help the oxidizedfinish from fading over time from the sunlight. You can purchaseStay-Bright from most wood working catalogs. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Thu Nov 9 14:49:21 2000 eA9KnLG02305 ;Thu, 9 Nov 2000 20:49:18 +0000 Subject: Re: scraping planes I sharpen blade at the same angle as it comes from Lie and use theirsuggested angle to address the work however I turn the edge of the bladeafter sharpening as you would a scraper blade. Seems to work very well. Jack ----- Original Message ----- Subject: scraping planes rodmaker friends - We just bought a Lie-Nielsen small scraper plane, and Ihave a couple of questions to you who have them. 1. What angle you honetheblades? Do you use the same angle as the Stanley 9 1/2 ? (which is whatwehave been using). 2. What angle do you use when you insert the blade.Their directions say 5-10 degrees forward of vertical. Thanks for anyhelpyou can give us. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Nov 9 19:36:41 2000 eAA1aeG10950 Subject: RE: Enamel and sharp hexagons mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Patrick,This is in reply to an old post but, it seems to me that when we are comparing drop in strength after filing as much as .050" on the enamel side of a strip it should be compared to a strip planed normally to the same dimensions (out of the same culm, if possible). If not then the test is meaningless. I have filed the outside of a number of glued sticks when, say, an 8' is too slow and I take it down to a 7 1/2'. All of the rods were excellent casters and sold well.Regards,Hank. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Nov 9 20:32:41 2000 eAA2WfG11887 VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) 9 Nov 2000 21:32:43 -0500 Subject: Smithwick Beveller I'm considering building a beveller based on Tom Smithwick's plans in Bestof the Planing Form. Has anyone on this list built this? Has anyone seen itin operation? If so, what are your overall impressions of the quality ofstips this design produces. Many thanks, Richard from bluefin_1999@yahoo.com Thu Nov 9 23:06:47 2000 eAA56kG14540 2000 21:06:44 PST Subject: Re: Presidential Election WE NEED TO HAVE SOMEONE MODERATE THIS NEWSGROUPGENTLEMAN......THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION HAS NOTHINGTO DO WITH CANE ROD BUILDING. TIA --- brian sturrock wrote: now that Hillary has been elected does that meanthat SHE get's Bill'scigar????? __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.http://shopping.yahoo.com/ from piscator@macatawa.org Thu Nov 9 23:21:13 2000 eAA5LCG14916 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Presidential Election Brian, Please. There's no need to shout! Your point has been made by others. Butbe real, this is a highly emotional time and no one complains when wecelebrate Christmas, Thanksgiving and New Years Day. Politics is how wehumans integrate society and individuality, surely you see how that relatesto rodbuilding and all of us? Brian from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Nov 10 03:31:12 2000 eAA9V5G17613 Subject: Re: Glue I had to make a short section today to use a scarfed section of a tiprepair and decided to use Cascomite because I have some and thought itwould be interesting to actually use it and see how it goes.Because you mix it with water giving an exact pot life is tricky becausethe thicker it is the shorter the life but I mix it so it's got theconsistency of un cut varnish.Today it was 78 f at the time I used it and the pot life was about 35mins.One thing I've noticed in the past and as it seems especially so during thebinding stage is it tends to set up faster if it gets worked, like if youmix it continuously and also during the binding stage. I found it becomesalmost unworkably tacky very quickly as I was binding the section by hand.Anyhow, as has been said by Pail it does work and if you're the type wholikes to get a rod finished as soon as possible it may be a very goodchoice but I would suggest there are better glues to use because they allowa longer working time. Tony At 07:27 PM 11/9/00 +0000, paul.blakley wrote:Cascomite was THE GLUE used by the old UK firms such as Hardy,Allcocksetc etc.....it is a proven rod building adhesive !I use it on my blond rods with resorcinol on my flamed.Most of the UKrod builders now use Aerolite 308 including for example Partridge ofRedditch.Cascomite has three problem areas to note;1) It has a short pot life as Tony pointed out.You therefore have towork fast and I would recommend one mix per rod section./*********** Snip ****************************************//*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. " - Tom Clancy /*************************************************************************/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Nov 10 04:44:04 2000 eAAAi1G18127 eAAAhpx42795; Subject: Re: scraping planes Organization: vet I sharpen my Lie-Nielsen blade at the same angle I use for my Hocks and myHSS blades for the Record and the Stanley (both 9 1/2 models). That isabout30 degrees. I don't know exactly whether or not that is the best angle,but it means Ican use the same jig setting block, which minimises confusion, and that hasto be worth a lot. Heaven knows how you are supposed to measure the angle of forward tilt onthese things; I mean, you feel a right nit with the thing held up against aprotractor while you try to squint at the calibration marks. So what I do isangle it forward until the forward lean is sort of obvious; and now that youhave rattled my cage I suppose I will have to go and do the cross-eyed thingand find out or I won't be able to get it out of my head........ There, it'sabout 8 - 10 degrees! I use this plane a lot. Many would say that I use it too much. I set theblade depth by sitting it on a piece of plate glass and resting the tip on acigarette paper folded in half. And no, I am NOT bloody well walking down tothe shed again to measure how thick that is; but it gives a very fine andconsistent shaving with no chatter or roughness. I smooth the nodes on theenamel surface with it before I start final planing, and I use it to getmyself out of trouble with any nodes that tend to vanish during planing (Isay "vanish" because I refuse to admit that I chip nodes ); I also use it totidy up any strips that are just a whisker oversize, but where I am not gameto take another pass with the block plane, and the plane is cutting so verywell that I am not even going to think about re-setting it thank you verymuch! I think it is very, very important that you only make FORWARD passes withthis tool. That is also true for block planes, but seems even more critical my thumb to serve as a little reminder of this little piece of wisdom. Hope that this is useful. Peter PS I have been up and down those front steps tonight more times than aone-armed paper hanger on a pogo stick - and a Tally Ho cigarette paperfolded double mikes out at .0022" just in case anybody is still with mehere.----- Original Message ----- Subject: scraping planes rodmaker friends - We just bought a Lie-Nielsen small scraper plane, and Ihave a couple of questions to you who have them. 1. What angle you honetheblades? Do you use the same angle as the Stanley 9 1/2 ? (which is whatwehave been using). 2. What angle do you use when you insert the blade.Their directions say 5-10 degrees forward of vertical. Thanks for anyhelpyou can give us. from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 10 06:16:45 2000 eAACGjG18832 +0000 Subject: Lathes again Does anyone have an opinion on the Lathe offered by Grizzly imports for$495? It is a 7" x 12", which should work fine for reel seats andhandles. Will it do quality metal work? TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Nov 10 08:08:07 2000 eAAE86G19988 GAA00150 (5.5.2650.21) rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu, mcdowellc@lanecc.edu,"'FISHWOOL@aol.com'" Subject: RE: Enamel and sharp hexagons the test that Bob did were using strips from the same culm and from thesame area of the culm. His findings are due to be published sometime thisyear. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 5:36 PM mcdowellc@lanecc.eduSubject: Re: RE: Enamel and sharp hexagons Patrick,This is in reply to an old post but, it seems to me that when we are comparing drop in strength after filing as much as .050" on the enamelside of a strip it should be compared to a strip planed normally to the same dimensions (out of the same culm, if possible). If not then the test is meaningless. I have filed the outside of a number of glued sticks when, say, an 8' is too slow and I take it down to a 7 1/2'. All of the rods were excellent casters and sold well.Regards,Hank. from caneman@clnk.com Fri Nov 10 08:20:48 2000 eAAEKkG20450 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: scraping planes Peter,I like the cigarette paper method. Reminds me of the days when Harleyshad Points type ignitions and we set the gap in them with Business cards.*S* Well, it worked!My LN scraper blade is sharpened at 45 degrees, and set "a little bit"forward. Never measured how much, just fiddled with it til it scrapedsmoothly. Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: scraping planes I sharpen my Lie-Nielsen blade at the same angle I use for my Hocks and myHSS blades for the Record and the Stanley (both 9 1/2 models). That isabout30 degrees. I don't know exactly whether or not that is the best angle,but it means Ican use the same jig setting block, which minimises confusion, and thathasto be worth a lot. Heaven knows how you are supposed to measure the angle of forward tiltonthese things; I mean, you feel a right nit with the thing held up against aprotractor while you try to squint at the calibration marks. So what I doisangle it forward until the forward lean is sort of obvious; and now thatyouhave rattled my cage I suppose I will have to go and do the cross- eyedthingand find out or I won't be able to get it out of my head........ There,it'sabout 8 - 10 degrees! I use this plane a lot. Many would say that I use it too much. I set theblade depth by sitting it on a piece of plate glass and resting the tip onacigarette paper folded in half. And no, I am NOT bloody well walking downtothe shed again to measure how thick that is; but it gives a very fine andconsistent shaving with no chatter or roughness. I smooth the nodes on theenamel surface with it before I start final planing, and I use it to getmyself out of trouble with any nodes that tend to vanish during planing (Isay "vanish" because I refuse to admit that I chip nodes ); I also use ittotidy up any strips that are just a whisker oversize, but where I am notgameto take another pass with the block plane, and the plane is cutting so verywell that I am not even going to think about re-setting it thank you verymuch! I think it is very, very important that you only make FORWARD passes withthis tool. That is also true for block planes, but seems even more critical my thumb to serve as a little reminder of this little piece of wisdom. Hope that this is useful. Peter PS I have been up and down those front steps tonight more times than aone-armed paper hanger on a pogo stick - and a Tally Ho cigarette paperfolded double mikes out at .0022" just in case anybody is still with mehere.----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 3:50 AMSubject: scraping planes rodmaker friends - We just bought a Lie-Nielsen small scraper plane, andIhave a couple of questions to you who have them. 1. What angle youhonetheblades? Do you use the same angle as the Stanley 9 1/2 ? (which is whatwehave been using). 2. What angle do you use when you insert the blade.Their directions say 5-10 degrees forward of vertical. Thanks for anyhelpyou can give us. from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Nov 10 08:44:42 2000 eAAEieG21342 Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:44:41 +0100 "Rodmakers" Subject: Sv: Presidential Election The End eAAEifG21343 I do not like to do this, but feel I must:Please remember that this list is not solely for US citizens -there are quite a few members from other countries in the world:Australia, Germany, NZ, Denmark, Norway Sweden, Japan, SpainEngland and more. Being a citizen of Denmark I must admit that presidential electionsare not on the top of my agenda, be they danish, american or in anothercountry. On behalf of those who can spend their time on more interestingthings than politics, Rodmaking perhaps? could we please rest this subjectand revert to rodmaking, grits or what have You. Thank You for rading this regards,carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Presidential Election Brian, Please. There's no need to shout! Your point has been made by others. Butbe real, this is a highly emotional time and no one complains when wecelebrate Christmas, Thanksgiving and New Years Day. Politics is how wehumans integrate society and individuality, surely you see how that relatesto rodbuilding and all of us? Brian from caneman@clnk.com Fri Nov 10 09:12:24 2000 eAAFCNG22404 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Presidential Election The End Carsten,I am American, but I could not agree with you more. I can't even watch"Judge Judy" on TV without the network interrupting to tell me that it'sstill a "close race". I'm getting a little tired of hearing about thepresidential election on every channel on TV, then I come in here to myrefuge from the world and find it on the Rodmakers list.However... it has got me thinking. I believe I'll build a new model ofrod called the "Politician"... This rod will make all kinds of noise andracket, will be slower than any rod ever made. It will never, ever, underany circumstances, do what it's supposed to, when you try to cast itstraight, the loop will become very open and lumbering and will take it'sown initiative to curve cast around things you wanted to cast to... AND itwill always cause arguments between any two seemingly intellegent andeducated men that start to discuss it's qualities and/or shortcomings.Now, I'm going back to Judge Judy! later,Bob-----Original Message----- bluefin_1999@yahoo.com; briansr@point-net.com ;Rodmakers Subject: Sv: Presidential Election The End I do not like to do this, but feel I must:Please remember that this list is not solely for US citizens -there are quite a few members from other countries in the world:Australia, Germany, NZ, Denmark, Norway Sweden, Japan, SpainEngland and more. Being a citizen of Denmark I must admit that presidential electionsare not on the top of my agenda, be they danish, american or in anothercountry. On behalf of those who can spend their time on more interestingthings than politics, Rodmaking perhaps? could we please rest this subjectand revert to rodmaking, grits or what have You. Thank You for rading this regards,carsten ----- Original Message -----From: Brian Creek Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 6:24 AMSubject: Re: Presidential Election Brian, Please. There's no need to shout! Your point has been made by others.Butbe real, this is a highly emotional time and no one complains when wecelebrate Christmas, Thanksgiving and New Years Day. Politics is how wehumans integrate society and individuality, surely you see how thatrelatesto rodbuilding and all of us? Brian from teekay35@interlynx.net Fri Nov 10 09:44:53 2000 eAAFiqG23764 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: scraping planes I use my Lie Nielsen scraper with the angle it came with. Touch up theedge once and a while with the same "scary sharp" set-up that I use tosharpen the plane blades. To reset the scraper blade I hold the blade andplane body firmly down on a flat surface, while tightening the holdingscrew. The slight rotation of the blade advances the scraping edge enoughto get fine shavings. I find that using paper shims under the toe of theplane gives me too much advance on the blade; ie, too thick a shaving. ----------From: Bob Nunley Subject: Re: scraping planesDate: Friday, November 10, 2000 9:14 AM Peter,I like the cigarette paper method. Reminds me of the days whenHarleyshad Points type ignitions and we set the gap in them with Business cards.*S* Well, it worked!My LN scraper blade is sharpened at 45 degrees, and set "a littlebit"forward. Never measured how much, just fiddled with it til it scrapedsmoothly. Bob-----Original Message-----From: petermckean Cc: 'RODMAKERS' Date: Friday, November 10, 2000 4:37 AMSubject: Re: scraping planes I sharpen my Lie-Nielsen blade at the same angle I use for my Hocks andmyHSS blades for the Record and the Stanley (both 9 1/2 models). That isabout30 degrees. I don't know exactly whether or not that is the best angle,but it meansIcan use the same jig setting block, which minimises confusion, and thathasto be worth a lot. Heaven knows how you are supposed to measure the angle of forward tiltonthese things; I mean, you feel a right nit with the thing held upagainst aprotractor while you try to squint at the calibration marks. So what Idoisangle it forward until the forward lean is sort of obvious; and now thatyouhave rattled my cage I suppose I will have to go and do the cross- eyedthingand find out or I won't be able to get it out of my head........ There,it'sabout 8 - 10 degrees! I use this plane a lot. Many would say that I use it too much. I set theblade depth by sitting it on a piece of plate glass and resting the tiponacigarette paper folded in half. And no, I am NOT bloody well walkingdowntothe shed again to measure how thick that is; but it gives a very fineandconsistent shaving with no chatter or roughness. I smooth the nodes ontheenamel surface with it before I start final planing, and I use it to getmyself out of trouble with any nodes that tend to vanish during planing(Isay "vanish" because I refuse to admit that I chip nodes ); I also useittotidy up any strips that are just a whisker oversize, but where I am notgameto take another pass with the block plane, and the plane is cutting soverywell that I am not even going to think about re-setting it thank youverymuch! I think it is very, very important that you only make FORWARD passeswiththis tool. That is also true for block planes, but seems even morecritical ofmy thumb to serve as a little reminder of this little piece of wisdom. Hope that this is useful. Peter PS I have been up and down those front steps tonight more times than aone-armed paper hanger on a pogo stick - and a Tally Ho cigarette paperfolded double mikes out at .0022" just in case anybody is still with mehere.----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 3:50 AMSubject: scraping planes rodmaker friends - We just bought a Lie-Nielsen small scraper plane,andIhave a couple of questions to you who have them. 1. What angle youhonetheblades? Do you use the same angle as the Stanley 9 1/2 ? (which iswhatwehave been using). 2. What angle do you use when you insert theblade.Their directions say 5-10 degrees forward of vertical. Thanks for anyhelpyou can give us. from skokan@teknetwork.com Fri Nov 10 10:02:09 2000 eAAG28G24312 Subject: Heat Treating This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C04AFD.C22415E0 Please excuse a newbie question, but I'm willing to try anything to get =the election off this list. I've built a heat gun oven from 6" snap =together ducts with 4" duct as the heat chamber and am having some =difficulty finding thermometers. I tested it with a standard glass =candy thermometer and was able to get it to 375 and hold it there by =adjusting the gun. The thermometer was clipped to the top of the 4" =section and the probe was about 6" inside the chamber. Is this =sufficient or do I need to install thermometers to monitor the temp in =the entire heat chamber. Suggestions on what type of thermometers and =sources would also be appreciated. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C04AFD.C22415E0 Please excuse a newbie question,but = oven from 6" snap together ducts with 4" duct as the heat = standard glass candy thermometer and was able to get it to 375 and hold = 4" section and the probe was about 6" inside the = this sufficient or do I need to install thermometers to monitor the temp = = would also be appreciated.Dean = ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C04AFD.C22415E0-- from grau@buchlang.com Fri Nov 10 10:04:23 2000 eAAG49G24484 (MET) Organization: Lang Info Access Subject: Presidential Election - Vote for Garrison! Vote for Garrison, cause: less taxes, more tapersless smoking people, cause it is forbidden to smoke in a workshop ( it`sis also forbidden for Monica)more satisfiait teenagers, cause they have a new hobby, they build a rod people lerns love nature, especially bamboo Garrison - your candidate for Presidential Election 2004 *gg* Stefan --Stefan GrauLang InfoAccessDatenbanken/Multimedia-Internet-EDV- AusbildungenMuenzgraben 2-43000 Bern 9 Lang InfoAccess ist eine Gesch€ftseinheitIhrer Buchhandlung Lang - ein Unternehmen derHogrefe-Huber Gruppe. Mehr Infos unter:http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/http://www.buchlang.com/kurse/http://www.hogrefe.de/verlag/gruppe.html Tel: (0041)(0)31 310 84 84Fax: (0)31 310 84 91Mo-Sa, ausgenommen Mittwoch. Disclaimer: Saemtliche mit diesem Mail versandten Informationensind fèr den/die Empf€nger/in bestimmt, welche/r in der Adresszeileaufgefèhrtwird. Sollten Sie aus irgendwelchen Grènden nicht mit diesen Adressatenèbereinstimmen,so bitten wir Sie um Bekanntgabe. Zudem ist dieses Mail umgehend zulåschen.S€mtliche in diesem Mail enthaltenen Informationen unterliegen imUebrigenSchweizerischem Datenschutzrecht.____ The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. This e-mail is intended only for the stated addressee. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy, circulate or in any other way use or rely ontheinformation contained in this e-mail. If you have received this e- mailinerror, please inform us immediately and delete it and all copies fromyoursystem. from caneman@clnk.com Fri Nov 10 10:14:05 2000 eAAGE4G24823 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Heat Treating This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03E6_01C04AFE.04567F20 Dean,Your heat treating oven sounds to be built much like mine. I have =three thermometers in the length of the inner duct and I think you'll =find that if you do this, you'll see a temperature differential for 30 =minutes or so that will even out over time, but that depends on your =exact design. Try the three thermometers to be sure. Later,Bob-----Original Message-----From: Dean Skokan Date: Friday, November 10, 2000 9:57 AMSubject: Heat Treating Please excuse a newbie question, but I'm willing to try anything to =get the election off this list. I've built a heat gun oven from 6" snap =together ducts with 4" duct as the heat chamber and am having some =difficulty finding thermometers. I tested it with a standard glass =candy thermometer and was able to get it to 375 and hold it there by =adjusting the gun. The thermometer was clipped to the top of the 4" =section and the probe was about 6" inside the chamber. Is this =sufficient or do I need to install thermometers to monitor the temp in =the entire heat chamber. Suggestions on what type of thermometers and =sources would also be appreciated. ------=_NextPart_000_03E6_01C04AFE.04567F20 Dean, in the length of the inner duct and I think you'll find that if you do = you'll see a temperature differential for 30 minutes or so that will = thermometers to be sure. Later,Bob -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= TreatingPlease excuse a newbiequestion, = a heat gun oven from 6" snap together ducts with 4" duct = heat chamber and am having some difficulty finding = tested it with a standard glass candy thermometer and was able to = clipped to the top of the 4" section and the probe was about = appreciated. ------=_NextPart_000_03E6_01C04AFE.04567F20-- from if6were9@bellsouth.net Fri Nov 10 11:20:08 2000 eAAHK7G27244 Subject: Re: Lathes again --------------852577546159DCD6290D764A Steve Here are a couple of links that should answer any questions you haveregarding the lathe in question. Hope this helps. Varmint Al's Mini Lathe Page eGroups : 7x10minilathe Good luck and good hunting Pat Steve Trauthwein wrote: Does anyone have an opinion on the Lathe offered by Grizzly imports for$495? It is a 7" x 12", which should work fine for reel seats andhandles. Will it do quality metal work? TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO --------------852577546159DCD6290D764A SteveHere are a couple of links that should answer any questions you have Al'sMini Lathe Page :7x10minilatheGood luck and good huntingPatSteve Trauthwein wrote:Does anyone have an opinion on the Lathe offered $495? It is a 7" x 12", which should work fine for reel seats and Regards, SteveIndependence, MO --------------852577546159DCD6290D764A-- from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Fri Nov 10 11:26:46 2000 eAAHQjG27641 fwd04.sul.t-online.com Subject: Winding check / Blackening Ferrules Hello everybody, I got two "small" problems: - I'm building a Paul Young Midge and I was wandering whether you put awinding check on it or not. Does the original rod have one and if yes,what are the dimensions? - I tried to blacken / blue my ferrules with Perma Blue by BirchwoodCasey. I followed Wayne Cattanach's instruction: I first polished theferrule, degreased it in denaturated alcohol and let it sit in the PermaBlue Solution for about 1 minute. It actually turned black, but aftertaking the ferrule out and rinsing it with water, most of the blackcoating came of. There were also black flakes left in the Perma Bluesolution. The surface of the ferrule wasn't smooth any more, it kind ofleft an antique look on it with a few black spots. Does anybody knowthe reason for that? What is my mistake? Maybe Tony Young can help meout, since I ordered the ferrules from him (is it a (ferrule-)materialproblem?) Need your help Ralf from Germany from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Nov 10 11:40:49 2000 eAAHenG28177 Fri, 10 Nov 2000 17:45:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Winding check / Blackening Ferrules The original Midge was dubbed "Little Ike" by Paul, since he built one forthe then President ! It has no winding check, and an aluminum ferrule ! Ican send you a photo, if you like. GMA from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Fri Nov 10 11:43:43 2000 eAAHhgG28396 fwd04.sul.t-online.com Fri, 10 Nov 2000 18:55:36 +0100 Subject: Re: Winding check / Blackening Ferrules Hi Nobler, it would be really kind of you to send me that photo! Thank you Ralf nobler schrieb: The original Midge was dubbed "Little Ike" by Paul, since he built one forthe then President ! It has no winding check, and an aluminum ferrule ! Ican send you a photo, if you like. GMA from zimmer@adams.net Fri Nov 10 11:48:12 2000 eAAHmBG28649 0000 (qmailr@216.138.0.16) Subject: Re: Bob Nunley's new rod "The Politician" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C04B0C.2F6DF540 I love it ! Will you please post the taper in the taper archives? Maybe =then this subject will fade from memory and be lost from the discussion =thread. Hopefully?:) :) ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C04B0C.2F6DF540 I love it ! Will you please post the taper in the = archives? Maybe then this subject will fade from memory and be lost from = discussion thread. Hopefully?:) :) ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C04B0C.2F6DF540-- from bob@downandacross.com Fri Nov 10 12:51:45 2000 eAAIpjG00905 Subject: Re: Heat Treating I have holes in my duct so I can check at different areas if I wish. I have a Timex thermometer that comes with a clock and was $20 at the localTarget store. Works nicely, and has an alarm and all.Bob At 10:05 AM 11/10/00 -0600, Dean Skokan wrote:Please excuse a newbie question, but I'm willing to try anything to get the election off this list. I've built a heat gun oven from 6" snap together ducts with 4" duct as the heat chamber and am having some difficulty finding thermometers. I tested it with a standard glass candy thermometer and was able to get it to 375 and hold it there by adjusting the gun. The thermometer was clipped to the top of the 4" section and the probe was about 6" inside the chamber. Is this sufficient or do I need to install thermometers to monitor the temp in the entire heat chamber. Suggestions on what type of thermometers and sources wouldalso be appreciated.Dean Skokan from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Fri Nov 10 13:30:22 2000 eAAJULG02412 Fri, 10 Nov 2000 19:30:18 +0000 Subject: Re: Glue Tony,78F in Oz , how I wish my great great great......grandfather had stolena loaf of bread.....I too could be living in Oz......nah I would have todrink Fosters all the time.....I digress !Until quite recently I too used to bind by hand and even in our cold,wet climate cascomite sets quickly.The method I use to slow down thesetting time is to mix the cascomite to the consistency of 'singlecream'and put the mixing receptacle in a bowl of iced water.Even withthis method I still use one mix per section i.e one mix for say a topsection and another mix for a butt section.With reference to better glues being available I would agree totally.ButCascomite is readilly available from almost any ironmongers/DIY storeand it is also available in small quantities at modest cost.Iam now going for a proper beer........Regards.......Paul Tony Young wrote: I had to make a short section today to use a scarfed section of a tiprepair and decided to use Cascomite because I have some and thought itwould be interesting to actually use it and see how it goes.Because you mix it with water giving an exact pot life is tricky becausethe thicker it is the shorter the life but I mix it so it's got theconsistency of un cut varnish.Today it was 78 f at the time I used it and the pot life was about 35mins.One thing I've noticed in the past and as it seems especially so during thebinding stage is it tends to set up faster if it gets worked, like if youmix it continuously and also during the binding stage. I found it becomesalmost unworkably tacky very quickly as I was binding the section by hand.Anyhow, as has been said by Pail it does work and if you're the type wholikes to get a rod finished as soon as possible it may be a very goodchoice but I would suggest there are better glues to use because they allowa longer working time. Tony At 07:27 PM 11/9/00 +0000, paul.blakley wrote:Cascomite was THE GLUE used by the old UK firms such as Hardy,Allcocksetc etc.....it is a proven rod building adhesive !I use it on my blond rods with resorcinol on my flamed.Most of the UKrod builders now use Aerolite 308 including for example Partridge ofRedditch.Cascomite has three problem areas to note;1) It has a short pot life as Tony pointed out.You therefore have towork fast and I would recommend one mix per rod section./*********** Snip ****************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. "- Tom Clancy /*************************************************************************/ from anglport@con2.com Fri Nov 10 14:43:36 2000 eAAKhZG04935 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Presidential Election surely you see how that relatesto rodbuilding and all of us? Brian Uh.... no....Art from dannyt@frisurf.no Fri Nov 10 15:32:48 2000 eAALWlG06593 Fri, 10 Nov 2000 22:32:43 +0100 (MET)User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Re: Winding check / Blackening Ferrules Ralf, I too get my ferrules from Tony, great stuff he makes, nice price too. I blacken my ferrules in photofixer with no problem.Had the same experience when I tried to blacken brass with GunBlue.But have ordered a bottle of BrassBlack from Birchwood Casy........ Try the fixer method, just follow the procedure as You did, but use a ragdamped in fixer to apply..... best regardsdanny From: Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de (Ralf Ladda) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 18:21:06 +0100 Subject: Winding check / Blackening Ferrules Hello everybody, I got two "small" problems: - I'm building a Paul Young Midge and I was wandering whether you put awinding check on it or not. Does the original rod have one and if yes,what are the dimensions? - I tried to blacken / blue my ferrules with Perma Blue by BirchwoodCasey. I followed Wayne Cattanach's instruction: I first polished theferrule, degreased it in denaturated alcohol and let it sit in the PermaBlue Solution for about 1 minute. It actually turned black, but aftertaking the ferrule out and rinsing it with water, most of the blackcoating came of. There were also black flakes left in the Perma Bluesolution. The surface of the ferrule wasn't smooth any more, it kind ofleft an antique look on it with a few black spots. Does anybody knowthe reason for that? What is my mistake? Maybe Tony Young can help meout, since I ordered the ferrules from him (is it a (ferrule-)materialproblem?) Need your help Ralf from Germany from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Nov 10 15:54:39 2000 eAALsPG07399 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Winding check / Blackening Ferrules Liste Forget the photo... you can just send me the rod, please? 8^) Okay... I'll take the photo! Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Winding check / Blackening Ferrules The original Midge was dubbed "Little Ike" by Paul, since he built one forthe then President ! It has no winding check, and an aluminum ferrule ! Ican send you a photo, if you like. GMA from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Nov 10 17:38:58 2000 eAANcwG11218 Subject: Re: Lathes again In a message dated 11/10/2000 7:17:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, saltwein@worldnet.att.net writes: Steve,I just had a newbie rod builder bring one of those lathesto my shop for me to check it out for him. I was very impressedwith the accuracy of the three jaw chuck that came with it. Ithought it wouldn't be very good, but after checking it out witha dial indicator, the run out was .000in. Most lathes that I'vechecked, new and used, a three jaw chuck would usually givea runout of .002 to .005 in. . He wants to make ferrules andreel seats with his. After checking the lathe over completely, Isee no reason why he shouldn't have very good luck with it. On my used South Bend lathe, in order to get that accuracy,I bought a $1,200.00 six jaw, adjustable chuck. The only otherway is to use collets. The only problem I can see with this small lathe, is that themotor may not have enough power, when turning 3/4 or 7/8 in.bar stock for reel seats. You will have to take lighter cuts thanI would with my South Bend 9in. Tool Room Lathe. Otherwise,I think it should work out for you. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from bjust@bellsouth.net Fri Nov 10 17:50:34 2000 eAANoXG11639 Subject: Re: Winding check / Blackening Ferrules Try swabbing it on with a Q-Tip while holding the ferrule with atoothpick. As soon as it turns black rinse it with cold water. Try toget a quick even coat or you will get a spotty finish. If you mess up,just take the blueing back off with a fine steel wool or 1500 grit sandpaper. I got the same results as you when I put the ferrule in thesolution. Brian Justiss from dnorl@uswest.net Fri Nov 10 18:44:52 2000 eAB0iqG12514 0000 (63.228.5.155) " " Subject: Re: Heat Treating I use a candy thermometer in three places through holes drilled in the duct.I just leave them in place during the entire operation and monitor tempcontinually. They have a thin metal probe and are 5 bucks at the hardwarestore.Dave-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Heat Treating I have holes in my duct so I can check at different areas if I wish. I havea Timex thermometer that comes with a clock and was $20 at the localTargetstore. Works nicely, and has an alarm and all.Bob At 10:05 AM 11/10/00 -0600, Dean Skokan wrote:Please excuse a newbie question, but I'm willing to try anything to getthe election off this list. I've built a heat gun oven from 6" snaptogether ducts with 4" duct as the heat chamber and am having somedifficulty finding thermometers. I tested it with a standard glass candythermometer and was able to get it to 375 and hold it there by adjustingthe gun. The thermometer was clipped to the top of the 4" section andtheprobe was about 6" inside the chamber. Is this sufficient or do I need toinstall thermometers to monitor the temp in the entire heatchamber. Suggestions on what type of thermometers and sources wouldalsobe appreciated.Dean Skokan from dnorl@uswest.net Fri Nov 10 18:46:06 2000 eAB0k5G12627 0000 (63.228.5.155) Subject: Re: Grooved Planes They have in the past given any depth groove you want.Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: Grooved Planes I recently tried to order a Lie-Nielsen Block Plane with the .005 rodmakers groove. They told me they have changed the groove to .003deep. Does anyone on the list know why they changed the depth? TheirE-mail to me stated they have done this by popular demand from thebuyers,".003 is the medium where they cover the needs of most". Does .003 workbetter, is this still an advantage over the flat sole?Thanks in advance. Bob McElvain from eharrison241@earthlink.net Fri Nov 10 19:00:34 2000 eAB10XG12920 RAA28060 Subject: Re: Grooved Planes Why not take a regular plane and glue shim stock to the bottom? You canmake itany depth you want.Ernie ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Grooved Planes They have in the past given any depth groove you want.Dave-----Original Message-----From: Bob McElvain Date: Monday, November 06, 2000 7:46 PMSubject: Grooved Planes I recently tried to order a Lie-Nielsen Block Plane with the .005 rodmakers groove. They told me they have changed the groove to .003deep. Does anyone on the list know why they changed the depth? TheirE-mail to me stated they have done this by popular demand from thebuyers,".003 is the medium where they cover the needs of most". Does .003workbetter, is this still an advantage over the flat sole?Thanks in advance. Bob McElvain from freaner@home.com Fri Nov 10 19:22:16 2000 eAB1MGG13434 0800 Subject: Shim stock glued to plane sole... Since planes seem to me to work better (cut more smoothly) when held at a slight (10-20 degree angle) to the work, would it be better to put shim stock on the plane sole like this:______________| || shim ||\ stock /|| \ glued / || \ here / || \ / || \ / || \__/ || || ||==============|| || || || || || || __ || / \ || / \ || / \ || / \ || / shim \ ||/ stock \|| glued || here || || ||______________| instead of like this? ______________| | | || s | | s || h | | h || i | | i || m | | m || | | || | | || | | ||==============|| | | || | | || | | || | | || | | || | | || | | || | | || | | || | | || | | || | | || | | ||___|______|___| The first one should allow (require) the plane blade be held at an angle while planing so the blade would slice the cane instead of just plowing through it...or would this not matter? Claude from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Nov 10 19:40:36 2000 eAB1eZG13717 Subject: Crushed tip tops Friends,One of my rods came back to me for repairs today with anew (to me) problem. Both tip tops have been crushed sothat no longer is there apear shape or an "O" at the end.Now it's more like a barely hollow slit. Looks like yousqueezed the rings with a pair of pliers, directly in linewith the casting plane. I guess they could have beenstepped on.No problem to repair them by replacing with newtiptops. But does anyone have any idea how this could havehappened? I'd like to prevent it without actually accusingthe guy of stepping on the rod Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Nov 10 20:03:06 2000 eAB236G14184 Subject: Re: Crushed tip tops Sounds to me like he stepped on them or ran over them with hiscar? I've had guys bring in cane rods that they forgot were leaningagainst the car and they ran over them, after they fell on the ground! The possibilities are endless!! Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from canazon@mindspring.com Fri Nov 10 20:03:35 2000 eAB23YG14262 Subject: presidential election the end This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0124_01C04B59.3423AE20 the scenery is great, all those big palm trees!!but ttheese guys ain't fisherpeople. and they don't do bamboo! =looky here, now . i got me a new, used form, not forum, that i need help = riding the bus, miike ------=_NextPart_000_0124_01C04B59.3423AE20 to all, is = those big palm trees!! guys = new, used form, not forum, that i need help with. i really wanted to = get me some fuel for the people riding the bus, miike ------=_NextPart_000_0124_01C04B59.3423AE20-- from rmoon@ida.net Fri Nov 10 20:09:14 2000 eAB29CG14444 0000 Subject: Re: Crushed tip tops Accuse him Harry. Abuse is abuse!Ralph from bassmeister_2000@yahoo.com Fri Nov 10 20:31:33 2000 eAB2VWG14993 18:31:26 PST Subject: Re: Crushed tip tops --- Harry Boyd wrote:Friends,One of my rods came back to me for repairs today with aBut does anyone have any idea how this could havehappened? Sounds like the two tips were only in the bag and not the casewhen they got stepped on or squashed. Look close at the buttsection and ferrule (I'm assuming it's 2 pc 2 tips) and makesure there is no damage to the reel seat or female ferrule. Best,Joe =====Joe MulveyStoneham, MAhttp://people.ne.mediaone.net/mgag1/index.htmwww.mulvey4.eboard.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.http://shopping.yahoo.com/ from bassmeister_2000@yahoo.com Fri Nov 10 20:37:37 2000 eAB2baG15219 18:37:34 PST Subject: Re: Crushed tip tops Hmmm. On second thought, maybe the tips weren't the only things"in the bag" 8-). --- Harry Boyd wrote:Friends,One of my rods came back to me for repairs today with aBut does anyone have any idea how this could havehappened? Sounds like the two tips were only in the bag and not the casewhen they got stepped on or squashed. Look close at the buttsection and ferrule (I'm assuming it's 2 pc 2 tips) and makesure there is no damage to the reel seat or female ferrule. =====Joe MulveyStoneham, MAhttp://people.ne.mediaone.net/mgag1/index.htmwww.mulvey4.eboard.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.http://shopping.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Nov 10 21:02:28 2000 eAB32RG15700 19:02:29 PST Subject: Re: Crushed tip tops harry, what was the guys story? did he tell you theybent by themselves? squinty tiptop eyes might makebetter target shooters. did he say i don't know whathappen so it must be faulty construction? most bustedrod stories i've ever heard start with, "me and mybuddies were having a couple of beers and ......". just curious. timothy --- Harry Boyd wrote:Friends,One of my rods came back to me for repairs todaywith anew (to me) problem. Both tip tops have beencrushed sothat no longer is there apear shape or an "O" at theend.Now it's more like a barely hollow slit. Looks likeyousqueezed the rings with a pair of pliers, directlyin linewith the casting plane. I guess they could havebeenstepped on.No problem to repair them by replacing with newtiptops. But does anyone have any idea how thiscould havehappened? I'd like to prevent it without actuallyaccusingthe guy of stepping on the rod Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.http://shopping.yahoo.com/ from lblove@omniglobal.net Fri Nov 10 21:06:52 2000 eAB36qG15859 Subject: Re: Heat Treating This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0131_01C04B59.7291BC60 The Timex unit from Target is pretty good, its digital and has about a =4' lead.As Bob stated it even has a timer and a temp alarm setting which I find =reallyhandy. Its only $20 US and is very accurate( I tested mine in boiling =water andat work with the infrared gun we have) and nearly indestructible( I've =dropped minemore times then I would like to admit) Brad Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 10:05 AMSubject: Heat Treating Please excuse a newbie question, but I'm willing to try anything to =get the election off this list. I've built a heat gun oven from 6" snap =together ducts with 4" duct as the heat chamber and am having some =difficulty finding thermometers. I tested it with a standard glass =candy thermometer and was able to get it to 375 and hold it there by =adjusting the gun. The thermometer was clipped to the top of the 4" =section and the probe was about 6" inside the chamber. Is this =sufficient or do I need to install thermometers to monitor the temp in =the entire heat chamber. Suggestions on what type of thermometers and =sources would also be appreciated. ------=_NextPart_000_0131_01C04B59.7291BC60 The Timex unit from Target is pretty good, its = about a 4' lead.As Bob stated it even has a timer and a temp alarm = which I find really = mine in boiling water and indestructible( I've dropped minemore times then I would like to admit) Brad ----- Original Message ----- Skokan Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000= AMSubject: Heat Treating Please excuse a newbie question,= heat gun oven from 6" snap together ducts with 4" duct as the heat = standard glass candy thermometer and was able to get it to 375 and = sufficient or do I need to install thermometers to monitor the temp in = sources would also be appreciated. ------=_NextPart_000_0131_01C04B59.7291BC60-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Nov 10 21:07:36 2000 eAB37ZG15972 19:07:37 PST Subject: Re: Crushed tip tops harry, just tell him how much it's going to cost toreplace two tiptops. there's not going to be alot oflabor involved so your not going to break him. ifit's your head deacon tell him no charge and next timeyou'll charge him double then do the preacher smileand shake him out the door. :-) timothy --- Harry Boyd wrote:Friends,One of my rods came back to me for repairs todaywith anew (to me) problem. Both tip tops have beencrushed sothat no longer is there apear shape or an "O" at theend.Now it's more like a barely hollow slit. Looks likeyousqueezed the rings with a pair of pliers, directlyin linewith the casting plane. I guess they could havebeenstepped on.No problem to repair them by replacing with newtiptops. But does anyone have any idea how thiscould havehappened? I'd like to prevent it without actuallyaccusingthe guy of stepping on the rod Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.http://shopping.yahoo.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Nov 10 22:04:22 2000 eAB44LG16951 Fri, 10 Nov 2000 20:04:12 -0800 Subject: Re: Crushed tip tops Thanks for the "kind" advice Timothy. I'm not too worried aboutthe cost. I'll gladly replace a few tip tops in the hopes ofbuilding customer goodwill. No way would I charge him for the twotiptops and a coupla guides. In fact, I pretty well offer alifetime (my lifetime, that is) no-fault guarantee on my rods.I'm not trying to start a warranty discussion, though. It's also interesting that two guides on the mid need replacing.And the agate stripper guide came back to me in five pieces. Oneguide is broken off clean as a whistle. The other pulled loose from color preserved threads. All on a rod I delivered in lateAugust or early September. Guess I'll spend a few hours re-wrapping, and pay for anotherguide. And one day this guy will recommend my rods and my serviceto some big shot who wants to buy a dozen rods for $$$$ each.Yeah, right. It's really strange. The rod was delivered in an aluminum tube,and ferrule plugs were provided. Except the banged up guides, Ican't see any other real damage, other than normal wear and tearon a rod fished hard for two months. Come to think of it, couldbe that the rod was just kept in the bag, and something heavy wasput on top of it.... Harry timothy troester wrote: harry, just tell him how much it's going to cost toreplace two tiptops. there's not going to be alot oflabor involved so your not going to break him. ifit's your head deacon tell him no charge and next timeyou'll charge him double then do the preacher smileand shake him out the door. :-) timothy --- Harry Boyd wrote:Friends,One of my rods came back to me for repairs todaywith anew (to me) problem. Both tip tops have beencrushed sothat no longer is there apear shape or an "O" at theend.Now it's more like a barely hollow slit. Looks likeyousqueezed the rings with a pair of pliers, directlyin linewith the casting plane. I guess they could havebeenstepped on.No problem to repair them by replacing with newtiptops. But does anyone have any idea how thiscould havehappened? I'd like to prevent it without actuallyaccusingthe guy of stepping on the rod Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.http://shopping.yahoo.com/ --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Nov 10 23:12:12 2000 eAB5CAG17648 21:12:13 PST Subject: Re: Glue tony, has it a shorter pot life than resorcinol? timothy --- Tony Young wrote:Ian,if the Cascomite you mean is made by Borden of theUK and is a white powderyou ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.http://shopping.yahoo.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Nov 10 23:28:38 2000 eAB5SZG17926 Subject: Re: Winding check / Blackening Ferrules I'm currently using Ilford B&W fixer with excellent results. Kodak was theoriginal fixer suggested but it's hard to get here and the Ilford works fine.As far as the pitting of the surface goes I have no idea. I used to useDave LeClare's formula which is savage stuff and I never had surfacepitting of any kind at all. The NS I use is good stuff with high contentNickel with almost all the rest being copper. The NS I'm using is from themarine industry so I wouldn't expect any undesired inclusions in the alloy. Tony solution. The surface of the ferrule wasn't smooth any more, it kind ofleft an antique look on it with a few black spots. Does anybody knowthe reason for that? What is my mistake? Maybe Tony Young can help meout, since I ordered the ferrules from him (is it a (ferrule-)materialproblem?) Need your help Ralf from Germany /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. " - Tom Clancy /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Nov 10 23:39:21 2000 eAB5dJG18174 Subject: Re: Glue If it would only stay at 78f it'd be great, unfortunately it's just thestart of Spring and in a month or so it'll be 110f or so.The iced water idea is one I've used during lamination jobs. I even onceresorted to mixing the glue with iced water after getting it started withroom temp water.Actually after looking at the section I did yesterday I rather like theoutcome. It's the right colour and seems pretty stiff compared with epoxy As far as having to drink Fosters all the time if you lived here don't youbelieve it. The only place I ever see that horse p$$$ being drunk isOUTSIDE of Australia. We keep the good stuff for local consumption :-) At 07:29 PM 11/10/00 +0000, paul.blakley wrote:Tony,78F in Oz , how I wish my great great great......grandfather had stolena loaf of bread.....I too could be living in Oz......nah I would have todrink Fosters all the time.....I digress !Until quite recently I too used to bind by hand and even in our cold,wet climate cascomite sets quickly.The method I use to slow down thesetting time is to mix the cascomite to the consistency of 'singlecream'and put the mixing receptacle in a bowl of iced water.Even withthis method I still use one mix per section i.e one mix for say a topsection and another mix for a butt section.With reference to better glues being available I would agree totally.ButCascomite is readilly available from almost any ironmongers/DIY storeand it is also available in small quantities at modest cost.Iam now going for a proper beer........Regards.......Paul Tony Young wrote: I had to make a short section today to use a scarfed section of a tiprepair and decided to use Cascomite because I have some and thought itwould be interesting to actually use it and see how it goes.Because you mix it with water giving an exact pot life is tricky becausethe thicker it is the shorter the life but I mix it so it's got theconsistency of un cut varnish.Today it was 78 f at the time I used it and the pot life was about 35mins.One thing I've noticed in the past and as it seems especially so during thebinding stage is it tends to set up faster if it gets worked, like if youmix it continuously and also during the binding stage. I found it becomesalmost unworkably tacky very quickly as I was binding the section byhand.Anyhow, as has been said by Pail it does work and if you're the type wholikes to get a rod finished as soon as possible it may be a very goodchoice but I would suggest there are better glues to use because theyallowa longer working time. Tony At 07:27 PM 11/9/00 +0000, paul.blakley wrote:Cascomite was THE GLUE used by the old UK firms such asHardy,Allcocksetc etc.....it is a proven rod building adhesive !I use it on my blond rods with resorcinol on my flamed.Most of the UKrod builders now use Aerolite 308 including for example Partridge ofRedditch.Cascomite has three problem areas to note;1) It has a short pot life as Tony pointed out.You therefore have towork fast and I would recommend one mix per rod section./*********** Snip ****************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. "- Tom Clancy /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. " - Tom Clancy /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Nov 10 23:47:45 2000 eAB5lhG18366 +0800 Subject: WARNING NOT rod making but VIRUS ALERT - W32/Navidad@M People of the list.I hope this doesn't annoy anybody but these types of virus have a way offinding their way onto this and other lists so I thought I'd let you all knowabout it.Below is a McAfee alert. I AM NOT pushing McAfee or anybody else, they justhappened to be the mob that sent me the alert and I thought it best to sendtheentire message so you also have the means of ridding your system of thevirusif you get it. This is an interesting one. Tony VIRUS ALERT - W32/Navidad@M Dear McAfee.com Dispatch Subscriber: W32/Navidad@M is an Internet worm that spreads using the Windows emailprogramOutlook. McAfee AVERT has given it a risk assessment of MEDIUM-ONWATCH, dueto a significant increase in infection levels worldwide. The email can come from addresses that you will recognize. Attached is afilenamed NAVIDAD.EXE and when it is run, it displays a dialog box entitled,"Error" which reads "UI". A blue eye icon then appears in the system traynext to the clock in the lower right corner of the screen, and a copy of theworm is saved to the file "winsvrc.vxd" in the WINDOWS SYSTEM directory. If your PC becomes infected with the W32/Navidad@M worm, allsubsequentemailsaddressed to you will be responded to automatically with an email fromyouraddress with the W32/Navidad@M worm as an attachment. Click herefordetection and removal instructions. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. " - Tom Clancy /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Nov 11 00:01:41 2000 eAB61dG19018 Subject: Re: Glue I would say yes but as Resorcinol isn't mixed with water the liquid portionof the mix is known whereas Cascomite is mixed with water. I know there isan ideal liquid volume: powder ratio but I forgot it years ago and havebeen mixing it so it looks right ever since which doesn't seem to be aproblem for what I've been using it for. You'd really have to mix it to the 1/2 - 2/3rds the pot life of Resorcinol.The thing is it has an interesting characteristic in that once it begins"clotting" it's more or less come to the end of it's pot life and this"clotting" happens a bit before it's obviously too far gone and stiff touse. The "clotting" is obvious and you can't mistake it.I suspect it's because not enough moisture is able to penetrate the fibersof the wood to work properly. If you use it out of the pot beyond thispoint I've found on some woods the glue cures in a "plate" between thelaminations and doesn't really bond.It's very good GP glue so if you ever see it get some and try it. Tony At 09:12 PM 11/10/00 -0800, timothy troester wrote:tony, has it a shorter pot life than resorcinol? timothy --- Tony Young wrote:Ian,if the Cascomite you mean is made by Borden of theUK and is a white powderyou ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.http://shopping.yahoo.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. " - Tom Clancy /*************************************************************************/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Nov 11 08:07:51 2000 eABE7oG21981 Sat, 11 Nov 2000 06:07:46 -0800 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Crushed tip tops Oh yes, Chris, that's probably the problem. I've had it too,especially when fishing 9x tippet and size 32 flies. But you'reright, it only seems to happen with big fish. Those under 10 poundsare never a problem. Seriously, though, I'm not completely sure the fellow did anythingwrong, or even anything dumb. He knows bamboo rods well enough to becompetent. Someone suggested that the tip tops could take a jolt fromthe reel seat while in the bag. I think that's a possibility. Thenagain, this may remain a mystery. Harry PS- Chris, the first liar never has a chance. :-) If this were a BSlist instead of a rodmaking list, I'd REALLY tell you guys a fishstory. Chris Bogart wrote: Harry I have the same problem when I hook brown trout over36" and they just straighten out all the guides if I have the dragset too tight on the reel. How's that for a theory? Chris PS. sounds like they were stepped on or tampered with. On Fri, 10 Nov 2000 19:36:53 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,One of my rods came back to me for repairs today with anew (to me) problem. Both tip tops have been crushed sothat no longer is there apear shape or an "O" at the end.Now it's more like a barely hollow slit. Looks like yousqueezed the rings with a pair of pliers, directly in linewith the casting plane. I guess they could have beenstepped on.No problem to repair them by replacing with newtiptops. But does anyone have any idea how this could havehappened? I'd like to prevent it without actually accusingthe guy of stepping on the rod Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from Dennishigham@cs.com Sat Nov 11 08:55:01 2000 eABEt0G23969 Subject: Heat Curing Epon Gentlemen-I've always let Epon cure at room temp for 3-5 days. I've got two rods to glue up tomorrow and thought I'd try heat curing the Epon. So..a quick survey.. what temp and for how long do you cure your Epon?? Thanks Dennis from dnorl@uswest.net Sat Nov 11 09:11:22 2000 eABFBMG24181 0000 (63.228.7.118) Subject: Re: Crushed tip tops Harry,We are Not talking honest wear here!Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Crushed tip tops Accuse him Harry. Abuse is abuse!Ralph from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Nov 11 09:34:56 2000 eABFYuG24486 Sat, 11 Nov 2000 09:38:34 -0600 Subject: Re: Heat Curing Epon Dennis,I heat set Epon, four hours at 180*.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Dennishigham@cs.com wrote: Gentlemen-I've always let Epon cure at room temp for 3-5 days. I've got two rods toglue up tomorrow and thought I'd try heat curing the Epon. So..a quicksurvey.. what temp and for how long do you cure your Epon?? Thanks Dennis from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Nov 11 11:12:59 2000 eABHCxG25318 Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:12:57 -0600 Subject: Re: Crushed tip tops Geez, I can't imagine ANYONE treating a fine cane rod so shabbily ! Sort ofhow old fiber glass rods were treated, when those first solid glass rodswere tho't to be indestructible ! I couldn't help but ask, "What happened" ? However, I'd sure charge him thecost, as few enjoy or respect those things that are "free" ! Harry, if any customer returned one of my engines, that had been treatedlike that, he'd sure pay for it ! GMA from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Sat Nov 11 11:29:15 2000 eABHTEG25639 with Novell_GroupWise; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 09:31:33 -0800 Subject: RE: Crushed TipTops eABHTFG25640 Hi Harry, As you said it's an easy fix, but I'm mostly just curious. Did the customeroffer any explanation? Did he find them in the tube in that condition? Insideof a bag and tube it's hard to imagine the reelseat could have crushed notonly one, but both tiptops. It would take quite a lot of pressure to do that. As others have said, maybe stepped on, but would have to be a hard shoe, ahard floor, and someone who apparently couldn't stop their momentum whenthey felt the obstruction under their foot. Maybe a child with pliers. That isentirely possible. Does he have any little ones? Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from TBOWDEN@halcyon.com Sat Nov 11 12:27:16 2000 eABIRFG26410 Subject: Re: Crushed tip tops Seems to me that all you can do is make sure you use to best, stongesttip- tops available. If he breaks these, there isn't a whole lot you could do. If you use cheapies then there's an opportunity for improvement. As abeginner/amatuer who only builds rods for myself, I sometimes usecomponents salvaged off old rods. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn'thold up! from jkcerise@rof.net Sat Nov 11 13:00:59 2000 eABJ0wG26908 Subject: US politics aside!! As was said nicely by Sue on another list; Happy Vet's Day to all of you out there that have been in the military. I'm proud of you, and appreciate what you did. Not said near often enough!!!! To all US Military Veterans: Thanks to your actions, dedication, bravery, and plain old guts, I can gofishing, or not, today. I thank you for my having that choice. A hell ofa lot of people in this world have no choice.We whine about the election (me included!) but I'm grateful that it is notsome ruthless bastard's illigitemate son who WILL, WITH NO CHOICE, be mycountry's next leader. United States Veterans paid for this blessing, andmany are still paying, every day, every minute, every heartbeat. WE OWE YOU OUR GRATITUDE!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!! John from rkrees@mcn.net Sat Nov 11 13:04:24 2000 eABJ4NG27077 Subject: crushed tip tops This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C04BD7.9E4137E0 I have seen this before and the explanation as to how it happened is =that the gentleman was trying to put the cap on the rod tube. That sack =apparently was not all the way in the tube and the rod tip was crushed = Ron ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C04BD7.9E4137E0 I have seen this before and the explanation as to how it happened is = gentleman was trying to put the cap on the rod tube. That sack = not all the way in the tube and the rod tip was crushed by human force = the cap and the wall of the tube. This was not noticed until the next = tube was opened. Ron ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C04BD7.9E4137E0-- from bob@downandacross.com Sat Nov 11 13:37:55 2000 eABJbsG27571 Subject: Re: US politics aside!! Well said Sue and John ( although the son thing threw me.). And to all the WW2 vets, sorry fiberglass was there when you came back. LOL. Happy Veterans day.Bob from briansr@point-net.com Sat Nov 11 14:23:26 2000 eABKNQG28245 Subject: Revocation NOTICE OF REVOCATON To the citizens of the United States of America, In the light of your failure to elect anybody as President of the USAand thus to govern yourselves and, by extension, the freeworld, wehereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effectivetoday. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchial dutiesover all states, commonwealths and other territories including NewJersey. To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, please complywith the following acts: 1. Look up "revocation" in the now official Oxford Dictionary ($75).Start spelling English words correctly. 2. Learn at least the first 4 lines of "God Save The Queen" 3. Start referring to "soccer" as football 4. Declare war on Quebec and France 5. Arrest Mel Gibson for treason 6. Close down the NFL. Learn to play rugby 7. Enjoy warm flat beer and steak and kidney pudding. Train waitressesto be more aggressive with customers and not to tell you their namesbefore you eat. 8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday, this has been replaced withNovember 5th 9. All members of this British Crown Dependency will be required to take6 weeks annual vacation and observe statutory tea breaks. 10.Driving on the left is now compulsory - recall all cars to effect thechange immediately. 11.Report to our Consulate General in NY - M Wragg - for your newpassport and job allocation. 12. Have Meg Ryan report to the Prince Andrews Bedchamber. 13. Add the Royal insignia to the top of the Washington Monument - andthe Queen's Christmas speeches to the Lincoln Memorial. 14. Stop referring to the World Series of Baseball and instead call itthe National Series of USA, Cuba and Japan. 15. Tax collectors from Her Majesty's Government will be with youshortly to ensure the acquisiton of all revenues due (backdated to1776). Thank you for your cooperation and have a nice day! from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Nov 11 15:39:58 2000 eABLdwG29670 0000 Organization: ProLog Subject: Presidential Election (The End Of The End) Hi List, I think I was the one that started this madness on Tuesdaymorning and for that I must apoligize. Just thought I would add a touchof humor (albeit dry) to the list. I AM SORRY!I just got back from Lang's Fishing Tackle Auction in Mass. A guy waspeddling around a 7' 3 piece Payne (first I have ever seen). He wantedto much for my taste ($3600) but it was a sweet rod. When I left onFriday I almost brought along my micrometer but thought "what do I needthat for?". Well I found out! Does anyone out there have that taper?Also I picked up a DT silk line that needs refinishing. Can someonebriefly insruct me on refinihing or send me Reed Curry's site address?Thanks, Marty from dnorl@uswest.net Sat Nov 11 15:59:57 2000 eABLxuG00130 0000 (63.228.5.221) Subject: waara vee block This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C04BFA.75139A20 Received a set of 45 and 60 degree vee blocks from John Long today and =did some experiments checking old splines with both the vee block and a =dial caliper. Quite a difference. I can definitely see my accuracy =improving with this simple tool.Dave ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C04BFA.75139A20 Received a set of 45 and 60degree = from John Long today and did some experiments checking old splines with = vee block and a dial caliper. Quite a difference. I can definitely see = accuracy improving with this simple tool.Dave ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C04BFA.75139A20-- from briansr@point-net.com Sat Nov 11 20:53:12 2000 eAC2rBG03592 Subject: :-0 To the kind folks of RM.RE: the revocation post.It WAS tongue in cheek, which I had hoped that someone with the grasp ofthings to wittle down a pieces of grass and make magically make somethingofgrace and beauty would have figured out.So let's get back to rodmaking OH KAY ?????Cheers Brian from tcwege@worldnet.att.net Sat Nov 11 21:16:32 2000 eAC3GVG03932 +0000 Subject: Parts to build a binder Hello List,I'm working on building a binder and seem to remember a while back someoneposting info on where to get pulleys. I tried the archives but could notfind the info. So, how about it, does anyone out there know?Thanx,Tilo from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sat Nov 11 23:07:30 2000 eAC57UG05281 VAA04227; Subject: Re: Parts to build a binder The pulleys I used were the replacement rollers for a sliding glass door.available at your local home center for about $3.00 Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Parts to build a binder Hello List,I'm working on building a binder and seem to remember a while backsomeoneposting info on where to get pulleys. I tried the archives but could notfind the info. So, how about it, does anyone out there know?Thanx,Tilo from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Nov 12 00:27:36 2000 eAC6RXG06236 Subject: Presidential Election OR Who shot JR? Guys, I know I shouldn't write this but I've gota say not only is theoutcome of the election in the US as riveting as the old Dallas Who shot JRcliffhanger but it's taking almost as long to find the answer :-) I must ask this though. Can anybody truly with a clear heart tell thedifference in how a decesion is made between a monarch ruling by the divineright given by a mob of bishops and a leader chosen by the divine right ofa court? I hope for the good of all the decision isn't made in a cloisteredroom. Tony (the NOT) constitunional lawer./*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. " - Tom Clancy /*************************************************************************/ from iank@ts.co.nz Sun Nov 12 03:06:22 2000 eAC96IG07543 2000 22:06:23 +1300 Subject: ferrules on ebay I was doing my weekly "troll" on ebay and noticed an auction of someferrules. These are some Montague ferrules in a box. The informationmentioned some silks also but I could not see any in the picture. They mentioned 52 items in the box and there looks to be some tiptops andparts of ferrules. The box itself is quite interesting from a collectorspoint of view. I did not recognise any of the names of bidders ( maybe Bob?) so thought Ishould bring it to the attention of those here who do restorations. The ebaynumber is 491532050 No commercial interest etc... Ian K from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Nov 12 03:48:07 2000 eAC9m4G08002 eAC9lpx33872; Subject: Re: Crushed tip tops Organization: vet Harry That will be a test of diplomacy worthy of a Solomon. But I guess you, atleast, have passed Solomon 101. Good luck. Did you ever give any further thought to my post to you on the "Ring ofFire" topic, when I suggested that the metallic "ring" which seemed to becausing so much difficulty, might well be un-necesary and could be replaced All the best Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Crushed tip tops Friends,One of my rods came back to me for repairs today with anew (to me) problem. Both tip tops have been crushed sothat no longer is there apear shape or an "O" at the end.Now it's more like a barely hollow slit. Looks like yousqueezed the rings with a pair of pliers, directly in linewith the casting plane. I guess they could have beenstepped on.No problem to repair them by replacing with newtiptops. But does anyone have any idea how this could havehappened? I'd like to prevent it without actually accusingthe guy of stepping on the rod Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boydhttp://HarryBoydbamboorods.eboard.com/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Nov 12 04:09:58 2000 eACA9uG08277 eACA9nx35366; Subject: Re: Bamboo Ferrule Organization: vet Hello, Bob Have got the 7/32 hole bored up the middle of the butt piece of cane, and amready to finish tapering the proximal end to attach to the butt. So far,it's looking pretty good. I am a tad worried about the durability of this ferrule - to the extent thatI have, for the first time in 13 rods, made a rod with only one tip.Actually, I had enough cane left over that matched to make one butt and onetip, so thought this would be a good trial. Have made the PHY"Perfectionist" from the taper given in Jack Howell's book; it's hard toknow with PHY - if you have 10 rods, you seem to have to choose betweenabout 30 tapers. In June '99, Chris Wohlford wrote a piece in the Planing Form about the useof a product called Pentacryl as an impregnating agent in reel seat fillerpreparation, and I wondered if you had thought about the use of a productlike this to sort of "toughen" the bamboo prior to coating it with epoxyand using it as a ferrule. I thought perhaps you could immerse the ferrule piece totally and dip themale section, for a couple of days prior to final fitting. Any thoughts? All the best Peter ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo Ferrule Many at the SRG that cast the Bamboo Ferruled rod wanted to know how tomakeit. I said I would put together a html page on how I built it, thenremembered looked up one that I did a while back, before the rod wasfinished. Here is the url for it...http://members.clnk.com/caneman/ferrule.htmAs always, if anyone has questions about it, just email or call. Later,Bob from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Nov 12 04:19:18 2000 eACAJEG08494 eACAJ2x35928; Subject: Re: Glue Organization: vet Paul So you can get Boags or James Squires over there, can you? That's "proper"beer! Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Glue Tony,78F in Oz , how I wish my great great great......grandfather had stolena loaf of bread.....I too could be living in Oz......nah I would have todrink Fosters all the time.....I digress !Until quite recently I too used to bind by hand and even in our cold,wet climate cascomite sets quickly.The method I use to slow down thesetting time is to mix the cascomite to the consistency of 'singlecream'and put the mixing receptacle in a bowl of iced water.Even withthis method I still use one mix per section i.e one mix for say a topsection and another mix for a butt section.With reference to better glues being available I would agree totally.ButCascomite is readilly available from almost any ironmongers/DIY storeand it is also available in small quantities at modest cost.Iam now going for a proper beer........Regards.......Paul Tony Young wrote: I had to make a short section today to use a scarfed section of a tiprepair and decided to use Cascomite because I have some and thought itwould be interesting to actually use it and see how it goes.Because you mix it with water giving an exact pot life is tricky becausethe thicker it is the shorter the life but I mix it so it's got theconsistency of un cut varnish.Today it was 78 f at the time I used it and the pot life was about35mins.One thing I've noticed in the past and as it seems especially so duringthebinding stage is it tends to set up faster if it gets worked, like ifyoumix it continuously and also during the binding stage. I found itbecomesalmost unworkably tacky very quickly as I was binding the section byhand.Anyhow, as has been said by Pail it does work and if you're the type wholikes to get a rod finished as soon as possible it may be a very goodchoice but I would suggest there are better glues to use because theyallowa longer working time. Tony At 07:27 PM 11/9/00 +0000, paul.blakley wrote:Cascomite was THE GLUE used by the old UK firms such asHardy,Allcocksetc etc.....it is a proven rod building adhesive !I use it on my blond rods with resorcinol on my flamed.Most of the UKrod builders now use Aerolite 308 including for example Partridge ofRedditch.Cascomite has three problem areas to note;1) It has a short pot life as Tony pointed out.You therefore have towork fast and I would recommend one mix per rod section./*********** Snip ****************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense."- Tom Clancy /*************************************************************************/ from bassmeister_2000@yahoo.com Sun Nov 12 06:10:49 2000 eACCAmG09159 2000 04:10:46 PST Subject: Re: Crushed tip tops It's also interesting that two guides on the mid needreplacing. And the agate stripper guide came back to me in five pieces. One guide is broken off clean as a whistle. Theother pulled loose from color preserved threads. All on a rodI delivered in late August or early September. Guess I'll spend a few hours re-wrapping, and pay for another guide. And one day this guy will recommend my rods and my YIKES! Harry, maybe you should put the guides and tip top onthe aluminum tube instead of the rod! This sounds like rod abuse- a quiet, lurking horror that doesn't get much press in the US.Here at my house I have established a half-way house. A placewhere your clients' rod can come and stay and go gently intothose golden years. Just send it to me! ;-)Good luck,Joe =====Joe MulveyStoneham, MAhttp://people.ne.mediaone.net/mgag1/index.htmhttp://www.mulvey4.eboard.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays!http://calendar.yahoo.com/ from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Sun Nov 12 06:34:41 2000 eACCYfG09446 Subject: Re: Presidential Election OR Who shot JR? eACCYfG09447 Dear Mr. Young, There is a HUGE difference!!! The "divine" right of monarchs is derivedthrough fertility- usually of cousins procreating with cousins. Sounds likeover dressed "trailer trash" to me. Judges, on the other hand are not empowered through "divine" right. Unlessyou mean through the divine right given by the people. Judges in the USA areeither given office through a direct vote or are appointed (not anointed!) bythose in executive office who were elected by citizens.The judgment in this case will be based on rule of law and not on rule ofsperm and egg! John Kenealy ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Presidential Election OR Who shot JR? Guys, I know I shouldn't write this but I've gota say not only is theoutcome of the election in the US as riveting as the old Dallas Who shot JRcliffhanger but it's taking almost as long to find the answer :-) I must ask this though. Can anybody truly with a clear heart tell thedifference in how a decesion is made between a monarch ruling by thedivineright given by a mob of bishops and a leader chosen by the divine right ofa court? I hope for the good of all the decision isn't made in a cloisteredroom. Tony (the NOT) constitunional lawer. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. " - Tom Clancy /*************************************************************************/ from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 12 07:24:15 2000 eACDOEG09812 +0000 Subject: Edwards Quad #53 Hello All, I had the opportunity to cast and measure an Edwards 8'-6", 3 piece, 6wt. yesterday. It is marked #53 - 6510. The rod flexed all the way into the handle. The nodes were in a randompattern. The varnish was quite heavy (I deducted .005). The rod has abakelite reel seat and square bakelite winding check. Garnet wrapstipped in black (appear to be 8-10 tip wraps). The reel seat plug wasloose so I took it out for a look, the cane only came half way down thereel seat. The biggest difference that I saw in any measurement was fivethousandths. It was hard to judge the casting of the rod. The reel I had on it didnot balance the rod well and it was front heavy (hard to imagine what itwould take to balance it). The rod was slower than I am used to butseemed to cast 40' of line with ease. I didn't try to push it too far asit is in a collection and not for sale. The end of the cork was squaredand I found the handle a little small, after ten minutes of casting myhand started to cramp. Point Dimension0 .0705 .09610 .11215 .13020 .14225 .15530 .16635 .17640 .19245 .19450 .20855 .206 (correct meas.)60 .22465 .22670 .28075 .29080 .32685 .32890 .35692 .375 (estimate) I measured the flat spot in the middle of the rod several times. Thedifference in 50 & 55 might be varnish, but this flat area is definitelyintentional. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO PS Does anyone have the Queen of Waters taper? If not there is one thereI can measure. from caneman@clnk.com Sun Nov 12 08:25:34 2000 eACEPYG10713 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Crushed tip tops Geez, Harry. I don't really know if I'd WANT this guy recommending me toanyone! You should warranty workmanship and materials, but that doesn'tstretch to include neglect and ignorance. Later,Bob It's also interesting that two guides on the mid needreplacing. And the agate stripper guide came back to me infive pieces. One guide is broken off clean as a whistle. Theother pulled loose from color preserved threads. All on a rodI delivered in late August or early September. Guess I'llspend a few hours re-wrapping, and pay for another guide.And one day this guy will recommend my rods and my from Canerods@aol.com Sun Nov 12 09:26:58 2000 eACFQvG11254 Subject: Re: ferrules on ebay In a message dated 11/12/00 1:07:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,iank@ts.co.nz writes: Ian, Look at the sizes. They appear to be 22/64ths and other large sizes. Don B. from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Nov 12 09:31:56 2000 eACFVtG11455 Subject: Re: Presidential Election OR Who shot JR? What this election shows, is not the gun happy U.S., but the only civil way in our history ! GMA from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Nov 12 10:07:57 2000 eACG7sG11823 Subject: Re: Crushed tip tops All this reminds me of when I was in school working part time for a gunsmith. A guy brought back a big bore range jacket with a mangled zipper. Heswore he bought it that way and demanded I return it. I told him I'd sendit to the supplier for repair or replacement and wrote out the repairdocket and handed a copy to the guy. I didn't work there for a few daysthankfuly because the boss told me the guy came back wanting to punch meinthe nose. The boss told me that if I wanted to tell the supplier the zipperlooked as if it's been "Stonkered by a house brick after purchese" I reallyshouldn't give the customer a copy of the repair slip. :-) Tony At 08:18 AM 11/12/00 -0600, you wrote:Geez, Harry. I don't really know if I'd WANT this guy recommending me toanyone! You should warranty workmanship and materials, but that doesn'tstretch to include neglect and ignorance. Later,Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. " - Tom Clancy /*************************************************************************/ from Dennishigham@cs.com Sun Nov 12 10:59:41 2000 eACGxfG12364 Subject: Re: Presidential Election (The End Of The End) Marty-Wish I had the taper. The rod was an old one. I had to go back to a 1931 Payne catalog to find a 7',3 piece. The later catalogs I have didn't list it. The model # is 196, a 3 piece 7', 2 7/8-3 1/8 oz rod. No line weight given. It sold for 50.00 in 1931.Try overmywaders.com for Reed's site. Dennis from idinsy@global.co.za Sun Nov 12 13:27:20 2000 eACJRJG14121 sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 12 Nov 2000 21:27:09 +0200 (SAT) Subject: Glue This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_zom/pPg3WOQj4nY52Z9CYw) Thank you to all who responded to my glue problem. Tony you were of =great help to me. I glued up my first rod today. The working time with =Cascamite is very short but managed to get it all done as it started to =dry.I now would like to know what would the best finishing material =be?.(varnish). There will be more questions as I come accross new =problems. Thanks once againRegardsIan GornallSouth Africa --Boundary_(ID_zom/pPg3WOQj4nY52Z9CYw) Hi